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I've found a number of weapon article that I really think need to be renamed, and rather than proposing moves on each individual page which would require too much effort, we'll discuss it here. Here are the ones I think need to be moved:
Per naming conventions as the qualifiers at the end are unnecessary. I don't think we need to move the machine gun articles like M1919 Browning machine gun or M1941 Johnson machine gun because they are commonly reffered to by those names ("BMG", "BAR" etc).-- Patton t/ c 21:35, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
This is coming a little late, but did anyone look at
Wikipedia:WEAPON#Naming_conventions? Those are the Military History Project's guidelines on naming military weapons, and it specifically calls for the type designators, like submachine gun, rifle, and the like.--
LWF (
talk) 20:52, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
Some I polished more than others, but I thought it best to transfer quick and early, put up appropriate templates, and let them develop as needed. Mainly GoogleTranslated, and did some touch-up on various articles, though others still legible but rough. Some neat stuff I'd never have thought to create on my own:
EDIT: Also went through the Spanish and Portuguese wikis. Not much interesting in the Spanish, but several good articles in the Portuguese that I've transfered over. NOTE: the pt.wiki infobox doesn't cross over, if someone could neaten up the infoboxes that'd be awesome.
MatthewVanitas ( talk) 01:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I'm currently working on M249 SAW and I need reliable sources detailing gun ownership laws in the US and whether it's legal to own a SAW.-- Patton 123 17:13, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
You are essentially correct about getting a CLEO to sign the forms. As I remember it, you also need to submit a set of fingerprints with the application. I would also check the weapon against the NFA registry to make sure it is properly recorded before buying it. I think you will find owning an M249 SAW legally will be highly problematic unless you are a Class 3 dealer. I'm almost certain none were produced for civilian sale prior to 1986 so any M249 you will run into will be in the possession of military, law enforcement or a Class 3 dealer. If the dealer has it, then most likely it will be a post-86 dealer sample which means no one other than a federally licensed, Class 3 dealer can have it. By the way, if you are interested in becoming a Class 3 dealer, I would suggest you take a look at Small Arms Review and Jane's International Defense Review to see what you are getting yourself into. It will be expensive, trust me. I would also suggest you live in a state with few gun restrictions (i.e. Nevada) before you even think about it. By the way, make sure you are going to run it as a legitimate, for-profit enterprise. BATFE takes a very dim view of applicants getting a license just to enhance a collection. If you want a quick primer on Title 2 weapons law, try to find a copy of Dan Shea's Machine Gun Dealer's Bible.
Good luck! Wmoberndorf ( talk) 01:32, 26 February 2009 (UTC) User:Wmoberndorf February 21, 2009
Given that the C96 is one of the most famous and influential handguns of all time, I think it deserves a better and more thorough article than the currently standing one. I've begun a re-write (with the addition of references) to try and expand it and get the article up to FA class; I'm open to suggestions, ideas, or assistance on how we can improve the article! Commander Zulu ( talk) 05:39, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
I've found a bunch of pages that seriously need moving:
They're a complete mess. We have a number of optiosn here:
I propose moving the navy one to "Mk 12" and either "mod 0" or somethign else. Ideas?-- Patton t/ c 22:00, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.
All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. — Delievered by §hepBot ( Disable) on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 05:25, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
On the infobox in this article are two country names. Why are flag icons needed here? They don't add anything. How is United States better than United States? It's the same as writing Turtle, Plane and Rock. We might as well put an icon beside every noun on Wikipedia if we're doing this.-- Patton t/ c 20:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
the waltherppk can be equipted with multiple attathments such as
The categories "Revolver" and "Semi-automatic pistol" have become unmanageably large. I started to reorganize them into "X by brand/manufacturer" and "X by country" in order to better organize them. Since a lot of pistol are used for a variety of things (police, military, civilian) it made most sense to define them by maker and/or country of origin. One member expressed concern about my making changes without consulting the group, so I'm here to ask: do folks agree that "Semi-automatic pistols" and "Revolver" categories should be broken down into country/brand/other categories, and that basically no individual model should be listed on the main category page unless it simply cannot be defined by country or brand? Having 200-300 models listed within just the "Semi-automatic pistol" category is unmanageable. I'd imagine the Rifle sub-cats might have similar problems. What say you? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 06:44, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
The category [Category:U.S. Fire Arms Mfg. Co.] lists a number of Wiki articles on firearms made by the US Fire Arms Manufacturing Co, and I'm really not sure they're necessary, as they all appear to be versions of the Colt Single Action Army and not really that different from one another in any major respect. The articles are properly sourced and referenced, but there's very faint tinge of fanboyism or advertising about them and I'm just not entirely convinced that they couldn't be better condensed into a single article- U.S. Fire Arms Manufacturing Co. revolvers, for example. Any thoughts? Commander Zulu ( talk) 02:01, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
AK-47 is by far the most viewed article in our scope, with well over 250,000 views last month alone. The only other article that even comes close is M16 rifle with just under 200,000 views last month. I'd like to propose a collaboration to get this article to featured status. We can each take a section and work on that, then put them all together and write the lede. Here's the structure I'd like to use:
The development, design details and variants section will be pretty sraightforward. The operational history section will be abolsutly huge, so I suggest we split content from it into a much sub article ("Operational history of the AK-47") and just give a summary in the main article. Even if we only give a single sentence per country and war this has been used with it's is going to be gargauntuan. Civilian use will be fairly straightforward, but cultural impact will probably be very hard to source. We'll have to include stuff like the flag of mozambique etc.
So what sections would you guys like to do if you think this is a good idea? I'll do any. Btw the pageview counter for Wikipedia is here, but it doesn't count redirects so you have to type in each redirect and add it up maunally yourself.-- Patton t/ c 20:00, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Here's my proposal for weapons mainly used by militaries rather than civilians Obviously it should only be a rough guide subject ot change on a case-by-case basis
Patton t/ c 18:03, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I'd say we already have people looking out for the commando infiltrators and for soldiering teenagers.
Now on the point of US-Centric, in all honesty, yes it would focus on the US as the US is one of the biggest markets for firearms, if not the biggest, and a section that is mostly about the US is not a bad thing, as long as other relevant uses are covered. One thing I really want to avoid is removing applicable information because we aren't covering other countries, when there isn't anything to cover about other countries. I don't want equality in coverage, I want verifiability, and completeness.-- LWF ( talk) 06:46, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
I suggest we should write a single article about what guns are allowed where and why, an link to it. Otherwise we'd have to mention practically every single country that exists and whether it's legal to own whatever weapon the article is about there (That includes afghanistan). We can then leave out a legality/civilian ownership section and simply link to the article someplace else.-- Patton t/ c 21:45, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
To difficult, especially considering some laws are subject to interpretation, and that could possibly run into issues with Wikipedia not providing legal advice. In addition, it would have to have a disclaimer due to changing laws, and Wikipedia has a policy against disclaimers in articles. I think it's WP:NDA.-- LWF ( talk) 22:13, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
I've been noticing with rifles like the M14 that it's said they use "full-power rounds". I think this is a misnomer, it seems to imply other, lower powered, rounds aren't powered at their full capacity. Instead, I think what is meant is the term "high-powered". I've been correcting this in articles and it would be helpful if I wasn't the only one. -- Philip Laurence ( talk) 23:56, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Can the article on the Dragunov Tiger be merged into the article on the Dragunov SVD? The Tiger is really a civilian version of the SVD rifle - the action and basic design of the rifle is almost identical. Kartano ( talk) 03:11, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
There's an AfD for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/USFA Custer Battlefield Gun currently ongoing and it's generated some discussion about whether or not reproductions of guns go in the main article (as with WP:GUNS#Variants), or whether there are some guns- like the Colt Single Action Army and the M1911 pistol that have spawned so many reproductions, knock-offs, and clones that a separate article dealing with those reproduction/clone guns is warranted. Any thoughts on the subject? Commander Zulu ( talk) 01:00, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi, all. I'm building up a list of references for the infamous M10 series of rifles from AIA. These are based heavily on the No. 4 action. Would it be worth adding information about these rifles to the article on the Lee-Enfield rifle? These rifles are slowly gaining popularity in Australia - as a Range Officer I now see several of them in use. Any comments or feedback on this idea? Kartano ( talk) 02:00, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
I've just added images and infoboxs to these articles:
Does anyone know any websites that display company information such as revenue or income? Because not all the fields have been filled. Thanks User:Tsange 16:56, 05 March 2009 (GMT)
I've put merge tags on two variants of the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge. Per 'variants' section, these should fall under the main article. Though each variant may deserve a paragraph or even two as is the case with the SS109, I think that a separate article is redundant and confusing. One does not, for instance, have a separate article for the 200gr loading of the .45ACP. Please go to the talk page there and comment. Thanks. -- Nukes4Tots ( talk) 17:00, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Think the hard core pornography line should be deleted (unless it's true of course).
