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am i right in think this link: [1] is a bad source for German charts? Also is the Deutsche Black Charts a valid german chart? Lil-unique1 ( talk) 23:37, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Media Control is the Official German Chart. Every weekly chart (sales or/and airplay) compiled by them on Germany would be valid, but on the official website of the Deutsche Black Chart is not written that's compiled by Media Control. SJ ( talk) 03:42, 4 April 2010 (UTC+1)
The Official Chart Company's website now has complete archives up to position 75 for the main singles and albums charts. Available here. -- JD554 ( talk) 14:02, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Looks pretty good in terms of timeframe. http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/rolling%20stones/ goes back to 1963, which is a lot better than most of these online archives. I'll get UK and UKocc added to {{ singlechart}} added today.— Kww( talk) 15:38, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for finding this. It looks pretty comprehensive. Maybe we should add it to record charts. e.g.:
this would encourage people to use the source more often? Lil-unique1 ( talk) 15:44, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Truly nasty, unpleasant technical glitch. They don't support the standard escaping for spaces in the URL, meaning that a standard URL such as http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/Cheryl+Cole won't parse. They want a space, which means that a URL like [http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/Cheryl Cole Cheryl Cole's page on Official charts]<nowiki> formats as link to <nowiki>"http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/Cheryl", not http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/Cheryl Cole". Searching for a way that we can work around this, but let's not go crazy including this archive until we can figure out how to do it right.— Kww( talk) 20:44, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
update:To add links today, use %20 for space, as in http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/Bonzo%20Dog%20Doo-dah%20Band. There's a bug fix coming, and I'm going to wait to put it into singlechart until things are stable.
I have gone ahead and added the UK R&B chart, because there is a pressing need to get those articles correctly sourced. It uses UKrandb as the chart name, and requires a date, as in:
I have now added the UK Independent Singles Chart (UKindie) and Scotland (Scotland). I agree that Scotland should be treated as a component chart of the UK singles chart.— Kww( talk) 05:08, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Top100 has returned for both singles and albums Regards, SunCreator ( talk) 14:48, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
for the past couple of days, I've been having problems concerning the situation involving the Between The Lines wiki page. What I find redundant is the fact that the Alternative Songs is removed from the page because of the idea that the chart itself is a component to another. I think it's a bad thing to do. Look at every rock song's wiki page. They all have the three Billboard rock charts. The reason the Alternative Songs chart got removed from the Between The Lines is because it peaked higher in the Rock Songs chart. I know a few songs that peaked higher in Rock Songs than in Alternative (examples: The Good Life by Three Days Grace, Your Decision by Alice in Chains) and I never once saw the Alternative Songs chart removed from those pages. And that's why I'm requesting for the Alternative Songs chart to be shown again on the Between The Lines song's wiki page so that I don't have to be blocked for a extended period of time. David1287 ( talk) 01:04, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
just to inform you that WP:USCHARTS is moving from a draft to guidelines. Billboard says: "Hot Alternative Songs the most popular alternative/modern rock songs, ranked by airplay detections as measured by Nielsen BDS." The of Rock Songs it says "the popular alternative, mainstream rock and triple A songs, ranked by radio airplay audience impressions across those genres measured by Nielson BDS". That undoubtedly makes Alternative Songs a component of Rock Songs. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 12:44, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes. Billboard has itself clarified that. And it is at WP:USCHARTS which althogh i accept is labelled as a proposal will be promoted to guidelines soon. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 21:20, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Ok two questions.
Thank you Kww. Very helpful, thats gr8. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 00:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
Another question though: is the Dutch Tipparade different to the Single Top 100? Its use on Gypsy (Shakira song) has baffled me. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 01:24, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
Top 40 is the official chart in Netherlands. In this site there is also an archive. http://www.top40.nl/ SJ( talk) 13:12, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi all. It has come to my attention that some editors are still confused about the usuage of component charts in particula: Billboard component charts. To conclude the work being done to WP:USCHARTS i would like to pose the following:
Please can you give your opinion, each time referring to proposal 1, proposal 2 or proposal 3 so that we can clearly see what the consensus is. Thanks. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 21:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
In response to Kww: Actually WP:USCHARTS is currently listed as a proposal so it had yet to reach guideline/policy status. I've spoken to JubileePoliceMan who is currently auditing the music part of WP:MoS and we've come to agreement that the information could be rationalized into WP:record charts under a US Singles Charts Heading. In response to all other comments... Billboard is only the chart provider and since we do not use this for other charts i see no point to do so for billboard. The Hot 100 is the only exception because it is the only chart which actually has it in its name. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 23:15, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
No thats the point. Im glad i opened the discussion because you've pointed out that there is a valid reason as to why Pop Songs can be used but other airplay charts not used. I was in no way trying to re-define a component chart. Rather the opposite... based on the information we have i was trying to draw the clearest conclusion possible. Im trying to iron out the glitches before the info is rationalised to record charts. There is some more work to be done on the digital charts bit. but the main bit at USCHARTS aparts to be ok. what do you think? Lil-unique1 ( talk) 00:04, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
If song hasn't charted on ultratop 40/50 that then is added position of song on belgium tip parade. my suggestion is that if song has charted on tipparade we add, for flandres 50+tipparade position, and for wallonia 40+tipparade position. example: song has charted on #7 on both flandres and wallonia.
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Wikipedia_talk:Record_charts/Billboard_charts_guide#Rhythmic_Top_40_2 Thanks! Candyo32 ( talk) 01:44, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Please participate in /Billboard charts guide#Time to move forward and formally propose this page as a Guideline?. The questions raised there go beyond the future of that subpage. I have suggested that this main MOS be split into two pages: MOS and Content. Thank you -- Jubilee ♫ clipman 13:29, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing discussion about the future of this and others MoS naming style. Please consider the issues raised in the discussion and vote if you wish GnevinAWB ( talk) 21:00, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
I know Rolling Stone is a reliable source for charts and discographies of musical artists but is the website working? I am facing issues while trying to access it. --Legolas (talk2me) 06:37, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Bump - any thoughts on how to sort this out? -- Jubilee ♫ clipman 17:17, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Today i came across a strange occurance whilst editing. I've noticed the use of tophit.ru to source russian airplay. I've usually left it in or left it down to other editors to use their discretion as to whether it should be used or not. However for the song "I Got You" by Leona Lewis i found the following:
Based on that are we to say this chart has an acceptable methidology? i've seen it appear quite a lot in articles so if we decide its methidology is dubious it should be added to Badcharts. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 06:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
It is proposed that Wikipedia:Record charts/Billboard charts guide be merged into WP:record charts. Please comment over at the RfC merge proposal. Thanks -- Jubilee ♫ clipman 01:12, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Hello, I'm opening a discussion about the refinement and clarification of notability criteria. your opinion here would be appreciated. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 00:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
From Polish Music Charts:
Official Polish Airplay Chart is provided by Nielsen Music Control Airplay Services. The Top 5 spots of the airplay charts is published at the official Nielsen Music site every week.
Since 2010 ZPAV publish extended version of Polish Airplay at the official ZPAV site:
http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/nielsen/index.php
Please, add polish airplay or polish TOP5 Video here. MecenasMuzyczny ( talk) 09:41, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Is it back in action ? its on billboard.biz having songs charting now. Candyo32 ( talk) 14:35, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Someone explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old, because I simply don't get it. I'm trying to determine what the correct certification for Achtung Baby is, but SNEP seems to be confusing me. In 1995, the album was certified double platinum, but a year later, it was certified platinum.
According to the SNEP website, they currently certify like this:
Well, from reading the SNEP Wikipedia article, it seems as if they have re-done their certifications several times. In 1995-1996, this is what the certifications would have been like:
Does this mean that the album was certified for 900,000 copies in 1996? Or was the platinum certification in 1996 not an additional certification, but one that was retroactive to the album's release? Y2kcrazyjoker4 ( talk) 20:28, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Looks to me like the 1996 chart is listing a platinum received in 1991, while the 1995 chart is showing a double platinum received in 1995. I'd go with the 1995 listing.— Kww( talk) 20:49, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
It has been proposed this MOS be moved to Wikipedia:Subject style guide . Please comment at the RFC GnevinAWB ( talk) 20:54, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
We need to discuss on the Scottish Charts available at TOCC website. --Legolas (talk2me) 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
We also need to move the archives to the new name, else they would be lost. --Legolas (talk2me) 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
It should really be on this page but ... somehow a discussion about the danish single charts got underway at Talk:Fascination (Alphabeat song). - Meewam ( talk) 13:28, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Singlechart got vandalized today to simply output an obscenity. If you see charts that are expanding that way, purge the article. There's a new button on the new skin (which I don't use). The reliable way is to add &action=purge to the URL and load up, i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Boys_%28Alexandra_Burke_song%29&action=purge . That will forcibly update the article to the latest, unvandalized version of the template. I've semiprotected the template to try to reduce the probability of a reoccurence.
