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I've sone some research into the 1930 Brownlow Medal, and I'm not sure I'm meeting the WP:V hurdle (or breaking the OR rules) for one conclusion. Looking for the team's opinion and any other info that can be added.
I've included all of the above in some way, but been intentionally vague about whether the 'percentage of votes to games played' rule was intended to be the primary criterion for victory or a tie-breaker. At the moment, it's mentioned in the 'tie-breakers' section of the Brownlow Medal article. The main question is does the above represent a sufficiently verifiable body of references to move the 'highest percentage' criterion out of the tie-breakers section and into the primary conditions section?
Annoyingly as an aside, I cannot find any reference to state when 'highest votes' was changed to 'highest percentage vs games', leaving a critical gap in the chronology which makes the above difficult to explain in articles. I highly suspect it was changed only that year in 1930, but definitely can't verify it. My reasoning is that in 1929 per this article it was decided not to award votes during interstate game weekends, presumably to even out the Brownlow disadvantage a player might have by playing in a state game; counting the votes from subsequent years indicates that this policy did not continue – making it highly conceivable that it was dropped in 1930 and replaced with the 'highest percentage vs games' clause which had the same intent. If anyone ever finds something in a reference about when this rule was added, I'd be very interested. Aspirex ( talk) 21:15, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
The user Nhoj1898 is adding icons to the page, and continues doing so with no explanation (against WP:BRD), despite my reverting and explaining that it is against the consensus. Could someone else please weigh in, as I really don't feel like getting into an editwar over it? -- SuperJew ( talk) 10:41, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
WP:MOSICONS discourages icons as decoration, and using an icon to repeat the meaning of its adjacent word does qualify as that. I recall having this discussion as a project a few years back and concluding no club jumper icons, so I support sticking to that approach. Aspirex ( talk) 00:26, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
Any reason why you have changed the title @ Aspirex: to "AFL Women's season seven"? I'm just considering how this will look from an encyclopedic perspective in 20 years time to some neutral reader... 2020 AFLW season, 2021 AFLW season, 2022 AFLW season, AFLW season 7, 2023 AFLW season...seems unnecessarily confusing. Do we now keep the 2022 (B) reference where it is mentioned on other pages and in templates? This is obviously a transition period for the league, from next year onwards the league will revert to playing 1 season per calendar year, so splitting the two distinct 2022 seasons into (A) and (B) seems more logical than adopting the league's own generic long-winded title. Pinging other regular users because I'd like their perspective - @ 4TheWynne:, @ Nhoj1898:, @ SuperJew:, @ Thejoebloggsblog:. Global-Cityzen ( talk) 13:24, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
Bringing up a discussion I had with 4TheWynne ( here) for more widespread discussion:
I noticed for a while that the "coaching changes" on season pages list the changes as happening post-season. For example: 2020 AFL season includes Rhyce Shaw stepping down which happened after the end of the season. My suggestion is to have the coaching changes appear as pre-season (or mid-season of course), as this is the season they will affect. If we look at the previous example, David Noble coming in as Norf's coach affects the 2021 AFL season and has no bearing on 2020. With this change, it would also make sense to move the section to the beginning of the page.
Cheers, -- SuperJew ( talk) 18:51, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
I agree. Certainly I always organize the Carlton season pages that way. It only gets messy with caretakers who come in with few games left - i.e. Noble goes in the 2022 page as replaced by Adams with six games left; and in my view it should be Noble again who is listed as outgoing in 2023's page. (But when Malthouse got the flick from Carlton in early 2015, I probably would have put Barker as outgoing in the 2016 article). Thoughts on how to deal with grey cases like this? Aspirex ( talk) 22:19, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
On the Talk page of the above article, I tried to draw attention to a problem I perceived with a recent addition to the article. Two editors have responded with what I consider to be less than helpful responses. Would love to see the thoughts of others please. HiLo48 ( talk) 10:18, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
Hey guys – hope everyone's doing well. Yes, it's back to that old topic again... some of us love them, some of us love to hate them... statistics tables. But don't worry, this one's a fun one.
The way that AFL/AFLW statistics tables are currently formatted, we have manually-added zebra stripes that bunch up and look all messy when you sort a column, so long story short, I went in search of a solution (after trying JavaScript) and was eventually presented with Template:Alternating rows table. All we would need to do is change the format at the AFL player statistics start templates and remove the manual stripes from all of the existing tables, and voilà, we've made yet another accessibility-related improvement to these tables. Take, for example, Tony Lockett's table, as it's currently formatted:
Season | Team | No. | Games | Totals | Averages (per game) | ||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
G | B | K | H | D | M | T | G | B | K | H | D | M | T | ||||
1983 | St Kilda | 37 | 12 | 19 | 17 | 76 | 26 | 102 | 44 | — | 1.6 | 1.4 | 6.3 | 2.2 | 8.5 | 3.7 | — |
1984 | St Kilda | 14 | 20 | 77 | 44 | 146 | 19 | 165 | 108 | — | 3.9 | 2.2 | 7.3 | 1.0 | 8.3 | 5.4 | — |
1985 | St Kilda | 14 | 21 | 79 | 22 | 146 | 32 | 178 | 112 | — | 3.8 | 1.0 | 7.0 | 1.5 | 8.5 | 5.3 | — |
1986 | St Kilda | 14 | 18 | 60 | 29 | 119 | 36 | 155 | 85 | — | 3.3 | 1.6 | 6.6 | 2.0 | 8.6 | 4.7 | — |
1987 | St Kilda | 14 | 22 | 117 | 52 | 226 | 49 | 275 | 164 | 16 | 5.3 | 2.4 | 10.3 | 2.2 | 12.5 | 7.5 | 0.7 |
1988 | St Kilda | 4 | 8 | 35 | 19 | 65 | 19 | 84 | 44 | 6 | 4.4 | 2.4 | 8.1 | 2.4 | 10.5 | 5.5 | 0.8 |
1989 | St Kilda | 4 | 11 | 78 | 24 | 122 | 18 | 140 | 92 | 5 | 7.1 | 2.2 | 11.1 | 1.6 | 12.7 | 8.4 | 0.5 |
1990 | St Kilda | 4 | 12 | 65 | 34 | 112 | 16 | 128 | 84 | 11 | 5.4 | 2.8 | 9.3 | 1.3 | 10.7 | 7.0 | 0.9 |
1991 | St Kilda | 4 | 17 | 127 | 51 | 190 | 33 | 223 | 140 | 7 | 7.5 | 3.0 | 11.2 | 1.9 | 13.1 | 8.2 | 0.4 |
1992 | St Kilda | 4 | 22 | 132 | 58 | 214 | 30 | 244 | 157 | 12 | 6.0 | 2.6 | 9.7 | 1.4 | 11.1 | 7.1 | 0.5 |
1993 | St Kilda | 4 | 10 | 53 | 12 | 85 | 26 | 111 | 63 | 7 | 5.3 | 1.2 | 8.5 | 2.6 | 11.1 | 6.3 | 0.7 |
1994 | St Kilda | 4 | 10 | 56 | 26 | 100 | 16 | 116 | 76 | 7 | 5.6 | 2.6 | 10.0 | 1.6 | 11.6 | 7.6 | 0.7 |
1995 | Sydney | 4 | 19 | 110 | 44 | 176 | 42 | 218 | 139 | 16 | 5.8 | 2.3 | 9.3 | 2.2 | 11.5 | 7.3 | 0.8 |
1996 | Sydney | 4 | 22 | 121 | 63 | 212 | 45 | 257 | 168 | 21 | 5.5 | 2.9 | 9.6 | 2.0 | 11.7 | 7.6 | 1.0 |
1997 | Sydney | 4 | 12 | 37 | 21 | 65 | 23 | 88 | 50 | 7 | 3.1 | 1.8 | 5.4 | 1.9 | 7.3 | 4.2 | 0.6 |
1998 | Sydney | 4 | 23 | 109 | 36 | 167 | 41 | 208 | 121 | 9 | 4.7 | 1.6 | 7.3 | 1.8 | 9.0 | 5.3 | 0.4 |
1999 | Sydney | 4 | 19 | 82 | 38 | 141 | 27 | 168 | 112 | 15 | 4.3 | 2.0 | 7.4 | 1.4 | 8.8 | 5.9 | 0.8 |
2002 | Sydney | 46 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 3 | 1.0 | 0.0 | 1.7 | 0.7 | 2.3 | 0.3 | 1.0 |
Career | 281 | 1360 | 590 | 2367 | 500 | 2867 | 1760 | 142 | 4.8 | 2.1 | 8.4 | 1.8 | 10.2 | 6.3 | 0.7 |
Here is what the table would look like with the start template reformatted, the manual stripes removed and the other changes applied that we've discussed here but haven't yet applied to this table:
Season | Team | No. | Games | Totals | Averages (per game) | Votes | ||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
G | B | K | H | D | M | T | G | B | K | H | D | M | T | |||||
1983 | St Kilda | 37 | 12 | 19 | 17 | 76 | 26 | 102 | 44 | — | 1.6 | 1.4 | 6.3 | 2.2 | 8.5 | 3.7 | — | 0 |
1984 | St Kilda | 14 | 20 | 77 | 44 | 146 | 19 | 165 | 108 | — | 3.9 | 2.2 | 7.3 | 1.0 | 8.3 | 5.4 | — | 7 |
1985 | St Kilda | 14 | 21 | 79 | 22 | 146 | 32 | 178 | 112 | — | 3.8 | 1.0 | 7.0 | 1.5 | 8.5 | 5.3 | — | 3 |
1986 | St Kilda | 14 | 18 | 60 | 29 | 119 | 36 | 155 | 85 | — | 3.3 | 1.6 | 6.6 | 2.0 | 8.6 | 4.7 | — | 1 |
1987 | St Kilda | 14 | 22 | 117† | 52 | 226 | 49 | 275 | 164 | 16 | 5.3† | 2.4 | 10.3 | 2.2 | 12.5 | 7.5 | 0.7 | 20± |
1988 | St Kilda | 4 | 8 | 35 | 19 | 65 | 19 | 84 | 44 | 6 | 4.4 | 2.4 | 8.1 | 2.4 | 10.5 | 5.5 | 0.8 | 3 |
1989 | St Kilda | 4 | 11 | 78 | 24 | 122 | 18 | 140 | 92 | 5 | 7.1† | 2.2 | 11.1 | 1.6 | 12.7 | 8.4 | 0.5 | 10 |
1990 | St Kilda | 4 | 12 | 65 | 34 | 112 | 16 | 128 | 84 | 11 | 5.4† | 2.8† | 9.3 | 1.3 | 10.7 | 7.0 | 0.9 | 3 |
1991 | St Kilda | 4 | 17 | 127† | 51 | 190 | 33 | 223 | 140 | 7 | 7.5† | 3.0 | 11.2 | 1.9 | 13.1 | 8.2 | 0.4 | 16 |
1992 | St Kilda | 4 | 22 | 132 | 58 | 214 | 30 | 244 | 157 | 12 | 6.0 | 2.6 | 9.7 | 1.4 | 11.1 | 7.1 | 0.5 | 10 |
1993 | St Kilda | 4 | 10 | 53 | 12 | 85 | 26 | 111 | 63 | 7 | 5.3 | 1.2 | 8.5 | 2.6 | 11.1 | 6.3 | 0.7 | 5 |
1994 | St Kilda | 4 | 10 | 56 | 26 | 100 | 16 | 116 | 76 | 7 | 5.6† | 2.6 | 10.0 | 1.6 | 11.6 | 7.6 | 0.7 | 7 |
1995 | Sydney | 4 | 19 | 110 | 44 | 176 | 42 | 218 | 139 | 16 | 5.8† | 2.3 | 9.3 | 2.2 | 11.5 | 7.3 | 0.8 | 7 |
1996 | Sydney | 4 | 22 | 121† | 63† | 212 | 45 | 257 | 168 | 21 | 5.5† | 2.9† | 9.6 | 2.0 | 11.7 | 7.6 | 1.0 | 14 |
1997 | Sydney | 4 | 12 | 37 | 21 | 65 | 23 | 88 | 50 | 7 | 3.1 | 1.8 | 5.4 | 1.9 | 7.3 | 4.2 | 0.6 | 1 |
1998 | Sydney | 4 | 23 | 109† | 36 | 167 | 41 | 208 | 121 | 9 | 4.7† | 1.6 | 7.3 | 1.8 | 9.0 | 5.3 | 0.4 | 15 |
1999 | Sydney | 4 | 19 | 82 | 38 | 141 | 27 | 168 | 112 | 15 | 4.3† | 2.0 | 7.4 | 1.4 | 8.8 | 5.9 | 0.8 | 6 |
2002 | Sydney | 46 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 3 | 1.0 | 0.0 | 1.7 | 0.7 | 2.3 | 0.3 | 1.0 | 0 |
Career | 281 | 1360 | 590 | 2367 | 500 | 2867 | 1760 | 142 | 4.8 | 2.1 | 8.4 | 1.8 | 10.2 | 6.3 | 0.7 | 128 |
Would everyone be onboard with this? I know some might look at it as "another thing to add to the list" when it comes to these tables, but it's a necessary and pretty straightforward change, to the point that I'd be surprised if anyone opposed it; nevertheless, keen to know people's thoughts – thanks. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 16:07, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
P.S. Someone needs to really get through to Johnny Stormer, again, about highlighting career-high statistics in bold, basketball-style – it should just be a flat no, as we already highlight key statistics in bold (like above), but they keep ignoring me.
Can some other editors, Admin if possible, have look at the recent history at the above article. An editor wants to add some rather silly Distinguish fields. HiLo48 ( talk) 09:53, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
In addition to my comment above, in my opinion, Rulesfan is being equally disruptive (albeit in a different way) by adding state or country flag icons next to players' names in the Queensland teams' AFL and AFLW current squad templates; they gave differing reasons for their edits when reverting my reverts to the Gold Coast templates: "State of Origin is important when AFLW State of Origin matches are played" (AFLW) and "Oea represented PNG ... where the players are from has a big influence on player retention at the club and in QLD" (AFL). Regardless of their rationale, I think that this is completely unnecessary detail and should be removed immediately; would appreciate other editors' thoughts – thanks. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 14:36, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
MOS:FLAG and MOS:SPORTFLAG give a fairly clear view that flags have a place for sports where national sporting teams are the pinnacle competition. A specific comment in the MOS is "Flags should generally illustrate the highest level the sportsperson is associated with." I would say that for Australian rules football in the 21st century, this is obviously club level, since representative football is long dead, with any occasional games serving more as exhibitions than genuine competition and the International Cup a lower level amateur competition. So I'd agree that the flags should be removed. (I've been using the flags for a long time on Carlton season pages, and by the same logic should remove them - which I'll endeavour to do when I get some spare time). Aspirex ( talk) 21:41, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Hey guys – hope everyone's doing well. I've started the article for the seventh AFL Women's season after the new CBA and start date were announced, but I'm seeing a lot of "season seven" (the recent graphic on the socials even reads "2022 NAB AFLW season 7"), so I've titled it "2022 AFL Women's season B" for now – what do we think? If the AFL sticks with that sort of title when the season rolls around, which could look really messy on Wikipedia, we could use "B" for all related articles/throughout all articles that link to this season and possibly move/change the formatting for all of the articles, templates, etc. for the previous season to include "A", so at least we're using a consistent formatting; things like career spans could then read "2017–2022 (B)" if a player were to retire at the end of this season, for example. Keen to know if anyone has any thoughts or simply think I've jumped the gun/it's a discussion for later in the year – thanks. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 15:16, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Global-Cityzen, could you please discuss here first before moving? While I understand the rationale to put the months in the title, I think having a consistent format of A and B is better than sometimes having the months, sometimes having A and B, sometimes having I and II, etc. The other thing to consider is, while we might have been given the August and November dates, there's always the possibility of a delay to the start and/or end of the season, so simply having A and B and sticking with it (unless the AFL comes up with a better season name or it gets delayed into 2023) would be easier than having to move all of the pages' titles again should the season be delayed and finish in December. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 08:29, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
Tricky one. We're clearly not going to know the final article titles for at least a couple of years. Seems to me that the right approach for now is call them 2022 AFL Women's season and AFL Women's season 7, explain the inconsistent branding in the lead, and wait to see what the future COMMONNAME ends up being. Likewise I suggest our short form (e.g. in stats or lists) be 'Season 7' or 'Season 7 (2022)' for now, and accept that there's likely going to be some future changes.
