I'm ahead!
Sam [ Spade] 15:46, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
You don't get made an admin by simple majority. Rick K 19:39, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)
And it's not even a simple majority at the moment. 66 people have voted, 33 say yes, 28 no, 5 Sam has the support of exactly 50% of those who have voted. AndyL 23:20, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Now it's 37-37-6 AndyL 13:04, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Not only do I strongly oppose this in principle, I specifically oppose it for Sam Spade. This is a BIG mistake. Rick K 22:13, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
Like Danny, I have resisted voting here. However, I am concerned that using this process would create stratification among administrators. As an admin under this procedure, if he becomes one, Sam would effectively be a second-class admin compared to all the other admins. He couldn't use any of his new abilities for fear of messing up during this probation period. And then afterwards, we still wouldn't have a better way than before of removing him, if he becomes the rogue admin his detractors fear.
Instead, I think we should consider an idea Danny once promoted, that all admins be on a trial basis on equal footing. The term would be longer, something like a year. This suggestion has come up again at Wikipedia talk:Administrator Activity Proposal#This doesn't seem to get at the heart of it - alternative proposal. This is currently how adminship is handled on Meta, for example. If something like this was in place, I think people would find it easier to treat adminship as "no big deal", and grant the privilege more liberally. -- Michael Snow 23:20, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Regarding Danny's proposal, while Danny is to be commended for coming up with a creative solution, I believe that a "trial period" would set poor precedent, because I believe that in a matter of months this would come to be required of nearly all prospective admins. I also believe that it would accomplish little in this case or any other.
uc 15:27, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
See User talk:Sam Spade#Adminship for his remarks on his nomination. Whosyourjudas (talk) 05:23, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
RfA is not a popularity contest. There's several people who I actually supported who I personally found to be a PITA.
As far as I can judge from personal experience (that's all I have, so there you go), Sam Spade has always behaved correctly and according to wikipolicy, even when others were misbehaving. He has done some controversial things, I'll grant, but always by the rules. If I've missed something, please enlighten me!
I think he'd use admin privileges in a similar by the rules fashion. I admit to being curious as to if, how and when Sam would use those priveleges most. Kim Bruning 10:45, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Comment from BCorr| Брайен: Regarding my "Oppose" vote above:
BCorr| Брайен 18:03, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I've never voted before for someone who's edits I've not personally encountered much, but I took the time to go through Sam's edit history, and it's very impressive. He takes on those articles that tend to be controversial, so it is no surprise that he gets involved with controversy, but there is plenty of evidence that he generally tries to work toward consensus. His numerous comments regarding the nature of adminship on WP lead me to believe that he would not abuse it, (and I like editors who provide very complete edit summeries :) Besides, like Orthogonal would no doubt point out, we have a well-known system for de-sysoping. ;-) func (talk) 18:29, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
That's problematic in itself, as is the fact that you waited until you thought you saw a majority in support before officially accepting the nomination. Exploding Boy 22:09, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
Typical. I think people would benefit from looking over your posts regarding the Gay bathhouse article; they're good examples of the reasons you wouldn't be suited for adminship. Exploding Boy 00:27, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)
While I do not wish to vote at this time, I would like to observe that adminship is not a gold star, and is granted based on the needs of the project rather than on the achievements and shortcomings of the candidate per se. Many votes and comments seem ill-considered to me because they do not focus upon whether the goals of the project would be furthered by his adminship. uc 15:27, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Heh, this RfA reads like a Who's who of Wikipedia. There seems to be a certain pattern emerging wrt the oppose voters. Gosh! Has anyone else noticed? Kim Bruning 23:15, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
What's a wikiwarrior? Exploding Boy 00:16, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
People who are um, strongly committed to keeping wikipedia tidy, and don't mind bending the rules a bit to do so I suppose. :-) I don't know if that's a good idea or a bad idea. Kim Bruning 00:30, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I take issue with this type of sweeping yet vague pronouncement. Who are these "frequent rule breakers" you speak of? Who are these admins, this so-called "in-crowd" who "are of the opinion that admins are above the rules"? Who are these users who "bully and malign" newbies? Who are these "well-liked longterm regulars who do as they please while the community looks the other way"? Sorry, but I think this is all a load of codswallop, as my grandmother used to say.
