This is an
archive of past discussions for the period 1 January 2008–30 September 2008. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
How about adding a line to the intro regarding task forces? Such as: "Task forces, workgroups, and other project subpages, should normally be referred to the parent project rather than nominating for deletion. If material is so offensive or inappropriate that it cannot remain consider fixing it."-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 18:16, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
It might be useful to if a note about Portals were posted at: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Portals#Portals_for_deletion_at_MfD, a good practice. Currently, I have to do that whenever I see one posted. If I miss one, it never makes the Project Portals list, which has some historical value to Project participants as well.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 21:42, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
(I decided I was getting to far afield on all the changes and ought to start a new section)
The MFD Template link to the discussion seems to work but is redlinked. I've seen discussion of this on {{ AFD}}'s talk pages as a problem there too previously. Looking into this also got me to noticing that AFD has converted to the white banner with a red sidebar style of template (and also seems to have fixed the redlink issue). {{ rfd}} has as well. {{ ifd}} is a little different - I kind of like the more urgent look to theirs. But I think red borders are reserved for pretty serious templates. {{ cfd}}, {{ sfd}}, and {{ mfd}} are looking a little long in the tooth and only {{ mfd}} appears to be broken.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 04:53, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I've seen several nominations of userboxes on here lately. Perhaps it's time we resurrect WP:TFDU? >Radiant< 23:28, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Consider contributing in this RFC:
Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Policies/Userbox content. -
Mtmelendez (
Talk) 01:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
I apologize for continuously tinkering with the format or policies here, but I wanted to generate more discussion about completely overhauling the look and feel of this page to make it more user-friendly and make the steps for deletion more obvious, especially regarding what is and what is not appropriate to nominate. I would really appreciate feedback on this: Please feel free to edit this page as you see fit, and understand it is not a final draft in any way (as a matter of fact I still have "notes to self" on the proposal). See here for my proposal. -- 12 Noon 2¢ 03:10, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
1) Why do we link the date in the {{ oldmfd}} template?
2) When you close an MFD in a talk namespace the link won't work. E.g. I noticed that User:Hmwith closed a couple of MFDs on subpages of article talk pages: Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Talk:Bob_Ezrin/Comments and Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Talk:Anthony_Moore/Comments, but hadn't finished the closing by removing the MfD tags so I did it and left {{ oldmfd}} tags but they seem to be set up to link to an discussion page for the basic namespace page - these in fact have no basic namespace page, since they're subpages of talkspace pages, but even if they did, if the page being nominated is itself in talkspace the reference won't work.
Thoughts?-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 00:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
--edit conflict
Hello, I was browsing the intertubes for some information on Martial arts. I generally consider Wikipedia a pretty good jumping off point for information, and visit the site a lot. I haven't really contributed much, I made an edit today, but am pretty familiar with Wikipedia's internal workings, which is why this page: [ [6]] concerned me. I see I have to have an account to get it taken off Wikipedia (or considered to be removed) but I don't want to create an account, so I was hoping someone with more experience on these matters could help out. The page in question is some kind of biography of a Wikipedia editor but it is clearly masquerading as an encyclopedia article and a blatant piece of self-promotion, as the entire user space of this editor seems to be, but I only care about this "article" because it could so easily be mistaken for genuine encyclopedia content when in reality it is just some person promoting themselves and using Wikipedia to do it. Thanks for taking the time to read and react. 24.14.119.135 ( talk) 18:00, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Occasionally, at WP:MFD, someone tries to delete a user page which contains minimal content and an external link. For example, suppose I had nothing on my user page but the following:
Somebody might try to have that deleted on the ground that 100% of it was unrelated to Wikipedia. However, that would be a misinterpretation of the user page policy, since the page would have only one sentence and a single link, which is far from "substantial" unrelated content.
I would like to add something like the following under "Prerequisites":
If anyone can think of a better phrasing, please let me know. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 01:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
WP:UP#NOT (a Guideline) says "Generally, you should avoid substantial content on your user page that is unrelated to Wikipedia." It then goes on to give examples and uses terms like "excessive amounts of x". None of this implies a percentage. I don't think we need to add anything. More importantly it's advisory "Generally you should avoid . . . " I think it's more important to impress upon editors that they need to read WP:UP before they nominate someone's userpage.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 04:40, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Tlatosmd/Adult-child sex is up to 66K, should it be fully transcluded, or only just a link to the MfD discussion? MBisanz talk 05:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
The Anime and Manga Portal has recently had an overhaul to clean things up and stream line some stuff. In doing so, there are now 232 pages that need to be deleted for housekeeping purposes. Since there isn't any controversy, what would be the best way to go about doing the deletions? AnmaFinotera ( talk) 20:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Several portals relating to musical acts are currently being considered for deletion in the same nomination. Unfortunately, I don't think it makes a great deal of sense to see them all nominated and considered in this way. I have stated as much there, and at least one other editor has agreed with me. Unfortunately, I have no clue of the procedures of closing such a possibly faulty group nomination. Anyone out there have any ideas? John Carter ( talk) 23:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I just added an Old Business marker, hope nobody minds.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 20:44, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I think it would be helpful if we added {{ ln}} to {{ mfd2}} so that the talk page and logs would show for pages nominated. This would help among other things with ease of tagging with {{ oldmfd}} when closing keeps. Only complication that I'm sure I can't handle is that the code would have to switch to {{ lnt}} for talk page nominations. TfD uses {{ lt}} and WP:AFD uses {{ la}}, I think and it seems quite helpful.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 03:56, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
According to policy, proposals that are "disruptive" can be deleted. It is worth asking, how do we make that determination? Is it based on some inherent aspect of the page? Or do we measure disruptiveness by people's reactions to it? That is, if people behavior disruptively in their support or opposition to a policy, is that prima facie evidence that the policy itself is disruptive? One might argue that this is a practically useful and easily-measurable criterion, and thus should be adopted. The pitfall would be if there were a proposal whose retention were desirable, but its proponents or opponents happened to be disruptive in their conduct in reference to that proposal.
