This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I was skimming the previous nominations tool, and I saw a fair amount of articles that were "Re-{{prod}}ed." What is the justification for being able to re-prod an article? The only step necessary under " How to prevent an article from being deleted" is "Edit the article to remove the Template:Prod. Please note this in your edit summary." Are these re-prods only occuring when the removing user provides no edit summary, when it's the creator of the page (see "Can article creators remove this tag?" above), or is there some other reason a page can be re-proded? (N.B.: Not accusing anyone of any wrong doing, just curious.) E WS23 | (Leave me a message!) 00:47, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I just inserted the parenthetic phrase "even without stating the reason" to the part about not restoring the template no matter why the person removed it, because this is what we determined on the talk page and some people haven't been interpreting the guideline that way. NickelShoe 17:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
It looks like the prod data is somewhat askew. Unfortunately, that time actually comes from the wikipedia database itself ( categorylinks.cl_timestamp), it's not something I calculate or have control over. I'm trying to find out what happened from one of the wikimedia admins (especially to make sure that it doesn't happen again), but I don't know what to do beyond that. -- Interiot 15:43, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Does this mean that the Prod process is dead as long as some vandal remembers to hit the Prod template every few days? -- Measure 12:10, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
In practice, prod actually seems to be useful in cases that aren't uncontroversial, as a wake-up call for the editor before people start voting against it in AfD. I've seen a couple of cases where an article which was deprodded by the creator was reprodded by someone who found prod to be a more forgiving method of deletion than AfD. Swiftcover and Best Friends...Different Personalities, specifically.
I can totally see this, particularly on newly created articles. Even though prod is supposedly for uncontroversial deletions, it works well for cases of notability and verification by giving a deadline instead of asking people to vote on something based on their guess that it isn't verifiable or notable simply because they don't know about it or find it on Google. Does this make sense? It seems that prod is effective for this, but this wasn't its goal, and maybe it should be tweaked to emphasize this aspect a little more? Notability is technically speediable if no claim is made to it, but sticking it on prod gives someone a few days to fix that (And if prod stays, I'd be in favor of despeedying that criterion to give articles a chance without forcing it to go through AfD). Instead of just being a streamlined deletion, it seems to work for improving articles. If this gets rid of a few articles that had the possibility of expansion and clearer claims to notability, they'll be abandoned stubs without much information in the first place, so the loss isn't that great. Thoughts? NickelShoe 18:20, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if we already do this, but I suggest we advertise proposed deletion on uncontroversial votes on AfD. PROD is not realising its full benefit due to many people who don't yet know about it. Maybe we could have a template that says something like this:
Deco 19:54, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Looking at the Proposed Deletion: previous nominations I notice a large number of articles marked as "re{{prod}}ed"—all at 2006/02/25 14:31. Taking a random sample of these articles I noticed that, at least the ones that I looked at, were marked with a prod tag once, and the tag has not been removed. Is this a bug in the system? JeremyA 21:14, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I found 4 (so far) articles that had been tagged with PROD twice. I've removed them and notified the editors that adding it a second time is not supposed to be done. That's a minor thing until people get a better idea of how it's supposed to work. However, this followed by this is probably not a good idea. As now you have the orphan Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dinosaurs and Ethics. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 00:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Believe it or not, I've encountered the same thing and moved the articles to AfD. (I just felt it was unnecessary on Lulu Lemon by the spirit of the guideline because the deprod wasn't actually intended as an objection to deletion.) Probably around 4 on my part as well. As far as I can tell, about half the time people just don't check the page history, and the other half they don't realize they aren't supposed to reprod. (If people notified the article creators, they'd be forced to check the page history...) NickelShoe 01:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I {{ prod}}ded Spotscouter on February 21 as "advertising and protologism". The tag survived for more than five days. I have read elsewhere that there's some sort of admin backlog on prod deletions, which is fine. However, a little while ago Rory096 blanked the page and turned it into a redirect to Spotscout (which I had also {{ prod}}ed at the same time, but was turned into a full AfD, where it is about to be killed off thanks to a unanimous consensus to delete). What is the next step in the process in this case? I have no reason to believe that any admin intentionally refused to delete Spotscouter, and it's going to die anyway as soon as some admin closes the Spotscout AfD, so I have no idea why Rory096's made that edit, and see no reason why it shouldn't be deleted now. Does this qualify as a speedy delete? -- Aaron 05:22, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I see some very obvious speedy candidates being prodded. It must be mentioned somewhere that people can add a speedy tag to a prod-ded article or that an admin can speedy del a prodded one if it meets CSD criteria, just as in AFD. -- Gurubrahma 13:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I speedied a prodded article just last night, and found myself unsure of the protocol. Should I have removed the prod tag when I added the speedy tag, or should I have left both on? I chose the latter, but mainly because I was unsure. Advice welcome. · rodii · 15:51, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I've changed quite a few speedy tags to prod, but wouldn't feel comfortable doing the reverse.
So, even if it's so obviously a speedy that it should never has been tagged, it's a low-cost "rule" that doesn't have many drawbacks. In fact, do we have a system for seeing anything that gets deleted prior to it's five days? That was anything that was (for example) clearly libelous that got deleted early would set off an "alarm" and get examined and everyone would say "good job". Conversly, if we see lots of things going early, we either tune up people to what to put prod on or tune up our admins about deleting early.