I've read a lot, over the last year, of complaints like these, but have yet to see any credible evidence that anything like this is really going on. I do know of a few users who are less than collegiate with other users, and a few people who like to grandstand and/or behave as though they own certain articles, but generally other users managage to keep them contained. I don't know of any admin who has gone on the type of rampage you suggest above, and frankly, I think this is just a lot of hot air designed to help you in your bid for sysopping. That's fair enough; you're allowed to campaign on your own behalf. But if you're going to slander 20-odd users (the ones who've voted against you) then you'd better be prepared to back up your wild claims with some hard evidence.
As to your candidacy, in my experience you have tended towards playing Devil's advocate a little too much, something I believe you've admitted to, seemingly with not a little pride. The rigidity of your personal beliefs has, on more than a few occasions, led to your vigourously pursuing a non-neutral point of view on certain topics, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that contradicts your sometimes offensive opinions. For these reasons, as well as those stated above, I remain opposed.
By the way, you do know what they say about those who play Devil's advocate? They become the Devil.
Exploding Boy 17:56, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
This is pretty much what I mean when I say that Sam is unable to accept crticism and is unable to be self-critical and makes it quite clear why he shouldn't be an admin. Perhaps when Sam grows up a bit and is less prone to rationalise away all and any critical comments he'll be able to be trusted with greater responsibility. Also, I think an admin should be something of a role model as an editor and someone who habitually misspells words like contraversial shows he doesn't put the needed care into this writing and editing. AndyL 21:11, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Sam needs 40 to 60 additional 'support' votes, to become an admin. I think the fact that so many of us with whom he tangled in the past are showing that we trust him now, is heartwarming and encouraging for him. Read the parables of the Lost Sheep and the Prodigal Son, in the Bible, and you'll understand this a little better. -- Uncle Ed 20:13, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I think Sam is thrilled at being the centre of attention. It's a shame he's not taking seriously the critical comments people are making AndyL 21:11, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
You're right. People should definitely have a look at the links you provide above. Frankly, I'm very surprised you posted them here; they're quite damning. Exploding Boy 17:01, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
Follow the link marked "evidence" in Sam's post, above. Exploding Boy 17:59, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
I think we need to treat this request just like an article dispute - work towards some agreement. -- Netoholic @ 18:23, 2004 Oct 8 (UTC)
Six months or so of generally good behaviour. Actually living up to the standards of civility he expects in others would be nice (eg not unilaterally imposing contraversial edits particularly when there is either a consensus against them or strong opposition to them on Talk pages, ending the habit of insulting people and perhaps actually taking criticisms seriously rather than dismissing them. Less partisanship, more even handedness in edits etc. Desisting from frivolous RfCs would be a start. AndyL 23:25, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
(deindenting) I don't see any current requests for desysopping from the arbitration comittee. I know you don't want to name any names, but i honestly don't know who you are talking about. Actually i think not naming names is the core of the problem. As far as I am aware, we do have methods for desysopping, but people are not prepared to actually use them. My standards for deopping are as follows. Admin has to break established rules for admin behaviour. i.e. innapropriatly deletion, blocking or protection. The action should be deliberate, I don't want people de-opped for making a mistake, The action should be repeated, I don't want people de-opped for isolated incidents. If I were to see someone (Sam or anyone) doing that I'd request arbitration. Theresa Knott (The torn steak) 16:46, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
See a critic's tracking of SamSpade's activities on Wikipedia at User:Spleeman/Sam Spade Vote "NO", or reverse your vote, even at this late hour. This is criticle (and critical) information! IZAK 09:16, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
See: User:Spleeman/Sam Spade#Political bias:
Yes, this has already been discussed, see above. Kim Bruning 13:14, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Theresa, this is a very serious matter, and alerting others concerned with the CREDIBILITY of Wikipedia to the existence of SamSpades/JackLynch/etc pro-Nazi statements and other activities as recorded by User:Spleeman/Sam Spade should not be deemed as "spamming", but it is rather a public service shedding some needed light on self-imposed darkness, even at the 11th hour. IZAK 21:42, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Sam's political views are irrelevant, except to the extent they may improve the diversity on the site. His objections to God not being capitalized and to "right wing" characterizations appear well founded, especially from a US perspective, where the right wing is more equivilent to "classical or constitutional liberalism", than to the totalilitarianism associated with the right and the left (sheesh, what a choice) in Europe. I've always advoated a left-right totalitarian-anarchy scale.
