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Please consider reading the frequently asked questions for this page before asking any questions on this talk page. |
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The purpose of this discussion page is to manage the Level 3 list of 1,000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles (e.g. at WP:FA and WP:GA status). See the table to the right (on desktop) or above (on mobile) showing the historic distribution of Level 3 articles.
All level 3 nominations must be of an article already listed at level 4.
All proposals must remain open for !voting for a minimum of 15 days, after which:
Nominations should be left open beyond the minimum if they have a reasonable chance of passing. An informed discussion with more editor participation produces an improved and more stable final list, so be patient with the process.
For reference, the following times apply for today:
I know that there have been RfMs on moving this page to Vital Article Level 3 (which have failed), but I think the issue is that in the absence of a proper Vital Article landing page, this was the best fit, which makes sense.
However, I do find the Vital Article Project at times confusing to engage with and navigate, and the RfC above on the top icon shows that wider members of the Wikipedia community have chequered views of the VA Project.
I think there should be a proper VA landing page that explains the project, it's guidelines (e.g. can a redlink be nominated, must an article start at Level 5 before going higher etc.). There is a lot of good work being done here (and as the academic paper above highlights), but it is very easy to miss it (and even dismiss it, per above). Aszx5000 ( talk) 16:09, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
Importance Criterion | Example Quote |
---|---|
Everyday Significance | "An activity [sleep] that takes up 1/3 of your lifetime seems to be pretty vital to me." |
Cultural Significance | "Sports have in some form been a part of the vast majority of cultures for much of there history." |
Historical Significance | "The concept [bourgeoisie] has had a massive role in human history." |
Enduring Significance | "The repercussions [of the 2019-20 coronavirus pandemic] will be felt for many decades, at the very least." |
Breadth | "Folklore is the broader and more fundamental article [compared to Myth]." |
Global Criterion | Example Quote |
Balance | "If sport receives enough support then I think we should add an almost equivalent female dominated activity to balance things out (maybe dance)." |
Non-redundancy | "Everything on Earth is covered by Earth, and everything beyond Earth is of interest pretty much only for astronomy, which is covered by Science." |
Completeness | "The only type of activism we lack is women's rights - of which i would support Emmeline Pankhurst." |
The Blue Rider 13:24, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Per this discussion, I have created a crude draft 'landing page' for VA (and its talk page would be the VA talk page) at User:Aszx5000/Vital articles. Pinging @ MSGJ: and @ Interstellarity: who were also involved in the discussion. All reactions welcome ! thanks. 11:23, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
I'd like to propose, at all five levels of VA, that if a proposal reaches consensus, you can't make a counterproposal against that for at least six months. For example, if consensus resulted in an article being added, you can't propose to remove that article for six months. If consensus resulted in an article being added, you can't propose to remove that article for six months. Etc. etc. swaps are a little more complicated though p b p 01:51, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We already list
Telephone at this level which should cover all phones.
Interstellarity (
talk) 23:08, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Peter is one of the key rulers that changed Russia totally. There is even such expression "pre-Petrine Russia", there is no such expression as "pre-Catherinian Russia". Russian history is clearly divided into before (with the boyars, without any schools, without navy) and after Peter (with Governing Senate, with Academy of Sciences, with a big navy). His importance cannot be overstated. Interstellarity ( talk) 13:04, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
Under Economy 3, we currently list four industries within the Primary sector of the economy: Agriculture 2, Fishing 3, Hunting 3, and Mining 3; and two industries within the Secondary sector of the economy: Manufacturing 2 and Construction 3. We do not list any industry within the Tertiary sector of the economy at Level 3 or above.
Such a distribution between the three sectors is imbalanced, and within the primary sector, hunting is arguably the least important: most animals produced for human consumption (either for meat or animal products) are farmed (i.e., agriculture), not hunted. A case can be made for removing fishing instead, given that it is a subtopic of agriculture and seafood comprises a minority of meat consumed in most countries around the world, however it is probably a more widespread practice than hunting, so my preference is for the removal of hunting. Given that the tertiary sector is mostly about the provision of services, adding Service (economics) 4 makes sense.
We are over quota at 1,003, and we already list Algebra 3 which includes abstract algebra. Something has got to go here. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:47, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
We are over quota at 1,003. Jainism has only around 5 million followers. Compare to Judaism 3 (15+ million), Sikhism 3 (25+ million), Buddhism 3 (500+ million).... starship .paint ( RUN) 14:35, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
I think it would be helpful for our readers that may question why a particular article is listed. I understand that AI has the potential to make mistakes so I would suggest doing it for a few articles and correct any errors it makes. Rather than directing to the article to figure it out themselves, it would be helpful to have a sentence or two explaining the importance of each one. Interstellarity ( talk) 21:14, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Extremely common structure, most of us live in them, many of us work in them, also used for shopping, schooling, airports etc. starship .paint ( RUN) 02:50, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Since we have Martin Luther 3 on here, I think we should have Ali on here as well. The whole issue on whether he should have succeeded Muhammad immediately is the reason why Islam is mostly split into Sunni and Shia, and unlike the relationship between Catholicism and Protestantism, tensions between the two branches still flare up from time to time.
