![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
I read through the straw poll on relisting limits and it's pretty clear that admins wish to have the ability to relist an AFD as many times as necessary. The current process suggests that admins leave an explanation in an AFD when re-listing it for the 3rd or more time. This is a bit too late in my opinion.
The current process has admins placing a simple re-listing template, often scripted, which gives the AFD participants very little information. At that point, participants know only that the process has been extended and that an admin has judged that consensus has not been reached. This isn't very helpful and gives no idea of what to do next, especially for new editors who may already view the process as little more than a delay to an eventual deletion. I'd like to propose that the process be updated to suggest if not require that each time an AFD is re-listed, a comment be added by the admin with a brief description of why it was re-listed. The brief comment should make it clear why the admin did not see consensus in the discussion, what was missing from the discussion, and should have enough information that participants will know what to do next. If there are too few participants, say so. If arguments are not based around policy or guidelines, say so. If participants are turning the discussion into a case study of Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions, point it out. If topic is one that is difficult to find sources for and you'd like to allow more time for participants to help with that, say it. Relisting an AFD isn't magically going to produce an actionable discussion. Multiple re-listings can be disruptive as it places scarlet letter on the article, discouraging participation, especially for new editors who might say to themselves "whats the point, its just going to get deleted" before contributing to either the article or the AFD. AFDs I've participated in where admins have taken the few minutes to provide this kind of feedback when re-listing go much more smoothly and close faster with less controversial results.-- RadioFan ( talk) 11:48, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
{{
relist}}
template, and that would solve that part of the problem. Thus instead of putting in {{subst:relist}} to relist a discussion, one would put in {{subst:relist|blah blah blah}}. Then if no reason is put in, the default message should be large and in red (i.e. deliberately obnoxious) saying that a reason has not been given, and to please edit to add one (similar to when a {{
reflist}}
tag is forgotten).I found this page helpful. I am an author doing a proposal and needed to fill out the market comparison section for my agent. I did not realize there were two Elizabeth George authors. Being able to trace each through wikipedia was a benefit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.249.201.60 ( talk) 22:14, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Deletion discussions seems to have been made redundant by several templates (it appears to be more like a jump-off point than an actual essay, guideline, or policy). Whatever information it has fits here better, and the various references to Wikipedia:Deletion discussions in other articles are probably better pointing here anyways. It seems there is no point in that article as of now. -- Cerejota ( talk) 23:45, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
A520 | Talk me away!/ sign it! 18:06, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
There needs to be better checks and balances in the process of how articles are currently nominated for deletion, to prevent notable topics from being deleted without actual qualification per Wikipedia article deletion guidelines. This is a significant problem, because it is very likely that notable topics are being injustly deleted. It's easy to nominate an article for deletion and then type five or six words and wait to see if an article will be deleted, whereas it takes more time to refute nominations. Perhaps there should be more sophisticated criterion to nominate articles for deletion. As it is now, anyone can nominate any article without providing a just rationale for doing so, and can instead simply base the nomination upon basic, generic and inspecific statements such as "doesn't pass general notability guidelines", while not specifically stating which parts of the guidelines they are supposedly referring to. If nobody comes along to correct an injust or baseless nomination, the article is then deleted based upon unqualified, general statements that don't actually correspond with the required source searching per WP:BEFORE prior to nominating an article for deletion. This definitely makes it very easy for people to censor Wikipedia, for whatever subjective reasons. Here's how it's done: an article is nominated for deletion and an AfD entry is created, a generic rationale is provided to misqualify the deletion without actually checking for reliable sources to establish topic notability. Afterward, if nobody comes along to correct the faulty nomination, the article is deleted. It's also easy for people to message one-another to delete articles, often per an "as per nom" rationale, while disregarding the actual notability of topics. If nobody comes along and provides an objective analysis to refute the deletion of an article in which the topic is actually notable, nominated per generic statements and without the required source searching prior to nomination, then the article disappears. Hopefully Wikipedia can introduce better checks and balances to prevent this type of easily accomplished, simple censorship. One idea is to include a requirement prior to article nomination for deletion in which the nominator has to state, or check-box on a template, that they've performed the required minimum search in Google Books and in the Google News Archive required by WP:BEFORE, and in Google Scholar for academic subjects, as suggested in WP:BEFORE. This would be a simple addition to the AfD nomination process that would add significant integrity to the process, and would also encourage users to follow the proper procedures.