So, long story short, I don't see any advantage right now to deleting a pink panda hoaxes early.
brenneman {T} {L} 05:58, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
The only problem I see with this is that if someone removes PROD, it goes to AFD and everyone there starts yelling, why bring it here? why not speedy?? and all that. :) but I guess it is okay, especially given that PROD is still in test stage. We can refine it when we are ready for the roll out. -- Gurubrahma 11:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I think that displaying the username of the nominator would make it easier to identify inappropriate or bad-faith nominations. -- Kjkolb 07:01, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
I prodded some articles 7 days ago. They are still alive but they don't show up in the toolserver's current list (I thought they should turn red indicating they can be deleted). For example ( Nobelcom). Is this a bug in the toolserver or are the articles listed somewhere in an admin backlog file? Thatcher131 18:52, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
When a page is deleted through WP:PROD the deletion summary typically says " WP:PROD - listed for 5 or more days without being contested". This means that the reason for the article being submitted to PROD in the first place is deleted with the article. This means that anyone interested has no idea on what grounds the article has been deleted. Would it be possible to require that all deletion summaries include the original reason for submission to PROD? (See WP:HD for the discussion that brought this up) Thanks. -- Cherry blossom tree 15:44, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I created a template called Template:Polite-prod, similiar to Template:polite-afd, to put on user's talk pages when prodding an article. Instead of directing them to the Afd talk page, it directs them to the article talk page and the WP:PROD guidelines page. I hopeI did a good thing, this was my first template. Anyway, if you think it might be useful, should it be mentioned on the main page? Thanks. Thatcher131 04:04, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
In response to NickelShoe's thought above, I've taken the liberty to create {{ PRODNote}} (and, incidentally, {{ AFDNote}}) for notifying users about deletions proposed by someone else. Sandstein 06:13, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
It's possible to pre-specify a reason for deletion in a URL: [{{fullurle:{{NAMESPACEE}}:{{PAGENAMEE}}|action=delete&wpReason=PROD:{{{1}}}}} delete] This would allow the PROD reason to be automatically filled into reason for deletion box, if people use the link to delete the page. This would be a Good Thing. However, there's a problem. PROD reasons often include a spaces, and sometimes include wikilinks. Both of these things screw up the URL above. What's needed is a way to urlencode the arbitrary stuff in the PROD reason. I don't know of a way to do that in MediaWiki; hopefully someone reading this does, because this would be a really nice feature to have... JesseW, the juggling janitor 06:41, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I just afd'd an article, then saw at the top of the page that perhaps I should have used this process. I suggest that someone who understands this proposal should update the afd1 template to let people know that this alternative exists. Regards, Ben Aveling 13:08, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I have yet to have an article that I've prod tagged actually go as prod (out of at least 3 or 4), and that is because just one person who is either unaware of or uninterested in reading WP article guidelines can object and thus send the article to AfD, where it will probably be deleted. So what prod is doing is adding another step to the process, because there's no qualification for removal required. MSJapan 17:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me that it's a pretty good solution. If you think an article would be a nolo contendere delete at AfD, this is the one to use. If you think an article should be speediable but doesn't quite fit the stringent CSDs, this is the one to use. If it doesn't get deleted and it still looks deletable to you, there's nothing to stop you listing on AfD. What is there to lose? -- Tony Sidaway 23:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
The prod seems to be working very well (beter than I expected) and I'm impressed by the history reports. There's one problem and I don't know who to tell. The history log doesn't filter by time and it's getting too long. It takes a long time for my browser to display it because it's so long. Can someone add a time filter so users can control what range of dates it displays? RJFJR 18:40, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
User:NATEamx currently appears on the Proposed Deletion log -- even though I can't find any evidence of a {{prod}} tag on his user page. I note that his page formerly included a template ( Template:User MAX (band)) which had been subjected to the PROD tag, but I have removed PROD from that template because PROD is not supposed to be used for anything outside the main space. In other words, I don't know how it is that User:NATEamx appears on the deletion log, and at any rate, he shouldn't. -- Metropolitan90 07:59, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Is this idea so crazy that no one, AFAICS, has suggested it before? -- Perfecto 16:07, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
The lag is currently 14 hours. Who/how do we tell? RJFJR 15:58, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
The tool server pages seem to be using external or tool server links, so there's no quick way of seeing which >>5 days PROD'd articles have already been deleted (redlink) and which haven't. If admins are to be encouraged to close PROD issues there should be a simple one stop shop which lists the pages which have been PROD'd for greater than 5 days and not yet been dealt with by an admin (either deleted or had the PROD tag removed). If there is such a list, please tell me where :) -- kingboyk 07:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I think this proposed deletion process is a success. It says on WP:PROP, this process goes live for a test run in one week (Feb 4th). That's nearly six weeks ago - is its test run over yet? Can we agree on its graduating from a proposal? Can we remove {{ proposed}}? -- RobertG ♬ talk 16:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use {{subst:prod}} ? The forn {{
