![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Eventually, we should come up with some nice format for articles about chemical compounds. Right now, I like caffeine: a picture of the 3-d structure, a picture of the chemical structure, the chemical formula and the correct name. Maybe the CAS number should be added for completeness. I know that 3-d structure images can be produced with the program rasmol. Does anyone know a nice program for producing the 2-d structure formulas? Right now, I use JChemPaint and I don't like it. AxelBoldt 03:36 Dec 17, 2002 (UTC)
The 3D picture on caffeine is way too dark -- I can't see much at all on my monitor. A lighter background would be better -- grey, or the same shade of cream as the 2D diagram. -- Tarquin (but apart fomr that, caffeine is good. I've been editing articles on compounds to open with:
to establish context.
On second thoughts, I think I prefer:
Discussion of the table for inorganic compounds given at Inorganic table information should probably take place here... AxelBoldt 23:04 22 May 2003 (UTC)
Has any consensus been reached on how to name articles describing chemical compounds. Obviously, there are cases where the systematic name for the compound is not the appropriate name for the article. An extreme example would be water. And since the sort of chemicals that are of sufficient industrial, historical, or pharmacological importance to merit articles are exactly the sort of compounds likely to be better-known known by a common name than their systematic one, I guess, how should we decide? Take the Google poll? Use whatever comes first in a standard reference like the Merck index? Any other thoughts? Shimmin 04:14, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Can anyone recommend a decent free program that draws chemical structures. One that's not too hard and runs under Windows or Linux would be great. ThereIsNoSteve 05:29, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Unless anyone objects, the standard wikipedia symbol for equilibrium will be ↔, until someone fixes this problem. Resonance will need another symbol.
Other options that shouldn't be used for equilibrium are:
The current wikipedia software simply doesn't work for chemistry. Until better software is created, chemistry will not be worth adding to wikipedia. Bensaccount 20:38, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Given the vast number of chemical compounds I think it would be a good idea to create some kind of standard tutorial for how to create chemical diagrams and how to export them to wikipedia. Either that or have everyone just use IUPAC.
Also, I want to copy a visualization of a protein made with VMD here. Is there a standard program for visualizations, and how do copyrights work on them? Bensaccount 22:30, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
There has been a long discussion on the mailing list about the use of SMILES [1] notation for creating chemistry diagrams. SMILES notation is compact, well-documented, there are multiple tools for it, both Free/Open Source and proprietary. However, it needs the political and programming will for someone to add an extension to MediaWiki that will integrate these tools so we can write (for example) [[SMILES:c1ccccc1[N+](=O)[O-]|right|frame|nitrobenzene]] and get the expected result: a nice automatically generated chemical diagram of nitrobenzene as a PNG, in a frame with a caption. -- The Anome 15:27, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have just listed the following articles on Wikipedia:Copyright problems:
Unless new stubs or articles are created at Calcium peroxide/Temp, Potassium monopersulfate/Temp, Magnesium peroxide/Temp and/or Sodium perborate monohydrate/Temp within a week or so, they will be deleted. Securiger 09:39, 5 May 2004 (UTC)
{{SampleWikiProject}}
I've been having thoughts about the balance between providing data and cluttering the page. A minimalist approach to the sidebar would be basic identification info (name, formula/structure, synonyms, CAS), and then external links to an MSDS and the NIST properties database. The next data to include would be the most useful basic properties (formula weight, phase transition temperatures, density). Some articles also feature some thermochemical data, and acid/base dissociation constants if applicable. One could also include stuff like index of refraction, dielectric constant, surface tension, etc...) but at some point, the properties sidebar gets to be longer than the text of the article, and the whole thing seems a bit silly.
Any thoughts on where to draw the line? Shimmin 14:46, 6 May 2004 (UTC)
I just put a reference to the Chemistry WikiProject on the
Chemistry wikipage, which was rather quickly reverted by
User:Darrien stating that selfreferencing should be avoided. The proper linking to a WikiProject should be on a Discussion page (see above), but how do we think about putting a wikilink to the project on a wikipage?
Wim van Dorst 19:23, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)
Do want a since colour/layout for the three project templates, perhaps also applicable to the colour/layouts of the chemical infoboxes and other things for the Chemistry projects. Wim van Dorst 20:33, 2005 Apr 12 (UTC).
