This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
A lot of the confusion in the topics above stems from the distinction between disambiguation pages (those with nothing but links) and article pages which contain disambiguation (such as {{
otheruses}}). The recently-developed
Manual of Style only applies to disambiguation pages, and the distinction needs to be clearer on this page. There's a third class of pages described here, in which a single page contains stub articles on several uses unrelated meanings of the same word, but current WP practice seems to have moved towards making those all separate stub articles; maybe it's time to reconsider that policy.
I'm planning to work on clarifying these distinctions (after the first-name-page uproar dies down), but now would welcome any thoughts on the subject.— Wahoofive ( talk) 16:27, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm proposing to archive the section "Name disambiguation policy" since it's clear that this proposal isn't going to garner consensus. Please advise if you object to this archiving. This does not resolve the problem of how to handle these first-name pages, although I'm not certain this page is any longer the right venue to resolve that. For the moment I'll leave the section "FND: an alternative guideline". — Wahoofive ( talk) 01:56, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The discussion on the templates (see top of the talk page) is extremely useful - so useful, I think it ought to be included into the article. Any objections? Josh Parris ✉ 02:13, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm working on a draft for a major rewrite of this policy here. The intent of this rewrite is to make the text clearer, not to make any significant changes to the policy. Please comment on the article's talk page. (A side-by-side comparison can be seen here). This draft assumes that we'll come to some consensus eventually about the first-name-article issue; PLEASE don't rehash that issue there. Whatever conclusion we come to here will be reflected on that page. — Wahoofive ( talk) 17:06, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Problem whether to use Tsushima, or Tsushima (disambiguation) for disambiguation in Talk:Tsushima Islands. Mr Tan 05:13, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I've been fixing up a lot of dab and redirect pages lately. While I'm happy to chase down the "What links here" entries and fix them up, I often find links from talk pages, and I'm not quite sure what to do with them. On the one hand, fixing them to point to the right place seems to make sense, but I'm uneasy editing something written in the first person and signed. What's the right thing to do here? RoySmith 3 July 2005 17:51 (UTC)
Are there policies on the titles of disambiguation pages? I personally find it a little irritating when the regular article is a redirect to a disambiguation page (i.e. Yale). Shouldn't we just have the unambiguous page become the disambiguation page? -- DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:11, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
I recently did a bit of shifting around of article contents that has ended up with the creation of A Place in the Sun (disambiguation). I've included in this page a reference to Place in the sun, as well as the titles of the 1951 film and the British TV program. What I'm wondering is whether there is an element of the guideline that addresses when and how to disambiguate articles that are distinguished by the use of articles such as "a" and "the", as is the case here. I've expressed my own opinion in the form of the page I refer to, but don't really want to fly in the face of a consensus solution if one has been identified. As a related note, I'm of the opinion that this is a class of articles that do not really need a guideline to cover, but that they can/should be handled on a one-off basis as they arise; therefore, I'll happily bound on my way if there isn't a guideline. Thanks. Courtland 18:27, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
Could you review First Love and let me know what Guidelines I've violated and need to fix (and please, don't say "all of them" :))? This is an unusual disambiguation page, which is explained in the talk-space for the page. Thanks. Courtland 20:54, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
In the case where certain places are named after other places, the unambiguated article should refer to the originator, right? I have a question because the article at Montserrat is about the carribean island, and by the article's admission, the island is named after the mountain in Spain, whose article is at Montserrat (mountain). I have started a discussion at Talk:Montserrat#Rename. Please let me know if there is clear precedent here. -- DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:04, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
Please see Talk:Planet#Naming for a discussion on the use of disambiguation pages as primary for planets. -- DropDeadGorgias (talk) 21:57, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
I don't understand the 4th method of disambiguation (which I'm sure didn't exist a few months back). Is this meant to be a temporary measure until consensus on one, standing, clear primary topic is found? That's the impression I get. And, I always thought that the main page (e.g. "Mercury") was never meant to be a redirect to a disambiguation page. Can someone explain the purpose? Neonumbers 11:06, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
My very best (and somewhat confused) understanding of User:Jnc/Disambiguation is that its only purpose is to make maintaining the links to the page easier. There are two (former) types of dab: Equal and Primary Topic. If you have Primary Topic, then the links that go to that page may or may not be correctly addressed. To find out, you must go to the page itself, unless its title is really that self-explanatory. With equal, most pages will be incorrectly addressed. To find out, you probably have to visit the page in question and then decide whether or not to change it.
