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Do we have anything like {{tl|Cvgproj}} for this wikiproject? The CVG project is sticking their template on almost all talk pages that they might edit. While we don't necessarily need to do that, I think that if there's a person who ocassionally visits something like Category:Automobile stubs, it would be good to point them towards this project. -- Interiot 17:29, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, I knew this was bound to come up. Whoever decided to call Opels such as the Opel Astra the "General Motors Astra" must've ignored the home-market precedent that was supposed to follow. Before I begin, let me share with you someone's complaint from the General Motors Corsa talk page:
Another comment from the General Motors Omega talk page:
I have to say that I agree with these comments.
The calling of these cars as "General Motors" vehicles creates a problem. First off, these cars (Agila (with Suzuki), Corsa, Astra, Vectra, Zafira, Sintra, Omega, Combo, Vivaro (with Renault), Movano (with Renault), Calibra, and Tigra) were designed by Adam Opel AG in Russelheim, Germany. For those of you who don't know GM's apparatus very well, Adam Opel AG is owned, technically, by GM Europe, which also Vauxhall Motors Ltd., of Luton, England, UK. Now, since most current Vauxhalls are really just RHD Opels (the VX220 and the Monaro being the exception), there is obviously a problem. However, I don't see just a problem in regards to Vauxhalls - I see a problem with all of the Opels in general. Now I know that some people in here that can interpret the "home-market" precedent to what is being done on, say, the General Motors Corsa and General Motors Astra pages. However, I think that there is a problem. You see, although all the cars mentioned in these pages (for example, regarding the Corsa, the Opel Vita, the Opel Corsa Lite, the Chevrolet Corsa, etc.) might look different, visually and also with engine choice, they are all the same Opel Corsa, designed by Opel, engineered by Opel, and built/sold by Opel (and by GM subsidiaries all over the world as either a Opel, Chevrolet, or other brand) with Opel quality. Yet why is it a "GM" Corsa? This sounds like GM New Zealand way back in the 1980s when GM NZ tried (and failed) to make "GM" the main brand. Do we want another GM NZ on our hands? Who knows - maybe those complainers were right. Maybe the Daewoo Matiz should be the General Motors Matiz; the Chevrolet Malibu the General Motors Malibu; the Holden Commodore the General Motors Commodore; the ASEAN/Indian-market Chevrolet Tavera the General Motors Tavera; the Chevy Niva the General Motors Niva; etc. It doesn't stop there - how about the Ford Motor Company Taurus to cover the Taurus and Sable; the Ford Motor Company Explorer to cover the Mazda Navajo, the Mercury Mountaineer, the Lincoln Aviator, and the Ford Explorer; the Ford Motor Company Mondeo to cover the Ford Mondeo and the Jaguar X-Type; the DaimlerChrysler E-Class to cover the Merc E-Class, Dodge Charger/Magnum, and Chrysler 300; the PSA 307 for the Peugeot 307 and C4; the Toyota Motor Corporation Camry for the Toyota Camry, the Lexus ES, and the Daihatsu Altis; etc.? Do you see the absurdity of the artifical "GM" brand for cars like the Opel Corsa and Opel Astra? Therefore, I propose that in keeping with the home-market naming scheme, all cars that currently have the artifical "GM" name in them (the General Motors Agila, the General Motors Corsa, the General Motors Astra, the General Motors Zafira, and the discontinued General Motors Omega and General Motors Calibra are the ones I can think of off the top of my head) be changed to reflect their Opel heritage (i.e. the General Motors Calibra becomes the Opel Calibra; however the derivaties will also be given some mention - see the General Motors Zafira article).
I apologize if I sound a little bit harsh - must be my debating skills going a little bit out of hand. But this is one thing that can't be ignored for much longer. - Daniel Blanchette 16:47, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
-- 93JC 18:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed an inconsistency in the infoboxes for vehicles produced by the same manufacturer but sold under differen brand names. In the infoboxes for Jaguars, for example, it states that the manufacturer is "Jaguar Cars" which is the marque but not technically the manufacturer, but for the Rolls-Royce Phantom it states BMW as the manufacturer, same for Lincoln and Cadillac where we state Ford and GM as the manufacturer and Lexus where Toyota is stated as the manufacturer. Should we use the actual manufacturer such as Ford for Jag and Linc, GM for Caddi and Chevy, and VW for Bentley or should we use the marque under which the vehicles are sold such as Lincoln, Lexus, Infiniti, etc...? Thank you. Regards, Signature brendel 18:08, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
BMC --> Austin --> Austin Seven | | | +-> Morris --> Morris Mini Minor v BritishLeyland --> Mini | | | | | +-> Traveller | v | Innocenti (Italy) --> Mini v Authi (Spain) ----> Mini
...indicating that BMC manufactured the car under both the Austin and Morris marques with the car having different names in each case - with BMC becoming British Leyland who manufactured the car under a different set of names - and who had two other companies (subsidiaries or consortium members) making the car in other countries...possibly with other names. The trouble with this is that this diagram will be too complex to fit into an infobox in some cases - and we already have a complex set of templated diagrams that attempt to capture (with varying success) the tangled web of companies, parent companies, factory names, marques, car names and model names. SteveBaker 14:27, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
The manufactoring company is of course the juridical company that ownes the factory were the car is built. Quite simple really, some car brands are divisions meaning they get the mothercompany listed as manucatorer. Some companies are subsidiaries meaning they get their own name as manufactorer. -- Dahlis 01:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
It looks like the Mini article will be on the Wikipedia front page as 'Todays Featured Article' on April 17th. I'm told that vandalism is a HUGE problem for TFA's - so it would be nice if we could get more people to help patrol the article for vandalism on and around that day. Thanks in advance! SteveBaker 03:34, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Just as a heads up User:Ed g2s is removing all of the logos from the automobile templates because they are not allowed to be there under the fair use rules. When removing them, he uses FU for fair use, which I have told him is rude. In any event, I have placed a discussion point in the WP:FUP talk page to ask that the policy be amended to allow for logos in cases where the company is defunct, and used only in reference to those articles about the affiliates. I don't think it will fly, but its worth a chance. Stude62 21:13, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Alternate solution: If the goal is simply to have the logo on each of the relevant car pages (eg. on pages where they're allowed under fair use), and to not change the visual layout of each of the pages (eg. still display the logo inside the box), then there's another way to do it: I modified {{BMW cars}} to take an optional parameter (image) [1], and then modified [[BMW Z4]] to include the 100px-wide logo, stating that it's believed the logo is allowed on that page under fair use [2]. It would be a bit of work to use this solution everywhere. But it allows the template to be used on pages where the logo isn't allowed under fair use. So maybe the solution would be somewhat acceptable to the various parties involved. -- Interiot 12:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
This debate seems to have 'fizzled' - both here and on WP:FUP - so I've started a formal request for a policy change. Please chime in on the discussion at: Wikipedia:Fair_use_images_in_templates:_exceptions - let's get company logos back on those templates! SteveBaker 14:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I would like to bring attention to the peer review requests on the Lexus LS and Lincoln Town Car articles. If anyone has the time and would like to make suggestions on the two articles, I would really appriciate it. Thank you. Regards, Signature brendel 05:56, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Could someone with a keen eye take a look at the bio that I wrote for Edward S. Jordan (Ned Jordan)? Stude62 15:23, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
So, there seem to be a large number of short articles under Category:Automotive assembly plants. Is there any chance some of them could be merged together? If not, there's probably enough of them that we should create another stub category for them. Duesentrieb's CatScan lists 72 that are <750 chars. If there's no consensus on what to do in a couple days, I'll temporarily sort them into a separate stub category. -- Interiot 10:39, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Since peer review comments on MINI (BMW) have dried up - I've moved it on to WP:FAC. You guys are well placed to comment on it - so I encourage you to check out the entry. Many thanks! SteveBaker 15:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
It is a great article. I hope it will get featured.-- Bud 04:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Is this new stub compatible with the existing stub organization? So far, we haven't broken things out by car types, we've broken then out by manufacture date. If we further separated out {{ modern-auto-stub}}, wouldn't we do something like {{ modern-ford-auto-stub}} or {{ modern-wagon-auto-stub}}, rather than making a stub that's orthogonal to the existing structure? -- Interiot 12:31, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
On Lincoln LS article a recent probelm has arisen. There seems to be a small conflict of whether or not to include a link to the Lincoln LS Owner's Club (LSOC) web-site should be included. The problem is that most of the LSOC site is off-limits to non-members and thus requires payment. Should such links be included in an article? Any suggestions? Thanks. Regards, Signature brendel 05:38, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
There are some articles that would benefit from infoboxes having multiple photos. Particularly in the case of badge-engineered identical vehicles (Dodge Caravan / Plymouth Voyager, Toyota Corolla / Geo Prizm, etc.), it would be more parsimonious to have two photos and one set of specs. I have seen this attempted a couple of different ways, and have tried it myself, but none of the results has been entirely satisfactory. What's the concensus on how best to handle this? Scheinwerfermann 03:12, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Is ghostriding a well-defined phrase? My gut feeling is to AfD it as a neologism, but I wanted to run it by you guys first. -- Interiot 12:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
As the current discussion page has reached 64 posts (65 posts if you count this one), I would like to archive the first 50, as was done in the first archive. Any suggestions, comments, objections? If there are no objections I will go ahead and archive the first 50 posts in a week (Afterall edits can always be reversed). Thank you. Regards, Signature brendel 00:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed that the articles on the eurovans (Sevel Nord Fiat/PSA minivans) contain minuscule amounts of individual content and consist mostly of the same information, which can be attributed to all eurovans. So, I have put together a provisional article on all eurovans, combining info from all previous articles ( Citroën Evasion, Citroen C8, Fiat Ulysse, Peugeot 806, Peugeot 807), as well as adding some more info (btw, thank you Sfoskett for great pages on PSA engines), e.g. concerning Lancias, who don't have articles currently.
I would like to ask about your views and comments on the article. It is a working version, I believe you will indicate many "areas for improvement", for which I thank you in advance :D
Would you think it would be appropriate to replace the current eurovans articles with this one, perhaps info on commercial vans should be added (Sevel Nord or the "Surs" too?) and then it should go in lieu of the entire Sevel Nord or even Sevel Van articles?