Checked the offical site http://www.sportsmansassociation.co.uk/ that same text is there apart from the part about pornography I also found it was done by 86.129.248.15 IP address. I will remove it and try to build the page. Tsange ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC).
Double-checked this against the WP:GUNS variant policy, but I'd argue that the harpoon guns based on the surplus Jarmann rifles are rather unique, differ notably from the original intent of the gun (and from guns at all), and should probably be their own article in Category:Whaling, with links between the two. Anyone object to my splitting the harpoon-gun info into its own article? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 04:48, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Could the CQBR article be merged with another such as the AR15 or M16? This seems to be about a modification to an existing rifle. Does it however merit a seperate article, in a similar way to the Pederson Device? Kartano ( talk) 03:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
A certain user:Theserialcomma thinks it should be defined as a weapon. The term "weapon" implies a use that is not implicit in the tool. In reality, very few weapons are exclusively weapons. The vast majority of firearms are not used as weapons. They are used as tools for punching holes in paper targets, knocking over steel plates, or just making noise. The term weapon limits the definition of a firearm to only one of its many uses, that of a weapon. Beyond that, the term "weapon" has negative connotations and may be considered POV and pejorative. Firearms are tools. Their use as a weapon involves the choice of the owner, not the nature of the firearm. I've made these points before and the consensus was to keep it as a tool. However, the particular user who is warring with me over this one also thought that five references were not enough to validate that a compensator reduced percieved recoil. Could I get some input on the article Firearm from the WP:Firearms community? Thanks. -- Nukes4Tots ( talk) 16:54, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
About half-way down the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence page there is a boxed list called "gun interest groups in the US" - does it exist as a nav box or can it be turned into one? -- Cameron Scott ( talk) 21:28, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
A user is trying to add an obscure reference to "three-oh-three" in a movie he watched to the article, Lee Enfield. Could we have a few knowledgeable users attand that discussion. For the record, he is also edit warring to include "Puke state" as an altrenate name for the state of Missouri. Thanks for the help. -- Nukes4Tots ( talk) 16:00, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Another forum I follow had some relatively knowledgeable folks come across Mondragón rifle, and several said that there appear to be all kinds of falsehoods inserted into the article. The Mondragon has plenty of rumour and myth attached to it, but apparently the claim that Germans made sniper rifles from them, and similar claims in the article, are completely lacking in accuracy. Does anyone have any resources available to tackle this issue? Any reputable books against which these claims can be fact-checked? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 19:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
There is a proposal here to move Colt CMG-1 machine gun to CMG-1. Thanks!-- Patton t/ c 14:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I was in the process of trying to remember what type of 9mm pistol I shot in the Navy when I typed "9mm pistol" in the search box. Oddly enough, there is no article with that name. Not even a redirect. Any suggestions on what it should redirect to? It seems like a reasonable search item.-- Rockfang ( talk) 03:29, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm a regular poster on www.thehighroad.org (a major firearms forum with 87,000 members), and have been trying to drum up some support for WP:GUNS. If any members here are also THR members, and want to offer any insight as to why this project is important to the firearms community, suggest how folks can help out, etc., here's the link: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=443873&highlight=wikipedia MatthewVanitas ( talk) 19:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
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Thanks. — Headbomb { ταλκ κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:09, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)
I was wondering if I could get some help on this. Someone already created an article on the Colt M1892, but I think that's only a variant of the 1889. I'm using this as a source. There seems to be a vast array of DA revolvers that apparently are from the same family, that were used by the military in the late 1800's. -- Phil1988 ( talk) 19:32, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I believe that the criminal use guideline may be setting too high a bar for notability. The guideline suggests that there would have to be a legislative change caused by criminal use or widespread media interest in the firearm. However, the notability article in Wikipedia says that "It is agreed on Wikipedia that notability must be demonstrated using what are termed "reliable sources". The theory of "reliable sources", on which the core policy of verifiability rests, has been one of the key developments over Wikipedia's lifetime. Reliable sources generally include mainstream news media and major academic journals, and generally exclude self-published sources, particularly when self-published on the internet. The foundation of this theory is that reliable sources "exercise some form of editorial control.".............Based on this source, I would argue that if a journalist, historian, law enforcement official, etc. makes a statement about the criminal use of a certain firearm in a reputable published source, then this could go in the article on the firearm in question. To repeat the hypothetical example I gave in my attempt to propose changes to the guideline:"In 2002, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms stated that the 9mm XXX-99 was the most commonly used handgun in felony offenses in the US" [source to reputable book or newspaper]..........Other reliable sources might include historians:"In 1999, firearm historian Jane Doe released a study that indicated that the 9mm XXX-99 was the most widely used handgun in armed robberies in the US in the 1970s and 1980s[reference]. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 04:48, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I added standard Wikipedia language on reliable sources. Re: the notion that only the project coordinator can make changes to the guidelines page...do you have a source of authority for this claim? It was suggested earlier that proposals have to be submitted, and then discussed, and then the coordinator will make the changes. Yet a back-and-forth of editing on a page is a widely used way of, in effect, having a discussion. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 04:56, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
There's a discussion at Sawed-off shotgun regarding a potential name change- "Sawed-off" shotgun is not regarded as the "common" name, with "Sawn-off" shotgun being both grammatically correct (or at least moreso than "sawed"), and in more common usage world-wide than the (parts of the) US-centric "Sawed". Personally my vote is for a move to "Sawn-off shotgun" (which is what the article's subject is referred to as near-exclusively throughout the article itself), but rather than just arbitrarily moving the article I thought it best to get some input first. Commander Zulu ( talk) 10:51, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Krag-Jørgensen for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. YellowMonkey ( cricket calendar poll!) 01:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
It currently says on the project page that two of the "highly common" names for the MP-40 are Schmeisser and burp gun, but this is incorrect- the term "Burp Gun" refers to the PPSh-41, not the MP-40. The MP-40 article makes no mention of "burp gun" as a nickname, whereas the PPSh-41 article does make mention of the titular firearm being called a "Burp Gun". (They're called "Burp guns" because of their extremely high rate of fire- around 900rpm!) The link Burp gun redirects to Submachine gun, so I'd argue that the wording on the project page needs to be changed to something like "...should use the real name or a highly common nickname (e.g. Schmeisser for the MP-40, or Tommy Gun for the Thompson Submachine gun)." Thoughts? Commander Zulu ( talk) 11:17, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
The article "British Military Rifles" contains the statement:
Many M1917s were also, ironically, sent to Britain under Lend-Lease, where they equipped Home Guard units; these .30-06 rifles had a prominent red stripe painted on the stock to distinguish them from .303 P-14's.
I believe this is incorrect. The M1917s were sold to the UK in 1940 for a nominal price. Lend-Lease did not begin until March 1941/
Df1995 ( talk) 08:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi everyone, I'm Ironkoji.
In the last few weeks somebody has gone through the list of assault rifles and virtually gutted the information on many of the rifles there. I would sincerely like to have the information that has been removed, to be restored. Please don't say it was because of lack of citations and whatnot. I'd studied and verified plenty of the information that has been removed. You may not have notice or may not have liked the citations given, but for the most part it was all there. Especially interesting where the very extensive articles on the FFV AK 5 Basic and the Beretta AR 70/90. How can I get the missing information restored please, because without it I cannot give further citations and bibliography on that information. I don't have a photographic memory. I'm not trying to be unfriendly, but it's true, many of the articles have virtually been gutted and that information, for the most part was legitimate. Please restore the information and give me some time and I'll help to improve the citations for it.
Your friend,
Ironkoji —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ironkoji ( talk • contribs) 17:54, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Kammerlader for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Tom B ( talk) 16:10, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Someone has just gone and drastically re-written the Pop Culture guidelines. I'm not necessarily saying I seriously disagree with them, but I'm pretty sure we're, you know, supposed to discuss these sorts of things with the other project members rather than making sweeping arbitrary changes... Commander Zulu ( talk) 11:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
a) making a distinction between trivia sections and "In popular culture" sections b) removing the statement that pop culture sections clutter articles and add little (or softening it by saying "indiscriminate lists of pop culture references clutter articles"). As is, the guideline appears hostile to the inclusion of pop culture references. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 04:32, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Please tell me where it says pop culture sections clutter articles. Because it doesn't, it says "In general, pop culture sections clutter articles and add little". Then it goes on to state what kind of pop culture information belongs in Wikipedia. Really what it is saying is other than some kinds of information (which it then gives examples of) pop culture isn't a good thing. And it doesn't say no pop culture, it says to avoid it, as these sections have to be carefully maintained to prevent them from spiraling out of control. Now, adding a qualifier to the statement about pop culture sections in reference to quality would not be a bad idea. Now, I wouldn't mind making a small distinction between pop culture and trivia, but one reason it uses trivia now is because so much of the material that winds up in pop culture sections is pointless trivia. -- LWF ( talk) 05:36, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Please help me improve the semi-auto pistol category. Suggest we move the 'vendor' names into a subcategory "Pistols by Manufacturer" and add another category "Pistols by year produced" and subcategorize accordingly. Spectre9 ( talk) 04:50, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Whomever is responsible for the opening paragraphs under "Assault Weapon" does not know (anything)! I don't care how many college degrees you have or how many years you've been a lawyer or how many years you've spent in the military and/or police or how much you "think" you know about firearms! YOU ARE WRONG!!! NO semi-auto guns are assault weapons no matter what military firearms they "may" resemble or how scary milquetoast Americans think they look! That IS FACT and is NOT up for debate! Communist politicians can NOT come along and summarily deem perfectly legal guns illegal as they see fit! That's how these clowns get voted out of office, re: 1994! This (deleted) is what makes "Wikipedia" look like just another giant joke on the internet! Self-professed experts in law and firearms and the military and law enforcement are a dime a dozen!
