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I'm slightly confused by this. Technically, this can be circumvented by someone having a list of images that they want to view as a gallery (even maintaining it off-wiki), and then, when they want to view the gallery (usually for maintenance purposes, eg. how good is the coverage in this particular area, can we use these images in a better way, etc), the user can temporarily stick the list up in the correct format, with the gallery tags around them. And then remove it again after a few hours, when the work is completed. Is this acceptable? I assume that U3 is aimed at permanent galleries, but even in the case where gallerisation is undone, the gallery version will still be available in the page history, so a user could save a page with a link to that version, and they could then look at the gallery whenever they wanted. An example of this, not in userspace, but in a WikiProject, is at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Middle-earth/Images. I would guess other WikiProjects have similar pages. The one that usually springs to mind is Wikipedia:WikiProject_Harry_Potter/Images. Carcharoth 22:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Why is there a template by that name in Category:Speedy deletion templates ? -- ArmadilloFromHell 06:32, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
This edit "simplified" blogs, podcasts, webcomic, etc. to "website", which could be seen as more restrictive (I'm thinking of, for example, non-notable videos that exist on sites like YouTube and that occasionally are promoted improperly here). A quick glance of this page and recent archives doesn't turn up discussion of this change, and {{ db-web}} still reflects the more expansive version. So I'm guessing that the restriction from "web content" to "website" wasn't fully intended. Am I missing something? — TKD:: Talk 06:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
From Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons: Remove unsourced or poorly sourced controversial material
"Administrators encountering biographies that are unsourced and controversial in tone, where there is no NPOV version to revert to, should delete the article without discussion (see WP:CSD criterion A6)."
A small fix seems to be in order. Brimba 18:28, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Please excuse me for a moment while I engage in utterly useless pedantry, to no real purpose other than my own self-amusement.
The word "wherefore" actually means "why", not "where". "Wherefore art thou Romeo?" is actually asking "Why are you a Montague, and not some schmoe my family isn't feuding with?" Wiktionary tells the tale.
Having said that, I use the word "wherefore" as a synonym for "where" with alarming frequency myself.
Anyhow, now you know. And knowing is some fraction of the battle. Go Joe.
We return you now to your regularly scheduled policy talk page.
All the best,
Ξxtreme Unction
22:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
P.S. It is gratifying to see that I am not the only pedantic dork editing this subsection. ;-)
I see that even when you leave the Barrens, you never REALLY leave the Barrens. Kind of a touch the devil type of thing.
Brimba
22:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Oops. I stand corrected. Must resist the pedantry... Carcharoth 23:29, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
User talk pages aren't speediable per CSD U1, right? I'm seeing this a lot lately (and I always decline the deletion), but maybe I'm wrong? Perhaps the language needs to be clarified. -- Merope 13:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello. A quick question. Kent class cruiser/Temp has already been suggested for speedy deletion, but was changed to a merge and later a redirect. However, I really doubt anyone would ever type that in a search box, and the history content is made of mostly clean up stuff. Could the article be deleted under G6? I kind of don't like having that article in my watchlist, appearing from time to time. Thanks. -- ReyBrujo 00:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
The quick reference at CAT:CSD lists "I8: Attack Images" and "I9: Identical on Commons" while there is no longer an I9 at here. We should probably change one or the other so they coincide. Why didn't we leave I8 as (This criterion has been superseded by G10 and is kept for historical reasons.) and keep I9 at I9, as we did with A6? Hope this makes sense, DVD+ R/W 00:48, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
WP:NDT says, "When spotted, such templates tend to be speedily deleted because they're similar to templates we've debated and deleted in the past." However, the only thing CSD says about templates is, "divisive and inflammatory". Are disclaimer templates considered divisive and inflammatory? If so, perhaps that could be clarified. Otherwise, maybe "disclaimer template" should be added to CSD. I realize that NDT is merely a guideline, but it seems silly to go through a prod or TfD discussion when the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Nevertheless, I don't feel comfortable adding db to Template:Warning Upsetting without a clear CSD. Am I being overly cautious? The only argument I can think of against adding "disclaimer template" as a CSD is that it may not be obvious whether a given template is a disclaimer template, and that strikes me as unlikely. Xtifr tälk 04:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Can a better example be provided for I7 please? It's not clear enough to me what is covered by it. Thanks. jd || talk || 21:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Confirm this for me, folks. Has it been eliminated? - CrazyRussian talk/ email 23:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I actually did ask Jimbo about the 48-hour issue; my understanding was that the 48-hour part of the rule was to prevent mirrors from being mistaken for a copyvio source. His response was interesting: basically, that we should stop worrying so much about deleting stuff that could remain, because it should be no big deal. Better to err on the side of deletion when dealing with copyvios; mistakes can always be undone. Here's the diff: [1]. Mango juice talk 04:56, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be transcluded onto the page so that users and admins can easily place it on their user pages for quick reference? Like, Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion/Templates or Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion/Deletion templates? Cbrown1023 20:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I just changed:
to
The earlier verstion seemed a bit vague, and could be taken to mean that if a copyvio has been rewritten a bit, maybe moved around, wikified, a typo fixed, that it's not a copyvio anymore. Copyvio content should be purged from the page history if possible. However, with pre-existing or older articles, usually what was copy and pasted has had new introductions added, and otherwise substantial new content written around it. So rather than delete the whole thing, I think we need to clarify that practice is to delete the copyvio but leave the rest, if it can stand on its own as an article (even if it's just a short stub).