— Kww( talk) 16:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Is the "Polish National Top 50" chart the same as the chart "Poland Albums Top 50"? Polish National Top 50 is listed as a band chart which is supposed to be found at ACharts, but I can only find Poland Albums Top 50 here. Sorafune +1 18:31, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
I was wondering if the daily and monthly charts should be included in the articles for Japanese releases? The reason I ask is because unlike the weekly chart when the day and month changes, the previous day or month for that chart is no longer accessible. I mean it will be accessible if someone archives the charts during that certain day or month, but most people that edit those articles do not do so. So should they be excluded from the article? MS (Talk| Contributions) 22:32, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
When does a new month's Brazilian chart debut? I have only been peripherally following this issue, but my understanding was that, while there was no chart archive, a current chart could be found online. Yet upon a claim at I Want To Know What Love Is that Mariah Carey's version had charted at #1 there for five months, which they parenthetically claimed was 19 weeks, I scratched my head (as November through February is actually more like 13 weeks) and checked Wiki's Brasil Hot 100 Airplay article. There I found no March data, despite its being March 11. I then visited the link at Billboard Brasil, http://billboard.br.com/rankings#brasil-hot-100-airplay (because there is no reference for the material at Brasil Hot 100 Airplay), and found no current data for Brazil's charts, only a link to the U.S. charts for the week ending March 13.
Is it common for there to be a lag time between when the prior chart is removed from the site and the next one posted? (Why on earth would that be so? The only reason I can think of is that they are indicating that the chart is not meant to represent a whole month, but merely a representative week of that month?) Perhaps I'm checking during the couple of minutes the page is being reconfigured for the new month? Have the Brazilian charts been discontinued after a mere five? I'd be interested to know if anybody has any insight on this.
On a related issue, there is List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2009 (Brazil) and a List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2010 (Brazil). The inaugural chart was in October 2009 and it is a monthly chart, meaning that there are only 3 charts that year and only 12 charts in any year. The first #1 ran for two charts and the second #1 for three (albeit spanning two years), so the first list consists of two singles.
Additionally, there is a List of number-one pop hits of 2009 (Brazil) which happens to be the same as List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2009 (Brazil) (ditto for 2010). And then of course there is the domestic chart, List of number-one popular hits of 2009 (Brazil), which is a lone Brazilian artist for 2009 and another for 2010 to date. I note that List of French number-one hits of 2009 — which is a weekly chart — is split into physical singles and digital singles. The French list then adds the same data for albums as well as a top 10 of the year in both sales categories for both singles and albums.
Considering that there are only four singles represented across these six Brazilian articles covering five months' worth of three charts, doesn't it make sense to combine the scant data in a similar manner that we combine the more frequently updated data at the French article? Thanks, Abrazame ( talk) 07:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
A few points to address in this discussion. First, Jayy008 is correct that Crowley compiles the chart, and Crowley has compiled Brazilian airplay charts for a long time. However, (and this is a big "however"), they did not publish a national airplay chart, only regional ones. Thus, there is no history before the publication of the first Billboard Brasil to make a valid comparison to.
Second, the Billboard Brasil website is a shambles. No archiving, days where all the charts disappear, links to US charts appearing in inappropriate places. The website cannot be used as a source, only the magazine.
Third, as for articles that reproduce lists of number ones or otherwise reproduce chart data from proprietary sources, I maintain that they should all be deleted as copyright violations. Discussions of folding them or how to format them are moot: if the purpose they serve is to reiterate a chart, they shouldn't exist.— Kww( talk) 14:37, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, Kww, for clearing that up. But my issues remain unresponded to, which is even more troubling a week after I first noted them. Not unlike Legolas' comment in the Argentina thread below about CAPIF, I am unclear on the purpose of mentioning or linking http://www.crowley.com.br/arquivos_comuns/about_crowley.asp in this thread. Is the current national airplay chart posted somewhere at the Crowley site? Is there a searchable database there? If so, can we post a site map on how to get there for English language users? I'm troubled that we're 18 days into the month and a chart that by the explanation above was supposed to have been available two and a half weeks ago is still not cited in the articles I mention above. The Billboard.br link I pasted above from one of our article cites is still blank. This does not seem to be the way a major operation like Billboard handles data they find encyclopedic and worthy, and presenting as our most recent data in the second half of March material from a February chart that, as Jayy008 notes, actually represented airplay in the month of January, raises some red flags to me on how seriously we should take this as a reliable chart.
To Jayy008, you say that the song has been number one in February and March: where have you gotten that information? Again, this is about the chart, not about the song, but of course the purpose of the chart is to make claims about songs, and it perplexes me how you and others are doing that.
I thank you, too, Kww, for your response about the Brazilian albums chart in the thread below. Abrazame ( talk) 11:29, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I saw Kww's notice at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Brazil, and yes, I confirm the magazine is still on the stands. Unfortunately, they cost quite too much for me to keep them at home only to serve as physical references, although I sometimes check them to find out information on singles I might want to work on. Victão Lopes I hear you... 02:42, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
So ten days later, now in the second week of the following month, and still nothing at Billboard.br. Any effort currently being made by Brazilian editors? (Are there any Brazilian Wikipedians interested in contemporary music other than Victao? One guy who "sometimes checks" the newsstands is not enough for us to maintain coverage, and if Billboard isn't making it available online, they clearly don't wish there to be widespread notice taken.) Any objection to my opening an AfD on our lists? Abrazame ( talk) 07:09, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Is this now a suitable interim solution? it appears to be the official publication by Crawley Broadcast Systems who are responsible for Brazilian charts. I think it would need manual archiving with WEBCITE or something similar though. [4] Lil-unique1 ( talk) 00:30, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes, Decodet, thank you; more than two months since I began the thread and three weeks since your purchase, I'll summarize the points repeatedly made above that the help required is for you to log in to your account and properly cite that magazine issue as reference for whichever months' positions it confirms in the chart lists. This will prevent the lists from being tagged for wholesale deletion as being completely unreferenced, insofar as there is apparently no other accessible source anyone is willing or able to cite there. Abrazame ( talk) 12:19, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
The UK Singles Chart article suggests that the UK Singles Chart is a 200 positions chart (not citing any references), but the Single Charts page at the theofficialcharts.com shows only 100 positions (and the page title is "Singles Top 40"?). A user reverted my edit to the Alphabeat discography article and posted a comment on my talk page. Am I missing something here? - Meewam ( talk) 22:28, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
The following charts should be removed from the table of those that can be used when a song has charted on the Hot 100:
Per these charts' pages on Billboard.com, they only track radio airplay and are thus components of the Radio Songs chart, which itself is a component of the Hot 100. The only genre chart that also tracks sales, according to the Billboard website, is the Hot R&B/Hip Hop Songs chart. Including a bunch of spin-offs of the radio chart for songs that have already charted on the main chart, the Hot 100, is unnecessary and will only drag the chart table out longer than it needs to be. – Chase ( talk) 01:12, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
It is more complicated as some of the charts track more than one form of airplay. e.g. Rap Songs consists of Mainstream R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay and Rhythmic Airply
Rock Songs is made of: mainstream rock airplay, triple a airplay and alternative airplay.
