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Essays Low‑impact ![]() | |||||||||
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![]() | Please read the article page
here fully before placing a comment here, in order to make sure you understand the proposed review process. This review process is currently at Collate: Recommendations from editors are now being reviewed and analyzed, with the goal of generating specific policy proposals. |
A Review of the Requests for Adminship Process |
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I know we want to add a section offering background on adminship - sort of a where we are, where we've been section - but what other prose items do we need to add? I'm reading through, and wondering if we can kill two birds with one survey by drawing up conclusions and using those conclusions as the basis for the Recommend phase survey. Thoughts? UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 16:19, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
<- I think we will want to branch out in two directions. The Reflect Report should end with statements such as this:
For the recommendation questionnaire, We'd frame the question this way:
We'll either get concrete so-fix-it style responses, with policy proposals that could be turned into policy, or we'll get "Once the culture of RfA changes, these problems will go away", or we'll get "I don't see those concerns as a problem." UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 12:59, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm seeing several recommendations from the RfA Review that are listed as Perennial Proposals. For example, 16 editors suggested that admins should stand for reconfirmation periodically - and this is listed as a perennial proposal, which fails largely due to the scale of the task (over 25 reconfirmations per week for the 1,500+ admins currently on the list). Do we still forward this as a proposal? Or do we cite WP:PEREN, and go in a different direction? De-bundling the tools is on there as well, with its failure cited as a technical issue. Is that worth revisiting? UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 14:24, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
On my RfA Review page, I said:
...I believe there are many people who hang out at WP:RfA would can tell with 80% or 90% accuracy whether a candidate is likely to pass or not. It would save the time of people at WP:RfA, improve the quality of their advice (since they wouldn't have as much work to do), and save the time and feelings of the candidates, if people would hold their fire, and the process would start with someone knowledgeable saying something like "Please look at the following 3 previous candidates whose contributions remind me of yours...notice they didn't succeed, and consider the advice they got. Are you sure you want to do this now, or would you like to prepare a bit first?" The question should only come from someone who has a track record of making the right call and of having the best interests of the candidate at heart; asking a candidate to withdraw for any other reason is like to either be or be perceived as bullying.
I haven't seen discussion on other pages about the negative consequences of failure. If someone thinks they'll do great at RfA if they just do X, Y and Z, and they spend 3 months jumping through what they think are the right hoops, and fail, it's likely to sour them on Wikipedia. We don't need to say "You can't run for RfA unless you've been active for 6 months", but having a few people act in the role of "trusted advocates", with the job of giving sound advice to any candidate about their chances based on the track record of similar candidates at RfA, would probably streamline the process, save people's time, and help morale all around. - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 16:23, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
←Absolutely! I complained about style guidelines, and all it got me was the "honor" of doing the monthly WT:UPDATES :). That's actually not a bad idea; people would trust statistics even more than they'd trust an advisor. Excellent approach. - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 18:46, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
As a point of information, based on the last 25 successful Candidates for Adminship (from Lifebaka to Ice Cold Beer), the average support ratio is 94.08% (Support/Total, discounting Neutrals). The average editcount at the beginning of the RfA was 10963. If we take J.delanoy and Good Ol'factory out, both of whom had well over 45000 edits at the start of their RfAs, the average is still 8003. The average age of account for each candidate, as measured from first edit to the RfA being transcluded, is 22 months. Haven't looked at Unsuccessfuls yet, but I suddenly found this fascinating, so I thought I'd post it. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 19:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
OK, so I've taken the most common (or strongest) sentiments from the responses and tried to draft recommendations around them. These took the form of "Editors said RfA should be X and Y, how should we accomplish this?" The dilemma - I have 16 of these already. For reference, we had 15 questions. Please review the draft, and see if we're missing any major items from the responses. Please also rephrase my wording wherever I was unclear; the simpler we can be, the easier it'll be for editors to respond. Thanks, UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 13:48, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
<-- I've added two questions, intended to review RfA and adminship overall. The first refers to the characteristics of admins, and asks if the process could be geared to focus on the trustworthiness issue (being the sole criteria cited in policy) or a set of desirable characteristics. The second asks the respondent to list parts of RfA that work, and contrast them with parts that don't. This question, I think, will be useful in weighting the recommendations - a strong response that questions are bad, for example, would lend greater weight to recommendations for changing the question portion of RfA. How does this work? UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 19:57, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