If nothing else, I think the new wording is more clear but still has the same meaning. -- W.marsh 22:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
The purpose of it was to prevent the deletion of articles that were created organically on the wiki. Also, substantial is too vague a word in relation to "content" and many articles are going to get deleted when a revert would be more appropriate. — Centrx→ talk • 17:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
{{ db-attack}} automatically places pages into Category:Attack pages for speedy deletion. Since copyright violations are just as big a concern, would it be a good idea to do the same kind of thing with {{ db-copyvio}}? I suspect this could be useful in a few different ways, assuming Category:Attack pages for speedy deletion is itself useful. -- Omicronpersei8 ( talk) 04:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and give this category a test run. I also notice the controversial G11 has spawned its own subcategory, and there's one for userboxes I hadn't noticed before, so this seems like a pretty logical addition and an uncontroversial one as long as it doesn't spur the assembly of a group of Internet lawyers who sit on the category page clicking refresh all day. Or... something. -- Omicronpersei8 ( talk) 16:53, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
This may be a good idea not because they be urgent, but because they require a different sort of examination than the others and would be helpful to analyze what pages are being tagged. — Centrx→ talk • 17:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I do not care if subcategories are created, so long as the articles all still appear in the main category. When you create subcategories, it is much easier for stuff to be overlooked. Something to let us know when an article has been in tagged for a long time might also be good, but it would be nice to do it without having to split the articles up by the day they were tagged, though. -- Kjkolb 08:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
There are a bunch of images tagged for speedy deletion because they use an "educational and non-commercial only" license. The strange thing is that these images were recently uploaded and they have no other edits to them besides the upload. I went to the upload page and, incredibly, there is an option for educational and non-commercial only, although is under the invalid heading. I'm guessing that choosing that option and then uploading the image automatically puts the picture in the speedy deletion category. This is bizarre, to me. Why do we let people upload pictures under that license? The only thing that I can guess is that it is so they do not choose a different license, and this way allows the images to be automatically tagged for deletion (putting the license under the invalid heading interferes with this plan, though, since people may chose a different one because of it). However, it gives people the impression license is okay, if they do not notice or do not understand the "invalid" in the menu and do not scroll down on the image page to see the speedy deletion notice (even if they do scroll down, there is a good chance it will confuse the hell out of them since the license is a choice on the upload page). Also, even if they do notice and understand the "invalid", they might think that it is a mistake since the upload still works.
Another crazy thing is the extra work that is created for admins who do speedy deletions. Even if you want to use this confusing system, you could just have the images deleted automatically by a bot, with or without a delay. The images should be in a separate category, too, so they do not clog up the main one.
There is also a much simpler system. You could have the license still be an option, but when the person tries to upload the image, it does not work and an error message explains that such images are not allowed and has a link for more information. The error message could show up on the upload page or the browser could be redirected to an error page. Finally, you could put an explicit notice on the upload page about not being able to use images with that license with a link for more information. -- Kjkolb 09:00, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I'm want to put {{db-copyvio}} to this page: Source four, because the subject is copyrighted product name and all of its sources are taken from here: [2]. Is this a blatant copyvio? I want to ask first, because this is my first time to put an article into speedy deletion and usually I'm not a deletionist. Thanks in advance. — Indon ( reply) — 15:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
One of the key parts of a copyvio is that the text is copied. — Centrx→ talk • 19:14, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Hey, would it be a good idea to add to the bottom of the {{ db-attack}} template, "Please consider adding {{ subst:attack-warn}}? This would go on the user talk page and would be a strong deterrent to these attack pages. Take a look at the template. Diez2 15:00, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed that while the criteria in CSD:G12 require only
Blatant copyright infringement which meets these parameters:
- Material was copied from another website which does not have a license compatible with Wikipedia;
- There is no non-infringing content in the page history worth saving.
- The infringement was introduced at once by a single person rather than created organically on wiki and then copied by another website such as one of the many Wikipedia mirrors.
- Uploader does not assert permission (for images: no assertion aside from tags) or fair use, or the assertion is questionable;
the corresponding section in
Wikipedia:Copyright problems says:
Clearly these are out of sync, in that the WP:CP version requires also the the material be "copied from the website of a commercial content provider (directly engaged in making money from the content)", but that is not in G12. My memory of how copyvio-speedys evolved is hazy, and I can't seem to find the right diffs, but wasn't it the case that the commercial content provider was originally part of G12, and then dropped? If so, the language over at WP:CP should probably be updated. Or do I have this wrong? -- MCB 05:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm just wondering if some user posts his resume a) as a main space article or b) as his userpage would it be speedily deletable under CSD G11? MER-C 07:52, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Any objections to adding an optional XFD discussion link parameter to {{ db-repost}} (an example is here)? Apologies if this has been discussed before – I didn't find such a conversation in a quick search. -- Omicronpersei8 ( talk) 03:28, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
The policy on recreation of deleted material currently reads as follows (emphasis mine):
What is the rationale for allowing users to keep copies of deleted articles in userspace? I can see a few possibilities for abuse here. For example, say someone creates a vanity article for a company with the hope of promoting it on their website ("Look how famous I am! I'm on Wikipedia!") or using it to boost their search engine ranking for a particular search term. (As we know, Google tends to rank Wikipedia articles quite highly, and Wikipedia is mirrored extensively, increasing the chances that the vanity article will come up in a web search.) The article gets deleted, but a Wikipedia user (possibly with an interest in the company) makes an identical copy as a user subpage. Therefore the page will continue to fulfulling its original vanity purpose: it will continue to be mirrored and indexed by search engines, and it will continue to be linked from the company's website (fooling a significant portion of Internet users who don't know the difference between mainspace and userspace). — Psychonaut 06:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Just a quick note to check whether this bullet point in G12 is easily understandable:
I'm not sure that this bit is as clear as it could be. What do people think this is trying to say (if people disagree, then the wording will need to be changed). Carcharoth 21:52, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
I think a better way to put this would be to say that something is only an obvious copyvio if it is clear who originally wrote the material. That leads logically to an examination of the page history to see if the majority of the text was added in a single chunk by a single user (in which case it is probably a copyvio). ie. if the page history shows evidence of an "organic" wiki creation of the text, then it is probably not a copyvio (or rather, it is probably the other website that is copying us). Saying that clearly is the problem here.