With this proposed, or rather, fourth method, the only difference is that you don't have to sift through the links manually. All it does is eliminates the correct links - a small matter for Equal disambiguation, in my opinion. For Primary Topic disambiguation, this will eliminate hassle only for those which you couldn't tell from the title - the proportion of which I don't know, having never worked in the area.
Dare I say that (imo) the cost caused by confusion and disuniformity (as a user) outweighs the benefits of lesser maintenance. Anyhow, as of yet, this is not a place to discuss the method's validity. It still wasn't discussed properly, and was a major change (not pointing at anyone, btw). I think a month is a short enough time to remove it until a discussion is held and concensus formed. Any chance of that?
And, more importantly, is my second attempt at understanding this right? Neonumbers 09:41, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
So does this method stay or go? Neonumbers 5 July 2005 10:50 (UTC)
I propose that all Primary Topic disambiguation be discouraged. If an article name is ambiguous, there should be no article there.
Instead of putting an article at an ambiguous topic name, a disambiguation page should be created. And at the same time, a Topic (disambiguation) page should be created, redirecting to the Topic page. No article should intentionally link to Topic; if anyone wants to link to the ambiguous concept of Topic they'll link to Topic (disambiguation), which will redirect to Topic. Any inbound links to Topic are ambiguous. Josh Parris ✉ 01:04, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
It comes down to "I'm a bear of little brain". I don't like trying to remember/figure out all over again if a link to the dab page is meant to be there or not. I just want it to go away. No imbound links, no work for me to do. Simple. Josh Parris ✉ 01:49, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
No, I think Primary Topic disambiguation's a very good method, especially when there's a Primary Topic. If there is dispute over which, then obviously that's not what you'll be using. But in many cases, there won't be dispute. I mean, if someone should ever make a film called Basketball, then that won't force the sport onto a dabed page. Primary topic disambiguation makes thing simpler for each case that uses it. Maybe more complicated in the sense that there are more systems, I accept, but simpler by the case. I still like it, and I still don't like the Disambiguated Primary Topic idea. Neonumbers 12:30, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm wondering if anyone has considered splitting Category:Disambiguation into a couple of subcategories based on template usage. I'm right now thinking in terms of the use of {{ TLAdisambig}} versus {{ disambig}}. Presently, the former template directs labeled articles to inclusion in Category:Disambiguation. Could we consider modification of this template to allow direction of labeled articles to a new sub-category, Category:TLA_Disambiguation? My thinking is that such a category would be an identifiable finite chunk of page organization. As I've not thought through the numerous pros and cons of this, it would be helpful for a pros/cons discussion to proceed from here on this page. Thanks. Courtland 02:23, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
I came to this page looking for simple instructions on how to create a piped link but had to look at "edit page" to see the example. I don't think this is clear since the Mercury example contains piped links but then does not even explain how they work. Would anybody be mad if I changed the text on this page as follows (this is a rough draft just to show you the idea):
Three different methods of disambiguating are discussed here: piped links, disambiguation links and disambiguation pages. In the first case, piped links are simply links which automatically redirect. In the second case, an article discussing one particular meaning of a term has a link at the top (or, rarely, at the bottom) pointing the user to another page with a similar title. Finally, a disambiguation page contains no article content, only links to other Wikipedia pages.
Then a brief description how to create a piped link, explainin where the pipe symbol is (over the slash usually?) and then walk people through how to do it using the Mercury example.
Please reply here or on my Talk page. Thanks!!! Laurap414 diligent semi-newbie Aug 12 1 pm CST (how do I insert the time?)
Three different methods of disambiguating are discussed here:
|
I just came across ABB, a disambiguation which was changed to its current style by User:Joshbaumgartner. I was just wondering what the general opinion of it was. Should we encourage that form or make sure nobody uses it? violet/riga (t) 10:07, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
For TLAs, at some length, I think topics would be helpful. Not sure if "ABB" is of sufficient lenght and the suggested style is the preferable. -- User:Docu
This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
A lot of the confusion in the topics above stems from the distinction between disambiguation pages (those with nothing but links) and article pages which contain disambiguation (such as {{
otheruses}}). The recently-developed
Manual of Style only applies to disambiguation pages, and the distinction needs to be clearer on this page. There's a third class of pages described here, in which a single page contains stub articles on several uses unrelated meanings of the same word, but current WP practice seems to have moved towards making those all separate stub articles; maybe it's time to reconsider that policy.