Circling back to other questions - what do we think about including both AFLW seasons in the same club 2022 season? Important that we get to a consensus on that. Aspirex ( talk) 10:12, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
With a month passing since last conversation on this topic I guess we haven't really finalised a position. Can I suggest we go with page names of 2022 AFL Women's season and AFL Women's season seven for now? AFLW marketing continues to push 'season seven' over anything else, while also using '2022 NAB AFL Women's season seven' as a longform. The (A) and (B) format does not seem to be getting any common use and should probably be dispensed with sooner rather than later. For club season articles, User:SuperJew I see you've now added Season 7 to the 2022 Collingwood Football Club season page (which you perhaps had reservations about in the above discussion) – are you and others comfortable with finalising this as the standard? Aspirex ( talk) 21:31, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
My bad, I didn't look at the edit history closely. I'd perhaps use S7 or S7 (2022) for now. Aspirex ( talk) 21:15, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Not sure if anyone else noticed, but a user nominated the finals template for deletion with a much less clear bracket in its place. Please go to the template deletion discussion and explain to this user why our template is needed. RoryK8 ( talk) 22:16, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Not sure if anyone else noticed, but Australian Football hasn't been updating to include the new AFL Women's season yet – only just read here that they just weren't able to upgrade the site to accommodate two seasons in one calendar year in time for the start of season seven, so hopefully they should be onto it soon. Once this happens, I was intending on using this site rather than womens.afl for match stats in the season seven article (on that, one frustrating thing that I haven't gotten to the bottom of yet is the absence of crowd figures and what we might do there – hopefully Australian Football has the missing ones, though I'm not sure how they would). 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 18:49, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
With all clubs now having AFLW teams, I wonder if it is time to think about a combined infobox for YYYY (club name) season articles. I've put together a dummy template in my sandbox to which skilled editors could upgrade the Template:Infobox AFL club season template. With the current AFLW S7 going ahead, for those 14 clubs with two women's seasons, a secondary infobox could be used if both women's season are being tracked in the one article. I wondered whether or not to include an option for one club VFL/VFLW/SANFL etc seasons in this long infobox, but I think it might be best to keep that information within the section detailing those reserves seasons in articles that have those sections. I've keep the formatting basic to match the current infobox, despite the rugby league fan in me being used to the colours used in WP:RL.
Would like the project's feedback and whether a skilled editor in infobox templates might be able to assist with upgrading the template should the consensus be that some of these changes have utility. Storm machine ( talk) 02:10, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
I'm big on infobox flexibility and just having parameters letting you pair a season name with a season result, both of which you can enter yourself, up to a max of four or five seasons would be my approach. I'd personally only include senior seasons, including historical senior seasons like the afc night series. Reserves information doesn't belong in the infobox. Highest/lowest attendance should be gone as well. Aspirex ( talk) 02:22, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
I saw that Junior Rioli's WP page has been moved to that 'new' page name since the passing of his father and the announcement of his 'new' name, but without any real discussion around it. I am pleasantly surprised that mainstream media outlets have respected the cultural sensitivities and referred to the Eagles forward as Junior without hesitation.
But with Wikipedia being more of a permanent record, does that have a say in what we use as the article title? The fact that Junior will only be using the name for a temporary period of 12 months makes it a little more hard to pin down – it's not as easy as the name remaining in perpetuity and eventually becoming WP:COMMONNAME. I'm just thinking of somewhat similar situations like with the passings of Mandawuy Yunupingu and Geoffrey Gurrumul Yunupingu how they became known in the media by different names but their article titles didn't change.
I appreciate this is not an easy topic. Thoughts? Gibbsy spin 23:51, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
Hello everyone. As many of you may know, I recently replaced AFL tournament brackets with a different one and nominated them for deletion, and I apologize for not approaching you all first. I've reverted the changes, as the clear consensus is to keep due to the lack of paths from rounds. Nonetheless, I still think we can improve and consolidate these, along with other sports brackets, into one. I have taken the feedback given at TfD and altered my proposed replacement of {{ 8TeamBracket-PagePlayoff}} to incorporate diagonal paths, which for your WikiProject's brackets would look like this:
Qualifying and elimination finals | Semi-finals | Preliminary finals | Grand Final | ||||||||||||||||
First qualifying final | |||||||||||||||||||
1 | |||||||||||||||||||
4 | First semi-final | ||||||||||||||||||
First elimination final | First preliminary final | ||||||||||||||||||
5 | |||||||||||||||||||
8 | Grand final | ||||||||||||||||||
Second elimination final | Second preliminary final | ||||||||||||||||||
6 | |||||||||||||||||||
7 | Second semi-final | ||||||||||||||||||
Second qualifying final | |||||||||||||||||||
2 | |||||||||||||||||||
3 | |||||||||||||||||||
If you all agree, this bracket would help to replace the following five brackets being used across Wikipedia:
If there is anything that could be improved upon, please let me know. – Pbrks ( t • c) 00:55, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
RDm
changes the mth round's header. –
Pbrks (
t •
c) 05:10, 7 September 2022 (UTC)|RD4-legs=2
will add a second score box in the Grand Final round. I mentioned it above, but I used
Oracle, a color-blindness simulator, and the red lines are fairly difficult to distinguish from the black for readers with
protanopia. A lighter, but not too much lighter, grey may be appropriate, or, in addition to red lines, have dashed lines or text. –
Pbrks (
t •
c) 06:05, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Okay, I've added red lines to the bracket and separated the columns further. After some thought, I believe the red lines are fine. In my opinion, the red lines are not necessary to communicate the information that the two exiting paths represent that the losing team advances to round 2, while the winning team advances to round 3, so being unable to distinguish between the two colors would be compliance with MOS:COLOR. For those interested, here is an image of what someone with a certain color-blindness may see it as: https://i.imgur.com/bdzNPrO.png. – Pbrks ( t • c) 03:05, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
:red
and :blue
to two separate path, it would make the colored paths red or all blue). The reasoning is for exactly what you mentioned. I'll likely change the module to only support certain colored paths that are WCAG compliant in the future. I added some space from the headers, is that enough? –
Pbrks (
t •
c) 04:09, 9 September 2022 (UTC)|RD1-text1=
has a value. I also made the horizontal spacing conditional on if there exists a crossing path, but that will always happen for the AFL brackets, so its not something you all should notice. Are there any objections for replacing the brackets? –
Pbrks (
t •
c) 20:13, 10 September 2022 (UTC)Glad to hear it, and again, sorry for any trouble. I will go ahead and begin the replacement. Thank you all! @ 4TheWynne: Do you want all of the text to look like that of 2000 AFL season? – Pbrks ( t • c) 03:47, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Qualifying and elimination finals | Semi-finals | Preliminary finals | Grand final | ||||||||||||||||
12 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | |||||||||||||||||||
1 | Essendon | 31.12 (198) | |||||||||||||||||
4 | Kangaroos | 11.7 (73) | 18 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | ||||||||||||||||
Kangaroos | 16.14 (110) | ||||||||||||||||||
11 August, Colonial Stadium | Hawthorn | 15.10 (100) | 26 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | ||||||||||||||||
5 | Geelong | 12.11 (83) | Essendon | 18.17 (125) | |||||||||||||||
8 | Hawthorn | 14.8 (92) | Carlton | 12.8 (80) | 2 September, Melbourne Cricket Ground | ||||||||||||||
Essendon | 19.21 (135) | ||||||||||||||||||
12 August, The Gabba | 25 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | Melbourne | 11.9 (75) | ||||||||||||||||
6 | Brisbane Lions | 15.20 (110) | Melbourne | 23.18 (156) | |||||||||||||||
7 | Western Bulldogs | 10.16 (76) | 19 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | Kangaroos | 17.4 (106) | ||||||||||||||
Carlton | 23.13 (151) | ||||||||||||||||||
13 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | Brisbane Lions | 10.9 (69) | |||||||||||||||||
2 | Carlton | 12.15 (87) | |||||||||||||||||
3 | Melbourne | 15.6 (96) | |||||||||||||||||
There is an AFD relevant to the project regarding Amelia van Oosterwijck taking place at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amelia van Oosterwijck. -- SuperJew ( talk) 11:34, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
First quarter this year, WP:NSPORTS2022 for the full (and very very long) discussion. Aspirex ( talk) 08:59, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
I'd say it's a certainty. 50% of all players played less than 20 games, and a good portion of them have articles built solely on database entries, so it wouldn't surprise me if at least 25% of articles ended up gone. On the plus side, SANFL and WAFL players will now have a more even playing field for inclusion, with everyone judged against GNG instead of NAFL. Aspirex ( talk) 22:07, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
Copying over my response from the AFD page for those interested: I really didn't wanna see the loss of a professional player's article just for lack of trying, so I put a couple of hours' worth of work into this today. She was clearly a decorated junior and picked up the sport quite easily, to the point where she won multiple premierships and a league best and fairest award. I sourced the Leader articles through the State Library Victorianewspaper search function, which unfortunately can't be linked directly via WP. Hopefully there's enough info there now to justify keeping the article. As an aside, it seems a real shame she left the sport – she seems too good not to be playing. Gibbsy spin 02:23, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
I've started a conversation on this article's talk page because I think it might fail WP:GNG. Mentioning it here in case other people are able to find independent reliable sources on it (I've failed so far). OliveYouBean ( talk) 04:27, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Wondering if anyone can provide information about the identity of the mysterious "M. M. McC." (a.k.a. "M. McC.") the prolific writer for the Sporting Globe? For instance, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page20616471 and http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article181689929. Lindsay658 ( talk) 01:25, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
So I'm debating how we should name the upcoming AFLW Draft. Usually it's by the year of the season that just ended (for example 2021 AFL Women's draft is between 2021 AFL Women's season and 2022 AFL Women's season), but this upcoming one is at the end of season seven (the 2nd 2022 season). So should it be 2022 AFL Women's draft B or AFL Women's season seven draft or ? We can already create the page and start populating it as clubs have begun delisting. -- SuperJew ( talk) 18:48, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
I'd suggest start with 'season seven draft' for consistency with season naming conditions. Aspirex ( talk) 21:56, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
(As a side note, given the draft articles cover so much more than just the drafts, I've long thought they should all be reframed as 'Player changes during the 2019 AFL preseason' or something to that effect). Aspirex ( talk) 22:16, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
The 2022 NSPORTS RfC added a requirement that all sports articles are required to have a source that contains significant coverage of the topic. To help identify sports articles that lack this I've created Template:No significant coverage (sports); please add it to any such articles that you encounter, and if you are looking for an article to improve the relevant categories may be useful. BilledMammal ( talk) 13:00, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
There is an AFD relevant to the project regarding Hawthorn best and fairest (AFL Women's) taking place at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hawthorn best and fairest (AFL Women's). Storm machine ( talk) 01:46, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Hi all,
In the "Grand final venues" part of Template:AFL Women's venues I added the qualifiers Adelaide Oval (2019, 2021, April 2022) and Springfield Central Stadium (November 2022). Descriptive enough but not particularly elegant. Your thoughts?
Pete AU aka User:Shirt58 ( talk) 🦘 09:14, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
I believe 2022 and S7 (2022) are the short forms we'd chosen to adopt. Aspirex ( talk) 09:34, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paddy McGuinness (footballer). Lindsay658 ( talk) 19:23, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:1902 VFL Grand Final#Requested move 25 December 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. echidnaLives - talk - edits 06:13, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
With the announcement today of the name changes for the NAB League Boys and NAB League Girls competitions, thought it would be best to discuss the changes here before moving the articles to new namespaces.
Which option should we go with:
Or variations of the above (with brackets or without), or including Australian football or something else.
Personally, I'm leaning towards Option A, but happy to defer to any consensus. Storm machine ( talk) 00:57, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
As of right now, I'd say it has to be Option 2, since I can't find any reference out there showing Option 1. Longer term it probably does end up option 1 but we need to wait for the references to drive us there. Aspirex ( talk) 01:43, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
I propose to retain the article sequence for AFL season pages (e.g. 2023 AFL season) which has been in place previously. My opinion is that the three sections which 4TheWynne ( talk · contribs) has elevated towards the top of the article are lower-importance sections which are list-like or statistical in nature, and less important in telling the story of the 2023 season; the article would be better structured stashed these parts away towards the end of the article. 4TheWynne's proposed sequence can be seen here. The sections in question are:
Aspirex ( talk) 04:42, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
Proposed season article sequence (amended)
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---|
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Seeking opinions on a requested page move AFL siren controversy to Sirengate. Aspirex ( talk) 21:55, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
Hey guys – hope everyone's doing well. As some of you guys might have seen, I've made a few tweaks to certain sections at the 2023 AFL season article with the view of making these the norm moving forward; another such change I made yesterday was the formatting of the ladder section. I understand the argument that the ladder is transcluded at the club season articles, but there's an easy workaround for that; to start with, though, compare the two versions, current to round 4:
Current version
Pos | Team | Pld | W | L | D | PF | PA | PP | Pts | Qualification |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | St Kilda | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 364 | 227 | 160.4 | 16 | Finals series |
2 | Carlton | 4 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 329 | 288 | 114.2 | 14 | |
3 | Melbourne | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 457 | 305 | 149.8 | 12 | |
4 | Essendon | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 394 | 312 | 126.3 | 12 | |
5 | Collingwood | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 406 | 332 | 122.3 | 12 | |
6 | Sydney | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 376 | 298 | 126.2 | 8 | |
7 | Adelaide | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 394 | 372 | 105.9 | 8 | |
8 | Brisbane Lions | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 334 | 358 | 93.3 | 8 | |
9 | North Melbourne | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 305 | 341 | 89.4 | 8 | |
10 | Port Adelaide | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 342 | 388 | 88.1 | 8 | |
11 | Western Bulldogs | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 262 | 344 | 76.2 | 8 | |
12 | Richmond | 4 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 299 | 286 | 104.5 | 6 | |
13 | Geelong | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 366 | 333 | 109.9 | 4 | |
14 | Fremantle | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 304 | 318 | 95.6 | 4 | |
15 | Greater Western Sydney | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 326 | 352 | 92.6 | 4 | |
16 | West Coast | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 312 | 402 | 77.6 | 4 | |
17 | Gold Coast | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 274 | 385 | 71.2 | 4 | |
18 | Hawthorn | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 227 | 430 | 52.8 | 4 |
Amended versions
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I explained my reasoning here, but to expand, I wanted to:
When it comes to club season articles – there are only seven at the moment, and I'm not sure of any other articles which transclude the ladder in its current form – all you would need to do is copy a small portion of the ladder across (e.g. two positions either side), put that as the ladder section, and simply update at the end of the round. For example, at Collingwood's 2023 season article, you could have:
# | Team | P | W | L | D | PF | PA | % | Pts |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
3 | Melbourne | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 457 | 305 | 149.8 | 12 |
4 | Essendon | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 394 | 312 | 126.3 | 12 |
5 | Collingwood | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 406 | 332 | 122.3 | 12 |
6 | Sydney | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 376 | 298 | 126.2 | 8 |
7 | Adelaide | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 394 | 372 | 105.9 | 8 |
All it takes is an agreed-upon way to highlight the relevant team and one simple copy-paste edit at the end of the round for each article – is it really that much of an inconvenience, given the articles are updated after each game anyway? I strongly believe that this formatting is an improvement on the current version, so keen to get some thoughts; as alluded to, I'm happy to be the one to update the ladder after every game, both for AFL and AFLW, so no need for anyone to worry about manually updating more of the columns (it's easy to do anyway). And Global-Cityzen, as for "personal fiefdom", I know change can be a wittle scawy sometimes, but at least I'm trying to make improvements instead of just going with the status quo 100% of the time. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 05:38, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
{{:2023 AFL season#Ladder}}
– this would obviously just copy the whole ladder and not enable you to highlight the relevant team or make other changes, but there's one less edit...I don't have an issue with most of the issues brought up here as positive points by 4TheWynne - sortability, the colouring, the terminology, the slight size change. These are mostly minor issues which imo are not worth it as for consistency they should be changed in previous seasons too. Regarding the "update" syntax, I think the "matches played on" is much more accurate, not when the editor happens to get around to editing. The main reason I oppose to this though, is the table formatting is much more annoying for the average editor to use, especially opposed to the module which is a lot more intuitive. Another reason to oppose is the lack of trancluding on other articles which use the ladder - your comment of "only one extra copy-paste edit in a week" is quite lacking - there's no need to bundle editors with extra edits if there is no need for it --> the whole point is that you don't have to copy-paste edit same information. -- SuperJew ( talk) 21:01, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
I object to only one thing - the heading on the last column. It's not Premiership Points, as you claim, but PP. Been a fan for three quarters of a century, and had no idea what PP meant until I read the explanation. "Pts" works for me. Maybe "Points" in a smaller font. HiLo48 ( talk) 21:24, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Not a fan of the change away from using the module that is adapted across multiple sports articles, back to a template table. Seems rather regressive. The transclusion issue is especially worse with this new table. Storm machine ( talk) 01:59, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
| status_<team> = Q
, change the background colour or add '''(Q)'''
– neither is "less work" (or "much neater", for that matter) than the others. In a previous discussion around statistics tables, you said "Wow do I hate copying the stats line from the previous season and then having to manually change the bg colour" – I don't really understand the pushback over only a couple of seconds' work. Regarding the syntax, how is "Updated to match(es) played on 15 April 2023", which can refer to any of the games played on that day without being specific, more accurate than "Updated to Melbourne v Essendon (round 5, 2023)."? At least then you would know exactly which match any given section is updated to. And Storm machine, if this gives us the ability to make minor improvements and add more functionality to the table without it appearing any more or less basic/changing the shape or size, then I don't see this as being regressive at all.