Wordnet defines "disruptive" as "characterized by unrest or disorder or insubordination." Is it accurate to say that a proposal itself, then, is disruptive; or would it be more accurate to simply say that someone's behavior in reference to that proposal was disruptive, without making a judgment on the page itself? 129.174.2.205 ( talk) 00:13, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Removed entirely. It was a loophole. -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 19:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
This MfD, Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/School related user templates, was closed by a non-admin. As such, all 700+ templates still have their deletion templates, and the edits made by the nominator falsely claiming all of those templates had been replaced by her creation. Can an admin go through through and fix these two issues? AnmaFinotera ( talk) 17:33, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Language like "not a good idea" or "Is Frowned Upon" is apparently too wishy-washy. People will just read the requirement, and then go ahead and just do it anyway " damnit!".
So to fix that, I'll just harden the language, damnit, because it really is important that we don't have discussions about closing discussions about closing discussions, etc... ad infinum.
And if it ever happens again, I'll just kick their ass :-P (obscure reference. ;-) ) -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 19:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC) urk, who deleted that reference? I'll request undeletion <sigh>
I agree, all this wishy-washy language just leaves room for a temporary majority to do as it pleases (after all, it's not prohibited; just "frowned upon") while bashing someone else over the head if he violates it in a way they don't like ("WTF? We told you this was frowned upon.") Better just to live under the rule of law than in this chaotic environment. Obuibo Mbstpo ( talk) 17:55, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
(dedent) There is compelling reason. The only grounds for deleting a proposal which is under discussion would be that it is disruptive. Under standard deliberative process, the motion would be Objection to Consideration of the Question and, we might note, that motion is out of order if made after debate has begun. The reason is that debating over whether or not to debate, when you are already debating, solves nothing and only adds more opportunity for disagreement. Hence an MfD for a proposal which is under discussion should be speedy closed. If the discussion is truly disruptive, it could be argued, it should be immediately deleted by administrative action, but this community does not do that. So MfD is utterly and totally inappropriate when discussion is underway. The proper place to discuss the proposal is on the proposal pages, not somewhere else. If there is a problem, it would properly be taken to AN/I, not to MfD. "I have not seen any compelling need" is not an argument at all about the text, it is merely a personal statement of incapacity and makes no argument for keeping the language which was there. Is the replacement language harmful? If not, then why is it being opposed? It is actually more accurate about present practice, and I could cite at least one example and probably more with a little research.-- Abd ( talk) 06:04, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Altered prerequisite text, as it was too weak. -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 19:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Rather than edit war, would anyone like to discuss the proposed hardening of language? There was also a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Miscellany_for_deletion#Hardening_the_language. Larry E. Jordan ( talk) 05:21, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Done-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 22:17, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I just discovered that this may have been discussed elsewhere. Given that this it the Talk page for the project subpage actually being edited, it might be more appropriate here, but, if not, then there should be a link here, so that future generations may not be misled as I may have been. I have to do that sleep thing, the kids wake up early and are singularly unimpressed by my protestations that I was up late. And it is already insanely late. (This comment may be removed after a brief lapse) -- Abd ( talk) 05:57, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I wanted to just drop a note to say how convenient the instructions were for listing a page for deletion. It was very easy to follow. Someone should do the same sort of set-up on AfD. :) - Arcayne (cast a spell) 03:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I've proposed a new section in the essay WP:ATA, which will apply specifically to MfD discussions. See Wikipedia_talk:Arguments_to_avoid_in_deletion_discussions#It.27s_useless. Walton One 14:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I recently stumbled, almost by accident, upon Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:AndyJones/Triceratops in popular culture. Without commenting on the MfD itself, shouldn't there be some sort of rule that if you MfD something in userspace you leave a message for the user whose space it is in (in this case, me)? Perhaps we could get a bot to deal with it, to save it from being a responsibility of the nominator? AndyJones ( talk) 10:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Noticed also the Afd's where not notifying the creator of the article. Example: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Andrew_Baron_(2nd_nomination) , started by User_talk:LoopZilla no sign of notification. Example2: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Nathan_Hale_(colonel), started by User_talk:Marc29th same. SunCreator ( talk) 18:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I've been doing a lot of moving closed discussions to the closed section, archiving closed days, and most exciting of all . . . advancing the old business marker. Think we could find a nice bot to do this for us? Any thoughts on which one?-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 14:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Umm, it looks like quite a few discussions were closed at the same time here, possibly by someone placing the bottom template too low? Was that what was intended? John Carter ( talk) 21:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Depending on users' preferences, the headings can be different, and therefore a static link link does not always work. I propose that the headers become static with the format of May 25, which would also match the other for deletion pages. MrKIA11 ( talk) 23:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