I'm planning to work on clarifying these distinctions (after the first-name-page uproar dies down), but now would welcome any thoughts on the subject.— Wahoofive ( talk) 16:27, 9 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm proposing to archive the section "Name disambiguation policy" since it's clear that this proposal isn't going to garner consensus. Please advise if you object to this archiving. This does not resolve the problem of how to handle these first-name pages, although I'm not certain this page is any longer the right venue to resolve that. For the moment I'll leave the section "FND: an alternative guideline". — Wahoofive ( talk) 01:56, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
The discussion on the templates (see top of the talk page) is extremely useful - so useful, I think it ought to be included into the article. Any objections? Josh Parris ✉ 02:13, 16 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I'm working on a draft for a major rewrite of this policy here. The intent of this rewrite is to make the text clearer, not to make any significant changes to the policy. Please comment on the article's talk page. (A side-by-side comparison can be seen here). This draft assumes that we'll come to some consensus eventually about the first-name-article issue; PLEASE don't rehash that issue there. Whatever conclusion we come to here will be reflected on that page. — Wahoofive ( talk) 17:06, 18 Jun 2005 (UTC)
Problem whether to use Tsushima, or Tsushima (disambiguation) for disambiguation in Talk:Tsushima Islands. Mr Tan 05:13, 20 Jun 2005 (UTC)
I've been fixing up a lot of dab and redirect pages lately. While I'm happy to chase down the "What links here" entries and fix them up, I often find links from talk pages, and I'm not quite sure what to do with them. On the one hand, fixing them to point to the right place seems to make sense, but I'm uneasy editing something written in the first person and signed. What's the right thing to do here? RoySmith 3 July 2005 17:51 (UTC)
Are there policies on the titles of disambiguation pages? I personally find it a little irritating when the regular article is a redirect to a disambiguation page (i.e. Yale). Shouldn't we just have the unambiguous page become the disambiguation page? -- DropDeadGorgias (talk) 19:11, July 11, 2005 (UTC)
I recently did a bit of shifting around of article contents that has ended up with the creation of A Place in the Sun (disambiguation). I've included in this page a reference to Place in the sun, as well as the titles of the 1951 film and the British TV program. What I'm wondering is whether there is an element of the guideline that addresses when and how to disambiguate articles that are distinguished by the use of articles such as "a" and "the", as is the case here. I've expressed my own opinion in the form of the page I refer to, but don't really want to fly in the face of a consensus solution if one has been identified. As a related note, I'm of the opinion that this is a class of articles that do not really need a guideline to cover, but that they can/should be handled on a one-off basis as they arise; therefore, I'll happily bound on my way if there isn't a guideline. Thanks. Courtland 18:27, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
Could you review First Love and let me know what Guidelines I've violated and need to fix (and please, don't say "all of them" :))? This is an unusual disambiguation page, which is explained in the talk-space for the page. Thanks. Courtland 20:54, July 24, 2005 (UTC)
In the case where certain places are named after other places, the unambiguated article should refer to the originator, right? I have a question because the article at Montserrat is about the carribean island, and by the article's admission, the island is named after the mountain in Spain, whose article is at Montserrat (mountain). I have started a discussion at Talk:Montserrat#Rename. Please let me know if there is clear precedent here. -- DropDeadGorgias (talk) 16:04, July 25, 2005 (UTC)
Please see Talk:Planet#Naming for a discussion on the use of disambiguation pages as primary for planets. -- DropDeadGorgias (talk) 21:57, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
I don't understand the 4th method of disambiguation (which I'm sure didn't exist a few months back). Is this meant to be a temporary measure until consensus on one, standing, clear primary topic is found? That's the impression I get. And, I always thought that the main page (e.g. "Mercury") was never meant to be a redirect to a disambiguation page. Can someone explain the purpose? Neonumbers 11:06, 11 Jun 2005 (UTC)
My very best (and somewhat confused) understanding of User:Jnc/Disambiguation is that its only purpose is to make maintaining the links to the page easier. There are two (former) types of dab: Equal and Primary Topic. If you have Primary Topic, then the links that go to that page may or may not be correctly addressed. To find out, you must go to the page itself, unless its title is really that self-explanatory. With equal, most pages will be incorrectly addressed. To find out, you probably have to visit the page in question and then decide whether or not to change it.