4TheWynne
(talk •
contribs) 04:37, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
| update =
set to "complete" to hide the syntax below).
4TheWynne
(talk •
contribs) 04:07, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Just wanted to draw attention to a comment I made at Talk:Tasmanian AFL bid#Differentiation from AFL team article. The announcement is likely to occur in the next couple of days - thought I'd notify this WikiProject as it will be a lot cleaner if the split is carried out in a planned way. -- Chuq (talk) 14:24, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
I've made a bold change on changing the AFLW NM template to display 'Kangaroos' instead of 'North Melbourne'. It is my understanding that the team is the North Melbourne Tasmanian Kangaroos officially, and that all references which are treating the situation appropriately (e.g. AFL match centre) are calling them 'Kangaroos' only. Many sources do use North Melbourne, but imprecisely - so of course there's a COMMONNAME argument which could be made - but I think this is the right thing to do. I've also created an AFLW Kan template. I suggest we start using the AFLW Kan template, gradually change (or ask a bot to help) with changing all existing AFLW NM templates to AFLW Kan, and that then frees up the use of the AFLW NM template for a potential future state where the North Melbourne-Tasmania partnership ends and AFLW NM and AFLW Tas are distinct. Aspirex ( talk) 00:02, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
Is this Australian football season notable? BeanieFan11 ( talk) 19:44, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
Hi all,
Your thoughts about this?
(Also: Half-time: Queensland 10-6 NSW - go my mighty Maroons!)
Shirt58 ( talk) 🦘 11:13, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
In relation to the Tasmaninan Squad at the 1961 Brisbane Carnival, can anyone assist with the following in relation to three of the footballers that appear in the squad photograph at [2]:
On previous years' pages, the Ladder is easy to access. On 2023, on mobile view, you have to click on Home and Away Season and then scroll through 24 Rounds of results. This is very much not a Good Thing. That the win/loss table is worthy of its own section, and the ladder is not makes me suspect unchecked personal preference. This is a recently introduced problem that needs addressing 80.2.107.84 ( talk) 07:28, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
The Template:Arf is used in several articles but the link to Great Britain goes to a disambiguation page Great Britain national Australian rules football team. I put a note on Template talk:Arf asking for help with disambiguation, but had no response. Do you know how to resolve this?— Rod talk 16:26, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
I've been putting some effort into overhauling Mark of the Year with an eye on getting it back to featured list status. At first I thought its problems were mostly aesthetic, but as it turned out there were many factual errors as well – notably, completely overlooking the existence of separate Seven and ABC competitions. A trip to the library showed one particular credible-looking physical source did not turn out to support the things the citing editor claimed it supported, causing errors that propagated as far as AFL.com.au's own list of winners. I've reconstructed and referenced the pre-2001 lists almost from the ground up, but there's still lots of missing information and problems, so please take a look if you get a chance. – Tera tix ₵ 00:47, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
I've suggested a requested move here which should be of interest to those on this page. After six years of dithering since my initial suggestion to limit the page to simply VFL/AFL, I think it's time we go through with it. I welcome your discussion on the talk page! Cheers, Gibbsy spin 14:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
Some chat over here on Paxy’s page re: her recent name change. I appreciate the page move was made in good faith but as I said on the talk page, this seems like a more complicated move (we have never had a mononym in the AFL/W) and I also think there is arguments over WP:COMMONNAME given she is a five-time All-Australian, top 5 in the league for games played etc.
Would be grateful to hear some outside voices.
Gibbsy
spin 23:57, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
I feel like this is an absolute no-brainer, but thought I'd put it out there anyway. I feel that, especially in recent years as more sign/trade mechanisms have been introduced, the actual drafts get pushed further down the page and buried beneath content which could be split to its own article – compiling an entire sign/trade/player movement period which is followed by the draft in a single article titled "draft" doesn't seem right to me; for example, if someone clicks on a link to a draft article in a player infobox, instead of finding the national draft towards the top of the article like you'd probably expect, they would have to go more than halfway down the page to find it. I reckon draft articles can just be for the national, rookie and pre-season drafts, and anything else (including retirements/delistings, etc.) can come under "sign and trade period" or just "trade period" – thoughts? 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 13:47, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Hey team, you may recall the discussion we had almost exactly a year ago on how to name the season and related articles for the seventh season AFL Women's. We eventually landed on AFL Women's season seven and an abbreviation of S7 (2022), with a view to reassessing that decision when more 'outside sources' had made their own view. The 2023 NAB AFLW Season Guide was released two days ago ahead of the upcoming 2023 AFLW season, and for the first time we have both 2022 seasons listed next to each other in an official record-keeping sense. This publication is, of course, the quasi-equivalent to the AFL men's competition 'bible', the 1200-plus-page AFL Record Season Guide 2023. So, in my opinion, it holds a decent amount of weight on what nomenclature is chosen here. The AFL has landed on 2022 (Season 7) and an abbreviation of 2022 (S7). For context, the previous season is described as 2022 (Season 6) with an abbreviation of 2022 (S6), and prior to that, standard season names – 2020, 2019, etc. – are used. You can see this for yourself on pages 55 and 56 here. I think this opens up the discussion again for naming conventions on WP. I am ambivalent on the season article name for now, but am pretty strongly in favour of the 2022 (S7) abbreviation, as I think it works better for continuity purposes, especially in infoboxes. Penny for everyone's thoughts, please! Gibbsy spin 10:33, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
I see
4TheWynne has started making changes (like at
Ruby Schleicher. In some places (statsend in infobox and update date of Statistics section) they're using season 7
, I thought as per above that we're using 2022 AFL Women's season (season 7) for the full form, or if like in Schleicher's case it's obvious that it's AFLW we can use 2022 season (season 7). But I def think it's wrong to have only the season+number and not include the year, especially in a field which is an update date. --
SuperJew (
talk)
Despite the AFL men's team reverting to North Melbourne ahead of the 2008 season, when North's women's team entered the competition in 2019, they did so under the name Kangaroos (similar to the men's team from 1999–2007). This is because the women's team, which splits its base between Arden Street and Bellerive, is officially the North Melbourne Tasmanian Kangaroos. This full name is used in every media release for the club and has been since its inception. The official 'short name' for the club is Kangaroos, which is seen on league fixtures, ladders, etc. I propose that all instances of 'North Melbourne' on AFLW infoboxes, statistical tables etc. for season 2019 ongoing be changed to 'Kangaroos'. Obviously this is quite a significant task, but better we do it now than wait until even more time passes. EDIT: This actually should be pretty simple if we just update Template:AFLW NM. Gibbsy spin 05:39, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
The 2023 AFL Grand Final article is having multiple vandalism edits because of the ongoing controversies. It would be ideal to have this one semi-protected. FastCube ( talk) 08:36, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
I came across this article while patrolling recent changes. There seem to be several editors changing the current club from Melbourne to Adelaide and others changing it back, so I'd appreciate some feedback from more knowledgeable editors. From what I can tell based on news articles I've found, there is some speculation about a potential trade, but nothing's been confirmed yet. Anon126 ( notify me of responses! / talk / contribs) 13:19, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
Firstly: an admission. I don't think WP:NSPORTS2022 is all that bad a thing. Removing the 'one VFL/AFL game = notable' requirement gives, in my eyes, greater weight to the achievements of players in state leagues over the journey. While the VFL/AFL obviously has the biggest and most accurate statistical database, lending to ease of use in creating WP articles, there is plenty of information out there to be uncovered re: VFA/SANFL/WAFL players if one knows where to look. To me, the lack of coverage of non-VFL/AFL players is a massive blindspot for our project, and I hope the new ruling goes a way towards correcting that by encouraging the (well-sourced) creation of state league player biographies. There should be no reason why, as an example, any of the players to have won a J. J. Liston Trophy would fail WP:GNG – especially someone like Tom Gribble, who was last night awarded VFL life membership off the back of two Liston Trophies and more than 100 games at Werribee over 10 years. It is their mere failure(?) to make the top grade that has so far excluded them from a Wikipedia article, even though in theory are much more notable than 'Joe Bloggs' who played three games for Fitzroy in the 1940s and then gave up the game to become a tiler (as an example!) The sheer discrepancies between association footballers on WP, who have every club appearance known to man on their page/infobox, versus Australian footballers, who are generally limited to the VFL/AFL, is quite ridiculous. My reason for this preamble is to discuss player infoboxes and the value of having state league information in that infobox alongside VFL/AFL information. Obviously there will forever be conjecture about when the VFL/AFL truly took the title of 'national league', and you can read plenty of digressions on 'first-class' statistics to dive into the weeds there. But there is no reason to suggest that state league information cannot live in a player infobox, either alongside VFL/AFL information, or on its own (if the player did not play VFL/AFL).
I was actually inspired by when I was updating the AFLW coaches articles last week and became quizzical about the playing career of former Freo coach Trent Cooper – the fact that he was relatively young but did not have any playing information in his infobox intrigued me. After doing some googling and finding his WAFL FootyFacts profile, I found that Cooper played 16 WAFL games over three seasons in the late '90s. This is not insignificant information, and certainly adds to the value of the infobox – which, like all infoboxes, is there to provide a snapshot of the article. Another infobox, this time for Geelong Hall of Famer and Team of the Century representative Alec Eason, omits his three fruitful seasons with Footscray in the VFA from 1922–1924, despite the fact he was reportedly the highest paid player in the sport at that time. This information is sourced in the article, but missing from the infobox. David Mirra played 155 games for Box Hill over the course of a decade, captaining 78 of those – a club record – yet only his 11 AFL games for Hawthorn rate worthy for inclusion in his infobox. As is the case in many of these instances, however, his state league achievements are well documented in the wildly inconsistent free-text area that is 'career highlights'. Brad Gotch is a player whose state league exploits are only partially included – his single (half)season for Port Adelaide in 1985 is there, but his three seasons with Dandenong from 1991 to 1993 are not. His infobox also falls foul to the inclusion of league abbreviations in the timeline, which are essentially useless as there is no need for disambiguation given clubs do not share names (above a country-league level, anyway). Geoff Austen, like Mirra, is another whose infobox contains timeline information only about his stint in the top league, yet whose highlights section is filled with information on his VFA achievements (in a messy manner, mind you, which I chose to illustrate the point about a permanent style being required).
Each of these infoboxes have been chosen to display the vast differences and inconsistencies that currently take place between players across the sport. Unlike some of the bigger sports on WP, there is (despite the best intentions of many) a lack of uniformity that goes a way to hindering WP's potential as an authority figure on Australian football.
Trent Cooper | |||
---|---|---|---|
![]() Cooper coaching Fremantle in January 2019 | |||
Personal information | |||
Full name | Trent Aaron Cooper | ||
Date of birth | 19 June 1974 | ||
Place of birth | Midland, Western Australia | ||
Playing career | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
1997–1998 | Peel Thunder | 14 (7) | |
1999 | Swan Districts | 2 (0) | |
Total | 16 (7) | ||
Coaching career3 | |||
Years | Club | Games (W–L–D) | |
2019–2022 (S7) | Fremantle ( W) | 47 (30–16–1) | |
3 Coaching statistics correct as of 2022 (S7). | |||
Source: WAFL FootyFacts |
Alec Eason | |||
---|---|---|---|
![]() Cigarette card of Eason in 1912 | |||
Personal information | |||
Full name | Alexander Eason | ||
Date of birth | 8 November 1889 | ||
Place of birth | Geelong, Victoria | ||
Date of death | 5 May 1956 | (aged 66)||
Place of death | Geelong, Victoria | ||
Original team(s) | Barwon | ||
Debut | Round 12, 1909, Geelong vs. Essendon, at Corio Oval | ||
Height | 175 cm (5 ft 9 in) | ||
Weight | 78 kg (172 lb) | ||
Playing career1 | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
1909–1915 | Geelong | 112 (57) | |
1916 | Richmond | 12 (8) | |
1919–1921 | Geelong | 38 (23) | |
Total | 162 (88) | ||
Coaching career | |||
Years | Club | Games (W–L–D) | |
1920 | Geelong | 16 | (5–11–0)|
1929 | Footscray | 18 | (6–11–1)|
Total | 34 (11–22–1) | ||
1 Playing statistics correct to the end of 1921. | |||
Career highlights | |||
David Mirra | |||
---|---|---|---|
![]() Mirra playing for Hawthorn in April 2019 | |||
Personal information | |||
Date of birth | 20 March 1991 | ||
Original team(s) | Box Hill ( VFL) | ||
Draft | No. 23, 2018 rookie draft | ||
Debut | Round 4, 2018, Hawthorn vs. Melbourne, at Melbourne Cricket Ground | ||
Height | 186 cm (6 ft 1 in) | ||
Weight | 89 kg (196 lb) | ||
Position(s) | Defender | ||
Club information | |||
Current club | Hawthorn | ||
Number | 32 | ||
Playing career1 | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
2018–2019 | Hawthorn | 11 (0) | |
1 Playing statistics correct to the end of 2019. | |||
Career highlights | |||
|
Brad Gotch | |||
---|---|---|---|
Personal information | |||
Full name | Bradley Gotch | ||
Date of birth | 23 June 1962 | ||
Original team(s) | East Doncaster | ||
Height | 166 cm (5 ft 5 in) | ||
Weight | 64 kg (141 lb) | ||
Playing career1 | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
1982–1985 | Fitzroy ( VFL/AFL) | 43 (60) | |
1985 | Port Adelaide ( SANFL) | 11 (25) | |
1986–1990 | St Kilda ( VFL/AFL) | 53 (62) | |
Coaching career | |||
Years | Club | Games (W–L–D) | |
1996–1997 | Springvale | 42 (30–12–0) | |
2002–2009 | Williamstown | 161 (93–66–2) | |
2010–2011 | Casey | 40 (25–15–0) | |
2014–2016 | South Adelaide | 59 (36–22–1) | |
2021– | West Adelaide | 16 (2-16-0) | |
1 Playing statistics correct to the end of 2016. |
Geoff Austen | |||
---|---|---|---|
Personal information | |||
Full name | Geoffrey Austen | ||
Nickname(s) | Texas | ||
Date of birth | 13 October 1953 | ||
Place of birth | Ivanhoe, Victoria | ||
Original team(s) | McLeod-Rosanna | ||
Height | 196 cm (6 ft 5 in) | ||
Weight | 105 kg (231 lb) | ||
Position(s) | Ruckman | ||
Playing career1 | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
1972–78 | Fitzroy | 85 (35) | |
1979, 1981 | Collingwood | 13 (3) | |
Total | 98 (38) | ||
1 Playing statistics correct to the end of 1981. | |||
Career highlights | |||
Kicking 4 goals in the night premiership for Collingwood under coach Tom Hafey, 1979. Liston Trophy 1982. Playing for Preston. Won the inaugural Norm Goss for Best on Ground in the 1983 Premiership match for Preston. Runner up to Billy Swan (Father of Dane Swan) in Liston Trophy 1983. Winning Best and Fairest two years in a row for Preston 1982, 1983. |
Joel Selwood | |||
---|---|---|---|
![]() Selwood in 2019 | |||
Personal information | |||
Full name | Joel Anthony Selwood | ||
Date of birth | 26 May 1988 | ||
Place of birth | Bendigo, Victoria, Australia | ||
Original team(s) |
Sandhurst (
BFL) Bendigo Pioneers ( TAC Cup) | ||
Draft | No. 7, 2006 national draft | ||
Height | 184 cm (6 ft 0 in) | ||
Weight | 84 kg (185 lb) | ||
Position(s) | Midfielder | ||
Playing career1 | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
2007–2022 | Geelong | 355 (175) | |
Representative team honours | |||
Years | Team | Games (Goals) | |
2008 | Victoria | 1 (0) | |
International team honours | |||
2014, 2017 | Australia | 3 (0) | |
1 Playing statistics correct to the end of the 2022 season. 2 State and international statistics correct as of 2017. | |||
Career highlights | |||
|
Joel Selwood's infobox (see right) is held up as the supposed gold standard, but even that contains some odd stylistic inconsistencies as far as I can see – as a start, using both a colon and parentheses for the years of achievement in the career highlights section (it should be one or the other); using individual years rather than a date span for international representation (see soccer player infoboxes for best use); shuffling the order of team and individual achievements; omitting the years/team/games headers from the international representation section (although this is actually a template issue); and using abbreviations such as '(c)' in the All-Australian listings which are wikilinked to pages that don't explain what the '(c)' means.