prod|...}}
does not work if a diff is mentioned in the reason, probably because of the = character in the URL. See
User:Jitse Niesen/sandbox for an example. --
Jitse Niesen (
talk) 07:32, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I prodded a page ( Bulge of Africa) on Feb. 24, and it was (I thought) deleted a few days later. See [ [1]] for the log. However, the page is still there, and the history doesn't show my edit, nor indeed any edits between Feb. 2 and my re-prodding of it tonight. (I re-prodded because I thought I was losing my mind, then thought to check "What links here" and found the log entry.) When I click on the "Time nominated" link in the log, I get a message that says The database did not find the text of a page that it should have found, named "Bulge of Africa (Diff: 37878939, 41037120)". I'm really confused by this. Can anyone explain what's going on? Was the edit where I prodded the page deleted? · rodii · 04:03, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Apologies to all the above. I misinterpreted the new prod rules. When an article is prodded and you disagree with the prod, you remove the prod notice. This article was prodded and deleted. I restored it (as I believed it was perfectly expandable and useful) and removed the prod notice, as per the prod instructions. The easiest way to do that was simply to restore the version immediately prior to the addition of the prod notice (perhaps I should have restored the prod, then removed it, so it was laziness on my part). I'm not quite clear what was wrong with that other than laziness, but it seems it was wrong, so I apologise. Grutness... wha? 00:40, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
<-- Speaking only for the proper application of prod I'd hesitate to restore something deleted without placing it up for AfD. This comes down to the "Administrator/Morlock" boundry again: most people couldn't simply restore as a way of objecting to a prod, thus I'm hesitant with regards to administrators doing so. DRV does a pseudo-automatic restore of prodded material as well. Thus it's a fair call to restore it as long as some sort of oversight is applied. This would include the same note we should place on an admin's talk page whenver we reverse there actions. - brenneman#000000">brenneman {L} 01:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I thought I recall something about prod not being for redirects, but I don't see it on the page nor did I see anything when I skimmed through the page history. Skull Trap is currently a redirect marked for prod. Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion operates similarly (nominations with no objections result in deletion), but it has less traffic & the criteria for keeping redirects is different than with articles. I'd recommend that we leave redirects to Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion. Any other thoughts? -- JLaTondre 19:41, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay, based on no objections, I went ahead and added redirects to the section of things prod is not to be used for. Thanks. -- JLaTondre 03:26, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Our "test run" has been live for a couple of months now. It seems to me that most people think Proposed Deletion is doing its job, and I see it talked about as if it were policy. Would now be a good time to get consensus to make it an actual policy? rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 17:42, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I think we need some sort of tool or possibly addition to AWB to help with the deluge of pages. When I first saw this a couple months ago, the influx of articles to be deleted was managable and acceptable. Now, however, it is a different story. I just deleted about twenty of over 100 or so articles marked red by the toolserver. While a few pages do require admin attention, others just sit there, with few picking up the slack. There's a massive backlog, and it's very difficult to deal with. A possible js monobook extension or addition to AWB would be greatly needed and appreciated, I believe. Is anyone willing or able to create such a tool, or do possibly have to revise the policy? Enough admins patrol AfD and there are enough tools that it isn't as much of a problem, nor with CSD, but I think the level here on ProD is over-the-top. Anyone else think so? - brennemanblack">Mysekurity [m! 22:47, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
I want to bring to notice, the Car dealership article. I removed {{prod}} from the article. User:UtherSRG feels otherwise. Who is going to keep track of all these articles that deserve to exist? I managed to fight for just one. - Ganeshk ( talk) 22:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Is it implied within the policy, and should it be explicitly stated, that it is considered bad form (and maybe even is prohibited) to remove the PROD tag on an article that you have created? I have been PRODing a number of nn and vanity pages recently, only for the people - usually very new users - who have made the page in the first page to remove the tag straight away. In the spirit of WP:IAR, I reinstated the tags, but was what I did strictly against policy, and if so, should it be? Batmanand | Talk 20:21, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
This is the only part of PROD policy that I think needs to be changed. When a new user creator removes the PROD, I think we should consider it a newbie mistake rather than a validly contested PROD. If a new user creates an article and it is PRODed, and the creator is willing to re-PROD, then a re-PROD should be allowed. It is common sense that the person that just wrote the article will want to stay. A new user has no idea about Afd. The new user's vote and comment in Afd is likely to be discounted by regular voters there. The comments can be down right mean. I think it is in the best interest of the new user and Wikipedia to make this change in policy. FloNight talk 21:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
It is explicitly stated that creators are allowed to remove PROD tags and people may not add them back. WP:PROD#What this process is NOT for:
If you want newbies to understand the process you have to tell them. When you prod an article, tell the creator why you're doing it and how the process goes from here.
