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Okay, I've noticed that there are a lot of "close, needs 1-2 more edits" remarks on talk pages of articles at the top. Not fail, not quite pass... I will start boldly marking these as "pending" or "hold" so that people can go to the next one. Any other ideas? — Rob ( talk) 01:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that Tom Cousineau and maybe a few other articles failed GA status because it had no images. Problem with some of those articles especially ones of sports stars of the 70s and 80s is that there is absolutely no free images avalible for them, is this a vaild reason to oppose a GA, having no images?. Note Jack Tatum currently nominated is having the same thing, no free images to use. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 01:07, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a number of existing GAs that don't have nearly enough inline citations, or sometimes a lack of citations at all. So for things like Maritime history of Florida (which I passed earlier) and Operation Market Garden (which I'm about to review), which are both highly informative articles that happen to lack inline citations, I am inclined to give the articles the benefit of the doubt, take the references at their word and leave off specific inline citations for the FA process (which obviously would require citations, inline or otherwise). — Rob ( talk) 19:39, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Technically inline references aren't even strictly necessary for FAs (they'd take Harvard references too, for instance). A link farm isn't good enough, obviously, but a dedicated and properly formatted "references" or "bibliography" section is generally considered good enough. The longer the article and the more sources used, I guess the more important inline citations would be. TheGrappler 22:18, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
It seems that there are a lot of articles out there that are exceptionally well-written and comprehensive, yet lack references. Examples include Geographic information system and Tuatara.
I propose creating a project like Good Articles that raises awareness of these articles and allows those who are interested to work on them. - Samsara ( talk • contribs) 18:04, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I propose to change the following section:
If you see an article below under "Nominations" that you don't consider to
meet the criteria:
{{subst:gan-fail|(reason)}} ~~~~
To:
If you see an article below under "Nominations" that you don't consider to
meet the criteria:
Samsara (
talk •
contribs) 10:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
WHen reviewing an article the nomination really requires to be tagged so that the next person doesn't spend time reviewing the same article only to find that it's been promoted/failed. Suggest that -- pending Gnangarra 01:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC) be tagged after the articles nomination. Then another reviewer knows who is reviewing and when they started, if the reviewer is unable to complete straight away or waiting for a fix then they a note on the articles talk page of where they are at. There nothing worse than spending 1 or 2 hours reviewing, checking ref and image tags only to find it got promoted. Gnangarra 01:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
I removed Stockholm, but reinserted it again, as I currently don't have the time/interest to go through the Peer Review process and I couldn't find anywhere else to have it graded. / Fred- Chess 15:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
It sounds like it's missing something but I can't clearly put my finger on it. It sounds half-POV, half-NPOV so I'm not sure. As for the references, there aren't enough but is looks good for GA. Would somebody give it a review too. Lincher 22:38, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
It should be removed since people don't tend to categorize articles in this category, plus the fact that almost all the categories have some articles that are 25kb in them. Lincher 11:40, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Currently, there are 997 featured articles and 1060 good articles. This suggests that there are many "good" articles out there which have not been spotted or nominated.
This is possibly because more Wikipedians are aware about featured articles. Everyone would like their articles to be featured! However, comparitively few Wikipedians have a goal of getting a good article, and probably fewer Wikipedians know about trhe Good Articles project (compared to the Featured Articles project).
Therefore we should have a Good Article Drive where we read articles and nominate deserving, but unspotted, potential Good Articles. I have nominated Criticism of Microsoft, Chelsea F.C., Gmail and RuneScape.
It is noteworthy that Gmail is a former featured article candidate, and RuneScape's current Good Article nomination is doomed to failure. Given that Featured Article standards are very high, and Wikipedians often wish to see more featured articles, many Featured Article nominations fail. I suggest we review Featured Article nominations. If they are not good enough for Featured Article, but are good enough for Good Article, we could suggest the nominator nominate the article for Good Article instead.
If the purpose of the Good Article project is to spot potential featured articles and develop them into actual featured articles, then, shortly after an article becomes a Good Article, it should be sent for Peer Review so that minor problems can be fixed and it can become a Featured Article.
In addition, although Good Articles is supposed to be an informal proccess, I think allowing a single reviewer to pass the articles is a little too lenient. Right now, I could pass all the Good Article nominations. 3 reviewers would be better. This would also allow reviewers to give feedback on the article and point out what's good and bad about it. This is especially so if the Good Articles project aims to spot and improve potential Featured Articles.
-- J.L.W.S. The Special One 12:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
[1] [2] Please reword my additions, as I believe I did not phrase them in the best possible way. In addition, I don't know how to get the words into the box (where I want it to be) on the FAC page. Could some wiki markup expert help me there? -- J.L.W.S. The Special One 10:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I have a suggestion, as mentioned on the good article talk page i believe that there should be the good article image in the top right hand corner of the article. Without it people have no idea if the article is good or not, unless they check the talk and lets be honest who does that?. If featured articles can have a star in the corner why cant we have the good article in the top corner. I would make it myself but I'm not to good at that stuff. I do remember a bit ago seeing the icon in the corner of the lost article, had the template been deleted??? If somebody will make one i will add it to all 1000 of the good articles, it doesnt bother me but it just needs making.-- Childzy 09:17, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Good articles may not be the "cream of the crop" but they are better than the rest of the articles on wikipedia and need recognizing as being so , also a lot of featured articles are good articles first. Who can we complain to higher up in wikidom to get things changed??-- Childzy 18:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I think we should replace the Random Article button in the navigation bar with a button that links to the GA page and put it below the FA button. It is after all better than getting a stub or disambig page and it gives an ever increasing variety. Also promoting the good articles list is the job of the Wikiproject good articles so if you have anymore suggestions do bring it up there, we could use more brilliant ideas like the Good article collaboratin of the week. Tarret 19:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
I see List of titles and honours of Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom is a nominee and I'm tempted to fail it on the grounds of it being a list. We don't really have a "good list" award so I seems kinda odd. Should lists be able to become good articles or should they just shoot for Featured List status? P.S. In this case it doesn't matter as it doesn't have references, but this is a question for the future.-- SeizureDog 06:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
In response to the discussion above,I cobbled together the following {{ Good article}}. I tested it on this page Necktie. Comments, pejoratives, alleluia's? -- Avi 18:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Ah well, I did not realize this had been tried before. Can someone point me to where the archived deletion discussion is? I cannot find it for some reason (I've checked a few weeks in May and April) -- Avi 19:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I am wondering if we can't modify the instructions a bit for submissions. In the case of a repeat submission, there's no instruction to remove {{FailedGA}} - so we get talk pages like Talk:Lusty Lady where the result of being failed twice is having 2 failure notices (and when the article was submitted, it had both nomination and failed notices). Bugmuncher 22:38, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
As long as WE know what to do it shouldn't be a problem right? You fix the number when you fail or pass it.-- SeizureDog 23:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Should articles be peer reviewed before they are nominated for Good Article status? I submitted a Good Article nomination (for the Dispatcher article) without thinking about the PR process. Now, I'm considering whether I should withdraw that nomination and do a PR first. Any thoughts? -- backburner001 16:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Navigation popups - the universal panacea. Get your copy while stocks last!, This is a fantastic tool everyone should have. Especially if you enjoy reviewing GA and FA articles. Thank you User:Lupin.