It would be remiss of me to write all this up without providing some suggestions and/or jump-off points, so looking at some of the parameters where I think there are points up for discussion:
surname in year
, as opposed to the current documentation that suggests Matthew Pavlich kicking for goal in 2006
.full-forward
, not Full Forward
).YYYY–YYYY
, rather than YYYY–YY
as many seem to be. If a player plays for a club in a notable league, departs for another club in a notable league, and then returns to that first club, the two stints at said club should be listed as two separate 'years' spans. I would also argue that if a player departs for a club in a non-notable league (e.g. Colin Watson) and then returns to the first club, that the stints should also be separated. While this would give Watson three non-consecutive 'stints' at St Kilda in his infobox, I think it makes for a more accurate representation of his career transfers, rather than the reader assuming he was either injured or playing reserves in those fallow years.??
or (?)
like I see on some infoboxes. It is messy and not authoritative. There is an argument to include
?
, but I think it's probably best to just leave the space blank.statsend
parameters for national
and umpire
, and rep
should be renamed to soo
if not too technically difficult. The date style should also be formalised to avoid confusion; I see probably five different styles on a regular basis. My suggestions: for post-season stats updates – correct to the end of the YYYY season.
; for mid-season stats updates – correct to the end of round X, YYYY.
. Currently the template differs in the way it auto-formats these statsend
parameters – if you just enter a YYYY
year, it will say correct to the end of the YYYY season
for statsend
, but correct as of YYYY
for repstatsend
and coachstatsend
. This should be made consistent and, again, formalised.Tx achievement (YYYY, YYYY, YYYY)
. It's getting too late in the evening for me to decide what achievement should and shouldn't be included, and in what order they should be listed, but we can get to that as a group.I know it's a long post, and I appreciate if there's a lot of detail, but I am almost certain that most of the people on here have at least a base level of pedantry and/or thirst for accuracy and consistency that can see us get some good outcomes here. I'd love to know what the WP:AFL member base thinks of the above suggestions, and where we can go next in terms of improving not only our infoboxes, but also the amount of notable state league footballers on WP. Gibbsy spin 13:34, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Good discussion to have. Some thoughts from me, feel free to take them or leave them as it's been a while now since I've been active:
Jenks24 ( talk) 07:30, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
Clubs: Having thought more about it, I remain of the view that we need to apply a case-by-case approach to which clubs appear in the club list. In my mind, the leagues are split into tiers: if a player's career at a lower tier is not generally considered of at least comparable importance to his career at a higher tier, then the lower tier leagues would be excluded from the table.
My view of the tiers is: Since the mid-1990s: 1. AFL; 2. VFL/WAFL/SANFL; 3. the rest From the WWII until 1990s: 1. AFL(VFL)/WAFL/SANFL. 2. VFA/TANFL/NTFA/NWFU. 3. The rest From WWI until WWII: 1. AFL(VFL)/WAFL/SANFL. 2. VFA/TANFL/NTFA. 3. The rest Until WWI: 1. AFL(VFL)/VFA/WAFL/SANFL/TFL/Goldfields/Barrier Ranges
I always like to use Barry Round and Peter McKenna as examples for how it works. Round's time at Williamstown, while not as notable as his time at South Melbourne and Footscray, is still looked back upon as a notable time in his career. But McKenna's one-year stints at Devonport, Geelong West, Port Melbourne and Northcote are all very much of lesser note than his time at Collingwood (and Carlton).
Original team/recruited from: Thinking through it, I do think 'recruited from' is the more suited piece of information for the infobox. In the zoning era, this would usually be the local club from which the player was first zoned to a state league team. In the draft era, it would usually be the state league under-18 club for which he played. For me, the most important thing is that we should never have a WAFL/SANFL club as 'original team' prior to the 90s. I think it's important that if a player had a notable senior WAFL/SANFL career prior to playing in the VFL (notable enough to go in the list of clubs) then his 'original team' should be a local club which preceded that. Good example: Andrew McKay. Bad example: this revision of Tony Antrobus. If we get nothing else from this discussion, let it be that. Aspirex ( talk) 21:16, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
OK, to start off with I'll list some small things which should be uncontroversial:
Agreements with others on small changes
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Now onto major or new suggestions:
Hey again – thanks for the patience. Here's the order that I've been using for career highlights (for AFL and their AFLW equivalent where applicable):
Career highlights order
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Feel free to discuss any potential tweaks, additions/removals, etc., but I feel like this will be pretty close to the mark. I've intentionally left out fan-voted awards like the 22under22 team and media awards so that we're just left with premierships and the main individual awards voted by the league, umpires, players, coaches and clubs (e.g. don't include third place in the club best and fairest even if the club has an official award for it, All-Australian squad, indivdual game/other club records, etc.), which I reckon most/all of us would feel are the most important; consequently, as we aren't going to see many players win all of these, most players' sections won't be too long. Otherwise, I still feel pretty strongly about all years being included in career (e.g. a player could spend three years on a list without getting an AFL game due to injury, etc. before landing at another club – you just going to leave that out?) and state leagues being an option for "recruited from" (e.g. a 22-year-old could be drafted after playing VFL for three years), as I think the team included should be the highest level before making the AFL/AFLW, even for 17-/18-year-old draftees. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 05:01, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
Career highlights order (amended)
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The only three changes made are: relegating Norm Smith and Gary Ayres to be among the major individual game awards (but top ranking among them); and, elimination of 'rising star nomination' (which I see as a much lower bar than, for example, placing in a club best and fairest); and addition of Mark/Goal of the Year, which even if fan voted are still very much distinguishing awards. It would follow that any club/league notable enough to be listed in the 'Clubs' list would have its equivalents included. Aspirex ( talk) 09:03, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
Hi all. Not sure if this has been discussed before, but I am wondering if, for the achievements profile for premiership coaches, it is worth merging "AFL premiership coach" and "All-Australian Coach" into one achievement by deleting the latter. The "All-Australian Coach" award is literally just given to the premiership winning coach, and is the exact same as the "AFL premiership coach" title. I feel as if it is superfluous to put on the achievements list on the page of each premiership coach and clogs up the section. Hroutley ( talk) 09:05, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
I've noticed that we currently have:
This seems like a mess to me. I would propose changing it to:
And then delete the Magpies, all competitions and simply "players" categories. This seems to be how we handle it for most other clubs (e.g. Category:Melbourne Football Club players for all VFL/AFL players and then Category:Melbourne Football Club (VFA) players and Category:Melbourne Football Club (pre-VFA) players for competitions prior to the current league the club is in). But I bring it here for discussion first because I realise Port are a unique situation. Jenks24 ( talk) 06:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
I may have missed an important debate here but I've noticed that some articles of players that have played senior VFL football or otherwise notable have been deleted. For example Clarrie Calwell, who played two senior games for Carlton in 1920, now just redirects to a list of Carlton players article. I noticed a similar situation for a Collingwood player who played one senior game in the early years of last century and Darren Bartsch, notable for being the only player drafted four times but never a game, also lost his article a while back.
Back in the day (probably a decade or so ago now) I recall being part of a discussion that led to an agreement that a player with one VFL game met notability requirements. What's the current thinking? Roisterer ( talk) 09:52, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Are we, as a project, doing Wikipedia a disservice by not already having an article on Harley Reid? I remember eons back there being discussions around articles for players who were either yet to be drafted, or who had been drafted but not yet played a game, and the general consensus was to wait until someone had played a senior AFL game to then create their article – even if that person was a number-one pick.
The interest in draft classes, underage championships and the Talent League has grown exponentially in recent years, probably coinciding with the move to allow future pick trading in each year's national draft. It is fair to say that Reid is the most talked about potential number-one draft pick we have seen, simply going by the online interest in his destination and his performances on the field. This article on AFL.com.au today by Cal Twomey goes a long way to demonstrating his celebrity status. Wearing casual clothes as a spectator on level 2 of the Carlton v Melbourne semi-final this year, he was stopped on six separate occasions by fans wanting a photo!
By any standard, Reid smashes the WP:GNG guidelines. He could break his leg tomorrow, go undrafted, never play a game and would still meet that criteria. It seems reductive to not have an article about him already. It is also fair to argue that by creating the article prior to his drafting, it will in turn increase the quality of the article as a whole as it will not suffer from WP:RECENTISM when he inevitably makes his debut. While I think Reid is the only player listed in Twomey's phantom draft who could feasibly cover WP:GNG, who is to say that can't change in future years, particularly if two players had an equal showing of going as pick number one. Where does everyone sit on this? Penny for your thoughts. Cheers! Gibbsy spin 10:29, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
Does anyone here have a copy of AFL Record Season Guide 2023 and can confirm (an image would be amazing, but I trust most editors here) that John Noble was elevated by Collingwood from rookie status? It seems to be what everyone thinks is true, and also appears here supported by a cite to the AFL Record, but I can't find an actual official/verifiable source for it online, and that is odd to me as I feel it would've made the news. If anyone has seen or can find a source for the information online, that would be great too! Thanks, -- SuperJew ( talk) 18:41, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Tom Hawkins (footballer, born 1988) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 21:58, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
I see that 4TheWynne has been using a new format to display trades, for example on the current AFLW trade period page (for comparison the previous format can be seen on the previous period's page. This format seems quite unclear for trades that involve more than two clubs (which seems to be a big percentage of AFLW trades). For example, the latest trade involving Brisbane, Collingwood, and Gold Coast. From the table I understand Howarth joined Collingwood but was she before that with Brisbane or Gold Coast? Smith joined Gold Coast, but was did she play before that for Collingwood or Brisbane? Who were picks 59 & 68 traded from? It gives an incomplete picture. -- SuperJew ( talk) 07:05, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Looking for a DYK hook for the 2023 AFL Women's Grand Final. Barnstar awarded for suggestions at Template:Did you know nominations/2023 AFL Women's Grand Final. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:44, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
Howdy all. I've just added template data for Template:AFLGame which will theoretically make it a whole lot easier to add, update and edit games using the visual editor. Rather than parameters appearing simply as '1', '2', '3' etc. (thereby needing to know what number represents which parameter if updating a game with missing data), the parameters should all appear properly labelled, with the unnamed params serving as aliases for the named params. I've tested it on existing game templates and it works well, particularly the dropdown list of options (V, H, A, D) for the match result.
The only fields I determined should be mandatory 'home team', 'winner' (result), and 'away team'. Everything else (such as 'date', 'venue', 'crowd'), even the scores) has the potential to be missing data, especially in the case of olden times. This is my first time editing template data, and while I consider myself a fairly experienced Wikipedian having been here 15+ years, I'd still like someone with experience in the field to take a glance over it all — and, if possible, remove the existing parameter descriptions from the transcluded /doc so that only the new parameter descriptions appear on the template page.
In time, I'd like to complete the template data for Template:AFLGameDetailed, Template:AFLGameHeader, Template:AFLGameFooter and Template:AFLGameBye too. It'll make everything a lot cleaner. Cheers! Gibbsy spin 01:37, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Input is requested at Talk:Nick Blakey § Thinking Man's Warwick Capper, regarding whether that is a legitimate nickname. Mitch Ames ( talk) 23:28, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
Australian rules football has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke ( talk) 02:50, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
Visit if interested. – Tera tix ₵ 09:15, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
Noticed some inconsistency in the article naming convention at Brian Wilson (disambiguation), I'm not sure how you guys do the naming but one is labelled footballer and the other is labelled Australian rules footballer. Wheatzilopochtli ( talk) 19:58, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Hey, I've added the full fixture for the 2024 VFL season. If someone has some time to help and add it to the 2024 VFL Women's season that would be great, as I don't have that much free time currently. Also another couple of people to keep an eye on these and update match results and ladder would be great :) -- SuperJew ( talk) 05:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 5 | ← | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 |
I've sone some research into the 1930 Brownlow Medal, and I'm not sure I'm meeting the WP:V hurdle (or breaking the OR rules) for one conclusion. Looking for the team's opinion and any other info that can be added.
I've included all of the above in some way, but been intentionally vague about whether the 'percentage of votes to games played' rule was intended to be the primary criterion for victory or a tie-breaker. At the moment, it's mentioned in the 'tie-breakers' section of the Brownlow Medal article. The main question is does the above represent a sufficiently verifiable body of references to move the 'highest percentage' criterion out of the tie-breakers section and into the primary conditions section?