What I do see troublesome about Sam's contribution, is that they are often unsubstantitive wise cracks rather that comments which will further the discussion, I'd have to see the context however. Sometimes, such comments are to mimic or mock the lack of substance in an opposing post, by clever copying of the phrasiology. I would be inclined to switch to neutral on my vote, and investigate further, if this did not appear to be an underhanded late attack.-- Silverback 23:16, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Tactics used against Sam are dirty ad hominem, personal attacks and much worse. They remind me of my personal experience with the dreaded Securitate. As long as we live in a free world (don't we?) and freedom of speech is guaranteed (isn't it any more?), the attempt to criminalize thoughtful, deep expressions of one's opinions are themselves criminal. They will be legally prosecuted, as intellectual harassment, intimidation, smear and attempted libel. Wikipedia must remain free, and a sort of last rampart in the long fight against censorship. All legal means will be used, if ever again Sam is subject to spam, and smear campaigns, trust me! This quest for justice is far more important than a case study - even sf it looks so academically indigest. This is a matter of principle, since we're not into witch hunting. Frankly, I'm disgusted to see that in the "free" world things are actively continuing whatever I thought I left behind when I sneaked out of the realm of Stalinist dictatorship. Duh! Highly not recommended! - irismeister 17:15, 2004 Oct 11 (UTC)
I did. I always do. Please see Justice before I feel that urge to remind you too the absolute need for Justice! Especially in an increasingly disoriented society, with fake anchors, fake ideals and fake idols. Justice is never a threat, dummy! It's just that - Justice - jay, u, es, te, eye, see, eee flat - or we won't need it at all! If justice is a threat, we'll call war peace, idiots genii and yourself a white dove. Threaten me with your feelings of silencing me using a pack of dovish wolfs as you did in the past, and you know, in the same breath we'll call primesters by their name of pacifying nocular terrosts ! - irismeister 20:14, 2004 Oct 11 (UTC)
OK, Sam, count on me! Please forgive me for being late - I was enjoying a serial 24-hour bans and I didn't even know when I was not banned :O) - irismeister 20:31, 2004 Oct 11 (UTC)
"persistently eristic"... :) Martin 18:52, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I guess now that Sam is not up for an adminship he can feel safe reverting to form as a rude jerk. Oh well, I had hoped he was capable of change. AndyL 21:01, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Lucky for you, you posses the correct POV, so your rudeness wasn't enough to rule you out of adminship ;) [[User:Sam Spade| Sam Spade Arb Com election]] 21:44, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Rudeness will be enough to rule you out of being an arbitrator, though AndyL 01:03, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to drag up this on a talk page of a request over a month gone? What purpose is this serving for anyone? Shane King 01:07, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)
AndyL is a good editor, something I know because he has aggravated me enough in the past that I reviewed his edits, and found that when he's not trying to argue with / annoy me, he makes pretty good contributions. Unfortunately for the two of us, we run into each other quite a bit, and don't seem to get along well at all. I've suggested mediation in the past, and he's attempted arbitrating me in the past, but neither of us has thus far had any success. I suppose it will just have to sort itself out in time, since neither of us seems to be going anywhere. [[User:Sam Spade| Sam Spade Arb Com election]] 12:38, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Just *try* to live by the manners you suggest others follow and avoid being rude by telling people to bug off and the like. AndyL 12:41, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I do try. For example, I was going to say "bugger off, Andy", but I thought about how that would have been rude, so I decided on " bug" off, as in shooing an insect. It seemed to me to get the point across w/o being excessive (lot of good it did). Anyhow... isn't there an article you could be editing? [[User:Sam Spade| Sam Spade Arb Com election]] 13:19, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
You didn't need to say anything. Now you just need to apologise if you're sincere about being mannerly. BTW, "bug off" and "bugger off" mean the same thing. AndyL 15:43, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It looks like your right (I looked into it). I appologise, bug off is much ruder than I had intended to be. If I have something so horrible to say to you in the future, I'll send it by email ;) [[User:Sam Spade| Sam Spade Arb Com election]] 15:56, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Apology accepted. AndyL 17:18, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I'm ahead!