And just to show that this is never really as simple as it seems, there is the not inconceivable scenario where a random user creates an article based largely on text from a Wikipedia mirror, without realising that he is using text that already exists on Wikipedia under a different title. That is effectively a cut-and-paste without attribution, but via a Wikipedia mirror rather than the usual cutting and pasting between Wikipedia articles. ie. Article A is created and a Wikipedia mirror legitimately copies it as A*. Sometime later, article B is created when someone copies text from A* straight back into Wikipedia. One person sees that A and A* are identical, and tags it as copyvio. An admin comes along and correctly sees that A* is a mirror article, and so this is not a case of copyvio, and removes the tag. Meanwhile, someone else tags B as copyvio of A*, and a confused admin looks at the page history of B and sees that it was added as a single chunk of text, but that A* is a Wikipedia mirror, so B looks like a copyvio, but isn't. Carcharoth 00:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Having another look at G12, which seems a bit bloated, I think I'd be right to say that the aim is to allow speedy deletion of any blatant copyright violation, but we need to define what we mean by "blatant". How about the wording I've put in the header at WP:CP?
Is that clear enough? I think three of the current bullet points are rare exceptions that are all covered by the above, and could be dealt with at WP:CP: (1) the website has a GFDL-compatible licence allowing redistribution with attribution; (2) the copyright holder gives permission for redistribution and editing via Wikipedia; (3) the page history shows that the content was created at Wikipedia. The final bullet point reminds people that the correct action after establishing that this is indeed a blatant copyvio, can be either to speedy delete, or to revert to a version before the copyvio was introduced. Carcharoth 20:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I would like to propose the following be official added to the speedy deletion criteria for userpages:
This is already in effect, but it would be better if it was added "officially". — Mets501 ( talk) 21:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I would oppose the addition of this criterion. While I understand the principles of WP:DENY, I think this is an over-reaction. When I am checking on the history of certain pages and trying to determine whether an addition was vandalism or not, it has often been very helpful to check the user's page to see the history. It's much easier to look on the Talk page for a "blocked" notice than to try to navigate to the Block Log just to look up that one little fact. And, frankly, if someone has taken the time to prove that A is a sockpuppet of B, I want that small finding preserved. It helps me to figure out what to look for when the next sockpuppet is created. Rossami (talk) 12:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree, and also oppose this. I think deleting user pages is taking WP:DENY too far. The harm in keeping the pages (a slight possibility of glorification) outweighs the possible harm in being unable to unravel a complex sockpuppetry case. If you've ever tries to track down the history of something several years later (be it vandalism or simple page history tracking through redirects and so forth), it is amazing how disruptive these "housekeeping" deletes are at obscuring what happened. Carcharoth 12:40, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
I've been deleting the userpages of vandal accounts as soon as I indef them for ages. {{ Indefblocked}} is useful for community/ArbCom/whoever banned users, but it's not worth it for vandal only accounts. -- Steel 14:55, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
This is not related to WP:DENY, this is for cleaning up detritus that, for example, is a top result on Google searches. — Centrx→ talk • 19:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Regarding recent deletions of "replaceable" images under I7, have a look here: Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Deletion of promotional photos for a proposal.-- Konst.able Talk 09:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
If an editor makes a brief article about their obviously unremarkable and unremarked pet rabbit, it can only be deleted by grinding it through AfD or ProD. But if they made a brief article about their obviously unremarkable and unremarked brother, it can be speedily deleted. (Of course if they include even two magic words that their brother is "remarkably popular", then Oops, it has to go through laborious AfD or ProD).
Case in point: A DVD was made by a bunch of kids of stunts and skits. The article did not assert the subject's importance. I put it up for speedy-delete as "non-notable", but it was denied, saying non-notability is not criteria. I looked at A7 and decided that the lawyerly editor would likely reject that criterion since the DVD is a "thing". I did put it up again, asserting G11 (commercial promotion), since the article said it had been sold around town.
A7 is quite specific about limiting the criteria to "people, groups, companies and web content" since it mentions that set twice: "Unremarkable people, groups, companies and web content. An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject."
A7 should be modified to add the words "concept, and thing". Hu 05:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
An explicit example for discussion: Jopling street has the text (in its entirety): Jopling Street is a residential street located in North Ryde, NSW. I think this should be speedy deleted since it is about a thing and does not explain any notability and is very unlikely to have any notability, but as currently constructed, there is no criterion applicable without possibly provoking a denial from a lawyerly admin (just doin their job). Hu 01:02, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
No, A7 should not be modified this way. We don't throw up speedy deletion criteria for just any situation into which a few uncontroversial deletable articles fall: it needs to happen very frequently, and frankly, I've never seen another example of this at AfD. We just don't need it. Remember, we also have WP:PROD. Mango juice talk 04:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
While browsing new pages I came accross one where the contributor was clearly confused as to the purpose of Wikipedia. For discussions sake, the page was Sudanese doctors and the content was:
List of Sudanese Doctors
The main aim of this page is to give all Sudanese doctors, around the world, the opportunity of getting in touch with one another. Hopefully this page will help in encouraging everyone to contribute and share one's experiences, ideas, and projects. As a result, we hope that our beloved people will get the benefit that we, as Sudanese doctors, all strive to give.
Thank you,
Nadir Galal Eldin
Obviously not suitable for Wikipedia, but I didn't think it met any of the speedy criteria so I prodded it, giving "Wikipedia is not a social networking site" as my reason. Now, keep in mind that the first item under non-criteria is "Reasons derived from Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not". I left a nice little note on the contributor's talk page explaining what Wikipedia is and isn't, and while I was doing that someone came along and put a speedy tag on the article above the prod citing G11 as the speedy criteria.