I suggest we state in the intro that bundling is not generally appropriate at MfD and that bundled nominations involving pages that are similar in type but not directly related (e.g. muliple band portals or projects for unrelated bands, user pages of a similar type but belonging to different users, etc.) will be speedy closed. Not that all bundled nominations are necessarily bad (several subpages of the same user for example) but the instances are rare and should be approached with caution. Large lists of bundled noms are a mess when some turn out to be keeps and some deletes and a long list of keeps to close generally means most admins passing through will keep right on moving as those are a lot of work to close properly.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 03:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
The result of Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Manual of Style (signpost articles) was apparently "delete", but it's still there. - Dan Dank55 ( talk)( mistakes) 20:11, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/School related user templates closed with a snowball keep on March 4. Consensus was clear that User:Lady Aleena's attempts to remove all school user templates and replace them with her {{ User school}} template was both highly inappropriate and an undesirable removal of individuality amongst the templates. However, recently User:Rasamassen did some changes to the User school template then began editing other school templates to use this school template instead of their existing school. To me, this is clearly a silent deletion all of the templates after TfD said keep, and highly inappropriate. He started no discussions on this replacing with any relevant projects, editors, etc and had no consensus for the changes (which for many templates was a dramatic change in appearance and wording). I undid all of his edits and left a note on his talk page asking him to stop and explaining why. He seems to disagree that the TfD meant that he can't/should run around replacing existing school templates with the user school one. Since I don't know of Rasamassen will agree, or if he will continue such actions, I think additional input is required on whether his actions violate the closing of the TfD as a keep and if they are inappropriate? AnmaFinotera ( talk) 19:03, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I have moved the admin instructions to a subpage per this discussion. If someone who is more intimately familiar with the MfD process than I am could look over the new page and make sure it's up to date, that'd be great. Pax:Vobiscum ( talk) 20:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
I think that the Discussions heading should be removed and all of the headings below be increased by one level in the hierarchy, mainly because then the headings will be the same level as the other XFD pages. (H3 instead of H4). MrKIA11 ( talk) 21:05, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Soooo...now what? I still don't understand why it makes a difference to you personally on whether it is changed. MrKIA11 ( talk) 00:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
MfD | TfD | RfD |
---|---|---|
Active discussions | Current discussions | Current list |
Date | Date | Date |
Page | Page | Page |
This is not so MrKIA11:
AfD was a bad example since there are clearly more of them, and each day is a log, so it can't count towards this argument. On to RfD, TfD and others:
I'd also like to point you to Wikipedia:Headers#Headings. Notice that your changes are clearly not reflecting current practice and I'm not seeing a reason to change this, or your reasoning as valid. — Maggot Syn 15:38, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone else noticed that there were a few MfD's for the 6th in the log for the 5th? Any idea why that happened? I'm only asking because it would give each of those mfd's one less day to comment on. — Maggot Syn 12:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
For me posting all the User:Omghax111 Mfd's, and also for the similar text in the reasoning; the same problems and therefore reasons for deletion affect most of them. Ironho lds 16:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I've been away for awhile and I see that the old business marker has disappeared once again. It's a very helpful tool and helps keep people from accidentally closing things early as well as pointing out how much is overdue. Is there a reason it left? I know the bot was archiving it at one point but I thought we got that fixed.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 20:36, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I was away for about a month and when I got back I was baffled to see the bot gone and nobody I asked knew anything about it. I looked around and finally found this: Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/MfDBot. Any chance anyone can make this thing work and get it up and running again? I used to sort of manage this page by default and it gets pretty darned tiring to move closed discussions to the closed section, archive completed days, and most exciting of all - move the old business marker forward. I'm glad some others are doing that now but this is really bot work. Save the humans for the hard decisions.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 17:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Transcludable XfD discussions - I have made a proposal that TfDs and CfDs be handled in the same way as AfDs and MfDs, as transcluded subpages. A small consensus seems to have formed, but there have been few responses. As these are very important Wikipedia pages, please take a look and help form a broader consensus (or tear it apart). Thanks! JohnnyMrNinja 08:45, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I found Wikipedia:Wikipedia in culture, which seems to be a copy of Wikipedia in culture. It does not seem to belong on the wiki-space. Should it be posted for MFD? — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 13:06, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I just saw Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Votes for best User page/Archive and saw that a mainpage was deleted via debate, but some associated pages and subpages were left behind. Is there a structured way to include other pages when one like this is deleted? Also, is there a way view information related to the deletion of a page? Becky Sayles ( talk) 23:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I thought this would be of some particular interest to MfD regulars: A lot of MfDs come about because they're non-article pages getting high google/search results. I noticed that just recently we got a new magic word called __NOINDEX__ that can exclude individual pages from search bots. See Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-07-28/Technology report#New features. -- Ned Scott 00:57, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
MfD should be abolished. It is useless, a waste of time and harmful to the project; yet unlike many of the pages it seeks to delete, MfD can't be safely dealt with by simply ignoring it. Because it has been given power to delete pages, MfD represents yet another piece of bureaucratic machinery that has to be monitored in order to prevent abuses.