Please place responses regarding this matter here on this Deletion process Discussion page below, rather than on my personal talk page. In this manner, other users can view and respond to responses. Thank you.
Northamerica1000 (
talk)
07:55, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
To cut down on the chain relisting of articles with no discussion at all occurring between relists at
WP:AfD, we should add a requirement to the process of relisting a discussion: the previously uninvolved closer who relists the discussion should be requiredstrongly encouraged to contribute a substantive argument to the deletion discussion they have relisted. At the very least, this would generate one discussion opinion per relist. Hopefully the opinions of the relisters would help establish a consensus one way or another. There are enough Admins and Editors making relists that loosing closers to involvement after their relists will not cause a shortage of uninvolved closers for subsequent relists.
Monty
845
05:14, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- closing as "no consensus" with no prejudice against speedy renomination (NPASR); and
- closing in favour of the nominator's stated proposal. Soft deletion is the closing of an AfD with minimal participation as "delete" with the understanding that anyone who wishes to contest the deletion at a later date may request restoration for any reason at WP:REFUND. This achieves an effect similar to WP:PROD.
I have started an RFC on the standard of review for non admin closes. It is located at Village Pump (policy) and may be of interest to readers of this page. Monty 845 02:58, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Would someone please fix the problem with the instructions at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Administrator instructions concerning date format of the {{tl:tfdend}} template. The instructions don't work if a leading zero is in the day field, even though the instructions call for dd format. I have twice tried to fix this by specifying a different format that does always work but keep getting reverted. Discussion with reverter here. Spinning Spark 16:28, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
This part of the policy states currently that the nominator can withdraw his nomination at any time. To me, if a weight of delete votes have been passed prior to the nominators desire to withdraw those votes have a weight of their own and the nominator should not be able to overrule or ignore them. I would like to add some kind of comment to the section to assert this. Thoughts? Youreallycan ( talk) 13:14, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to see the following text, or something akin to it, be added to the non-admin closure section:
If a page is speedy deleted, but the deleting administrator does not close the discussion, anyone may close the discussion.
In such a case, the close is simply a housekeeping matter, since the decision has already been made by someone else. It's simple enough that this exact thing is done by bots in some situations — as you can see in the Maryland seal image at Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2012 January 6, AnomieBOT works at FFD to close discussions for images that have been deleted under F8. I'm proposing this because it's at variance with the current wording: I see nothing wrong with the nominator closing a discussion in this situation, since the nominator isn't exercising any judgement in the matter. As well, Wikipedia:Non-admin closure, which is based on this page, says "Non-admins may not use a 'speedy delete' close"; I'd like it to be obvious that "speedy delete" closures in this specific type of situation are permitted. Nyttend ( talk) 19:34, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
All information from the Wikipedia:Deletion discussions article has been merged to this article ( Wikipedia:Deletion process), per consensus at the Merge discussion. Northamerica1000 (talk) 00:30, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
I wish to garner consensus around modifying a point in the section on Non-administrators closing discussions to reflect the fact that administration is a technical but not a process privilege.
* Close calls and controversial decisions are better left to an administrator.
would be modified to read
* Close calls and controversial decisions are better left to a highly experienced and uninvolved editor.
as in this diff. The rationale for doing so is quite simple: the basis for differentiating administrators from non-administrators can be justified on technical grounds or work-flow bases, such as "Non-administrators should not close discussions in which they lack the technical ability to act upon the outcome." However, differentiating administrators from non-administrative editors on a fallacious ground that administrators have any different capacity to read consensus turns a technical privilege into a social privilege. Changing the wording to reflect the underlying desire of this section, to ensure that controversial closes are closed only by editors with considerable experience at reading consensus reflects the actual purpose of this section. I would be very happy to come to any consensus wording that matches the rationale, as I am not attached to the particular form of expression. Thanks, Fifelfoo ( talk) 03:50, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battery Energy Drink. I mean, what's the point? __ meco ( talk) 09:45, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
What does XfD mean? Hyacinth ( talk) 03:57, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
For as long as I can remember, I have always wondered why discussions at WP:FFD and WP:PUF aren't treated the same as discussions at WP:CFD. Under WP:RELIST, it suggests that "When relisting a discussion, it should be removed from the log for its original date (this does not apply at Categories for discussion)...", and I have always wondered, why are FFD and PUF not exemptions? The discussions at these venues are grouped by date just like CFD is, and it would only seem logical that they follow the same relisting procedure, but they doesn't. This probably applies to WP:TFD as well. I'm curious as to why this inconsistency exists. — ξ xplicit 00:58, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I've seen a number of issues raised on WP:AN recently that call into question the current vague wording of WP:NACD. I have also personally run into a number of NACs that I felt were questionable, but where the person making the close relied upon the "Close calls and controversial decisions are better left to an administrator" part—that is, accepting to some degree that the decision is borderline, but arguing that the "are better" specifically does not prohibit close calls. In my opinion, one of the two major sticking points of many RFA's revolves around whether the person can be trusted to make decisions on AfDs, especially close calls. And yet, NACD seems to allow anyone to make those close calls, so long as the close is either relist or keep. This seems inconsistent to me. I think the line should be changed to "Close calls and controversial decisions must be left to an administrator."