And I disagree that we should reprod it when a newbie deprods it. Newbies don't understand the process, and that includes not understanding why they need to justify keeping the article. We need to give them the opportunity to learn instead of saying that we only care about the opinions of established editors. Agree with Jesse that if we convince the article creator that it should be deleted, speedy takes over, so there's no reason to reprod. NickelShoe ( Talk) 02:50, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
anyone know of a script to prod cruft at the click of a button? thanks, -- Urthogie 13:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The reason I ask for this script is because on Italian keyboards there is no first bracket symbol. The character map is slow. Thanks, -- Urthogie 14:13, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I have a script that adds a "Tag" button for general-purpose tagging. It prompts you to type some tag(s) (separated by &&), then auto saves with an appropriate edit summary. To use it for PRODing, type "prod|reason..." in the query box. http://wikipedia.quarl.org/scripts/autotag.js — Quarl ( talk) 2006-04-13 07:05Z
That is to say, if after five days nobody has stated any reasons to keep an article, can it be deleted based on the rationale of this policy even if not enough people to establish a consensus want to delete it? — Doug Bell talk 23:42, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I've been looking at them every few days, and about 1 in 10 are worth thinking about. But unless a number of people do this regularly looking for different things--(I check for anything possibly religious or political or ethnic, to prevent using prod for expressing prejudice.) -- the 5 days is much too short, especially with newbies. I suggest ten days -- for all prods. It will get rid of just as many. DGG 03:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
There should be a more visible list of reasons for the prod template. KevinPuj 14:39, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Currently the intro says that "Articles that have been previously proposed for deletion or undeleted, or discussed on AfD, are clearly contested and are not candidates for {{prod}}."
I have tended to assume that only applies to AfDs that resulted in "keep" or "no consensus." Is there a more clear way to express this without being wordy? NickelShoe ( Talk) 23:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
There was recently a prod for the reason "contains erroneous capitalisation." DGG 02:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I suggest adding mention of Template:prod-2 to this policy -- its existence appears to be a little known secret.
I suggest also adding it to
-- A. B. (talk) 13:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
As a prod patroller, I find this template most useful when I agree the article but should be deleted but disagree with or want to elaborate on the reason or want to suggest a post-deletion action to the closing admin. An example of the latter would be delete then redirect... GRBerry 17:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I know things along this line have been discussed before, but I think there is a need for, and fair way to implement, a 'prod like' system for templates. Prod is effectively a 'speedy deletion' criteria... if an article has been marked 'prod' for five days with no objections an admin can delete it without discussion. The same concept has recently been extended to user-pages of people with no 'non user space' edits... again, basically a speedy deletion criteria (user page with no encyclopedia contribs) which includes a pre-notice requirement. There are thousands of templates out there which have been around for months but are not used anywhere... thousands more which are virtual duplicates of other templates and only used on a handful of pages. I'd like to suggest that we expand prod/csd to allow deletion of templates if they have zero active transclusions (either because they were replaced or if they never had any) and no objections to deletion for a month after being tagged. It would give people plenty of time to notice and object, standard 'undelete on request' would apply, et cetera... and it would help to clean out tons of stuff which isn't worth flooding TfD over. -- CBD 13:41, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
There's a big list of unused templates at Special:Unusedtemplates, but looking at it a fair few of those are redirects to templates, so it's not actually as bad as it seems. It would be interesting to see how many of those are actually templates, and not redirects, and of those how many are subst'd only.
I've also just found out that Wikipedia:WikiProject Templates exists, although it doesn't seem to be too active.
I like the idea of self-subst'ing templates, although that would require the coders of mediawiki to implement. A possible quick-and-dirty method would be to have a bot keeping an eye on the recent changes list, and whenever prespecified templates are used it would make an edit to subst them. However, I think that there was a bot that did something similar one time, but it wasn't liked by the community. Anyhow, this isn't really related to PROD, so shouldn't really be discussed here.
I'm not so keen on the suggested requirement for emailing the creator of templates that are put up for PROD, for the following reasons. 1) a lot of people don't provide emails, so they can't be emailed. 2) How do editors prove that they have emailed the creator? 3) A message left on the user's talk page will usually be sufficient; if it isn't, then the user can always request that their template be undeleted, or ask for a copy of the page's wikicode, from an admin. Mike Peel 21:47, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
This has been brought up time and time again, we far too often have templates that are being deleted almost procedurally. They are deprecated/unused, and there is no reason whatsoever to hang on to them. However, we must go through the mess of listing on TFD, waiting 5 days, and closing. As a TFD regular, I can assure you that TFD is *often* backlogged with these never-opposed deletions, and it gets quite tiresome. While I would love to cite WP:IAR and start clearing out CAT:DT (by using CSD G6), I know more than one person would raise a hand and object. I've attempted to get CSD to adopt a criteria, but we couldn't managed to hammer one out that worked 100% of the time (which CSD needs to be), so can we please attempt a PROD for it? ^ demon [omg plz] 00:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
I was skimming the previous nominations tool, and I saw a fair amount of articles that were "Re-{{prod}}ed." What is the justification for being able to re-prod an article? The only step necessary under " How to prevent an article from being deleted" is "Edit the article to remove the Template:Prod. Please note this in your edit summary." Are these re-prods only occuring when the removing user provides no edit summary, when it's the creator of the page (see "Can article creators remove this tag?" above), or is there some other reason a page can be re-proded? (N.B.: Not accusing anyone of any wrong doing, just curious.) E WS23 | (Leave me a message!) 00:47, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I just inserted the parenthetic phrase "even without stating the reason" to the part about not restoring the template no matter why the person removed it, because this is what we determined on the talk page and some people haven't been interpreting the guideline that way. NickelShoe 17:45, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
It looks like the prod data is somewhat askew. Unfortunately, that time actually comes from the wikipedia database itself ( categorylinks.cl_timestamp), it's not something I calculate or have control over. I'm trying to find out what happened from one of the wikimedia admins (especially to make sure that it doesn't happen again), but I don't know what to do beyond that. -- Interiot 15:43, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Does this mean that the Prod process is dead as long as some vandal remembers to hit the Prod template every few days? -- Measure 12:10, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
In practice, prod actually seems to be useful in cases that aren't uncontroversial, as a wake-up call for the editor before people start voting against it in AfD. I've seen a couple of cases where an article which was deprodded by the creator was reprodded by someone who found prod to be a more forgiving method of deletion than AfD. Swiftcover and Best Friends...Different Personalities, specifically.
