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Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
I've made a start at writing the main project page. It would be good if it could be fleshed out a bit more by others, as I don't want this to be a one-man show. As I see it, there are already a number of people working on entries for various towns and villages in Cheshire, as well as work on various other Cheshire-related things. If these people could list what they are working on here, then we can decide how to list them on the main page.
We want, I suggest, as many articles as possible to get to Featured article status. People might therefore also consider listing what needs to be done to achieve that aim for an article they are particularly involved in, or, at least, listing what is needed get a review of the article nearing what they think might be that status. If they can then say what help, if any, they may require to reach that status, then we should be able to see how the work in this project could pan out.
Other work, not specifically about writing complete articles, might also be of interest to people. For example, (a) converting all old-style InfoBoxes to new style ones; or (b) making sure that all towns in Cheshire have a wikipedia entry, if only a stub and an InfoBox; or (c) any others that might occur to you. These can also be listed. It might help if we listed them as separate sections here. I'll start us off, but if you have any comments or suggestions about this suggestion, then please feel free to make them. DDStretch (talk) 03:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm in the process of looking at all Cheshire towns and villages that have entries, and converting any old InfoBoxes into new ones (the ones which have Latitude and Longitude). You can an example of a new one in Haslington if you haven't seen one yet. For articles that do not have any InfoBoxes yet, but which could do, I'm creating them with as complete information as I can.
I'd welcome anyone helping by doing the same thing as I am - that way, we can finish the job more quickly. If you create an article about a town or village within Cheshire, please consider adding an InfoBox to that entry, even if you can't complete it yourself. You can ask for help here to see if people would be able to find the missing information for you. Any comments or suggestions about this? DDStretch (talk) 03:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I think this would be a good idea. There are already some sources that list the towns and villages of Cheshire, and so it would mostly be a job of going through those lists and making sure an article is present for them. If you can find no information about any settlement, then why not post a request here, and see if anyone else can assist you? As for what to put in such entries, I suggest going to WikiProject UK geography and abiding by the recommendations thay give there. Any comments or suggestions? DDStretch (talk) 03:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I have the following book, which can help to some extent, but I suspect any source will be incomplate, and so with a bit of work we could make List of Places in Cheshire as definitive a work as can be found easily on the web.
Scholes, R. (2000) Towns and villages of Britain: Cheshire. Sigma Press: Wilmslow, Cheshire. ISBN 1-85058-637-3.
It has occurred to me that we may need to make some decisions about what counts as a place. I suspect, though I haven't yet checked, WikiProject UK geography may have something of use about this potential issue. DDStretch (talk) 14:04, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
When we add stubs for or find entries for towns and villages in Cheshire, I suggest we routinely make sure that the templates given on the main project page are present. The first one goes on the talk page for the entry, and the second on the entry page itself.
DDStretch
(talk)
14:09, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Back to the maps - National Statistics website has some maps if you type in a postcode - these were the ones that I remember seeing. There is also some stuff on the Boundary Commission website. Pixie2000 22:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
There is also [1] - but perhaps you already know? Pixie2000 22:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
One thing to remember is that some parishes are composite ones and include more than one village. A good example is Odd Rode which is made up of Scholar Green, half of Mow Cop (the other half is in Staffordshire) and Rode Heath. -- Phildav76 23:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Right, how are we going to move forward on this one people? My 'struggle' is with the civil parish of Anderton with Marbury. It is in the category of Category:Villages in Cheshire, although Anderton with Marbury is a civil parish containing two villages - Anderton and Marbury. There is no separate entry for Anderton or Marbury. Anderton with Marbury does mention as a sub-heading Anderton. I guess I agree with the discussion above - either create short stub articles for individual settlements or redirection pages for them to the main civil parish entry. I guess my main issue is the 'mis-categorisation' of civil parishes as villages - do we need a new category to cope with this? Pixie2000 08:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed that there are some omissions in List of Civil Parishes in Cheshire, for example Lower Peover doesn't appear, although it does appear on the Cheshire County Council web site. So one good first task would be update List of Civil Parishes in Cheshire. I'll add in any that I can spot. Salinae 23:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
These websites will be useful Election maps Neighbourhood Statistics. Both show boundaries of parishes and the statistics site gives populations too. -- Phildav76
One possible topic would be the canal systems of Cheshire. A rough outline could be cribbed together from existing pages History of the British canal system, Trent and Mersey Canal, Shropshire Union Canal, Macclesfield Canal, Ellesmere Canal, Llangollen Canal, Chester Canal, Manchester Ship Canal, River Weaver, Rochdale Canal, Ashton Canal, Peak Forest Canal, Bridgewater Canal, Cheshire Ring etc. Salinae 23:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps we also need to consider Hundreds of Cheshire as a topic area? The History of Cheshire page lists there as being, in the end, seven: Bucklow, Eddisbury, Macclesfield, Nantwich, Northwich, and Wirral.
However, not all of these have specific Hundred pages - thoughts anyone? Pixie2000 17:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I think my edits to kettleshulme deserve a mention. I started that article and have been adding to it for a long time. JFBurton 08:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I've created a new page, which is a child-page of this one. You can see it here. I've done this to make more clear information we have about civil parishes and settlements, allowing us to see how the two lists relate to each other.