Annoyingly as an aside, I cannot find any reference to state when 'highest votes' was changed to 'highest percentage vs games', leaving a critical gap in the chronology which makes the above difficult to explain in articles. I highly suspect it was changed only that year in 1930, but definitely can't verify it. My reasoning is that in 1929 per this article it was decided not to award votes during interstate game weekends, presumably to even out the Brownlow disadvantage a player might have by playing in a state game; counting the votes from subsequent years indicates that this policy did not continue – making it highly conceivable that it was dropped in 1930 and replaced with the 'highest percentage vs games' clause which had the same intent. If anyone ever finds something in a reference about when this rule was added, I'd be very interested. Aspirex ( talk) 21:15, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
The user Nhoj1898 is adding icons to the page, and continues doing so with no explanation (against WP:BRD), despite my reverting and explaining that it is against the consensus. Could someone else please weigh in, as I really don't feel like getting into an editwar over it? -- SuperJew ( talk) 10:41, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
WP:MOSICONS discourages icons as decoration, and using an icon to repeat the meaning of its adjacent word does qualify as that. I recall having this discussion as a project a few years back and concluding no club jumper icons, so I support sticking to that approach. Aspirex ( talk) 00:26, 12 July 2022 (UTC)
Any reason why you have changed the title @ Aspirex: to "AFL Women's season seven"? I'm just considering how this will look from an encyclopedic perspective in 20 years time to some neutral reader... 2020 AFLW season, 2021 AFLW season, 2022 AFLW season, AFLW season 7, 2023 AFLW season...seems unnecessarily confusing. Do we now keep the 2022 (B) reference where it is mentioned on other pages and in templates? This is obviously a transition period for the league, from next year onwards the league will revert to playing 1 season per calendar year, so splitting the two distinct 2022 seasons into (A) and (B) seems more logical than adopting the league's own generic long-winded title. Pinging other regular users because I'd like their perspective - @ 4TheWynne:, @ Nhoj1898:, @ SuperJew:, @ Thejoebloggsblog:. Global-Cityzen ( talk) 13:24, 18 July 2022 (UTC)
Bringing up a discussion I had with 4TheWynne ( here) for more widespread discussion:
I noticed for a while that the "coaching changes" on season pages list the changes as happening post-season. For example: 2020 AFL season includes Rhyce Shaw stepping down which happened after the end of the season. My suggestion is to have the coaching changes appear as pre-season (or mid-season of course), as this is the season they will affect. If we look at the previous example, David Noble coming in as Norf's coach affects the 2021 AFL season and has no bearing on 2020. With this change, it would also make sense to move the section to the beginning of the page.
Cheers, -- SuperJew ( talk) 18:51, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
I agree. Certainly I always organize the Carlton season pages that way. It only gets messy with caretakers who come in with few games left - i.e. Noble goes in the 2022 page as replaced by Adams with six games left; and in my view it should be Noble again who is listed as outgoing in 2023's page. (But when Malthouse got the flick from Carlton in early 2015, I probably would have put Barker as outgoing in the 2016 article). Thoughts on how to deal with grey cases like this? Aspirex ( talk) 22:19, 20 July 2022 (UTC)
On the Talk page of the above article, I tried to draw attention to a problem I perceived with a recent addition to the article. Two editors have responded with what I consider to be less than helpful responses. Would love to see the thoughts of others please. HiLo48 ( talk) 10:18, 26 July 2022 (UTC)
Hey guys – hope everyone's doing well. Yes, it's back to that old topic again... some of us love them, some of us love to hate them... statistics tables. But don't worry, this one's a fun one.
The way that AFL/AFLW statistics tables are currently formatted, we have manually-added zebra stripes that bunch up and look all messy when you sort a column, so long story short, I went in search of a solution (after trying JavaScript) and was eventually presented with Template:Alternating rows table. All we would need to do is change the format at the AFL player statistics start templates and remove the manual stripes from all of the existing tables, and voilà, we've made yet another accessibility-related improvement to these tables. Take, for example, Tony Lockett's table, as it's currently formatted:
Season | Team | No. | Games | Totals | Averages (per game) | ||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
G | B | K | H | D | M | T | G | B | K | H | D | M | T | ||||
1983 | St Kilda | 37 | 12 | 19 | 17 | 76 | 26 | 102 | 44 | — | 1.6 | 1.4 | 6.3 | 2.2 | 8.5 | 3.7 | — |
1984 | St Kilda | 14 | 20 | 77 | 44 | 146 | 19 | 165 | 108 | — | 3.9 | 2.2 | 7.3 | 1.0 | 8.3 | 5.4 | — |
1985 | St Kilda | 14 | 21 | 79 | 22 | 146 | 32 | 178 | 112 | — | 3.8 | 1.0 | 7.0 | 1.5 | 8.5 | 5.3 | — |
1986 | St Kilda | 14 | 18 | 60 | 29 | 119 | 36 | 155 | 85 | — | 3.3 | 1.6 | 6.6 | 2.0 | 8.6 | 4.7 | — |
1987 | St Kilda | 14 | 22 | 117 | 52 | 226 | 49 | 275 | 164 | 16 | 5.3 | 2.4 | 10.3 | 2.2 | 12.5 | 7.5 | 0.7 |
1988 | St Kilda | 4 | 8 | 35 | 19 | 65 | 19 | 84 | 44 | 6 | 4.4 | 2.4 | 8.1 | 2.4 | 10.5 | 5.5 | 0.8 |
1989 | St Kilda | 4 | 11 | 78 | 24 | 122 | 18 | 140 | 92 | 5 | 7.1 | 2.2 | 11.1 | 1.6 | 12.7 | 8.4 | 0.5 |
1990 | St Kilda | 4 | 12 | 65 | 34 | 112 | 16 | 128 | 84 | 11 | 5.4 | 2.8 | 9.3 | 1.3 | 10.7 | 7.0 | 0.9 |
1991 | St Kilda | 4 | 17 | 127 | 51 | 190 | 33 | 223 | 140 | 7 | 7.5 | 3.0 | 11.2 | 1.9 | 13.1 | 8.2 | 0.4 |
1992 | St Kilda | 4 | 22 | 132 | 58 | 214 | 30 | 244 | 157 | 12 | 6.0 | 2.6 | 9.7 | 1.4 | 11.1 | 7.1 | 0.5 |
1993 | St Kilda | 4 | 10 | 53 | 12 | 85 | 26 | 111 | 63 | 7 | 5.3 | 1.2 | 8.5 | 2.6 | 11.1 | 6.3 | 0.7 |
1994 | St Kilda | 4 | 10 | 56 | 26 | 100 | 16 | 116 | 76 | 7 | 5.6 | 2.6 | 10.0 | 1.6 | 11.6 | 7.6 | 0.7 |
1995 | Sydney | 4 | 19 | 110 | 44 | 176 | 42 | 218 | 139 | 16 | 5.8 | 2.3 | 9.3 | 2.2 | 11.5 | 7.3 | 0.8 |
1996 | Sydney | 4 | 22 | 121 | 63 | 212 | 45 | 257 | 168 | 21 | 5.5 | 2.9 | 9.6 | 2.0 | 11.7 | 7.6 | 1.0 |
1997 | Sydney | 4 | 12 | 37 | 21 | 65 | 23 | 88 | 50 | 7 | 3.1 | 1.8 | 5.4 | 1.9 | 7.3 | 4.2 | 0.6 |
1998 | Sydney | 4 | 23 | 109 | 36 | 167 | 41 | 208 | 121 | 9 | 4.7 | 1.6 | 7.3 | 1.8 | 9.0 | 5.3 | 0.4 |
1999 | Sydney | 4 | 19 | 82 | 38 | 141 | 27 | 168 | 112 | 15 | 4.3 | 2.0 | 7.4 | 1.4 | 8.8 | 5.9 | 0.8 |
2002 | Sydney | 46 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 3 | 1.0 | 0.0 | 1.7 | 0.7 | 2.3 | 0.3 | 1.0 |
Career | 281 | 1360 | 590 | 2367 | 500 | 2867 | 1760 | 142 | 4.8 | 2.1 | 8.4 | 1.8 | 10.2 | 6.3 | 0.7 |
Here is what the table would look like with the start template reformatted, the manual stripes removed and the other changes applied that we've discussed here but haven't yet applied to this table:
Season | Team | No. | Games | Totals | Averages (per game) | Votes | ||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
G | B | K | H | D | M | T | G | B | K | H | D | M | T | |||||
1983 | St Kilda | 37 | 12 | 19 | 17 | 76 | 26 | 102 | 44 | — | 1.6 | 1.4 | 6.3 | 2.2 | 8.5 | 3.7 | — | 0 |
1984 | St Kilda | 14 | 20 | 77 | 44 | 146 | 19 | 165 | 108 | — | 3.9 | 2.2 | 7.3 | 1.0 | 8.3 | 5.4 | — | 7 |
1985 | St Kilda | 14 | 21 | 79 | 22 | 146 | 32 | 178 | 112 | — | 3.8 | 1.0 | 7.0 | 1.5 | 8.5 | 5.3 | — | 3 |
1986 | St Kilda | 14 | 18 | 60 | 29 | 119 | 36 | 155 | 85 | — | 3.3 | 1.6 | 6.6 | 2.0 | 8.6 | 4.7 | — | 1 |
1987 | St Kilda | 14 | 22 | 117† | 52 | 226 | 49 | 275 | 164 | 16 | 5.3† | 2.4 | 10.3 | 2.2 | 12.5 | 7.5 | 0.7 | 20± |
1988 | St Kilda | 4 | 8 | 35 | 19 | 65 | 19 | 84 | 44 | 6 | 4.4 | 2.4 | 8.1 | 2.4 | 10.5 | 5.5 | 0.8 | 3 |
1989 | St Kilda | 4 | 11 | 78 | 24 | 122 | 18 | 140 | 92 | 5 | 7.1† | 2.2 | 11.1 | 1.6 | 12.7 | 8.4 | 0.5 | 10 |
1990 | St Kilda | 4 | 12 | 65 | 34 | 112 | 16 | 128 | 84 | 11 | 5.4† | 2.8† | 9.3 | 1.3 | 10.7 | 7.0 | 0.9 | 3 |
1991 | St Kilda | 4 | 17 | 127† | 51 | 190 | 33 | 223 | 140 | 7 | 7.5† | 3.0 | 11.2 | 1.9 | 13.1 | 8.2 | 0.4 | 16 |
1992 | St Kilda | 4 | 22 | 132 | 58 | 214 | 30 | 244 | 157 | 12 | 6.0 | 2.6 | 9.7 | 1.4 | 11.1 | 7.1 | 0.5 | 10 |
1993 | St Kilda | 4 | 10 | 53 | 12 | 85 | 26 | 111 | 63 | 7 | 5.3 | 1.2 | 8.5 | 2.6 | 11.1 | 6.3 | 0.7 | 5 |
1994 | St Kilda | 4 | 10 | 56 | 26 | 100 | 16 | 116 | 76 | 7 | 5.6† | 2.6 | 10.0 | 1.6 | 11.6 | 7.6 | 0.7 | 7 |
1995 | Sydney | 4 | 19 | 110 | 44 | 176 | 42 | 218 | 139 | 16 | 5.8† | 2.3 | 9.3 | 2.2 | 11.5 | 7.3 | 0.8 | 7 |
1996 | Sydney | 4 | 22 | 121† | 63† | 212 | 45 | 257 | 168 | 21 | 5.5† | 2.9† | 9.6 | 2.0 | 11.7 | 7.6 | 1.0 | 14 |
1997 | Sydney | 4 | 12 | 37 | 21 | 65 | 23 | 88 | 50 | 7 | 3.1 | 1.8 | 5.4 | 1.9 | 7.3 | 4.2 | 0.6 | 1 |
1998 | Sydney | 4 | 23 | 109† | 36 | 167 | 41 | 208 | 121 | 9 | 4.7† | 1.6 | 7.3 | 1.8 | 9.0 | 5.3 | 0.4 | 15 |
1999 | Sydney | 4 | 19 | 82 | 38 | 141 | 27 | 168 | 112 | 15 | 4.3† | 2.0 | 7.4 | 1.4 | 8.8 | 5.9 | 0.8 | 6 |
2002 | Sydney | 46 | 3 | 3 | 0 | 5 | 2 | 7 | 1 | 3 | 1.0 | 0.0 | 1.7 | 0.7 | 2.3 | 0.3 | 1.0 | 0 |
Career | 281 | 1360 | 590 | 2367 | 500 | 2867 | 1760 | 142 | 4.8 | 2.1 | 8.4 | 1.8 | 10.2 | 6.3 | 0.7 | 128 |
Would everyone be onboard with this? I know some might look at it as "another thing to add to the list" when it comes to these tables, but it's a necessary and pretty straightforward change, to the point that I'd be surprised if anyone opposed it; nevertheless, keen to know people's thoughts – thanks. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 16:07, 16 August 2022 (UTC)
P.S. Someone needs to really get through to Johnny Stormer, again, about highlighting career-high statistics in bold, basketball-style – it should just be a flat no, as we already highlight key statistics in bold (like above), but they keep ignoring me.
Can some other editors, Admin if possible, have look at the recent history at the above article. An editor wants to add some rather silly Distinguish fields. HiLo48 ( talk) 09:53, 23 July 2022 (UTC)
In addition to my comment above, in my opinion, Rulesfan is being equally disruptive (albeit in a different way) by adding state or country flag icons next to players' names in the Queensland teams' AFL and AFLW current squad templates; they gave differing reasons for their edits when reverting my reverts to the Gold Coast templates: "State of Origin is important when AFLW State of Origin matches are played" (AFLW) and "Oea represented PNG ... where the players are from has a big influence on player retention at the club and in QLD" (AFL). Regardless of their rationale, I think that this is completely unnecessary detail and should be removed immediately; would appreciate other editors' thoughts – thanks. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 14:36, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
MOS:FLAG and MOS:SPORTFLAG give a fairly clear view that flags have a place for sports where national sporting teams are the pinnacle competition. A specific comment in the MOS is "Flags should generally illustrate the highest level the sportsperson is associated with." I would say that for Australian rules football in the 21st century, this is obviously club level, since representative football is long dead, with any occasional games serving more as exhibitions than genuine competition and the International Cup a lower level amateur competition. So I'd agree that the flags should be removed. (I've been using the flags for a long time on Carlton season pages, and by the same logic should remove them - which I'll endeavour to do when I get some spare time). Aspirex ( talk) 21:41, 22 August 2022 (UTC)
Hey guys – hope everyone's doing well. I've started the article for the seventh AFL Women's season after the new CBA and start date were announced, but I'm seeing a lot of "season seven" (the recent graphic on the socials even reads "2022 NAB AFLW season 7"), so I've titled it "2022 AFL Women's season B" for now – what do we think? If the AFL sticks with that sort of title when the season rolls around, which could look really messy on Wikipedia, we could use "B" for all related articles/throughout all articles that link to this season and possibly move/change the formatting for all of the articles, templates, etc. for the previous season to include "A", so at least we're using a consistent formatting; things like career spans could then read "2017–2022 (B)" if a player were to retire at the end of this season, for example. Keen to know if anyone has any thoughts or simply think I've jumped the gun/it's a discussion for later in the year – thanks. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 15:16, 19 May 2022 (UTC)
Global-Cityzen, could you please discuss here first before moving? While I understand the rationale to put the months in the title, I think having a consistent format of A and B is better than sometimes having the months, sometimes having A and B, sometimes having I and II, etc. The other thing to consider is, while we might have been given the August and November dates, there's always the possibility of a delay to the start and/or end of the season, so simply having A and B and sticking with it (unless the AFL comes up with a better season name or it gets delayed into 2023) would be easier than having to move all of the pages' titles again should the season be delayed and finish in December. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 08:29, 21 May 2022 (UTC)
Tricky one. We're clearly not going to know the final article titles for at least a couple of years. Seems to me that the right approach for now is call them 2022 AFL Women's season and AFL Women's season 7, explain the inconsistent branding in the lead, and wait to see what the future COMMONNAME ends up being. Likewise I suggest our short form (e.g. in stats or lists) be 'Season 7' or 'Season 7 (2022)' for now, and accept that there's likely going to be some future changes.