Now, obviously the thing needs to go. But, it's not really blatent advertising. It's far more what Wikipedia is not. But I guess it's sort of advertising, sort of, maybe, kind of, a little. You could maybe say it exists to provide a service... but I think that's stretching it a little.
Anyway, what about instances like that where a page just doesn't quite fit any of the speedy criteria but patently doesn't belong in Wikipedia? Why aren't violations of WP:NOT speediable? ~ ONUnicorn ( Talk / Contribs) 17:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Is it only me who sees:
== Criteria ==u r such a freaking tard!!!!!! People sometimes use abbreviations to refer to these criteria (e.g. "A3" meaning articles, criterion 3), but for the sake of clarity this is not recommende
on the page! It is weird since it does not appear on the edit text and it was supposely removed by an AntiVandal bot in the last edit! I'm Confused...
Yepes! it seems fixed now! Thanks! Theups 20:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
There was an image recently mentioned on AN/I. The image in question was originally uploaded with source information just saying it was an advert for a sporting brand. And tagged as {{ Sportsposter}}. Since then the image has been retagged as {{ promophoto}}. The image is used in an article on the person appearing in the poster, no mention is made of the sporting brand let alone the specific advert let alone critical discussion of the advert.
There was some debate concerning if this qualified for replaceable fairuse, the conclusion of which was that it was indeed replaceable, during which time the person who had tagged it as {{ promophoto}} stated they hadn't previously been aware of what that actually meant in this context (i.e. part of a press pack).
Since I had been part of that discussion I tagged the image as criteria I7, as it (a) is wrongly tagged and (b) fails the fairuse criteria regardless.
Another admin subsequently came along and removed that tag saying that the image would not be speedy deleted. Upon querying this the admin told me that we don't speedy delete images for failing our fair use criteria (We're busy enough on csd as it stands apparently). I pointed out CSD I7 and the plain wording of this and the admin then stated that it was only for certain specific situations and only if the image was tagged within 24 hours of upload. I pointed out again that the image clearly met the criteria as laid out in CSD I7 and the 24 hours seemed to not be mentioned anywhere. This then became that it could only be tagged I7 48 hours after the original uploader was notified of the issue and that I had to prove the image had never been included in the press pack. The former is not a big issue, the latter is of course impossible, it involves proving a negative. I challenged this but the admin is adamant that for I7 to apply I have to do the impossible and prove a negative.
Since I believe this image is well within the plain language of CSD I7 and indeed wikipedia is not a bureacracy, I cannot see how this doing the impossible can be part of the criteria. Since the I believe the other admin to be quite experienced and apparently reasonably confident of their position, rather than just ignoring that, informing the user in question and deleting the image in question in 48 hours time (assuming no further information is revealed in that time), I though yI'd ask for some broader input here. Am I missing the point here, do we indeed demand the impossible in such situations, are there other images which fail out fairuse criteria/are incorrectly tagged which are having CSD tags removed for this? -- pgk 19:45, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Why is Wikipedia:Speedy deletions a separate page? --- RockMFR 19:07, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I just don't understand why it is separated from this one - for most users browsing through the deletion-related pages, they will rarely come across Wikipedia:Speedy deletions - they will usually end up here. It seems counter-intuitive to have these pages split up. --- RockMFR 07:48, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
At what point can we delete the hangon tag so an article can be speedy-deleted, because it is obviously a personal biography page of someone who is not notible? Check this page for an example of what I'm talking about. Thanks. JE.at.UWO U| T 06:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I felt it was time to give the DB-templates a much-needed update. I have a version at User:TrackerTV/KXRM3. The new template can be hid and unhid, to help preserve space. The reason and first sentence of the old one are in the top, which is colored safety orange to attract attention. It takes up less room than the db-meta (at top, substed). Please tell me what you think! TTV ( MyTV| PolygonZ| Green Valley) 18:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Articles about living persons that cite no sources, cite non-existent sources, or that cite only self-published and/or notoriously unreliable sources, may be speedily deleted. It is not necessary under this criterion for the article to be defamatory. Robert A.West ( Talk) 02:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, thank you for your comments. I can identify a lead balloon when one falls on my head. Robert A.West ( Talk) 04:30, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
All we need is a rule saying 'if Wikipedia policy allows enough of a page's content to be deleted on sight that the rest of the page is a CSD, that can be deleted too, unless there is a version in the history that can be reverted to'. This is just common sense (and IMO IAR-able if it isn't implied by some policy somewhere), and would lead to 'if an entire article is a BLP violation, it can be deleted if there is no clean version in the history'. I don't see an immediate need to delete unsourced BLPs if they don't say anything potentially libelous or negative. Although I think it would be an improvement if any page without sources could be speedied (pages can't be WP:AFC'd without sources, and what makes username contributors more reliable than anons?), I suspect consensus would be strongly against this. -- ais523 14:09, 13 November 2006 ( U T C)
Hmm, unfortunate timing, and it's funny when presented here people missed the value and focused on possible negatives, whereas when presented at User:Dmcdevit/CSD addition the advantages were obvious. Thanks for the heads up Radiant. The only difference being the topic doesn't matter. It's hard to overestimate how valuable this will be in turning the tide towards properly sourcing articles. I just don't buy the arguments that it is newbie biting, we need to explain our policies to newbies all the time. This simply involves no longer looking the other way when articles fail to meet our key content policies. We are well past the time where we need just any content, we need reliable, sourced material. The issue of what meets a RS is also completely avoided by saying there isn't any discretion on that point. If there is a source, it doesn't meet the new CSD. - Taxman Talk 14:49, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
What this new CSD does is come at it from both sides. — It is worth noting at this point that it has always been possible to delete unverifiable articles via AFD, we have had tags such as {{ unreferenced}} for a long time, and it has always been possible to "come at this from both sides". Uncle G 11:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)It is unfair to make later editors dig for sources, particularly when the initial content is questionable. Those who write articles likely to be deemed in need of fact checking, for whatever reason, should expect to assist by providing references, ideally when the article is first written.