I've created a WikiProject Rocks and Minerals for anyone who'd like to join and comment. Tried to use compound table as a start but I think there are differences in the kinds of appropriate info. Comments welcome. Elf 21:29, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (chemistry), where I'm asking for guidance on policy for capitalization of chemical names. -- The Anome 12:28, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I hope to standardize the templates and tables by May 7, 2005. Anyone willing to work on this with me, even for a short time is greatly appreciated. It's the difference between getting this done in five months instead of three years. oo64eva (AJ) 15:28, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
I upgraded the chem-stub template to a layout similar to the other Chemistry templates. Cacycle, you added a 1em left-margin. Could you please explain (for my education) why? Wim van Dorst 21:37, 2005 Apr 15 (UTC).
Hi, just a little note here... I don't want to get into an edit war, but you'll need to replace the div tag back on the stub. I fully understand you wanting to make it comply with your project's templates, but it must comply with the stub template format to identify it as a stub. Specifically, I am asking that the div tag to be replaced back on to the template. (div class="boilerplate metadata" id="stub") -- AllyUnion (talk) 17:18, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
By way of explanation, and in response to a comment on my talk page: I didn't realize I was reverting it; I did the editing by hand, and intended that the template look like every single other stub template. Avoidable colored boxes are ugly, not to mention an unnecessary distraction from the content of the article. Also, I removed a mention of the wikiproject since convention dictates that an editors' project not be linked from the main namespace. — Dan | Talk 20:35, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the elucidation. But where can we find those conventions, standards etc for stubs (and other templates)? We aim to make the Chemistry wikiproject related templates uniform. Isn't that appropriate? And as a {{stub}} notification is by definition an editor's link in main namespace, I would think that guidelines for editing would be appropriate? Wim van Dorst 21:43, 2005 Apr 26 (UTC).
This request was accidentally posted in an archive page. Moved to the main discussion page here. Walkerma 14:26, 8 February 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | → | Archive 5 |
Eventually, we should come up with some nice format for articles about chemical compounds. Right now, I like caffeine: a picture of the 3-d structure, a picture of the chemical structure, the chemical formula and the correct name. Maybe the CAS number should be added for completeness. I know that 3-d structure images can be produced with the program rasmol. Does anyone know a nice program for producing the 2-d structure formulas? Right now, I use JChemPaint and I don't like it. AxelBoldt 03:36 Dec 17, 2002 (UTC)
The 3D picture on caffeine is way too dark -- I can't see much at all on my monitor. A lighter background would be better -- grey, or the same shade of cream as the 2D diagram. -- Tarquin (but apart fomr that, caffeine is good. I've been editing articles on compounds to open with:
to establish context.
On second thoughts, I think I prefer:
Discussion of the table for inorganic compounds given at Inorganic table information should probably take place here... AxelBoldt 23:04 22 May 2003 (UTC)
Has any consensus been reached on how to name articles describing chemical compounds. Obviously, there are cases where the systematic name for the compound is not the appropriate name for the article. An extreme example would be water. And since the sort of chemicals that are of sufficient industrial, historical, or pharmacological importance to merit articles are exactly the sort of compounds likely to be better-known known by a common name than their systematic one, I guess, how should we decide? Take the Google poll? Use whatever comes first in a standard reference like the Merck index? Any other thoughts? Shimmin 04:14, 22 Aug 2003 (UTC)
Can anyone recommend a decent free program that draws chemical structures. One that's not too hard and runs under Windows or Linux would be great. ThereIsNoSteve 05:29, 29 Sep 2003 (UTC)
Unless anyone objects, the standard wikipedia symbol for equilibrium will be ↔, until someone fixes this problem. Resonance will need another symbol.
Other options that shouldn't be used for equilibrium are:
The current wikipedia software simply doesn't work for chemistry. Until better software is created, chemistry will not be worth adding to wikipedia. Bensaccount 20:38, 6 Mar 2004 (UTC)
Given the vast number of chemical compounds I think it would be a good idea to create some kind of standard tutorial for how to create chemical diagrams and how to export them to wikipedia. Either that or have everyone just use IUPAC.