Circling back to other questions - what do we think about including both AFLW seasons in the same club 2022 season? Important that we get to a consensus on that. Aspirex ( talk) 10:12, 25 May 2022 (UTC)
With a month passing since last conversation on this topic I guess we haven't really finalised a position. Can I suggest we go with page names of 2022 AFL Women's season and AFL Women's season seven for now? AFLW marketing continues to push 'season seven' over anything else, while also using '2022 NAB AFL Women's season seven' as a longform. The (A) and (B) format does not seem to be getting any common use and should probably be dispensed with sooner rather than later. For club season articles, User:SuperJew I see you've now added Season 7 to the 2022 Collingwood Football Club season page (which you perhaps had reservations about in the above discussion) – are you and others comfortable with finalising this as the standard? Aspirex ( talk) 21:31, 8 July 2022 (UTC)
My bad, I didn't look at the edit history closely. I'd perhaps use S7 or S7 (2022) for now. Aspirex ( talk) 21:15, 9 July 2022 (UTC)
Not sure if anyone else noticed, but a user nominated the finals template for deletion with a much less clear bracket in its place. Please go to the template deletion discussion and explain to this user why our template is needed. RoryK8 ( talk) 22:16, 5 September 2022 (UTC)
Not sure if anyone else noticed, but Australian Football hasn't been updating to include the new AFL Women's season yet – only just read here that they just weren't able to upgrade the site to accommodate two seasons in one calendar year in time for the start of season seven, so hopefully they should be onto it soon. Once this happens, I was intending on using this site rather than womens.afl for match stats in the season seven article (on that, one frustrating thing that I haven't gotten to the bottom of yet is the absence of crowd figures and what we might do there – hopefully Australian Football has the missing ones, though I'm not sure how they would). 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 18:49, 30 August 2022 (UTC)
With all clubs now having AFLW teams, I wonder if it is time to think about a combined infobox for YYYY (club name) season articles. I've put together a dummy template in my sandbox to which skilled editors could upgrade the Template:Infobox AFL club season template. With the current AFLW S7 going ahead, for those 14 clubs with two women's seasons, a secondary infobox could be used if both women's season are being tracked in the one article. I wondered whether or not to include an option for one club VFL/VFLW/SANFL etc seasons in this long infobox, but I think it might be best to keep that information within the section detailing those reserves seasons in articles that have those sections. I've keep the formatting basic to match the current infobox, despite the rugby league fan in me being used to the colours used in WP:RL.
Would like the project's feedback and whether a skilled editor in infobox templates might be able to assist with upgrading the template should the consensus be that some of these changes have utility. Storm machine ( talk) 02:10, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
I'm big on infobox flexibility and just having parameters letting you pair a season name with a season result, both of which you can enter yourself, up to a max of four or five seasons would be my approach. I'd personally only include senior seasons, including historical senior seasons like the afc night series. Reserves information doesn't belong in the infobox. Highest/lowest attendance should be gone as well. Aspirex ( talk) 02:22, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
I saw that Junior Rioli's WP page has been moved to that 'new' page name since the passing of his father and the announcement of his 'new' name, but without any real discussion around it. I am pleasantly surprised that mainstream media outlets have respected the cultural sensitivities and referred to the Eagles forward as Junior without hesitation.
But with Wikipedia being more of a permanent record, does that have a say in what we use as the article title? The fact that Junior will only be using the name for a temporary period of 12 months makes it a little more hard to pin down – it's not as easy as the name remaining in perpetuity and eventually becoming WP:COMMONNAME. I'm just thinking of somewhat similar situations like with the passings of Mandawuy Yunupingu and Geoffrey Gurrumul Yunupingu how they became known in the media by different names but their article titles didn't change.
I appreciate this is not an easy topic. Thoughts? Gibbsy spin 23:51, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
Hello everyone. As many of you may know, I recently replaced AFL tournament brackets with a different one and nominated them for deletion, and I apologize for not approaching you all first. I've reverted the changes, as the clear consensus is to keep due to the lack of paths from rounds. Nonetheless, I still think we can improve and consolidate these, along with other sports brackets, into one. I have taken the feedback given at TfD and altered my proposed replacement of {{ 8TeamBracket-PagePlayoff}} to incorporate diagonal paths, which for your WikiProject's brackets would look like this:
Qualifying and elimination finals | Semi-finals | Preliminary finals | Grand Final | ||||||||||||||||
First qualifying final | |||||||||||||||||||
1 | |||||||||||||||||||
4 | First semi-final | ||||||||||||||||||
First elimination final | First preliminary final | ||||||||||||||||||
5 | |||||||||||||||||||
8 | Grand final | ||||||||||||||||||
Second elimination final | Second preliminary final | ||||||||||||||||||
6 | |||||||||||||||||||
7 | Second semi-final | ||||||||||||||||||
Second qualifying final | |||||||||||||||||||
2 | |||||||||||||||||||
3 | |||||||||||||||||||
If you all agree, this bracket would help to replace the following five brackets being used across Wikipedia:
If there is anything that could be improved upon, please let me know. – Pbrks ( t • c) 00:55, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
RDm
changes the mth round's header. –
Pbrks (
t •
c) 05:10, 7 September 2022 (UTC)|RD4-legs=2
will add a second score box in the Grand Final round. I mentioned it above, but I used
Oracle, a color-blindness simulator, and the red lines are fairly difficult to distinguish from the black for readers with
protanopia. A lighter, but not too much lighter, grey may be appropriate, or, in addition to red lines, have dashed lines or text. –
Pbrks (
t •
c) 06:05, 7 September 2022 (UTC)
Okay, I've added red lines to the bracket and separated the columns further. After some thought, I believe the red lines are fine. In my opinion, the red lines are not necessary to communicate the information that the two exiting paths represent that the losing team advances to round 2, while the winning team advances to round 3, so being unable to distinguish between the two colors would be compliance with MOS:COLOR. For those interested, here is an image of what someone with a certain color-blindness may see it as: https://i.imgur.com/bdzNPrO.png. – Pbrks ( t • c) 03:05, 8 September 2022 (UTC)
:red
and :blue
to two separate path, it would make the colored paths red or all blue). The reasoning is for exactly what you mentioned. I'll likely change the module to only support certain colored paths that are WCAG compliant in the future. I added some space from the headers, is that enough? –
Pbrks (
t •
c) 04:09, 9 September 2022 (UTC)|RD1-text1=
has a value. I also made the horizontal spacing conditional on if there exists a crossing path, but that will always happen for the AFL brackets, so its not something you all should notice. Are there any objections for replacing the brackets? –
Pbrks (
t •
c) 20:13, 10 September 2022 (UTC)Glad to hear it, and again, sorry for any trouble. I will go ahead and begin the replacement. Thank you all! @ 4TheWynne: Do you want all of the text to look like that of 2000 AFL season? – Pbrks ( t • c) 03:47, 14 September 2022 (UTC)
Qualifying and elimination finals | Semi-finals | Preliminary finals | Grand final | ||||||||||||||||
12 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | |||||||||||||||||||
1 | Essendon | 31.12 (198) | |||||||||||||||||
4 | Kangaroos | 11.7 (73) | 18 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | ||||||||||||||||
Kangaroos | 16.14 (110) | ||||||||||||||||||
11 August, Colonial Stadium | Hawthorn | 15.10 (100) | 26 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | ||||||||||||||||
5 | Geelong | 12.11 (83) | Essendon | 18.17 (125) | |||||||||||||||
8 | Hawthorn | 14.8 (92) | Carlton | 12.8 (80) | 2 September, Melbourne Cricket Ground | ||||||||||||||
Essendon | 19.21 (135) | ||||||||||||||||||
12 August, The Gabba | 25 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | Melbourne | 11.9 (75) | ||||||||||||||||
6 | Brisbane Lions | 15.20 (110) | Melbourne | 23.18 (156) | |||||||||||||||
7 | Western Bulldogs | 10.16 (76) | 19 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | Kangaroos | 17.4 (106) | ||||||||||||||
Carlton | 23.13 (151) | ||||||||||||||||||
13 August, Melbourne Cricket Ground | Brisbane Lions | 10.9 (69) | |||||||||||||||||
2 | Carlton | 12.15 (87) | |||||||||||||||||
3 | Melbourne | 15.6 (96) | |||||||||||||||||
There is an AFD relevant to the project regarding Amelia van Oosterwijck taking place at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Amelia van Oosterwijck. -- SuperJew ( talk) 11:34, 12 September 2022 (UTC)
First quarter this year, WP:NSPORTS2022 for the full (and very very long) discussion. Aspirex ( talk) 08:59, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
I'd say it's a certainty. 50% of all players played less than 20 games, and a good portion of them have articles built solely on database entries, so it wouldn't surprise me if at least 25% of articles ended up gone. On the plus side, SANFL and WAFL players will now have a more even playing field for inclusion, with everyone judged against GNG instead of NAFL. Aspirex ( talk) 22:07, 13 September 2022 (UTC)
Copying over my response from the AFD page for those interested: I really didn't wanna see the loss of a professional player's article just for lack of trying, so I put a couple of hours' worth of work into this today. She was clearly a decorated junior and picked up the sport quite easily, to the point where she won multiple premierships and a league best and fairest award. I sourced the Leader articles through the State Library Victorianewspaper search function, which unfortunately can't be linked directly via WP. Hopefully there's enough info there now to justify keeping the article. As an aside, it seems a real shame she left the sport – she seems too good not to be playing. Gibbsy spin 02:23, 17 September 2022 (UTC)
I've started a conversation on this article's talk page because I think it might fail WP:GNG. Mentioning it here in case other people are able to find independent reliable sources on it (I've failed so far). OliveYouBean ( talk) 04:27, 16 October 2022 (UTC)
Wondering if anyone can provide information about the identity of the mysterious "M. M. McC." (a.k.a. "M. McC.") the prolific writer for the Sporting Globe? For instance, http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-page20616471 and http://nla.gov.au/nla.news-article181689929. Lindsay658 ( talk) 01:25, 4 November 2022 (UTC)
So I'm debating how we should name the upcoming AFLW Draft. Usually it's by the year of the season that just ended (for example 2021 AFL Women's draft is between 2021 AFL Women's season and 2022 AFL Women's season), but this upcoming one is at the end of season seven (the 2nd 2022 season). So should it be 2022 AFL Women's draft B or AFL Women's season seven draft or ? We can already create the page and start populating it as clubs have begun delisting. -- SuperJew ( talk) 18:48, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
I'd suggest start with 'season seven draft' for consistency with season naming conditions. Aspirex ( talk) 21:56, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
(As a side note, given the draft articles cover so much more than just the drafts, I've long thought they should all be reframed as 'Player changes during the 2019 AFL preseason' or something to that effect). Aspirex ( talk) 22:16, 7 November 2022 (UTC)
The 2022 NSPORTS RfC added a requirement that all sports articles are required to have a source that contains significant coverage of the topic. To help identify sports articles that lack this I've created Template:No significant coverage (sports); please add it to any such articles that you encounter, and if you are looking for an article to improve the relevant categories may be useful. BilledMammal ( talk) 13:00, 22 November 2022 (UTC)
There is an AFD relevant to the project regarding Hawthorn best and fairest (AFL Women's) taking place at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Hawthorn best and fairest (AFL Women's). Storm machine ( talk) 01:46, 24 November 2022 (UTC)
Hi all,
In the "Grand final venues" part of Template:AFL Women's venues I added the qualifiers Adelaide Oval (2019, 2021, April 2022) and Springfield Central Stadium (November 2022). Descriptive enough but not particularly elegant. Your thoughts?
Pete AU aka User:Shirt58 ( talk) 🦘 09:14, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
I believe 2022 and S7 (2022) are the short forms we'd chosen to adopt. Aspirex ( talk) 09:34, 27 November 2022 (UTC)
Please see Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Paddy McGuinness (footballer). Lindsay658 ( talk) 19:23, 13 December 2022 (UTC)
There is a requested move discussion at Talk:1902 VFL Grand Final#Requested move 25 December 2022 that may be of interest to members of this WikiProject. echidnaLives - talk - edits 06:13, 1 January 2023 (UTC)
With the announcement today of the name changes for the NAB League Boys and NAB League Girls competitions, thought it would be best to discuss the changes here before moving the articles to new namespaces.
Which option should we go with:
Or variations of the above (with brackets or without), or including Australian football or something else.
Personally, I'm leaning towards Option A, but happy to defer to any consensus. Storm machine ( talk) 00:57, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
As of right now, I'd say it has to be Option 2, since I can't find any reference out there showing Option 1. Longer term it probably does end up option 1 but we need to wait for the references to drive us there. Aspirex ( talk) 01:43, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
I propose to retain the article sequence for AFL season pages (e.g. 2023 AFL season) which has been in place previously. My opinion is that the three sections which 4TheWynne ( talk · contribs) has elevated towards the top of the article are lower-importance sections which are list-like or statistical in nature, and less important in telling the story of the 2023 season; the article would be better structured stashed these parts away towards the end of the article. 4TheWynne's proposed sequence can be seen here. The sections in question are:
Aspirex ( talk) 04:42, 11 March 2023 (UTC)
Proposed season article sequence (amended)
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---|
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Seeking opinions on a requested page move AFL siren controversy to Sirengate. Aspirex ( talk) 21:55, 1 April 2023 (UTC)
Hey guys – hope everyone's doing well. As some of you guys might have seen, I've made a few tweaks to certain sections at the 2023 AFL season article with the view of making these the norm moving forward; another such change I made yesterday was the formatting of the ladder section. I understand the argument that the ladder is transcluded at the club season articles, but there's an easy workaround for that; to start with, though, compare the two versions, current to round 4:
Current version
Pos | Team | Pld | W | L | D | PF | PA | PP | Pts | Qualification |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
1 | St Kilda | 4 | 4 | 0 | 0 | 364 | 227 | 160.4 | 16 | Finals series |
2 | Carlton | 4 | 3 | 0 | 1 | 329 | 288 | 114.2 | 14 | |
3 | Melbourne | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 457 | 305 | 149.8 | 12 | |
4 | Essendon | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 394 | 312 | 126.3 | 12 | |
5 | Collingwood | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 406 | 332 | 122.3 | 12 | |
6 | Sydney | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 376 | 298 | 126.2 | 8 | |
7 | Adelaide | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 394 | 372 | 105.9 | 8 | |
8 | Brisbane Lions | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 334 | 358 | 93.3 | 8 | |
9 | North Melbourne | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 305 | 341 | 89.4 | 8 | |
10 | Port Adelaide | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 342 | 388 | 88.1 | 8 | |
11 | Western Bulldogs | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 262 | 344 | 76.2 | 8 | |
12 | Richmond | 4 | 1 | 2 | 1 | 299 | 286 | 104.5 | 6 | |
13 | Geelong | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 366 | 333 | 109.9 | 4 | |
14 | Fremantle | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 304 | 318 | 95.6 | 4 | |
15 | Greater Western Sydney | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 326 | 352 | 92.6 | 4 | |
16 | West Coast | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 312 | 402 | 77.6 | 4 | |
17 | Gold Coast | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 274 | 385 | 71.2 | 4 | |
18 | Hawthorn | 4 | 1 | 3 | 0 | 227 | 430 | 52.8 | 4 |
Amended versions
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I explained my reasoning here, but to expand, I wanted to:
When it comes to club season articles – there are only seven at the moment, and I'm not sure of any other articles which transclude the ladder in its current form – all you would need to do is copy a small portion of the ladder across (e.g. two positions either side), put that as the ladder section, and simply update at the end of the round. For example, at Collingwood's 2023 season article, you could have:
# | Team | P | W | L | D | PF | PA | % | Pts |
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
3 | Melbourne | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 457 | 305 | 149.8 | 12 |
4 | Essendon | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 394 | 312 | 126.3 | 12 |
5 | Collingwood | 4 | 3 | 1 | 0 | 406 | 332 | 122.3 | 12 |
6 | Sydney | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 376 | 298 | 126.2 | 8 |
7 | Adelaide | 4 | 2 | 2 | 0 | 394 | 372 | 105.9 | 8 |
All it takes is an agreed-upon way to highlight the relevant team and one simple copy-paste edit at the end of the round for each article – is it really that much of an inconvenience, given the articles are updated after each game anyway? I strongly believe that this formatting is an improvement on the current version, so keen to get some thoughts; as alluded to, I'm happy to be the one to update the ladder after every game, both for AFL and AFLW, so no need for anyone to worry about manually updating more of the columns (it's easy to do anyway). And Global-Cityzen, as for "personal fiefdom", I know change can be a wittle scawy sometimes, but at least I'm trying to make improvements instead of just going with the status quo 100% of the time. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 05:38, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
{{:2023 AFL season#Ladder}}
– this would obviously just copy the whole ladder and not enable you to highlight the relevant team or make other changes, but there's one less edit...I don't have an issue with most of the issues brought up here as positive points by 4TheWynne - sortability, the colouring, the terminology, the slight size change. These are mostly minor issues which imo are not worth it as for consistency they should be changed in previous seasons too. Regarding the "update" syntax, I think the "matches played on" is much more accurate, not when the editor happens to get around to editing. The main reason I oppose to this though, is the table formatting is much more annoying for the average editor to use, especially opposed to the module which is a lot more intuitive. Another reason to oppose is the lack of trancluding on other articles which use the ladder - your comment of "only one extra copy-paste edit in a week" is quite lacking - there's no need to bundle editors with extra edits if there is no need for it --> the whole point is that you don't have to copy-paste edit same information. -- SuperJew ( talk) 21:01, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
I object to only one thing - the heading on the last column. It's not Premiership Points, as you claim, but PP. Been a fan for three quarters of a century, and had no idea what PP meant until I read the explanation. "Pts" works for me. Maybe "Points" in a smaller font. HiLo48 ( talk) 21:24, 12 April 2023 (UTC)
Not a fan of the change away from using the module that is adapted across multiple sports articles, back to a template table. Seems rather regressive. The transclusion issue is especially worse with this new table. Storm machine ( talk) 01:59, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
| status_<team> = Q
, change the background colour or add '''(Q)'''
– neither is "less work" (or "much neater", for that matter) than the others. In a previous discussion around statistics tables, you said "Wow do I hate copying the stats line from the previous season and then having to manually change the bg colour" – I don't really understand the pushback over only a couple of seconds' work. Regarding the syntax, how is "Updated to match(es) played on 15 April 2023", which can refer to any of the games played on that day without being specific, more accurate than "Updated to Melbourne v Essendon (round 5, 2023)."? At least then you would know exactly which match any given section is updated to. And Storm machine, if this gives us the ability to make minor improvements and add more functionality to the table without it appearing any more or less basic/changing the shape or size, then I don't see this as being regressive at all.