Thanks, Bravada 23:48, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I've been editing a lot of articles about European cars lately (mainly French models), and I've noticed a lot of these articles still use old tables that are either incomplete or too short. Can somebody help me out with the task of converting these tables to infoboxes? Thanks. -- ApolloBoy 07:09, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
An anonymous user keeps adding information about a supposed 2011 Audi S4. Audi has not released any official information on the next-generation Audi A4, although German magazine Auto Bild has published a speculative piece on the next-gen's engineering and styling. This user first added his own speculations here, which, by his own reference, is based on this, although he has claimed to have inside information on Audi. Here, this user reduced the size of his speculations. Here, I actually added a better sourced piece of speculation, which actually refers to the S4. However, I am not happy with it, and would like consensus on the exclusion of any information about future models that does not come from any official sources. -- Pc13 08:47, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering what we should do about concept vehicles? i think they should have some sort of template similar to the future products one. a lot of the information is heresay or read in magazines and just put up here with a photo.
a lot of the articles are also lacking information. so i think there should maybe be a stub template for concept vehicles. please share your ideas. ren0 talk 05:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
{{concept automobile|*}}
Well, i think i may have been drunk or something (if i even drank... pff), cause now that i look back i can't even make sense of what i was originally asking. i really agree that there shouldn't be a template for concept cars. even though it seems like i was aiming at that as my question. plus a lot of you made good, valid points. but then again obviously if a concept car is speculated to turn into a production model (think Plymouth Prowler, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Toyota FJ Cruiser, etc..) you would place the future vehicle on there, correct?
i do, however, think there should be a concept car stub. votes? thoughts? ren0 talk 00:28, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
A concept car stub is astually a good idea, but we have to see whether or not there are enough articles to justify such a move, which I think there are. Also, yes when a manufacturer states that a concept car will enter production such as in the case of the Lincoln MKS, it becomes a future vehicles article. Regards, Signature brendel 02:10, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
This brings about yet another issue - should we really have so many articles on "future", "speculative", "possible" vehicles (and many "vehicles somebody would want to come true"). Today's Edmunds says that the Astra-based compact Saab, previously rumored as 9-2, will be 9-1, and immediately there's a 9-1 article. But that's as speculative as can be, tomorrows paper might say it's 9-1.5x or something and then the
Saab 9-1 article would have to be deleted or what? Until GM provides us with a definitive press release, I think there are so many other uncovered REAL vehicles that we could focus on...
Bravada
Talk to me!
02:43, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
i have done some heavy editing in that article and i keep seeing people adding bullshit to the MKV section. they are trying to pass the information off and say its a "future vehicle" when it is not, and it never will be until toyota says otherwise (or they surprise us). then they go off and say blah blah, lexus. and try to say lexus will have the new sportscar (which is most likely true). lexus is a different marque of cars and shouldn't have info in the toyota supra article (obviously). then aside from that, i think toyota is smart enough that they WILL NOT release a new supra with a V8. they have always been straight-sixes and i'm willing to bet toyota will keep them that way (if they ever do release a new one).
so what should i do about this? i'm thinking just to remove it, and maybe add a section titled "future generations" and state that "toyota has continued to state there will be no more additions to the toyota supra line". (i have references.) maybe add some other things in there about how lexus is where toyota is putting any new sportscars. ideas? agreement? ren0 talk 00:28, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm new to wikipedia. How do I join this wikiproject (it is my area of expertise)? Also, could someone please explain how the "Pages needed attention works" section works. Bok269 01:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Great, but how do I/We decide what goes on the list or where? bok269 21:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I was thinking about what things the reader of an article about a particular car might be curious about. We have Infobox sections for "Predecessor" and "Successor" - which help you to understand what this design replaced - and what finally improved on it enough to obsolete it. But wouldn't it also be interesting to know what other cars were competitors at the time? That would allow readers to contrast other contemporary solutions to the same set of design problems. Hence, (to take my usual example), the Mini article's template could add "Competitors: VW Bug, Fiat 500, Citroen 2CV, Ford Anglia". That gives users a powerful navigational tool to find other, similar cars from the same era/price-range/performance-bracket. SteveBaker 21:15, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Don't we already have such a section called "similar?" I think this sections is intended for featruing a vehicle's competitors for the reasons you listed. In the Lexus LS article I have used it to list all competitors. Regards, Signature brendel 00:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
The cut off date for this stub is given on the project page as 1900. The standard date in Britain is pre 1905 as given at Brass Era car. I cannot locate a reference to 1900 in any of the articles but I won't guarantee not to have missed something. Is there any reason for the 1900 date? Malcolma 08:54, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
The template at the bottom of Brass Era car doesn't agree with the body of the article either! Terms like 'Veteran', 'Antique' and 'Classic' have different meanings depending on who you talk to. Here in Texas, there are specific legal definitions for those terms because your tax, license, insurance and smog exemptions depend on which catagory your car falls into. SteveBaker 22:31, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I've joined this one, it's great to have a WikiProject on this!! -- Sunfazer | Talk 10:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to get Honda Civic to featured article status. This article is good so far, but needs a bit more work to get it on the main page. If anyone can help me, let me know here or on my talk page. Thanks! -- Sunfazer | Talk 10:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I have 300 pictures of exotic cars (Enzo, Carrera GT, 1930s Rolls, Murcierlago, DB4, Ford GT + many more) which I'll authorize for use under the Creative Commons Attribution License v. 2.5 with the byline of "By Brett Weinstein (Wikipedia User: Nrbelex) taken at the Scarsdale Concours in 2006". I have a picture of (almost) any of the cars on this list (which is a picture in a Word file) so leave a message on my talk page with requests. Nrbelex ( talk) 23:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Cool - how should we find/link to them from articles? SteveBaker 02:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
All done. See the Commons. Thanks again for providing these great photos! -- SFoskett 18:22, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I've edited one or two Mitsubishi-based articles, and one of the things I've noticed is the vast number of links to Owners' Clubs. I'm not opposed to them per se, but articles like the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution or Mitsubishi Eclipse have quite a few, many of them very "regional".
It's easy where a user has done nothing but spam their club and they're in violation of the Wikipedia:External_links policy ("Because of neutrality & point-of-view concerns, a primary policy of Wikipedia is that no one from a particular site/organization should post links to that organization/site etc. Because neutrality is such an important -- and difficult -- objective at Wikipedia, this takes precedence over other policies defining what should be linked."). But I've been reverting some linkspam by User:24.129.36.149 of 4g63hp.com and User:Jhrody of DodgeTuners.org, and it seems incongrous to delete one Owners' Club link while leaving six or seven others behind. Any consensus on how draconian we can be in this matter?
And just to make an open declaration, I am a member of clubvr4.com and I included a link to it in the article about the Galant VR-4. I thought it was OK in this particluar instance. ;) -- DeLarge 13:28, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Actually, WP:EL says "forums should generally not be linked to". I don't know, maybe that's a bit harsh since clubs are an important part of car culture, but maybe if in doubt, it's best to discuss it in Talk, and/or remove forum links? -- Interiot 15:41, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I believe that the intent of the admonition in WP:EL is to tell people not to link to the CONTENT in forums because it tends to be ephemeral. I don't think it would be inappropriate to have ONE link to some kind of single international owner's club or umberella organisation. I think it's highly inappropriate to link to local owner club forums because to do a comprehensive job would require hundreds or perhaps thousands of such links - and Wikipedia is not a link directory. I think a reader who wanted to find out about a particular kind of car would be very interested to find an owner club - so pointing to a place where they could find one would be a good thing. SteveBaker 02:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, here is something you can do DeLarge, STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS! You have accused me time and time again of owning a car club I DO NOT OWN NOR OPERATE. If you have proof then give it to us, otherwise, stop harrassing me.
Here is another recommendation, DO NOT DICTATE. You do NOT own the page and I don't either, it belongs to everyone, leave it that way. -- User:68.101.64.76 20:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
-- CBecker 21:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
First I'd like to say hello to everyone, as I'm both new to this project and Wikipedia in general. However in the few days I've been reviewing this project page and the discussions going on behind the scenes, I've noticed a great lack of direction and uniformity (in regards mainly to automobile model pages, specificly). I've noticed that there is general agreement that there should be an infobox, but as to what information it contains and how that information is displayed there is no general consensus (unless I'm overlooking one). There also seems to be no agreed upon example page, which is pretty disheartening. This project has been going on for a while now and yet there's no definite example to go by? I also noticed that there seems to be no uniform layout for all those templates. Compare the Volkswagen Group to the Ford to the Lancia templates (though if I could vote for the style I like best I'd pick the Lancia one...). If there really is to be some uniformity regarding model pages, I think we're all going to have to reach a consensus as soon as possible regarding page layout, infobox layout (and what information to include), external links layout (and what to include/exclude), templates, and any other aspects of a common Wikipedia entry that I failed to mention. With this consensus, throw an example page together and we'll all go from there. If I'm overlooking anything that has already been officially decided, it's probably because there is no clear mention of it on the main project page. Any official decisions made about layout etc I definitely vote should be referenced on the main page. What a great idea for a project, and if any online community can pull it off it's this one. Now it just needs to be more standardized and uniform. Questions? Responses to questions? Comments?
I think we really should have a "model article" to link to, at least regarding layout. Unfortunately, current selected articles are not quite good examples here - either they do not comply (like don't use infoboxes) or are quite peculiar and don't give a good overview. I think an example article should:
What do you think about it? What are your propositions? Bravada, talk - 01:36, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
-- CBecker 21:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Moreso even than the model pages, currently I'm most interested in the topic of automaker companies/parent companies/groups of companies/etc. I was wondering if there has been any thought put into how to organize and interlink pages about these companies. I've seen some of the templates (most of which could really use a standardized makeover) but is there an example page to go by for layout and other aspects? If not, I vote we get on that, too. If a company like GM owns many subcompanies (Chevy, Hummer, Pontiac, Saab, GMC, etc etc etc) in the same way that a company like VAG owns subcompanies (VW and Audi), many of which own further subcompanies (VW owns Bentley, Bugatti, VW, etc; Audi owns Lamborghini, SEAT, Audi...), and most of which work with other sub-companies within the same parent company and other companies altogether.... if you don't follow, my point is proven. It's a confusing mess. So for the good of all, I propose that any company linked to another (sub-/parent-/partner-/etc-) company, be done in an easily understandable, uniform method, perhaps through a template with a standardized layout (though obviously the contained information would change depending upon which companies it is linking). Again, any official decisions should be noted on the main page of this project for all contributors to access easily and use in their updates and new pages. Thoughts?