What it does is create small popup windows with details from the wiki link while you hover your mouse pointer over the link. Great for checking copyrights of images, cites, etc Gnangarra 06:30, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I have a stupid question about this whole section. Where do you actually place your votes? There doesn't seem to be any actual voting going on on this page. Is it just on the talk page of the articles? I'm confused... bob rulz 21:27, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Another stupid question: I just read the template thing at the top and all it has to do is be approved by a single person? How exactly does that work and what really makes it any different from how we did it before? When people just added the good article template to the article without anybody else's approval? Is it just to make it more organized and perhaps a bit more "official?" bob rulz 21:31, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Why did Cloud Strife and Aerith Gainsborough get deleted? They were on here for a little while now, and other Final Fantasy articles are still on the list. These two shouldn't have been delisted.
I was under the impression these articles were all passed, at least, that's what I remember the edit summaries saying. This is the page for nominating good articles, not for displaying articles which are already good articles. Homestarmy 22:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes i passed them-- Childzy ( Talk| Contribs) 22:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I acciently deleted some good articles. Can someone retrieve them somehow? -- homer s
Would anyone object to my writing out guidelines for placing articles on hold in the "Guidlines for Editors" sections of the GA Nominations page?-- SomeStrang e r( t) 01:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Here is what I propose:
Criteria for On Hold listings:
Feel free to add/remove things from the list above. I think that with the "on hold" system we turn Good articles into more of a peer review type process. I think that the lack of nominator involvement (where one nominator will blindly nominate 20 or so articles and never look back) needs to be dealt with, and implementing the above guidelines should provide an incentive to pay attention to the nominated article.-- SomeStrang e r( t) 03:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
First we need to clarify how many criteria that needs to fall in order to fail an article or what kind of minor adjustments need to be made by the article's editor that we can wait for. Secondly, if the article is on hold and a second person see that it has major flaws the prior assessor didn't realize can he fail the article anyway. How long should we wait for the Hold (a week would be enough ... if there is no response). Lincher 03:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Something else has arisen, is it OK that when I fail articles I let people know that they should re-nominate as soon as the articles have met the failing criteria? Lincher 03:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
What about this..
If the instructions get to wordy then it will be ignored or cause confusion. I think that specific criteria for holding an artcile isnt required when you review an article you know from experience what should be a quick fix. The message when an artcile is failed should only be the reason. I dont think saying that GA is a serious process and the nominator should be more involved in future nominations. isnt warranted when failing an article. This should be one of the conditions for nomination. Gnangarra 05:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion there are way too many articles being put on hold, and for reasons which ought to be a fail. For example, Francis Crick is on hold because it has a cleanup tag. It's been tagged cleanup since April!! Let's keep the list moving and not clog it up with obvious failures. -- kingboyk 15:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I think the "On Hold" option should only be used for things such as reference style issues and fair use quibbles (among other things), it's gone into overboard now. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 16:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to add to the new guidelines that another reviewer may fail and remove "on hold" items if s/he considers the problems with the article to be non-trivial. (It may not even be necessary, as any editor in good standing can fail an article, and that ought to apply whether it's on hold or not). My concern is simply to not have placing articles on hold become an easy alternative to failing. If the article has tiny problems, absolutely place it on hold (or even pass it, with comments, if the problem is super-trivial). What we don't want is to have 5 or 10 articles on hold at any one time clogging up the system. Thoughts? -- kingboyk 13:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
A quick look at several listed articles whose titles mean nothing to me shows that they're about this or that in some "fictional universe" or whatever. I may have overlooked something, but they don't seem to observe this part of WIaGA. I can't pretend that I have any interest in articles about Star Wars, Star Trek, Dragonball, etc etc etc etc etc, but I'm willing to look through the occasional one to see if significance outside the "fictional universe" [is] established and discussed and to check that The focus of the article should remain on discussing the subject as fiction within the context of "our" universe, not on establishing it as a "real" topic in a fictional universe (quotes from WIaGA). If I do this, and if I see that no, the focus of the particular article does not remain on discussing the sunbject as fiction within the context of "our" universe, may/should I fail it? Or do we only pay lip-service to this requirement for a good article? -- Hoary 14:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
People are still merrily adding nominations that to my mind don't even make a token attempt to meet this criterion. The polite thing to do would be to ignore this failure and call these articles good on the strength of their undeniable earnestness, which would lead to the bizarre result that a large percentage of the "good articles" on culture, etc., would be fancruft unlikely to be of any interest outside those (passionate) fanbases. Other solutions include deleting this criterion for "good articles", which would be tantamount to saying that this or that "fictional universe" (most of which aren't of much interest other than to young anglophone males) is of equal significance to the very real universe: odd in something purporting to be an encyclopedia. Yet another possibility is to put all these applications "on hold" for not meeting the criterion, but this would imply that they're easily salvageable, whereas they aren't; rather, their very existence often seems to represent a rejection of the criterion. -- Hoary 08:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Strawberry Panic! ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) This article was passed within minutes of listing by somebody who had the article watchlisted. I don't think I would have promoted it, for the reasons stated on the talk page. I'm not sure, however, if my objections are sufficient to delist it. Perhaps I'm being too critical? :) Therefore, I'd like a 3rd opinion: if 3rd opinion is to pass, fine, if fail, we'll have to delist. -- kingboyk 14:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
First of all, where are the Long articles ... they take longer to assess so they need to be in another category. Secondly, the Nomination categories doesn't even fit with the new layout. Thirdly, there are so many overlap between the sections that there is no point in having any sections so that people will be messed up and place their article in whatever section they like or in the miscellanious section thus the reviewer will have to move it back in the right section. It would be nice, having considered my opinion, to bring the old style back and maybe discuss to get a consensus for the move pertaining to the sectionning of GAN. Lincher 14:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I really think long articles need to be listed separately. They take longer to review, and in my opinion should be discouraged anyway, because they push GA more towards being merely a lesser FA than a list of excellent content which is unlikely to become featured - the stated aim of the process. Having a separate nomination page for them could be an alternative, if people don't like a long articles section on this one. Worldtraveller 13:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I’d like to suggest more categories for nominations. Here’s one possible set-up.