JRR 6-14-09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrrbrt ( talk • contribs) 02:17, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
The term "assault weapon" has several different meanings, which are discussed in the Assault weapon article, but the most common meaning is the legally created definition. This includes certain semi-automatic firearms, not full auto ones. Whether or not this legally created definition is arbitrary or muddle-headed or anti-gun is part of the debate, and that's discussed in the article also. Any article on Wikipedia needs to be written for the average reader. For example, someone in the U.S. might say to themselves, "There's a proposal to ban assault weapons, but what are those, exactly? I'll look it up on Wikipedia." If the article says that they're full auto, the average reader will be completely misled. Note also that this article is about a very controversial topic, so maintaining a neutral point of view is also an issue. I'd like to encourage interested members of this WikiProject to take a more active role in patrolling the article, and to comment on this question, either here or at Talk:Assault weapon#Term "assault weapon". Thanks. — Mudwater ( Talk) 03:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Krag-Petersson for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. YellowMonkey ( cricket calendar poll!) 04:29, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
I wanted to propose here before I did any changing that foreign-language characters be transliterated in the titles and text of WP:GUNS articles. The reason is actually policy spelled out in WP:EN. This is a no-brainer to me, but some editors went around a while back and changed several articles. Notably, the CZ-82 article and other Czech guns. I'll list a few here:
ČZ vz. 82 should be CZ-82 or CZ model 82, ČZ vz. 27 should be CZ-27 or CZ model 27, etc. with ČZ vz. 52 and possibly some others. Also, there is Vz. 50 which is translated as "model 50". Don't think I'm going out on a limb and the WP:EN article seams crystal clear to me. I can be sure that few people know how to type a "Č" let alone what it is. Any other thoughts? -- Nukes4Tots ( talk) 19:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Well there is one more thing to be decided. What should we use as the standard format. I believe, using the CZ-24 as an example, we should use "CZ 24 pistol" as the standard format rifle. This does several things. First, that's how "CZ" currently does it. See: [1]. Also, the word "pistol" will help differentiate between the CZ 24 pistol and the CZ 24 rifle. I don't believe that VZ, Vz, Vzor, vzor, or any other permutation of the word, "Model" should be used in the English language article besides in the lede to provide the Czech translation. I'd like a consensus on the naming so that I don't have to go back and explain myself when all the nay-sayers come along and say it shouldn't be that way. Here's some examples of the moves needed: Pistole vz. 22 becomes CZ 22 pistol. Pistole vz. 24 becomes CZ 24 pistol. ČZ vz. 27 becomes CZ 27 pistol. CZ 45 becomes CZ 45 pistol. vz. 50 becomes CZ 50 pistol. ČZ vz. 52 becomes CZ 52 pistol. ČZ vz. 82 becomes CZ 82 pistol. Škorpion vz. 61 becomes Skorpion submachinegun? Any other suggested moves?
Just a comment as WP:EN is clear in this regard. If/when the articles are re-named, I would like to see foreign alternative designation retained somewhere in the article (opening sentence, infobox, in a parenthetical statement, etc.) as it is of interest to some readers. Thanks. Surv1v4l1st ( Talk| Contribs) 13:45, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Why does the barrel of a pistol or rifle rise - as opposed to jerking any which way - when fired? Why is the barrel forced upward? Why not any direction, straight down, or left or right? Contributions/167.153.5.107 ( talk) 16:42, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Are there guidelines for producing the weapons photos? Do's & Don'ts? Looking for tips and advice. Appreciate any help. Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► (
(⊕)) 03:20, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Photo Gallery |
---|
Photo comparisons - Request for comments |
|
How are these? Am I getting warm? I've shown different configurations not knowing if there is a preference. I added the Mini Thirty to see if this weapon should be racked on the pegboard for a more proper photo like the Mini-14 or whether this may be too accessorized by current community standards. Details are on the description pages. Once I get a better idea about what I'm striving for and the weather turns, I plan to try again. I really like the transparent graphic versions such as
this Rk62. May try my hand at that later.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► (
(⊕)) 03:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I have been looking at a few firearm articles which have multiple variants of a given weapon listed in the same infobox. The problem I see is that the information is presented in a backwards manner that is more difficult to process and doesn't mesh well with general use of English language. As an example from the SIG SG 550 article, the infobox has a listed length as 772 mm (30.4 in) stock folded (SG 550) .
Now, I find that absolutely backwards; it is irritating to read because you have to process the information backwards to remember it. SG 550 (stock folded): 772 mm (30.4 in) is much more approachable and easier to remember. Normally when you (or at least I) look at a data table or a spreadsheet, the leftmost entry is the name of the whatever, and the information to the right of that is the data/specs/etc. Allow me to throw out as an example an infobox from the Honda Accord article which lists type (hatchback, sedan, etc) before length. Some guy ( talk) 09:44, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I thought I remembered discussing this here but I guess not. Whatever. As briefly as possible:
MP5 has next to no organization. The design details section is extremely unapproachable and generally too long. The MP5 article is rated start class. By comparison the AK-47 article has more organization with better use of subsections, and no extremely detailed and long description of the mechanics involved in firing the gun. The AK-47 article has been a featured article. My point here is that articles such as the MP5 article are not well organized and need subsections, and there should be a general policy on applicable subsections under "design details". My feelings are somewhere along the lines of "features" and/or "accessories" as subsections, as well as "firing mechanism/process/whatever" if this is deemed absolutely necessary (though it seems to me it would be better to have a single article discussing, say, the typical mechanical process in firing a closed-bolt submachine gun than having a description of the process in every article that would fall into that category.
I implented some minor but (I feel) needed organization to the MP5 article which was reverted. Here is the edit if anyone feels like commenting on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Heckler_%26_Koch_MP5&diff=298456725&oldid=298449435 Some guy ( talk) 08:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
There are a few important changes to the popular pages system. A quick summary:
-- Mr. Z-man 23:59, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Would someone with some expertise mind taking a look at Heckler and Koch MP9, which I've just run across? The article's unsourced and with no inbound links, and a cursory search can't immediately seem to corroborate the thing exists. I'm unclear if this is because it's an outright hoax or if it's just a matter of names getting mixed up, and the content is actually talking about something else.
Thanks all. Shimgray | talk | 08:22, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Should we add info on dissassembly of firearms to their articles if available? Cerebellum ( talk) 22:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Per a conversation that started here, I would like to standardize an html comment for the Users sections on all firearms articles that reads approximately:
"This section is for cited entries only. Please do not add entries into this list without a citation from a reliable source. All entries without a citation will be removed."
I would also like to know your ideas on whether it is better to remove the unsourced entries altogether or tag them as "citation needed" and give them a while. These sections are subject to driveby creep and I'm hoping to put an end to that.
Thank you, ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ( (⊕)) 00:24, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion spanning multiple pages of the project concerning capitalizations in the titles of certain firearms. The question is whether or not pages like M3 Howitzer and M2 Mortar should be changed to "M3 howitzer" and "M2 mortar". I was hoping more project members could weigh in. The discussion can be found here. Neil Clancy 03:32, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
It seems that the force of the bullet is primarily shown in foot-pounds in cartridges when the caliber is in inches with the measurement in Joules in parenthesis. Ex: .30-06 Springfield In cartridges whose name is in mm, joules is the primary measurement. Ex: 7.62x51mm NATO It seems awfully arbitrary to assign the unit of measurement based on the cartridge's name. Could it be changed so that joules is the primary measurement for all the cartridges, with foot-pounds in parenthesis? It would make it easier to compare them if you knew that all articles had the same format in the infobox. 24.6.46.177 ( talk) 17:45, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
I noticed just now that there's no clear category shared by Jeff Cooper, Elmer Keith, Bill Jordan, Charles Askins, etc. Some of those gents aren't in any firearms-related category at all. So for the moment I categorised them as Category:People associated with firearms (which is itself not an ideal title), along with gun designers and the like. Should we have a category like Category:Gun writers and file it both under Category:People associated with firearms and Category:Writers by topic? Or does anyone have a better filing idea? In the meantime, if there are other similar figures I've missed, please put them in Category:People associated with firearms for the time being until we find a better place for writers/columnists. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 02:06, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Currently nearly half of the entire Category:Hunting is taken up with entries for firearms cartridges. I'd argue that such a presence in the parent cat is excessive. What do y'all think more workable: 1) not have any cartridges categorised under "Hunting" at all, as a huge percentage of cartridges have been used for hunting, or 2) create a new "Hunting cartridges" or whatever-named category and dump them all in there? The current settup is really not workable, since I imagine most folks interested in hunting aren't fascinated by the minutiae of .308 Winchester vs. .307 Winchester and whatnot. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 03:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Hello, I'm relatively new here, but I was interested in cleaning up Bullpup. I've got a few minor sources I've been using through a cursory book search, but I was wondering if anyone knew of more meaningful sources to use (I can send for them via my local library if needed.) I'm assuming some of the info would be in firearm configuration histories, that sort of stuff. -- Martin Raybourne ( talk) 22:31, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
I've given this a cleanup, but I don't know anything about anything when it comes to bullets and ammo. WP Firearms residents could probably easily run their magic over this (infoboxes, categories, check the name of the article, etc...) and turn this into a solid stub/article article with minimum effort. Headbomb { ταλκ κοντριβς – WP Physics} 02:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Dear Wikipedia.