MfD doesn't coordinate improvements to any pages; it mostly seeks to destroy them. And while this can indirectly lead to some positive changes, by forcing people up against a wall and making them try to hurriedly try to defend and improve their work, it often causes a lot of bad blood due to its confrontational methodology. It stirs up more drama and resentment than many of the pages it seeks to delete, frequently butts into people's userspace for questionable reasons, discourages people from experimenting with innovative reforms/processes in the Wikipedia namespace, often attempts to hinder legitimate caucusing efforts, etc.
The extent to which editors matter far, far outweighs anything we could hope to gain by allegedly curbing some abuses in userspace, etc. If you piss off one productive editor so that he leaves, the loss is tremendous. And I would guess that if Wikipedia were a profit-seeking entity, the management would take the initiative to eliminate MfD, because it drives away many fine volunteers who are providing free labor. But we seem to regard them not so much as scarce, valuable productive resources vital to our success but as readily expendable, replaceable, and subordinate to arbitrary and inconsistently-applied standards of what will and won't be allowed. MfD is hurting Wikipedia, and it should be given the heave-ho.
I say, tag MfD as historical and let's be done with it. Aldrich Hanssen ( talk) 14:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Where would you propose its deletion? To MfD? Seriously I think you exaggerate the drama and ill will. Like other deletion forums these are present, but also like other deletion forums, it quietly does a lot of good in improving wikipedia. I think it should remain. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I've proposed that user and user talk pages should not be eligible for PROD. See WT:PROD#Prodding user pages -- Ned Scott 06:56, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I like the idea that the old business marker is a template but I'm not sure that it should automatically report an admin backlog. Discussions are not eligible for closure normally until five days are complete, the fact that five days have run does not instantly create a backlog of the prior days discussions, an admin backlog should only be reported when there really is one. Consequently, I'm going to be bold and comment out the backlog portion of the template until further discussion.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 19:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
{{ Catfd3}} is your new friend. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ cont] ‹(-¿-)› 20:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
It is not clear to me whether we do relists for MfDs as for AfDs or how else we treat MfDs with little participation taking into account that prod isn't available. Thoughts?-- Tikiwont ( talk) 08:41, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
{{ mfd}} has changed substantially. The template was protected and I saw essentially no discussion, there was a {{ editprotected}} request to overhaul the whole thing but no discussion of the matter that I could see. Can anyone explain to me why this ocurred? -- Doug.( talk • contribs) 23:38, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, message box standardisation has been ongoing for several years now, and has involved hundreds of users. It started with the standardisation of the brown talk page message boxes in 2005: Wikipedia:Talk page templates. Then we standardised the article message boxes in 2007: Wikipedia:Article message boxes. And some months ago we standardised the looks for message boxes in the remaining namespaces. See {{ imbox}}, {{ cmbox}} and {{ ombox}} and their talk pages.
The message box standardisation has been announced every now and then all over Wikipedia, among others in the Village pumps and the Signpost, and we have even had watchlist messages.
The image to the right shows why we did this standardisation. That image is a screenshot of an actual article, before the message box standardisation.
-- David Göthberg ( talk) 19:13, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I've recently seen several deletions of MFD discussions, in at least 2 discussions the original nominator appeared to desire to withdraw the nomination but instead db-authored it. Amazingly not one but two admins deleted, the first restored at my request but apparently left the db-author tag, another came along and deleted as well. He also restored when I asked but this is ominous. XFD discussions should almost never be deleted (there is apparently one recent exception of a Huggle test, but that's an issue in itself, just a completely different one); most amazingly of all, these didn't qualify under G7 (I guess one could argue G6 but I really don't like the idea of deleting a discussion where people have commented just because it's snow/uninformed nominator). The two discussions that I happened across, only because I was looking through the recent edits to the MfD page were: Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:JJGD445 and Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User_talk:BigOleDickForNancy, I have closed both as procedural closes/withdrawn by nominator.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 03:28, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
This is an
archive of past discussions for the period 1 January 2008–30 September 2008. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | Archive 2 | Archive 3 | Archive 4 | Archive 5 | → | Archive 10 |
How about adding a line to the intro regarding task forces? Such as: "Task forces, workgroups, and other project subpages, should normally be referred to the parent project rather than nominating for deletion. If material is so offensive or inappropriate that it cannot remain consider fixing it."-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 18:16, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
It might be useful to if a note about Portals were posted at: Wikipedia:WikiProject_Portals#Portals_for_deletion_at_MfD, a good practice. Currently, I have to do that whenever I see one posted. If I miss one, it never makes the Project Portals list, which has some historical value to Project participants as well.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 21:42, 15 January 2008 (UTC)
(I decided I was getting to far afield on all the changes and ought to start a new section)
The MFD Template link to the discussion seems to work but is redlinked. I've seen discussion of this on {{ AFD}}'s talk pages as a problem there too previously. Looking into this also got me to noticing that AFD has converted to the white banner with a red sidebar style of template (and also seems to have fixed the redlink issue). {{ rfd}} has as well. {{ ifd}} is a little different - I kind of like the more urgent look to theirs. But I think red borders are reserved for pretty serious templates. {{ cfd}}, {{ sfd}}, and {{ mfd}} are looking a little long in the tooth and only {{ mfd}} appears to be broken.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 04:53, 16 January 2008 (UTC)
I've seen several nominations of userboxes on here lately. Perhaps it's time we resurrect WP:TFDU? >Radiant< 23:28, 17 January 2008 (UTC)
Consider contributing in this RFC:
Wikipedia talk:Requests for comment/Policies/Userbox content. -
Mtmelendez (
Talk) 01:37, 18 January 2008 (UTC)
I apologize for continuously tinkering with the format or policies here, but I wanted to generate more discussion about completely overhauling the look and feel of this page to make it more user-friendly and make the steps for deletion more obvious, especially regarding what is and what is not appropriate to nominate. I would really appreciate feedback on this: Please feel free to edit this page as you see fit, and understand it is not a final draft in any way (as a matter of fact I still have "notes to self" on the proposal). See here for my proposal. -- 12 Noon 2¢ 03:10, 23 January 2008 (UTC)
1) Why do we link the date in the {{ oldmfd}} template?
