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I have been working on Cheers-related articles. I read that spoilers are normally discouraged in lead sections. How would the general discouragement affect character pages, like Diane Chambers, Rebecca Howe, Sam Malone, and Frasier Crane? I already spoiled their last appearances to readers. Also, I am doing my best to not put too much in intros of episode pages, like I Do, Adieu, Home Is the Sailor (Cheers), One for the Road (Cheers), and The Show Where Sam Shows Up. -- George Ho ( talk) 04:32, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
I expanded and reworked the leads in Sam Malone, Diane Chambers, and Rebecca Howe. I hope my spoiling the details in the ledes help readers adequately understand the characters without ruining their enjoyments (or anticipation). George Ho ( talk) 04:04, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
My question is along these lines. For most TV shows, there are short "episode summaries" on pages for each season - should these summaries for active TV shows include "spoilers", especially when such spoilers aren't yet certain? One example is when a major character is apparently killed at the very end of an episode, yet that apparent death isn't itself the focal point of the episode - yet the show has shown in the past that "dead doesn't always mean dead". I'm not talking Game of Thrones "Snow is stabbed several times by mutineers, including Thorne and Olly" or Dallas "J.R. while working late at the office, is shot." But more Battlestar Galactica "Col. Tigh poisons his wife Ellen" (which is *NOT* in the season-page episode summary.) In the instance I am really curious about, the latest episode has a major-but-not-the-main character apparently killed in the final shot of the episode. Yet this series has shown the ability to "bring back from the dead" characters. Yet the summary for that episode specifically calls out "...fatally injured..." We don't actually know for certain, and it would be a *HELL* of a spoiler for an active TV show for someone who hasn't watched that episode yet. (All the other details are fairly obvious details one could deduce simply from the "preview" shown at the end of the previous episode.) 71.193.197.92 ( talk) 06:52, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
How can we get a policy change for spoilers to not be in the cast list section? Stranger Things 4 is getting spoiled, a giant huge character reveal. I see no reason behind spoiling in the cast list and it's so frustrating for those in control to see absolutely no issue with it. Yet, many viewers of all types of shows are expressing their displeasure about that. In Stranger Things case, the character was given a fake name to not give away the spoiler. The own network hides it. And just the idea of spoiling something in a cast list. I can not tell you how frustrated I am. We should be able to glance at articles and not see huge spoilers unless we click on the episode summaries. This would save so many headaches. Daleylife ( talk) 16:51, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
I think the issue is too general to describe. Therefore, I'll provide two specific scenarios. In Scenario A, a biography of a novelist contains spoilers about non-notable works that s/he wrote. How much spoilers can the biography appropriately contain, especially if a work may not garner enough notable reviews for a stand-alone article? For example, Sheila Walsh (novelist).
In scenario B, a biography of a novelist contains some spoilers of notable novels that the person wrote. What if both a biography and an article about the notable novel exist? How much a biography can contain spoilers about a notable work? For example, Jane Austen and Pride and Prejudice; J. K. Rowling and Harry Potter. -- George Ho ( talk) 01:33, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
What should we do if a fictional character's real name is a spoiler itself? See Talk:Rey (Star Wars)#Requested move 18 December 2019 (but please don't, if you don't want to spoil The Rise of Skywalker for yourself!); I'm trying to decide whether to move that article to the character's changed name.
On other wikis, such as Bulbapedia, there is a soft redirect template for such characters; for example, see the Bulbapedia article about the Masked Man from Pokémon Adventures. The top of the article contains the template "Softredirect", with a note reading: "This soft redirect exists to avoid revealing a critical plot twist without warning."