I'm going to stick a big red notice on the page informing people of the importance of proper edit summaries, because nearly everyone is ignoring the protocol and it's really annoying. If anyone thinks it's overkill, feel free to remove it, but something needs to be done. -- Run! 14:29, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
I've seen people reviewing articles now who don't even bother to say a word on the talk page, not even a "This is a good article" five word sentence, and it occurs to me the pass instructions don't actually say anything about explaining yourself when you promote article. Can we have another step there that reads "Explain your decision on the article talk page" or something like that? Because when I see articles like Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg that have been passed with no explanation whatsoever, I begin to be concerned that the system really is turning into just a pat on the back -___- Homestarmy 19:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Featured Articles and Good Articles are both Wikipedia processes to recognize quality articles. I created a proposal for greater co-ordination and integration between the two processes, so that both processes will be more successful in their aim of recognizing quality articles. Please read and participate in the discussion on the village pump. Thanks. -- J.L.W.S. The Special One 13:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't know, just look at the long articles list. 66 right now, there are around three additions a day, and the top of the list has remained the same for three days. Can we discuss a bigger size so the long articles list gets less weight? -- Enano275 17:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't think long articles should have a seperate category. All articles, regardless of length, should be categorized according to topic. A better idea would be to keep long articles in their respective categories but to mark them as long. In addition, although not many articles are over 20kb, most Wikipedia articles are not of stellar quality either.
I don't agree that Good Articles caters mostly to short articles, as a considerable percentage of Good Articles are very long. The three articles I nominated that were promoted - Chelsea F.C., Criticism of Microsoft and Gmail - were well over 32kb. I think long good articles should be considered "potential featured articles". Due to the stringent Featured Article standards, I don't see how "these articles will be sent to the FA process because they can reach this status more easily than the GA one". The Featured Article criteria is more specific while the Good Article criteria is more general; articles which are good generally, and meet the Good Article criteria but are not Featured Article quality due to specific issues should be nominated to Good Article, and when it becomes a good article, more will work on making it featured.
In addition, Good Articles also caters to articles which are unlikely to ever become featured. A possible reason, is, as stated, that they aren't long enough, possibly because there is insufficient coverage on the article's topic for the article to become long. In addition, sub-articles are very unlikely to become featured. For example, Mozilla Firefox is featured, but History of Mozilla Firefox is unlikely to ever become featured, as a sub-article. Microsoft is a featured article, but Criticism of Microsoft is unlikely to ever become featured because it's a sub-article, more so, a POV fork. Such articles, however, can become good articles - I nominated Criticism of Microsoft and it was promoted. -- J.L.W.S. The Special One 12:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Why is this page located at Wikipedia:Good articles/Nominations? It seems to me that it would make much more sense to have it at Wikipedia:Good article candidates (or Wikipedia:Good article nominations) to keep it consistent with Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. Shall we move it? Coffee 16:55, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, since it seems to be uncontroversial, I'll go ahead and move the page. Coffee 04:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Apologies. In the edit summary a yesterday, I put Nagorno-Karabakh War as failed when it had in fact passed. Just a note to understand. Iola k ana| T 11:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Why on earth can't we settle on what to do with long articles and LEAVE THINGS THAT WAY? This is at least the second major reshuffle in a month. Let's have a vote and settle it once and for all for crying out loud. I prefer them in separate sections, but for now I just settle for things being stable. Rlevse 19:13, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, this is a wiki and things are expected to evolve. Maurreen 16:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Brief thought: why don't we add a bit at the end of the nomination proceedure encouraging (note: not requiring) nominees to pick a different article from the list to review themselves. This would,
WP:MEDCAB does something similar. Thoughts? -- jwanders Talk 03:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Jwanders added a TOC but I think it's a bit confusing. Half of it links to stuff above the TOC, and clicking on a TOC link doesn't exactly take you to any of them without a bit of confusion. The only thing that a TOC really needs is the nominations categories, and these are already listed in the instructions box. -- Run! 08:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that with articles that have WP 1.0 assessments in project banners that when a reviewer passes GA they may or may not update the project tags accordingly. When Raul passes FACs he does update those banners now. Perhaps an extra sentence in the passing procedure is needed on the lines of: "If an article has an Wikipedia 1.0 assessment change the class= parameter to class=GA in addition to adding {{ GA}}." When a B, Start, Stub or Unassessed class article passes a GAN it should also be promoted to GA-class, so Mathbot can pick it up in its runs. It might also be an idea (though this is more contentious) to drop an A-class assessed article to B-class if it fails at GAN, and add instructions to that effect. That is because GA-class is between A and B, if it cannot pass a GAN it shouldn't be A-class IMO.-- Nilfanion ( talk) 14:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
When we're evaluating the stability of an article, do we discount vandalism, esp. if it is promptly reversed? This is my operating assumption. Before I act on it, I thought I'd see if I'm on the same page with you all. (I'm a newbie here, after all, please don't bite! 8-) )-- CTSWyneken (talk) 22:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I've reviewed three article here so far ( History of Money, American and British English spelling differences and Solar System) and ended up failing them all. Is that typical of other reviewer's experience, or am I perhaps being too harsh? -- jwanders Talk 00:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Further up the talk page someone suggested that the nominations categories should be the same as the Good Article categories, as this would help people specialise when reviewing and it would also make it very simple to promote an article to the GA list. Before we move to vote... what do people think? (i reposted this because there didn't seem to be any interest or no-one was watching that particular section) -- Run! 07:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I support, in order of preference: A, D, C, B plange 18:08, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Do you think my article Basketball (ball) Good article criteria. -- Showmanship is the key 15:46, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Cyclone Tracy was stripped of FA status yesterday (see the FAR commentary) and I submitted it to GA to see if in its current state it met WIAGA. It has already been promoted and I feel a bit dissatisfied with how it has been handled. At the time it was the last entry in the geography list and it was promoted by an anon whose only edits were those needed to pass the article (incidentally it is in the wrong place on the GA list). I was hoping that it would get some constructive feedback which would help with improving it further.-- Nilfanion ( talk) 11:31, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I've been wondering about this since I first found the good article project, and after been involved with it over the past week, have decided to bring it up here. I'm concerned that as good article's are only reviewed by one user and thus good article status is highly dependant on that one user, that there will end up being a large variation in quality between one "good article" and another. If the low end of this variation dips too far, the value of being promoted as a GA will obviously become diluted.
The problem is that (as far as I know) we have no formal process for monitoring how bad the worst articles passing GA are. For all we know, there could be sock puppets nominating articles so their actual users can log in and pass them. Without some sort of quality monitoring on the process, we could end up discovering that the GA badge has become all but worthless.