2) When you close an MFD in a talk namespace the link won't work. E.g. I noticed that User:Hmwith closed a couple of MFDs on subpages of article talk pages: Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Talk:Bob_Ezrin/Comments and Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/Talk:Anthony_Moore/Comments, but hadn't finished the closing by removing the MfD tags so I did it and left {{ oldmfd}} tags but they seem to be set up to link to an discussion page for the basic namespace page - these in fact have no basic namespace page, since they're subpages of talkspace pages, but even if they did, if the page being nominated is itself in talkspace the reference won't work.
Thoughts?-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 00:26, 24 January 2008 (UTC)
--edit conflict
Hello, I was browsing the intertubes for some information on Martial arts. I generally consider Wikipedia a pretty good jumping off point for information, and visit the site a lot. I haven't really contributed much, I made an edit today, but am pretty familiar with Wikipedia's internal workings, which is why this page: [ [6]] concerned me. I see I have to have an account to get it taken off Wikipedia (or considered to be removed) but I don't want to create an account, so I was hoping someone with more experience on these matters could help out. The page in question is some kind of biography of a Wikipedia editor but it is clearly masquerading as an encyclopedia article and a blatant piece of self-promotion, as the entire user space of this editor seems to be, but I only care about this "article" because it could so easily be mistaken for genuine encyclopedia content when in reality it is just some person promoting themselves and using Wikipedia to do it. Thanks for taking the time to read and react. 24.14.119.135 ( talk) 18:00, 25 January 2008 (UTC)
Occasionally, at WP:MFD, someone tries to delete a user page which contains minimal content and an external link. For example, suppose I had nothing on my user page but the following:
Somebody might try to have that deleted on the ground that 100% of it was unrelated to Wikipedia. However, that would be a misinterpretation of the user page policy, since the page would have only one sentence and a single link, which is far from "substantial" unrelated content.
I would like to add something like the following under "Prerequisites":
If anyone can think of a better phrasing, please let me know. -- Metropolitan90 (talk) 01:44, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
WP:UP#NOT (a Guideline) says "Generally, you should avoid substantial content on your user page that is unrelated to Wikipedia." It then goes on to give examples and uses terms like "excessive amounts of x". None of this implies a percentage. I don't think we need to add anything. More importantly it's advisory "Generally you should avoid . . . " I think it's more important to impress upon editors that they need to read WP:UP before they nominate someone's userpage.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 04:40, 26 January 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Tlatosmd/Adult-child sex is up to 66K, should it be fully transcluded, or only just a link to the MfD discussion? MBisanz talk 05:17, 7 February 2008 (UTC)
The Anime and Manga Portal has recently had an overhaul to clean things up and stream line some stuff. In doing so, there are now 232 pages that need to be deleted for housekeeping purposes. Since there isn't any controversy, what would be the best way to go about doing the deletions? AnmaFinotera ( talk) 20:23, 8 February 2008 (UTC)
Several portals relating to musical acts are currently being considered for deletion in the same nomination. Unfortunately, I don't think it makes a great deal of sense to see them all nominated and considered in this way. I have stated as much there, and at least one other editor has agreed with me. Unfortunately, I have no clue of the procedures of closing such a possibly faulty group nomination. Anyone out there have any ideas? John Carter ( talk) 23:54, 17 February 2008 (UTC)
I just added an Old Business marker, hope nobody minds.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 20:44, 19 February 2008 (UTC)
I think it would be helpful if we added {{ ln}} to {{ mfd2}} so that the talk page and logs would show for pages nominated. This would help among other things with ease of tagging with {{ oldmfd}} when closing keeps. Only complication that I'm sure I can't handle is that the code would have to switch to {{ lnt}} for talk page nominations. TfD uses {{ lt}} and WP:AFD uses {{ la}}, I think and it seems quite helpful.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 03:56, 26 February 2008 (UTC)
According to policy, proposals that are "disruptive" can be deleted. It is worth asking, how do we make that determination? Is it based on some inherent aspect of the page? Or do we measure disruptiveness by people's reactions to it? That is, if people behavior disruptively in their support or opposition to a policy, is that prima facie evidence that the policy itself is disruptive? One might argue that this is a practically useful and easily-measurable criterion, and thus should be adopted. The pitfall would be if there were a proposal whose retention were desirable, but its proponents or opponents happened to be disruptive in their conduct in reference to that proposal.