The problem with this issue is that you can become very nitty gritty. for example per your comments we should disallow Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs because that charts consists of R&B/Hip-Hop Sales (which itself is a component of Hot 100 Sales) and R&B Hip/Hop Airplay (which is a component of Hot 100 Airplay). The key factor here is that essentially all genre charts can in someway be described as a component of the main single's chart. Hope that helps, Regards. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 16:46, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/Charts/DIGITAL.html I've seen this mentioned as a "component chart" of the Canadian Hot 100, but the case of the Canadian download chart is different from that of the US Digital Songs Chart. From ~2005 until Billboard unveiled their own Canadian chart, the top 10 of the download chart was published in the international section of the Billboard magazine as the chart of Canada - naturally they would replace this with their own chart when they created it much like I'm sure they replaced Japan's Oricon Charts as the "official" chart when they created the Japan Hot 100. This chart existed PRIOR to the creation of the Hot 100. It is still published by one of Canada's largest internet resources - Canoe - in the National Charts section of the entertainment site - Jam!. Now, the chart was official for Billboard for 2 years, so I fail to see how, just because Billboard decided to utilise the data used to compile this chart, it has suddenly became a component chart. This is to say that if Billboard decided to make a chart in France based off numbers used by the SNEP Download Chart and airplay data, the SNEP chart would become a component chart as well. I think that the Download Chart should be allowed to be listed in chart boxes as a standalone chart, seeing as it exists as a standalone chart on a major (and native Canadian, may I add) internet publication. At the very least I think that number ones should be kept track of in an article - perhaps similar to this page (UK Download Chart) or how number ones on the Digital Songs chart are kept track of, and in the event that a song reaches a significant position on the Download Chart (i.e. Top 10 or Number 1) but not on the Billboard chart it should be mentioned in the "Chart Performance" paragraph of a song's article. Chele9211 ( talk) 20:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry to raise this topic again when it seems to have come up frequently before, but (1) I've just come upon my first occasion to care about Polish charts, and (2) I'm confused about a few things.
First of all, I don't mean to be talking about the Polish National Top 50, which from my research appears to have been much discussed and much deleted. My direct concern is something called the Polish Airplay Chart.
I spent the afternoon working over Oceana (well, I enjoyed it), and I tried to rehabilitate the peak positions shown for her singles in Poland. (I feel comfortable about the albums chart, which Polish Music Charts clearly says is official, with agreement at WP:GOODCHARTS, and good availability at OLiS.) The existing ref for Oceana's Polish singles was to http://www.charly1300.com/polskaairplay.htm, which includes a bunch of archives, each labelled "POLSKA AIRPLAY TOP 100" from some week.
I'm not sure I should be using these, though. For one thing, the Web site
http://www.charly1300.com/ looks a lot like Some Guy's Site (the archived charts mention "This Polska Airplay Top 100 is compiled by Charles Pons"). It's actually a nice-looking site, but I can't tell where he's getting his data, or there'll just all unlicensed copies. Secondly,
WP:GOODCHARTS doesn't point anywhere near there.Well, unless you count the big link in the fifth column, there. –JFP, 04:32, 20 June 2010 (UTC) Thirdly, it's not clear from
Polish Music Charts that there are any official singles chart, although I believe there must be (I'm picturing more than 5 songs a week, though). And lastly, I found
this recent discussion from May, which talks about a "Polish Airplay TOP 5" being published by ZPAV. There are currently 10 of these archived charts spanning the ages all the way back to March (that's 50 - FIFTY! - songs, folks) and I gather that they are all very official, although they haven't made it into
WP:GOODCHARTS yet.
Do I understand correctly that the five ZPAV archives mentioned in that archived Discussion are the only Polish single charts we want to use? That the charly1300.com is definitely not to be used? Shall I delete the Polish column from the Singles table at Oceana? — JohnFromPinckney ( talk) 23:20, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
What would be the best method to handle double-sided hits? For instance, a look at Razzy Bailey's discography shows that he had a few songs where both the A-side and B-side went to #1 — namely, "I Keep Coming Back"/"True Life Country Music" and "Friends"/"Anywhere There's a Jukebox." I spoke to Razzy about this last week and he said it means that stations were playing both sides, but it was treated as one single on the charts. What's the best way to list these, both in the single articles and discography? Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ( Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 15:39, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Well the usual thing to do is if a single (containing two songs e.g. a double A-side like Leona Lewis "Better in Time" / Footprints in the Sand") is released in the discography both songs should appear as in the first example. However if only one of the songs was the a-side hence the other being the b-side then only the a-side appears.
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In the second example, "A Moment Like This" is the A-side (the actual song released) and so only it appears in the discography. However if its b-side (a cover of "Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word") had charted then that should appear on "A Moment Like This"'s page. Normally b-side songs should not be given their own page unless they meet WP:NSONGS criteria per usual. They certainly should not be treated as seperate releases from their respective a-side singles. Regards, Lil-unique1 ( talk) 15:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
I think this is a more interesting and nuanced and not easily pinned-down issue than the responses belie.
Firstly, the OP asked a question specifically about B-side chartings, and the answer given related to Double A-sides that could not have charted independently versus B-sides that did not chart, which is not in any manner an answer to the question.
Wikipedia apparently has a policy wherein we ostensibly write articles not about singles but about songs. This means that if artist X writes a song that is released as a single, and artist Y covers that song and releases it as a single, then artist Y's cover is addressed in the article about artist X's song. There are any number of good arguments against this approach, but if this is Wikipedia's approach, we can accept that. As we accept that, we have to then recognize that a different song that charts for an artist—which as a charting song would have been notable enough to deserve its own article if the A-side of the single it was on did not exist—that different song warrants its own different article.
This issue is complicated by the fact that there are music markets and music charts where the chart methodology is only one factor of that single's success (only sales, or only airplay). By using the UK chartings of Leona Lewis as your example, you're choosing a chart that is a sales-only chart, where obviously there's no measure of the relative success of any individual song on that single, and inherently a B-side cannot chart on a sales-only chart. It is the whole product that charts in a sales-only chart, and the whole product of an A- and B-sided single is known by the A-side's title. If it is a double-A-side single, there is no B-side (three-plus-track singles notwithstanding), and of course both A-sides require mention in the title because that is the way it was marketed, equal prominence on the same product, regardless of whether one part of that marketing spurred more sales than the other. (In this sales-only example, the bottom line in a chart table is the whole product, and the whole product has two names, both A-sides'.) Conversely, when a chart is a radio-only chart, then a B-side (or the "other" A-side) only receives airplay and only bears qualifying in a charting-oriented discography table when the powers that be at radio stations decide to play it. (In this airplay-only example, the programmers may choose to ignore the marketing, and the bottom line in a charting-oriented discography table isn't what the product was named but which song earned that airplay.)
If radio decides to play a record's B-side (which is a different situation than a single that is marketed as a double A-side whether the public receives it as such or not), that is the B-side of the same single—and would justifiably be handled in an article about that single if articles about singles are what we published here at Wikipedia—but it is also a different song, and given that articles are not about singles, and instead about songs, it is justifiable to handle in a different article about that different song. You can argue all you want that a radio programmer only played the B-side because nothing else was available and there was a demand for more material by the hit artist, but then quite often an artist's major hit, in incredible demand, is followed up by a single absolutely rejected by radio and/or listeners, for whatever reasons not the least of which is that they'd still prefer to hear the prior hit.
The responses bespeak another misunderstanding, and it's probably the result of a combination of ethnocentrism and recentism endemic to this page, given that the examples cited are all Leona Lewis UK chartings. In a chart whose methodology is or includes radio airplay, the airplay for a B-side is not necessarily going to be equal to the airplay to that record's A-side, nor is it necessarily going to have the same chart trajectory. In other words, the two songs may both be played immediately upon release, or the A-side may peak before the B-side is turned to, no pun intended, or the B-side may actually be preferred by radio, and it's the B-side that actually gets initial or higher or even the only airplay points and thus a higher chart peak.
Further to the recentism angle, with points we have another problem: isolate a single country, say the U.S. instead of the UK as the U.S. has a more comprehensive methodology, and isolate a single source, say Billboard as it's currently the unrivaled chart company here, and isolate a single chart, say the Hot Country charts, as it was actually the chart relevant to the artist the OP was asking about, and you still have a highly complex manner of determining charting, one that has changed over the years, sometimes fairly arbitrary and sometimes highly technical, but which nevertheless we should consider, how the chart compiler handles the facts of how the product is marketed vs. how it is played at radio.
Chart methodology is not the same across all of a single organization's charts at the same time nor in a single chart throughout history, and has changed several times. Using my primary frame of reference, the Hot 100, there have been rules that a song has to be removed from the chart after X number of weeks and X degree of drop-off from its peak, regardless of whether it still has enough "points"—meaning sales and/or airplay figures combined and then compared relative to other singles actively marketed at the time which have not so fallen past the cutoff point—that it would otherwise deserve to chart. It's not clear that the approach to B-side chartings has always been consistent, nor what it was at any given time in history (which is the only thing that is relevant to a particular record's charting), nor that it was the same on all charts published by Billboard at a given time. (For example, the mix of sales and airplay has not always been equal across the three primary charts of Hot 100, Hot Country and Hot R&B/Black/Hip-Hop in a given week.) But I can tell you as my anecdotal recollection (you'll have to find a ref supporting it) that at one point the way it was handled on the Hot 100 was that the question of whether sales points were separate or combined was essential to how it was treated on the charts. If a B-side received airplay concurrent with the charting of the A-side then they were combined as one single with two sides recognized but one position. My recollection is that if a B-side charted after the A-side has fallen off the chart, the single was treated as a completely different title, because essentially the whole single begins to sell again on the strength of the second song, and is recognized as two positions.