Could such a template be used in instances like the Rey article to avoid spoilers, or is that WP:FANCRUFT? ωικιωαrrιor ᑫᑫ1ᑫ 12:25, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
The logic behind getting rid of spoiler warnings was that anyone reading an article about a work of fiction should already expect to find information about the plot there. However, that doesn't mean that an article about a tangentially-related subject should include a gratuitous spoiler where there isn't a particular reason to mention it, and I think this article should say so. (For example, the article about Emil Jannings mentions that he appears in a cameo in a fictional setting in the film Inglourious Basterds, which is fair enough, but then it went on to describe how the film ends, which doesn't really belong in an article about a real person, and nobody reading his article would expect to stumble across that information there.) Richard75 ( talk) 23:30, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
I would like to see the policy regarding spoilers in tv episode synopeses updated. Including spoilers in tv show episodes ruins any enjoyment for viewers of the show. By example, [ episode of this tv show] includes a spoiler, while the other episodes do not, and that one description cannot be changed due to the policy of not making edits to remove spoilers. As was pointed out earlier in this talk page, " the guideline states "A spoiler is a piece of information about a narrative work (such as a book, film, television series, or a video game) which reveals plot points or twists and thus may degrade the experience of persons who wish to experience the work themselves."" Sideriver84 ( talk) 18:29, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
I've been wondering. Are images and other non-free content spoiling a plot appropriate as lead images, or must they be pushed down into body, like either Plot section or Reception section? E.g. a non-free screenshot in The Boys in the Bar, which I uploaded. -- George Ho ( talk) 06:23, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
An encyclopedia at its most fundamental is not simply a receptacle of facts. It is a useful collection of facts categorised and arranged in a way that is most convenient and helpful to a reader. The current stance of Wikipedia with regards to spoilers is essentially caveat emptor, the reader is not safe to look up basic information about a person or character or even tangentially related subjects. If the reader does not feel safe to use Wikipedia then what is it good for? The encyclopedia should strive to present the information in a way that allows the reader to choose what information they wish to access. It should be properly labelled and arranged into sections. It should also do no harm so as to be safe to use. Information that can serve as a spoiler should be restricted to well earmarked sections. For example, an article about Darth Vader should not include the characters birth name in the opening paragraph. If there is feasibly one person who does not have that knowledge, it is not the job of an encyclopedia to reveal a plot element in a work of fiction. It is the job of an encyclopedia to present pertinent information such as the fact that the character is mysterious and that his identity is a mystery. That is who Darth Vader is at the start of the original movie and the user has not requested information of 'character name', they requested information on Darth Vader. This was just an example. The point of an encyclopedia is to be useful, not to contain all facts regardless of how damaging those facts could be. 2A00:23C5:8E81:9201:66E9:323D:C307:F271 ( talk) 14:08, 25 November 2023 (UTC)
Please stay calm and civil while commenting or presenting evidence, and do not make personal attacks. Be patient when approaching solutions to any issues. If consensus is not reached, other solutions exist to draw attention and ensure that more editors mediate or comment on the dispute. |
Index
| ||||||||||||||||||
Other archives: |
||||||||||||||||||
This page has archives. Sections older than 14 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 7 sections are present. |
I have been working on Cheers-related articles. I read that spoilers are normally discouraged in lead sections. How would the general discouragement affect character pages, like Diane Chambers, Rebecca Howe, Sam Malone, and Frasier Crane? I already spoiled their last appearances to readers. Also, I am doing my best to not put too much in intros of episode pages, like I Do, Adieu, Home Is the Sailor (Cheers), One for the Road (Cheers), and The Show Where Sam Shows Up. -- George Ho ( talk) 04:32, 7 February 2017 (UTC)
I expanded and reworked the leads in Sam Malone, Diane Chambers, and Rebecca Howe. I hope my spoiling the details in the ledes help readers adequately understand the characters without ruining their enjoyments (or anticipation). George Ho ( talk) 04:04, 8 February 2017 (UTC)
My question is along these lines. For most TV shows, there are short "episode summaries" on pages for each season - should these summaries for active TV shows include "spoilers", especially when such spoilers aren't yet certain? One example is when a major character is apparently killed at the very end of an episode, yet that apparent death isn't itself the focal point of the episode - yet the show has shown in the past that "dead doesn't always mean dead". I'm not talking Game of Thrones "Snow is stabbed several times by mutineers, including Thorne and Olly" or Dallas "J.R. while working late at the office, is shot." But more Battlestar Galactica "Col. Tigh poisons his wife Ellen" (which is *NOT* in the season-page episode summary.) In the instance I am really curious about, the latest episode has a major-but-not-the-main character apparently killed in the final shot of the episode. Yet this series has shown the ability to "bring back from the dead" characters. Yet the summary for that episode specifically calls out "...fatally injured..." We don't actually know for certain, and it would be a *HELL* of a spoiler for an active TV show for someone who hasn't watched that episode yet. (All the other details are fairly obvious details one could deduce simply from the "preview" shown at the end of the previous episode.) 71.193.197.92 ( talk) 06:52, 27 March 2017 (UTC)
How can we get a policy change for spoilers to not be in the cast list section? Stranger Things 4 is getting spoiled, a giant huge character reveal. I see no reason behind spoiling in the cast list and it's so frustrating for those in control to see absolutely no issue with it. Yet, many viewers of all types of shows are expressing their displeasure about that. In Stranger Things case, the character was given a fake name to not give away the spoiler. The own network hides it. And just the idea of spoiling something in a cast list. I can not tell you how frustrated I am. We should be able to glance at articles and not see huge spoilers unless we click on the episode summaries. This would save so many headaches. Daleylife ( talk) 16:51, 12 June 2022 (UTC)
I think the issue is too general to describe. Therefore, I'll provide two specific scenarios. In Scenario A, a biography of a novelist contains spoilers about non-notable works that s/he wrote. How much spoilers can the biography appropriately contain, especially if a work may not garner enough notable reviews for a stand-alone article? For example, Sheila Walsh (novelist).
