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Especially for nine-ball but also for eight-ball, one-pocket, etc., I firmly think we need to come to, and as editors enforce in article texts, a consensus on spelling conventions and implement it consistently throughout all of the cue sports Wikepedia articles. I advocate (and herein attempt to justify) a system of standardized spellings, based on 1) general grammar rules; 2) basic logic; and 3) disambiguation.
This article is a draft submission to the active editor community of billiards-related articles on Wikipedia. It is intended to ultimately end up being "[[User:Wikipedia:WikiProject Cue sports/Spelling conventions]]", as its first documentation output.
Anyway, please help me think this through. The point is not for me to become world famous™ for having finally codified billiards terms and united the entire English-speaking world in using them (hurrah). I simply want the articles here on pool and related games to be very consistent in application of some new consensus Wikipedia editing standards about spelling/phrasing of easily confusable billards terms that may be ambiguous to many readers in the absence of that standard.
Compare:
That's the super-simple "use case" I make for this proposed nomenclature. If you think that the differentiation didn't cut it please TELL ME, and say how you would improve it.
— SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 10:50, 20 November 2006 (UTC) [Imported from Talk: Carom billiards because it's more relevant here:]
I would like to propose that this standard be adopted as a consensus agreement by the regular editors and "clean-up crew" on the billiards, nine-ball, snooker and related articles, as "official" documentation for WikiProject Cue sports. As it stood when I began writing this, these aritcles were somewhat hard to read and tedious to parse even for someone who is a native English speaker and avid pool player. I felt very sorry for those who do not yet know anything about the game of nine-ball, and/or are ESL learners. Heh.
I would like to see consensus — not just a "you're out-voted!" (coming from fellow editors or me), but a genuine understanding of the reasoning behind whatever standard emerges (the one I've proposed or an alternative), and at least tacit acceptance of its necessity even by those that may disagree on a specific small point. If consensus is reached I would clean this up even more (it's already formatted pretty heavily, but has too many asides and may still have some first-person in it). After launch of WikiProject Cue sports, it could also be derived into something shorter and article/category specific and proposed as an official WP Naming Conventions Guideline and one about article text to become a WP Manual of Style Guideline. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 10:50, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
[Copying this over from the one-pocket article's Talk page, since it is as relevant here as there.]
The original article mostly (though not entirely consistently) used the spelling "One Pocket", which is doubly wrong. It is not a proper (i.e. capitalized) noun - cf. "chess", "football", etc., which we do not call "Chess" or "Football". And it is a compound noun, requiring a hyphen. "One pocket" means "a single pocket of some sort, somewhere", while "one-pocket" indicates "something, such as a game, called 'one-pocket'". Moving article and adjusting redirects to comply (esp. since the "One Pocket" article title actually violates WP article case conventions, too. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 13:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
"Rest" is the term used in snooker for the mechanical bridge and should be included. 218.186.9.5 11:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi,
I learned a new term today, thanks to the move of billiards to its new location. Since it seems from the talk page that you championed this, I thought I'd stop by to let you know. This doesn't constitute an objection, or anything, but I must concur with Robert West's observation that I wouldn't have guessed that article name in five trillion years. If you're keeping any kind of informal measure on the currency of the term, lump me in with the confused. In it's own way, this is very fitting, as I'm quite bad at all forms of the game! :) Best wishes, Xoloz 21:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I added short sections on how to write (and not write) championship titles and the names of rulesets. I think they are self-explanatorily sensible, but one editor at Talk:List of World Eight-ball Champions disagreed with the addition (it's unclear if the dispute is only on principle because editor feels it could affect a debate there, which it won't, or with actual substantive reasons). Anyone else have a problem with it? — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ cont] ‹(-¿-)› 15:50, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Could someone please update the first bullet in Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Cue sports#Dates based on MOS:UNLINKDATES? Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 15:59, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Much of this guideline needs to be stuffed into endnotes, as it's mostly explanations of the rationales for the rules, rather than the rules themselves and examples of them. Some of it can probably safely be archived on the talk page, too, to reduce the overall length of the projectpage. I'll maybe hit this tomorrow; need to go to bed now. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 12:49, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
I have never heard anyone, in my entire life, say "cue stick"!