I expect this point was brought up and discussed ad nauseum as the GA process was being set up; I did browse through some of the talk page archives around the project, but didn't see it. If it has and someone could point me to it, I'd be more than happy to read through the previous discussion instead of forcing it to be rehashed here ;-) -- jwanders Talk 20:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Looks to me as if the links within the categories (i.e. the links that say "your addition here") should be edited to point to "Good article candidates" rather than "Good articles". The redirection gives an odd outcome -- an edit comes up, but saving it shows you the redirect page. I don't quite see what's going on there, but presumably changing the links would fix it. I'm posting a note here simply because I'm not certain I really understand what's going on; if someone can enlighten me that would be fine. If nobody responds in a day or two I'll probably just go ahead and try to fix it myself. Mike Christie 03:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
When people add this to the side of the article, is there any point in doing so? Is it not just easier to move the article to the #Long articles section? Iola k ana| T 14:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I move to make writing a section on the article detailing the review mandatory instead of optional, it doesn't have to be anything fancy or drawn out, but i've seen too many articles passed with no comment at all to tell anyone whether or not the article is, in fact, representative of a good article. Homestarmy 20:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
My suggestion would be, when passing or failing an article, to leave a note on the article's talk page, which would explain which of the good article criteria it meets, or doesn't meet.
Recently, a relative newcomer posted a request for feedback on his new article, Basketball (ball). I told him that the article was excellent, but pointed a couple of problems that needed to be adddresses. He then fixed some problems and posted on my talk page asking me whether the article met the Good Article criteria.
Please read the reply I left on my talk page - it's an example of the type of note I'm talking about.
-- J.L.W.S. The Special One 03:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
The instruction set revision's up! (To any that weren't aware of it, it was discussed and refined in the "Encourage..." section above; feel free to bring up any concerns regarding the new version here!) -- jwanders Talk 06:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
The Good Article process underemphasizes an important aspect of the Featured Article criteria: length defined as "staying tightly focused on the main topic without going into unnecessary detail." The Good Article page mentions "proper length", but making articles the appropriate length is very important for improving wikipedia's usability. The appropriate length for a given topic is based on what the length and level of detail the reader wants in the editor's judgement. Some of the articles being nominated are obsessively long, which doesn't lead to a good encyclopedia. Editing for length (even if it means deleting less important content) is an important part of good writing, especially for an encyclopedia. Reducing length is not that difficult and does not require much specialized knowledge. We should probably be putting more nominations On Hold while they are trimmed down. Ghosts&empties 07:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I made some comments and questions concerning the quality standards of GAs on the project talk page. I am not sure if that is the right place to talk about it as I noticed the discussion is not too lively there. Seeing that there are more project members here, I ask if someone would take a look at the link. I am somewhat concerned as it appears a significant portion of existing GAs did not pass through the nomination process at all! Or am I mistaken? -- RelHistBuff 13:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
If there is going to be an audit group or page, it might be good to start with the oldest GAs and then work from there. That should ensure that they all get a second look, and the oldest would have the most time to have changed in either direction. Maurreen 17:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
How do you mean? Anyone can participate in FAC, which says it is decided by consensus. Maurreen 16:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
If you are not the nominator or reviewer, can you fail the article if it doesn't answer the reviewer's concerns within a week? I'm asking this because Bionicle has been at the top of the media list for a week now, and it's on hold because Minun thinks it needs a copyedit. It hasn't had a single edit since Aug. 2, 3 days after the on hold notice, and I see no copyedit notices on the article page. Other articles are waiting. - Dark Kubrick 18:50, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
The article Son Goku (Dragon Ball) was recently put up for GA, but it failed. A user nominated it again directly after the fail, before we could get a reason as to why it failed. Once we did get one, though, we saw that the article needed alot of work. I don't want the talk page to get another failed GA template, as it will make it look bad and the decision to re-list it was never discussed. I was wondering if somone would be kind enough to remove it from the list so we can work on it (delaying it won't work, we need alot more than 7 days). Thanks.-- Koji Dude 21:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Just to let everyone know that I ordered some entries that were not chronological after the long category was removed. I hope it doesn't cause any problem. -- enano ( Talk) 18:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I've encountered one case in which the active editors were unaware of the GA nomination because the template was never put on the talk page, and another case in which at least one active editor on the article feels it is weeks away from a GA nom. A "failed" nomination in these cases seems a little overboard. I actually wonder if the "failed" template is a good idea at all; since it does not link to any subpage (like a failed FAC), it doesn't seem to serve any purpose, and can appear rather prejudicial. Opinions? Gimmetrow 22:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Have any of the previous versions of the categorisation really been all that wrong? I'm getting slightly dizzy trying to find where things I've put up here for review have gotten to (most recently because sport has moved from 'social' to 'everyday life'). I'm not proposing it be moved back, however, just observing that all systems of categorisation will be wrong for some cases and perhaps it's now time to just stick with one for a few months and see how it goes? (thanks to everyone for their efforts in passing/failing, by the way :-)) -- 4u1e 20:32, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
The new sectionning looks good. Thanks to those who gave a helpful hand in changing them. Lincher 18:17, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
With the amount of natural disaster stuff coming through (currently all chucked at history - Hurricane Charley, July 2006 Java quake, Typhoon Ewiniar, 2003 A.H.S., Hurricane Danny and Hurricane Nate), should there be a new section for such articles? Chacor 07:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
That's the problem, no-one knows where to put it. It could technically fit in all three categories, thus qualifying it for a 4th - misc. nominations. Chacor 13:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Please pay attention to your edits on the nomination page. Articles on hold drop off without being closed out properly, hold lines mysteriously move under an article they are not associated with, etc. Rlevse 12:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
It seems WP:LEAD was recently changed to no longer include the "3-5 paragraphs long" part, now it's some weird guideline thing at the bottom based loosely on character count, (No idea how to check that, copy-pasting into word wouldn't work because of headers and pictures) just thought i'd say something because I often failed articles which were above five paragraph leads :/. Homestarmy 15:09, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This page is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Okay, I've noticed that there are a lot of "close, needs 1-2 more edits" remarks on talk pages of articles at the top. Not fail, not quite pass... I will start boldly marking these as "pending" or "hold" so that people can go to the next one. Any other ideas? — Rob ( talk) 01:42, 4 May 2006 (UTC)
I noticed that Tom Cousineau and maybe a few other articles failed GA status because it had no images. Problem with some of those articles especially ones of sports stars of the 70s and 80s is that there is absolutely no free images avalible for them, is this a vaild reason to oppose a GA, having no images?. Note Jack Tatum currently nominated is having the same thing, no free images to use. Thanks Jaranda wat's sup 01:07, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
There seems to be a number of existing GAs that don't have nearly enough inline citations, or sometimes a lack of citations at all. So for things like Maritime history of Florida (which I passed earlier) and Operation Market Garden (which I'm about to review), which are both highly informative articles that happen to lack inline citations, I am inclined to give the articles the benefit of the doubt, take the references at their word and leave off specific inline citations for the FA process (which obviously would require citations, inline or otherwise). — Rob ( talk) 19:39, 5 May 2006 (UTC)
Technically inline references aren't even strictly necessary for FAs (they'd take Harvard references too, for instance). A link farm isn't good enough, obviously, but a dedicated and properly formatted "references" or "bibliography" section is generally considered good enough. The longer the article and the more sources used, I guess the more important inline citations would be. TheGrappler 22:18, 6 May 2006 (UTC)
It seems that there are a lot of articles out there that are exceptionally well-written and comprehensive, yet lack references. Examples include Geographic information system and Tuatara.