Furthermore, the line, "Closing discussions in which you have offered an opinion or for a page in which you have a vested interest (i.e. a page that you have edited heavily) should be avoided" is actually wrong. If an admin were to close a page after voting or having an interest in the page, he or she would have violated WP:INVOLVED, which can be grounds for de-sysopping. That is, by saying "should be avoided" rather than "is prohibited", this actually gives more leeway to NAC closers than to admins; plus, of course, it's leeway they shouldn't have, since no one should make a final decision on an AfD that they have an interest in. Thus, I propose that we change those words to "is prohibited".
Of the two changes, I think the second one is necessary (we can't allow NACs to do something that admin are expressly forbidden from doing), and the first is desirable. I'm not sure if we should just be content to have a consensus here, or if it would be important to get wider input via an RfC or notification at the Village Pump. Qwyrxian ( talk) 05:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
On AfDs where the consensus is mixed (meaning that there's a significant discussion up to that point) and the AfD gets relisted for a broader consensus, I'd like to suggest that a 4th level heading titled "Relist break" be included so that the discussion can be broken up into reasonable edit portions. Thoughts? Hasteur ( talk) 16:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
I see this happening more and more. Non-admins are simply reverting closed discussions without review. This is technically against policy. I get this occasionally from non-admins who have issues with me from other parts of Wikipedia, but I see it happening to others as well. The rule is pretty clear that only admins should be able to simply revert a closed discussion, but perhaps it is not quite clear enough.
I have been bold and underlined the word "Administrator" in the hopes of making the rule more clear. If anyone has any concern, please feel free to revert it, and we can begin a discussion. -- Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 04:52, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Should the word "administrator" be underlined? -- Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 05:37, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
I see this happening more and more. Non-admins are simply reverting closed discussions without review. This is against policy. I get this occasionally from non-admins who have issues with me from other parts of Wikipedia, but I see it happening to others as well. The rule is pretty clear that only admins should be able to simply revert a closed discussion, but perhaps it is not quite clear enough.
I have been bold and underlined the word "Administrator" in the hopes of making the rule more clear. If anyone has any concern, please feel free to revert it, and we can begin a discussion. -- Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 04:52, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Suggested rewording for the section Non-administrators closing discussions.
I am in favor of all three of these things of course. Dream Focus 15:28, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Amend the non-admin close instructions as follows
Admins should have as little special authority when it comes to closes as practical without bogging down the system or creating needless repetition of work. Monty 845 15:55, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
I have removed the List of deletion-related pages section as redundant. Every link except one, Wikipedia:Copyright problems, appears 2–5 other times: in {{ Deletion debates}} near the top, in the text itself, and/or in the See also section. -- Black Falcon ( talk) 19:56, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
I would like to propose deprecating the acronym NPASR (no prejudice against speedy renomination) in favor of something else, such as NPAIR (no prejudice against immediate renomination) or WPAIR (without prejudice against immediate renomination).
On a page that discusses various "speedy" processes, including speedy deletion and speedy renaming (of categories), the phrase "speedy renomination" can be confusing. It implies that there is a speedy renomination process, which of course there isn't.