With this proposed, or rather, fourth method, the only difference is that you don't have to sift through the links manually. All it does is eliminates the correct links - a small matter for Equal disambiguation, in my opinion. For Primary Topic disambiguation, this will eliminate hassle only for those which you couldn't tell from the title - the proportion of which I don't know, having never worked in the area.
Dare I say that (imo) the cost caused by confusion and disuniformity (as a user) outweighs the benefits of lesser maintenance. Anyhow, as of yet, this is not a place to discuss the method's validity. It still wasn't discussed properly, and was a major change (not pointing at anyone, btw). I think a month is a short enough time to remove it until a discussion is held and concensus formed. Any chance of that?
And, more importantly, is my second attempt at understanding this right? Neonumbers 09:41, 14 Jun 2005 (UTC)
So does this method stay or go? Neonumbers 5 July 2005 10:50 (UTC)
I propose that all Primary Topic disambiguation be discouraged. If an article name is ambiguous, there should be no article there.
Instead of putting an article at an ambiguous topic name, a disambiguation page should be created. And at the same time, a Topic (disambiguation) page should be created, redirecting to the Topic page. No article should intentionally link to Topic; if anyone wants to link to the ambiguous concept of Topic they'll link to Topic (disambiguation), which will redirect to Topic. Any inbound links to Topic are ambiguous. Josh Parris ✉ 01:04, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
It comes down to "I'm a bear of little brain". I don't like trying to remember/figure out all over again if a link to the dab page is meant to be there or not. I just want it to go away. No imbound links, no work for me to do. Simple. Josh Parris ✉ 01:49, 26 July 2005 (UTC)
No, I think Primary Topic disambiguation's a very good method, especially when there's a Primary Topic. If there is dispute over which, then obviously that's not what you'll be using. But in many cases, there won't be dispute. I mean, if someone should ever make a film called Basketball, then that won't force the sport onto a dabed page. Primary topic disambiguation makes thing simpler for each case that uses it. Maybe more complicated in the sense that there are more systems, I accept, but simpler by the case. I still like it, and I still don't like the Disambiguated Primary Topic idea. Neonumbers 12:30, 29 July 2005 (UTC)
I'm wondering if anyone has considered splitting Category:Disambiguation into a couple of subcategories based on template usage. I'm right now thinking in terms of the use of {{ TLAdisambig}} versus {{ disambig}}. Presently, the former template directs labeled articles to inclusion in Category:Disambiguation. Could we consider modification of this template to allow direction of labeled articles to a new sub-category, Category:TLA_Disambiguation? My thinking is that such a category would be an identifiable finite chunk of page organization. As I've not thought through the numerous pros and cons of this, it would be helpful for a pros/cons discussion to proceed from here on this page. Thanks. Courtland 02:23, July 26, 2005 (UTC)
I came to this page looking for simple instructions on how to create a piped link but had to look at "edit page" to see the example. I don't think this is clear since the Mercury example contains piped links but then does not even explain how they work. Would anybody be mad if I changed the text on this page as follows (this is a rough draft just to show you the idea):
Three different methods of disambiguating are discussed here: piped links, disambiguation links and disambiguation pages. In the first case, piped links are simply links which automatically redirect. In the second case, an article discussing one particular meaning of a term has a link at the top (or, rarely, at the bottom) pointing the user to another page with a similar title. Finally, a disambiguation page contains no article content, only links to other Wikipedia pages.
Then a brief description how to create a piped link, explainin where the pipe symbol is (over the slash usually?) and then walk people through how to do it using the Mercury example.
Please reply here or on my Talk page. Thanks!!! Laurap414 diligent semi-newbie Aug 12 1 pm CST (how do I insert the time?)
Three different methods of disambiguating are discussed here:
|
I just came across ABB, a disambiguation which was changed to its current style by User:Joshbaumgartner. I was just wondering what the general opinion of it was. Should we encourage that form or make sure nobody uses it? violet/riga (t) 10:07, 19 August 2005 (UTC)
For TLAs, at some length, I think topics would be helpful. Not sure if "ABB" is of sufficient lenght and the suggested style is the preferable. -- User:Docu