I propose creating a project like Good Articles that raises awareness of these articles and allows those who are interested to work on them. - Samsara ( talk • contribs) 18:04, 8 May 2006 (UTC)
I propose to change the following section:
If you see an article below under "Nominations" that you don't consider to
meet the criteria:
{{subst:gan-fail|(reason)}} ~~~~
To:
If you see an article below under "Nominations" that you don't consider to
meet the criteria:
Samsara (
talk •
contribs) 10:46, 17 May 2006 (UTC)
WHen reviewing an article the nomination really requires to be tagged so that the next person doesn't spend time reviewing the same article only to find that it's been promoted/failed. Suggest that -- pending Gnangarra 01:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC) be tagged after the articles nomination. Then another reviewer knows who is reviewing and when they started, if the reviewer is unable to complete straight away or waiting for a fix then they a note on the articles talk page of where they are at. There nothing worse than spending 1 or 2 hours reviewing, checking ref and image tags only to find it got promoted. Gnangarra 01:03, 27 May 2006 (UTC)
I removed Stockholm, but reinserted it again, as I currently don't have the time/interest to go through the Peer Review process and I couldn't find anywhere else to have it graded. / Fred- Chess 15:11, 31 May 2006 (UTC)
It sounds like it's missing something but I can't clearly put my finger on it. It sounds half-POV, half-NPOV so I'm not sure. As for the references, there aren't enough but is looks good for GA. Would somebody give it a review too. Lincher 22:38, 4 June 2006 (UTC)
It should be removed since people don't tend to categorize articles in this category, plus the fact that almost all the categories have some articles that are 25kb in them. Lincher 11:40, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
Currently, there are 997 featured articles and 1060 good articles. This suggests that there are many "good" articles out there which have not been spotted or nominated.
This is possibly because more Wikipedians are aware about featured articles. Everyone would like their articles to be featured! However, comparitively few Wikipedians have a goal of getting a good article, and probably fewer Wikipedians know about trhe Good Articles project (compared to the Featured Articles project).
Therefore we should have a Good Article Drive where we read articles and nominate deserving, but unspotted, potential Good Articles. I have nominated Criticism of Microsoft, Chelsea F.C., Gmail and RuneScape.
It is noteworthy that Gmail is a former featured article candidate, and RuneScape's current Good Article nomination is doomed to failure. Given that Featured Article standards are very high, and Wikipedians often wish to see more featured articles, many Featured Article nominations fail. I suggest we review Featured Article nominations. If they are not good enough for Featured Article, but are good enough for Good Article, we could suggest the nominator nominate the article for Good Article instead.
If the purpose of the Good Article project is to spot potential featured articles and develop them into actual featured articles, then, shortly after an article becomes a Good Article, it should be sent for Peer Review so that minor problems can be fixed and it can become a Featured Article.
In addition, although Good Articles is supposed to be an informal proccess, I think allowing a single reviewer to pass the articles is a little too lenient. Right now, I could pass all the Good Article nominations. 3 reviewers would be better. This would also allow reviewers to give feedback on the article and point out what's good and bad about it. This is especially so if the Good Articles project aims to spot and improve potential Featured Articles.
-- J.L.W.S. The Special One 12:23, 6 June 2006 (UTC)
[1] [2] Please reword my additions, as I believe I did not phrase them in the best possible way. In addition, I don't know how to get the words into the box (where I want it to be) on the FAC page. Could some wiki markup expert help me there? -- J.L.W.S. The Special One 10:02, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
I have a suggestion, as mentioned on the good article talk page i believe that there should be the good article image in the top right hand corner of the article. Without it people have no idea if the article is good or not, unless they check the talk and lets be honest who does that?. If featured articles can have a star in the corner why cant we have the good article in the top corner. I would make it myself but I'm not to good at that stuff. I do remember a bit ago seeing the icon in the corner of the lost article, had the template been deleted??? If somebody will make one i will add it to all 1000 of the good articles, it doesnt bother me but it just needs making.-- Childzy 09:17, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Good articles may not be the "cream of the crop" but they are better than the rest of the articles on wikipedia and need recognizing as being so , also a lot of featured articles are good articles first. Who can we complain to higher up in wikidom to get things changed??-- Childzy 18:07, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I think we should replace the Random Article button in the navigation bar with a button that links to the GA page and put it below the FA button. It is after all better than getting a stub or disambig page and it gives an ever increasing variety. Also promoting the good articles list is the job of the Wikiproject good articles so if you have anymore suggestions do bring it up there, we could use more brilliant ideas like the Good article collaboratin of the week. Tarret 19:43, 11 June 2006 (UTC)
I see List of titles and honours of Elizabeth II of the United Kingdom is a nominee and I'm tempted to fail it on the grounds of it being a list. We don't really have a "good list" award so I seems kinda odd. Should lists be able to become good articles or should they just shoot for Featured List status? P.S. In this case it doesn't matter as it doesn't have references, but this is a question for the future.-- SeizureDog 06:00, 7 June 2006 (UTC)
In response to the discussion above,I cobbled together the following {{ Good article}}. I tested it on this page Necktie. Comments, pejoratives, alleluia's? -- Avi 18:43, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
Ah well, I did not realize this had been tried before. Can someone point me to where the archived deletion discussion is? I cannot find it for some reason (I've checked a few weeks in May and April) -- Avi 19:08, 8 June 2006 (UTC)
I am wondering if we can't modify the instructions a bit for submissions. In the case of a repeat submission, there's no instruction to remove {{FailedGA}} - so we get talk pages like Talk:Lusty Lady where the result of being failed twice is having 2 failure notices (and when the article was submitted, it had both nomination and failed notices). Bugmuncher 22:38, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
As long as WE know what to do it shouldn't be a problem right? You fix the number when you fail or pass it.-- SeizureDog 23:15, 9 June 2006 (UTC)
Should articles be peer reviewed before they are nominated for Good Article status? I submitted a Good Article nomination (for the Dispatcher article) without thinking about the PR process. Now, I'm considering whether I should withdraw that nomination and do a PR first. Any thoughts? -- backburner001 16:10, 10 June 2006 (UTC)
Navigation popups - the universal panacea. Get your copy while stocks last!, This is a fantastic tool everyone should have. Especially if you enjoy reviewing GA and FA articles. Thank you User:Lupin.