Can I ask whether as many people as are able to could spend some time filling in the blanks in this table? I've given some brief guidelines at the top of the page, and you can also see how existing entries have been done to assist you as well.
I think we need such a set of tables so that we can begin to sort out more the potentially looming confusion that could arise between civil parishes and settlements. If we are to make the administrative structure of Cheshire more transparent, we do need to address this issue, and knowing which settlements fall into which civil parishes will help us identify holes in the coverage we currently have. It will alsoprovide an update to show progress we are making on offering a comprehensive coverage of civil parishes and settlements in Cheshire. At the moment, the names for the civil parishes have not been given any special addition to indicate that they are civil parishes, but this may change in the future, depending on what we decide to do. I hope we can find time to complete this task, and I will certainly be working on it over the next few weeks, as it may take time to complete. DDStretch (talk) 02:52, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I've now created new categories for civil parishes for each district, almost, in Cheshire. I've yet to do Ellesmere Port and Neston (since it has only one parish, I think it is not necessary), and I've yet to sort out the definitive list of parishes in City of Chester (see earlier sections for problems). If what I've suggested so far about all this is largely acceptable, I think we can now formulate some guidelines about what categories and templates to include in articles about (a) civil parishes, (b) settlements, and (c) settlements that are the sole settlements of the civil parishes in which they are located. DDStretch (talk) 23:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
See also my comments in Templates above Salinae 12:37, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I note that on the Project page there is a heading for new articles (to which I have made one addition). How about significant additions to previous stubs and short articles. I have recently extended Round Tower Lodge, also Robert Spear Hudson (which may or may not be revelant - see "How far do we go?" above). Should this/these be added to "New articles"; if not, do we need a new heading? Peter I. Vardy 17:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Im going to start creating articles for
Higher Hurdsfield,
Mottram St Andrew,
Macclesfield Forest,
Pott Shrigley,
Lyme and other places in the area that I know well, if you dont mind?
JFBurton
12:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Members of the project might like to know that I have just received this message:
so it was worth having a go! Peter I. Vardy 16:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
What is that all about?
JFBurton
16:30, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I have started the Mottram St. Andrew and Pott Shrigley pages now. Im hoping to bring them up to the same standards as Kettleshulme in the near future. JFBurton 19:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I have put some of the Cheshire footpaths I can find into this new category as a pre-cursor to this "topic" area that is down to be done. I was thinking that, for a main article, we may well need something of the style of Recreational_walks_in_East_Sussex, but anyone else got an opinion?
I also have a mind to show the footpaths, or at least the main ones, on a map. Pixie2000 21:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Pixie2000 21:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I live near there and it isnt in Cheshire. Its in Greater Manchester. JFBurton 12:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I have created the article here and added a couple of links from the other pages. It is a start! Pixie2000 22:20, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
To my amazement I received this message today:
So a Cheshire article in the WikiProject Cheshire hits the main page again. It's all because of the encouragement given by DDStretch (talk). Thanks for the suggestion. It's well worth a go! (And there's one more in the pipeline which I think is the best - so it probably won't feature.) Peter I. Vardy 09:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I noted that the Cornwall project / portal has a List_of_topics_related_to_Cornwall article. It seems a good style of article to act as a "content page" into 'our' pages rather than just randomly coming across them. Perhaps we should have one too? Pixie2000 22:27, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
See section 24 about a Cheshire portal I have now started up. DDStretch (talk) 16:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry I haven't pitched in more yet. Thought I would get started on creating categories for each individual district (as an example see Category:Kent, Category:Staffordshire and so on. Will try and start these at the weekend. Regan123 23:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
OK. The change has been made to the England people template, so if no one objects I will start on this by the 3rd Feb. Apologies for the delay, but I am in the middle of Sorting Sussex out into cats and don't want to leave a half done job behind! Cheers, -- Regan123 13:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I've edited the project page a bit. What do people think of it? I've tried to make the progress towards Featured Status a bit more explicit. And, because of that, at some stage we may be advised to start a system of reviewing and assessing articles for quality (see Template:WikiProject Wales for an example of what the template on the talk page could change into). DDStretch (talk) 23:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
If we ignore for the moment the case of Warrington, Halton, and Ellesmere Port and Neston, then I discovered a slight complication when I checked and tried to sort out some issues to do with the civil parishes within the different boroughs. It initially began with City of Chester, which has numerous extremely small civil parishes, it appears. Then I discovered the same problem with parishes within the Boroughs of Congleton, Macclesfield, and Crewe and Nantwich. I am satisfied I know the situation for Congleton and Crewe and Nantwich now, after a series of emails and phone calls to their respective council offices, but I have a view from Macclesfield that doesn't fit in with other information from, say, Ordnance Survey, the Office for National Statistics, and Cheshire County Council (so it is still being worked on by myself, and, now the inconsistency has been drawn to their attention, by some people within Macclesfield Council). As yet, I have heard nothing from City of Chester council, which is a shame, since the problem there has some features unique to it, and so I cannot make any informed guess as to what is going on there yet.