I can totally see this, particularly on newly created articles. Even though prod is supposedly for uncontroversial deletions, it works well for cases of notability and verification by giving a deadline instead of asking people to vote on something based on their guess that it isn't verifiable or notable simply because they don't know about it or find it on Google. Does this make sense? It seems that prod is effective for this, but this wasn't its goal, and maybe it should be tweaked to emphasize this aspect a little more? Notability is technically speediable if no claim is made to it, but sticking it on prod gives someone a few days to fix that (And if prod stays, I'd be in favor of despeedying that criterion to give articles a chance without forcing it to go through AfD). Instead of just being a streamlined deletion, it seems to work for improving articles. If this gets rid of a few articles that had the possibility of expansion and clearer claims to notability, they'll be abandoned stubs without much information in the first place, so the loss isn't that great. Thoughts? NickelShoe 18:20, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if we already do this, but I suggest we advertise proposed deletion on uncontroversial votes on AfD. PROD is not realising its full benefit due to many people who don't yet know about it. Maybe we could have a template that says something like this:
Deco 19:54, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
Looking at the Proposed Deletion: previous nominations I notice a large number of articles marked as "re{{prod}}ed"—all at 2006/02/25 14:31. Taking a random sample of these articles I noticed that, at least the ones that I looked at, were marked with a prod tag once, and the tag has not been removed. Is this a bug in the system? JeremyA 21:14, 25 February 2006 (UTC)
I found 4 (so far) articles that had been tagged with PROD twice. I've removed them and notified the editors that adding it a second time is not supposed to be done. That's a minor thing until people get a better idea of how it's supposed to work. However, this followed by this is probably not a good idea. As now you have the orphan Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Dinosaurs and Ethics. CambridgeBayWeather (Talk) 00:49, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
Believe it or not, I've encountered the same thing and moved the articles to AfD. (I just felt it was unnecessary on Lulu Lemon by the spirit of the guideline because the deprod wasn't actually intended as an objection to deletion.) Probably around 4 on my part as well. As far as I can tell, about half the time people just don't check the page history, and the other half they don't realize they aren't supposed to reprod. (If people notified the article creators, they'd be forced to check the page history...) NickelShoe 01:52, 26 February 2006 (UTC)
I {{ prod}}ded Spotscouter on February 21 as "advertising and protologism". The tag survived for more than five days. I have read elsewhere that there's some sort of admin backlog on prod deletions, which is fine. However, a little while ago Rory096 blanked the page and turned it into a redirect to Spotscout (which I had also {{ prod}}ed at the same time, but was turned into a full AfD, where it is about to be killed off thanks to a unanimous consensus to delete). What is the next step in the process in this case? I have no reason to believe that any admin intentionally refused to delete Spotscouter, and it's going to die anyway as soon as some admin closes the Spotscout AfD, so I have no idea why Rory096's made that edit, and see no reason why it shouldn't be deleted now. Does this qualify as a speedy delete? -- Aaron 05:22, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I see some very obvious speedy candidates being prodded. It must be mentioned somewhere that people can add a speedy tag to a prod-ded article or that an admin can speedy del a prodded one if it meets CSD criteria, just as in AFD. -- Gurubrahma 13:29, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I speedied a prodded article just last night, and found myself unsure of the protocol. Should I have removed the prod tag when I added the speedy tag, or should I have left both on? I chose the latter, but mainly because I was unsure. Advice welcome. · rodii · 15:51, 27 February 2006 (UTC)
I've changed quite a few speedy tags to prod, but wouldn't feel comfortable doing the reverse.
So, even if it's so obviously a speedy that it should never has been tagged, it's a low-cost "rule" that doesn't have many drawbacks. In fact, do we have a system for seeing anything that gets deleted prior to it's five days? That was anything that was (for example) clearly libelous that got deleted early would set off an "alarm" and get examined and everyone would say "good job". Conversly, if we see lots of things going early, we either tune up people to what to put prod on or tune up our admins about deleting early.