Sam [ Spade] 15:46, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
You don't get made an admin by simple majority. Rick K 19:39, Oct 9, 2004 (UTC)
And it's not even a simple majority at the moment. 66 people have voted, 33 say yes, 28 no, 5 Sam has the support of exactly 50% of those who have voted. AndyL 23:20, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Now it's 37-37-6 AndyL 13:04, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Not only do I strongly oppose this in principle, I specifically oppose it for Sam Spade. This is a BIG mistake. Rick K 22:13, Oct 6, 2004 (UTC)
Like Danny, I have resisted voting here. However, I am concerned that using this process would create stratification among administrators. As an admin under this procedure, if he becomes one, Sam would effectively be a second-class admin compared to all the other admins. He couldn't use any of his new abilities for fear of messing up during this probation period. And then afterwards, we still wouldn't have a better way than before of removing him, if he becomes the rogue admin his detractors fear.
Instead, I think we should consider an idea Danny once promoted, that all admins be on a trial basis on equal footing. The term would be longer, something like a year. This suggestion has come up again at Wikipedia talk:Administrator Activity Proposal#This doesn't seem to get at the heart of it - alternative proposal. This is currently how adminship is handled on Meta, for example. If something like this was in place, I think people would find it easier to treat adminship as "no big deal", and grant the privilege more liberally. -- Michael Snow 23:20, 5 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Regarding Danny's proposal, while Danny is to be commended for coming up with a creative solution, I believe that a "trial period" would set poor precedent, because I believe that in a matter of months this would come to be required of nearly all prospective admins. I also believe that it would accomplish little in this case or any other.
uc 15:27, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
See User talk:Sam Spade#Adminship for his remarks on his nomination. Whosyourjudas (talk) 05:23, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
RfA is not a popularity contest. There's several people who I actually supported who I personally found to be a PITA.
As far as I can judge from personal experience (that's all I have, so there you go), Sam Spade has always behaved correctly and according to wikipolicy, even when others were misbehaving. He has done some controversial things, I'll grant, but always by the rules. If I've missed something, please enlighten me!
I think he'd use admin privileges in a similar by the rules fashion. I admit to being curious as to if, how and when Sam would use those priveleges most. Kim Bruning 10:45, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Comment from BCorr| Брайен: Regarding my "Oppose" vote above:
BCorr| Брайен 18:03, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I've never voted before for someone who's edits I've not personally encountered much, but I took the time to go through Sam's edit history, and it's very impressive. He takes on those articles that tend to be controversial, so it is no surprise that he gets involved with controversy, but there is plenty of evidence that he generally tries to work toward consensus. His numerous comments regarding the nature of adminship on WP lead me to believe that he would not abuse it, (and I like editors who provide very complete edit summeries :) Besides, like Orthogonal would no doubt point out, we have a well-known system for de-sysoping. ;-) func (talk) 18:29, 4 Oct 2004 (UTC)
That's problematic in itself, as is the fact that you waited until you thought you saw a majority in support before officially accepting the nomination. Exploding Boy 22:09, Oct 4, 2004 (UTC)
Typical. I think people would benefit from looking over your posts regarding the Gay bathhouse article; they're good examples of the reasons you wouldn't be suited for adminship. Exploding Boy 00:27, Oct 5, 2004 (UTC)
While I do not wish to vote at this time, I would like to observe that adminship is not a gold star, and is granted based on the needs of the project rather than on the achievements and shortcomings of the candidate per se. Many votes and comments seem ill-considered to me because they do not focus upon whether the goals of the project would be furthered by his adminship. uc 15:27, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Heh, this RfA reads like a Who's who of Wikipedia. There seems to be a certain pattern emerging wrt the oppose voters. Gosh! Has anyone else noticed? Kim Bruning 23:15, 6 Oct 2004 (UTC)
What's a wikiwarrior? Exploding Boy 00:16, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
People who are um, strongly committed to keeping wikipedia tidy, and don't mind bending the rules a bit to do so I suppose. :-) I don't know if that's a good idea or a bad idea. Kim Bruning 00:30, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I take issue with this type of sweeping yet vague pronouncement. Who are these "frequent rule breakers" you speak of? Who are these admins, this so-called "in-crowd" who "are of the opinion that admins are above the rules"? Who are these users who "bully and malign" newbies? Who are these "well-liked longterm regulars who do as they please while the community looks the other way"? Sorry, but I think this is all a load of codswallop, as my grandmother used to say.