If we're going to use UK acts as an example, I would offer " We Are the Champions" and " We Will Rock You", two different songs written by the same band, Queen, tracked consecutively on the same album, and released as a single's A- and B-sides, respectively. As two distinctive songs, each with distinct styles, meanings and histories, each deserves its own article. Indeed, with "We Will Rock You" as the B-side to "We Are the Champions", it would be not only jarring but counterintuitive and inappropriate to find the boyband Five's UK #1 cover of Queen's B-side song in an article titled after (and so ostensibly about) Queen's A-side song. Indeed, Five's cover is irrelevant to the song "We Are the Champions", regardless of how that song was initially marketed. It is, however, a notable part of the history of "We Will Rock You" (it charted one point higher on the UK chart than the original). This, I think, is a better example of why songs deserve their own articles regardless of how they are marketed, yet even as these songs do have their separate articles, they are mentioned in the Queen discography#Singles in the same field, separated by a slash mark, as this is how the industry responded to such releases when acknowledging their chartings. To my point of a few paragraphs earlier, most U.S. DJs who played both songs played them not only concurrently, but consecutively, resulting in a single chart peak.
Full disclosure, I don't recall ever having edited any of the articles I cite as examples.
Directly to the OP, I'd determine if the U.S. Country chart you're citing included airplay points during the period(s) those B-sides charted (it's inconceivable to me that they wouldn't have, or why else would a B-side have charted?). If you can't do this (or in its stead) you can incorporate logic and reason to arrive at the answer. Obviously if the chart peak date is the same for both titles, then the methodology is combining the airplay of the two songs as well as the sales points. In this case the songs should be combined with a slash in a single field and their single combined peak must be noted only once, and unless there is historical (prior or since, not necessarily for the duration of that particular release) variance to the articles, the songs could be covered in a single article. (There's no point in creating two distinct song articles if they're only going to be two stubs sitting there mirroring one another.) If the chart peak date is different for the two titles, then the methodology is obviously separating the airplay of the two songs. In this case I would separate the two in different fields in the artist discography. If their chart history is on the same chart and there is no additional history to either song separate from that release, it makes sense to address the B-side only in the A-side's article. If the two songs' chart history is different and there is additional history to one or the other song, it makes sense to address the different songs' different histories in different articles. Abrazame ( talk) 02:12, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
I was just wondering, why can't a chart have a seperate 'refs' column like this...
Chart | Peak position |
Ref |
---|---|---|
Australian Albums Chart | 1 | [5] |
Argentina CAPIF | 1 | - |
Canadian Albums Chart | 1 | [5] |
I'm not complaining that it can't be like this, I'm just wondering why. Thanks! Zylo1994 ( talk) 06:25, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello. I am facing a problem while accessing the Ultratop Music DVD links. For the present week, the link seems to be present. But if I click on the link for the previous week, it generates a unique link, but nothing seems to be present in it. Can anyone shed any light on this? Regards, --Legolas (talk2me) 11:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Is the German certification link dead again or is it just me? --Legolas (talk2me) 12:01, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
Its so frustrating, is it just me or does "Commander" no appear in Kelly Rowland's artist history? The source at billboard.biz shows that the song charted on the European Hot 100 here but i can't cross reference it manually because it appears to be lower region of chart which isn't published online and surprise surprise lovely Billboard.com doesnt have the song in her artist history. Any ideas anyone? Regards, Lil-unique1 ( talk) 00:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
I ask for don't remove Crowley Broadcast Analisys in charts, because it is an official institution of research. So is not a BAD charts, is a good charts. Vitor Mazuco Msg 22:03, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Why do we have categories for #1 singles (eg, in " Girlfriend," Billboard Hot 100 number-one singles/ Number-one singles in New Zealand) but no categories for #1 albums? (eg, in The Best Damn Thing, no categories for the Billboard 200 albums, etc). It can't be that in Wikipedia's entire history that nobody ever attempted to create such pages, but I honestly can't see why such categories would've been deleted. Can someone point me to the discussion on why they don't exist? -- Prosperosity ( talk) 11:23, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
Just wandering is there an approved abbreviation for the U.S. Hot Dance Club Songs chart when using in discography pages?
One user suggested U.S. D/CP → Short of U.S. Hot Dance/Club Play, which I personally disapprove of as the current incarnation of the chart is different.
I am currently using U.S. DAN but I wonder if U.S. DCS or something else would be more appropriate? Lil-unique1 ( talk) 20:00, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Year | Single | Peak chart positions | Album | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
US Dance |
US DCS |
US DAN |
US Dance/ Club |
US D/CS | |||
2010 | "Need You Now" | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Need You Now |
"American Honey" | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||
"Our Kind of Love" | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
This page for the CRIA certifications hasn't been updated since May, does anyone know of another site that has June and/or July? Nowyouseeme talk2me 08:09, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
I have recently noticed an increase in the number of song articles which make reference to the Scottish Singles Chart, apparently it's been around since 2001 yet I personally have only just heard of it lately. Is anyone else in agreement that the Scottish Singles Chart should be listed under the 'Bad Chart' criteria, I understand that it is sourced, but what makes it more important than single sales solely in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Scotland is part of the United Kingdom, and until this changes I see no reason why this particular chart should be emphasised on Wikipedia - what's next North Yorkshire Singles Chart?!?! Stevvvv4444 ( talk) 18:32, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
This has nothing to do with national politics or boundaries. Nobody is saying Scotland is not a real country, but it is still a country within a country and the larger country (the UK) already has a comprehensive chart. This is not called the English chart, or the England and Wales chart, it is the UK chart. The Official UK Charts Company compile the UK chart each week based on sales and downloads from all over the United Kingdom, which includes Scotland. However, the sales data from the three television regions of the UK that cover Scotland and the far north of England are also used to create an additional listing which becomes the Scottish chart. It's a relatively recent listing but it is really nothing more than a regional demographic that is useful for record companies and radio stations. In fact it isn't really even entirely Scottish since the Borders television region includes the far north of England as well as the south of Scotland. The OCC's official website states all of this. It's not quite the same as the way in which the Hot 100 Airplay and Sales are components of the Billboard 100, and perhaps calling the Scottish chart a "sub-division" of the UK chart rather than a component is more accurate, but it is certainly not a genre chart nor is it comparable to one. The same priciples that we use for component charts for inclusion on Wikipedia should apply here otherwise we will be giving undue weight to certain artist discographies by effectively counting their sales twice. As said earlier, if for some reason a record only sells in Scottish retail outlets and therefore it charts on the Scottish chart but not the full UK chart, then by all means it should be included (preferably with a note to clarify it was a limited regional release if this is applicable). Furthermore, as a slight aside, all record sales in Scotland are included in the certifications process by the British Phonographic Industry (Scotland does not have its own separate record industry organisation) which helps to clarify the issue of relationships and borders in this instance. 88.104.28.69 ( talk) 08:49, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
MTVAvril
was invoked but never defined (see the
help page).![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
am i right in think this link: [1] is a bad source for German charts? Also is the Deutsche Black Charts a valid german chart? Lil-unique1 ( talk) 23:37, 2 April 2010 (UTC)
Media Control is the Official German Chart. Every weekly chart (sales or/and airplay) compiled by them on Germany would be valid, but on the official website of the Deutsche Black Chart is not written that's compiled by Media Control. SJ ( talk) 03:42, 4 April 2010 (UTC+1)
The Official Chart Company's website now has complete archives up to position 75 for the main singles and albums charts. Available here. -- JD554 ( talk) 14:02, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Looks pretty good in terms of timeframe. http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/rolling%20stones/ goes back to 1963, which is a lot better than most of these online archives. I'll get UK and UKocc added to {{ singlechart}} added today.— Kww( talk) 15:38, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Thank you for finding this. It looks pretty comprehensive. Maybe we should add it to record charts. e.g.:
this would encourage people to use the source more often? Lil-unique1 ( talk) 15:44, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
Truly nasty, unpleasant technical glitch. They don't support the standard escaping for spaces in the URL, meaning that a standard URL such as http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/Cheryl+Cole won't parse. They want a space, which means that a URL like [http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/Cheryl Cole Cheryl Cole's page on Official charts]<nowiki> formats as link to <nowiki>"http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/Cheryl", not http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/Cheryl Cole". Searching for a way that we can work around this, but let's not go crazy including this archive until we can figure out how to do it right.— Kww( talk) 20:44, 7 April 2010 (UTC)
update:To add links today, use %20 for space, as in http://www.theofficialcharts.com/artist/_/Bonzo%20Dog%20Doo-dah%20Band. There's a bug fix coming, and I'm going to wait to put it into singlechart until things are stable.