In addition, there is nothing inherently "speedy" about the renomination process. The intent of the phrase is that editors are free to renominate a page without waiting for a certain period of time to pass, and that even an immediate renomination will not be considered disruptive. -- Black Falcon ( talk) 20:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
This page has seen two versions of the conditions for "no quorum" in the last year, with each editor accusing the other of changing it without discussion. They are right that there has been no discussion - I can find nothing significant in the archives - so maybe it's time we had one. Should the condition for no quorum be:
I've participated at both AfD and CfD and I've found that the process of notification of proposed deletion varies widely between areas and between individuals. When I made my first proposed AfD, I was quickly informed by more experienced Editors that I had not left notices on the Talk Pages of the article creator and main contributors and this needed to be done ASAP. So, I thought this step was mandatory.
But I've since found out that this notification is only encouraged. The result, I believe, is that there is a small group of regular Editors who weigh in on these deletion discussions and Editors working in related WikiProjects or on similar articles can be stunned to find an article or category has been deleted.
I'd like these kind of notifications should be mandatory or, if not required, then be listed in the deletion instructions as another step the Editor is expected to take. I realize that this would not be necessary for CSD, PRODs or cases where the article or category creator is no longer active on Wikipedia.
I think there would be a lot less divisiveness about Deletion Review if there was more of an effort to incorporate people's opinions before consensus was determined. AfD already has a system for alerting WikiProjects of relevant cases and I hope CfD could have something similar.
But I wanted first to post here to see what kind of support there is for more thorough notifications being issued when files, articles or categories are up for deletion. I think there is a perception that there is a small group of people who make decisions at AfD, CfD and, I assume, MfD and I think being more transparent would establish more goodwill between Editors, Article Creators and WikiProjects and those involved with the deletion process. Liz Read! Talk! 20:27, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
I don't know about anyone else, but I find these confusing. They look simple, but there's so much coded stuff at the top of the RfD edit page that I'm still not sure what goes where. (OK, I close more AfDs - mainly because I deleted the subject and like to tidy up). Peridon ( talk) 14:42, 14 October 2013 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 1 | ← | Archive 5 | Archive 6 | Archive 7 | Archive 8 | Archive 9 | Archive 10 |
I read through the straw poll on relisting limits and it's pretty clear that admins wish to have the ability to relist an AFD as many times as necessary. The current process suggests that admins leave an explanation in an AFD when re-listing it for the 3rd or more time. This is a bit too late in my opinion.
The current process has admins placing a simple re-listing template, often scripted, which gives the AFD participants very little information. At that point, participants know only that the process has been extended and that an admin has judged that consensus has not been reached. This isn't very helpful and gives no idea of what to do next, especially for new editors who may already view the process as little more than a delay to an eventual deletion. I'd like to propose that the process be updated to suggest if not require that each time an AFD is re-listed, a comment be added by the admin with a brief description of why it was re-listed. The brief comment should make it clear why the admin did not see consensus in the discussion, what was missing from the discussion, and should have enough information that participants will know what to do next. If there are too few participants, say so. If arguments are not based around policy or guidelines, say so. If participants are turning the discussion into a case study of Wikipedia:Arguments to avoid in deletion discussions, point it out. If topic is one that is difficult to find sources for and you'd like to allow more time for participants to help with that, say it. Relisting an AFD isn't magically going to produce an actionable discussion. Multiple re-listings can be disruptive as it places scarlet letter on the article, discouraging participation, especially for new editors who might say to themselves "whats the point, its just going to get deleted" before contributing to either the article or the AFD. AFDs I've participated in where admins have taken the few minutes to provide this kind of feedback when re-listing go much more smoothly and close faster with less controversial results.-- RadioFan ( talk) 11:48, 25 May 2011 (UTC)
{{
relist}}
template, and that would solve that part of the problem. Thus instead of putting in {{subst:relist}} to relist a discussion, one would put in {{subst:relist|blah blah blah}}. Then if no reason is put in, the default message should be large and in red (i.e. deliberately obnoxious) saying that a reason has not been given, and to please edit to add one (similar to when a {{
reflist}}
tag is forgotten).I found this page helpful. I am an author doing a proposal and needed to fill out the market comparison section for my agent. I did not realize there were two Elizabeth George authors. Being able to trace each through wikipedia was a benefit. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 166.249.201.60 ( talk) 22:14, 20 July 2011 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Deletion discussions seems to have been made redundant by several templates (it appears to be more like a jump-off point than an actual essay, guideline, or policy). Whatever information it has fits here better, and the various references to Wikipedia:Deletion discussions in other articles are probably better pointing here anyways. It seems there is no point in that article as of now. -- Cerejota ( talk) 23:45, 5 September 2011 (UTC)