What it does is create small popup windows with details from the wiki link while you hover your mouse pointer over the link. Great for checking copyrights of images, cites, etc Gnangarra 06:30, 13 June 2006 (UTC)
Well, I have a stupid question about this whole section. Where do you actually place your votes? There doesn't seem to be any actual voting going on on this page. Is it just on the talk page of the articles? I'm confused... bob rulz 21:27, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Another stupid question: I just read the template thing at the top and all it has to do is be approved by a single person? How exactly does that work and what really makes it any different from how we did it before? When people just added the good article template to the article without anybody else's approval? Is it just to make it more organized and perhaps a bit more "official?" bob rulz 21:31, 17 June 2006 (UTC)
Why did Cloud Strife and Aerith Gainsborough get deleted? They were on here for a little while now, and other Final Fantasy articles are still on the list. These two shouldn't have been delisted.
I was under the impression these articles were all passed, at least, that's what I remember the edit summaries saying. This is the page for nominating good articles, not for displaying articles which are already good articles. Homestarmy 22:33, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
Yes i passed them-- Childzy ( Talk| Contribs) 22:35, 20 June 2006 (UTC)
I acciently deleted some good articles. Can someone retrieve them somehow? -- homer s
Would anyone object to my writing out guidelines for placing articles on hold in the "Guidlines for Editors" sections of the GA Nominations page?-- SomeStrang e r( t) 01:14, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Here is what I propose:
Criteria for On Hold listings:
Feel free to add/remove things from the list above. I think that with the "on hold" system we turn Good articles into more of a peer review type process. I think that the lack of nominator involvement (where one nominator will blindly nominate 20 or so articles and never look back) needs to be dealt with, and implementing the above guidelines should provide an incentive to pay attention to the nominated article.-- SomeStrang e r( t) 03:54, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
First we need to clarify how many criteria that needs to fall in order to fail an article or what kind of minor adjustments need to be made by the article's editor that we can wait for. Secondly, if the article is on hold and a second person see that it has major flaws the prior assessor didn't realize can he fail the article anyway. How long should we wait for the Hold (a week would be enough ... if there is no response). Lincher 03:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
Something else has arisen, is it OK that when I fail articles I let people know that they should re-nominate as soon as the articles have met the failing criteria? Lincher 03:32, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
What about this..
If the instructions get to wordy then it will be ignored or cause confusion. I think that specific criteria for holding an artcile isnt required when you review an article you know from experience what should be a quick fix. The message when an artcile is failed should only be the reason. I dont think saying that GA is a serious process and the nominator should be more involved in future nominations. isnt warranted when failing an article. This should be one of the conditions for nomination. Gnangarra 05:58, 22 June 2006 (UTC)
In my opinion there are way too many articles being put on hold, and for reasons which ought to be a fail. For example, Francis Crick is on hold because it has a cleanup tag. It's been tagged cleanup since April!! Let's keep the list moving and not clog it up with obvious failures. -- kingboyk 15:29, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I think the "On Hold" option should only be used for things such as reference style issues and fair use quibbles (among other things), it's gone into overboard now. H ig hway Rainbow Sneakers 16:31, 24 June 2006 (UTC)
I'd like to add to the new guidelines that another reviewer may fail and remove "on hold" items if s/he considers the problems with the article to be non-trivial. (It may not even be necessary, as any editor in good standing can fail an article, and that ought to apply whether it's on hold or not). My concern is simply to not have placing articles on hold become an easy alternative to failing. If the article has tiny problems, absolutely place it on hold (or even pass it, with comments, if the problem is super-trivial). What we don't want is to have 5 or 10 articles on hold at any one time clogging up the system. Thoughts? -- kingboyk 13:13, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
A quick look at several listed articles whose titles mean nothing to me shows that they're about this or that in some "fictional universe" or whatever. I may have overlooked something, but they don't seem to observe this part of WIaGA. I can't pretend that I have any interest in articles about Star Wars, Star Trek, Dragonball, etc etc etc etc etc, but I'm willing to look through the occasional one to see if significance outside the "fictional universe" [is] established and discussed and to check that The focus of the article should remain on discussing the subject as fiction within the context of "our" universe, not on establishing it as a "real" topic in a fictional universe (quotes from WIaGA). If I do this, and if I see that no, the focus of the particular article does not remain on discussing the sunbject as fiction within the context of "our" universe, may/should I fail it? Or do we only pay lip-service to this requirement for a good article? -- Hoary 14:36, 25 June 2006 (UTC)
People are still merrily adding nominations that to my mind don't even make a token attempt to meet this criterion. The polite thing to do would be to ignore this failure and call these articles good on the strength of their undeniable earnestness, which would lead to the bizarre result that a large percentage of the "good articles" on culture, etc., would be fancruft unlikely to be of any interest outside those (passionate) fanbases. Other solutions include deleting this criterion for "good articles", which would be tantamount to saying that this or that "fictional universe" (most of which aren't of much interest other than to young anglophone males) is of equal significance to the very real universe: odd in something purporting to be an encyclopedia. Yet another possibility is to put all these applications "on hold" for not meeting the criterion, but this would imply that they're easily salvageable, whereas they aren't; rather, their very existence often seems to represent a rejection of the criterion. -- Hoary 08:08, 2 July 2006 (UTC)
Strawberry Panic! ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) This article was passed within minutes of listing by somebody who had the article watchlisted. I don't think I would have promoted it, for the reasons stated on the talk page. I'm not sure, however, if my objections are sufficient to delist it. Perhaps I'm being too critical? :) Therefore, I'd like a 3rd opinion: if 3rd opinion is to pass, fine, if fail, we'll have to delist. -- kingboyk 14:02, 29 June 2006 (UTC)
First of all, where are the Long articles ... they take longer to assess so they need to be in another category. Secondly, the Nomination categories doesn't even fit with the new layout. Thirdly, there are so many overlap between the sections that there is no point in having any sections so that people will be messed up and place their article in whatever section they like or in the miscellanious section thus the reviewer will have to move it back in the right section. It would be nice, having considered my opinion, to bring the old style back and maybe discuss to get a consensus for the move pertaining to the sectionning of GAN. Lincher 14:28, 30 June 2006 (UTC)
I really think long articles need to be listed separately. They take longer to review, and in my opinion should be discouraged anyway, because they push GA more towards being merely a lesser FA than a list of excellent content which is unlikely to become featured - the stated aim of the process. Having a separate nomination page for them could be an alternative, if people don't like a long articles section on this one. Worldtraveller 13:52, 5 July 2006 (UTC)
I’d like to suggest more categories for nominations. Here’s one possible set-up.