A9. Any article that was created after 12:36, Sunday, June 30, 2024 ( UTC) insert date criterion gains consensus, has and has never had any references, and has been tagged with {{ some tag}} for over 14 days, may be deleted without a discussion.
I've phrased it as a CSD here, but am open to other suggestions. This is a new section because it's no longer restricted to BLPs but applies to anything. Presumably this would use a big angry template that is places on the top of the article, with a corresponding User talk: warning template, saying something like "This article will be deleted unless sources are provided." (with more information below). As I said in the previous section, anons have to provide sources; why not users with usernames? -- ais523 18:01, 13 November 2006 ( U T C)
This process moves the burden of proof back where it belongs. We can't prove a negative, but we can demand a positive. If Verifiability is a non-negotiable requirement, then writing an article that completely lacks sources is an assertion that sources are obvious and easy to find. If we can't find an arguably reliable source in two weeks, it isn't easy. If sources are neither provided nor obvious, there is nothing to discuss, so an AFD is a waste of time and effort.
Now, maybe this process should be DFV (delete for verifiability) or some other name. The only keep vote that matters is a halfway-decent source for enough of the article that we would have at least a decent stub left if the article were reduced to the verifiable content. Once that threshold is reached, the case is closed.
If time runs out, we can always undelete if someone finds an actual source later. If no Wikipedian cares enough about the topic to research and fix it, the topic can't be that important. Robert A.West ( Talk) 20:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
And you should note that equally all too often at AFD we get editors who say "Delete. This article doesn't cite any sources.". That's an equally bad argument in the opposite direction. An article is only deletable for being unverifiable if both it cites no sources and no sources can be found when editors make reasonable efforts to find some themselves. Merely arguing that an article is unverifiable without putting in the effort to do the research and check that no sources can be found does not cut the mustard, also.
Expanding CSD criteria is not the way to educate editors into not making either of those bad arguments at AFD. Uncle G 11:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
An article, A is created without references by editor X, a specialist who understands the field and knows the sources. It is noticed after a few months by editor Y, who has an interest in the area, looks for references, but can't find any. He puts it up for AFD. Editor Z comes along and thinks the article is a great piece of prose, if only it had references, but has no clue where to look for them, or perhaps no time.
Who should have the burden of finding the references? X could have added them trivially, but may not be watching the article -- may have left Wikipedia. Y tried his best and has given up. Z wants the article kept.
In my mind, X was in the best position to help Wikipedia and failed. He overlooked, or did not understand, "Encyclopedic content must be verifiable." Y has tried to help Wikipedia, yet it seems that many editors want him to work harder and find references that he cannot know for certain exist. Z has done very little to help Wikipedia, but many editors feel that he has no responsibility.
Who should have the burden, and how should it be enforced? Robert A.West ( Talk) 21:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
In fact, in terms of time, the opposite would be a more appropriate speedy deletion criteria: If no one has added any sources on an article for two years, that indicates a lot more about the encyclopedic quality of the subject than no sources added for two weeks. New articles warrant time to be improved; old articles with no sources and no one interested in editing them warrant a more relaxed view of A7, but nothing so strict as "any article after 14 days". I say again, however, verifiable does not mean cited; people are free to add information to Wikipedia without being required to re-read all the many books they have read on a subject, or tweak citations. A policy requiring citation would turn off the experts who actually know about a subject, and would attract only the people who are in the process of learning a subject, out of a single book which they have in front of them. — Centrx→ talk • 21:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Now, we do need to clean house of junk, but it's probably best to start with the oldest junk articles that have never been improved than the newest articles that may actually become good articles. Most of the articles on Wikipedia today would have been deleted under this proposal. Although, looking at New pages, it may be best to just forget about new CSDs and prohibit new page creation altogether, except perhaps by accounts 3 months old or something. I just clicked on about 20 articles in new pages and only 2 should probably be on Wikipedia, both happen to have been added by users since 2005. If the problem is new junk being created—and there is a lot of junk—the solution is not to delete 90% of it (and it will be that high with the CSD proposed here), but to limit article creation; most legitimate articles are already created, and any new ones can be added through WP:AFC or by less recently registered users. — Centrx→ talk • 03:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
By publishing changes, you agree to the Terms of Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 4.0 License and the GFDL. You agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license.