I've read a lot, over the last year, of complaints like these, but have yet to see any credible evidence that anything like this is really going on. I do know of a few users who are less than collegiate with other users, and a few people who like to grandstand and/or behave as though they own certain articles, but generally other users managage to keep them contained. I don't know of any admin who has gone on the type of rampage you suggest above, and frankly, I think this is just a lot of hot air designed to help you in your bid for sysopping. That's fair enough; you're allowed to campaign on your own behalf. But if you're going to slander 20-odd users (the ones who've voted against you) then you'd better be prepared to back up your wild claims with some hard evidence.
As to your candidacy, in my experience you have tended towards playing Devil's advocate a little too much, something I believe you've admitted to, seemingly with not a little pride. The rigidity of your personal beliefs has, on more than a few occasions, led to your vigourously pursuing a non-neutral point of view on certain topics, even in the face of overwhelming evidence that contradicts your sometimes offensive opinions. For these reasons, as well as those stated above, I remain opposed.
By the way, you do know what they say about those who play Devil's advocate? They become the Devil.
Exploding Boy 17:56, Oct 7, 2004 (UTC)
This is pretty much what I mean when I say that Sam is unable to accept crticism and is unable to be self-critical and makes it quite clear why he shouldn't be an admin. Perhaps when Sam grows up a bit and is less prone to rationalise away all and any critical comments he'll be able to be trusted with greater responsibility. Also, I think an admin should be something of a role model as an editor and someone who habitually misspells words like contraversial shows he doesn't put the needed care into this writing and editing. AndyL 21:11, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Sam needs 40 to 60 additional 'support' votes, to become an admin. I think the fact that so many of us with whom he tangled in the past are showing that we trust him now, is heartwarming and encouraging for him. Read the parables of the Lost Sheep and the Prodigal Son, in the Bible, and you'll understand this a little better. -- Uncle Ed 20:13, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
I think Sam is thrilled at being the centre of attention. It's a shame he's not taking seriously the critical comments people are making AndyL 21:11, 7 Oct 2004 (UTC)
You're right. People should definitely have a look at the links you provide above. Frankly, I'm very surprised you posted them here; they're quite damning. Exploding Boy 17:01, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
Follow the link marked "evidence" in Sam's post, above. Exploding Boy 17:59, Oct 8, 2004 (UTC)
I think we need to treat this request just like an article dispute - work towards some agreement. -- Netoholic @ 18:23, 2004 Oct 8 (UTC)
Six months or so of generally good behaviour. Actually living up to the standards of civility he expects in others would be nice (eg not unilaterally imposing contraversial edits particularly when there is either a consensus against them or strong opposition to them on Talk pages, ending the habit of insulting people and perhaps actually taking criticisms seriously rather than dismissing them. Less partisanship, more even handedness in edits etc. Desisting from frivolous RfCs would be a start. AndyL 23:25, 9 Oct 2004 (UTC)
(deindenting) I don't see any current requests for desysopping from the arbitration comittee. I know you don't want to name any names, but i honestly don't know who you are talking about. Actually i think not naming names is the core of the problem. As far as I am aware, we do have methods for desysopping, but people are not prepared to actually use them. My standards for deopping are as follows. Admin has to break established rules for admin behaviour. i.e. innapropriatly deletion, blocking or protection. The action should be deliberate, I don't want people de-opped for making a mistake, The action should be repeated, I don't want people de-opped for isolated incidents. If I were to see someone (Sam or anyone) doing that I'd request arbitration. Theresa Knott (The torn steak) 16:46, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
See a critic's tracking of SamSpade's activities on Wikipedia at User:Spleeman/Sam Spade Vote "NO", or reverse your vote, even at this late hour. This is criticle (and critical) information! IZAK 09:16, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
See: User:Spleeman/Sam Spade#Political bias:
Yes, this has already been discussed, see above. Kim Bruning 13:14, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Theresa, this is a very serious matter, and alerting others concerned with the CREDIBILITY of Wikipedia to the existence of SamSpades/JackLynch/etc pro-Nazi statements and other activities as recorded by User:Spleeman/Sam Spade should not be deemed as "spamming", but it is rather a public service shedding some needed light on self-imposed darkness, even at the 11th hour. IZAK 21:42, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Sam's political views are irrelevant, except to the extent they may improve the diversity on the site. His objections to God not being capitalized and to "right wing" characterizations appear well founded, especially from a US perspective, where the right wing is more equivilent to "classical or constitutional liberalism", than to the totalilitarianism associated with the right and the left (sheesh, what a choice) in Europe. I've always advoated a left-right totalitarian-anarchy scale.