A520 | Talk me away!/ sign it! 18:06, 23 December 2011 (UTC)
There needs to be better checks and balances in the process of how articles are currently nominated for deletion, to prevent notable topics from being deleted without actual qualification per Wikipedia article deletion guidelines. This is a significant problem, because it is very likely that notable topics are being injustly deleted. It's easy to nominate an article for deletion and then type five or six words and wait to see if an article will be deleted, whereas it takes more time to refute nominations. Perhaps there should be more sophisticated criterion to nominate articles for deletion. As it is now, anyone can nominate any article without providing a just rationale for doing so, and can instead simply base the nomination upon basic, generic and inspecific statements such as "doesn't pass general notability guidelines", while not specifically stating which parts of the guidelines they are supposedly referring to. If nobody comes along to correct an injust or baseless nomination, the article is then deleted based upon unqualified, general statements that don't actually correspond with the required source searching per WP:BEFORE prior to nominating an article for deletion. This definitely makes it very easy for people to censor Wikipedia, for whatever subjective reasons. Here's how it's done: an article is nominated for deletion and an AfD entry is created, a generic rationale is provided to misqualify the deletion without actually checking for reliable sources to establish topic notability. Afterward, if nobody comes along to correct the faulty nomination, the article is deleted. It's also easy for people to message one-another to delete articles, often per an "as per nom" rationale, while disregarding the actual notability of topics. If nobody comes along and provides an objective analysis to refute the deletion of an article in which the topic is actually notable, nominated per generic statements and without the required source searching prior to nomination, then the article disappears. Hopefully Wikipedia can introduce better checks and balances to prevent this type of easily accomplished, simple censorship. One idea is to include a requirement prior to article nomination for deletion in which the nominator has to state, or check-box on a template, that they've performed the required minimum search in Google Books and in the Google News Archive required by WP:BEFORE, and in Google Scholar for academic subjects, as suggested in WP:BEFORE. This would be a simple addition to the AfD nomination process that would add significant integrity to the process, and would also encourage users to follow the proper procedures.
Please place responses regarding this matter here on this Deletion process Discussion page below, rather than on my personal talk page. In this manner, other users can view and respond to responses. Thank you.
Northamerica1000 (
talk)
07:55, 22 September 2011 (UTC)
To cut down on the chain relisting of articles with no discussion at all occurring between relists at
WP:AfD, we should add a requirement to the process of relisting a discussion: the previously uninvolved closer who relists the discussion should be requiredstrongly encouraged to contribute a substantive argument to the deletion discussion they have relisted. At the very least, this would generate one discussion opinion per relist. Hopefully the opinions of the relisters would help establish a consensus one way or another. There are enough Admins and Editors making relists that loosing closers to involvement after their relists will not cause a shortage of uninvolved closers for subsequent relists.
Monty
845
05:14, 13 October 2011 (UTC)
- closing as "no consensus" with no prejudice against speedy renomination (NPASR); and
- closing in favour of the nominator's stated proposal. Soft deletion is the closing of an AfD with minimal participation as "delete" with the understanding that anyone who wishes to contest the deletion at a later date may request restoration for any reason at WP:REFUND. This achieves an effect similar to WP:PROD.
I have started an RFC on the standard of review for non admin closes. It is located at Village Pump (policy) and may be of interest to readers of this page. Monty 845 02:58, 24 October 2011 (UTC)
Would someone please fix the problem with the instructions at Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Administrator instructions concerning date format of the {{tl:tfdend}} template. The instructions don't work if a leading zero is in the day field, even though the instructions call for dd format. I have twice tried to fix this by specifying a different format that does always work but keep getting reverted. Discussion with reverter here. Spinning Spark 16:28, 18 November 2011 (UTC)
This part of the policy states currently that the nominator can withdraw his nomination at any time. To me, if a weight of delete votes have been passed prior to the nominators desire to withdraw those votes have a weight of their own and the nominator should not be able to overrule or ignore them. I would like to add some kind of comment to the section to assert this. Thoughts? Youreallycan ( talk) 13:14, 20 December 2011 (UTC)
I'd like to see the following text, or something akin to it, be added to the non-admin closure section:
If a page is speedy deleted, but the deleting administrator does not close the discussion, anyone may close the discussion.