I am related through marriage to Joseph Manton, London gunmaker.
I noted that Wikipedia had recorded Manton's date of birth as being 1760, whereas, the
Mantom family tree (of which I have a copy) records Joseph Mantons birth date as being 1766.
Additionally, 1766 is recorded on the epitaph of his grave, stating that he died in 1835 aged 69.
I have taken the liberty and "tried" to correct his birth date on your records.
If I have failed to do so, could you please make the correction for me please.
Thanks and kind regards, Laurance A Cronin (Australia)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.219.142.247 ( talk • contribs) 07:41, 27 September 2009
I can think of one disadvantage presented by double rifles. During the manufacturing process these firearms are regulated. That is to say they are sighted in using specific ammunition. Not using this ammunition may result in less than acceptable accuracy. This is not only a concern when purchasing an older rifle but even modern ammunition is sometimes changed in significant ways. I suppose there are ways around this problem but I can offer no advice. It would be very sad indeed to buy an expensive rifle only to discover you have a problem. I offer this information as food for thought and do not claim to be an expert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.49.167.77 ( talk) 07:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, first time contributor. Just plain forgot to sign out.
Cape fisherman 110.49.167.77 ( talk) 08:14, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions#Ammunition articles. -- JHunterJ ( talk) 13:32, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Jarmann M1884 for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. YellowMonkey ( bananabucket) 05:16, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I would like to propose some changes to the Pop Culture guideline. I am concerned about the conflation of pop culture sections and trivia sections ("Avoid pop culture and trivia sections"). Yes, trivia sections are often full of pop culture information ("In the unreleased episode #473 of Cool Anime, one of the henchmen in the title montage is carrying a Desert Eagle"). However, trivia sections can also contain random factoids about variant designs, optional accessories ("ABC company in Utah makes a velcro strap for the scope...), usage by different military units ("The rearguard troops in the Ossetian 3rd Brigade carried Skorpion machine pistols in the early 1980s...")So it seems sort of like "guilt by association" to put the two terms together........As well, the next sentence sets what I argue is a too-high bar for inclusion of pop culture information ("Acceptable pop culture information should be highly notable..."). According to Wikipedia policies, I would argue that the bar is more modest: if a reputable film critic or film historian has noted (in print) the way that the use or depiction of a certain weapon (or class of weapons) in a film contributes to the aesthetic goals or style of a film then this would appear to qualify for inclusion in the article about the weapon (or the class of weapon). You have to follow WP:UNDUE, of course, and provide a reference. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 23:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Avoid trivia sections, because in general they clutter articles, and contribute very little. Wikipedia is not a collection of random information.
Pop culture sections in firearm articles should not consist of a list of appearances of a certain firearm or class of firearms in films, TV shows, or comic books. Acceptable pop culture information should have a reference to a reputable source which explains the pop culture impact of the firearm in question. If a cultural reference is genuinely significant it should be possible to find a reliable secondary source that supports that judgment. Quoting a respected expert attesting to the importance of a subject as a cultural influence is encouraged. For example the Walther PPK's use by James Bond could appear in the Walther PPK article, because the use of this gun by the fictional spy been noted by a number of film critics. The pop cultural item that the firearm appeared in must represent the firearm realistically, and if named, should use the real name or a highly common nickname (e.g. Schmeisser for the MP40, or Burp gun for the PPSh-41). Speculation as to fictional appearances such as claims of a fictional gun being based on a real one should be removed in all cases as they are original research. Likewise, lists of fictional appearances should be removed as they violate WP:AVTRIV. Airsoft versions of real firearms are not notable to the firearm article. Citations are needed if the notability of an appearance of a firearm in pop culture is disputed; these citations should not be a list of appearances but should be a source actually showing increased fame or notoriety because of the appearances. See WP:MILMOS#POP for the guidelines on pop culture pertaining to military history, including military firearms. Pop culture should be treated in articles with coverage appropriate to its significance to the subject of the article; as per WP:UNDUE.
Added two new cats: Category:.25ACP firearms and Category:.32 ACP firearms. I put the "ACP" next to the number, per ".22LR" in the first cat, but does WP:GUNS prefer to separate them? In any case, it seems to me there is some utility to doing this as a cat rather than as a List. Let me know if you think more cats like this are worth exploring or no, and feel free to add to the extant categories. I may have to put the ".25ACP" one through WP:CFD to get a space put in there, though can probably do a speedy if everyone agrees there should be a space here on the discussion page. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 04:04, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Elmer was not as involved in the .357 as the article says. P.B. Sharpe was more responsible than Elmer. The case was not as described "otherwise identical " The original cases has large primer pockets, large primers, and more metal in the case at the web than a .38 due to higher pressures of 46,900 CUP. The current .357 is 35,000 CUP, and of course small primer pocket but still more metal at the web. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.230.170.152 ( talk) 04:01, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
The original .357 cases had large primer pockets. There is more metal in the case at the web. The .38 Special came out in 1899 NOT 1902. It became smokeless in 1902.The .357 was D.B.Wesson's idea just like the .38 special, with P.B.Sharpe doing the testing and load development. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.230.170.152 ( talk) 19:47, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
It appears that this issue has been resolved. Can this be marked as having been completed on the TO DO list? Kartano ( talk) 00:32, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I also have a suggestion for the improvement of the criminal use guideline. Currently, it says criminal use info must meet "some" criteria. This seeems a little vague. How about saying that.....................Criminal use sections in firearm articles should not consist of a list of uses of a certain firearm or class of firearms in the commission of various crimes. Acceptable information on criminal use of a firearm should have a reference to a reputable source which explains the impact of the firearm in question to law enforcement or criminal conduct. If a reference to criminal use of a firearm is genuinely significant it should be possible to find a reliable secondary source that supports that judgment. Quoting a respected expert or organization (e.g., the FBI) is encouraged. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 23:37, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I belive that many of the articals on firearms needs a lot of improvement and insert like the page on the jackhamer i found a lot more info than what ive found
What is the consensus at the moment on creating an article relating to the AIA manufactured M10 series of rifles? These rifles are now garnerning a lot more note in shooting circles in Australia and the availability of the firearms has improved with them being obtained through multiple dealers. I don't think the company merits an article, but perhaps the rifles do? I have several magazine and print references that could be used for these now. Any comments? Kartano ( talk) 00:13, 2 December 2009 (UTC)
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | → | Archive 10 |
I've found a number of weapon article that I really think need to be renamed, and rather than proposing moves on each individual page which would require too much effort, we'll discuss it here. Here are the ones I think need to be moved:
Per naming conventions as the qualifiers at the end are unnecessary. I don't think we need to move the machine gun articles like M1919 Browning machine gun or M1941 Johnson machine gun because they are commonly reffered to by those names ("BMG", "BAR" etc).-- Patton t/ c 21:35, 10 February 2009 (UTC)
This is coming a little late, but did anyone look at
Wikipedia:WEAPON#Naming_conventions? Those are the Military History Project's guidelines on naming military weapons, and it specifically calls for the type designators, like submachine gun, rifle, and the like.--
LWF (
talk) 20:52, 14 February 2009 (UTC)
Some I polished more than others, but I thought it best to transfer quick and early, put up appropriate templates, and let them develop as needed. Mainly GoogleTranslated, and did some touch-up on various articles, though others still legible but rough. Some neat stuff I'd never have thought to create on my own:
EDIT: Also went through the Spanish and Portuguese wikis. Not much interesting in the Spanish, but several good articles in the Portuguese that I've transfered over. NOTE: the pt.wiki infobox doesn't cross over, if someone could neaten up the infoboxes that'd be awesome.