<-- How long do people have to prepare their answers to the questions? I think this should be placed on the page, not sure how long it was in regard to the previous steps. Also i have changed the message at the top of this page to reflect the stage where it is at now, feel free to tweak or change it. Thanks Monster Under Your Bed ( talk) 12:46, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
The questionaire makes the request for adminship process look worse than choosing and getting into university. The questionaire should be redone by a different group of people. -- Gerry Ashton ( talk) 23:06, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
This should be of interest in the current discussion: Academic_studies_about_Wikipedia#Obtaining_administratorship. VG ☎ 18:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
If your looking at this page then the following discussion starting from here: Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship#7_admins_created_in_Sep_08._Crat_happy_to_nominate_.22unusual.22_RfAs. should be of great interest. 211.30.12.197 ( talk) 07:54, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
As we begin to wrap up the Recommend phase, I note that 273 editors have formatted subpages for the RfA Review Recommendations. Are there thoughts on how to find the most common recommendations from that list? I am inclined to use a statistical model, as we did last time around, but wanted to get some input first. Thoughts? UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 18:09, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
I've read through the first 24 responses, and they're good ones. About the only clear consensus at this point is that automatic reconfirmation sucks - but we already have more than 100 distinct recommendations on everything from RFA Clerks (!) to hybrid New Admin School/Coaching/Editor Review programs to neutral canvassing (!). Hopefully, next week I'll start posting tally lists. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 14:25, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure who's managing this process, but it seems to have stalled :( Stifle ( talk) 12:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Given the recent developments over various topics and threads ... I'd like to kick this thing in the rear, and get some communication flowing in all directions. I'm interested in how RfA has an impact on those who have endured it. How has it affected your point of view in regards to both WP and RfA in general. How has it affected editing patterns. — Ched : ? 17:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)
![]() |
Essays Low‑impact ![]() | |||||||||
|
![]() | Please read the article page
here fully before placing a comment here, in order to make sure you understand the proposed review process. This review process is currently at Collate: Recommendations from editors are now being reviewed and analyzed, with the goal of generating specific policy proposals. |
A Review of the Requests for Adminship Process |
---|
|
I know we want to add a section offering background on adminship - sort of a where we are, where we've been section - but what other prose items do we need to add? I'm reading through, and wondering if we can kill two birds with one survey by drawing up conclusions and using those conclusions as the basis for the Recommend phase survey. Thoughts? UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 16:19, 25 August 2008 (UTC)
<- I think we will want to branch out in two directions. The Reflect Report should end with statements such as this:
For the recommendation questionnaire, We'd frame the question this way:
We'll either get concrete so-fix-it style responses, with policy proposals that could be turned into policy, or we'll get "Once the culture of RfA changes, these problems will go away", or we'll get "I don't see those concerns as a problem." UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 12:59, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
I'm seeing several recommendations from the RfA Review that are listed as Perennial Proposals. For example, 16 editors suggested that admins should stand for reconfirmation periodically - and this is listed as a perennial proposal, which fails largely due to the scale of the task (over 25 reconfirmations per week for the 1,500+ admins currently on the list). Do we still forward this as a proposal? Or do we cite WP:PEREN, and go in a different direction? De-bundling the tools is on there as well, with its failure cited as a technical issue. Is that worth revisiting? UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 14:24, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
On my RfA Review page, I said:
...I believe there are many people who hang out at WP:RfA would can tell with 80% or 90% accuracy whether a candidate is likely to pass or not. It would save the time of people at WP:RfA, improve the quality of their advice (since they wouldn't have as much work to do), and save the time and feelings of the candidates, if people would hold their fire, and the process would start with someone knowledgeable saying something like "Please look at the following 3 previous candidates whose contributions remind me of yours...notice they didn't succeed, and consider the advice they got. Are you sure you want to do this now, or would you like to prepare a bit first?" The question should only come from someone who has a track record of making the right call and of having the best interests of the candidate at heart; asking a candidate to withdraw for any other reason is like to either be or be perceived as bullying.