So, long story short, I don't see any advantage right now to deleting a pink panda hoaxes early.
brenneman {T} {L} 05:58, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
The only problem I see with this is that if someone removes PROD, it goes to AFD and everyone there starts yelling, why bring it here? why not speedy?? and all that. :) but I guess it is okay, especially given that PROD is still in test stage. We can refine it when we are ready for the roll out. -- Gurubrahma 11:27, 4 March 2006 (UTC)
I think that displaying the username of the nominator would make it easier to identify inappropriate or bad-faith nominations. -- Kjkolb 07:01, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
I prodded some articles 7 days ago. They are still alive but they don't show up in the toolserver's current list (I thought they should turn red indicating they can be deleted). For example ( Nobelcom). Is this a bug in the toolserver or are the articles listed somewhere in an admin backlog file? Thatcher131 18:52, 1 March 2006 (UTC)
When a page is deleted through WP:PROD the deletion summary typically says " WP:PROD - listed for 5 or more days without being contested". This means that the reason for the article being submitted to PROD in the first place is deleted with the article. This means that anyone interested has no idea on what grounds the article has been deleted. Would it be possible to require that all deletion summaries include the original reason for submission to PROD? (See WP:HD for the discussion that brought this up) Thanks. -- Cherry blossom tree 15:44, 3 March 2006 (UTC)
I created a template called Template:Polite-prod, similiar to Template:polite-afd, to put on user's talk pages when prodding an article. Instead of directing them to the Afd talk page, it directs them to the article talk page and the WP:PROD guidelines page. I hopeI did a good thing, this was my first template. Anyway, if you think it might be useful, should it be mentioned on the main page? Thanks. Thatcher131 04:04, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
In response to NickelShoe's thought above, I've taken the liberty to create {{ PRODNote}} (and, incidentally, {{ AFDNote}}) for notifying users about deletions proposed by someone else. Sandstein 06:13, 2 April 2006 (UTC)
It's possible to pre-specify a reason for deletion in a URL: [{{fullurle:{{NAMESPACEE}}:{{PAGENAMEE}}|action=delete&wpReason=PROD:{{{1}}}}} delete] This would allow the PROD reason to be automatically filled into reason for deletion box, if people use the link to delete the page. This would be a Good Thing. However, there's a problem. PROD reasons often include a spaces, and sometimes include wikilinks. Both of these things screw up the URL above. What's needed is a way to urlencode the arbitrary stuff in the PROD reason. I don't know of a way to do that in MediaWiki; hopefully someone reading this does, because this would be a really nice feature to have... JesseW, the juggling janitor 06:41, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I just afd'd an article, then saw at the top of the page that perhaps I should have used this process. I suggest that someone who understands this proposal should update the afd1 template to let people know that this alternative exists. Regards, Ben Aveling 13:08, 7 March 2006 (UTC)
I have yet to have an article that I've prod tagged actually go as prod (out of at least 3 or 4), and that is because just one person who is either unaware of or uninterested in reading WP article guidelines can object and thus send the article to AfD, where it will probably be deleted. So what prod is doing is adding another step to the process, because there's no qualification for removal required. MSJapan 17:17, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
It seems to me that it's a pretty good solution. If you think an article would be a nolo contendere delete at AfD, this is the one to use. If you think an article should be speediable but doesn't quite fit the stringent CSDs, this is the one to use. If it doesn't get deleted and it still looks deletable to you, there's nothing to stop you listing on AfD. What is there to lose? -- Tony Sidaway 23:38, 9 March 2006 (UTC)
The prod seems to be working very well (beter than I expected) and I'm impressed by the history reports. There's one problem and I don't know who to tell. The history log doesn't filter by time and it's getting too long. It takes a long time for my browser to display it because it's so long. Can someone add a time filter so users can control what range of dates it displays? RJFJR 18:40, 10 March 2006 (UTC)
User:NATEamx currently appears on the Proposed Deletion log -- even though I can't find any evidence of a {{prod}} tag on his user page. I note that his page formerly included a template ( Template:User MAX (band)) which had been subjected to the PROD tag, but I have removed PROD from that template because PROD is not supposed to be used for anything outside the main space. In other words, I don't know how it is that User:NATEamx appears on the deletion log, and at any rate, he shouldn't. -- Metropolitan90 07:59, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
Is this idea so crazy that no one, AFAICS, has suggested it before? -- Perfecto 16:07, 11 March 2006 (UTC)
The lag is currently 14 hours. Who/how do we tell? RJFJR 15:58, 12 March 2006 (UTC)
The tool server pages seem to be using external or tool server links, so there's no quick way of seeing which >>5 days PROD'd articles have already been deleted (redlink) and which haven't. If admins are to be encouraged to close PROD issues there should be a simple one stop shop which lists the pages which have been PROD'd for greater than 5 days and not yet been dealt with by an admin (either deleted or had the PROD tag removed). If there is such a list, please tell me where :) -- kingboyk 07:36, 13 March 2006 (UTC)
I think this proposed deletion process is a success. It says on WP:PROP, this process goes live for a test run in one week (Feb 4th). That's nearly six weeks ago - is its test run over yet? Can we agree on its graduating from a proposal? Can we remove {{ proposed}}? -- RobertG ♬ talk 16:56, 15 March 2006 (UTC)