Please relent! Batternut ( talk) 11:56, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
The UMB is the highest governing body for carom and their website is in English. Yet their names for carom games are not used as article names (partie libre, cadre, 1 cushion, 3 cushion, 5 pin, etc.). These names are used in the UMB constitution and other publications which can be found here: UMB rules and statutes.-- Countakeshi ( talk) 12:11, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, but this guide is atrocious in its recommendation that hyphens be omitted in constructions unless it's the specific name of a game. Compound adjectives are hyphenated in English, period, so saying "the game of nine-ball is a nine ball game" is plain incorrect, period, end of. If the purpose of the guidance it to avoid confusion with the actual name of the game, it fails completely because the name of the game is hyphenated for the exact same reason the phrase would be hyphenated in general use: it's taken from compound adjective. If there is actual possibility of confusion the entire sentence should be rephrased. And I say actual possibilities because the example used is a tortured made-up example that makes for a terribly written sentence no matter how it's punctuated and one that that should be tossed out without question regardless. oknazevad ( talk) 14:25, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
I'd propose removing the following, as they are already covered in the MOS sections mentioned:
The lead has "Explain how other Wikipedia-wide policies and guidelines (e.g. MOS:ICONS) may apply to cue sports articles in particular, as needed.", but there's no reference to MOS:ICONS in the body.
The section on Commercial sponsors could do with some trimming, IMO. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 10:46, 11 April 2023 (UTC)
This project page does not require a rating on Wikipedia's
content assessment scale. It is of interest to the following WikiProjects: | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
|
Especially for nine-ball but also for eight-ball, one-pocket, etc., I firmly think we need to come to, and as editors enforce in article texts, a consensus on spelling conventions and implement it consistently throughout all of the cue sports Wikepedia articles. I advocate (and herein attempt to justify) a system of standardized spellings, based on 1) general grammar rules; 2) basic logic; and 3) disambiguation.
This article is a draft submission to the active editor community of billiards-related articles on Wikipedia. It is intended to ultimately end up being "[[User:Wikipedia:WikiProject Cue sports/Spelling conventions]]", as its first documentation output.
Anyway, please help me think this through. The point is not for me to become world famous™ for having finally codified billiards terms and united the entire English-speaking world in using them (hurrah). I simply want the articles here on pool and related games to be very consistent in application of some new consensus Wikipedia editing standards about spelling/phrasing of easily confusable billards terms that may be ambiguous to many readers in the absence of that standard.
Compare:
That's the super-simple "use case" I make for this proposed nomenclature. If you think that the differentiation didn't cut it please TELL ME, and say how you would improve it.
— SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 10:50, 20 November 2006 (UTC) [Imported from Talk: Carom billiards because it's more relevant here:]
I would like to propose that this standard be adopted as a consensus agreement by the regular editors and "clean-up crew" on the billiards, nine-ball, snooker and related articles, as "official" documentation for WikiProject Cue sports. As it stood when I began writing this, these aritcles were somewhat hard to read and tedious to parse even for someone who is a native English speaker and avid pool player. I felt very sorry for those who do not yet know anything about the game of nine-ball, and/or are ESL learners. Heh.
I would like to see consensus — not just a "you're out-voted!" (coming from fellow editors or me), but a genuine understanding of the reasoning behind whatever standard emerges (the one I've proposed or an alternative), and at least tacit acceptance of its necessity even by those that may disagree on a specific small point. If consensus is reached I would clean this up even more (it's already formatted pretty heavily, but has too many asides and may still have some first-person in it). After launch of WikiProject Cue sports, it could also be derived into something shorter and article/category specific and proposed as an official WP Naming Conventions Guideline and one about article text to become a WP Manual of Style Guideline. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 10:50, 20 November 2006 (UTC)
[Copying this over from the one-pocket article's Talk page, since it is as relevant here as there.]