I'm going to stick a big red notice on the page informing people of the importance of proper edit summaries, because nearly everyone is ignoring the protocol and it's really annoying. If anyone thinks it's overkill, feel free to remove it, but something needs to be done. -- Run! 14:29, 19 July 2006 (UTC)
I've seen people reviewing articles now who don't even bother to say a word on the talk page, not even a "This is a good article" five word sentence, and it occurs to me the pass instructions don't actually say anything about explaining yourself when you promote article. Can we have another step there that reads "Explain your decision on the article talk page" or something like that? Because when I see articles like Charles Etienne Brasseur de Bourbourg that have been passed with no explanation whatsoever, I begin to be concerned that the system really is turning into just a pat on the back -___- Homestarmy 19:34, 21 July 2006 (UTC)
Featured Articles and Good Articles are both Wikipedia processes to recognize quality articles. I created a proposal for greater co-ordination and integration between the two processes, so that both processes will be more successful in their aim of recognizing quality articles. Please read and participate in the discussion on the village pump. Thanks. -- J.L.W.S. The Special One 13:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't know, just look at the long articles list. 66 right now, there are around three additions a day, and the top of the list has remained the same for three days. Can we discuss a bigger size so the long articles list gets less weight? -- Enano275 17:49, 25 July 2006 (UTC)
I don't think long articles should have a seperate category. All articles, regardless of length, should be categorized according to topic. A better idea would be to keep long articles in their respective categories but to mark them as long. In addition, although not many articles are over 20kb, most Wikipedia articles are not of stellar quality either.
I don't agree that Good Articles caters mostly to short articles, as a considerable percentage of Good Articles are very long. The three articles I nominated that were promoted - Chelsea F.C., Criticism of Microsoft and Gmail - were well over 32kb. I think long good articles should be considered "potential featured articles". Due to the stringent Featured Article standards, I don't see how "these articles will be sent to the FA process because they can reach this status more easily than the GA one". The Featured Article criteria is more specific while the Good Article criteria is more general; articles which are good generally, and meet the Good Article criteria but are not Featured Article quality due to specific issues should be nominated to Good Article, and when it becomes a good article, more will work on making it featured.
In addition, Good Articles also caters to articles which are unlikely to ever become featured. A possible reason, is, as stated, that they aren't long enough, possibly because there is insufficient coverage on the article's topic for the article to become long. In addition, sub-articles are very unlikely to become featured. For example, Mozilla Firefox is featured, but History of Mozilla Firefox is unlikely to ever become featured, as a sub-article. Microsoft is a featured article, but Criticism of Microsoft is unlikely to ever become featured because it's a sub-article, more so, a POV fork. Such articles, however, can become good articles - I nominated Criticism of Microsoft and it was promoted. -- J.L.W.S. The Special One 12:22, 27 July 2006 (UTC)
Why is this page located at Wikipedia:Good articles/Nominations? It seems to me that it would make much more sense to have it at Wikipedia:Good article candidates (or Wikipedia:Good article nominations) to keep it consistent with Wikipedia:Featured article candidates. Shall we move it? Coffee 16:55, 28 July 2006 (UTC)
Ok, since it seems to be uncontroversial, I'll go ahead and move the page. Coffee 04:50, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Apologies. In the edit summary a yesterday, I put Nagorno-Karabakh War as failed when it had in fact passed. Just a note to understand. Iola k ana| T 11:16, 29 July 2006 (UTC)
Why on earth can't we settle on what to do with long articles and LEAVE THINGS THAT WAY? This is at least the second major reshuffle in a month. Let's have a vote and settle it once and for all for crying out loud. I prefer them in separate sections, but for now I just settle for things being stable. Rlevse 19:13, 31 July 2006 (UTC)
Yes, this is a wiki and things are expected to evolve. Maurreen 16:07, 1 August 2006 (UTC)
Brief thought: why don't we add a bit at the end of the nomination proceedure encouraging (note: not requiring) nominees to pick a different article from the list to review themselves. This would,
WP:MEDCAB does something similar. Thoughts? -- jwanders Talk 03:43, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
Jwanders added a TOC but I think it's a bit confusing. Half of it links to stuff above the TOC, and clicking on a TOC link doesn't exactly take you to any of them without a bit of confusion. The only thing that a TOC really needs is the nominations categories, and these are already listed in the instructions box. -- Run! 08:03, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I've noticed that with articles that have WP 1.0 assessments in project banners that when a reviewer passes GA they may or may not update the project tags accordingly. When Raul passes FACs he does update those banners now. Perhaps an extra sentence in the passing procedure is needed on the lines of: "If an article has an Wikipedia 1.0 assessment change the class= parameter to class=GA in addition to adding {{ GA}}." When a B, Start, Stub or Unassessed class article passes a GAN it should also be promoted to GA-class, so Mathbot can pick it up in its runs. It might also be an idea (though this is more contentious) to drop an A-class assessed article to B-class if it fails at GAN, and add instructions to that effect. That is because GA-class is between A and B, if it cannot pass a GAN it shouldn't be A-class IMO.-- Nilfanion ( talk) 14:45, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
When we're evaluating the stability of an article, do we discount vandalism, esp. if it is promptly reversed? This is my operating assumption. Before I act on it, I thought I'd see if I'm on the same page with you all. (I'm a newbie here, after all, please don't bite! 8-) )-- CTSWyneken (talk) 22:40, 3 August 2006 (UTC)
I've reviewed three article here so far ( History of Money, American and British English spelling differences and Solar System) and ended up failing them all. Is that typical of other reviewer's experience, or am I perhaps being too harsh? -- jwanders Talk 00:13, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Further up the talk page someone suggested that the nominations categories should be the same as the Good Article categories, as this would help people specialise when reviewing and it would also make it very simple to promote an article to the GA list. Before we move to vote... what do people think? (i reposted this because there didn't seem to be any interest or no-one was watching that particular section) -- Run! 07:17, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
I support, in order of preference: A, D, C, B plange 18:08, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Do you think my article Basketball (ball) Good article criteria. -- Showmanship is the key 15:46, 5 August 2006 (UTC)
Cyclone Tracy was stripped of FA status yesterday (see the FAR commentary) and I submitted it to GA to see if in its current state it met WIAGA. It has already been promoted and I feel a bit dissatisfied with how it has been handled. At the time it was the last entry in the geography list and it was promoted by an anon whose only edits were those needed to pass the article (incidentally it is in the wrong place on the GA list). I was hoping that it would get some constructive feedback which would help with improving it further.-- Nilfanion ( talk) 11:31, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
I've been wondering about this since I first found the good article project, and after been involved with it over the past week, have decided to bring it up here. I'm concerned that as good article's are only reviewed by one user and thus good article status is highly dependant on that one user, that there will end up being a large variation in quality between one "good article" and another. If the low end of this variation dips too far, the value of being promoted as a GA will obviously become diluted.