I have gone ahead and added the UK R&B chart, because there is a pressing need to get those articles correctly sourced. It uses UKrandb as the chart name, and requires a date, as in:
I have now added the UK Independent Singles Chart (UKindie) and Scotland (Scotland). I agree that Scotland should be treated as a component chart of the UK singles chart.— Kww( talk) 05:08, 8 April 2010 (UTC)
Top100 has returned for both singles and albums Regards, SunCreator ( talk) 14:48, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
for the past couple of days, I've been having problems concerning the situation involving the Between The Lines wiki page. What I find redundant is the fact that the Alternative Songs is removed from the page because of the idea that the chart itself is a component to another. I think it's a bad thing to do. Look at every rock song's wiki page. They all have the three Billboard rock charts. The reason the Alternative Songs chart got removed from the Between The Lines is because it peaked higher in the Rock Songs chart. I know a few songs that peaked higher in Rock Songs than in Alternative (examples: The Good Life by Three Days Grace, Your Decision by Alice in Chains) and I never once saw the Alternative Songs chart removed from those pages. And that's why I'm requesting for the Alternative Songs chart to be shown again on the Between The Lines song's wiki page so that I don't have to be blocked for a extended period of time. David1287 ( talk) 01:04, 9 April 2010 (UTC)
just to inform you that WP:USCHARTS is moving from a draft to guidelines. Billboard says: "Hot Alternative Songs the most popular alternative/modern rock songs, ranked by airplay detections as measured by Nielsen BDS." The of Rock Songs it says "the popular alternative, mainstream rock and triple A songs, ranked by radio airplay audience impressions across those genres measured by Nielson BDS". That undoubtedly makes Alternative Songs a component of Rock Songs. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 12:44, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes. Billboard has itself clarified that. And it is at WP:USCHARTS which althogh i accept is labelled as a proposal will be promoted to guidelines soon. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 21:20, 10 April 2010 (UTC)
Ok two questions.
Thank you Kww. Very helpful, thats gr8. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 00:29, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
Another question though: is the Dutch Tipparade different to the Single Top 100? Its use on Gypsy (Shakira song) has baffled me. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 01:24, 14 April 2010 (UTC)
Top 40 is the official chart in Netherlands. In this site there is also an archive. http://www.top40.nl/ SJ( talk) 13:12, 17 April 2010 (UTC)
Hi all. It has come to my attention that some editors are still confused about the usuage of component charts in particula: Billboard component charts. To conclude the work being done to WP:USCHARTS i would like to pose the following:
Please can you give your opinion, each time referring to proposal 1, proposal 2 or proposal 3 so that we can clearly see what the consensus is. Thanks. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 21:04, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
In response to Kww: Actually WP:USCHARTS is currently listed as a proposal so it had yet to reach guideline/policy status. I've spoken to JubileePoliceMan who is currently auditing the music part of WP:MoS and we've come to agreement that the information could be rationalized into WP:record charts under a US Singles Charts Heading. In response to all other comments... Billboard is only the chart provider and since we do not use this for other charts i see no point to do so for billboard. The Hot 100 is the only exception because it is the only chart which actually has it in its name. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 23:15, 19 April 2010 (UTC)
No thats the point. Im glad i opened the discussion because you've pointed out that there is a valid reason as to why Pop Songs can be used but other airplay charts not used. I was in no way trying to re-define a component chart. Rather the opposite... based on the information we have i was trying to draw the clearest conclusion possible. Im trying to iron out the glitches before the info is rationalised to record charts. There is some more work to be done on the digital charts bit. but the main bit at USCHARTS aparts to be ok. what do you think? Lil-unique1 ( talk) 00:04, 20 April 2010 (UTC)
If song hasn't charted on ultratop 40/50 that then is added position of song on belgium tip parade. my suggestion is that if song has charted on tipparade we add, for flandres 50+tipparade position, and for wallonia 40+tipparade position. example: song has charted on #7 on both flandres and wallonia.
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Wikipedia_talk:Record_charts/Billboard_charts_guide#Rhythmic_Top_40_2 Thanks! Candyo32 ( talk) 01:44, 23 April 2010 (UTC)
Please participate in /Billboard charts guide#Time to move forward and formally propose this page as a Guideline?. The questions raised there go beyond the future of that subpage. I have suggested that this main MOS be split into two pages: MOS and Content. Thank you -- Jubilee ♫ clipman 13:29, 24 April 2010 (UTC)
There is currently an ongoing discussion about the future of this and others MoS naming style. Please consider the issues raised in the discussion and vote if you wish GnevinAWB ( talk) 21:00, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
I know Rolling Stone is a reliable source for charts and discographies of musical artists but is the website working? I am facing issues while trying to access it. --Legolas (talk2me) 06:37, 22 April 2010 (UTC)
Bump - any thoughts on how to sort this out? -- Jubilee ♫ clipman 17:17, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
Today i came across a strange occurance whilst editing. I've noticed the use of tophit.ru to source russian airplay. I've usually left it in or left it down to other editors to use their discretion as to whether it should be used or not. However for the song "I Got You" by Leona Lewis i found the following:
Based on that are we to say this chart has an acceptable methidology? i've seen it appear quite a lot in articles so if we decide its methidology is dubious it should be added to Badcharts. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 06:00, 28 April 2010 (UTC)
It is proposed that Wikipedia:Record charts/Billboard charts guide be merged into WP:record charts. Please comment over at the RfC merge proposal. Thanks -- Jubilee ♫ clipman 01:12, 25 April 2010 (UTC)
Hello, I'm opening a discussion about the refinement and clarification of notability criteria. your opinion here would be appreciated. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 00:07, 11 May 2010 (UTC)
From Polish Music Charts:
Official Polish Airplay Chart is provided by Nielsen Music Control Airplay Services. The Top 5 spots of the airplay charts is published at the official Nielsen Music site every week.
Since 2010 ZPAV publish extended version of Polish Airplay at the official ZPAV site:
http://zpav.pl/rankingi/listy/nielsen/index.php
Please, add polish airplay or polish TOP5 Video here. MecenasMuzyczny ( talk) 09:41, 10 May 2010 (UTC)
Is it back in action ? its on billboard.biz having songs charting now. Candyo32 ( talk) 14:35, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
Someone explain this to me like I'm a 5 year old, because I simply don't get it. I'm trying to determine what the correct certification for Achtung Baby is, but SNEP seems to be confusing me. In 1995, the album was certified double platinum, but a year later, it was certified platinum.
According to the SNEP website, they currently certify like this:
Well, from reading the SNEP Wikipedia article, it seems as if they have re-done their certifications several times. In 1995-1996, this is what the certifications would have been like:
Does this mean that the album was certified for 900,000 copies in 1996? Or was the platinum certification in 1996 not an additional certification, but one that was retroactive to the album's release? Y2kcrazyjoker4 ( talk) 20:28, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
Looks to me like the 1996 chart is listing a platinum received in 1991, while the 1995 chart is showing a double platinum received in 1995. I'd go with the 1995 listing.— Kww( talk) 20:49, 20 May 2010 (UTC)
It has been proposed this MOS be moved to Wikipedia:Subject style guide . Please comment at the RFC GnevinAWB ( talk) 20:54, 24 May 2010 (UTC)
We need to discuss on the Scottish Charts available at TOCC website. --Legolas (talk2me) 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
We also need to move the archives to the new name, else they would be lost. --Legolas (talk2me) 05:40, 25 May 2010 (UTC)
It should really be on this page but ... somehow a discussion about the danish single charts got underway at Talk:Fascination (Alphabeat song). - Meewam ( talk) 13:28, 28 May 2010 (UTC)
Singlechart got vandalized today to simply output an obscenity. If you see charts that are expanding that way, purge the article. There's a new button on the new skin (which I don't use). The reliable way is to add &action=purge to the URL and load up, i.e. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bad_Boys_%28Alexandra_Burke_song%29&action=purge . That will forcibly update the article to the latest, unvandalized version of the template. I've semiprotected the template to try to reduce the probability of a reoccurence.