It has come to my attention that there is a heated debate happening right now on all of the Volvo pages. Ford Motor Company has been the manufacturer of all Volvos since Ford's acquisition of Volvo in 1998. Therefore, "Ford Motor Company" is listed as the manufacturer on each current-model Volvo page ( Volvo C70, Volvo S60, Volvo S80, etc). Recently, however, at least two Swedish Wikipedians have been removing FMC as the manufacturer and replacing it with "Volvo Cars," blindly denying Ford's involvement.
My question is this: Should Ford be listed as the manufacturer on Volvo pages (as it is on the Jaguar and Land Rover pages), or do you think these two people are right in listing Volvo as the manufacturer? And what can we do to stop all of the fierce arguments that are happening because of this issue? Jagvar 14:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm new to Wikipedia. I have noticed that many automotive articles don't link to the official site of the Auto/Automaker. Should I add the link when I see it isn't there? Does that violate any copyrights? Bok269 01:56, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
The Concept car page has a subsection titled "Some Concept Cars." As the name suggests, it is imcomplete. An idea I had is that whenever someone comes across, adds, or edits a page about a concept car, check the page, and if that car is not there, add it to the list, and add a quick description as with the rest of the list. Bok269 20:17, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
There actually is a page called Concept Car. For whatever reason it is not linking from this page properly. Maybe instead of that subsection, it should just link to that category. Bok269 02:39, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Maybe we should take a vote as to whether to expand the list on the article, or to eliminate it and link to the category. I'm more than happy to take the cars from the list and put them on the Concept car page. Let me know. Bok269 15:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Could someone with chart skills overhaul the Volvo timeline? The date intervals are not to scale, and the current cars do not extend past 2006, as other manufacturer's cars do. None of these vehicles have been announced to cease production. Bok269 23:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I wanted to get some input on creating something like {{automobileindex}} to use instead of {{ disambig}} on pages that are solely devoted to choosing between separate automobile pages. WP:MOSDAB is somewhat strict in its formatting rules, and while I agree with them for general disambig articles, the style guidelines can be a little too strict for subject-specific articles. WikiProject Ships has created {{ shipindex}} based on this discussion and others at WP:MOSDAB, and I think the same sort of thing applies to many auto disambigs. This is a list of automobiles currently marked with {{ disambig}}, and the Mercedes articles stand out as ones that definitely would be a stretch to fit into WP:MOSDAB. Anyway, it would take a bit of work to undo, so I wanted to run it by other people first. -- Interiot 20:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
There seem to have been a bazillion links to the classic-cars-online.co.uk website added to car articles across Wikipedia. I checked out the IP address of the vandal and it belongs to the same ISP that hosts the classic-cars-online website - so it's pretty clear that this is linkspam of the worst kind. I emailed the 'contact' address at that website and told them in pretty strong terms that this isn't acceptable. Does someone have a 'bot that can clear them all out? SteveBaker 15:38, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
The main wikipedia MoS on numbers, dates, and units is pretty useless when it comes to all the nonstandard units we use (cc or cm³ instead of mL, ci or in³ instead of, I dunno, fl.oz?, rpm instead of Hz, etc). Do we have a standard or even a guideline for units anywhere? It can be pretty confusing.
I've noticed a few de facto conventions, such as displaying the US unit for torque as ft·lbf rather than as ft-lb or lb-ft or common but horribly incorrect variants like "ft/lb" or "tq".
— AKADriver ☎ 16:12, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I guess this answers most of your questions -> Wikipedia:WikiProject_Automobiles/Conventions Bravada, talk - 16:29, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I am happy to inform you that Lancia Flaminia has just been promoted to Good Article status! This is in no small way thanks to Steve's generous contributions to improve the article and procure a free photo!
Thus, our still small collection of Good and Featured articles continues to grow, and I hope soon we will hear of more good news like that. In the meantime, I encourage you to nominate some better articles you know, and also improve other with references so that we could nominate them too! Perhaps we might also consider concentrating our efforts by means of something like a COTW. Bravada, talk - 16:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I created an article on ex-WRC driver Pentti Airikkala a while back, and in the course of creating Wikilinks I came across what I think is a bit of a problem.
All the individual events in the WRC calendar have their own articles (accessed by selecting on of the years listed on the WRC results page), but they include the names of the sponsors in the title. While this is accurate for recent years, it makes historical records erroneous. For example, Airikkala competed in the New Zealand Rally in 1979. The "live" page is Propecia Rally of New Zealand, but Propecia only came on board in 2001; in 1979 the sponsor was Motogard [5]. I don't think it's encyclopedic to include the sponsors names in the title, but I think about 10 of the race articles are currently affected in this way.
As far as possible, I've checked the official website of each event to see what they call themselves, and I've double-checked that against the list of events on the Rallybase.nl website [6]. I came up with what I reckon the articles should be called, and listed them on my userpage. However, I don't want to start renaming/redirecting manually without some discussion. Also, if anyone can automate the renaming process to cover the problem of creating numerous dead links all of a sudden, I'd be grateful for their assistance. -- DeLarge 18:42, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Cheers for the feedback - I've now created the articles, with appropriate redirects to hopefully avoid red linkage. All I have left to do now is to build or repair the pages covering the last 34 years' worth of WRC results and I'll be done. -- DeLarge 21:46, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Hello! I'm Fluence from Mexico and I just joined the WikiProject last Friday. As my first contribution I made a list including all cars sold at the moment in Mexico. I think that if I live in Mexico I can contribute to the Project by adding info of cars in my country. Previously I created the Clio V6 Renault Sport article as I'm fan of Renault. Hope this help to the Renault main article. As you can see my nickname is in fact a Renault car (I'll do its article, Renault Fluence soon) Fluence 23:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I forgot to give the article's page. That is Cars in Mexico Fluence 01:17, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Great idea, Bravada. That would actually be an intereting project to have articles that list the vehicles for a given market. Do we already have such an article for the US and Canada? Otherwise I'd like to create one and the names Cars in America or List of cars in America arn't used. I just got through creating the List of largest passenger vehicles in the United States,and am thinking about creating a Cars in America article, similar to the Cars in Mexico article. The article I am proposing would however be in a table format like the main table on the List of car manufacturers I recently created. Regards, Signature brendel 21:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Now that the article is up and running (Still under construction though), I would like to invite everyone to make suggestion and help build this article; Passenger vehicles in the United States. As always, thanks for contributing. Best Regards, Signature brendel 03:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
As I see on the project page that Renault articles were needed I just made the article for the Mégane Renault Sport, one of my favourite cars. I'm working also on the Renault Fluence artcle:D Fluence 00:49, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I found that info in a magazine so sadly I cannot cite references:( I will look up for some later:) 148.221.178.138 01:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I think auto shows is a topic poor in information. There is information about some auto shows but the pages are full of red links. I think we need to put more attention to these, don't you think? For the moment, I created the article for the Mexico Autoshow:) Fluence 00:41, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Yesterday, a user added the section "Recent Quality Issues" to the Mercedes-Benz page. I'm just not sure what to make of it. The user alleged that Mercedes models from the first half of this decade are of poor quality, but he backed up his allegations with numerous links to automotive reviews.
I commend this user for backing up his arguments with statistics and links, but I still feel this section is very biased. Any of the reviews and ratings systems the user provided can be countered with reviews and ratings that argue the exact opposite. Reviews are not very objective.
Unless someone can actually cite figures that illustrate an increase in recalls and repairs for these model years, I feel the "quality issues" section should be removed. Any thoughts? Jagvar 19:12, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
I have recently expanded the
Talbot Tagora article considerably and started wondering whether it might be a good candidate for GA or even FA. Before I put it through formal "general" peer review, I would like to ask for your opinions first. In particular, I would appreciate native speakers' opinions on (and corrections to) the language and style, as well as all other general remakrs regarding the suitability of this article. If you find errors concerning factual accuracy, please do provide a better reference if you can! Feel free to edit the article accordingly.
Bravada,
talk -
14:41, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
NOTE: Please DO NOT change the "Powertrains and versions" section into a table, unless you have a really really really good idea for it, and not the usual grayish table!
UPDATE: It's been over a week since I posted this, and only one user decided to review this article and present his comments (nevertheless, they it was a very thorough and insightful review, which helped a lot in improving the article - thank you very much, DeLarge!) So, now I moved to the next step and requested for this article to be peer reviewed within the formal WP:PR process. You can contribute too @ Wikipedia:Peer review/Talbot Tagora/archive1. Thanks! Bravada, talk - 17:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Hello. As some people already know, I have created a Holden template, but I need some additional people to look at it before I make it official. Some people have already commented on it, but I need some others to look at it. Please bear with me, as this is my first attempt at a template, so I need all the opinions I can get! - Daniel Blanchette 01:10, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
There is an article for the GTO that covers all the generations. There is also one titled Pontiac GTO (2004) that has both the Monaro based and Zeta-based model. SHould we merge it back into the larger article. There are other cars that have individual articles for each generation. Should we merge those as well? Or, should we restrict that page to the Monaro generation and move the Zeta-based model to its own article? Bok269 01:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
That makes sense, but do we need to have the Zeta in there as well? It seems to contradict the title. Maybe have Pontiac GTO (Zeta) redirect to a section in the Zeta article about the GTO (it would require expansion of the Zeta article)? Bok269 15:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I meant a Pontiac GTO section of the GM Zeta platform article. Bok269 00:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I am interested in making units consistent and have taken part in discussions here. I have created a simple tool that makes the task quicker. If you want to use it, feel free. Simply copy the entire contents of User:Bobblewik/monobook.js to your own monobook. Then follow the instructions in your monobook to clear the cache (i.e. press Ctrl-Shift-R in Firefox, or Ctrl-F5 in IE) before it will work. This will give you a 'units' tab to press in edit mode. Hope that helps. bobblewik 19:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
We had a quite sunny day today, so I decided to go for a walk and grabbed a camera. I took some photos of my neighbourhood, including some cars unsuspecting owners left unguarded in the area I roamed. Two of them (car pics) are even actually OK. At first I was very proud of myself and the possibility of contributing to Wikipedia this way, but after I came home, edited and uploaded them to Commons, my enthusiasm faded - especially after I compared them to the pics illustrating the articles on the subjects at present. I would be grateful if you would spare a moment and look at my photos page and tell me what you think of them - preferably on teh appropriate talk page. Thanks! Bravada, talk - 00:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't see anything wrong with them. If the article allows, you can certainly load both.-- Bud 09:08, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
For what it's worth, body kit seems like an article that really obviously needs a picture. I did a pretty quick scan of the commons/yotophoto/flickr, but didn't find anything (though most probably don't explicitely say "body kit"). If all else fails, this image (of a 350z Veilside body kit) might work. -- 0x845FED 14:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed (correct me if I am wrong) that we do not have many articles on the development of cars, such as prototypes and mules. Also, we don't have one on Spy Photos? Should I start them? Bok269 00:15, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you. But, something to keep in mind is that many of the future speculation is based off of insider information from the manufacturers. The future automobile template mentions that most of the info is speculatory. As for the Ferrari, many believed it was the 600 Imola. I would guess that that was based off of insider info and that the name change was a recent decision. Bok269 14:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Good point. I'll take that into consideration when I write the articles. Bok269 18:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I proposed this on a user's page, and someone thought I should put it here, too. If we're going to be consistent on Wikipedia when it comes to cars, we have to come up with some standard for doors. We've got a lot of articles that say 2-door coupe, but 3-door or 5-door hatchback, and then back to 2-door wagon and 4-door SUV. This is not consistent at all, because the "extra" door is no less integral to the hatchback design than it is to the wagon or SUV, and in all cases that door accesses the rear of the cabin.