MatthewVanitas ( talk) 01:37, 19 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi. I'm currently working on M249 SAW and I need reliable sources detailing gun ownership laws in the US and whether it's legal to own a SAW.-- Patton 123 17:13, 30 December 2008 (UTC)
You are essentially correct about getting a CLEO to sign the forms. As I remember it, you also need to submit a set of fingerprints with the application. I would also check the weapon against the NFA registry to make sure it is properly recorded before buying it. I think you will find owning an M249 SAW legally will be highly problematic unless you are a Class 3 dealer. I'm almost certain none were produced for civilian sale prior to 1986 so any M249 you will run into will be in the possession of military, law enforcement or a Class 3 dealer. If the dealer has it, then most likely it will be a post-86 dealer sample which means no one other than a federally licensed, Class 3 dealer can have it. By the way, if you are interested in becoming a Class 3 dealer, I would suggest you take a look at Small Arms Review and Jane's International Defense Review to see what you are getting yourself into. It will be expensive, trust me. I would also suggest you live in a state with few gun restrictions (i.e. Nevada) before you even think about it. By the way, make sure you are going to run it as a legitimate, for-profit enterprise. BATFE takes a very dim view of applicants getting a license just to enhance a collection. If you want a quick primer on Title 2 weapons law, try to find a copy of Dan Shea's Machine Gun Dealer's Bible.
Good luck! Wmoberndorf ( talk) 01:32, 26 February 2009 (UTC) User:Wmoberndorf February 21, 2009
Given that the C96 is one of the most famous and influential handguns of all time, I think it deserves a better and more thorough article than the currently standing one. I've begun a re-write (with the addition of references) to try and expand it and get the article up to FA class; I'm open to suggestions, ideas, or assistance on how we can improve the article! Commander Zulu ( talk) 05:39, 2 January 2009 (UTC)
I've found a bunch of pages that seriously need moving:
They're a complete mess. We have a number of optiosn here:
I propose moving the navy one to "Mk 12" and either "mod 0" or somethign else. Ideas?-- Patton t/ c 22:00, 26 February 2009 (UTC)
Hi! I'd like to draw your attention to the new WikiProject coordinators' working group, an effort to bring both official and unofficial WikiProject coordinators together so that the projects can more easily develop consensus and collaborate. This group has been created after discussion regarding possible changes to the A-Class review system, and that may be one of the first things discussed by interested coordinators.
All designated project coordinators are invited to join this working group. If your project hasn't formally designated any editors as coordinators, but you are someone who regularly deals with coordination tasks in the project, please feel free to join as well. — Delievered by §hepBot ( Disable) on behalf of the WikiProject coordinators' working group at 05:25, 28 February 2009 (UTC)
On the infobox in this article are two country names. Why are flag icons needed here? They don't add anything. How is United States better than United States? It's the same as writing Turtle, Plane and Rock. We might as well put an icon beside every noun on Wikipedia if we're doing this.-- Patton t/ c 20:03, 28 January 2009 (UTC)
the waltherppk can be equipted with multiple attathments such as
The categories "Revolver" and "Semi-automatic pistol" have become unmanageably large. I started to reorganize them into "X by brand/manufacturer" and "X by country" in order to better organize them. Since a lot of pistol are used for a variety of things (police, military, civilian) it made most sense to define them by maker and/or country of origin. One member expressed concern about my making changes without consulting the group, so I'm here to ask: do folks agree that "Semi-automatic pistols" and "Revolver" categories should be broken down into country/brand/other categories, and that basically no individual model should be listed on the main category page unless it simply cannot be defined by country or brand? Having 200-300 models listed within just the "Semi-automatic pistol" category is unmanageable. I'd imagine the Rifle sub-cats might have similar problems. What say you? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 06:44, 4 February 2009 (UTC)
The category [Category:U.S. Fire Arms Mfg. Co.] lists a number of Wiki articles on firearms made by the US Fire Arms Manufacturing Co, and I'm really not sure they're necessary, as they all appear to be versions of the Colt Single Action Army and not really that different from one another in any major respect. The articles are properly sourced and referenced, but there's very faint tinge of fanboyism or advertising about them and I'm just not entirely convinced that they couldn't be better condensed into a single article- U.S. Fire Arms Manufacturing Co. revolvers, for example. Any thoughts? Commander Zulu ( talk) 02:01, 15 February 2009 (UTC)
AK-47 is by far the most viewed article in our scope, with well over 250,000 views last month alone. The only other article that even comes close is M16 rifle with just under 200,000 views last month. I'd like to propose a collaboration to get this article to featured status. We can each take a section and work on that, then put them all together and write the lede. Here's the structure I'd like to use:
The development, design details and variants section will be pretty sraightforward. The operational history section will be abolsutly huge, so I suggest we split content from it into a much sub article ("Operational history of the AK-47") and just give a summary in the main article. Even if we only give a single sentence per country and war this has been used with it's is going to be gargauntuan. Civilian use will be fairly straightforward, but cultural impact will probably be very hard to source. We'll have to include stuff like the flag of mozambique etc.
So what sections would you guys like to do if you think this is a good idea? I'll do any. Btw the pageview counter for Wikipedia is here, but it doesn't count redirects so you have to type in each redirect and add it up maunally yourself.-- Patton t/ c 20:00, 20 February 2009 (UTC)
Here's my proposal for weapons mainly used by militaries rather than civilians Obviously it should only be a rough guide subject ot change on a case-by-case basis
Patton t/ c 18:03, 22 February 2009 (UTC)
I'd say we already have people looking out for the commando infiltrators and for soldiering teenagers.
Now on the point of US-Centric, in all honesty, yes it would focus on the US as the US is one of the biggest markets for firearms, if not the biggest, and a section that is mostly about the US is not a bad thing, as long as other relevant uses are covered. One thing I really want to avoid is removing applicable information because we aren't covering other countries, when there isn't anything to cover about other countries. I don't want equality in coverage, I want verifiability, and completeness.-- LWF ( talk) 06:46, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
I suggest we should write a single article about what guns are allowed where and why, an link to it. Otherwise we'd have to mention practically every single country that exists and whether it's legal to own whatever weapon the article is about there (That includes afghanistan). We can then leave out a legality/civilian ownership section and simply link to the article someplace else.-- Patton t/ c 21:45, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
To difficult, especially considering some laws are subject to interpretation, and that could possibly run into issues with Wikipedia not providing legal advice. In addition, it would have to have a disclaimer due to changing laws, and Wikipedia has a policy against disclaimers in articles. I think it's WP:NDA.-- LWF ( talk) 22:13, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
I've been noticing with rifles like the M14 that it's said they use "full-power rounds". I think this is a misnomer, it seems to imply other, lower powered, rounds aren't powered at their full capacity. Instead, I think what is meant is the term "high-powered". I've been correcting this in articles and it would be helpful if I wasn't the only one. -- Philip Laurence ( talk) 23:56, 23 February 2009 (UTC)
Can the article on the Dragunov Tiger be merged into the article on the Dragunov SVD? The Tiger is really a civilian version of the SVD rifle - the action and basic design of the rifle is almost identical. Kartano ( talk) 03:11, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
There's an AfD for Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/USFA Custer Battlefield Gun currently ongoing and it's generated some discussion about whether or not reproductions of guns go in the main article (as with WP:GUNS#Variants), or whether there are some guns- like the Colt Single Action Army and the M1911 pistol that have spawned so many reproductions, knock-offs, and clones that a separate article dealing with those reproduction/clone guns is warranted. Any thoughts on the subject? Commander Zulu ( talk) 01:00, 5 March 2009 (UTC)
Hi, all. I'm building up a list of references for the infamous M10 series of rifles from AIA. These are based heavily on the No. 4 action. Would it be worth adding information about these rifles to the article on the Lee-Enfield rifle? These rifles are slowly gaining popularity in Australia - as a Range Officer I now see several of them in use. Any comments or feedback on this idea? Kartano ( talk) 02:00, 4 March 2009 (UTC)
I've just added images and infoboxs to these articles:
Does anyone know any websites that display company information such as revenue or income? Because not all the fields have been filled. Thanks User:Tsange 16:56, 05 March 2009 (GMT)
I've put merge tags on two variants of the 5.56x45mm NATO cartridge. Per 'variants' section, these should fall under the main article. Though each variant may deserve a paragraph or even two as is the case with the SS109, I think that a separate article is redundant and confusing. One does not, for instance, have a separate article for the 200gr loading of the .45ACP. Please go to the talk page there and comment. Thanks. -- Nukes4Tots ( talk) 17:00, 7 March 2009 (UTC)
Think the hard core pornography line should be deleted (unless it's true of course).
Checked the offical site http://www.sportsmansassociation.co.uk/ that same text is there apart from the part about pornography I also found it was done by 86.129.248.15 IP address. I will remove it and try to build the page. Tsange ( talk) —Preceding undated comment added 15:50, 9 March 2009 (UTC).