'; perhaps say 'Encyclopedic content must be verifiable and provide sources'). To do that, however, we need a deletion criterion in place (speedy, manadatory AfD closure, DfV, or whatever). To Centrx: The point of a CSD is not to get rid of every bad article, just to filter some obviously bad ones to save time and effort (although I'm sure you already new that), and the reason about 90% of new pages violate the new rule is that the rule doesn't exist (so there isn't any point in complying with it). To Rossami: most experts will be able to cite the facts they add trivially, because if they're well-known information in the field they'll be in the standard reference books. Academic experts will already be used to doing this when writing papers. -- ais523 09:00, 14 November 2006 ( U T C)
This concept has been mentioned quite a bit in recent discussions on this page. Here's a a specific policy proposal with explanatory text. This is the result of considerable thought toward all the views expressed, and it has already generated quite a bit of positive feedback on the talk page (when it was in my userspace). Please take a look at it and see what you think. We hope it can become an official CSD sometime in the future. Dmcdevit· t 08:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Does the length of an article have any effect on whether it is speedy-able or not?- K37 08:51, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Criterion G8 has been causing confusion, because it states talk pages should not be deleted "if they contain deletion discussion that isn't logged elsewhere". This exception clause is several years old and stems from the time when deletion was debated on an article talk page, instead of on AFD as we do now. Hence, it is no longer relevant to make this exception, and I think it should be removed since people are using it as a bureaucratic argument to argue for keeping post-deletion arguments ("why is tihs paeg deleted????2??"). ( Radiant) 10:12, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if it is of any relevance or not to this discussion, but I thought I'd stop by and mention the category and template I created for using talk pages to request articles: Category:Wikipedia articles requested through talk page creation and {{ User:BigNate37/TM/Future article talk page}}. It is, at least somewhat, relevant to CSD G8. BigNate37 (T) 18:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Anyone want to save me a trip in the archives and explain the rationale behind G5? Is there a reason we should be deleting otherwise good contributions from banned users? Is it a GFDL issue or something else? -- badlydrawnjeff talk 19:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Though in cases where someone is gaming the system, G5 can disrupt things quite badly when this is not realised until later. An example is when a discussion is started that looks OK, and then a few hours, days, weeks, later, the initiator of the discussion (say, a proposed policy) is exposed as a sockpuppet. G5 deletion can then disrupt good-faith discussion of the proposal, and a dispute can break out over whether to calmly finish the discussion with the new information (that the person who started it was a banned user), or to hysterically scream "we've been trolled" and delete everything. The latter behaviour seems, to me, to play into the hands of the trolls, who probably get a kick out of seeing other people's commeents deleted along with theirs. Which brings me to another point - I've never been clear at what point you can assess whether a troll is a "major" author of a page, or whether it is even productive to try this. Deletion of only the troll's edits I can understand, but not other people's edits as well. And policy pages and article pages edits yes, but don't disrupt talk page discussion by deleting the trolling edits. Just add a template, or something. Carcharoth 23:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Can there be a policy that we can speedy delete dictionary articles? A db template is desperately needed on these "dictionary" articles. Diez2 19:41, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
This came up at the administrator's noticeboard, and while one person said we don't need any criterion because it's common sense, another noted the differences between what would be considered child pornography in other nations. Since the servers are located in Florida, we must base our regulations on that, and, while I'm fairly certain we all agree that child pornography is vile, we can't expect anyone who ever comes here to know exactly what constitutes it in terms of age. Thus, what I hope would be uncontroversial, to be added as I9:
Hopefully this is a no-brainer, and hopefully we can be mature enough as a community to understand the difference between child pornography and, say, questionable images from a studio film (see Child Bride for an example of something that shouldn't fall under this criteria, but would obviously be a bit controversial). -- badlydrawnjeff talk 14:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Because illegal material is not permitted (AFAIK) nor is it needed in writing an encyclopedia, and because we don't get much if any child pornography, this would be unnecessary instruction creep. It does two things: belittles other rarely occuring but seriously illegal content (i.e. see Official Secrets) and it suggests to people that we have a child porn problem. Copyright violations are illegal and would be instruction creep, but those do come up and we do often have copyright problems. BigNate37 (T) 22:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
A special category of speedy delete will act as a stimulus to a certain kind of vandal. I agree that too much instruction creep can be counter-productive. Just use a general {{delete|Brief reason}} tag. If the image is clearly a violation, it will speedily get deleted. Hu 01:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree that allegedly illegal material should not be resolved via a deletion debate but it also shouldn't be dealt with via this process. Illegal material should be dealt with via WP:OFFICE and the Foundation's counsel. We are not lawyers and should not be trying to make that determination of fact. We can delete because it's inappropriate, editorially unnecessary, etc. but we shouldn't be trying to decide that something is illegal in any one jurisdiction - US or otherwise. Rossami (talk) 01:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
No no no, this is a terrible idea. We don't need rules creep, especially ridiculous rules creep like this. We all know that child porn can be deleted on sight; we don't need it encoded into a rule. Doing so just makes us look extremely bad. Others will point to us and say, "They have such a child pornography problem that they need a rule to be able to delete it." -- Cyde Weys 04:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't child porn already fall under CSD G3 (vandalism)? Jesse Viviano 17:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey guys, this issue was argued to death for 2 years straight on the lolicon article. It's one of Wikipedia's more legendary debates actually. The outcome of that debate was no consensus. It's too much of a gray area. Consider for example, Image:BlindFaithBlindFaith.jpg or Image:Virgin_Killer.jpg, or the previously mentioned Image:Childbride.jpeg. This has to be decided on a case-by-case basis. Obviously, blatant child porn is going to be deleted on sight. Having a policy about it, however, is only going to reignite old flame wars and won't accomplish anything productive, IMO. Kaldari 02:33, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I feel like I being daft here but aren't G12 and I6 contradictory? G12 says you can immediately delete any image which has no fair use claim. I6 says you can delete any image which has no fair use claim "seven days after it was uploaded" and are in CAT:NR... It seems like G12 has rendered I6 useless, hasn't it? Maybe I7 and I4 as well - they both require a waiting period while G12 doesn't. CAT:CSD is getting flooded with images recently with everyone rushing to G12. — Wknight94 ( talk) 19:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Section title says it all. There's no reason to make an article about a 7th grader's VB project undergo an AFD discussion just because the prod was contested. Simões ( talk/ contribs) 03:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Here are the software AfD results for the month of October:
All these nominations were for allegedly failing notability criteria. I count 71 deletes, 11 keeps, 6 no consensuses, and 3 nominations withdrawn for a total of 91 nominations. Simões ( talk/ contribs) 21:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Unremarkable people, groups, companies and web content. An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject. If the assertion is controversial or there has been a previous AfD, the article should be nominated for AfD instead. Note: Avoid the word "vanity" in deletion summaries since it may be considered insulting.