Basically, the problem is that, from the point of view of parish councils, some civil parishes do not effectively exist independently anymore. They have not merged, and yet they share a parish council with one and sometimes a few more adjacent civil parishes. This is not the same as the situation where a civil parish has "parish wards" which have a certain number of parish councillors allocated to them.
For example, Haslington civil parish has three parish wards: Haslington Village, Oakhanger, and Winterley. These correspond to the three largest settlements within that civil parish. However, they are officially still parish wards. So, the two civil parishes of "Newbold Astbury" and "Moreton cum Alcumlow" in Borough of Congleton have a joint parish council, which is called the "Newbold Astbury-cum-Moreton Parish Council". Similarly, the two civil parishes also in Congleton borough, of "Hulme Walfield" and "Somerford Booths" have a joint parish council named "Hulme Walfield and Somerford Booths". I was told by a representative from Congleton that these are all still distinct parishes and not parish wards, and that they have had these joint parish councils for a "large number of years". There are numerous examples of this in the Borough of Crewe and Nantwich. For example, "Doddington and District Parish Council" covers the parishes of Blakenhall, Bridgemere, Checkley cum Wrinehill, Doddington, Lea, and Hunsterston (6 in all). Furthermore, "Minshull Vernon and District" covers Leighton, Minshull Vernon, and Woolstanwood. This last example illustrates that these parishes are not the same as parish wards, since Leighton has two parish wards: "Leighton Urban" and "Leighton Rural". Getting on for half the civil parishes in this borough hold joint parish council meetings with one or more other civil parishes. Crewe and Nantwich sent me part of their handbook which described all the parishes including who if any they were joined with, together with the joint parish council names. Incidentally, they had made two minor errors in mistaking the parish wards of two civil parishes as being separate civil parishes. They were happy to be able to clarify and correct these when I questioned them about the problems.
The case of Macclesfield is more uncertain, as the person I spoke to at first told me that the civil parishes I enquired about were just parish wards: On their account, "Tabley Parish" consists of two parish wards: Tabley Inferior and Tabley Superior; similarly, "Plumley with Toft and Bexton", they said, had three wards: Plumley, Toft, and Bexton; and "Ollerton with Marthall", they said, had two. However, I pointed out that the most recent Ordnance Survey Maps, and the Office for National Statistics. in their maps and in their published tables of census information, all had them down as separate parishes and, furthermore, they didn't treat parish wards in the same way. So, on the basis of Congleton and Crewe and Nantwich, I said that I suspected that they were still parishes. This will be looked into more, as the council employee who should know the actual state of affairs is away on leave at the moment. I don't think they can have been abolished or merged, since this requires action by the Secretary of State and, possibly, the Electoral Commission, and I can find no evidence that this has been sought or an order has been issueed to abolish them.
The situation of the City of Chester is that even more small civil parishes have joint parish council meetings with adjacent parishes; and some exteremely small civil parishes (in the south of the borough) have joint parish meetings with adjacent civil parishes. However, some parishes appear neither to elect parish councils nor to hold parish meetings. Nevertheless, they still appear on the Ordnance Survey maps, and the Office for National Statistics with census data for population, etc. Unfortunately for us, some neither have parish councils nor hold parish meetings, and, although they appear on the most recent Ordnance survey maps, etc, they do not appear to exist according the to Office for National Statistics, but they do, according to the Boundary Commission's latest, (2002), review. If you look at the 1:25000 Ordnance Survey maps, they seem to exist and have buildings on them consistent with people living there, and so this needs to be sorted out. If a civil parish exists, but the population is so small as to make a council or meeting unfeasible, then the borough council has to take over the duties normally held by a parish council or meeting (you can read about this in various places, such as NALG.
The particular problem in all this is what do we use as the basis for articles about civil parishes? On the one hand, we should perhaps take the existing civil parishes as the basis, and by some combination of mentioning it in those articles and linking, show how they relate to other civil parishes by holding joint parish council meetings. On the other hand, may be we should pay more attention to the hierarchy we are trying to make clear to people, and write articles based around the parish councils, with sections in there for the separate civil parishes that have joined together.
My own favoured solution is to take the second option. This would mean a more clear separation becomes necessary between civil parishes and settlements, but it would make the hierarchical structure of local government more clear, prepare the way if these joint parish councils are going to be merged in some way after a review that I know is currently underway about local government in Cheshire, and it would make certain other administrative jobs for us potentially easier (thumbnail maps, for example). Luckily, Vale Royal has not suffered from this problem and so User:Pixie2000 has not had to delay the work already done there, nor have to redo any work already done. So, shall I just go ahead and implement my own favoured solution?
Incidentally, I suspect this issue may not be restricted to Cheshire, but I don't know if anyone writing about local government in other counties is aware of it. The whole depth of the issue of civil parishes and the logical distinction between them and settlements does not seem to have been realised, except perhaps to some extent in the Cornwall project. I somehow feel the twists I have written about here and in other sections here could do with being better known on wikipedia, but where? DDStretch (talk) 02:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Started the Tytherington High School page today. JFBurton 22:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for adding those templates. JFBurton 19:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I've just started a Cheshire Portal. You can see the skeleton here. You can type Portal:Cheshire in the Find Box to go to it. If we can start to fill in bits and pieces of it, I think we should begin to have a centralised source of all things related to Cheshire quite quickly. I've listed it in the Portal Directory, where I've put myself down as the creator, and the project as the Maintainer. I hope that is all right with people. I've also put entries in the Community Bulletin Board which announces the two projects and invites new people to contribute to them.