What I do see troublesome about Sam's contribution, is that they are often unsubstantitive wise cracks rather that comments which will further the discussion, I'd have to see the context however. Sometimes, such comments are to mimic or mock the lack of substance in an opposing post, by clever copying of the phrasiology. I would be inclined to switch to neutral on my vote, and investigate further, if this did not appear to be an underhanded late attack.-- Silverback 23:16, 10 Oct 2004 (UTC)
Tactics used against Sam are dirty ad hominem, personal attacks and much worse. They remind me of my personal experience with the dreaded Securitate. As long as we live in a free world (don't we?) and freedom of speech is guaranteed (isn't it any more?), the attempt to criminalize thoughtful, deep expressions of one's opinions are themselves criminal. They will be legally prosecuted, as intellectual harassment, intimidation, smear and attempted libel. Wikipedia must remain free, and a sort of last rampart in the long fight against censorship. All legal means will be used, if ever again Sam is subject to spam, and smear campaigns, trust me! This quest for justice is far more important than a case study - even sf it looks so academically indigest. This is a matter of principle, since we're not into witch hunting. Frankly, I'm disgusted to see that in the "free" world things are actively continuing whatever I thought I left behind when I sneaked out of the realm of Stalinist dictatorship. Duh! Highly not recommended! - irismeister 17:15, 2004 Oct 11 (UTC)
I did. I always do. Please see Justice before I feel that urge to remind you too the absolute need for Justice! Especially in an increasingly disoriented society, with fake anchors, fake ideals and fake idols. Justice is never a threat, dummy! It's just that - Justice - jay, u, es, te, eye, see, eee flat - or we won't need it at all! If justice is a threat, we'll call war peace, idiots genii and yourself a white dove. Threaten me with your feelings of silencing me using a pack of dovish wolfs as you did in the past, and you know, in the same breath we'll call primesters by their name of pacifying nocular terrosts ! - irismeister 20:14, 2004 Oct 11 (UTC)
OK, Sam, count on me! Please forgive me for being late - I was enjoying a serial 24-hour bans and I didn't even know when I was not banned :O) - irismeister 20:31, 2004 Oct 11 (UTC)
"persistently eristic"... :) Martin 18:52, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I guess now that Sam is not up for an adminship he can feel safe reverting to form as a rude jerk. Oh well, I had hoped he was capable of change. AndyL 21:01, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Lucky for you, you posses the correct POV, so your rudeness wasn't enough to rule you out of adminship ;) [[User:Sam Spade| Sam Spade Arb Com election]] 21:44, 21 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Rudeness will be enough to rule you out of being an arbitrator, though AndyL 01:03, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Is it really necessary to drag up this on a talk page of a request over a month gone? What purpose is this serving for anyone? Shane King 01:07, Nov 22, 2004 (UTC)
AndyL is a good editor, something I know because he has aggravated me enough in the past that I reviewed his edits, and found that when he's not trying to argue with / annoy me, he makes pretty good contributions. Unfortunately for the two of us, we run into each other quite a bit, and don't seem to get along well at all. I've suggested mediation in the past, and he's attempted arbitrating me in the past, but neither of us has thus far had any success. I suppose it will just have to sort itself out in time, since neither of us seems to be going anywhere. [[User:Sam Spade| Sam Spade Arb Com election]] 12:38, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Just *try* to live by the manners you suggest others follow and avoid being rude by telling people to bug off and the like. AndyL 12:41, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
I do try. For example, I was going to say "bugger off, Andy", but I thought about how that would have been rude, so I decided on " bug" off, as in shooing an insect. It seemed to me to get the point across w/o being excessive (lot of good it did). Anyhow... isn't there an article you could be editing? [[User:Sam Spade| Sam Spade Arb Com election]] 13:19, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
You didn't need to say anything. Now you just need to apologise if you're sincere about being mannerly. BTW, "bug off" and "bugger off" mean the same thing. AndyL 15:43, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
It looks like your right (I looked into it). I appologise, bug off is much ruder than I had intended to be. If I have something so horrible to say to you in the future, I'll send it by email ;) [[User:Sam Spade| Sam Spade Arb Com election]] 15:56, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)
Apology accepted. AndyL 17:18, 22 Nov 2004 (UTC)