So, I think we have two options. First, we keep the hatchback labels the same, but say 3-door wagon and 5-door wagon and 5-door SUV. This is the approach Car & Driver and GlobalAutoIndex take.
The other option is to use 4-door sedan, 4-door hatchback, and 4-door wagon (Motor Trend, Automobile Magazine, Edmunds.com, ConsumerGuide, Consumer Reports, and my own Carsinamerica.net all use this format). This is preferable, since it distinguishes that doors are for people, liftgates and hatches are for luggage. (And to anticipate, wagons with a rear-facing 3rd-row seat have such seating as more or less a jump seat; it can usually be removed and the general use of the area is for cargo).Therefore, the only time "odd" numbers of doors would be used would be on old extended-cab pickup trucks and mini/maxivans. And as one other reminder, only use +2 doors if the rear door cannot be independently opened, such that the Mazda RX-8 is a 2+2-door, but the Rolls-Royce Phantom is a 4-door.
The second option is more concrete than the first, but either one is better than 5-door hatchback but 4-door wagon, which is both inconsistent and illogical.
Sacxpert
09:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I've always been bugged by this, but all the press I've seen (in Britain) have always gone with 2 & 4 doors for saloons/sedans and estates/wagons, and 3 & 5 doors for hatchbacks. It was a marketing ploy by the early hatchback makers, I seem to remember, to make us think we were getting something extra that "old-fashioned" bodystyles didn't have.
(Urgh - too much indentation!) The problem with using Sacxpert's idea of saying: '2-door sedan' and '2-door coupe' is that those terms don't translate very well between US and British dialects - and even in the US their definitions are horribly vague. I'm a Brit who lives in the US - so I'm something of an expert on these kinds of linguistic confusion. British people don't use the word 'sedan' - and if they did, the image that comes to mind is of some kind of big, ugly American car that drives like a boat...when in fact the term would apply to a Mini here in the USA. Coupe is even worse because even Americans can't agree on the definition and a good fraction of Brits would probably associate it with the French word 'coup' meaning 'cut' and would guess that you were talking about a car with the roof cut off...a convertible. There was a huge argument about this kind of confusion on the Mini page when I strictly interpreted the definition of a coupe rather than calling the car a sedan as Americans would classify it. So it would be much better to come up with some more transatlantic-neutral way of expressing the number of doors. That's why I'd prefer to not rely on those terms. Why not simply list the doors the vehicle has - along with their function? It works much more clearly - and has the same meaning no matter what English dialect you speak. Things get worse when you get into weird machines like the 3-door 4 seat BMW Isetta (that's 3 passenger doors - one at the front). What about the SmartCar - or worse still the new retro Citroen-2CV (is it a convertible? A T-top? A sedan? A coupe?) - or the Mini Moke or the Ariel Atom (no doors at all!) These terms fall apart and have confusing cultural connotations. It's not so bad that the terms are vague and confusing when they are merely descriptive of an overall style - but when you are trying to say that this car does or doesn't have a cargo door, that confusion becomes much more serious. SteveBaker 18:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
The argument about English dialects has raged back and forth on Wikipedia since time immemorial - the policy has been talked to death and we aren't going to change it here. There has to be a way to end these kinds of disputes - and the way is to apply the rule. Obviously in cases where there is no disagreement then by all means break the rules - but where there is dispute, the dispute has to end - and in the interests of productivity and harmony, it has to end quickly - so apply the rule - there are more important things you can do for Wikipedia than to argue against such a well established policy. I've been talking about US and UK dialects because thats where the problems seem to come up the most - but obviously we have to use the same degree of tolerance for the other major English dialects too. Whilst it can be hard for a UK English speaker to write Australian English with confidence. I think most educated Americans can remember to write 'colour' and most Brits can fake 'Hood' and 'Trunk' instead of 'Bonnet' and 'Boot' - but we're all here for each other - when we slip up - let's quietly correct problems and do it with good grace. SteveBaker 03:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I noticed today a few pages getting tagged with [[Category:Auto parts]] - which seems like a good thing - so I tagged a few more parts that had gotten missed. Then I noticed some articles with {{auto parts stub}} - and other articles with BOTH tags. Shouldn't all articles about car parts (whether stubs or not) be given [[Category:Auto parts]]? In many cases there just isn't much to say about a particular car part. My recent article Nerf bar is pretty much just a stub - but there really isn't all that much to say about a tube you bolt onto a truck to make a step! If we don't add the [[Category:Auto parts]] tag to stub articles then people won't be able to find them when they look at the auto parts catagory page. So I think stubs do need the [[Category:Auto parts]] tag - no matter how short they are. SteveBaker 13:49, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
There is this one user who keeps insisting that the AMC Matador is actually the distant predecessor of the Chrysler LH-cars and the current LX-cars. He keeps adding the Eagle Premier, Eagle Vision and Chrysler 300M as "successors" to the Matador, even though the Matador was never really replaced in AMC's lineup. I keep removing this because most of his information is somewhat false and it does smell of of original research. He recently confronted me about it, and told me to "knock it off" and accused me of vandalism, when I had no such intentions. What should I do? -- ApolloBoy 00:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
User:Wiarthurhu has mentioned "a book of US cars to 1990 which establishes that the next AMC midsize was the Premier."
If no-one objects, I'm going to leave a message on his
talk page requesting an ISBN reference which can be cited in the article. If he can't provide that, I'd be happy to see it removed, since the article as it stands makes only a very tenuous link between the vehicles (i.e. A --> ten year gap --> B --> C does not really equal A --> C).
--
DeLarge
10:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
UPDATE:
I don't think anyone disputes which AMC midsize came after the Matador. The problem is that the next one came TEN YEARS after the Matador ceased production and shared essentially zero parts with it, was styled totally differently and had a totally different name - so the claim that one was the successor to the other is pretty tough to justify. I have one of those four references (The Great Book of American Automobiles) and I don't think it says anything like Wiarthurhu thinks it does - of course, one of the other three might contradict that. SteveBaker 13:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Nowww they tell me the party is here. If the Impala nameplate is discarded and revived 20 years later, it would be a succesor. If the rebel turns into a nearly identical Matador, it's a sucessor. If AMC eventually fields another large car after abandoning the Matador, it is logically the last of a long line of large cars starting with the 1930s Nash Ambassador, both are linked by market position and company. Such an assertion shouldn't be labeled as "vandalism" or "nonsense" as was initially stated by Apolloboy. There is certainly no debate that the Premier->LH->LX sequence, or the Ambassador->Rebel->Matador sequence. Is there a law that says that the link between the two lines must be cut, and if so, why does Apolloboy have the right to declare it "nonsense"? I happen to have once been a youth that thought a Matador would be a cool car to have today, and find that the closest identifiable legacy is the 300C and Charger. If ford waits 20 years for the next Thunderbird, is that then no longer a succesor? If Ford doesn't replace the contour until the fusion, is the successor the Taurus and Focus, or the Fusion? If somebody writes that the Ford Cortina was a predecessor to the Pinto, can it be ripped up the the comment "removed vandalism"? Is that the way things work around here? -- Wiarthurhu 00:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I stumbled across this when an editor made a change on the List of automotive superlatives page. The smallest four cylinder diesel belongs to the Fiat Panda, and the link was changed from [[Fiat Panda]] to [[New Fiat Panda]]. My initial reaction was: "well, that'll be a red link to fix", but no, apparently there's an Old Fiat Panda page and a New Fiat Panda page. I didn't think the titles were very encyclopedic, and neither of them have a huge amount of content either, so I couldn't quite see why they'd be separate. Turns out the editors apparently want to keep them apart. [9] [10] I think it might be something to do with Template:Modern European Fiat vehicles. Before I attach a {{merge}} tag to it, I thought I'd invite discussion. -- DeLarge 19:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
Do we have anything like {{tl|Cvgproj}} for this wikiproject? The CVG project is sticking their template on almost all talk pages that they might edit. While we don't necessarily need to do that, I think that if there's a person who ocassionally visits something like Category:Automobile stubs, it would be good to point them towards this project. -- Interiot 17:29, 7 April 2006 (UTC)
Well, I knew this was bound to come up. Whoever decided to call Opels such as the Opel Astra the "General Motors Astra" must've ignored the home-market precedent that was supposed to follow. Before I begin, let me share with you someone's complaint from the General Motors Corsa talk page:
Another comment from the General Motors Omega talk page:
I have to say that I agree with these comments.