In such a case, the close is simply a housekeeping matter, since the decision has already been made by someone else. It's simple enough that this exact thing is done by bots in some situations — as you can see in the Maryland seal image at Wikipedia:Files for deletion/2012 January 6, AnomieBOT works at FFD to close discussions for images that have been deleted under F8. I'm proposing this because it's at variance with the current wording: I see nothing wrong with the nominator closing a discussion in this situation, since the nominator isn't exercising any judgement in the matter. As well, Wikipedia:Non-admin closure, which is based on this page, says "Non-admins may not use a 'speedy delete' close"; I'd like it to be obvious that "speedy delete" closures in this specific type of situation are permitted. Nyttend ( talk) 19:34, 12 January 2012 (UTC)
All information from the Wikipedia:Deletion discussions article has been merged to this article ( Wikipedia:Deletion process), per consensus at the Merge discussion. Northamerica1000 (talk) 00:30, 26 January 2012 (UTC)
I wish to garner consensus around modifying a point in the section on Non-administrators closing discussions to reflect the fact that administration is a technical but not a process privilege.
* Close calls and controversial decisions are better left to an administrator.
would be modified to read
* Close calls and controversial decisions are better left to a highly experienced and uninvolved editor.
as in this diff. The rationale for doing so is quite simple: the basis for differentiating administrators from non-administrators can be justified on technical grounds or work-flow bases, such as "Non-administrators should not close discussions in which they lack the technical ability to act upon the outcome." However, differentiating administrators from non-administrative editors on a fallacious ground that administrators have any different capacity to read consensus turns a technical privilege into a social privilege. Changing the wording to reflect the underlying desire of this section, to ensure that controversial closes are closed only by editors with considerable experience at reading consensus reflects the actual purpose of this section. I would be very happy to come to any consensus wording that matches the rationale, as I am not attached to the particular form of expression. Thanks, Fifelfoo ( talk) 03:50, 20 June 2012 (UTC)
Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/Battery Energy Drink. I mean, what's the point? __ meco ( talk) 09:45, 19 July 2012 (UTC)
What does XfD mean? Hyacinth ( talk) 03:57, 14 October 2012 (UTC)
For as long as I can remember, I have always wondered why discussions at WP:FFD and WP:PUF aren't treated the same as discussions at WP:CFD. Under WP:RELIST, it suggests that "When relisting a discussion, it should be removed from the log for its original date (this does not apply at Categories for discussion)...", and I have always wondered, why are FFD and PUF not exemptions? The discussions at these venues are grouped by date just like CFD is, and it would only seem logical that they follow the same relisting procedure, but they doesn't. This probably applies to WP:TFD as well. I'm curious as to why this inconsistency exists. — ξ xplicit 00:58, 4 November 2012 (UTC)
I've seen a number of issues raised on WP:AN recently that call into question the current vague wording of WP:NACD. I have also personally run into a number of NACs that I felt were questionable, but where the person making the close relied upon the "Close calls and controversial decisions are better left to an administrator" part—that is, accepting to some degree that the decision is borderline, but arguing that the "are better" specifically does not prohibit close calls. In my opinion, one of the two major sticking points of many RFA's revolves around whether the person can be trusted to make decisions on AfDs, especially close calls. And yet, NACD seems to allow anyone to make those close calls, so long as the close is either relist or keep. This seems inconsistent to me. I think the line should be changed to "Close calls and controversial decisions must be left to an administrator."
Furthermore, the line, "Closing discussions in which you have offered an opinion or for a page in which you have a vested interest (i.e. a page that you have edited heavily) should be avoided" is actually wrong. If an admin were to close a page after voting or having an interest in the page, he or she would have violated WP:INVOLVED, which can be grounds for de-sysopping. That is, by saying "should be avoided" rather than "is prohibited", this actually gives more leeway to NAC closers than to admins; plus, of course, it's leeway they shouldn't have, since no one should make a final decision on an AfD that they have an interest in. Thus, I propose that we change those words to "is prohibited".
Of the two changes, I think the second one is necessary (we can't allow NACs to do something that admin are expressly forbidden from doing), and the first is desirable. I'm not sure if we should just be content to have a consensus here, or if it would be important to get wider input via an RfC or notification at the Village Pump. Qwyrxian ( talk) 05:51, 9 December 2012 (UTC)
On AfDs where the consensus is mixed (meaning that there's a significant discussion up to that point) and the AfD gets relisted for a broader consensus, I'd like to suggest that a 4th level heading titled "Relist break" be included so that the discussion can be broken up into reasonable edit portions. Thoughts? Hasteur ( talk) 16:27, 18 December 2012 (UTC)
I see this happening more and more. Non-admins are simply reverting closed discussions without review. This is technically against policy. I get this occasionally from non-admins who have issues with me from other parts of Wikipedia, but I see it happening to others as well. The rule is pretty clear that only admins should be able to simply revert a closed discussion, but perhaps it is not quite clear enough.