To expand the entries in the Portal, I suggest people might like to look at Wikipedia:Portal/Instructions, where I have arrived at step 7 of section 1. I have, however, changed the default colours round a bit, but perhaps people have a view about whether these should be changed, and I've also started to edit a few of the boxes. If you are able to contribute, let's try to get this filled out a bit more. I suggest that only the highest rated articles get mentioned in the portal, which means we may have to tackle the issue of peer review and assessment soon. DDStretch (talk) 16:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)#
Thanks to all the people who have contributed to this. I also think it is beginning to look good. There are two "boxes" that still need some content, and I'm not sure what to do about them. Does anyone have any suggestions about what the "selected article" could be? perhaps one on Salt Mining, or something else? Also there is a box dealing with "Cheshire news", but I'm not sure how to easily get any content for that. Can anyone suggest anything here? If not, we could always get rid of that box, but it might make the two columns of boxes even more unbalanced. The box was automatically added when I followed the automated steps for creating a basic portal, so there's nothing sacred about it, and we could have a different one. If so, any suggestions? Once we have all the boxes filled, we can move its status from that of it being set up, to that of it being finished and able to "go live".
I've also been adding a link to the Cheshire portal to various templates, which I hope is all right by people, though if there is a better way of doing it, please substitute mine with the better way. DDStretch (talk) 19:07, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
It's getting embarrassing...I thought I might get one...but three!
Congratulations DDStretch (talk) on setting up the portal. I just wonder if the Thomas Brassey article is worth getting assessed and working up. He was a Cestrian who achieved amazing things but is virtually unknown and unacknowledged - and his activities covered not just Great Britain but many parts of the world. What do people think? Incidentally, how did the info about him get on the portal before I told anyone else? Peter I. Vardy 17:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I discovered a redirect about Woodhey which went from Woodhey, Cheshire. The actual article at fiest claimed it was a town in Cheshire, but it is now a suburb of Bebington (which took a bit of tracking down). I removed all the incorrect information from the entry, and thought that the redirect required some attention. There is now no settlement in Cheshire called Woodhey, though there is a Woodhey Hall, and an extremely small hamlet nearby it (no more than about 3 houses) called Woodhey Green, about 8km west of Nantwich. Multimap doesn't find either, but streetmap does, though you can obviously find them both on multimap. I decided the the redirect could be considered for deletion, because as it stands it is simply quite misleading, and so I proposed it here. When I proposed it, I hadn't found the two small places I've just mentioned. It appears that two separate people argue that it should be retained, one on the grounds that it used to be in Cheshire, and the other also mentions that there are other wrong redirects on wikipedia, and so its incorrect status is not particularly a bad point. If it is retained, I am considering changing the redirect to point to an entry about Faddiley civil parish (within City of Chester borough) which I will make sure mentions Woodhey Green and Woodhey House. I'd welcome comments about (a) my proposed deletion request for the redirect, and (b) what I am considering doing if the deletion request fails. I do think the redirect needs somes erious attention, as Woodhey itself is just a suburb of Bebington now. Firthermore, what do we do if we discover other rediects that are now similarly incorrect? Thanks. DDStretch (talk) 11:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I started the Macclesfield Forest and Wildboarclough article and then realised there was also an article for Wildboarclough. Shall I keep the article or delete it? JFBurton 20:17, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I've today created an article about the Chester Shot Tower, which is probably the oldest such building in the world. I think it might be the kind of topic that's interesting for DYK, but looking at the comments there, it seems to be rather shorter than the moderators seem to go for. Does anyone know anything about the structure, or have any printed references on shot towers? Espresso Addict 15:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
This has been successful as a DYK today and also placed on our project page. But it's not in Cheshire. Should it be deleted? Peter I. Vardy 18:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Quality assessments are used by Wikipedia editors to rate the quality of articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at
Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent
Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class=
parameter to {{
WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.
No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{ WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.
However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{
WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom
parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present.
Aymatth2 (
talk)
13:21, 10 April 2023 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
I've made a start at writing the main project page. It would be good if it could be fleshed out a bit more by others, as I don't want this to be a one-man show. As I see it, there are already a number of people working on entries for various towns and villages in Cheshire, as well as work on various other Cheshire-related things. If these people could list what they are working on here, then we can decide how to list them on the main page.
We want, I suggest, as many articles as possible to get to Featured article status. People might therefore also consider listing what needs to be done to achieve that aim for an article they are particularly involved in, or, at least, listing what is needed get a review of the article nearing what they think might be that status. If they can then say what help, if any, they may require to reach that status, then we should be able to see how the work in this project could pan out.