Wordnet defines "disruptive" as "characterized by unrest or disorder or insubordination." Is it accurate to say that a proposal itself, then, is disruptive; or would it be more accurate to simply say that someone's behavior in reference to that proposal was disruptive, without making a judgment on the page itself? 129.174.2.205 ( talk) 00:13, 1 March 2008 (UTC)
Removed entirely. It was a loophole. -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 19:26, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
This MfD, Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/School related user templates, was closed by a non-admin. As such, all 700+ templates still have their deletion templates, and the edits made by the nominator falsely claiming all of those templates had been replaced by her creation. Can an admin go through through and fix these two issues? AnmaFinotera ( talk) 17:33, 4 March 2008 (UTC)
Language like "not a good idea" or "Is Frowned Upon" is apparently too wishy-washy. People will just read the requirement, and then go ahead and just do it anyway " damnit!".
So to fix that, I'll just harden the language, damnit, because it really is important that we don't have discussions about closing discussions about closing discussions, etc... ad infinum.
And if it ever happens again, I'll just kick their ass :-P (obscure reference. ;-) ) -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 19:39, 10 March 2008 (UTC) urk, who deleted that reference? I'll request undeletion <sigh>
I agree, all this wishy-washy language just leaves room for a temporary majority to do as it pleases (after all, it's not prohibited; just "frowned upon") while bashing someone else over the head if he violates it in a way they don't like ("WTF? We told you this was frowned upon.") Better just to live under the rule of law than in this chaotic environment. Obuibo Mbstpo ( talk) 17:55, 11 March 2008 (UTC)
(dedent) There is compelling reason. The only grounds for deleting a proposal which is under discussion would be that it is disruptive. Under standard deliberative process, the motion would be Objection to Consideration of the Question and, we might note, that motion is out of order if made after debate has begun. The reason is that debating over whether or not to debate, when you are already debating, solves nothing and only adds more opportunity for disagreement. Hence an MfD for a proposal which is under discussion should be speedy closed. If the discussion is truly disruptive, it could be argued, it should be immediately deleted by administrative action, but this community does not do that. So MfD is utterly and totally inappropriate when discussion is underway. The proper place to discuss the proposal is on the proposal pages, not somewhere else. If there is a problem, it would properly be taken to AN/I, not to MfD. "I have not seen any compelling need" is not an argument at all about the text, it is merely a personal statement of incapacity and makes no argument for keeping the language which was there. Is the replacement language harmful? If not, then why is it being opposed? It is actually more accurate about present practice, and I could cite at least one example and probably more with a little research.-- Abd ( talk) 06:04, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Altered prerequisite text, as it was too weak. -- Kim Bruning ( talk) 19:25, 10 March 2008 (UTC)
Rather than edit war, would anyone like to discuss the proposed hardening of language? There was also a discussion at Wikipedia_talk:Miscellany_for_deletion#Hardening_the_language. Larry E. Jordan ( talk) 05:21, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
Done-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 22:17, 25 March 2008 (UTC)
I just discovered that this may have been discussed elsewhere. Given that this it the Talk page for the project subpage actually being edited, it might be more appropriate here, but, if not, then there should be a link here, so that future generations may not be misled as I may have been. I have to do that sleep thing, the kids wake up early and are singularly unimpressed by my protestations that I was up late. And it is already insanely late. (This comment may be removed after a brief lapse) -- Abd ( talk) 05:57, 22 March 2008 (UTC)
I wanted to just drop a note to say how convenient the instructions were for listing a page for deletion. It was very easy to follow. Someone should do the same sort of set-up on AfD. :) - Arcayne (cast a spell) 03:15, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I've proposed a new section in the essay WP:ATA, which will apply specifically to MfD discussions. See Wikipedia_talk:Arguments_to_avoid_in_deletion_discussions#It.27s_useless. Walton One 14:59, 11 April 2008 (UTC)
I recently stumbled, almost by accident, upon Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:AndyJones/Triceratops in popular culture. Without commenting on the MfD itself, shouldn't there be some sort of rule that if you MfD something in userspace you leave a message for the user whose space it is in (in this case, me)? Perhaps we could get a bot to deal with it, to save it from being a responsibility of the nominator? AndyJones ( talk) 10:06, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
Noticed also the Afd's where not notifying the creator of the article. Example: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Andrew_Baron_(2nd_nomination) , started by User_talk:LoopZilla no sign of notification. Example2: Wikipedia:Articles_for_deletion/Nathan_Hale_(colonel), started by User_talk:Marc29th same. SunCreator ( talk) 18:34, 14 April 2008 (UTC)
I've been doing a lot of moving closed discussions to the closed section, archiving closed days, and most exciting of all . . . advancing the old business marker. Think we could find a nice bot to do this for us? Any thoughts on which one?-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 14:17, 15 April 2008 (UTC)
Umm, it looks like quite a few discussions were closed at the same time here, possibly by someone placing the bottom template too low? Was that what was intended? John Carter ( talk) 21:46, 18 April 2008 (UTC)
Depending on users' preferences, the headings can be different, and therefore a static link link does not always work. I propose that the headers become static with the format of May 25, which would also match the other for deletion pages. MrKIA11 ( talk) 23:38, 27 April 2008 (UTC)