4TheWynne
(talk •
contribs) 04:37, 13 April 2023 (UTC)
| update =
set to "complete" to hide the syntax below).
4TheWynne
(talk •
contribs) 04:07, 14 April 2023 (UTC)
Just wanted to draw attention to a comment I made at Talk:Tasmanian AFL bid#Differentiation from AFL team article. The announcement is likely to occur in the next couple of days - thought I'd notify this WikiProject as it will be a lot cleaner if the split is carried out in a planned way. -- Chuq (talk) 14:24, 1 May 2023 (UTC)
I've made a bold change on changing the AFLW NM template to display 'Kangaroos' instead of 'North Melbourne'. It is my understanding that the team is the North Melbourne Tasmanian Kangaroos officially, and that all references which are treating the situation appropriately (e.g. AFL match centre) are calling them 'Kangaroos' only. Many sources do use North Melbourne, but imprecisely - so of course there's a COMMONNAME argument which could be made - but I think this is the right thing to do. I've also created an AFLW Kan template. I suggest we start using the AFLW Kan template, gradually change (or ask a bot to help) with changing all existing AFLW NM templates to AFLW Kan, and that then frees up the use of the AFLW NM template for a potential future state where the North Melbourne-Tasmania partnership ends and AFLW NM and AFLW Tas are distinct. Aspirex ( talk) 00:02, 6 May 2023 (UTC)
Is this Australian football season notable? BeanieFan11 ( talk) 19:44, 7 May 2023 (UTC)
Hi all,
Your thoughts about this?
(Also: Half-time: Queensland 10-6 NSW - go my mighty Maroons!)
Shirt58 ( talk) 🦘 11:13, 31 May 2023 (UTC)
In relation to the Tasmaninan Squad at the 1961 Brisbane Carnival, can anyone assist with the following in relation to three of the footballers that appear in the squad photograph at [2]:
On previous years' pages, the Ladder is easy to access. On 2023, on mobile view, you have to click on Home and Away Season and then scroll through 24 Rounds of results. This is very much not a Good Thing. That the win/loss table is worthy of its own section, and the ladder is not makes me suspect unchecked personal preference. This is a recently introduced problem that needs addressing 80.2.107.84 ( talk) 07:28, 4 July 2023 (UTC)
The Template:Arf is used in several articles but the link to Great Britain goes to a disambiguation page Great Britain national Australian rules football team. I put a note on Template talk:Arf asking for help with disambiguation, but had no response. Do you know how to resolve this?— Rod talk 16:26, 5 July 2023 (UTC)
I've been putting some effort into overhauling Mark of the Year with an eye on getting it back to featured list status. At first I thought its problems were mostly aesthetic, but as it turned out there were many factual errors as well – notably, completely overlooking the existence of separate Seven and ABC competitions. A trip to the library showed one particular credible-looking physical source did not turn out to support the things the citing editor claimed it supported, causing errors that propagated as far as AFL.com.au's own list of winners. I've reconstructed and referenced the pre-2001 lists almost from the ground up, but there's still lots of missing information and problems, so please take a look if you get a chance. – Tera tix ₵ 00:47, 20 July 2023 (UTC)
I've suggested a requested move here which should be of interest to those on this page. After six years of dithering since my initial suggestion to limit the page to simply VFL/AFL, I think it's time we go through with it. I welcome your discussion on the talk page! Cheers, Gibbsy spin 14:06, 9 August 2023 (UTC)
Some chat over here on Paxy’s page re: her recent name change. I appreciate the page move was made in good faith but as I said on the talk page, this seems like a more complicated move (we have never had a mononym in the AFL/W) and I also think there is arguments over WP:COMMONNAME given she is a five-time All-Australian, top 5 in the league for games played etc.
Would be grateful to hear some outside voices.
Gibbsy
spin 23:57, 1 September 2023 (UTC)
I feel like this is an absolute no-brainer, but thought I'd put it out there anyway. I feel that, especially in recent years as more sign/trade mechanisms have been introduced, the actual drafts get pushed further down the page and buried beneath content which could be split to its own article – compiling an entire sign/trade/player movement period which is followed by the draft in a single article titled "draft" doesn't seem right to me; for example, if someone clicks on a link to a draft article in a player infobox, instead of finding the national draft towards the top of the article like you'd probably expect, they would have to go more than halfway down the page to find it. I reckon draft articles can just be for the national, rookie and pre-season drafts, and anything else (including retirements/delistings, etc.) can come under "sign and trade period" or just "trade period" – thoughts? 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 13:47, 12 September 2023 (UTC)
Hey team, you may recall the discussion we had almost exactly a year ago on how to name the season and related articles for the seventh season AFL Women's. We eventually landed on AFL Women's season seven and an abbreviation of S7 (2022), with a view to reassessing that decision when more 'outside sources' had made their own view. The 2023 NAB AFLW Season Guide was released two days ago ahead of the upcoming 2023 AFLW season, and for the first time we have both 2022 seasons listed next to each other in an official record-keeping sense. This publication is, of course, the quasi-equivalent to the AFL men's competition 'bible', the 1200-plus-page AFL Record Season Guide 2023. So, in my opinion, it holds a decent amount of weight on what nomenclature is chosen here. The AFL has landed on 2022 (Season 7) and an abbreviation of 2022 (S7). For context, the previous season is described as 2022 (Season 6) with an abbreviation of 2022 (S6), and prior to that, standard season names – 2020, 2019, etc. – are used. You can see this for yourself on pages 55 and 56 here. I think this opens up the discussion again for naming conventions on WP. I am ambivalent on the season article name for now, but am pretty strongly in favour of the 2022 (S7) abbreviation, as I think it works better for continuity purposes, especially in infoboxes. Penny for everyone's thoughts, please! Gibbsy spin 10:33, 31 August 2023 (UTC)
I see
4TheWynne has started making changes (like at
Ruby Schleicher. In some places (statsend in infobox and update date of Statistics section) they're using season 7
, I thought as per above that we're using 2022 AFL Women's season (season 7) for the full form, or if like in Schleicher's case it's obvious that it's AFLW we can use 2022 season (season 7). But I def think it's wrong to have only the season+number and not include the year, especially in a field which is an update date. --
SuperJew (
talk)
Despite the AFL men's team reverting to North Melbourne ahead of the 2008 season, when North's women's team entered the competition in 2019, they did so under the name Kangaroos (similar to the men's team from 1999–2007). This is because the women's team, which splits its base between Arden Street and Bellerive, is officially the North Melbourne Tasmanian Kangaroos. This full name is used in every media release for the club and has been since its inception. The official 'short name' for the club is Kangaroos, which is seen on league fixtures, ladders, etc. I propose that all instances of 'North Melbourne' on AFLW infoboxes, statistical tables etc. for season 2019 ongoing be changed to 'Kangaroos'. Obviously this is quite a significant task, but better we do it now than wait until even more time passes. EDIT: This actually should be pretty simple if we just update Template:AFLW NM. Gibbsy spin 05:39, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
The 2023 AFL Grand Final article is having multiple vandalism edits because of the ongoing controversies. It would be ideal to have this one semi-protected. FastCube ( talk) 08:36, 30 September 2023 (UTC)
I came across this article while patrolling recent changes. There seem to be several editors changing the current club from Melbourne to Adelaide and others changing it back, so I'd appreciate some feedback from more knowledgeable editors. From what I can tell based on news articles I've found, there is some speculation about a potential trade, but nothing's been confirmed yet. Anon126 ( notify me of responses! / talk / contribs) 13:19, 5 October 2023 (UTC)
Firstly: an admission. I don't think WP:NSPORTS2022 is all that bad a thing. Removing the 'one VFL/AFL game = notable' requirement gives, in my eyes, greater weight to the achievements of players in state leagues over the journey. While the VFL/AFL obviously has the biggest and most accurate statistical database, lending to ease of use in creating WP articles, there is plenty of information out there to be uncovered re: VFA/SANFL/WAFL players if one knows where to look. To me, the lack of coverage of non-VFL/AFL players is a massive blindspot for our project, and I hope the new ruling goes a way towards correcting that by encouraging the (well-sourced) creation of state league player biographies. There should be no reason why, as an example, any of the players to have won a J. J. Liston Trophy would fail WP:GNG – especially someone like Tom Gribble, who was last night awarded VFL life membership off the back of two Liston Trophies and more than 100 games at Werribee over 10 years. It is their mere failure(?) to make the top grade that has so far excluded them from a Wikipedia article, even though in theory are much more notable than 'Joe Bloggs' who played three games for Fitzroy in the 1940s and then gave up the game to become a tiler (as an example!) The sheer discrepancies between association footballers on WP, who have every club appearance known to man on their page/infobox, versus Australian footballers, who are generally limited to the VFL/AFL, is quite ridiculous. My reason for this preamble is to discuss player infoboxes and the value of having state league information in that infobox alongside VFL/AFL information. Obviously there will forever be conjecture about when the VFL/AFL truly took the title of 'national league', and you can read plenty of digressions on 'first-class' statistics to dive into the weeds there. But there is no reason to suggest that state league information cannot live in a player infobox, either alongside VFL/AFL information, or on its own (if the player did not play VFL/AFL).
I was actually inspired by when I was updating the AFLW coaches articles last week and became quizzical about the playing career of former Freo coach Trent Cooper – the fact that he was relatively young but did not have any playing information in his infobox intrigued me. After doing some googling and finding his WAFL FootyFacts profile, I found that Cooper played 16 WAFL games over three seasons in the late '90s. This is not insignificant information, and certainly adds to the value of the infobox – which, like all infoboxes, is there to provide a snapshot of the article. Another infobox, this time for Geelong Hall of Famer and Team of the Century representative Alec Eason, omits his three fruitful seasons with Footscray in the VFA from 1922–1924, despite the fact he was reportedly the highest paid player in the sport at that time. This information is sourced in the article, but missing from the infobox. David Mirra played 155 games for Box Hill over the course of a decade, captaining 78 of those – a club record – yet only his 11 AFL games for Hawthorn rate worthy for inclusion in his infobox. As is the case in many of these instances, however, his state league achievements are well documented in the wildly inconsistent free-text area that is 'career highlights'. Brad Gotch is a player whose state league exploits are only partially included – his single (half)season for Port Adelaide in 1985 is there, but his three seasons with Dandenong from 1991 to 1993 are not. His infobox also falls foul to the inclusion of league abbreviations in the timeline, which are essentially useless as there is no need for disambiguation given clubs do not share names (above a country-league level, anyway). Geoff Austen, like Mirra, is another whose infobox contains timeline information only about his stint in the top league, yet whose highlights section is filled with information on his VFA achievements (in a messy manner, mind you, which I chose to illustrate the point about a permanent style being required).
Each of these infoboxes have been chosen to display the vast differences and inconsistencies that currently take place between players across the sport. Unlike some of the bigger sports on WP, there is (despite the best intentions of many) a lack of uniformity that goes a way to hindering WP's potential as an authority figure on Australian football.