Other work, not specifically about writing complete articles, might also be of interest to people. For example, (a) converting all old-style InfoBoxes to new style ones; or (b) making sure that all towns in Cheshire have a wikipedia entry, if only a stub and an InfoBox; or (c) any others that might occur to you. These can also be listed. It might help if we listed them as separate sections here. I'll start us off, but if you have any comments or suggestions about this suggestion, then please feel free to make them. DDStretch (talk) 03:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I'm in the process of looking at all Cheshire towns and villages that have entries, and converting any old InfoBoxes into new ones (the ones which have Latitude and Longitude). You can an example of a new one in Haslington if you haven't seen one yet. For articles that do not have any InfoBoxes yet, but which could do, I'm creating them with as complete information as I can.
I'd welcome anyone helping by doing the same thing as I am - that way, we can finish the job more quickly. If you create an article about a town or village within Cheshire, please consider adding an InfoBox to that entry, even if you can't complete it yourself. You can ask for help here to see if people would be able to find the missing information for you. Any comments or suggestions about this? DDStretch (talk) 03:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I think this would be a good idea. There are already some sources that list the towns and villages of Cheshire, and so it would mostly be a job of going through those lists and making sure an article is present for them. If you can find no information about any settlement, then why not post a request here, and see if anyone else can assist you? As for what to put in such entries, I suggest going to WikiProject UK geography and abiding by the recommendations thay give there. Any comments or suggestions? DDStretch (talk) 03:28, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
I have the following book, which can help to some extent, but I suspect any source will be incomplate, and so with a bit of work we could make List of Places in Cheshire as definitive a work as can be found easily on the web.
Scholes, R. (2000) Towns and villages of Britain: Cheshire. Sigma Press: Wilmslow, Cheshire. ISBN 1-85058-637-3.
It has occurred to me that we may need to make some decisions about what counts as a place. I suspect, though I haven't yet checked, WikiProject UK geography may have something of use about this potential issue. DDStretch (talk) 14:04, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
When we add stubs for or find entries for towns and villages in Cheshire, I suggest we routinely make sure that the templates given on the main project page are present. The first one goes on the talk page for the entry, and the second on the entry page itself.
DDStretch
(talk)
14:09, 31 December 2006 (UTC)
Back to the maps - National Statistics website has some maps if you type in a postcode - these were the ones that I remember seeing. There is also some stuff on the Boundary Commission website. Pixie2000 22:35, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
There is also [1] - but perhaps you already know? Pixie2000 22:38, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
One thing to remember is that some parishes are composite ones and include more than one village. A good example is Odd Rode which is made up of Scholar Green, half of Mow Cop (the other half is in Staffordshire) and Rode Heath. -- Phildav76 23:11, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Right, how are we going to move forward on this one people? My 'struggle' is with the civil parish of Anderton with Marbury. It is in the category of Category:Villages in Cheshire, although Anderton with Marbury is a civil parish containing two villages - Anderton and Marbury. There is no separate entry for Anderton or Marbury. Anderton with Marbury does mention as a sub-heading Anderton. I guess I agree with the discussion above - either create short stub articles for individual settlements or redirection pages for them to the main civil parish entry. I guess my main issue is the 'mis-categorisation' of civil parishes as villages - do we need a new category to cope with this? Pixie2000 08:52, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I've noticed that there are some omissions in List of Civil Parishes in Cheshire, for example Lower Peover doesn't appear, although it does appear on the Cheshire County Council web site. So one good first task would be update List of Civil Parishes in Cheshire. I'll add in any that I can spot. Salinae 23:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
These websites will be useful Election maps Neighbourhood Statistics. Both show boundaries of parishes and the statistics site gives populations too. -- Phildav76
One possible topic would be the canal systems of Cheshire. A rough outline could be cribbed together from existing pages History of the British canal system, Trent and Mersey Canal, Shropshire Union Canal, Macclesfield Canal, Ellesmere Canal, Llangollen Canal, Chester Canal, Manchester Ship Canal, River Weaver, Rochdale Canal, Ashton Canal, Peak Forest Canal, Bridgewater Canal, Cheshire Ring etc. Salinae 23:34, 2 January 2007 (UTC)
Perhaps we also need to consider Hundreds of Cheshire as a topic area? The History of Cheshire page lists there as being, in the end, seven: Bucklow, Eddisbury, Macclesfield, Nantwich, Northwich, and Wirral.
However, not all of these have specific Hundred pages - thoughts anyone? Pixie2000 17:34, 3 January 2007 (UTC)
I think my edits to kettleshulme deserve a mention. I started that article and have been adding to it for a long time. JFBurton 08:29, 17 January 2007 (UTC)
I've created a new page, which is a child-page of this one. You can see it here. I've done this to make more clear information we have about civil parishes and settlements, allowing us to see how the two lists relate to each other.
Can I ask whether as many people as are able to could spend some time filling in the blanks in this table? I've given some brief guidelines at the top of the page, and you can also see how existing entries have been done to assist you as well.