The calling of these cars as "General Motors" vehicles creates a problem. First off, these cars (Agila (with Suzuki), Corsa, Astra, Vectra, Zafira, Sintra, Omega, Combo, Vivaro (with Renault), Movano (with Renault), Calibra, and Tigra) were designed by Adam Opel AG in Russelheim, Germany. For those of you who don't know GM's apparatus very well, Adam Opel AG is owned, technically, by GM Europe, which also Vauxhall Motors Ltd., of Luton, England, UK. Now, since most current Vauxhalls are really just RHD Opels (the VX220 and the Monaro being the exception), there is obviously a problem. However, I don't see just a problem in regards to Vauxhalls - I see a problem with all of the Opels in general. Now I know that some people in here that can interpret the "home-market" precedent to what is being done on, say, the General Motors Corsa and General Motors Astra pages. However, I think that there is a problem. You see, although all the cars mentioned in these pages (for example, regarding the Corsa, the Opel Vita, the Opel Corsa Lite, the Chevrolet Corsa, etc.) might look different, visually and also with engine choice, they are all the same Opel Corsa, designed by Opel, engineered by Opel, and built/sold by Opel (and by GM subsidiaries all over the world as either a Opel, Chevrolet, or other brand) with Opel quality. Yet why is it a "GM" Corsa? This sounds like GM New Zealand way back in the 1980s when GM NZ tried (and failed) to make "GM" the main brand. Do we want another GM NZ on our hands? Who knows - maybe those complainers were right. Maybe the Daewoo Matiz should be the General Motors Matiz; the Chevrolet Malibu the General Motors Malibu; the Holden Commodore the General Motors Commodore; the ASEAN/Indian-market Chevrolet Tavera the General Motors Tavera; the Chevy Niva the General Motors Niva; etc. It doesn't stop there - how about the Ford Motor Company Taurus to cover the Taurus and Sable; the Ford Motor Company Explorer to cover the Mazda Navajo, the Mercury Mountaineer, the Lincoln Aviator, and the Ford Explorer; the Ford Motor Company Mondeo to cover the Ford Mondeo and the Jaguar X-Type; the DaimlerChrysler E-Class to cover the Merc E-Class, Dodge Charger/Magnum, and Chrysler 300; the PSA 307 for the Peugeot 307 and C4; the Toyota Motor Corporation Camry for the Toyota Camry, the Lexus ES, and the Daihatsu Altis; etc.? Do you see the absurdity of the artifical "GM" brand for cars like the Opel Corsa and Opel Astra? Therefore, I propose that in keeping with the home-market naming scheme, all cars that currently have the artifical "GM" name in them (the General Motors Agila, the General Motors Corsa, the General Motors Astra, the General Motors Zafira, and the discontinued General Motors Omega and General Motors Calibra are the ones I can think of off the top of my head) be changed to reflect their Opel heritage (i.e. the General Motors Calibra becomes the Opel Calibra; however the derivaties will also be given some mention - see the General Motors Zafira article).
I apologize if I sound a little bit harsh - must be my debating skills going a little bit out of hand. But this is one thing that can't be ignored for much longer. - Daniel Blanchette 16:47, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
-- 93JC 18:29, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed an inconsistency in the infoboxes for vehicles produced by the same manufacturer but sold under differen brand names. In the infoboxes for Jaguars, for example, it states that the manufacturer is "Jaguar Cars" which is the marque but not technically the manufacturer, but for the Rolls-Royce Phantom it states BMW as the manufacturer, same for Lincoln and Cadillac where we state Ford and GM as the manufacturer and Lexus where Toyota is stated as the manufacturer. Should we use the actual manufacturer such as Ford for Jag and Linc, GM for Caddi and Chevy, and VW for Bentley or should we use the marque under which the vehicles are sold such as Lincoln, Lexus, Infiniti, etc...? Thank you. Regards, Signature brendel 18:08, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
BMC --> Austin --> Austin Seven | | | +-> Morris --> Morris Mini Minor v BritishLeyland --> Mini | | | | | +-> Traveller | v | Innocenti (Italy) --> Mini v Authi (Spain) ----> Mini
...indicating that BMC manufactured the car under both the Austin and Morris marques with the car having different names in each case - with BMC becoming British Leyland who manufactured the car under a different set of names - and who had two other companies (subsidiaries or consortium members) making the car in other countries...possibly with other names. The trouble with this is that this diagram will be too complex to fit into an infobox in some cases - and we already have a complex set of templated diagrams that attempt to capture (with varying success) the tangled web of companies, parent companies, factory names, marques, car names and model names. SteveBaker 14:27, 9 April 2006 (UTC)
The manufactoring company is of course the juridical company that ownes the factory were the car is built. Quite simple really, some car brands are divisions meaning they get the mothercompany listed as manucatorer. Some companies are subsidiaries meaning they get their own name as manufactorer. -- Dahlis 01:02, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
It looks like the Mini article will be on the Wikipedia front page as 'Todays Featured Article' on April 17th. I'm told that vandalism is a HUGE problem for TFA's - so it would be nice if we could get more people to help patrol the article for vandalism on and around that day. Thanks in advance! SteveBaker 03:34, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Just as a heads up User:Ed g2s is removing all of the logos from the automobile templates because they are not allowed to be there under the fair use rules. When removing them, he uses FU for fair use, which I have told him is rude. In any event, I have placed a discussion point in the WP:FUP talk page to ask that the policy be amended to allow for logos in cases where the company is defunct, and used only in reference to those articles about the affiliates. I don't think it will fly, but its worth a chance. Stude62 21:13, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
Alternate solution: If the goal is simply to have the logo on each of the relevant car pages (eg. on pages where they're allowed under fair use), and to not change the visual layout of each of the pages (eg. still display the logo inside the box), then there's another way to do it: I modified {{BMW cars}} to take an optional parameter (image) [1], and then modified [[BMW Z4]] to include the 100px-wide logo, stating that it's believed the logo is allowed on that page under fair use [2]. It would be a bit of work to use this solution everywhere. But it allows the template to be used on pages where the logo isn't allowed under fair use. So maybe the solution would be somewhat acceptable to the various parties involved. -- Interiot 12:41, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
This debate seems to have 'fizzled' - both here and on WP:FUP - so I've started a formal request for a policy change. Please chime in on the discussion at: Wikipedia:Fair_use_images_in_templates:_exceptions - let's get company logos back on those templates! SteveBaker 14:25, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I would like to bring attention to the peer review requests on the Lexus LS and Lincoln Town Car articles. If anyone has the time and would like to make suggestions on the two articles, I would really appriciate it. Thank you. Regards, Signature brendel 05:56, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
Could someone with a keen eye take a look at the bio that I wrote for Edward S. Jordan (Ned Jordan)? Stude62 15:23, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
So, there seem to be a large number of short articles under Category:Automotive assembly plants. Is there any chance some of them could be merged together? If not, there's probably enough of them that we should create another stub category for them. Duesentrieb's CatScan lists 72 that are <750 chars. If there's no consensus on what to do in a couple days, I'll temporarily sort them into a separate stub category. -- Interiot 10:39, 12 April 2006 (UTC)
Since peer review comments on MINI (BMW) have dried up - I've moved it on to WP:FAC. You guys are well placed to comment on it - so I encourage you to check out the entry. Many thanks! SteveBaker 15:50, 13 April 2006 (UTC)
It is a great article. I hope it will get featured.-- Bud 04:55, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
Is this new stub compatible with the existing stub organization? So far, we haven't broken things out by car types, we've broken then out by manufacture date. If we further separated out {{ modern-auto-stub}}, wouldn't we do something like {{ modern-ford-auto-stub}} or {{ modern-wagon-auto-stub}}, rather than making a stub that's orthogonal to the existing structure? -- Interiot 12:31, 16 April 2006 (UTC)
On Lincoln LS article a recent probelm has arisen. There seems to be a small conflict of whether or not to include a link to the Lincoln LS Owner's Club (LSOC) web-site should be included. The problem is that most of the LSOC site is off-limits to non-members and thus requires payment. Should such links be included in an article? Any suggestions? Thanks. Regards, Signature brendel 05:38, 18 April 2006 (UTC)
There are some articles that would benefit from infoboxes having multiple photos. Particularly in the case of badge-engineered identical vehicles (Dodge Caravan / Plymouth Voyager, Toyota Corolla / Geo Prizm, etc.), it would be more parsimonious to have two photos and one set of specs. I have seen this attempted a couple of different ways, and have tried it myself, but none of the results has been entirely satisfactory. What's the concensus on how best to handle this? Scheinwerfermann 03:12, 19 April 2006 (UTC)
Is ghostriding a well-defined phrase? My gut feeling is to AfD it as a neologism, but I wanted to run it by you guys first. -- Interiot 12:00, 20 April 2006 (UTC)
As the current discussion page has reached 64 posts (65 posts if you count this one), I would like to archive the first 50, as was done in the first archive. Any suggestions, comments, objections? If there are no objections I will go ahead and archive the first 50 posts in a week (Afterall edits can always be reversed). Thank you. Regards, Signature brendel 00:32, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed that the articles on the eurovans (Sevel Nord Fiat/PSA minivans) contain minuscule amounts of individual content and consist mostly of the same information, which can be attributed to all eurovans. So, I have put together a provisional article on all eurovans, combining info from all previous articles ( Citroën Evasion, Citroen C8, Fiat Ulysse, Peugeot 806, Peugeot 807), as well as adding some more info (btw, thank you Sfoskett for great pages on PSA engines), e.g. concerning Lancias, who don't have articles currently.
I would like to ask about your views and comments on the article. It is a working version, I believe you will indicate many "areas for improvement", for which I thank you in advance :D
Would you think it would be appropriate to replace the current eurovans articles with this one, perhaps info on commercial vans should be added (Sevel Nord or the "Surs" too?) and then it should go in lieu of the entire Sevel Nord or even Sevel Van articles?