Double-checked this against the WP:GUNS variant policy, but I'd argue that the harpoon guns based on the surplus Jarmann rifles are rather unique, differ notably from the original intent of the gun (and from guns at all), and should probably be their own article in Category:Whaling, with links between the two. Anyone object to my splitting the harpoon-gun info into its own article? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 04:48, 13 March 2009 (UTC)
Could the CQBR article be merged with another such as the AR15 or M16? This seems to be about a modification to an existing rifle. Does it however merit a seperate article, in a similar way to the Pederson Device? Kartano ( talk) 03:42, 17 March 2009 (UTC)
A certain user:Theserialcomma thinks it should be defined as a weapon. The term "weapon" implies a use that is not implicit in the tool. In reality, very few weapons are exclusively weapons. The vast majority of firearms are not used as weapons. They are used as tools for punching holes in paper targets, knocking over steel plates, or just making noise. The term weapon limits the definition of a firearm to only one of its many uses, that of a weapon. Beyond that, the term "weapon" has negative connotations and may be considered POV and pejorative. Firearms are tools. Their use as a weapon involves the choice of the owner, not the nature of the firearm. I've made these points before and the consensus was to keep it as a tool. However, the particular user who is warring with me over this one also thought that five references were not enough to validate that a compensator reduced percieved recoil. Could I get some input on the article Firearm from the WP:Firearms community? Thanks. -- Nukes4Tots ( talk) 16:54, 25 March 2009 (UTC)
About half-way down the Coalition to Stop Gun Violence page there is a boxed list called "gun interest groups in the US" - does it exist as a nav box or can it be turned into one? -- Cameron Scott ( talk) 21:28, 27 March 2009 (UTC)
A user is trying to add an obscure reference to "three-oh-three" in a movie he watched to the article, Lee Enfield. Could we have a few knowledgeable users attand that discussion. For the record, he is also edit warring to include "Puke state" as an altrenate name for the state of Missouri. Thanks for the help. -- Nukes4Tots ( talk) 16:00, 2 April 2009 (UTC)
Another forum I follow had some relatively knowledgeable folks come across Mondragón rifle, and several said that there appear to be all kinds of falsehoods inserted into the article. The Mondragon has plenty of rumour and myth attached to it, but apparently the claim that Germans made sniper rifles from them, and similar claims in the article, are completely lacking in accuracy. Does anyone have any resources available to tackle this issue? Any reputable books against which these claims can be fact-checked? MatthewVanitas ( talk) 19:16, 3 April 2009 (UTC)
There is a proposal here to move Colt CMG-1 machine gun to CMG-1. Thanks!-- Patton t/ c 14:10, 8 April 2009 (UTC)
I was in the process of trying to remember what type of 9mm pistol I shot in the Navy when I typed "9mm pistol" in the search box. Oddly enough, there is no article with that name. Not even a redirect. Any suggestions on what it should redirect to? It seems like a reasonable search item.-- Rockfang ( talk) 03:29, 9 April 2009 (UTC)
I'm a regular poster on www.thehighroad.org (a major firearms forum with 87,000 members), and have been trying to drum up some support for WP:GUNS. If any members here are also THR members, and want to offer any insight as to why this project is important to the firearms community, suggest how folks can help out, etc., here's the link: http://www.thehighroad.org/showthread.php?t=443873&highlight=wikipedia MatthewVanitas ( talk) 19:38, 22 April 2009 (UTC)
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Thanks. — Headbomb { ταλκ κοντριβς – WP Physics} 09:09, 15 March, 2009 (UTC)
I was wondering if I could get some help on this. Someone already created an article on the Colt M1892, but I think that's only a variant of the 1889. I'm using this as a source. There seems to be a vast array of DA revolvers that apparently are from the same family, that were used by the military in the late 1800's. -- Phil1988 ( talk) 19:32, 27 April 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I believe that the criminal use guideline may be setting too high a bar for notability. The guideline suggests that there would have to be a legislative change caused by criminal use or widespread media interest in the firearm. However, the notability article in Wikipedia says that "It is agreed on Wikipedia that notability must be demonstrated using what are termed "reliable sources". The theory of "reliable sources", on which the core policy of verifiability rests, has been one of the key developments over Wikipedia's lifetime. Reliable sources generally include mainstream news media and major academic journals, and generally exclude self-published sources, particularly when self-published on the internet. The foundation of this theory is that reliable sources "exercise some form of editorial control.".............Based on this source, I would argue that if a journalist, historian, law enforcement official, etc. makes a statement about the criminal use of a certain firearm in a reputable published source, then this could go in the article on the firearm in question. To repeat the hypothetical example I gave in my attempt to propose changes to the guideline:"In 2002, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms stated that the 9mm XXX-99 was the most commonly used handgun in felony offenses in the US" [source to reputable book or newspaper]..........Other reliable sources might include historians:"In 1999, firearm historian Jane Doe released a study that indicated that the 9mm XXX-99 was the most widely used handgun in armed robberies in the US in the 1970s and 1980s[reference]. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 04:48, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I added standard Wikipedia language on reliable sources. Re: the notion that only the project coordinator can make changes to the guidelines page...do you have a source of authority for this claim? It was suggested earlier that proposals have to be submitted, and then discussed, and then the coordinator will make the changes. Yet a back-and-forth of editing on a page is a widely used way of, in effect, having a discussion. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 04:56, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
There's a discussion at Sawed-off shotgun regarding a potential name change- "Sawed-off" shotgun is not regarded as the "common" name, with "Sawn-off" shotgun being both grammatically correct (or at least moreso than "sawed"), and in more common usage world-wide than the (parts of the) US-centric "Sawed". Personally my vote is for a move to "Sawn-off shotgun" (which is what the article's subject is referred to as near-exclusively throughout the article itself), but rather than just arbitrarily moving the article I thought it best to get some input first. Commander Zulu ( talk) 10:51, 22 May 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Krag-Jørgensen for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. YellowMonkey ( cricket calendar poll!) 01:55, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
It currently says on the project page that two of the "highly common" names for the MP-40 are Schmeisser and burp gun, but this is incorrect- the term "Burp Gun" refers to the PPSh-41, not the MP-40. The MP-40 article makes no mention of "burp gun" as a nickname, whereas the PPSh-41 article does make mention of the titular firearm being called a "Burp Gun". (They're called "Burp guns" because of their extremely high rate of fire- around 900rpm!) The link Burp gun redirects to Submachine gun, so I'd argue that the wording on the project page needs to be changed to something like "...should use the real name or a highly common nickname (e.g. Schmeisser for the MP-40, or Tommy Gun for the Thompson Submachine gun)." Thoughts? Commander Zulu ( talk) 11:17, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
The article "British Military Rifles" contains the statement:
Many M1917s were also, ironically, sent to Britain under Lend-Lease, where they equipped Home Guard units; these .30-06 rifles had a prominent red stripe painted on the stock to distinguish them from .303 P-14's.
I believe this is incorrect. The M1917s were sold to the UK in 1940 for a nominal price. Lend-Lease did not begin until March 1941/
Df1995 ( talk) 08:09, 26 May 2009 (UTC)
Hi everyone, I'm Ironkoji.
In the last few weeks somebody has gone through the list of assault rifles and virtually gutted the information on many of the rifles there. I would sincerely like to have the information that has been removed, to be restored. Please don't say it was because of lack of citations and whatnot. I'd studied and verified plenty of the information that has been removed. You may not have notice or may not have liked the citations given, but for the most part it was all there. Especially interesting where the very extensive articles on the FFV AK 5 Basic and the Beretta AR 70/90. How can I get the missing information restored please, because without it I cannot give further citations and bibliography on that information. I don't have a photographic memory. I'm not trying to be unfriendly, but it's true, many of the articles have virtually been gutted and that information, for the most part was legitimate. Please restore the information and give me some time and I'll help to improve the citations for it.
Your friend,
Ironkoji —Preceding unsigned comment added by Ironkoji ( talk • contribs) 17:54, 31 May 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Kammerlader for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. Tom B ( talk) 16:10, 6 June 2009 (UTC)
Someone has just gone and drastically re-written the Pop Culture guidelines. I'm not necessarily saying I seriously disagree with them, but I'm pretty sure we're, you know, supposed to discuss these sorts of things with the other project members rather than making sweeping arbitrary changes... Commander Zulu ( talk) 11:55, 15 May 2009 (UTC)
a) making a distinction between trivia sections and "In popular culture" sections b) removing the statement that pop culture sections clutter articles and add little (or softening it by saying "indiscriminate lists of pop culture references clutter articles"). As is, the guideline appears hostile to the inclusion of pop culture references. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 04:32, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Please tell me where it says pop culture sections clutter articles. Because it doesn't, it says "In general, pop culture sections clutter articles and add little". Then it goes on to state what kind of pop culture information belongs in Wikipedia. Really what it is saying is other than some kinds of information (which it then gives examples of) pop culture isn't a good thing. And it doesn't say no pop culture, it says to avoid it, as these sections have to be carefully maintained to prevent them from spiraling out of control. Now, adding a qualifier to the statement about pop culture sections in reference to quality would not be a bad idea. Now, I wouldn't mind making a small distinction between pop culture and trivia, but one reason it uses trivia now is because so much of the material that winds up in pop culture sections is pointless trivia. -- LWF ( talk) 05:36, 16 May 2009 (UTC)
Please help me improve the semi-auto pistol category. Suggest we move the 'vendor' names into a subcategory "Pistols by Manufacturer" and add another category "Pistols by year produced" and subcategorize accordingly. Spectre9 ( talk) 04:50, 10 June 2009 (UTC)
Whomever is responsible for the opening paragraphs under "Assault Weapon" does not know (anything)! I don't care how many college degrees you have or how many years you've been a lawyer or how many years you've spent in the military and/or police or how much you "think" you know about firearms! YOU ARE WRONG!!! NO semi-auto guns are assault weapons no matter what military firearms they "may" resemble or how scary milquetoast Americans think they look! That IS FACT and is NOT up for debate! Communist politicians can NOT come along and summarily deem perfectly legal guns illegal as they see fit! That's how these clowns get voted out of office, re: 1994! This (deleted) is what makes "Wikipedia" look like just another giant joke on the internet! Self-professed experts in law and firearms and the military and law enforcement are a dime a dozen!