— Kww( talk) 16:16, 1 June 2010 (UTC)
Is the "Polish National Top 50" chart the same as the chart "Poland Albums Top 50"? Polish National Top 50 is listed as a band chart which is supposed to be found at ACharts, but I can only find Poland Albums Top 50 here. Sorafune +1 18:31, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
I was wondering if the daily and monthly charts should be included in the articles for Japanese releases? The reason I ask is because unlike the weekly chart when the day and month changes, the previous day or month for that chart is no longer accessible. I mean it will be accessible if someone archives the charts during that certain day or month, but most people that edit those articles do not do so. So should they be excluded from the article? MS (Talk| Contributions) 22:32, 4 June 2010 (UTC)
When does a new month's Brazilian chart debut? I have only been peripherally following this issue, but my understanding was that, while there was no chart archive, a current chart could be found online. Yet upon a claim at I Want To Know What Love Is that Mariah Carey's version had charted at #1 there for five months, which they parenthetically claimed was 19 weeks, I scratched my head (as November through February is actually more like 13 weeks) and checked Wiki's Brasil Hot 100 Airplay article. There I found no March data, despite its being March 11. I then visited the link at Billboard Brasil, http://billboard.br.com/rankings#brasil-hot-100-airplay (because there is no reference for the material at Brasil Hot 100 Airplay), and found no current data for Brazil's charts, only a link to the U.S. charts for the week ending March 13.
Is it common for there to be a lag time between when the prior chart is removed from the site and the next one posted? (Why on earth would that be so? The only reason I can think of is that they are indicating that the chart is not meant to represent a whole month, but merely a representative week of that month?) Perhaps I'm checking during the couple of minutes the page is being reconfigured for the new month? Have the Brazilian charts been discontinued after a mere five? I'd be interested to know if anybody has any insight on this.
On a related issue, there is List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2009 (Brazil) and a List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2010 (Brazil). The inaugural chart was in October 2009 and it is a monthly chart, meaning that there are only 3 charts that year and only 12 charts in any year. The first #1 ran for two charts and the second #1 for three (albeit spanning two years), so the first list consists of two singles.
Additionally, there is a List of number-one pop hits of 2009 (Brazil) which happens to be the same as List of Hot 100 number-one singles of 2009 (Brazil) (ditto for 2010). And then of course there is the domestic chart, List of number-one popular hits of 2009 (Brazil), which is a lone Brazilian artist for 2009 and another for 2010 to date. I note that List of French number-one hits of 2009 — which is a weekly chart — is split into physical singles and digital singles. The French list then adds the same data for albums as well as a top 10 of the year in both sales categories for both singles and albums.
Considering that there are only four singles represented across these six Brazilian articles covering five months' worth of three charts, doesn't it make sense to combine the scant data in a similar manner that we combine the more frequently updated data at the French article? Thanks, Abrazame ( talk) 07:46, 11 March 2010 (UTC)
A few points to address in this discussion. First, Jayy008 is correct that Crowley compiles the chart, and Crowley has compiled Brazilian airplay charts for a long time. However, (and this is a big "however"), they did not publish a national airplay chart, only regional ones. Thus, there is no history before the publication of the first Billboard Brasil to make a valid comparison to.
Second, the Billboard Brasil website is a shambles. No archiving, days where all the charts disappear, links to US charts appearing in inappropriate places. The website cannot be used as a source, only the magazine.
Third, as for articles that reproduce lists of number ones or otherwise reproduce chart data from proprietary sources, I maintain that they should all be deleted as copyright violations. Discussions of folding them or how to format them are moot: if the purpose they serve is to reiterate a chart, they shouldn't exist.— Kww( talk) 14:37, 12 March 2010 (UTC)
Thanks, Kww, for clearing that up. But my issues remain unresponded to, which is even more troubling a week after I first noted them. Not unlike Legolas' comment in the Argentina thread below about CAPIF, I am unclear on the purpose of mentioning or linking http://www.crowley.com.br/arquivos_comuns/about_crowley.asp in this thread. Is the current national airplay chart posted somewhere at the Crowley site? Is there a searchable database there? If so, can we post a site map on how to get there for English language users? I'm troubled that we're 18 days into the month and a chart that by the explanation above was supposed to have been available two and a half weeks ago is still not cited in the articles I mention above. The Billboard.br link I pasted above from one of our article cites is still blank. This does not seem to be the way a major operation like Billboard handles data they find encyclopedic and worthy, and presenting as our most recent data in the second half of March material from a February chart that, as Jayy008 notes, actually represented airplay in the month of January, raises some red flags to me on how seriously we should take this as a reliable chart.
To Jayy008, you say that the song has been number one in February and March: where have you gotten that information? Again, this is about the chart, not about the song, but of course the purpose of the chart is to make claims about songs, and it perplexes me how you and others are doing that.
I thank you, too, Kww, for your response about the Brazilian albums chart in the thread below. Abrazame ( talk) 11:29, 18 March 2010 (UTC)
I saw Kww's notice at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject Brazil, and yes, I confirm the magazine is still on the stands. Unfortunately, they cost quite too much for me to keep them at home only to serve as physical references, although I sometimes check them to find out information on singles I might want to work on. Victão Lopes I hear you... 02:42, 28 March 2010 (UTC)
So ten days later, now in the second week of the following month, and still nothing at Billboard.br. Any effort currently being made by Brazilian editors? (Are there any Brazilian Wikipedians interested in contemporary music other than Victao? One guy who "sometimes checks" the newsstands is not enough for us to maintain coverage, and if Billboard isn't making it available online, they clearly don't wish there to be widespread notice taken.) Any objection to my opening an AfD on our lists? Abrazame ( talk) 07:09, 6 April 2010 (UTC)
Is this now a suitable interim solution? it appears to be the official publication by Crawley Broadcast Systems who are responsible for Brazilian charts. I think it would need manual archiving with WEBCITE or something similar though. [4] Lil-unique1 ( talk) 00:30, 13 April 2010 (UTC)
Yes, Decodet, thank you; more than two months since I began the thread and three weeks since your purchase, I'll summarize the points repeatedly made above that the help required is for you to log in to your account and properly cite that magazine issue as reference for whichever months' positions it confirms in the chart lists. This will prevent the lists from being tagged for wholesale deletion as being completely unreferenced, insofar as there is apparently no other accessible source anyone is willing or able to cite there. Abrazame ( talk) 12:19, 15 May 2010 (UTC)
The UK Singles Chart article suggests that the UK Singles Chart is a 200 positions chart (not citing any references), but the Single Charts page at the theofficialcharts.com shows only 100 positions (and the page title is "Singles Top 40"?). A user reverted my edit to the Alphabeat discography article and posted a comment on my talk page. Am I missing something here? - Meewam ( talk) 22:28, 9 June 2010 (UTC)
The following charts should be removed from the table of those that can be used when a song has charted on the Hot 100:
Per these charts' pages on Billboard.com, they only track radio airplay and are thus components of the Radio Songs chart, which itself is a component of the Hot 100. The only genre chart that also tracks sales, according to the Billboard website, is the Hot R&B/Hip Hop Songs chart. Including a bunch of spin-offs of the radio chart for songs that have already charted on the main chart, the Hot 100, is unnecessary and will only drag the chart table out longer than it needs to be. – Chase ( talk) 01:12, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
It is more complicated as some of the charts track more than one form of airplay. e.g. Rap Songs consists of Mainstream R&B/Hip-Hop Airplay and Rhythmic Airply
Rock Songs is made of: mainstream rock airplay, triple a airplay and alternative airplay.