Also, I want to copy a visualization of a protein made with VMD here. Is there a standard program for visualizations, and how do copyrights work on them? Bensaccount 22:30, 3 May 2004 (UTC)
There has been a long discussion on the mailing list about the use of SMILES [1] notation for creating chemistry diagrams. SMILES notation is compact, well-documented, there are multiple tools for it, both Free/Open Source and proprietary. However, it needs the political and programming will for someone to add an extension to MediaWiki that will integrate these tools so we can write (for example) [[SMILES:c1ccccc1[N+](=O)[O-]|right|frame|nitrobenzene]] and get the expected result: a nice automatically generated chemical diagram of nitrobenzene as a PNG, in a frame with a caption. -- The Anome 15:27, 29 Aug 2004 (UTC)
I have just listed the following articles on Wikipedia:Copyright problems:
Unless new stubs or articles are created at Calcium peroxide/Temp, Potassium monopersulfate/Temp, Magnesium peroxide/Temp and/or Sodium perborate monohydrate/Temp within a week or so, they will be deleted. Securiger 09:39, 5 May 2004 (UTC)
{{SampleWikiProject}}
I've been having thoughts about the balance between providing data and cluttering the page. A minimalist approach to the sidebar would be basic identification info (name, formula/structure, synonyms, CAS), and then external links to an MSDS and the NIST properties database. The next data to include would be the most useful basic properties (formula weight, phase transition temperatures, density). Some articles also feature some thermochemical data, and acid/base dissociation constants if applicable. One could also include stuff like index of refraction, dielectric constant, surface tension, etc...) but at some point, the properties sidebar gets to be longer than the text of the article, and the whole thing seems a bit silly.
Any thoughts on where to draw the line? Shimmin 14:46, 6 May 2004 (UTC)
I just put a reference to the Chemistry WikiProject on the
Chemistry wikipage, which was rather quickly reverted by
User:Darrien stating that selfreferencing should be avoided. The proper linking to a WikiProject should be on a Discussion page (see above), but how do we think about putting a wikilink to the project on a wikipage?
Wim van Dorst 19:23, 2005 Apr 10 (UTC)
Do want a since colour/layout for the three project templates, perhaps also applicable to the colour/layouts of the chemical infoboxes and other things for the Chemistry projects. Wim van Dorst 20:33, 2005 Apr 12 (UTC).
I've created a WikiProject Rocks and Minerals for anyone who'd like to join and comment. Tried to use compound table as a start but I think there are differences in the kinds of appropriate info. Comments welcome. Elf 21:29, 4 Feb 2004 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Naming conventions (chemistry), where I'm asking for guidance on policy for capitalization of chemical names. -- The Anome 12:28, 27 Jul 2004 (UTC)
I hope to standardize the templates and tables by May 7, 2005. Anyone willing to work on this with me, even for a short time is greatly appreciated. It's the difference between getting this done in five months instead of three years. oo64eva (AJ) 15:28, Apr 5, 2005 (UTC)
I upgraded the chem-stub template to a layout similar to the other Chemistry templates. Cacycle, you added a 1em left-margin. Could you please explain (for my education) why? Wim van Dorst 21:37, 2005 Apr 15 (UTC).
Hi, just a little note here... I don't want to get into an edit war, but you'll need to replace the div tag back on the stub. I fully understand you wanting to make it comply with your project's templates, but it must comply with the stub template format to identify it as a stub. Specifically, I am asking that the div tag to be replaced back on to the template. (div class="boilerplate metadata" id="stub") -- AllyUnion (talk) 17:18, 16 Apr 2005 (UTC)
By way of explanation, and in response to a comment on my talk page: I didn't realize I was reverting it; I did the editing by hand, and intended that the template look like every single other stub template. Avoidable colored boxes are ugly, not to mention an unnecessary distraction from the content of the article. Also, I removed a mention of the wikiproject since convention dictates that an editors' project not be linked from the main namespace. — Dan | Talk 20:35, 26 Apr 2005 (UTC)
Thanks for the elucidation. But where can we find those conventions, standards etc for stubs (and other templates)? We aim to make the Chemistry wikiproject related templates uniform. Isn't that appropriate? And as a {{stub}} notification is by definition an editor's link in main namespace, I would think that guidelines for editing would be appropriate? Wim van Dorst 21:43, 2005 Apr 26 (UTC).
This request was accidentally posted in an archive page. Moved to the main discussion page here. Walkerma 14:26, 8 February 2006 (UTC)