Thanks, Bravada 23:48, 21 April 2006 (UTC)
I've been editing a lot of articles about European cars lately (mainly French models), and I've noticed a lot of these articles still use old tables that are either incomplete or too short. Can somebody help me out with the task of converting these tables to infoboxes? Thanks. -- ApolloBoy 07:09, 22 April 2006 (UTC)
An anonymous user keeps adding information about a supposed 2011 Audi S4. Audi has not released any official information on the next-generation Audi A4, although German magazine Auto Bild has published a speculative piece on the next-gen's engineering and styling. This user first added his own speculations here, which, by his own reference, is based on this, although he has claimed to have inside information on Audi. Here, this user reduced the size of his speculations. Here, I actually added a better sourced piece of speculation, which actually refers to the S4. However, I am not happy with it, and would like consensus on the exclusion of any information about future models that does not come from any official sources. -- Pc13 08:47, 25 April 2006 (UTC)
I was wondering what we should do about concept vehicles? i think they should have some sort of template similar to the future products one. a lot of the information is heresay or read in magazines and just put up here with a photo.
a lot of the articles are also lacking information. so i think there should maybe be a stub template for concept vehicles. please share your ideas. ren0 talk 05:08, 28 April 2006 (UTC)
{{concept automobile|*}}
Well, i think i may have been drunk or something (if i even drank... pff), cause now that i look back i can't even make sense of what i was originally asking. i really agree that there shouldn't be a template for concept cars. even though it seems like i was aiming at that as my question. plus a lot of you made good, valid points. but then again obviously if a concept car is speculated to turn into a production model (think Plymouth Prowler, Chrysler PT Cruiser, Toyota FJ Cruiser, etc..) you would place the future vehicle on there, correct?
i do, however, think there should be a concept car stub. votes? thoughts? ren0 talk 00:28, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
A concept car stub is astually a good idea, but we have to see whether or not there are enough articles to justify such a move, which I think there are. Also, yes when a manufacturer states that a concept car will enter production such as in the case of the Lincoln MKS, it becomes a future vehicles article. Regards, Signature brendel 02:10, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
This brings about yet another issue - should we really have so many articles on "future", "speculative", "possible" vehicles (and many "vehicles somebody would want to come true"). Today's Edmunds says that the Astra-based compact Saab, previously rumored as 9-2, will be 9-1, and immediately there's a 9-1 article. But that's as speculative as can be, tomorrows paper might say it's 9-1.5x or something and then the
Saab 9-1 article would have to be deleted or what? Until GM provides us with a definitive press release, I think there are so many other uncovered REAL vehicles that we could focus on...
Bravada
Talk to me!
02:43, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
i have done some heavy editing in that article and i keep seeing people adding bullshit to the MKV section. they are trying to pass the information off and say its a "future vehicle" when it is not, and it never will be until toyota says otherwise (or they surprise us). then they go off and say blah blah, lexus. and try to say lexus will have the new sportscar (which is most likely true). lexus is a different marque of cars and shouldn't have info in the toyota supra article (obviously). then aside from that, i think toyota is smart enough that they WILL NOT release a new supra with a V8. they have always been straight-sixes and i'm willing to bet toyota will keep them that way (if they ever do release a new one).
so what should i do about this? i'm thinking just to remove it, and maybe add a section titled "future generations" and state that "toyota has continued to state there will be no more additions to the toyota supra line". (i have references.) maybe add some other things in there about how lexus is where toyota is putting any new sportscars. ideas? agreement? ren0 talk 00:28, 29 April 2006 (UTC)
I'm new to wikipedia. How do I join this wikiproject (it is my area of expertise)? Also, could someone please explain how the "Pages needed attention works" section works. Bok269 01:31, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Great, but how do I/We decide what goes on the list or where? bok269 21:21, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
I was thinking about what things the reader of an article about a particular car might be curious about. We have Infobox sections for "Predecessor" and "Successor" - which help you to understand what this design replaced - and what finally improved on it enough to obsolete it. But wouldn't it also be interesting to know what other cars were competitors at the time? That would allow readers to contrast other contemporary solutions to the same set of design problems. Hence, (to take my usual example), the Mini article's template could add "Competitors: VW Bug, Fiat 500, Citroen 2CV, Ford Anglia". That gives users a powerful navigational tool to find other, similar cars from the same era/price-range/performance-bracket. SteveBaker 21:15, 3 May 2006 (UTC)
Don't we already have such a section called "similar?" I think this sections is intended for featruing a vehicle's competitors for the reasons you listed. In the Lexus LS article I have used it to list all competitors. Regards, Signature brendel 00:25, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
The cut off date for this stub is given on the project page as 1900. The standard date in Britain is pre 1905 as given at Brass Era car. I cannot locate a reference to 1900 in any of the articles but I won't guarantee not to have missed something. Is there any reason for the 1900 date? Malcolma 08:54, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
The template at the bottom of Brass Era car doesn't agree with the body of the article either! Terms like 'Veteran', 'Antique' and 'Classic' have different meanings depending on who you talk to. Here in Texas, there are specific legal definitions for those terms because your tax, license, insurance and smog exemptions depend on which catagory your car falls into. SteveBaker 22:31, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I've joined this one, it's great to have a WikiProject on this!! -- Sunfazer | Talk 10:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm trying to get Honda Civic to featured article status. This article is good so far, but needs a bit more work to get it on the main page. If anyone can help me, let me know here or on my talk page. Thanks! -- Sunfazer | Talk 10:03, 13 May 2006 (UTC)
I have 300 pictures of exotic cars (Enzo, Carrera GT, 1930s Rolls, Murcierlago, DB4, Ford GT + many more) which I'll authorize for use under the Creative Commons Attribution License v. 2.5 with the byline of "By Brett Weinstein (Wikipedia User: Nrbelex) taken at the Scarsdale Concours in 2006". I have a picture of (almost) any of the cars on this list (which is a picture in a Word file) so leave a message on my talk page with requests. Nrbelex ( talk) 23:09, 21 May 2006 (UTC)
Cool - how should we find/link to them from articles? SteveBaker 02:06, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
All done. See the Commons. Thanks again for providing these great photos! -- SFoskett 18:22, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
I've edited one or two Mitsubishi-based articles, and one of the things I've noticed is the vast number of links to Owners' Clubs. I'm not opposed to them per se, but articles like the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution or Mitsubishi Eclipse have quite a few, many of them very "regional".
It's easy where a user has done nothing but spam their club and they're in violation of the Wikipedia:External_links policy ("Because of neutrality & point-of-view concerns, a primary policy of Wikipedia is that no one from a particular site/organization should post links to that organization/site etc. Because neutrality is such an important -- and difficult -- objective at Wikipedia, this takes precedence over other policies defining what should be linked."). But I've been reverting some linkspam by User:24.129.36.149 of 4g63hp.com and User:Jhrody of DodgeTuners.org, and it seems incongrous to delete one Owners' Club link while leaving six or seven others behind. Any consensus on how draconian we can be in this matter?
And just to make an open declaration, I am a member of clubvr4.com and I included a link to it in the article about the Galant VR-4. I thought it was OK in this particluar instance. ;) -- DeLarge 13:28, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
Actually, WP:EL says "forums should generally not be linked to". I don't know, maybe that's a bit harsh since clubs are an important part of car culture, but maybe if in doubt, it's best to discuss it in Talk, and/or remove forum links? -- Interiot 15:41, 22 May 2006 (UTC)
I believe that the intent of the admonition in WP:EL is to tell people not to link to the CONTENT in forums because it tends to be ephemeral. I don't think it would be inappropriate to have ONE link to some kind of single international owner's club or umberella organisation. I think it's highly inappropriate to link to local owner club forums because to do a comprehensive job would require hundreds or perhaps thousands of such links - and Wikipedia is not a link directory. I think a reader who wanted to find out about a particular kind of car would be very interested to find an owner club - so pointing to a place where they could find one would be a good thing. SteveBaker 02:05, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Yes, here is something you can do DeLarge, STOP MAKING ASSUMPTIONS! You have accused me time and time again of owning a car club I DO NOT OWN NOR OPERATE. If you have proof then give it to us, otherwise, stop harrassing me.
Here is another recommendation, DO NOT DICTATE. You do NOT own the page and I don't either, it belongs to everyone, leave it that way. -- User:68.101.64.76 20:28, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
-- CBecker 21:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
First I'd like to say hello to everyone, as I'm both new to this project and Wikipedia in general. However in the few days I've been reviewing this project page and the discussions going on behind the scenes, I've noticed a great lack of direction and uniformity (in regards mainly to automobile model pages, specificly). I've noticed that there is general agreement that there should be an infobox, but as to what information it contains and how that information is displayed there is no general consensus (unless I'm overlooking one). There also seems to be no agreed upon example page, which is pretty disheartening. This project has been going on for a while now and yet there's no definite example to go by? I also noticed that there seems to be no uniform layout for all those templates. Compare the Volkswagen Group to the Ford to the Lancia templates (though if I could vote for the style I like best I'd pick the Lancia one...). If there really is to be some uniformity regarding model pages, I think we're all going to have to reach a consensus as soon as possible regarding page layout, infobox layout (and what information to include), external links layout (and what to include/exclude), templates, and any other aspects of a common Wikipedia entry that I failed to mention. With this consensus, throw an example page together and we'll all go from there. If I'm overlooking anything that has already been officially decided, it's probably because there is no clear mention of it on the main project page. Any official decisions made about layout etc I definitely vote should be referenced on the main page. What a great idea for a project, and if any online community can pull it off it's this one. Now it just needs to be more standardized and uniform. Questions? Responses to questions? Comments?
I think we really should have a "model article" to link to, at least regarding layout. Unfortunately, current selected articles are not quite good examples here - either they do not comply (like don't use infoboxes) or are quite peculiar and don't give a good overview. I think an example article should:
What do you think about it? What are your propositions? Bravada, talk - 01:36, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
-- CBecker 21:54, 23 May 2006 (UTC)
Moreso even than the model pages, currently I'm most interested in the topic of automaker companies/parent companies/groups of companies/etc. I was wondering if there has been any thought put into how to organize and interlink pages about these companies. I've seen some of the templates (most of which could really use a standardized makeover) but is there an example page to go by for layout and other aspects? If not, I vote we get on that, too. If a company like GM owns many subcompanies (Chevy, Hummer, Pontiac, Saab, GMC, etc etc etc) in the same way that a company like VAG owns subcompanies (VW and Audi), many of which own further subcompanies (VW owns Bentley, Bugatti, VW, etc; Audi owns Lamborghini, SEAT, Audi...), and most of which work with other sub-companies within the same parent company and other companies altogether.... if you don't follow, my point is proven. It's a confusing mess. So for the good of all, I propose that any company linked to another (sub-/parent-/partner-/etc-) company, be done in an easily understandable, uniform method, perhaps through a template with a standardized layout (though obviously the contained information would change depending upon which companies it is linking). Again, any official decisions should be noted on the main page of this project for all contributors to access easily and use in their updates and new pages. Thoughts?