The problem with this issue is that you can become very nitty gritty. for example per your comments we should disallow Hot R&B/Hip-Hop Songs because that charts consists of R&B/Hip-Hop Sales (which itself is a component of Hot 100 Sales) and R&B Hip/Hop Airplay (which is a component of Hot 100 Airplay). The key factor here is that essentially all genre charts can in someway be described as a component of the main single's chart. Hope that helps, Regards. Lil-unique1 ( talk) 16:46, 12 June 2010 (UTC)
http://jam.canoe.ca/Music/Charts/DIGITAL.html I've seen this mentioned as a "component chart" of the Canadian Hot 100, but the case of the Canadian download chart is different from that of the US Digital Songs Chart. From ~2005 until Billboard unveiled their own Canadian chart, the top 10 of the download chart was published in the international section of the Billboard magazine as the chart of Canada - naturally they would replace this with their own chart when they created it much like I'm sure they replaced Japan's Oricon Charts as the "official" chart when they created the Japan Hot 100. This chart existed PRIOR to the creation of the Hot 100. It is still published by one of Canada's largest internet resources - Canoe - in the National Charts section of the entertainment site - Jam!. Now, the chart was official for Billboard for 2 years, so I fail to see how, just because Billboard decided to utilise the data used to compile this chart, it has suddenly became a component chart. This is to say that if Billboard decided to make a chart in France based off numbers used by the SNEP Download Chart and airplay data, the SNEP chart would become a component chart as well. I think that the Download Chart should be allowed to be listed in chart boxes as a standalone chart, seeing as it exists as a standalone chart on a major (and native Canadian, may I add) internet publication. At the very least I think that number ones should be kept track of in an article - perhaps similar to this page (UK Download Chart) or how number ones on the Digital Songs chart are kept track of, and in the event that a song reaches a significant position on the Download Chart (i.e. Top 10 or Number 1) but not on the Billboard chart it should be mentioned in the "Chart Performance" paragraph of a song's article. Chele9211 ( talk) 20:07, 17 June 2010 (UTC)
I'm sorry to raise this topic again when it seems to have come up frequently before, but (1) I've just come upon my first occasion to care about Polish charts, and (2) I'm confused about a few things.
First of all, I don't mean to be talking about the Polish National Top 50, which from my research appears to have been much discussed and much deleted. My direct concern is something called the Polish Airplay Chart.
I spent the afternoon working over Oceana (well, I enjoyed it), and I tried to rehabilitate the peak positions shown for her singles in Poland. (I feel comfortable about the albums chart, which Polish Music Charts clearly says is official, with agreement at WP:GOODCHARTS, and good availability at OLiS.) The existing ref for Oceana's Polish singles was to http://www.charly1300.com/polskaairplay.htm, which includes a bunch of archives, each labelled "POLSKA AIRPLAY TOP 100" from some week.
I'm not sure I should be using these, though. For one thing, the Web site
http://www.charly1300.com/ looks a lot like Some Guy's Site (the archived charts mention "This Polska Airplay Top 100 is compiled by Charles Pons"). It's actually a nice-looking site, but I can't tell where he's getting his data, or there'll just all unlicensed copies. Secondly,
WP:GOODCHARTS doesn't point anywhere near there.Well, unless you count the big link in the fifth column, there. –JFP, 04:32, 20 June 2010 (UTC) Thirdly, it's not clear from
Polish Music Charts that there are any official singles chart, although I believe there must be (I'm picturing more than 5 songs a week, though). And lastly, I found
this recent discussion from May, which talks about a "Polish Airplay TOP 5" being published by ZPAV. There are currently 10 of these archived charts spanning the ages all the way back to March (that's 50 - FIFTY! - songs, folks) and I gather that they are all very official, although they haven't made it into
WP:GOODCHARTS yet.
Do I understand correctly that the five ZPAV archives mentioned in that archived Discussion are the only Polish single charts we want to use? That the charly1300.com is definitely not to be used? Shall I delete the Polish column from the Singles table at Oceana? — JohnFromPinckney ( talk) 23:20, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
What would be the best method to handle double-sided hits? For instance, a look at Razzy Bailey's discography shows that he had a few songs where both the A-side and B-side went to #1 — namely, "I Keep Coming Back"/"True Life Country Music" and "Friends"/"Anywhere There's a Jukebox." I spoke to Razzy about this last week and he said it means that stations were playing both sides, but it was treated as one single on the charts. What's the best way to list these, both in the single articles and discography? Ten Pound Hammer, his otters and a clue-bat • ( Many otters • One bat • One hammer) 15:39, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
Well the usual thing to do is if a single (containing two songs e.g. a double A-side like Leona Lewis "Better in Time" / Footprints in the Sand") is released in the discography both songs should appear as in the first example. However if only one of the songs was the a-side hence the other being the b-side then only the a-side appears.
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In the second example, "A Moment Like This" is the A-side (the actual song released) and so only it appears in the discography. However if its b-side (a cover of "Sorry Seems to be the Hardest Word") had charted then that should appear on "A Moment Like This"'s page. Normally b-side songs should not be given their own page unless they meet WP:NSONGS criteria per usual. They certainly should not be treated as seperate releases from their respective a-side singles. Regards, Lil-unique1 ( talk) 15:52, 19 June 2010 (UTC)
I think this is a more interesting and nuanced and not easily pinned-down issue than the responses belie.
Firstly, the OP asked a question specifically about B-side chartings, and the answer given related to Double A-sides that could not have charted independently versus B-sides that did not chart, which is not in any manner an answer to the question.
Wikipedia apparently has a policy wherein we ostensibly write articles not about singles but about songs. This means that if artist X writes a song that is released as a single, and artist Y covers that song and releases it as a single, then artist Y's cover is addressed in the article about artist X's song. There are any number of good arguments against this approach, but if this is Wikipedia's approach, we can accept that. As we accept that, we have to then recognize that a different song that charts for an artist—which as a charting song would have been notable enough to deserve its own article if the A-side of the single it was on did not exist—that different song warrants its own different article.
This issue is complicated by the fact that there are music markets and music charts where the chart methodology is only one factor of that single's success (only sales, or only airplay). By using the UK chartings of Leona Lewis as your example, you're choosing a chart that is a sales-only chart, where obviously there's no measure of the relative success of any individual song on that single, and inherently a B-side cannot chart on a sales-only chart. It is the whole product that charts in a sales-only chart, and the whole product of an A- and B-sided single is known by the A-side's title. If it is a double-A-side single, there is no B-side (three-plus-track singles notwithstanding), and of course both A-sides require mention in the title because that is the way it was marketed, equal prominence on the same product, regardless of whether one part of that marketing spurred more sales than the other. (In this sales-only example, the bottom line in a chart table is the whole product, and the whole product has two names, both A-sides'.) Conversely, when a chart is a radio-only chart, then a B-side (or the "other" A-side) only receives airplay and only bears qualifying in a charting-oriented discography table when the powers that be at radio stations decide to play it. (In this airplay-only example, the programmers may choose to ignore the marketing, and the bottom line in a charting-oriented discography table isn't what the product was named but which song earned that airplay.)
If radio decides to play a record's B-side (which is a different situation than a single that is marketed as a double A-side whether the public receives it as such or not), that is the B-side of the same single—and would justifiably be handled in an article about that single if articles about singles are what we published here at Wikipedia—but it is also a different song, and given that articles are not about singles, and instead about songs, it is justifiable to handle in a different article about that different song. You can argue all you want that a radio programmer only played the B-side because nothing else was available and there was a demand for more material by the hit artist, but then quite often an artist's major hit, in incredible demand, is followed up by a single absolutely rejected by radio and/or listeners, for whatever reasons not the least of which is that they'd still prefer to hear the prior hit.
The responses bespeak another misunderstanding, and it's probably the result of a combination of ethnocentrism and recentism endemic to this page, given that the examples cited are all Leona Lewis UK chartings. In a chart whose methodology is or includes radio airplay, the airplay for a B-side is not necessarily going to be equal to the airplay to that record's A-side, nor is it necessarily going to have the same chart trajectory. In other words, the two songs may both be played immediately upon release, or the A-side may peak before the B-side is turned to, no pun intended, or the B-side may actually be preferred by radio, and it's the B-side that actually gets initial or higher or even the only airplay points and thus a higher chart peak.
Further to the recentism angle, with points we have another problem: isolate a single country, say the U.S. instead of the UK as the U.S. has a more comprehensive methodology, and isolate a single source, say Billboard as it's currently the unrivaled chart company here, and isolate a single chart, say the Hot Country charts, as it was actually the chart relevant to the artist the OP was asking about, and you still have a highly complex manner of determining charting, one that has changed over the years, sometimes fairly arbitrary and sometimes highly technical, but which nevertheless we should consider, how the chart compiler handles the facts of how the product is marketed vs. how it is played at radio.