Seems more suited for V4 when you compare the other V3 Math articles in that section (e.g. 0 3, Complex number 3, Integer 3, Fraction 3). Yes, it's Top-importance for Math, but so are another 200+ articles. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:23, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
He is probably the most important businessperson we have on here, but I'm not sure if he's that important to warrant being a Level 3.
There are plenty of editors that suggested a straight addition rather than a swap with Catherine. My reasoning is in the above discussion. Interstellarity ( talk) 11:43, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
This article does not compare in scale with WWII, the Industrial Revolution, and the Information Age. Interstellarity ( talk) 00:06, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
We should list Korea 4 over South Korea 3 since we have broad coverage of the whole Korean Peninsula. The broad coverage of the Korean Peninsula and its history is more vital than the country of South Korea itself. At level 4, we list History of Korea while History of South Korea and History of North Korea are at level 5. We should do a similar thing at this level. Interstellarity ( talk) 16:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
We moved Moses and Abraham out of people and into religion because they were not placed into people at level 4. As I understand, the reasoning for not placing them there at level 4 is because historians generally consider them legendary figures and not real people. But I can't figure out why this would only apply to religious figures. In level 3, Homer and Laozi, in particular, are widely considered to be not real people. Both are generally believed to have been invented to be writers for the works now attributed to them, which were actually written by various other people. I suggest moving them out of the people category because they are not people. As to the new destinations, I suggest under literature for Homer and under Eastern philosophy next to Confucianism for Laozi. I believe those are the only two non-people remaining in the people category, but if I am mistaken let me know and I'll add that to the list. Ladtrack ( talk) 07:12, 7 June 2024 (UTC)
This is the
talk page for discussing improvements to the
Vital articles page. |
|
Archives: Index, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, 8, 9, 10, 11, 12, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 22, 23, 24, 25, 26, 27Auto-archiving period: 120 days |
Vital Articles | ||||
|
Please consider reading the frequently asked questions for this page before asking any questions on this talk page. |
This section is pinned and will not be automatically archived. |
|
The purpose of this discussion page is to manage the Level 3 list of 1,000 topics for which Wikipedia should have high-quality articles (e.g. at WP:FA and WP:GA status). See the table to the right (on desktop) or above (on mobile) showing the historic distribution of Level 3 articles.
All level 3 nominations must be of an article already listed at level 4.
All proposals must remain open for !voting for a minimum of 15 days, after which:
Nominations should be left open beyond the minimum if they have a reasonable chance of passing. An informed discussion with more editor participation produces an improved and more stable final list, so be patient with the process.
For reference, the following times apply for today:
I know that there have been RfMs on moving this page to Vital Article Level 3 (which have failed), but I think the issue is that in the absence of a proper Vital Article landing page, this was the best fit, which makes sense.
However, I do find the Vital Article Project at times confusing to engage with and navigate, and the RfC above on the top icon shows that wider members of the Wikipedia community have chequered views of the VA Project.
I think there should be a proper VA landing page that explains the project, it's guidelines (e.g. can a redlink be nominated, must an article start at Level 5 before going higher etc.). There is a lot of good work being done here (and as the academic paper above highlights), but it is very easy to miss it (and even dismiss it, per above). Aszx5000 ( talk) 16:09, 30 December 2023 (UTC)
Importance Criterion | Example Quote |
---|---|
Everyday Significance | "An activity [sleep] that takes up 1/3 of your lifetime seems to be pretty vital to me." |
Cultural Significance | "Sports have in some form been a part of the vast majority of cultures for much of there history." |
Historical Significance | "The concept [bourgeoisie] has had a massive role in human history." |
Enduring Significance | "The repercussions [of the 2019-20 coronavirus pandemic] will be felt for many decades, at the very least." |
Breadth | "Folklore is the broader and more fundamental article [compared to Myth]." |
Global Criterion | Example Quote |
Balance | "If sport receives enough support then I think we should add an almost equivalent female dominated activity to balance things out (maybe dance)." |
Non-redundancy | "Everything on Earth is covered by Earth, and everything beyond Earth is of interest pretty much only for astronomy, which is covered by Science." |
Completeness | "The only type of activism we lack is women's rights - of which i would support Emmeline Pankhurst." |
The Blue Rider 13:24, 3 June 2024 (UTC)
Per this discussion, I have created a crude draft 'landing page' for VA (and its talk page would be the VA talk page) at User:Aszx5000/Vital articles. Pinging @ MSGJ: and @ Interstellarity: who were also involved in the discussion. All reactions welcome ! thanks. 11:23, 2 June 2024 (UTC)
I'd like to propose, at all five levels of VA, that if a proposal reaches consensus, you can't make a counterproposal against that for at least six months. For example, if consensus resulted in an article being added, you can't propose to remove that article for six months. If consensus resulted in an article being added, you can't propose to remove that article for six months. Etc. etc. swaps are a little more complicated though p b p 01:51, 29 January 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
We already list
Telephone at this level which should cover all phones.