Trent Cooper | |||
---|---|---|---|
![]() Cooper coaching Fremantle in January 2019 | |||
Personal information | |||
Full name | Trent Aaron Cooper | ||
Date of birth | 19 June 1974 | ||
Place of birth | Midland, Western Australia | ||
Playing career | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
1997–1998 | Peel Thunder | 14 (7) | |
1999 | Swan Districts | 2 (0) | |
Total | 16 (7) | ||
Coaching career3 | |||
Years | Club | Games (W–L–D) | |
2019–2022 (S7) | Fremantle ( W) | 47 (30–16–1) | |
3 Coaching statistics correct as of 2022 (S7). | |||
Source: WAFL FootyFacts |
Alec Eason | |||
---|---|---|---|
![]() Cigarette card of Eason in 1912 | |||
Personal information | |||
Full name | Alexander Eason | ||
Date of birth | 8 November 1889 | ||
Place of birth | Geelong, Victoria | ||
Date of death | 5 May 1956 | (aged 66)||
Place of death | Geelong, Victoria | ||
Original team(s) | Barwon | ||
Debut | Round 12, 1909, Geelong vs. Essendon, at Corio Oval | ||
Height | 175 cm (5 ft 9 in) | ||
Weight | 78 kg (172 lb) | ||
Playing career1 | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
1909–1915 | Geelong | 112 (57) | |
1916 | Richmond | 12 (8) | |
1919–1921 | Geelong | 38 (23) | |
Total | 162 (88) | ||
Coaching career | |||
Years | Club | Games (W–L–D) | |
1920 | Geelong | 16 | (5–11–0)|
1929 | Footscray | 18 | (6–11–1)|
Total | 34 (11–22–1) | ||
1 Playing statistics correct to the end of 1921. | |||
Career highlights | |||
David Mirra | |||
---|---|---|---|
![]() Mirra playing for Hawthorn in April 2019 | |||
Personal information | |||
Date of birth | 20 March 1991 | ||
Original team(s) | Box Hill ( VFL) | ||
Draft | No. 23, 2018 rookie draft | ||
Debut | Round 4, 2018, Hawthorn vs. Melbourne, at Melbourne Cricket Ground | ||
Height | 186 cm (6 ft 1 in) | ||
Weight | 89 kg (196 lb) | ||
Position(s) | Defender | ||
Club information | |||
Current club | Hawthorn | ||
Number | 32 | ||
Playing career1 | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
2018–2019 | Hawthorn | 11 (0) | |
1 Playing statistics correct to the end of 2019. | |||
Career highlights | |||
|
Brad Gotch | |||
---|---|---|---|
Personal information | |||
Full name | Bradley Gotch | ||
Date of birth | 23 June 1962 | ||
Original team(s) | East Doncaster | ||
Height | 166 cm (5 ft 5 in) | ||
Weight | 64 kg (141 lb) | ||
Playing career1 | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
1982–1985 | Fitzroy ( VFL/AFL) | 43 (60) | |
1985 | Port Adelaide ( SANFL) | 11 (25) | |
1986–1990 | St Kilda ( VFL/AFL) | 53 (62) | |
Coaching career | |||
Years | Club | Games (W–L–D) | |
1996–1997 | Springvale | 42 (30–12–0) | |
2002–2009 | Williamstown | 161 (93–66–2) | |
2010–2011 | Casey | 40 (25–15–0) | |
2014–2016 | South Adelaide | 59 (36–22–1) | |
2021– | West Adelaide | 16 (2-16-0) | |
1 Playing statistics correct to the end of 2016. |
Geoff Austen | |||
---|---|---|---|
Personal information | |||
Full name | Geoffrey Austen | ||
Nickname(s) | Texas | ||
Date of birth | 13 October 1953 | ||
Place of birth | Ivanhoe, Victoria | ||
Original team(s) | McLeod-Rosanna | ||
Height | 196 cm (6 ft 5 in) | ||
Weight | 105 kg (231 lb) | ||
Position(s) | Ruckman | ||
Playing career1 | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
1972–78 | Fitzroy | 85 (35) | |
1979, 1981 | Collingwood | 13 (3) | |
Total | 98 (38) | ||
1 Playing statistics correct to the end of 1981. | |||
Career highlights | |||
Kicking 4 goals in the night premiership for Collingwood under coach Tom Hafey, 1979. Liston Trophy 1982. Playing for Preston. Won the inaugural Norm Goss for Best on Ground in the 1983 Premiership match for Preston. Runner up to Billy Swan (Father of Dane Swan) in Liston Trophy 1983. Winning Best and Fairest two years in a row for Preston 1982, 1983. |
Joel Selwood | |||
---|---|---|---|
![]() Selwood in 2019 | |||
Personal information | |||
Full name | Joel Anthony Selwood | ||
Date of birth | 26 May 1988 | ||
Place of birth | Bendigo, Victoria, Australia | ||
Original team(s) |
Sandhurst (
BFL) Bendigo Pioneers ( TAC Cup) | ||
Draft | No. 7, 2006 national draft | ||
Height | 184 cm (6 ft 0 in) | ||
Weight | 84 kg (185 lb) | ||
Position(s) | Midfielder | ||
Playing career1 | |||
Years | Club | Games (Goals) | |
2007–2022 | Geelong | 355 (175) | |
Representative team honours | |||
Years | Team | Games (Goals) | |
2008 | Victoria | 1 (0) | |
International team honours | |||
2014, 2017 | Australia | 3 (0) | |
1 Playing statistics correct to the end of the 2022 season. 2 State and international statistics correct as of 2017. | |||
Career highlights | |||
|
Joel Selwood's infobox (see right) is held up as the supposed gold standard, but even that contains some odd stylistic inconsistencies as far as I can see – as a start, using both a colon and parentheses for the years of achievement in the career highlights section (it should be one or the other); using individual years rather than a date span for international representation (see soccer player infoboxes for best use); shuffling the order of team and individual achievements; omitting the years/team/games headers from the international representation section (although this is actually a template issue); and using abbreviations such as '(c)' in the All-Australian listings which are wikilinked to pages that don't explain what the '(c)' means.
It would be remiss of me to write all this up without providing some suggestions and/or jump-off points, so looking at some of the parameters where I think there are points up for discussion:
surname in year
, as opposed to the current documentation that suggests Matthew Pavlich kicking for goal in 2006
.full-forward
, not Full Forward
).YYYY–YYYY
, rather than YYYY–YY
as many seem to be. If a player plays for a club in a notable league, departs for another club in a notable league, and then returns to that first club, the two stints at said club should be listed as two separate 'years' spans. I would also argue that if a player departs for a club in a non-notable league (e.g. Colin Watson) and then returns to the first club, that the stints should also be separated. While this would give Watson three non-consecutive 'stints' at St Kilda in his infobox, I think it makes for a more accurate representation of his career transfers, rather than the reader assuming he was either injured or playing reserves in those fallow years.??
or (?)
like I see on some infoboxes. It is messy and not authoritative. There is an argument to include
?
, but I think it's probably best to just leave the space blank.statsend
parameters for national
and umpire
, and rep
should be renamed to soo
if not too technically difficult. The date style should also be formalised to avoid confusion; I see probably five different styles on a regular basis. My suggestions: for post-season stats updates – correct to the end of the YYYY season.
; for mid-season stats updates – correct to the end of round X, YYYY.
. Currently the template differs in the way it auto-formats these statsend
parameters – if you just enter a YYYY
year, it will say correct to the end of the YYYY season
for statsend
, but correct as of YYYY
for repstatsend
and coachstatsend
. This should be made consistent and, again, formalised.Tx achievement (YYYY, YYYY, YYYY)
. It's getting too late in the evening for me to decide what achievement should and shouldn't be included, and in what order they should be listed, but we can get to that as a group.I know it's a long post, and I appreciate if there's a lot of detail, but I am almost certain that most of the people on here have at least a base level of pedantry and/or thirst for accuracy and consistency that can see us get some good outcomes here. I'd love to know what the WP:AFL member base thinks of the above suggestions, and where we can go next in terms of improving not only our infoboxes, but also the amount of notable state league footballers on WP. Gibbsy spin 13:34, 19 September 2023 (UTC)
Good discussion to have. Some thoughts from me, feel free to take them or leave them as it's been a while now since I've been active:
Jenks24 ( talk) 07:30, 27 September 2023 (UTC)
Clubs: Having thought more about it, I remain of the view that we need to apply a case-by-case approach to which clubs appear in the club list. In my mind, the leagues are split into tiers: if a player's career at a lower tier is not generally considered of at least comparable importance to his career at a higher tier, then the lower tier leagues would be excluded from the table.
My view of the tiers is: Since the mid-1990s: 1. AFL; 2. VFL/WAFL/SANFL; 3. the rest From the WWII until 1990s: 1. AFL(VFL)/WAFL/SANFL. 2. VFA/TANFL/NTFA/NWFU. 3. The rest From WWI until WWII: 1. AFL(VFL)/WAFL/SANFL. 2. VFA/TANFL/NTFA. 3. The rest Until WWI: 1. AFL(VFL)/VFA/WAFL/SANFL/TFL/Goldfields/Barrier Ranges
I always like to use Barry Round and Peter McKenna as examples for how it works. Round's time at Williamstown, while not as notable as his time at South Melbourne and Footscray, is still looked back upon as a notable time in his career. But McKenna's one-year stints at Devonport, Geelong West, Port Melbourne and Northcote are all very much of lesser note than his time at Collingwood (and Carlton).
Original team/recruited from: Thinking through it, I do think 'recruited from' is the more suited piece of information for the infobox. In the zoning era, this would usually be the local club from which the player was first zoned to a state league team. In the draft era, it would usually be the state league under-18 club for which he played. For me, the most important thing is that we should never have a WAFL/SANFL club as 'original team' prior to the 90s. I think it's important that if a player had a notable senior WAFL/SANFL career prior to playing in the VFL (notable enough to go in the list of clubs) then his 'original team' should be a local club which preceded that. Good example: Andrew McKay. Bad example: this revision of Tony Antrobus. If we get nothing else from this discussion, let it be that. Aspirex ( talk) 21:16, 28 September 2023 (UTC)
OK, to start off with I'll list some small things which should be uncontroversial:
Agreements with others on small changes
|
---|
|
Now onto major or new suggestions:
Hey again – thanks for the patience. Here's the order that I've been using for career highlights (for AFL and their AFLW equivalent where applicable):
Career highlights order
|
---|
|
Feel free to discuss any potential tweaks, additions/removals, etc., but I feel like this will be pretty close to the mark. I've intentionally left out fan-voted awards like the 22under22 team and media awards so that we're just left with premierships and the main individual awards voted by the league, umpires, players, coaches and clubs (e.g. don't include third place in the club best and fairest even if the club has an official award for it, All-Australian squad, indivdual game/other club records, etc.), which I reckon most/all of us would feel are the most important; consequently, as we aren't going to see many players win all of these, most players' sections won't be too long. Otherwise, I still feel pretty strongly about all years being included in career (e.g. a player could spend three years on a list without getting an AFL game due to injury, etc. before landing at another club – you just going to leave that out?) and state leagues being an option for "recruited from" (e.g. a 22-year-old could be drafted after playing VFL for three years), as I think the team included should be the highest level before making the AFL/AFLW, even for 17-/18-year-old draftees. 4TheWynne (talk • contribs) 05:01, 2 October 2023 (UTC)
Career highlights order (amended)
|
---|
|
The only three changes made are: relegating Norm Smith and Gary Ayres to be among the major individual game awards (but top ranking among them); and, elimination of 'rising star nomination' (which I see as a much lower bar than, for example, placing in a club best and fairest); and addition of Mark/Goal of the Year, which even if fan voted are still very much distinguishing awards. It would follow that any club/league notable enough to be listed in the 'Clubs' list would have its equivalents included. Aspirex ( talk) 09:03, 3 October 2023 (UTC)
Hi all. Not sure if this has been discussed before, but I am wondering if, for the achievements profile for premiership coaches, it is worth merging "AFL premiership coach" and "All-Australian Coach" into one achievement by deleting the latter. The "All-Australian Coach" award is literally just given to the premiership winning coach, and is the exact same as the "AFL premiership coach" title. I feel as if it is superfluous to put on the achievements list on the page of each premiership coach and clogs up the section. Hroutley ( talk) 09:05, 3 November 2023 (UTC)
I've noticed that we currently have:
This seems like a mess to me. I would propose changing it to:
And then delete the Magpies, all competitions and simply "players" categories. This seems to be how we handle it for most other clubs (e.g. Category:Melbourne Football Club players for all VFL/AFL players and then Category:Melbourne Football Club (VFA) players and Category:Melbourne Football Club (pre-VFA) players for competitions prior to the current league the club is in). But I bring it here for discussion first because I realise Port are a unique situation. Jenks24 ( talk) 06:24, 6 November 2023 (UTC)
I may have missed an important debate here but I've noticed that some articles of players that have played senior VFL football or otherwise notable have been deleted. For example Clarrie Calwell, who played two senior games for Carlton in 1920, now just redirects to a list of Carlton players article. I noticed a similar situation for a Collingwood player who played one senior game in the early years of last century and Darren Bartsch, notable for being the only player drafted four times but never a game, also lost his article a while back.
Back in the day (probably a decade or so ago now) I recall being part of a discussion that led to an agreement that a player with one VFL game met notability requirements. What's the current thinking? Roisterer ( talk) 09:52, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Are we, as a project, doing Wikipedia a disservice by not already having an article on Harley Reid? I remember eons back there being discussions around articles for players who were either yet to be drafted, or who had been drafted but not yet played a game, and the general consensus was to wait until someone had played a senior AFL game to then create their article – even if that person was a number-one pick.
The interest in draft classes, underage championships and the Talent League has grown exponentially in recent years, probably coinciding with the move to allow future pick trading in each year's national draft. It is fair to say that Reid is the most talked about potential number-one draft pick we have seen, simply going by the online interest in his destination and his performances on the field. This article on AFL.com.au today by Cal Twomey goes a long way to demonstrating his celebrity status. Wearing casual clothes as a spectator on level 2 of the Carlton v Melbourne semi-final this year, he was stopped on six separate occasions by fans wanting a photo!
By any standard, Reid smashes the WP:GNG guidelines. He could break his leg tomorrow, go undrafted, never play a game and would still meet that criteria. It seems reductive to not have an article about him already. It is also fair to argue that by creating the article prior to his drafting, it will in turn increase the quality of the article as a whole as it will not suffer from WP:RECENTISM when he inevitably makes his debut. While I think Reid is the only player listed in Twomey's phantom draft who could feasibly cover WP:GNG, who is to say that can't change in future years, particularly if two players had an equal showing of going as pick number one. Where does everyone sit on this? Penny for your thoughts. Cheers! Gibbsy spin 10:29, 12 November 2023 (UTC)
Does anyone here have a copy of AFL Record Season Guide 2023 and can confirm (an image would be amazing, but I trust most editors here) that John Noble was elevated by Collingwood from rookie status? It seems to be what everyone thinks is true, and also appears here supported by a cite to the AFL Record, but I can't find an actual official/verifiable source for it online, and that is odd to me as I feel it would've made the news. If anyone has seen or can find a source for the information online, that would be great too! Thanks, -- SuperJew ( talk) 18:41, 20 November 2023 (UTC)
Tom Hawkins (footballer, born 1988) has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. ~~ AirshipJungleman29 ( talk) 21:58, 6 December 2023 (UTC)
I see that 4TheWynne has been using a new format to display trades, for example on the current AFLW trade period page (for comparison the previous format can be seen on the previous period's page. This format seems quite unclear for trades that involve more than two clubs (which seems to be a big percentage of AFLW trades). For example, the latest trade involving Brisbane, Collingwood, and Gold Coast. From the table I understand Howarth joined Collingwood but was she before that with Brisbane or Gold Coast? Smith joined Gold Coast, but was did she play before that for Collingwood or Brisbane? Who were picks 59 & 68 traded from? It gives an incomplete picture. -- SuperJew ( talk) 07:05, 13 December 2023 (UTC)
Looking for a DYK hook for the 2023 AFL Women's Grand Final. Barnstar awarded for suggestions at Template:Did you know nominations/2023 AFL Women's Grand Final. Hawkeye7 (discuss) 03:44, 14 December 2023 (UTC)
Howdy all. I've just added template data for Template:AFLGame which will theoretically make it a whole lot easier to add, update and edit games using the visual editor. Rather than parameters appearing simply as '1', '2', '3' etc. (thereby needing to know what number represents which parameter if updating a game with missing data), the parameters should all appear properly labelled, with the unnamed params serving as aliases for the named params. I've tested it on existing game templates and it works well, particularly the dropdown list of options (V, H, A, D) for the match result.
The only fields I determined should be mandatory 'home team', 'winner' (result), and 'away team'. Everything else (such as 'date', 'venue', 'crowd'), even the scores) has the potential to be missing data, especially in the case of olden times. This is my first time editing template data, and while I consider myself a fairly experienced Wikipedian having been here 15+ years, I'd still like someone with experience in the field to take a glance over it all — and, if possible, remove the existing parameter descriptions from the transcluded /doc so that only the new parameter descriptions appear on the template page.
In time, I'd like to complete the template data for Template:AFLGameDetailed, Template:AFLGameHeader, Template:AFLGameFooter and Template:AFLGameBye too. It'll make everything a lot cleaner. Cheers! Gibbsy spin 01:37, 18 January 2024 (UTC)
Input is requested at Talk:Nick Blakey § Thinking Man's Warwick Capper, regarding whether that is a legitimate nickname. Mitch Ames ( talk) 23:28, 30 January 2024 (UTC)
Australian rules football has been nominated for a good article reassessment. If you are interested in the discussion, please participate by adding your comments to the reassessment page. If concerns are not addressed during the review period, the good article status may be removed from the article. Onegreatjoke ( talk) 02:50, 1 March 2024 (UTC)
Visit if interested. – Tera tix ₵ 09:15, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
Noticed some inconsistency in the article naming convention at Brian Wilson (disambiguation), I'm not sure how you guys do the naming but one is labelled footballer and the other is labelled Australian rules footballer. Wheatzilopochtli ( talk) 19:58, 3 April 2024 (UTC)
Hey, I've added the full fixture for the 2024 VFL season. If someone has some time to help and add it to the 2024 VFL Women's season that would be great, as I don't have that much free time currently. Also another couple of people to keep an eye on these and update match results and ladder would be great :) -- SuperJew ( talk) 05:35, 4 April 2024 (UTC)