Chart methodology is not the same across all of a single organization's charts at the same time nor in a single chart throughout history, and has changed several times. Using my primary frame of reference, the Hot 100, there have been rules that a song has to be removed from the chart after X number of weeks and X degree of drop-off from its peak, regardless of whether it still has enough "points"—meaning sales and/or airplay figures combined and then compared relative to other singles actively marketed at the time which have not so fallen past the cutoff point—that it would otherwise deserve to chart. It's not clear that the approach to B-side chartings has always been consistent, nor what it was at any given time in history (which is the only thing that is relevant to a particular record's charting), nor that it was the same on all charts published by Billboard at a given time. (For example, the mix of sales and airplay has not always been equal across the three primary charts of Hot 100, Hot Country and Hot R&B/Black/Hip-Hop in a given week.) But I can tell you as my anecdotal recollection (you'll have to find a ref supporting it) that at one point the way it was handled on the Hot 100 was that the question of whether sales points were separate or combined was essential to how it was treated on the charts. If a B-side received airplay concurrent with the charting of the A-side then they were combined as one single with two sides recognized but one position. My recollection is that if a B-side charted after the A-side has fallen off the chart, the single was treated as a completely different title, because essentially the whole single begins to sell again on the strength of the second song, and is recognized as two positions.
If we're going to use UK acts as an example, I would offer " We Are the Champions" and " We Will Rock You", two different songs written by the same band, Queen, tracked consecutively on the same album, and released as a single's A- and B-sides, respectively. As two distinctive songs, each with distinct styles, meanings and histories, each deserves its own article. Indeed, with "We Will Rock You" as the B-side to "We Are the Champions", it would be not only jarring but counterintuitive and inappropriate to find the boyband Five's UK #1 cover of Queen's B-side song in an article titled after (and so ostensibly about) Queen's A-side song. Indeed, Five's cover is irrelevant to the song "We Are the Champions", regardless of how that song was initially marketed. It is, however, a notable part of the history of "We Will Rock You" (it charted one point higher on the UK chart than the original). This, I think, is a better example of why songs deserve their own articles regardless of how they are marketed, yet even as these songs do have their separate articles, they are mentioned in the Queen discography#Singles in the same field, separated by a slash mark, as this is how the industry responded to such releases when acknowledging their chartings. To my point of a few paragraphs earlier, most U.S. DJs who played both songs played them not only concurrently, but consecutively, resulting in a single chart peak.
Full disclosure, I don't recall ever having edited any of the articles I cite as examples.
Directly to the OP, I'd determine if the U.S. Country chart you're citing included airplay points during the period(s) those B-sides charted (it's inconceivable to me that they wouldn't have, or why else would a B-side have charted?). If you can't do this (or in its stead) you can incorporate logic and reason to arrive at the answer. Obviously if the chart peak date is the same for both titles, then the methodology is combining the airplay of the two songs as well as the sales points. In this case the songs should be combined with a slash in a single field and their single combined peak must be noted only once, and unless there is historical (prior or since, not necessarily for the duration of that particular release) variance to the articles, the songs could be covered in a single article. (There's no point in creating two distinct song articles if they're only going to be two stubs sitting there mirroring one another.) If the chart peak date is different for the two titles, then the methodology is obviously separating the airplay of the two songs. In this case I would separate the two in different fields in the artist discography. If their chart history is on the same chart and there is no additional history to either song separate from that release, it makes sense to address the B-side only in the A-side's article. If the two songs' chart history is different and there is additional history to one or the other song, it makes sense to address the different songs' different histories in different articles. Abrazame ( talk) 02:12, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
I was just wondering, why can't a chart have a seperate 'refs' column like this...
Chart | Peak position |
Ref |
---|---|---|
Australian Albums Chart | 1 | [5] |
Argentina CAPIF | 1 | - |
Canadian Albums Chart | 1 | [5] |
I'm not complaining that it can't be like this, I'm just wondering why. Thanks! Zylo1994 ( talk) 06:25, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Hello. I am facing a problem while accessing the Ultratop Music DVD links. For the present week, the link seems to be present. But if I click on the link for the previous week, it generates a unique link, but nothing seems to be present in it. Can anyone shed any light on this? Regards, --Legolas (talk2me) 11:14, 22 June 2010 (UTC)
Is the German certification link dead again or is it just me? --Legolas (talk2me) 12:01, 29 June 2010 (UTC)
Its so frustrating, is it just me or does "Commander" no appear in Kelly Rowland's artist history? The source at billboard.biz shows that the song charted on the European Hot 100 here but i can't cross reference it manually because it appears to be lower region of chart which isn't published online and surprise surprise lovely Billboard.com doesnt have the song in her artist history. Any ideas anyone? Regards, Lil-unique1 ( talk) 00:42, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
I ask for don't remove Crowley Broadcast Analisys in charts, because it is an official institution of research. So is not a BAD charts, is a good charts. Vitor Mazuco Msg 22:03, 30 June 2010 (UTC)
Why do we have categories for #1 singles (eg, in " Girlfriend," Billboard Hot 100 number-one singles/ Number-one singles in New Zealand) but no categories for #1 albums? (eg, in The Best Damn Thing, no categories for the Billboard 200 albums, etc). It can't be that in Wikipedia's entire history that nobody ever attempted to create such pages, but I honestly can't see why such categories would've been deleted. Can someone point me to the discussion on why they don't exist? -- Prosperosity ( talk) 11:23, 4 July 2010 (UTC)
Just wandering is there an approved abbreviation for the U.S. Hot Dance Club Songs chart when using in discography pages?
One user suggested U.S. D/CP → Short of U.S. Hot Dance/Club Play, which I personally disapprove of as the current incarnation of the chart is different.
I am currently using U.S. DAN but I wonder if U.S. DCS or something else would be more appropriate? Lil-unique1 ( talk) 20:00, 8 July 2010 (UTC)
Year | Single | Peak chart positions | Album | ||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
US Dance |
US DCS |
US DAN |
US Dance/ Club |
US D/CS | |||
2010 | "Need You Now" | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | Need You Now |
"American Honey" | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | ||
"Our Kind of Love" | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 | 1 |
This page for the CRIA certifications hasn't been updated since May, does anyone know of another site that has June and/or July? Nowyouseeme talk2me 08:09, 9 July 2010 (UTC)
I have recently noticed an increase in the number of song articles which make reference to the Scottish Singles Chart, apparently it's been around since 2001 yet I personally have only just heard of it lately. Is anyone else in agreement that the Scottish Singles Chart should be listed under the 'Bad Chart' criteria, I understand that it is sourced, but what makes it more important than single sales solely in England, Wales and Northern Ireland. Scotland is part of the United Kingdom, and until this changes I see no reason why this particular chart should be emphasised on Wikipedia - what's next North Yorkshire Singles Chart?!?! Stevvvv4444 ( talk) 18:32, 27 June 2010 (UTC)
This has nothing to do with national politics or boundaries. Nobody is saying Scotland is not a real country, but it is still a country within a country and the larger country (the UK) already has a comprehensive chart. This is not called the English chart, or the England and Wales chart, it is the UK chart. The Official UK Charts Company compile the UK chart each week based on sales and downloads from all over the United Kingdom, which includes Scotland. However, the sales data from the three television regions of the UK that cover Scotland and the far north of England are also used to create an additional listing which becomes the Scottish chart. It's a relatively recent listing but it is really nothing more than a regional demographic that is useful for record companies and radio stations. In fact it isn't really even entirely Scottish since the Borders television region includes the far north of England as well as the south of Scotland. The OCC's official website states all of this. It's not quite the same as the way in which the Hot 100 Airplay and Sales are components of the Billboard 100, and perhaps calling the Scottish chart a "sub-division" of the UK chart rather than a component is more accurate, but it is certainly not a genre chart nor is it comparable to one. The same priciples that we use for component charts for inclusion on Wikipedia should apply here otherwise we will be giving undue weight to certain artist discographies by effectively counting their sales twice. As said earlier, if for some reason a record only sells in Scottish retail outlets and therefore it charts on the Scottish chart but not the full UK chart, then by all means it should be included (preferably with a note to clarify it was a limited regional release if this is applicable). Furthermore, as a slight aside, all record sales in Scotland are included in the certifications process by the British Phonographic Industry (Scotland does not have its own separate record industry organisation) which helps to clarify the issue of relationships and borders in this instance. 88.104.28.69 ( talk) 08:49, 18 July 2010 (UTC)
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