Interstellarity (
talk) 23:08, 20 February 2024 (UTC)
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
Peter is one of the key rulers that changed Russia totally. There is even such expression "pre-Petrine Russia", there is no such expression as "pre-Catherinian Russia". Russian history is clearly divided into before (with the boyars, without any schools, without navy) and after Peter (with Governing Senate, with Academy of Sciences, with a big navy). His importance cannot be overstated. Interstellarity ( talk) 13:04, 12 March 2024 (UTC)
Under Economy 3, we currently list four industries within the Primary sector of the economy: Agriculture 2, Fishing 3, Hunting 3, and Mining 3; and two industries within the Secondary sector of the economy: Manufacturing 2 and Construction 3. We do not list any industry within the Tertiary sector of the economy at Level 3 or above.
Such a distribution between the three sectors is imbalanced, and within the primary sector, hunting is arguably the least important: most animals produced for human consumption (either for meat or animal products) are farmed (i.e., agriculture), not hunted. A case can be made for removing fishing instead, given that it is a subtopic of agriculture and seafood comprises a minority of meat consumed in most countries around the world, however it is probably a more widespread practice than hunting, so my preference is for the removal of hunting. Given that the tertiary sector is mostly about the provision of services, adding Service (economics) 4 makes sense.
We are over quota at 1,003, and we already list Algebra 3 which includes abstract algebra. Something has got to go here. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:47, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
We are over quota at 1,003. Jainism has only around 5 million followers. Compare to Judaism 3 (15+ million), Sikhism 3 (25+ million), Buddhism 3 (500+ million).... starship .paint ( RUN) 14:35, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
I think it would be helpful for our readers that may question why a particular article is listed. I understand that AI has the potential to make mistakes so I would suggest doing it for a few articles and correct any errors it makes. Rather than directing to the article to figure it out themselves, it would be helpful to have a sentence or two explaining the importance of each one. Interstellarity ( talk) 21:14, 11 May 2024 (UTC)
Extremely common structure, most of us live in them, many of us work in them, also used for shopping, schooling, airports etc. starship .paint ( RUN) 02:50, 13 May 2024 (UTC)
Since we have Martin Luther 3 on here, I think we should have Ali on here as well. The whole issue on whether he should have succeeded Muhammad immediately is the reason why Islam is mostly split into Sunni and Shia, and unlike the relationship between Catholicism and Protestantism, tensions between the two branches still flare up from time to time.
Seems more suited for V4 when you compare the other V3 Math articles in that section (e.g. 0 3, Complex number 3, Integer 3, Fraction 3). Yes, it's Top-importance for Math, but so are another 200+ articles. starship .paint ( RUN) 09:23, 15 May 2024 (UTC)
He is probably the most important businessperson we have on here, but I'm not sure if he's that important to warrant being a Level 3.
There are plenty of editors that suggested a straight addition rather than a swap with Catherine. My reasoning is in the above discussion. Interstellarity ( talk) 11:43, 18 May 2024 (UTC)
This article does not compare in scale with WWII, the Industrial Revolution, and the Information Age. Interstellarity ( talk) 00:06, 20 May 2024 (UTC)
We should list Korea 4 over South Korea 3 since we have broad coverage of the whole Korean Peninsula. The broad coverage of the Korean Peninsula and its history is more vital than the country of South Korea itself. At level 4, we list History of Korea while History of South Korea and History of North Korea are at level 5. We should do a similar thing at this level. Interstellarity ( talk) 16:58, 30 May 2024 (UTC)
We moved Moses and Abraham out of people and into religion because they were not placed into people at level 4. As I understand, the reasoning for not placing them there at level 4 is because historians generally consider them legendary figures and not real people. But I can't figure out why this would only apply to religious figures. In level 3, Homer and Laozi, in particular, are widely considered to be not real people. Both are generally believed to have been invented to be writers for the works now attributed to them, which were actually written by various other people. I suggest moving them out of the people category because they are not people. As to the new destinations, I suggest under literature for Homer and under Eastern philosophy next to Confucianism for Laozi. I believe those are the only two non-people remaining in the people category, but if I am mistaken let me know and I'll add that to the list. Ladtrack ( talk) 07:12, 7 June 2024 (UTC)