Okay, Badlydrawnjeff's intransigent inclusionism aside, are there any reasons why the item shouldn't be added? If not, I think we should go ahead and take it to a vote to see there is sufficient consensus to add "software" (or some variant wording thereof) to CSD A7. Simões ( talk/ contribs) 19:50, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Scanning the sample above, it looks like 1-2 per day. That's not a tremendous burden on the current discussion-based system. If the rates in the sample above stay true, I'd say that a new speedy-deletion criterion (or expansion of the existing criterion) is not yet necessary. Instruction creep is to be avoided whenever possible. Rossami (talk) 21:23, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm sympathetic to some of the concerns given above, especially avoiding instruction creep. My main motivation for wanting to see this added to the A7 criteria is an appeal to the virtue of consistency: If John Q. Programmer writes an article on himself and his gem of a software project (call it John's Amazing Browser Plugin), it is absurd that John's autobiography will get uncontroversially speedied, but the article on his plugin requires discussion prior to deletion. Instruction creep is somewhat avoidable by merging criteria (in this case, finding a term that captures both "web content" and "software"). As for those who are opposed to A7 (or speedy deletion) in general, I find it problematic that these voices only pop up in discussions having nothing to do with the merits or lack of merits of A7 (or speedy deletion) as such. It seems akin to thread hijacking. Simões ( talk/ contribs) 19:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Talk pages of articles that do not exist can sometimes be useful. For example, I attempted to start a discussion about redirecting at Talk:Science fact before I redirected it, and have stated at Talk:James Provan that it should be reserved for the Parliament member. -- Gray Porpo ise 21:57, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone object if I add explicitly the text "This criteria does not apply to redirects in other languages (such as Japanese and Chinese, or any redirect in the category Redirects from alternative languages)." to criteria R3? I've seen at least one user whose edits mostly consisted of tagging Korean-language redirects as {{ db-r3}}; some were actually deleted. The advantage of foreign-language redirects is that they increase our articles' Google-ability and benefit those who know the subject only by the foreign language name. Kimchi. sg 14:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Why are talk pages of images on commons exceptions to G8? If the image is on commons, the discussion should be on commons, no? I asked about this on the administrator's noticeboard a while back (before I noticed that was listed as an exception here) and the one person who replied agreed they should be deleted unless it questions the licencing of the image. I think all useful content should be merged to the commons talk page and then they should be deleted from the Wikipedia space. VegaDark 05:03, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Under non criteria, one listed is "Non-notable subjects with their importance asserted". What happens if someone makes an assertion of notability, but it's totally fraudulent (Not even "...was the President of the United States", but something that's easily proven totally false by a legit source. If that is the only thing holding it back from being CSD, does proving it false provide a legit reason to CSD it? 68.39.174.238 03:57, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
CSD it? 68.39.174.238 03:57, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
A common deletion criteria on RfD is redirects from the mainspace to the Wikipedia: namespace. Would anyone object to the adding of adding the criteria R4 - Redirects from the Main Space to another namespace that do not serve an inherently encyclopedic purpose. ^ demon [omg plz] 01:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Cross-namespace redirects are nearly always deleted on RfD anyway (the same arguments come up in just about every debate, and they seem to be 'delete' on balance). The major exception (not counting the WP: pseudonamespace), which should be an explicit exception in the CSD, is Transwiki; there's some sort of policy on Meta that this should be a redirect to the transwiki log on every Wikimedia Foundation wiki as far as I remember. -- ais523 09:13, 30 November 2006 ( U T C)
In response to EVula: That already exists in the form of CSD R2. How about a rephrase: Redirects from the Main Space to another namespace that do not serve an inherently encyclopedic purpose, with the exception of shortcuts, such as WP, WT, P, C, etc. ^ demon [omg plz] 21:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Namespaces exist for a reason, all the namespaces have, or can have abbreviations, like WP or CAT. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 22:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
There's a related discussion at
Wikipedia talk:Redirect#Cross-namespace redirects. Apparently the page was changed to say that cross-namespace redirects should only be deleted if they could conflict with an encyclopedia article name. Per Improv and others, that seems like a pretty large change in how they're handled. --
Interiot
02:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)
![]() | This is an archive of past discussions. Do not edit the contents of this page. If you wish to start a new discussion or revive an old one, please do so on the current talk page. |
Archive 10 | ← | Archive 13 | Archive 14 | Archive 15 | Archive 16 | Archive 17 | → | Archive 20 |
I'm slightly confused by this. Technically, this can be circumvented by someone having a list of images that they want to view as a gallery (even maintaining it off-wiki), and then, when they want to view the gallery (usually for maintenance purposes, eg. how good is the coverage in this particular area, can we use these images in a better way, etc), the user can temporarily stick the list up in the correct format, with the gallery tags around them. And then remove it again after a few hours, when the work is completed. Is this acceptable? I assume that U3 is aimed at permanent galleries, but even in the case where gallerisation is undone, the gallery version will still be available in the page history, so a user could save a page with a link to that version, and they could then look at the gallery whenever they wanted. An example of this, not in userspace, but in a WikiProject, is at Wikipedia:WikiProject_Middle-earth/Images. I would guess other WikiProjects have similar pages. The one that usually springs to mind is Wikipedia:WikiProject_Harry_Potter/Images. Carcharoth 22:45, 17 October 2006 (UTC)
Why is there a template by that name in Category:Speedy deletion templates ? -- ArmadilloFromHell 06:32, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
This edit "simplified" blogs, podcasts, webcomic, etc. to "website", which could be seen as more restrictive (I'm thinking of, for example, non-notable videos that exist on sites like YouTube and that occasionally are promoted improperly here). A quick glance of this page and recent archives doesn't turn up discussion of this change, and {{ db-web}} still reflects the more expansive version. So I'm guessing that the restriction from "web content" to "website" wasn't fully intended. Am I missing something? — TKD:: Talk 06:58, 18 October 2006 (UTC)
From Wikipedia:Biographies of living persons: Remove unsourced or poorly sourced controversial material
"Administrators encountering biographies that are unsourced and controversial in tone, where there is no NPOV version to revert to, should delete the article without discussion (see WP:CSD criterion A6)."