I suggest we state in the intro that bundling is not generally appropriate at MfD and that bundled nominations involving pages that are similar in type but not directly related (e.g. muliple band portals or projects for unrelated bands, user pages of a similar type but belonging to different users, etc.) will be speedy closed. Not that all bundled nominations are necessarily bad (several subpages of the same user for example) but the instances are rare and should be approached with caution. Large lists of bundled noms are a mess when some turn out to be keeps and some deletes and a long list of keeps to close generally means most admins passing through will keep right on moving as those are a lot of work to close properly.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 03:27, 2 May 2008 (UTC)
The result of Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Manual of Style (signpost articles) was apparently "delete", but it's still there. - Dan Dank55 ( talk)( mistakes) 20:11, 5 May 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/School related user templates closed with a snowball keep on March 4. Consensus was clear that User:Lady Aleena's attempts to remove all school user templates and replace them with her {{ User school}} template was both highly inappropriate and an undesirable removal of individuality amongst the templates. However, recently User:Rasamassen did some changes to the User school template then began editing other school templates to use this school template instead of their existing school. To me, this is clearly a silent deletion all of the templates after TfD said keep, and highly inappropriate. He started no discussions on this replacing with any relevant projects, editors, etc and had no consensus for the changes (which for many templates was a dramatic change in appearance and wording). I undid all of his edits and left a note on his talk page asking him to stop and explaining why. He seems to disagree that the TfD meant that he can't/should run around replacing existing school templates with the user school one. Since I don't know of Rasamassen will agree, or if he will continue such actions, I think additional input is required on whether his actions violate the closing of the TfD as a keep and if they are inappropriate? AnmaFinotera ( talk) 19:03, 12 May 2008 (UTC)
I have moved the admin instructions to a subpage per this discussion. If someone who is more intimately familiar with the MfD process than I am could look over the new page and make sure it's up to date, that'd be great. Pax:Vobiscum ( talk) 20:24, 25 May 2008 (UTC)
I think that the Discussions heading should be removed and all of the headings below be increased by one level in the hierarchy, mainly because then the headings will be the same level as the other XFD pages. (H3 instead of H4). MrKIA11 ( talk) 21:05, 31 May 2008 (UTC)
Soooo...now what? I still don't understand why it makes a difference to you personally on whether it is changed. MrKIA11 ( talk) 00:03, 13 June 2008 (UTC)
MfD | TfD | RfD |
---|---|---|
Active discussions | Current discussions | Current list |
Date | Date | Date |
Page | Page | Page |
This is not so MrKIA11:
AfD was a bad example since there are clearly more of them, and each day is a log, so it can't count towards this argument. On to RfD, TfD and others:
I'd also like to point you to Wikipedia:Headers#Headings. Notice that your changes are clearly not reflecting current practice and I'm not seeing a reason to change this, or your reasoning as valid. — Maggot Syn 15:38, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Has anyone else noticed that there were a few MfD's for the 6th in the log for the 5th? Any idea why that happened? I'm only asking because it would give each of those mfd's one less day to comment on. — Maggot Syn 12:54, 7 June 2008 (UTC)
For me posting all the User:Omghax111 Mfd's, and also for the similar text in the reasoning; the same problems and therefore reasons for deletion affect most of them. Ironho lds 16:45, 8 June 2008 (UTC)
I've been away for awhile and I see that the old business marker has disappeared once again. It's a very helpful tool and helps keep people from accidentally closing things early as well as pointing out how much is overdue. Is there a reason it left? I know the bot was archiving it at one point but I thought we got that fixed.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 20:36, 15 June 2008 (UTC)
I was away for about a month and when I got back I was baffled to see the bot gone and nobody I asked knew anything about it. I looked around and finally found this: Wikipedia:Bots/Requests_for_approval/MfDBot. Any chance anyone can make this thing work and get it up and running again? I used to sort of manage this page by default and it gets pretty darned tiring to move closed discussions to the closed section, archive completed days, and most exciting of all - move the old business marker forward. I'm glad some others are doing that now but this is really bot work. Save the humans for the hard decisions.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 17:10, 29 June 2008 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Village pump (proposals)#Transcludable XfD discussions - I have made a proposal that TfDs and CfDs be handled in the same way as AfDs and MfDs, as transcluded subpages. A small consensus seems to have formed, but there have been few responses. As these are very important Wikipedia pages, please take a look and help form a broader consensus (or tear it apart). Thanks! JohnnyMrNinja 08:45, 1 July 2008 (UTC)
Hello, I found Wikipedia:Wikipedia in culture, which seems to be a copy of Wikipedia in culture. It does not seem to belong on the wiki-space. Should it be posted for MFD? — Erik ( talk • contrib) - 13:06, 3 July 2008 (UTC)
I just saw Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/Wikipedia:Votes for best User page/Archive and saw that a mainpage was deleted via debate, but some associated pages and subpages were left behind. Is there a structured way to include other pages when one like this is deleted? Also, is there a way view information related to the deletion of a page? Becky Sayles ( talk) 23:23, 14 July 2008 (UTC)
I thought this would be of some particular interest to MfD regulars: A lot of MfDs come about because they're non-article pages getting high google/search results. I noticed that just recently we got a new magic word called __NOINDEX__ that can exclude individual pages from search bots. See Wikipedia:Wikipedia Signpost/2008-07-28/Technology report#New features. -- Ned Scott 00:57, 4 August 2008 (UTC)
MfD should be abolished. It is useless, a waste of time and harmful to the project; yet unlike many of the pages it seeks to delete, MfD can't be safely dealt with by simply ignoring it. Because it has been given power to delete pages, MfD represents yet another piece of bureaucratic machinery that has to be monitored in order to prevent abuses.