Is there any reason why I shouldn't use {{subst:prod}} ? The forn {{
prod|...}}
does not work if a diff is mentioned in the reason, probably because of the = character in the URL. See
User:Jitse Niesen/sandbox for an example. --
Jitse Niesen (
talk) 07:32, 16 March 2006 (UTC)
I prodded a page ( Bulge of Africa) on Feb. 24, and it was (I thought) deleted a few days later. See [ [1]] for the log. However, the page is still there, and the history doesn't show my edit, nor indeed any edits between Feb. 2 and my re-prodding of it tonight. (I re-prodded because I thought I was losing my mind, then thought to check "What links here" and found the log entry.) When I click on the "Time nominated" link in the log, I get a message that says The database did not find the text of a page that it should have found, named "Bulge of Africa (Diff: 37878939, 41037120)". I'm really confused by this. Can anyone explain what's going on? Was the edit where I prodded the page deleted? · rodii · 04:03, 27 March 2006 (UTC)
Apologies to all the above. I misinterpreted the new prod rules. When an article is prodded and you disagree with the prod, you remove the prod notice. This article was prodded and deleted. I restored it (as I believed it was perfectly expandable and useful) and removed the prod notice, as per the prod instructions. The easiest way to do that was simply to restore the version immediately prior to the addition of the prod notice (perhaps I should have restored the prod, then removed it, so it was laziness on my part). I'm not quite clear what was wrong with that other than laziness, but it seems it was wrong, so I apologise. Grutness... wha? 00:40, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
<-- Speaking only for the proper application of prod I'd hesitate to restore something deleted without placing it up for AfD. This comes down to the "Administrator/Morlock" boundry again: most people couldn't simply restore as a way of objecting to a prod, thus I'm hesitant with regards to administrators doing so. DRV does a pseudo-automatic restore of prodded material as well. Thus it's a fair call to restore it as long as some sort of oversight is applied. This would include the same note we should place on an admin's talk page whenver we reverse there actions. - brenneman#000000">brenneman {L} 01:23, 28 March 2006 (UTC)
I thought I recall something about prod not being for redirects, but I don't see it on the page nor did I see anything when I skimmed through the page history. Skull Trap is currently a redirect marked for prod. Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion operates similarly (nominations with no objections result in deletion), but it has less traffic & the criteria for keeping redirects is different than with articles. I'd recommend that we leave redirects to Wikipedia:Redirects for deletion. Any other thoughts? -- JLaTondre 19:41, 1 April 2006 (UTC)
Okay, based on no objections, I went ahead and added redirects to the section of things prod is not to be used for. Thanks. -- JLaTondre 03:26, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
Our "test run" has been live for a couple of months now. It seems to me that most people think Proposed Deletion is doing its job, and I see it talked about as if it were policy. Would now be a good time to get consensus to make it an actual policy? rspeer / ɹəədsɹ 17:42, 4 April 2006 (UTC)
I think we need some sort of tool or possibly addition to AWB to help with the deluge of pages. When I first saw this a couple months ago, the influx of articles to be deleted was managable and acceptable. Now, however, it is a different story. I just deleted about twenty of over 100 or so articles marked red by the toolserver. While a few pages do require admin attention, others just sit there, with few picking up the slack. There's a massive backlog, and it's very difficult to deal with. A possible js monobook extension or addition to AWB would be greatly needed and appreciated, I believe. Is anyone willing or able to create such a tool, or do possibly have to revise the policy? Enough admins patrol AfD and there are enough tools that it isn't as much of a problem, nor with CSD, but I think the level here on ProD is over-the-top. Anyone else think so? - brennemanblack">Mysekurity [m! 22:47, 5 April 2006 (UTC)
I want to bring to notice, the Car dealership article. I removed {{prod}} from the article. User:UtherSRG feels otherwise. Who is going to keep track of all these articles that deserve to exist? I managed to fight for just one. - Ganeshk ( talk) 22:06, 6 April 2006 (UTC)
Is it implied within the policy, and should it be explicitly stated, that it is considered bad form (and maybe even is prohibited) to remove the PROD tag on an article that you have created? I have been PRODing a number of nn and vanity pages recently, only for the people - usually very new users - who have made the page in the first page to remove the tag straight away. In the spirit of WP:IAR, I reinstated the tags, but was what I did strictly against policy, and if so, should it be? Batmanand | Talk 20:21, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
This is the only part of PROD policy that I think needs to be changed. When a new user creator removes the PROD, I think we should consider it a newbie mistake rather than a validly contested PROD. If a new user creates an article and it is PRODed, and the creator is willing to re-PROD, then a re-PROD should be allowed. It is common sense that the person that just wrote the article will want to stay. A new user has no idea about Afd. The new user's vote and comment in Afd is likely to be discounted by regular voters there. The comments can be down right mean. I think it is in the best interest of the new user and Wikipedia to make this change in policy. FloNight talk 21:27, 8 April 2006 (UTC)
It is explicitly stated that creators are allowed to remove PROD tags and people may not add them back. WP:PROD#What this process is NOT for:
If you want newbies to understand the process you have to tell them. When you prod an article, tell the creator why you're doing it and how the process goes from here.