I think we need such a set of tables so that we can begin to sort out more the potentially looming confusion that could arise between civil parishes and settlements. If we are to make the administrative structure of Cheshire more transparent, we do need to address this issue, and knowing which settlements fall into which civil parishes will help us identify holes in the coverage we currently have. It will alsoprovide an update to show progress we are making on offering a comprehensive coverage of civil parishes and settlements in Cheshire. At the moment, the names for the civil parishes have not been given any special addition to indicate that they are civil parishes, but this may change in the future, depending on what we decide to do. I hope we can find time to complete this task, and I will certainly be working on it over the next few weeks, as it may take time to complete. DDStretch (talk) 02:52, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
I've now created new categories for civil parishes for each district, almost, in Cheshire. I've yet to do Ellesmere Port and Neston (since it has only one parish, I think it is not necessary), and I've yet to sort out the definitive list of parishes in City of Chester (see earlier sections for problems). If what I've suggested so far about all this is largely acceptable, I think we can now formulate some guidelines about what categories and templates to include in articles about (a) civil parishes, (b) settlements, and (c) settlements that are the sole settlements of the civil parishes in which they are located. DDStretch (talk) 23:56, 18 January 2007 (UTC)
See also my comments in Templates above Salinae 12:37, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
I note that on the Project page there is a heading for new articles (to which I have made one addition). How about significant additions to previous stubs and short articles. I have recently extended Round Tower Lodge, also Robert Spear Hudson (which may or may not be revelant - see "How far do we go?" above). Should this/these be added to "New articles"; if not, do we need a new heading? Peter I. Vardy 17:38, 19 January 2007 (UTC)
Im going to start creating articles for
Higher Hurdsfield,
Mottram St Andrew,
Macclesfield Forest,
Pott Shrigley,
Lyme and other places in the area that I know well, if you dont mind?
JFBurton
12:49, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Members of the project might like to know that I have just received this message:
so it was worth having a go! Peter I. Vardy 16:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
What is that all about?
JFBurton
16:30, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I have started the Mottram St. Andrew and Pott Shrigley pages now. Im hoping to bring them up to the same standards as Kettleshulme in the near future. JFBurton 19:09, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I have put some of the Cheshire footpaths I can find into this new category as a pre-cursor to this "topic" area that is down to be done. I was thinking that, for a main article, we may well need something of the style of Recreational_walks_in_East_Sussex, but anyone else got an opinion?
I also have a mind to show the footpaths, or at least the main ones, on a map. Pixie2000 21:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
Pixie2000 21:55, 24 January 2007 (UTC)
I live near there and it isnt in Cheshire. Its in Greater Manchester. JFBurton 12:43, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I have created the article here and added a couple of links from the other pages. It is a start! Pixie2000 22:20, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
To my amazement I received this message today:
So a Cheshire article in the WikiProject Cheshire hits the main page again. It's all because of the encouragement given by DDStretch (talk). Thanks for the suggestion. It's well worth a go! (And there's one more in the pipeline which I think is the best - so it probably won't feature.) Peter I. Vardy 09:13, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
I noted that the Cornwall project / portal has a List_of_topics_related_to_Cornwall article. It seems a good style of article to act as a "content page" into 'our' pages rather than just randomly coming across them. Perhaps we should have one too? Pixie2000 22:27, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
See section 24 about a Cheshire portal I have now started up. DDStretch (talk) 16:32, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
Sorry I haven't pitched in more yet. Thought I would get started on creating categories for each individual district (as an example see Category:Kent, Category:Staffordshire and so on. Will try and start these at the weekend. Regan123 23:44, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
OK. The change has been made to the England people template, so if no one objects I will start on this by the 3rd Feb. Apologies for the delay, but I am in the middle of Sorting Sussex out into cats and don't want to leave a half done job behind! Cheers, -- Regan123 13:43, 29 January 2007 (UTC)
I've edited the project page a bit. What do people think of it? I've tried to make the progress towards Featured Status a bit more explicit. And, because of that, at some stage we may be advised to start a system of reviewing and assessing articles for quality (see Template:WikiProject Wales for an example of what the template on the talk page could change into). DDStretch (talk) 23:52, 25 January 2007 (UTC)
If we ignore for the moment the case of Warrington, Halton, and Ellesmere Port and Neston, then I discovered a slight complication when I checked and tried to sort out some issues to do with the civil parishes within the different boroughs. It initially began with City of Chester, which has numerous extremely small civil parishes, it appears. Then I discovered the same problem with parishes within the Boroughs of Congleton, Macclesfield, and Crewe and Nantwich. I am satisfied I know the situation for Congleton and Crewe and Nantwich now, after a series of emails and phone calls to their respective council offices, but I have a view from Macclesfield that doesn't fit in with other information from, say, Ordnance Survey, the Office for National Statistics, and Cheshire County Council (so it is still being worked on by myself, and, now the inconsistency has been drawn to their attention, by some people within Macclesfield Council). As yet, I have heard nothing from City of Chester council, which is a shame, since the problem there has some features unique to it, and so I cannot make any informed guess as to what is going on there yet.
Basically, the problem is that, from the point of view of parish councils, some civil parishes do not effectively exist independently anymore. They have not merged, and yet they share a parish council with one and sometimes a few more adjacent civil parishes. This is not the same as the situation where a civil parish has "parish wards" which have a certain number of parish councillors allocated to them.