JRR 6-14-09 —Preceding unsigned comment added by Jrrbrt ( talk • contribs) 02:17, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
The term "assault weapon" has several different meanings, which are discussed in the Assault weapon article, but the most common meaning is the legally created definition. This includes certain semi-automatic firearms, not full auto ones. Whether or not this legally created definition is arbitrary or muddle-headed or anti-gun is part of the debate, and that's discussed in the article also. Any article on Wikipedia needs to be written for the average reader. For example, someone in the U.S. might say to themselves, "There's a proposal to ban assault weapons, but what are those, exactly? I'll look it up on Wikipedia." If the article says that they're full auto, the average reader will be completely misled. Note also that this article is about a very controversial topic, so maintaining a neutral point of view is also an issue. I'd like to encourage interested members of this WikiProject to take a more active role in patrolling the article, and to comment on this question, either here or at Talk:Assault weapon#Term "assault weapon". Thanks. — Mudwater ( Talk) 03:07, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Krag-Petersson for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. YellowMonkey ( cricket calendar poll!) 04:29, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
I wanted to propose here before I did any changing that foreign-language characters be transliterated in the titles and text of WP:GUNS articles. The reason is actually policy spelled out in WP:EN. This is a no-brainer to me, but some editors went around a while back and changed several articles. Notably, the CZ-82 article and other Czech guns. I'll list a few here:
ČZ vz. 82 should be CZ-82 or CZ model 82, ČZ vz. 27 should be CZ-27 or CZ model 27, etc. with ČZ vz. 52 and possibly some others. Also, there is Vz. 50 which is translated as "model 50". Don't think I'm going out on a limb and the WP:EN article seams crystal clear to me. I can be sure that few people know how to type a "Č" let alone what it is. Any other thoughts? -- Nukes4Tots ( talk) 19:28, 14 June 2009 (UTC)
(unindent) Well there is one more thing to be decided. What should we use as the standard format. I believe, using the CZ-24 as an example, we should use "CZ 24 pistol" as the standard format rifle. This does several things. First, that's how "CZ" currently does it. See: [1]. Also, the word "pistol" will help differentiate between the CZ 24 pistol and the CZ 24 rifle. I don't believe that VZ, Vz, Vzor, vzor, or any other permutation of the word, "Model" should be used in the English language article besides in the lede to provide the Czech translation. I'd like a consensus on the naming so that I don't have to go back and explain myself when all the nay-sayers come along and say it shouldn't be that way. Here's some examples of the moves needed: Pistole vz. 22 becomes CZ 22 pistol. Pistole vz. 24 becomes CZ 24 pistol. ČZ vz. 27 becomes CZ 27 pistol. CZ 45 becomes CZ 45 pistol. vz. 50 becomes CZ 50 pistol. ČZ vz. 52 becomes CZ 52 pistol. ČZ vz. 82 becomes CZ 82 pistol. Škorpion vz. 61 becomes Skorpion submachinegun? Any other suggested moves?
Just a comment as WP:EN is clear in this regard. If/when the articles are re-named, I would like to see foreign alternative designation retained somewhere in the article (opening sentence, infobox, in a parenthetical statement, etc.) as it is of interest to some readers. Thanks. Surv1v4l1st ( Talk| Contribs) 13:45, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Why does the barrel of a pistol or rifle rise - as opposed to jerking any which way - when fired? Why is the barrel forced upward? Why not any direction, straight down, or left or right? Contributions/167.153.5.107 ( talk) 16:42, 15 June 2009 (UTC)
Are there guidelines for producing the weapons photos? Do's & Don'ts? Looking for tips and advice. Appreciate any help. Cheers,
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► (
(⊕)) 03:20, 16 June 2009 (UTC)
Photo Gallery |
---|
Photo comparisons - Request for comments |
|
How are these? Am I getting warm? I've shown different configurations not knowing if there is a preference. I added the Mini Thirty to see if this weapon should be racked on the pegboard for a more proper photo like the Mini-14 or whether this may be too accessorized by current community standards. Details are on the description pages. Once I get a better idea about what I'm striving for and the weather turns, I plan to try again. I really like the transparent graphic versions such as
this Rk62. May try my hand at that later.
⋙–Berean–Hunter—► (
(⊕)) 03:23, 17 June 2009 (UTC)
I have been looking at a few firearm articles which have multiple variants of a given weapon listed in the same infobox. The problem I see is that the information is presented in a backwards manner that is more difficult to process and doesn't mesh well with general use of English language. As an example from the SIG SG 550 article, the infobox has a listed length as 772 mm (30.4 in) stock folded (SG 550) .
Now, I find that absolutely backwards; it is irritating to read because you have to process the information backwards to remember it. SG 550 (stock folded): 772 mm (30.4 in) is much more approachable and easier to remember. Normally when you (or at least I) look at a data table or a spreadsheet, the leftmost entry is the name of the whatever, and the information to the right of that is the data/specs/etc. Allow me to throw out as an example an infobox from the Honda Accord article which lists type (hatchback, sedan, etc) before length. Some guy ( talk) 09:44, 24 June 2009 (UTC)
I thought I remembered discussing this here but I guess not. Whatever. As briefly as possible:
MP5 has next to no organization. The design details section is extremely unapproachable and generally too long. The MP5 article is rated start class. By comparison the AK-47 article has more organization with better use of subsections, and no extremely detailed and long description of the mechanics involved in firing the gun. The AK-47 article has been a featured article. My point here is that articles such as the MP5 article are not well organized and need subsections, and there should be a general policy on applicable subsections under "design details". My feelings are somewhere along the lines of "features" and/or "accessories" as subsections, as well as "firing mechanism/process/whatever" if this is deemed absolutely necessary (though it seems to me it would be better to have a single article discussing, say, the typical mechanical process in firing a closed-bolt submachine gun than having a description of the process in every article that would fall into that category.
I implented some minor but (I feel) needed organization to the MP5 article which was reverted. Here is the edit if anyone feels like commenting on it. http://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Heckler_%26_Koch_MP5&diff=298456725&oldid=298449435 Some guy ( talk) 08:45, 26 June 2009 (UTC)
There are a few important changes to the popular pages system. A quick summary:
-- Mr. Z-man 23:59, 11 July 2009 (UTC)
Hi. Would someone with some expertise mind taking a look at Heckler and Koch MP9, which I've just run across? The article's unsourced and with no inbound links, and a cursory search can't immediately seem to corroborate the thing exists. I'm unclear if this is because it's an outright hoax or if it's just a matter of names getting mixed up, and the content is actually talking about something else.
Thanks all. Shimgray | talk | 08:22, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Should we add info on dissassembly of firearms to their articles if available? Cerebellum ( talk) 22:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)
Per a conversation that started here, I would like to standardize an html comment for the Users sections on all firearms articles that reads approximately:
"This section is for cited entries only. Please do not add entries into this list without a citation from a reliable source. All entries without a citation will be removed."
I would also like to know your ideas on whether it is better to remove the unsourced entries altogether or tag them as "citation needed" and give them a while. These sections are subject to driveby creep and I'm hoping to put an end to that.