I haven't seen discussion on other pages about the negative consequences of failure. If someone thinks they'll do great at RfA if they just do X, Y and Z, and they spend 3 months jumping through what they think are the right hoops, and fail, it's likely to sour them on Wikipedia. We don't need to say "You can't run for RfA unless you've been active for 6 months", but having a few people act in the role of "trusted advocates", with the job of giving sound advice to any candidate about their chances based on the track record of similar candidates at RfA, would probably streamline the process, save people's time, and help morale all around. - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 16:23, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
←Absolutely! I complained about style guidelines, and all it got me was the "honor" of doing the monthly WT:UPDATES :). That's actually not a bad idea; people would trust statistics even more than they'd trust an advisor. Excellent approach. - Dan Dank55 ( send/receive) 18:46, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
As a point of information, based on the last 25 successful Candidates for Adminship (from Lifebaka to Ice Cold Beer), the average support ratio is 94.08% (Support/Total, discounting Neutrals). The average editcount at the beginning of the RfA was 10963. If we take J.delanoy and Good Ol'factory out, both of whom had well over 45000 edits at the start of their RfAs, the average is still 8003. The average age of account for each candidate, as measured from first edit to the RfA being transcluded, is 22 months. Haven't looked at Unsuccessfuls yet, but I suddenly found this fascinating, so I thought I'd post it. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 19:35, 27 August 2008 (UTC)
OK, so I've taken the most common (or strongest) sentiments from the responses and tried to draft recommendations around them. These took the form of "Editors said RfA should be X and Y, how should we accomplish this?" The dilemma - I have 16 of these already. For reference, we had 15 questions. Please review the draft, and see if we're missing any major items from the responses. Please also rephrase my wording wherever I was unclear; the simpler we can be, the easier it'll be for editors to respond. Thanks, UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 13:48, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
<-- I've added two questions, intended to review RfA and adminship overall. The first refers to the characteristics of admins, and asks if the process could be geared to focus on the trustworthiness issue (being the sole criteria cited in policy) or a set of desirable characteristics. The second asks the respondent to list parts of RfA that work, and contrast them with parts that don't. This question, I think, will be useful in weighting the recommendations - a strong response that questions are bad, for example, would lend greater weight to recommendations for changing the question portion of RfA. How does this work? UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 19:57, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
<-- How long do people have to prepare their answers to the questions? I think this should be placed on the page, not sure how long it was in regard to the previous steps. Also i have changed the message at the top of this page to reflect the stage where it is at now, feel free to tweak or change it. Thanks Monster Under Your Bed ( talk) 12:46, 13 September 2008 (UTC)
The questionaire makes the request for adminship process look worse than choosing and getting into university. The questionaire should be redone by a different group of people. -- Gerry Ashton ( talk) 23:06, 22 September 2008 (UTC)
This should be of interest in the current discussion: Academic_studies_about_Wikipedia#Obtaining_administratorship. VG ☎ 18:36, 25 September 2008 (UTC)
If your looking at this page then the following discussion starting from here: Wikipedia_talk:Requests_for_adminship#7_admins_created_in_Sep_08._Crat_happy_to_nominate_.22unusual.22_RfAs. should be of great interest. 211.30.12.197 ( talk) 07:54, 4 October 2008 (UTC)
As we begin to wrap up the Recommend phase, I note that 273 editors have formatted subpages for the RfA Review Recommendations. Are there thoughts on how to find the most common recommendations from that list? I am inclined to use a statistical model, as we did last time around, but wanted to get some input first. Thoughts? UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 18:09, 12 October 2008 (UTC)
I've read through the first 24 responses, and they're good ones. About the only clear consensus at this point is that automatic reconfirmation sucks - but we already have more than 100 distinct recommendations on everything from RFA Clerks (!) to hybrid New Admin School/Coaching/Editor Review programs to neutral canvassing (!). Hopefully, next week I'll start posting tally lists. UltraExactZZ Claims ~ Evidence 14:25, 7 November 2008 (UTC)
I'm not sure who's managing this process, but it seems to have stalled :( Stifle ( talk) 12:23, 13 January 2009 (UTC)
Given the recent developments over various topics and threads ... I'd like to kick this thing in the rear, and get some communication flowing in all directions. I'm interested in how RfA has an impact on those who have endured it. How has it affected your point of view in regards to both WP and RfA in general. How has it affected editing patterns. — Ched : ? 17:10, 25 May 2009 (UTC)