In scenario B, a biography of a novelist contains some spoilers of notable novels that the person wrote. What if both a biography and an article about the notable novel exist? How much a biography can contain spoilers about a notable work? For example, Jane Austen and Pride and Prejudice; J. K. Rowling and Harry Potter. -- George Ho ( talk) 01:33, 6 March 2017 (UTC)
What should we do if a fictional character's real name is a spoiler itself? See Talk:Rey (Star Wars)#Requested move 18 December 2019 (but please don't, if you don't want to spoil The Rise of Skywalker for yourself!); I'm trying to decide whether to move that article to the character's changed name.
On other wikis, such as Bulbapedia, there is a soft redirect template for such characters; for example, see the Bulbapedia article about the Masked Man from Pokémon Adventures. The top of the article contains the template "Softredirect", with a note reading: "This soft redirect exists to avoid revealing a critical plot twist without warning."
Could such a template be used in instances like the Rey article to avoid spoilers, or is that WP:FANCRUFT? ωικιωαrrιor ᑫᑫ1ᑫ 12:25, 19 December 2019 (UTC)
The logic behind getting rid of spoiler warnings was that anyone reading an article about a work of fiction should already expect to find information about the plot there. However, that doesn't mean that an article about a tangentially-related subject should include a gratuitous spoiler where there isn't a particular reason to mention it, and I think this article should say so. (For example, the article about Emil Jannings mentions that he appears in a cameo in a fictional setting in the film Inglourious Basterds, which is fair enough, but then it went on to describe how the film ends, which doesn't really belong in an article about a real person, and nobody reading his article would expect to stumble across that information there.) Richard75 ( talk) 23:30, 21 October 2020 (UTC)
I would like to see the policy regarding spoilers in tv episode synopeses updated. Including spoilers in tv show episodes ruins any enjoyment for viewers of the show. By example, [ episode of this tv show] includes a spoiler, while the other episodes do not, and that one description cannot be changed due to the policy of not making edits to remove spoilers. As was pointed out earlier in this talk page, " the guideline states "A spoiler is a piece of information about a narrative work (such as a book, film, television series, or a video game) which reveals plot points or twists and thus may degrade the experience of persons who wish to experience the work themselves."" Sideriver84 ( talk) 18:29, 22 October 2021 (UTC)
I've been wondering. Are images and other non-free content spoiling a plot appropriate as lead images, or must they be pushed down into body, like either Plot section or Reception section? E.g. a non-free screenshot in The Boys in the Bar, which I uploaded. -- George Ho ( talk) 06:23, 29 January 2022 (UTC)
An encyclopedia at its most fundamental is not simply a receptacle of facts. It is a useful collection of facts categorised and arranged in a way that is most convenient and helpful to a reader. The current stance of Wikipedia with regards to spoilers is essentially caveat emptor, the reader is not safe to look up basic information about a person or character or even tangentially related subjects. If the reader does not feel safe to use Wikipedia then what is it good for? The encyclopedia should strive to present the information in a way that allows the reader to choose what information they wish to access. It should be properly labelled and arranged into sections. It should also do no harm so as to be safe to use. Information that can serve as a spoiler should be restricted to well earmarked sections. For example, an article about Darth Vader should not include the characters birth name in the opening paragraph. If there is feasibly one person who does not have that knowledge, it is not the job of an encyclopedia to reveal a plot element in a work of fiction. It is the job of an encyclopedia to present pertinent information such as the fact that the character is mysterious and that his identity is a mystery. That is who Darth Vader is at the start of the original movie and the user has not requested information of 'character name', they requested information on Darth Vader. This was just an example. The point of an encyclopedia is to be useful, not to contain all facts regardless of how damaging those facts could be. 2A00:23C5:8E81:9201:66E9:323D:C307:F271 ( talk) 14:08, 25 November 2023 (UTC)