For example, Haslington civil parish has three parish wards: Haslington Village, Oakhanger, and Winterley. These correspond to the three largest settlements within that civil parish. However, they are officially still parish wards. So, the two civil parishes of "Newbold Astbury" and "Moreton cum Alcumlow" in Borough of Congleton have a joint parish council, which is called the "Newbold Astbury-cum-Moreton Parish Council". Similarly, the two civil parishes also in Congleton borough, of "Hulme Walfield" and "Somerford Booths" have a joint parish council named "Hulme Walfield and Somerford Booths". I was told by a representative from Congleton that these are all still distinct parishes and not parish wards, and that they have had these joint parish councils for a "large number of years". There are numerous examples of this in the Borough of Crewe and Nantwich. For example, "Doddington and District Parish Council" covers the parishes of Blakenhall, Bridgemere, Checkley cum Wrinehill, Doddington, Lea, and Hunsterston (6 in all). Furthermore, "Minshull Vernon and District" covers Leighton, Minshull Vernon, and Woolstanwood. This last example illustrates that these parishes are not the same as parish wards, since Leighton has two parish wards: "Leighton Urban" and "Leighton Rural". Getting on for half the civil parishes in this borough hold joint parish council meetings with one or more other civil parishes. Crewe and Nantwich sent me part of their handbook which described all the parishes including who if any they were joined with, together with the joint parish council names. Incidentally, they had made two minor errors in mistaking the parish wards of two civil parishes as being separate civil parishes. They were happy to be able to clarify and correct these when I questioned them about the problems.
The case of Macclesfield is more uncertain, as the person I spoke to at first told me that the civil parishes I enquired about were just parish wards: On their account, "Tabley Parish" consists of two parish wards: Tabley Inferior and Tabley Superior; similarly, "Plumley with Toft and Bexton", they said, had three wards: Plumley, Toft, and Bexton; and "Ollerton with Marthall", they said, had two. However, I pointed out that the most recent Ordnance Survey Maps, and the Office for National Statistics. in their maps and in their published tables of census information, all had them down as separate parishes and, furthermore, they didn't treat parish wards in the same way. So, on the basis of Congleton and Crewe and Nantwich, I said that I suspected that they were still parishes. This will be looked into more, as the council employee who should know the actual state of affairs is away on leave at the moment. I don't think they can have been abolished or merged, since this requires action by the Secretary of State and, possibly, the Electoral Commission, and I can find no evidence that this has been sought or an order has been issueed to abolish them.
The situation of the City of Chester is that even more small civil parishes have joint parish council meetings with adjacent parishes; and some exteremely small civil parishes (in the south of the borough) have joint parish meetings with adjacent civil parishes. However, some parishes appear neither to elect parish councils nor to hold parish meetings. Nevertheless, they still appear on the Ordnance Survey maps, and the Office for National Statistics with census data for population, etc. Unfortunately for us, some neither have parish councils nor hold parish meetings, and, although they appear on the most recent Ordnance survey maps, etc, they do not appear to exist according the to Office for National Statistics, but they do, according to the Boundary Commission's latest, (2002), review. If you look at the 1:25000 Ordnance Survey maps, they seem to exist and have buildings on them consistent with people living there, and so this needs to be sorted out. If a civil parish exists, but the population is so small as to make a council or meeting unfeasible, then the borough council has to take over the duties normally held by a parish council or meeting (you can read about this in various places, such as NALG.
The particular problem in all this is what do we use as the basis for articles about civil parishes? On the one hand, we should perhaps take the existing civil parishes as the basis, and by some combination of mentioning it in those articles and linking, show how they relate to other civil parishes by holding joint parish council meetings. On the other hand, may be we should pay more attention to the hierarchy we are trying to make clear to people, and write articles based around the parish councils, with sections in there for the separate civil parishes that have joined together.
My own favoured solution is to take the second option. This would mean a more clear separation becomes necessary between civil parishes and settlements, but it would make the hierarchical structure of local government more clear, prepare the way if these joint parish councils are going to be merged in some way after a review that I know is currently underway about local government in Cheshire, and it would make certain other administrative jobs for us potentially easier (thumbnail maps, for example). Luckily, Vale Royal has not suffered from this problem and so User:Pixie2000 has not had to delay the work already done there, nor have to redo any work already done. So, shall I just go ahead and implement my own favoured solution?
Incidentally, I suspect this issue may not be restricted to Cheshire, but I don't know if anyone writing about local government in other counties is aware of it. The whole depth of the issue of civil parishes and the logical distinction between them and settlements does not seem to have been realised, except perhaps to some extent in the Cornwall project. I somehow feel the twists I have written about here and in other sections here could do with being better known on wikipedia, but where? DDStretch (talk) 02:04, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Started the Tytherington High School page today. JFBurton 22:07, 26 January 2007 (UTC)
Thanks for adding those templates. JFBurton 19:29, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I've just started a Cheshire Portal. You can see the skeleton here. You can type Portal:Cheshire in the Find Box to go to it. If we can start to fill in bits and pieces of it, I think we should begin to have a centralised source of all things related to Cheshire quite quickly. I've listed it in the Portal Directory, where I've put myself down as the creator, and the project as the Maintainer. I hope that is all right with people. I've also put entries in the Community Bulletin Board which announces the two projects and invites new people to contribute to them.