And I disagree that we should reprod it when a newbie deprods it. Newbies don't understand the process, and that includes not understanding why they need to justify keeping the article. We need to give them the opportunity to learn instead of saying that we only care about the opinions of established editors. Agree with Jesse that if we convince the article creator that it should be deleted, speedy takes over, so there's no reason to reprod. NickelShoe ( Talk) 02:50, 10 April 2006 (UTC)
anyone know of a script to prod cruft at the click of a button? thanks, -- Urthogie 13:18, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
The reason I ask for this script is because on Italian keyboards there is no first bracket symbol. The character map is slow. Thanks, -- Urthogie 14:13, 11 April 2006 (UTC)
I have a script that adds a "Tag" button for general-purpose tagging. It prompts you to type some tag(s) (separated by &&), then auto saves with an appropriate edit summary. To use it for PRODing, type "prod|reason..." in the query box. http://wikipedia.quarl.org/scripts/autotag.js — Quarl ( talk) 2006-04-13 07:05Z
That is to say, if after five days nobody has stated any reasons to keep an article, can it be deleted based on the rationale of this policy even if not enough people to establish a consensus want to delete it? — Doug Bell talk 23:42, 13 December 2006 (UTC)
I've been looking at them every few days, and about 1 in 10 are worth thinking about. But unless a number of people do this regularly looking for different things--(I check for anything possibly religious or political or ethnic, to prevent using prod for expressing prejudice.) -- the 5 days is much too short, especially with newbies. I suggest ten days -- for all prods. It will get rid of just as many. DGG 03:26, 16 December 2006 (UTC)
There should be a more visible list of reasons for the prod template. KevinPuj 14:39, 17 December 2006 (UTC)
Currently the intro says that "Articles that have been previously proposed for deletion or undeleted, or discussed on AfD, are clearly contested and are not candidates for {{prod}}."
I have tended to assume that only applies to AfDs that resulted in "keep" or "no consensus." Is there a more clear way to express this without being wordy? NickelShoe ( Talk) 23:57, 11 January 2007 (UTC)
There was recently a prod for the reason "contains erroneous capitalisation." DGG 02:09, 14 January 2007 (UTC)
I suggest adding mention of Template:prod-2 to this policy -- its existence appears to be a little known secret.
I suggest also adding it to
-- A. B. (talk) 13:55, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
As a prod patroller, I find this template most useful when I agree the article but should be deleted but disagree with or want to elaborate on the reason or want to suggest a post-deletion action to the closing admin. An example of the latter would be delete then redirect... GRBerry 17:59, 16 January 2007 (UTC)
I know things along this line have been discussed before, but I think there is a need for, and fair way to implement, a 'prod like' system for templates. Prod is effectively a 'speedy deletion' criteria... if an article has been marked 'prod' for five days with no objections an admin can delete it without discussion. The same concept has recently been extended to user-pages of people with no 'non user space' edits... again, basically a speedy deletion criteria (user page with no encyclopedia contribs) which includes a pre-notice requirement. There are thousands of templates out there which have been around for months but are not used anywhere... thousands more which are virtual duplicates of other templates and only used on a handful of pages. I'd like to suggest that we expand prod/csd to allow deletion of templates if they have zero active transclusions (either because they were replaced or if they never had any) and no objections to deletion for a month after being tagged. It would give people plenty of time to notice and object, standard 'undelete on request' would apply, et cetera... and it would help to clean out tons of stuff which isn't worth flooding TfD over. -- CBD 13:41, 1 February 2007 (UTC)
There's a big list of unused templates at Special:Unusedtemplates, but looking at it a fair few of those are redirects to templates, so it's not actually as bad as it seems. It would be interesting to see how many of those are actually templates, and not redirects, and of those how many are subst'd only.
I've also just found out that Wikipedia:WikiProject Templates exists, although it doesn't seem to be too active.
I like the idea of self-subst'ing templates, although that would require the coders of mediawiki to implement. A possible quick-and-dirty method would be to have a bot keeping an eye on the recent changes list, and whenever prespecified templates are used it would make an edit to subst them. However, I think that there was a bot that did something similar one time, but it wasn't liked by the community. Anyhow, this isn't really related to PROD, so shouldn't really be discussed here.
I'm not so keen on the suggested requirement for emailing the creator of templates that are put up for PROD, for the following reasons. 1) a lot of people don't provide emails, so they can't be emailed. 2) How do editors prove that they have emailed the creator? 3) A message left on the user's talk page will usually be sufficient; if it isn't, then the user can always request that their template be undeleted, or ask for a copy of the page's wikicode, from an admin. Mike Peel 21:47, 3 February 2007 (UTC)
This has been brought up time and time again, we far too often have templates that are being deleted almost procedurally. They are deprecated/unused, and there is no reason whatsoever to hang on to them. However, we must go through the mess of listing on TFD, waiting 5 days, and closing. As a TFD regular, I can assure you that TFD is *often* backlogged with these never-opposed deletions, and it gets quite tiresome. While I would love to cite WP:IAR and start clearing out CAT:DT (by using CSD G6), I know more than one person would raise a hand and object. I've attempted to get CSD to adopt a criteria, but we couldn't managed to hammer one out that worked 100% of the time (which CSD needs to be), so can we please attempt a PROD for it? ^ demon [omg plz] 00:45, 17 April 2007 (UTC)