It has come to my attention that there is a heated debate happening right now on all of the Volvo pages. Ford Motor Company has been the manufacturer of all Volvos since Ford's acquisition of Volvo in 1998. Therefore, "Ford Motor Company" is listed as the manufacturer on each current-model Volvo page ( Volvo C70, Volvo S60, Volvo S80, etc). Recently, however, at least two Swedish Wikipedians have been removing FMC as the manufacturer and replacing it with "Volvo Cars," blindly denying Ford's involvement.
My question is this: Should Ford be listed as the manufacturer on Volvo pages (as it is on the Jaguar and Land Rover pages), or do you think these two people are right in listing Volvo as the manufacturer? And what can we do to stop all of the fierce arguments that are happening because of this issue? Jagvar 14:28, 25 May 2006 (UTC)
I'm new to Wikipedia. I have noticed that many automotive articles don't link to the official site of the Auto/Automaker. Should I add the link when I see it isn't there? Does that violate any copyrights? Bok269 01:56, 26 May 2006 (UTC)
The Concept car page has a subsection titled "Some Concept Cars." As the name suggests, it is imcomplete. An idea I had is that whenever someone comes across, adds, or edits a page about a concept car, check the page, and if that car is not there, add it to the list, and add a quick description as with the rest of the list. Bok269 20:17, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
There actually is a page called Concept Car. For whatever reason it is not linking from this page properly. Maybe instead of that subsection, it should just link to that category. Bok269 02:39, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Maybe we should take a vote as to whether to expand the list on the article, or to eliminate it and link to the category. I'm more than happy to take the cars from the list and put them on the Concept car page. Let me know. Bok269 15:16, 28 May 2006 (UTC)
Could someone with chart skills overhaul the Volvo timeline? The date intervals are not to scale, and the current cars do not extend past 2006, as other manufacturer's cars do. None of these vehicles have been announced to cease production. Bok269 23:32, 29 May 2006 (UTC)
I wanted to get some input on creating something like {{automobileindex}} to use instead of {{ disambig}} on pages that are solely devoted to choosing between separate automobile pages. WP:MOSDAB is somewhat strict in its formatting rules, and while I agree with them for general disambig articles, the style guidelines can be a little too strict for subject-specific articles. WikiProject Ships has created {{ shipindex}} based on this discussion and others at WP:MOSDAB, and I think the same sort of thing applies to many auto disambigs. This is a list of automobiles currently marked with {{ disambig}}, and the Mercedes articles stand out as ones that definitely would be a stretch to fit into WP:MOSDAB. Anyway, it would take a bit of work to undo, so I wanted to run it by other people first. -- Interiot 20:38, 30 May 2006 (UTC)
There seem to have been a bazillion links to the classic-cars-online.co.uk website added to car articles across Wikipedia. I checked out the IP address of the vandal and it belongs to the same ISP that hosts the classic-cars-online website - so it's pretty clear that this is linkspam of the worst kind. I emailed the 'contact' address at that website and told them in pretty strong terms that this isn't acceptable. Does someone have a 'bot that can clear them all out? SteveBaker 15:38, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
The main wikipedia MoS on numbers, dates, and units is pretty useless when it comes to all the nonstandard units we use (cc or cm³ instead of mL, ci or in³ instead of, I dunno, fl.oz?, rpm instead of Hz, etc). Do we have a standard or even a guideline for units anywhere? It can be pretty confusing.
I've noticed a few de facto conventions, such as displaying the US unit for torque as ft·lbf rather than as ft-lb or lb-ft or common but horribly incorrect variants like "ft/lb" or "tq".
— AKADriver ☎ 16:12, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I guess this answers most of your questions -> Wikipedia:WikiProject_Automobiles/Conventions Bravada, talk - 16:29, 1 June 2006 (UTC)
I am happy to inform you that Lancia Flaminia has just been promoted to Good Article status! This is in no small way thanks to Steve's generous contributions to improve the article and procure a free photo!
Thus, our still small collection of Good and Featured articles continues to grow, and I hope soon we will hear of more good news like that. In the meantime, I encourage you to nominate some better articles you know, and also improve other with references so that we could nominate them too! Perhaps we might also consider concentrating our efforts by means of something like a COTW. Bravada, talk - 16:07, 2 June 2006 (UTC)
I created an article on ex-WRC driver Pentti Airikkala a while back, and in the course of creating Wikilinks I came across what I think is a bit of a problem.
All the individual events in the WRC calendar have their own articles (accessed by selecting on of the years listed on the WRC results page), but they include the names of the sponsors in the title. While this is accurate for recent years, it makes historical records erroneous. For example, Airikkala competed in the New Zealand Rally in 1979. The "live" page is Propecia Rally of New Zealand, but Propecia only came on board in 2001; in 1979 the sponsor was Motogard [5]. I don't think it's encyclopedic to include the sponsors names in the title, but I think about 10 of the race articles are currently affected in this way.
As far as possible, I've checked the official website of each event to see what they call themselves, and I've double-checked that against the list of events on the Rallybase.nl website [6]. I came up with what I reckon the articles should be called, and listed them on my userpage. However, I don't want to start renaming/redirecting manually without some discussion. Also, if anyone can automate the renaming process to cover the problem of creating numerous dead links all of a sudden, I'd be grateful for their assistance. -- DeLarge 18:42, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
Cheers for the feedback - I've now created the articles, with appropriate redirects to hopefully avoid red linkage. All I have left to do now is to build or repair the pages covering the last 34 years' worth of WRC results and I'll be done. -- DeLarge 21:46, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Hello! I'm Fluence from Mexico and I just joined the WikiProject last Friday. As my first contribution I made a list including all cars sold at the moment in Mexico. I think that if I live in Mexico I can contribute to the Project by adding info of cars in my country. Previously I created the Clio V6 Renault Sport article as I'm fan of Renault. Hope this help to the Renault main article. As you can see my nickname is in fact a Renault car (I'll do its article, Renault Fluence soon) Fluence 23:28, 5 June 2006 (UTC)
I forgot to give the article's page. That is Cars in Mexico Fluence 01:17, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Great idea, Bravada. That would actually be an intereting project to have articles that list the vehicles for a given market. Do we already have such an article for the US and Canada? Otherwise I'd like to create one and the names Cars in America or List of cars in America arn't used. I just got through creating the List of largest passenger vehicles in the United States,and am thinking about creating a Cars in America article, similar to the Cars in Mexico article. The article I am proposing would however be in a table format like the main table on the List of car manufacturers I recently created. Regards, Signature brendel 21:23, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
Now that the article is up and running (Still under construction though), I would like to invite everyone to make suggestion and help build this article; Passenger vehicles in the United States. As always, thanks for contributing. Best Regards, Signature brendel 03:20, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
As I see on the project page that Renault articles were needed I just made the article for the Mégane Renault Sport, one of my favourite cars. I'm working also on the Renault Fluence artcle:D Fluence 00:49, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I found that info in a magazine so sadly I cannot cite references:( I will look up for some later:) 148.221.178.138 01:08, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
I think auto shows is a topic poor in information. There is information about some auto shows but the pages are full of red links. I think we need to put more attention to these, don't you think? For the moment, I created the article for the Mexico Autoshow:) Fluence 00:41, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Yesterday, a user added the section "Recent Quality Issues" to the Mercedes-Benz page. I'm just not sure what to make of it. The user alleged that Mercedes models from the first half of this decade are of poor quality, but he backed up his allegations with numerous links to automotive reviews.
I commend this user for backing up his arguments with statistics and links, but I still feel this section is very biased. Any of the reviews and ratings systems the user provided can be countered with reviews and ratings that argue the exact opposite. Reviews are not very objective.
Unless someone can actually cite figures that illustrate an increase in recalls and repairs for these model years, I feel the "quality issues" section should be removed. Any thoughts? Jagvar 19:12, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
I have recently expanded the
Talbot Tagora article considerably and started wondering whether it might be a good candidate for GA or even FA. Before I put it through formal "general" peer review, I would like to ask for your opinions first. In particular, I would appreciate native speakers' opinions on (and corrections to) the language and style, as well as all other general remakrs regarding the suitability of this article. If you find errors concerning factual accuracy, please do provide a better reference if you can! Feel free to edit the article accordingly.
Bravada,
talk -
14:41, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
NOTE: Please DO NOT change the "Powertrains and versions" section into a table, unless you have a really really really good idea for it, and not the usual grayish table!