The original article mostly (though not entirely consistently) used the spelling "One Pocket", which is doubly wrong. It is not a proper (i.e. capitalized) noun - cf. "chess", "football", etc., which we do not call "Chess" or "Football". And it is a compound noun, requiring a hyphen. "One pocket" means "a single pocket of some sort, somewhere", while "one-pocket" indicates "something, such as a game, called 'one-pocket'". Moving article and adjusting redirects to comply (esp. since the "One Pocket" article title actually violates WP article case conventions, too. — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ contrib ツ 13:23, 15 November 2006 (UTC)
"Rest" is the term used in snooker for the mechanical bridge and should be included. 218.186.9.5 11:08, 11 March 2007 (UTC)
Hi,
I learned a new term today, thanks to the move of billiards to its new location. Since it seems from the talk page that you championed this, I thought I'd stop by to let you know. This doesn't constitute an objection, or anything, but I must concur with Robert West's observation that I wouldn't have guessed that article name in five trillion years. If you're keeping any kind of informal measure on the currency of the term, lump me in with the confused. In it's own way, this is very fitting, as I'm quite bad at all forms of the game! :) Best wishes, Xoloz 21:02, 2 March 2007 (UTC)
I added short sections on how to write (and not write) championship titles and the names of rulesets. I think they are self-explanatorily sensible, but one editor at Talk:List of World Eight-ball Champions disagreed with the addition (it's unclear if the dispute is only on principle because editor feels it could affect a debate there, which it won't, or with actual substantive reasons). Anyone else have a problem with it? — SMcCandlish [ talk] [ cont] ‹(-¿-)› 15:50, 29 August 2008 (UTC)
Could someone please update the first bullet in Wikipedia:Manual of Style/Cue sports#Dates based on MOS:UNLINKDATES? Thanks! GoingBatty ( talk) 15:59, 8 June 2012 (UTC)
Much of this guideline needs to be stuffed into endnotes, as it's mostly explanations of the rationales for the rules, rather than the rules themselves and examples of them. Some of it can probably safely be archived on the talk page, too, to reduce the overall length of the projectpage. I'll maybe hit this tomorrow; need to go to bed now. — SMcCandlish ☺ ☏ ¢ ≽ʌⱷ҅ᴥⱷʌ≼ 12:49, 25 October 2014 (UTC)
I have never heard anyone, in my entire life, say "cue stick"!
Please relent! Batternut ( talk) 11:56, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
The UMB is the highest governing body for carom and their website is in English. Yet their names for carom games are not used as article names (partie libre, cadre, 1 cushion, 3 cushion, 5 pin, etc.). These names are used in the UMB constitution and other publications which can be found here: UMB rules and statutes.-- Countakeshi ( talk) 12:11, 2 June 2018 (UTC)
Sorry, but this guide is atrocious in its recommendation that hyphens be omitted in constructions unless it's the specific name of a game. Compound adjectives are hyphenated in English, period, so saying "the game of nine-ball is a nine ball game" is plain incorrect, period, end of. If the purpose of the guidance it to avoid confusion with the actual name of the game, it fails completely because the name of the game is hyphenated for the exact same reason the phrase would be hyphenated in general use: it's taken from compound adjective. If there is actual possibility of confusion the entire sentence should be rephrased. And I say actual possibilities because the example used is a tortured made-up example that makes for a terribly written sentence no matter how it's punctuated and one that that should be tossed out without question regardless. oknazevad ( talk) 14:25, 19 February 2022 (UTC)
I'd propose removing the following, as they are already covered in the MOS sections mentioned:
The lead has "Explain how other Wikipedia-wide policies and guidelines (e.g. MOS:ICONS) may apply to cue sports articles in particular, as needed.", but there's no reference to MOS:ICONS in the body.
The section on Commercial sponsors could do with some trimming, IMO. Regards, BennyOnTheLoose ( talk) 10:46, 11 April 2023 (UTC)