The problem is that (as far as I know) we have no formal process for monitoring how bad the worst articles passing GA are. For all we know, there could be sock puppets nominating articles so their actual users can log in and pass them. Without some sort of quality monitoring on the process, we could end up discovering that the GA badge has become all but worthless.
I expect this point was brought up and discussed ad nauseum as the GA process was being set up; I did browse through some of the talk page archives around the project, but didn't see it. If it has and someone could point me to it, I'd be more than happy to read through the previous discussion instead of forcing it to be rehashed here ;-) -- jwanders Talk 20:59, 6 August 2006 (UTC)
Looks to me as if the links within the categories (i.e. the links that say "your addition here") should be edited to point to "Good article candidates" rather than "Good articles". The redirection gives an odd outcome -- an edit comes up, but saving it shows you the redirect page. I don't quite see what's going on there, but presumably changing the links would fix it. I'm posting a note here simply because I'm not certain I really understand what's going on; if someone can enlighten me that would be fine. If nobody responds in a day or two I'll probably just go ahead and try to fix it myself. Mike Christie 03:05, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
When people add this to the side of the article, is there any point in doing so? Is it not just easier to move the article to the #Long articles section? Iola k ana| T 14:42, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
I move to make writing a section on the article detailing the review mandatory instead of optional, it doesn't have to be anything fancy or drawn out, but i've seen too many articles passed with no comment at all to tell anyone whether or not the article is, in fact, representative of a good article. Homestarmy 20:08, 7 August 2006 (UTC)
My suggestion would be, when passing or failing an article, to leave a note on the article's talk page, which would explain which of the good article criteria it meets, or doesn't meet.
Recently, a relative newcomer posted a request for feedback on his new article, Basketball (ball). I told him that the article was excellent, but pointed a couple of problems that needed to be adddresses. He then fixed some problems and posted on my talk page asking me whether the article met the Good Article criteria.
Please read the reply I left on my talk page - it's an example of the type of note I'm talking about.
-- J.L.W.S. The Special One 03:09, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
The instruction set revision's up! (To any that weren't aware of it, it was discussed and refined in the "Encourage..." section above; feel free to bring up any concerns regarding the new version here!) -- jwanders Talk 06:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
The Good Article process underemphasizes an important aspect of the Featured Article criteria: length defined as "staying tightly focused on the main topic without going into unnecessary detail." The Good Article page mentions "proper length", but making articles the appropriate length is very important for improving wikipedia's usability. The appropriate length for a given topic is based on what the length and level of detail the reader wants in the editor's judgement. Some of the articles being nominated are obsessively long, which doesn't lead to a good encyclopedia. Editing for length (even if it means deleting less important content) is an important part of good writing, especially for an encyclopedia. Reducing length is not that difficult and does not require much specialized knowledge. We should probably be putting more nominations On Hold while they are trimmed down. Ghosts&empties 07:54, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
I made some comments and questions concerning the quality standards of GAs on the project talk page. I am not sure if that is the right place to talk about it as I noticed the discussion is not too lively there. Seeing that there are more project members here, I ask if someone would take a look at the link. I am somewhat concerned as it appears a significant portion of existing GAs did not pass through the nomination process at all! Or am I mistaken? -- RelHistBuff 13:41, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
If there is going to be an audit group or page, it might be good to start with the oldest GAs and then work from there. That should ensure that they all get a second look, and the oldest would have the most time to have changed in either direction. Maurreen 17:01, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
How do you mean? Anyone can participate in FAC, which says it is decided by consensus. Maurreen 16:58, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
If you are not the nominator or reviewer, can you fail the article if it doesn't answer the reviewer's concerns within a week? I'm asking this because Bionicle has been at the top of the media list for a week now, and it's on hold because Minun thinks it needs a copyedit. It hasn't had a single edit since Aug. 2, 3 days after the on hold notice, and I see no copyedit notices on the article page. Other articles are waiting. - Dark Kubrick 18:50, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
The article Son Goku (Dragon Ball) was recently put up for GA, but it failed. A user nominated it again directly after the fail, before we could get a reason as to why it failed. Once we did get one, though, we saw that the article needed alot of work. I don't want the talk page to get another failed GA template, as it will make it look bad and the decision to re-list it was never discussed. I was wondering if somone would be kind enough to remove it from the list so we can work on it (delaying it won't work, we need alot more than 7 days). Thanks.-- Koji Dude 21:20, 8 August 2006 (UTC)
Just to let everyone know that I ordered some entries that were not chronological after the long category was removed. I hope it doesn't cause any problem. -- enano ( Talk) 18:42, 9 August 2006 (UTC)
I've encountered one case in which the active editors were unaware of the GA nomination because the template was never put on the talk page, and another case in which at least one active editor on the article feels it is weeks away from a GA nom. A "failed" nomination in these cases seems a little overboard. I actually wonder if the "failed" template is a good idea at all; since it does not link to any subpage (like a failed FAC), it doesn't seem to serve any purpose, and can appear rather prejudicial. Opinions? Gimmetrow 22:13, 10 August 2006 (UTC)
Have any of the previous versions of the categorisation really been all that wrong? I'm getting slightly dizzy trying to find where things I've put up here for review have gotten to (most recently because sport has moved from 'social' to 'everyday life'). I'm not proposing it be moved back, however, just observing that all systems of categorisation will be wrong for some cases and perhaps it's now time to just stick with one for a few months and see how it goes? (thanks to everyone for their efforts in passing/failing, by the way :-)) -- 4u1e 20:32, 12 August 2006 (UTC)
The new sectionning looks good. Thanks to those who gave a helpful hand in changing them. Lincher 18:17, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
With the amount of natural disaster stuff coming through (currently all chucked at history - Hurricane Charley, July 2006 Java quake, Typhoon Ewiniar, 2003 A.H.S., Hurricane Danny and Hurricane Nate), should there be a new section for such articles? Chacor 07:35, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
That's the problem, no-one knows where to put it. It could technically fit in all three categories, thus qualifying it for a 4th - misc. nominations. Chacor 13:04, 16 August 2006 (UTC)
Please pay attention to your edits on the nomination page. Articles on hold drop off without being closed out properly, hold lines mysteriously move under an article they are not associated with, etc. Rlevse 12:51, 13 August 2006 (UTC)
It seems WP:LEAD was recently changed to no longer include the "3-5 paragraphs long" part, now it's some weird guideline thing at the bottom based loosely on character count, (No idea how to check that, copy-pasting into word wouldn't work because of headers and pictures) just thought i'd say something because I often failed articles which were above five paragraph leads :/. Homestarmy 15:09, 13 August 2006 (UTC)