To expand the entries in the Portal, I suggest people might like to look at Wikipedia:Portal/Instructions, where I have arrived at step 7 of section 1. I have, however, changed the default colours round a bit, but perhaps people have a view about whether these should be changed, and I've also started to edit a few of the boxes. If you are able to contribute, let's try to get this filled out a bit more. I suggest that only the highest rated articles get mentioned in the portal, which means we may have to tackle the issue of peer review and assessment soon. DDStretch (talk) 16:55, 27 January 2007 (UTC)#
Thanks to all the people who have contributed to this. I also think it is beginning to look good. There are two "boxes" that still need some content, and I'm not sure what to do about them. Does anyone have any suggestions about what the "selected article" could be? perhaps one on Salt Mining, or something else? Also there is a box dealing with "Cheshire news", but I'm not sure how to easily get any content for that. Can anyone suggest anything here? If not, we could always get rid of that box, but it might make the two columns of boxes even more unbalanced. The box was automatically added when I followed the automated steps for creating a basic portal, so there's nothing sacred about it, and we could have a different one. If so, any suggestions? Once we have all the boxes filled, we can move its status from that of it being set up, to that of it being finished and able to "go live".
I've also been adding a link to the Cheshire portal to various templates, which I hope is all right by people, though if there is a better way of doing it, please substitute mine with the better way. DDStretch (talk) 19:07, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
It's getting embarrassing...I thought I might get one...but three!
Congratulations DDStretch (talk) on setting up the portal. I just wonder if the Thomas Brassey article is worth getting assessed and working up. He was a Cestrian who achieved amazing things but is virtually unknown and unacknowledged - and his activities covered not just Great Britain but many parts of the world. What do people think? Incidentally, how did the info about him get on the portal before I told anyone else? Peter I. Vardy 17:26, 27 January 2007 (UTC)
I discovered a redirect about Woodhey which went from Woodhey, Cheshire. The actual article at fiest claimed it was a town in Cheshire, but it is now a suburb of Bebington (which took a bit of tracking down). I removed all the incorrect information from the entry, and thought that the redirect required some attention. There is now no settlement in Cheshire called Woodhey, though there is a Woodhey Hall, and an extremely small hamlet nearby it (no more than about 3 houses) called Woodhey Green, about 8km west of Nantwich. Multimap doesn't find either, but streetmap does, though you can obviously find them both on multimap. I decided the the redirect could be considered for deletion, because as it stands it is simply quite misleading, and so I proposed it here. When I proposed it, I hadn't found the two small places I've just mentioned. It appears that two separate people argue that it should be retained, one on the grounds that it used to be in Cheshire, and the other also mentions that there are other wrong redirects on wikipedia, and so its incorrect status is not particularly a bad point. If it is retained, I am considering changing the redirect to point to an entry about Faddiley civil parish (within City of Chester borough) which I will make sure mentions Woodhey Green and Woodhey House. I'd welcome comments about (a) my proposed deletion request for the redirect, and (b) what I am considering doing if the deletion request fails. I do think the redirect needs somes erious attention, as Woodhey itself is just a suburb of Bebington now. Firthermore, what do we do if we discover other rediects that are now similarly incorrect? Thanks. DDStretch (talk) 11:20, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I started the Macclesfield Forest and Wildboarclough article and then realised there was also an article for Wildboarclough. Shall I keep the article or delete it? JFBurton 20:17, 28 January 2007 (UTC)
I've today created an article about the Chester Shot Tower, which is probably the oldest such building in the world. I think it might be the kind of topic that's interesting for DYK, but looking at the comments there, it seems to be rather shorter than the moderators seem to go for. Does anyone know anything about the structure, or have any printed references on shot towers? Espresso Addict 15:38, 5 February 2007 (UTC)
This has been successful as a DYK today and also placed on our project page. But it's not in Cheshire. Should it be deleted? Peter I. Vardy 18:28, 14 February 2007 (UTC)
Quality assessments are used by Wikipedia editors to rate the quality of articles in terms of completeness, organization, prose quality, sourcing, etc. Most wikiprojects follow the general guidelines at
Wikipedia:Content assessment, but some have specialized assessment guidelines. A recent
Village pump proposal was approved and has been implemented to add a |class=
parameter to {{
WikiProject banner shell}}, which can display a general quality assessment for an article, and to let project banner templates "inherit" this assessment.
No action is required if your wikiproject follows the standard assessment approach. Over time, quality assessments will be migrated up to {{ WikiProject banner shell}}, and your project banner will automatically "inherit" any changes to the general assessments for the purpose of assigning categories.
However, if your project has decided to "opt out" and follow a non-standard quality assessment approach, all you have to do is modify your wikiproject banner template to pass {{
WPBannerMeta}} a new |QUALITY_CRITERIA=custom
parameter. If this is done, changes to the general quality assessment will be ignored, and your project-level assessment will be displayed and used to create categories, as at present.
Aymatth2 (
talk)
13:21, 10 April 2023 (UTC)