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How should the notability of solar eclipses and lunar eclipses be decided? Ovinus ( talk) 21:05, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
There is also the question of the redirect target:
I am opening this RfC after a back-and-forth at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Solar eclipse of April 23, 2191. For the astronomically uninitiated: solar and lunar eclipses occur in predictable cycles known as Saros cycles or series, which each contain a set of about 70 eclipses in regular intervals. With technological and scientific advances in the last few centuries, solar and lunar eclipses may be predicted millennia into the future and with sub-second accuracy. In other words, that these eclipses will happen as described is not under question. Potentially applicable policies include WP:NOTDATABASE and WP:CRYSTAL. There are other potential criteria that I haven't put in the options, because there's already quite a few, but perhaps a discussion will come up with good ones. Also note that per WP:LOCALCON, it's possible that Options 1 through 3 are not immediately applicable without a wider discussion. Ovinus ( talk) 21:05, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
Individual items from a predetermined list or a systematic pattern of names, pre-assigned to future events or discoveries, are not suitable article topics, if only generic information is known about the item.(emphasis dropped) CBALL #1 also applies to future events, with NEVENT deferring to CBALL. As for the fate of the non-notable articles, recommend B, then A for eclipses too far in the future or in the past to have a list by century, then C. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 12:07, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
Every time there's a mass casualty event, an article gets created for it. This has resulted in massive lists of events at categories including (but not limited to):
Most of these articles are, unsurprisingly, biased toward WP:RECENT events and events in the western world. Many of them (thousands if not more) don't meet the criteria listed for event notability or have sustained coverage beyond the time of their occurrence. A large portion of these events seem that they would be better suited for a list article, such as those at List of explosions and List of building or structure fires. Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 14:59, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
up-to-date information on breaking news events, vetted and counter-vetted by enthusiastic volunteer editors, is something that no other encyclopedia can offer. So, the solution is clear. Delete articles on mass casualty events that do not comply with the GNG and keep those that comply with the GNG. Those concerned about recentism can do as I do, and write and expand articles like 1986 San Francisco fireworks disaster and 1973 Miami Beach firebombing and Timeline of violent incidents at the United States Capitol and 2015 Waco shootout. The encyclopedia is better off with such articles than without them. Cullen328 ( talk) 06:15, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
of lasting, historical significancebecause they are studied and analyzed for patterns and causes, and the study of such events informs efforts to prevent or reduce the incidence of such tragedies. When you make an assertion like
a large number of Wikipedia's mass casualty articles don't comply with notability criteria, I think that it is incumbent on you to list a representative sample of such articles that you personally think are not notable, so that we can test the accuracy of your premise. I listed four articles that I have worked on. Do you think that any of those should be deleted, Thebiguglyalien? Will you provide a brief list of some representative mass casualty articles that you really, really think ought to be deleted? Cullen328 ( talk) 07:06, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
studied and analyzed for patterns and causes, then there will be reliable sources that we can use to write the article. We are not in the position to create an article for the event to be studied. — HTGS ( talk) 21:53, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
What’s the point of NEVENT? If an event happens, and the details are all V by RS, why does it need to have a lasting impact? It’s not like there are space concerns… Events are commonly deleted at AfD even though all the information is true and will probably be helpful to someone. BhamBoi ( talk) 16:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Moved to WP:VPM
Based on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2022 Philadelphia shooting, I would like to open a broader discussion on what is consensus for inclusion of these sorts of subjects going forward. Currently the guidelines (such as for WP:EVENT and WP:NOTNEWS) are not clear enough and need updating in my opinion, which is why discussions are often split and no consensus was the result in that case. As I wrote in that AFD, WP:NCRIME in particular is very generic currently and offers minimal help, but crimes are certainly subjects of encyclopedic interest so this should be clarified.
My suggestion was that we define a clearer threshold and then merge articles below it to appropriate list or summary pages, and we could additionally move articles which no longer qualify here to Wikinews with cross-wiki links to preserve them. As long as the material lives somewhere on Wiki, that would be sufficient in my opinion and would have the positive side effects of driving more activity to Wikinews and improving cross-project work.