UPDATE: It's been over a week since I posted this, and only one user decided to review this article and present his comments (nevertheless, they it was a very thorough and insightful review, which helped a lot in improving the article - thank you very much, DeLarge!) So, now I moved to the next step and requested for this article to be peer reviewed within the formal WP:PR process. You can contribute too @ Wikipedia:Peer review/Talbot Tagora/archive1. Thanks! Bravada, talk - 17:36, 21 June 2006 (UTC)
Hello. As some people already know, I have created a Holden template, but I need some additional people to look at it before I make it official. Some people have already commented on it, but I need some others to look at it. Please bear with me, as this is my first attempt at a template, so I need all the opinions I can get! - Daniel Blanchette 01:10, 12 June 2006 (UTC)
There is an article for the GTO that covers all the generations. There is also one titled Pontiac GTO (2004) that has both the Monaro based and Zeta-based model. SHould we merge it back into the larger article. There are other cars that have individual articles for each generation. Should we merge those as well? Or, should we restrict that page to the Monaro generation and move the Zeta-based model to its own article? Bok269 01:29, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
That makes sense, but do we need to have the Zeta in there as well? It seems to contradict the title. Maybe have Pontiac GTO (Zeta) redirect to a section in the Zeta article about the GTO (it would require expansion of the Zeta article)? Bok269 15:45, 15 June 2006 (UTC)
I meant a Pontiac GTO section of the GM Zeta platform article. Bok269 00:04, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
I am interested in making units consistent and have taken part in discussions here. I have created a simple tool that makes the task quicker. If you want to use it, feel free. Simply copy the entire contents of User:Bobblewik/monobook.js to your own monobook. Then follow the instructions in your monobook to clear the cache (i.e. press Ctrl-Shift-R in Firefox, or Ctrl-F5 in IE) before it will work. This will give you a 'units' tab to press in edit mode. Hope that helps. bobblewik 19:25, 16 June 2006 (UTC)
We had a quite sunny day today, so I decided to go for a walk and grabbed a camera. I took some photos of my neighbourhood, including some cars unsuspecting owners left unguarded in the area I roamed. Two of them (car pics) are even actually OK. At first I was very proud of myself and the possibility of contributing to Wikipedia this way, but after I came home, edited and uploaded them to Commons, my enthusiasm faded - especially after I compared them to the pics illustrating the articles on the subjects at present. I would be grateful if you would spare a moment and look at my photos page and tell me what you think of them - preferably on teh appropriate talk page. Thanks! Bravada, talk - 00:06, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I don't see anything wrong with them. If the article allows, you can certainly load both.-- Bud 09:08, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
For what it's worth, body kit seems like an article that really obviously needs a picture. I did a pretty quick scan of the commons/yotophoto/flickr, but didn't find anything (though most probably don't explicitely say "body kit"). If all else fails, this image (of a 350z Veilside body kit) might work. -- 0x845FED 14:02, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
I have noticed (correct me if I am wrong) that we do not have many articles on the development of cars, such as prototypes and mules. Also, we don't have one on Spy Photos? Should I start them? Bok269 00:15, 18 June 2006 (UTC)
I agree with you. But, something to keep in mind is that many of the future speculation is based off of insider information from the manufacturers. The future automobile template mentions that most of the info is speculatory. As for the Ferrari, many believed it was the 600 Imola. I would guess that that was based off of insider info and that the name change was a recent decision. Bok269 14:02, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
Good point. I'll take that into consideration when I write the articles. Bok269 18:33, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I proposed this on a user's page, and someone thought I should put it here, too. If we're going to be consistent on Wikipedia when it comes to cars, we have to come up with some standard for doors. We've got a lot of articles that say 2-door coupe, but 3-door or 5-door hatchback, and then back to 2-door wagon and 4-door SUV. This is not consistent at all, because the "extra" door is no less integral to the hatchback design than it is to the wagon or SUV, and in all cases that door accesses the rear of the cabin.
So, I think we have two options. First, we keep the hatchback labels the same, but say 3-door wagon and 5-door wagon and 5-door SUV. This is the approach Car & Driver and GlobalAutoIndex take.
The other option is to use 4-door sedan, 4-door hatchback, and 4-door wagon (Motor Trend, Automobile Magazine, Edmunds.com, ConsumerGuide, Consumer Reports, and my own Carsinamerica.net all use this format). This is preferable, since it distinguishes that doors are for people, liftgates and hatches are for luggage. (And to anticipate, wagons with a rear-facing 3rd-row seat have such seating as more or less a jump seat; it can usually be removed and the general use of the area is for cargo).Therefore, the only time "odd" numbers of doors would be used would be on old extended-cab pickup trucks and mini/maxivans. And as one other reminder, only use +2 doors if the rear door cannot be independently opened, such that the Mazda RX-8 is a 2+2-door, but the Rolls-Royce Phantom is a 4-door.
The second option is more concrete than the first, but either one is better than 5-door hatchback but 4-door wagon, which is both inconsistent and illogical.
Sacxpert
09:12, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
I've always been bugged by this, but all the press I've seen (in Britain) have always gone with 2 & 4 doors for saloons/sedans and estates/wagons, and 3 & 5 doors for hatchbacks. It was a marketing ploy by the early hatchback makers, I seem to remember, to make us think we were getting something extra that "old-fashioned" bodystyles didn't have.
(Urgh - too much indentation!) The problem with using Sacxpert's idea of saying: '2-door sedan' and '2-door coupe' is that those terms don't translate very well between US and British dialects - and even in the US their definitions are horribly vague. I'm a Brit who lives in the US - so I'm something of an expert on these kinds of linguistic confusion. British people don't use the word 'sedan' - and if they did, the image that comes to mind is of some kind of big, ugly American car that drives like a boat...when in fact the term would apply to a Mini here in the USA. Coupe is even worse because even Americans can't agree on the definition and a good fraction of Brits would probably associate it with the French word 'coup' meaning 'cut' and would guess that you were talking about a car with the roof cut off...a convertible. There was a huge argument about this kind of confusion on the Mini page when I strictly interpreted the definition of a coupe rather than calling the car a sedan as Americans would classify it. So it would be much better to come up with some more transatlantic-neutral way of expressing the number of doors. That's why I'd prefer to not rely on those terms. Why not simply list the doors the vehicle has - along with their function? It works much more clearly - and has the same meaning no matter what English dialect you speak. Things get worse when you get into weird machines like the 3-door 4 seat BMW Isetta (that's 3 passenger doors - one at the front). What about the SmartCar - or worse still the new retro Citroen-2CV (is it a convertible? A T-top? A sedan? A coupe?) - or the Mini Moke or the Ariel Atom (no doors at all!) These terms fall apart and have confusing cultural connotations. It's not so bad that the terms are vague and confusing when they are merely descriptive of an overall style - but when you are trying to say that this car does or doesn't have a cargo door, that confusion becomes much more serious. SteveBaker 18:26, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
The argument about English dialects has raged back and forth on Wikipedia since time immemorial - the policy has been talked to death and we aren't going to change it here. There has to be a way to end these kinds of disputes - and the way is to apply the rule. Obviously in cases where there is no disagreement then by all means break the rules - but where there is dispute, the dispute has to end - and in the interests of productivity and harmony, it has to end quickly - so apply the rule - there are more important things you can do for Wikipedia than to argue against such a well established policy. I've been talking about US and UK dialects because thats where the problems seem to come up the most - but obviously we have to use the same degree of tolerance for the other major English dialects too. Whilst it can be hard for a UK English speaker to write Australian English with confidence. I think most educated Americans can remember to write 'colour' and most Brits can fake 'Hood' and 'Trunk' instead of 'Bonnet' and 'Boot' - but we're all here for each other - when we slip up - let's quietly correct problems and do it with good grace. SteveBaker 03:05, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
I noticed today a few pages getting tagged with [[Category:Auto parts]] - which seems like a good thing - so I tagged a few more parts that had gotten missed. Then I noticed some articles with {{auto parts stub}} - and other articles with BOTH tags. Shouldn't all articles about car parts (whether stubs or not) be given [[Category:Auto parts]]? In many cases there just isn't much to say about a particular car part. My recent article Nerf bar is pretty much just a stub - but there really isn't all that much to say about a tube you bolt onto a truck to make a step! If we don't add the [[Category:Auto parts]] tag to stub articles then people won't be able to find them when they look at the auto parts catagory page. So I think stubs do need the [[Category:Auto parts]] tag - no matter how short they are. SteveBaker 13:49, 19 June 2006 (UTC)
There is this one user who keeps insisting that the AMC Matador is actually the distant predecessor of the Chrysler LH-cars and the current LX-cars. He keeps adding the Eagle Premier, Eagle Vision and Chrysler 300M as "successors" to the Matador, even though the Matador was never really replaced in AMC's lineup. I keep removing this because most of his information is somewhat false and it does smell of of original research. He recently confronted me about it, and told me to "knock it off" and accused me of vandalism, when I had no such intentions. What should I do? -- ApolloBoy 00:05, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
User:Wiarthurhu has mentioned "a book of US cars to 1990 which establishes that the next AMC midsize was the Premier."
If no-one objects, I'm going to leave a message on his
talk page requesting an ISBN reference which can be cited in the article. If he can't provide that, I'd be happy to see it removed, since the article as it stands makes only a very tenuous link between the vehicles (i.e. A --> ten year gap --> B --> C does not really equal A --> C).
--
DeLarge
10:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
UPDATE:
I don't think anyone disputes which AMC midsize came after the Matador. The problem is that the next one came TEN YEARS after the Matador ceased production and shared essentially zero parts with it, was styled totally differently and had a totally different name - so the claim that one was the successor to the other is pretty tough to justify. I have one of those four references (The Great Book of American Automobiles) and I don't think it says anything like Wiarthurhu thinks it does - of course, one of the other three might contradict that. SteveBaker 13:10, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Nowww they tell me the party is here. If the Impala nameplate is discarded and revived 20 years later, it would be a succesor. If the rebel turns into a nearly identical Matador, it's a sucessor. If AMC eventually fields another large car after abandoning the Matador, it is logically the last of a long line of large cars starting with the 1930s Nash Ambassador, both are linked by market position and company. Such an assertion shouldn't be labeled as "vandalism" or "nonsense" as was initially stated by Apolloboy. There is certainly no debate that the Premier->LH->LX sequence, or the Ambassador->Rebel->Matador sequence. Is there a law that says that the link between the two lines must be cut, and if so, why does Apolloboy have the right to declare it "nonsense"? I happen to have once been a youth that thought a Matador would be a cool car to have today, and find that the closest identifiable legacy is the 300C and Charger. If ford waits 20 years for the next Thunderbird, is that then no longer a succesor? If Ford doesn't replace the contour until the fusion, is the successor the Taurus and Focus, or the Fusion? If somebody writes that the Ford Cortina was a predecessor to the Pinto, can it be ripped up the the comment "removed vandalism"? Is that the way things work around here? -- Wiarthurhu 00:24, 23 June 2006 (UTC)
I stumbled across this when an editor made a change on the List of automotive superlatives page. The smallest four cylinder diesel belongs to the Fiat Panda, and the link was changed from [[Fiat Panda]] to [[New Fiat Panda]]. My initial reaction was: "well, that'll be a red link to fix", but no, apparently there's an Old Fiat Panda page and a New Fiat Panda page. I didn't think the titles were very encyclopedic, and neither of them have a huge amount of content either, so I couldn't quite see why they'd be separate. Turns out the editors apparently want to keep them apart. [9] [10] I think it might be something to do with Template:Modern European Fiat vehicles. Before I attach a {{merge}} tag to it, I thought I'd invite discussion. -- DeLarge 19:02, 23 June 2006 (UTC)