MfD doesn't coordinate improvements to any pages; it mostly seeks to destroy them. And while this can indirectly lead to some positive changes, by forcing people up against a wall and making them try to hurriedly try to defend and improve their work, it often causes a lot of bad blood due to its confrontational methodology. It stirs up more drama and resentment than many of the pages it seeks to delete, frequently butts into people's userspace for questionable reasons, discourages people from experimenting with innovative reforms/processes in the Wikipedia namespace, often attempts to hinder legitimate caucusing efforts, etc.
The extent to which editors matter far, far outweighs anything we could hope to gain by allegedly curbing some abuses in userspace, etc. If you piss off one productive editor so that he leaves, the loss is tremendous. And I would guess that if Wikipedia were a profit-seeking entity, the management would take the initiative to eliminate MfD, because it drives away many fine volunteers who are providing free labor. But we seem to regard them not so much as scarce, valuable productive resources vital to our success but as readily expendable, replaceable, and subordinate to arbitrary and inconsistently-applied standards of what will and won't be allowed. MfD is hurting Wikipedia, and it should be given the heave-ho.
I say, tag MfD as historical and let's be done with it. Aldrich Hanssen ( talk) 14:06, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
Where would you propose its deletion? To MfD? Seriously I think you exaggerate the drama and ill will. Like other deletion forums these are present, but also like other deletion forums, it quietly does a lot of good in improving wikipedia. I think it should remain. -- Bduke ( talk) 23:27, 8 August 2008 (UTC)
I've proposed that user and user talk pages should not be eligible for PROD. See WT:PROD#Prodding user pages -- Ned Scott 06:56, 9 August 2008 (UTC)
I like the idea that the old business marker is a template but I'm not sure that it should automatically report an admin backlog. Discussions are not eligible for closure normally until five days are complete, the fact that five days have run does not instantly create a backlog of the prior days discussions, an admin backlog should only be reported when there really is one. Consequently, I'm going to be bold and comment out the backlog portion of the template until further discussion.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 19:59, 17 August 2008 (UTC)
{{ Catfd3}} is your new friend. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ cont] ‹(-¿-)› 20:21, 8 September 2008 (UTC)
It is not clear to me whether we do relists for MfDs as for AfDs or how else we treat MfDs with little participation taking into account that prod isn't available. Thoughts?-- Tikiwont ( talk) 08:41, 9 September 2008 (UTC)
{{ mfd}} has changed substantially. The template was protected and I saw essentially no discussion, there was a {{ editprotected}} request to overhaul the whole thing but no discussion of the matter that I could see. Can anyone explain to me why this ocurred? -- Doug.( talk • contribs) 23:38, 20 September 2008 (UTC)
Yes, message box standardisation has been ongoing for several years now, and has involved hundreds of users. It started with the standardisation of the brown talk page message boxes in 2005: Wikipedia:Talk page templates. Then we standardised the article message boxes in 2007: Wikipedia:Article message boxes. And some months ago we standardised the looks for message boxes in the remaining namespaces. See {{ imbox}}, {{ cmbox}} and {{ ombox}} and their talk pages.
The message box standardisation has been announced every now and then all over Wikipedia, among others in the Village pumps and the Signpost, and we have even had watchlist messages.
The image to the right shows why we did this standardisation. That image is a screenshot of an actual article, before the message box standardisation.
-- David Göthberg ( talk) 19:13, 30 October 2008 (UTC)
I've recently seen several deletions of MFD discussions, in at least 2 discussions the original nominator appeared to desire to withdraw the nomination but instead db-authored it. Amazingly not one but two admins deleted, the first restored at my request but apparently left the db-author tag, another came along and deleted as well. He also restored when I asked but this is ominous. XFD discussions should almost never be deleted (there is apparently one recent exception of a Huggle test, but that's an issue in itself, just a completely different one); most amazingly of all, these didn't qualify under G7 (I guess one could argue G6 but I really don't like the idea of deleting a discussion where people have commented just because it's snow/uninformed nominator). The two discussions that I happened across, only because I was looking through the recent edits to the MfD page were: Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:JJGD445 and Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User_talk:BigOleDickForNancy, I have closed both as procedural closes/withdrawn by nominator.-- Doug.( talk • contribs) 03:28, 27 September 2008 (UTC)
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