Not sure a formal RFC is needed at this point, but just want to invite any comments from others. Thoughts? - Indefensible ( talk) 16:22, 6 October 2023 (UTC)
This page has archives. Sections older than 90 days may be automatically archived by Lowercase sigmabot III when more than 5 sections are present. |
How should the notability of solar eclipses and lunar eclipses be decided? Ovinus ( talk) 21:05, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
There is also the question of the redirect target:
I am opening this RfC after a back-and-forth at Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Solar eclipse of April 23, 2191. For the astronomically uninitiated: solar and lunar eclipses occur in predictable cycles known as Saros cycles or series, which each contain a set of about 70 eclipses in regular intervals. With technological and scientific advances in the last few centuries, solar and lunar eclipses may be predicted millennia into the future and with sub-second accuracy. In other words, that these eclipses will happen as described is not under question. Potentially applicable policies include WP:NOTDATABASE and WP:CRYSTAL. There are other potential criteria that I haven't put in the options, because there's already quite a few, but perhaps a discussion will come up with good ones. Also note that per WP:LOCALCON, it's possible that Options 1 through 3 are not immediately applicable without a wider discussion. Ovinus ( talk) 21:05, 3 July 2022 (UTC)
Individual items from a predetermined list or a systematic pattern of names, pre-assigned to future events or discoveries, are not suitable article topics, if only generic information is known about the item.(emphasis dropped) CBALL #1 also applies to future events, with NEVENT deferring to CBALL. As for the fate of the non-notable articles, recommend B, then A for eclipses too far in the future or in the past to have a list by century, then C. – LaundryPizza03 ( d c̄) 12:07, 11 July 2022 (UTC)
Every time there's a mass casualty event, an article gets created for it. This has resulted in massive lists of events at categories including (but not limited to):
Most of these articles are, unsurprisingly, biased toward WP:RECENT events and events in the western world. Many of them (thousands if not more) don't meet the criteria listed for event notability or have sustained coverage beyond the time of their occurrence. A large portion of these events seem that they would be better suited for a list article, such as those at List of explosions and List of building or structure fires. Thebiguglyalien ( talk) 14:59, 16 April 2023 (UTC)
up-to-date information on breaking news events, vetted and counter-vetted by enthusiastic volunteer editors, is something that no other encyclopedia can offer. So, the solution is clear. Delete articles on mass casualty events that do not comply with the GNG and keep those that comply with the GNG. Those concerned about recentism can do as I do, and write and expand articles like 1986 San Francisco fireworks disaster and 1973 Miami Beach firebombing and Timeline of violent incidents at the United States Capitol and 2015 Waco shootout. The encyclopedia is better off with such articles than without them. Cullen328 ( talk) 06:15, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
of lasting, historical significancebecause they are studied and analyzed for patterns and causes, and the study of such events informs efforts to prevent or reduce the incidence of such tragedies. When you make an assertion like
a large number of Wikipedia's mass casualty articles don't comply with notability criteria, I think that it is incumbent on you to list a representative sample of such articles that you personally think are not notable, so that we can test the accuracy of your premise. I listed four articles that I have worked on. Do you think that any of those should be deleted, Thebiguglyalien? Will you provide a brief list of some representative mass casualty articles that you really, really think ought to be deleted? Cullen328 ( talk) 07:06, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
studied and analyzed for patterns and causes, then there will be reliable sources that we can use to write the article. We are not in the position to create an article for the event to be studied. — HTGS ( talk) 21:53, 17 May 2023 (UTC)
What’s the point of NEVENT? If an event happens, and the details are all V by RS, why does it need to have a lasting impact? It’s not like there are space concerns… Events are commonly deleted at AfD even though all the information is true and will probably be helpful to someone. BhamBoi ( talk) 16:27, 12 May 2023 (UTC)
Moved to WP:VPM
Based on Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/2022 Philadelphia shooting, I would like to open a broader discussion on what is consensus for inclusion of these sorts of subjects going forward. Currently the guidelines (such as for WP:EVENT and WP:NOTNEWS) are not clear enough and need updating in my opinion, which is why discussions are often split and no consensus was the result in that case. As I wrote in that AFD, WP:NCRIME in particular is very generic currently and offers minimal help, but crimes are certainly subjects of encyclopedic interest so this should be clarified.
My suggestion was that we define a clearer threshold and then merge articles below it to appropriate list or summary pages, and we could additionally move articles which no longer qualify here to Wikinews with cross-wiki links to preserve them. As long as the material lives somewhere on Wiki, that would be sufficient in my opinion and would have the positive side effects of driving more activity to Wikinews and improving cross-project work.
Not sure a formal RFC is needed at this point, but just want to invite any comments from others. Thoughts? - Indefensible ( talk) 16:22, 6 October 2023 (UTC)