Thank you, ⋙–Berean–Hunter—► ( (⊕)) 00:24, 27 July 2009 (UTC)
There is currently a discussion spanning multiple pages of the project concerning capitalizations in the titles of certain firearms. The question is whether or not pages like M3 Howitzer and M2 Mortar should be changed to "M3 howitzer" and "M2 mortar". I was hoping more project members could weigh in. The discussion can be found here. Neil Clancy 03:32, 2 August 2009 (UTC)
It seems that the force of the bullet is primarily shown in foot-pounds in cartridges when the caliber is in inches with the measurement in Joules in parenthesis. Ex: .30-06 Springfield In cartridges whose name is in mm, joules is the primary measurement. Ex: 7.62x51mm NATO It seems awfully arbitrary to assign the unit of measurement based on the cartridge's name. Could it be changed so that joules is the primary measurement for all the cartridges, with foot-pounds in parenthesis? It would make it easier to compare them if you knew that all articles had the same format in the infobox. 24.6.46.177 ( talk) 17:45, 21 July 2009 (UTC)
I noticed just now that there's no clear category shared by Jeff Cooper, Elmer Keith, Bill Jordan, Charles Askins, etc. Some of those gents aren't in any firearms-related category at all. So for the moment I categorised them as Category:People associated with firearms (which is itself not an ideal title), along with gun designers and the like. Should we have a category like Category:Gun writers and file it both under Category:People associated with firearms and Category:Writers by topic? Or does anyone have a better filing idea? In the meantime, if there are other similar figures I've missed, please put them in Category:People associated with firearms for the time being until we find a better place for writers/columnists. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 02:06, 3 August 2009 (UTC)
Currently nearly half of the entire Category:Hunting is taken up with entries for firearms cartridges. I'd argue that such a presence in the parent cat is excessive. What do y'all think more workable: 1) not have any cartridges categorised under "Hunting" at all, as a huge percentage of cartridges have been used for hunting, or 2) create a new "Hunting cartridges" or whatever-named category and dump them all in there? The current settup is really not workable, since I imagine most folks interested in hunting aren't fascinated by the minutiae of .308 Winchester vs. .307 Winchester and whatnot. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 03:00, 4 August 2009 (UTC)
Hello, I'm relatively new here, but I was interested in cleaning up Bullpup. I've got a few minor sources I've been using through a cursory book search, but I was wondering if anyone knew of more meaningful sources to use (I can send for them via my local library if needed.) I'm assuming some of the info would be in firearm configuration histories, that sort of stuff. -- Martin Raybourne ( talk) 22:31, 6 August 2009 (UTC)
I've given this a cleanup, but I don't know anything about anything when it comes to bullets and ammo. WP Firearms residents could probably easily run their magic over this (infoboxes, categories, check the name of the article, etc...) and turn this into a solid stub/article article with minimum effort. Headbomb { ταλκ κοντριβς – WP Physics} 02:20, 13 August 2009 (UTC)
Dear Wikipedia.
I am related through marriage to Joseph Manton, London gunmaker.
I noted that Wikipedia had recorded Manton's date of birth as being 1760, whereas, the
Mantom family tree (of which I have a copy) records Joseph Mantons birth date as being 1766.
Additionally, 1766 is recorded on the epitaph of his grave, stating that he died in 1835 aged 69.
I have taken the liberty and "tried" to correct his birth date on your records.
If I have failed to do so, could you please make the correction for me please.
Thanks and kind regards, Laurance A Cronin (Australia)
— Preceding unsigned comment added by 121.219.142.247 ( talk • contribs) 07:41, 27 September 2009
I can think of one disadvantage presented by double rifles. During the manufacturing process these firearms are regulated. That is to say they are sighted in using specific ammunition. Not using this ammunition may result in less than acceptable accuracy. This is not only a concern when purchasing an older rifle but even modern ammunition is sometimes changed in significant ways. I suppose there are ways around this problem but I can offer no advice. It would be very sad indeed to buy an expensive rifle only to discover you have a problem. I offer this information as food for thought and do not claim to be an expert. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 110.49.167.77 ( talk) 07:05, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
Sorry, first time contributor. Just plain forgot to sign out.
Cape fisherman 110.49.167.77 ( talk) 08:14, 10 October 2009 (UTC)
See Wikipedia talk:Naming conventions#Ammunition articles. -- JHunterJ ( talk) 13:32, 20 October 2009 (UTC)
I have nominated Jarmann M1884 for a featured article review here. Please join the discussion on whether this article meets featured article criteria. Articles are typically reviewed for two weeks. If substantial concerns are not addressed during the review period, the article will be moved to the Featured Article Removal Candidates list for a further period, where editors may declare "Keep" or "Remove" the article's featured status. The instructions for the review process are here. YellowMonkey ( bananabucket) 05:16, 21 October 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I would like to propose some changes to the Pop Culture guideline. I am concerned about the conflation of pop culture sections and trivia sections ("Avoid pop culture and trivia sections"). Yes, trivia sections are often full of pop culture information ("In the unreleased episode #473 of Cool Anime, one of the henchmen in the title montage is carrying a Desert Eagle"). However, trivia sections can also contain random factoids about variant designs, optional accessories ("ABC company in Utah makes a velcro strap for the scope...), usage by different military units ("The rearguard troops in the Ossetian 3rd Brigade carried Skorpion machine pistols in the early 1980s...")So it seems sort of like "guilt by association" to put the two terms together........As well, the next sentence sets what I argue is a too-high bar for inclusion of pop culture information ("Acceptable pop culture information should be highly notable..."). According to Wikipedia policies, I would argue that the bar is more modest: if a reputable film critic or film historian has noted (in print) the way that the use or depiction of a certain weapon (or class of weapons) in a film contributes to the aesthetic goals or style of a film then this would appear to qualify for inclusion in the article about the weapon (or the class of weapon). You have to follow WP:UNDUE, of course, and provide a reference. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 23:06, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
Avoid trivia sections, because in general they clutter articles, and contribute very little. Wikipedia is not a collection of random information.
Pop culture sections in firearm articles should not consist of a list of appearances of a certain firearm or class of firearms in films, TV shows, or comic books. Acceptable pop culture information should have a reference to a reputable source which explains the pop culture impact of the firearm in question. If a cultural reference is genuinely significant it should be possible to find a reliable secondary source that supports that judgment. Quoting a respected expert attesting to the importance of a subject as a cultural influence is encouraged. For example the Walther PPK's use by James Bond could appear in the Walther PPK article, because the use of this gun by the fictional spy been noted by a number of film critics. The pop cultural item that the firearm appeared in must represent the firearm realistically, and if named, should use the real name or a highly common nickname (e.g. Schmeisser for the MP40, or Burp gun for the PPSh-41). Speculation as to fictional appearances such as claims of a fictional gun being based on a real one should be removed in all cases as they are original research. Likewise, lists of fictional appearances should be removed as they violate WP:AVTRIV. Airsoft versions of real firearms are not notable to the firearm article. Citations are needed if the notability of an appearance of a firearm in pop culture is disputed; these citations should not be a list of appearances but should be a source actually showing increased fame or notoriety because of the appearances. See WP:MILMOS#POP for the guidelines on pop culture pertaining to military history, including military firearms. Pop culture should be treated in articles with coverage appropriate to its significance to the subject of the article; as per WP:UNDUE.
Added two new cats: Category:.25ACP firearms and Category:.32 ACP firearms. I put the "ACP" next to the number, per ".22LR" in the first cat, but does WP:GUNS prefer to separate them? In any case, it seems to me there is some utility to doing this as a cat rather than as a List. Let me know if you think more cats like this are worth exploring or no, and feel free to add to the extant categories. I may have to put the ".25ACP" one through WP:CFD to get a space put in there, though can probably do a speedy if everyone agrees there should be a space here on the discussion page. MatthewVanitas ( talk) 04:04, 27 October 2009 (UTC)
Elmer was not as involved in the .357 as the article says. P.B. Sharpe was more responsible than Elmer. The case was not as described "otherwise identical " The original cases has large primer pockets, large primers, and more metal in the case at the web than a .38 due to higher pressures of 46,900 CUP. The current .357 is 35,000 CUP, and of course small primer pocket but still more metal at the web. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.230.170.152 ( talk) 04:01, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
The original .357 cases had large primer pockets. There is more metal in the case at the web. The .38 Special came out in 1899 NOT 1902. It became smokeless in 1902.The .357 was D.B.Wesson's idea just like the .38 special, with P.B.Sharpe doing the testing and load development. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 98.230.170.152 ( talk) 19:47, 25 November 2009 (UTC)
It appears that this issue has been resolved. Can this be marked as having been completed on the TO DO list? Kartano ( talk) 00:32, 1 December 2009 (UTC)
Hi, I also have a suggestion for the improvement of the criminal use guideline. Currently, it says criminal use info must meet "some" criteria. This seeems a little vague. How about saying that.....................Criminal use sections in firearm articles should not consist of a list of uses of a certain firearm or class of firearms in the commission of various crimes. Acceptable information on criminal use of a firearm should have a reference to a reputable source which explains the impact of the firearm in question to law enforcement or criminal conduct. If a reference to criminal use of a firearm is genuinely significant it should be possible to find a reliable secondary source that supports that judgment. Quoting a respected expert or organization (e.g., the FBI) is encouraged. OnBeyondZebrax ( talk) 23:37, 6 October 2009 (UTC)
I belive that many of the articals on firearms needs a lot of improvement and insert like the page on the jackhamer i found a lot more info than what ive found
What is the consensus at the moment on creating an article relating to the AIA manufactured M10 series of rifles? These rifles are now garnerning a lot more note in shooting circles in Australia and the availability of the firearms has improved with them being obtained through multiple dealers. I don't think the company merits an article, but perhaps the rifles do? I have several magazine and print references that could be used for these now. Any comments? Kartano ( talk) 00:13, 2 December 2009 (UTC)