I have been bold and underlined the word "Administrator" in the hopes of making the rule more clear. If anyone has any concern, please feel free to revert it, and we can begin a discussion. -- Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 04:52, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Should the word "administrator" be underlined? -- Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 05:37, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
I see this happening more and more. Non-admins are simply reverting closed discussions without review. This is against policy. I get this occasionally from non-admins who have issues with me from other parts of Wikipedia, but I see it happening to others as well. The rule is pretty clear that only admins should be able to simply revert a closed discussion, but perhaps it is not quite clear enough.
I have been bold and underlined the word "Administrator" in the hopes of making the rule more clear. If anyone has any concern, please feel free to revert it, and we can begin a discussion. -- Sue Rangell ✍ ✉ 04:52, 7 January 2013 (UTC)
Suggested rewording for the section Non-administrators closing discussions.
I am in favor of all three of these things of course. Dream Focus 15:28, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
Amend the non-admin close instructions as follows
Admins should have as little special authority when it comes to closes as practical without bogging down the system or creating needless repetition of work. Monty 845 15:55, 11 January 2013 (UTC)
I have removed the List of deletion-related pages section as redundant. Every link except one, Wikipedia:Copyright problems, appears 2–5 other times: in {{ Deletion debates}} near the top, in the text itself, and/or in the See also section. -- Black Falcon ( talk) 19:56, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
I would like to propose deprecating the acronym NPASR (no prejudice against speedy renomination) in favor of something else, such as NPAIR (no prejudice against immediate renomination) or WPAIR (without prejudice against immediate renomination).
On a page that discusses various "speedy" processes, including speedy deletion and speedy renaming (of categories), the phrase "speedy renomination" can be confusing. It implies that there is a speedy renomination process, which of course there isn't.
In addition, there is nothing inherently "speedy" about the renomination process. The intent of the phrase is that editors are free to renominate a page without waiting for a certain period of time to pass, and that even an immediate renomination will not be considered disruptive. -- Black Falcon ( talk) 20:22, 24 February 2013 (UTC)
This page has seen two versions of the conditions for "no quorum" in the last year, with each editor accusing the other of changing it without discussion. They are right that there has been no discussion - I can find nothing significant in the archives - so maybe it's time we had one. Should the condition for no quorum be:
I've participated at both AfD and CfD and I've found that the process of notification of proposed deletion varies widely between areas and between individuals. When I made my first proposed AfD, I was quickly informed by more experienced Editors that I had not left notices on the Talk Pages of the article creator and main contributors and this needed to be done ASAP. So, I thought this step was mandatory.
But I've since found out that this notification is only encouraged. The result, I believe, is that there is a small group of regular Editors who weigh in on these deletion discussions and Editors working in related WikiProjects or on similar articles can be stunned to find an article or category has been deleted.
I'd like these kind of notifications should be mandatory or, if not required, then be listed in the deletion instructions as another step the Editor is expected to take. I realize that this would not be necessary for CSD, PRODs or cases where the article or category creator is no longer active on Wikipedia.
I think there would be a lot less divisiveness about Deletion Review if there was more of an effort to incorporate people's opinions before consensus was determined. AfD already has a system for alerting WikiProjects of relevant cases and I hope CfD could have something similar.
But I wanted first to post here to see what kind of support there is for more thorough notifications being issued when files, articles or categories are up for deletion. I think there is a perception that there is a small group of people who make decisions at AfD, CfD and, I assume, MfD and I think being more transparent would establish more goodwill between Editors, Article Creators and WikiProjects and those involved with the deletion process. Liz Read! Talk! 20:27, 27 September 2013 (UTC)
I don't know about anyone else, but I find these confusing. They look simple, but there's so much coded stuff at the top of the RfD edit page that I'm still not sure what goes where. (OK, I close more AfDs - mainly because I deleted the subject and like to tidy up). Peridon ( talk) 14:42, 14 October 2013 (UTC)