A small fix seems to be in order. Brimba 18:28, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Please excuse me for a moment while I engage in utterly useless pedantry, to no real purpose other than my own self-amusement.
The word "wherefore" actually means "why", not "where". "Wherefore art thou Romeo?" is actually asking "Why are you a Montague, and not some schmoe my family isn't feuding with?" Wiktionary tells the tale.
Having said that, I use the word "wherefore" as a synonym for "where" with alarming frequency myself.
Anyhow, now you know. And knowing is some fraction of the battle. Go Joe.
We return you now to your regularly scheduled policy talk page.
All the best,
Ξxtreme Unction
22:11, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
P.S. It is gratifying to see that I am not the only pedantic dork editing this subsection. ;-)
I see that even when you leave the Barrens, you never REALLY leave the Barrens. Kind of a touch the devil type of thing.
Brimba
22:25, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
Oops. I stand corrected. Must resist the pedantry... Carcharoth 23:29, 19 October 2006 (UTC)
User talk pages aren't speediable per CSD U1, right? I'm seeing this a lot lately (and I always decline the deletion), but maybe I'm wrong? Perhaps the language needs to be clarified. -- Merope 13:45, 20 October 2006 (UTC)
Hello. A quick question. Kent class cruiser/Temp has already been suggested for speedy deletion, but was changed to a merge and later a redirect. However, I really doubt anyone would ever type that in a search box, and the history content is made of mostly clean up stuff. Could the article be deleted under G6? I kind of don't like having that article in my watchlist, appearing from time to time. Thanks. -- ReyBrujo 00:19, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
The quick reference at CAT:CSD lists "I8: Attack Images" and "I9: Identical on Commons" while there is no longer an I9 at here. We should probably change one or the other so they coincide. Why didn't we leave I8 as (This criterion has been superseded by G10 and is kept for historical reasons.) and keep I9 at I9, as we did with A6? Hope this makes sense, DVD+ R/W 00:48, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
WP:NDT says, "When spotted, such templates tend to be speedily deleted because they're similar to templates we've debated and deleted in the past." However, the only thing CSD says about templates is, "divisive and inflammatory". Are disclaimer templates considered divisive and inflammatory? If so, perhaps that could be clarified. Otherwise, maybe "disclaimer template" should be added to CSD. I realize that NDT is merely a guideline, but it seems silly to go through a prod or TfD discussion when the outcome is a foregone conclusion. Nevertheless, I don't feel comfortable adding db to Template:Warning Upsetting without a clear CSD. Am I being overly cautious? The only argument I can think of against adding "disclaimer template" as a CSD is that it may not be obvious whether a given template is a disclaimer template, and that strikes me as unlikely. Xtifr tälk 04:59, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Can a better example be provided for I7 please? It's not clear enough to me what is covered by it. Thanks. jd || talk || 21:31, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
Confirm this for me, folks. Has it been eliminated? - CrazyRussian talk/ email 23:53, 22 October 2006 (UTC)
I actually did ask Jimbo about the 48-hour issue; my understanding was that the 48-hour part of the rule was to prevent mirrors from being mistaken for a copyvio source. His response was interesting: basically, that we should stop worrying so much about deleting stuff that could remain, because it should be no big deal. Better to err on the side of deletion when dealing with copyvios; mistakes can always be undone. Here's the diff: [1]. Mango juice talk 04:56, 24 October 2006 (UTC)
Shouldn't this be transcluded onto the page so that users and admins can easily place it on their user pages for quick reference? Like, Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion/Templates or Wikipedia:Criteria for speedy deletion/Deletion templates? Cbrown1023 20:02, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
I just changed:
to
The earlier verstion seemed a bit vague, and could be taken to mean that if a copyvio has been rewritten a bit, maybe moved around, wikified, a typo fixed, that it's not a copyvio anymore. Copyvio content should be purged from the page history if possible. However, with pre-existing or older articles, usually what was copy and pasted has had new introductions added, and otherwise substantial new content written around it. So rather than delete the whole thing, I think we need to clarify that practice is to delete the copyvio but leave the rest, if it can stand on its own as an article (even if it's just a short stub).
If nothing else, I think the new wording is more clear but still has the same meaning. -- W.marsh 22:14, 23 October 2006 (UTC)
The purpose of it was to prevent the deletion of articles that were created organically on the wiki. Also, substantial is too vague a word in relation to "content" and many articles are going to get deleted when a revert would be more appropriate. — Centrx→ talk • 17:14, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
{{ db-attack}} automatically places pages into Category:Attack pages for speedy deletion. Since copyright violations are just as big a concern, would it be a good idea to do the same kind of thing with {{ db-copyvio}}? I suspect this could be useful in a few different ways, assuming Category:Attack pages for speedy deletion is itself useful. -- Omicronpersei8 ( talk) 04:11, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm going to go ahead and give this category a test run. I also notice the controversial G11 has spawned its own subcategory, and there's one for userboxes I hadn't noticed before, so this seems like a pretty logical addition and an uncontroversial one as long as it doesn't spur the assembly of a group of Internet lawyers who sit on the category page clicking refresh all day. Or... something. -- Omicronpersei8 ( talk) 16:53, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
This may be a good idea not because they be urgent, but because they require a different sort of examination than the others and would be helpful to analyze what pages are being tagged. — Centrx→ talk • 17:39, 25 October 2006 (UTC)
I do not care if subcategories are created, so long as the articles all still appear in the main category. When you create subcategories, it is much easier for stuff to be overlooked. Something to let us know when an article has been in tagged for a long time might also be good, but it would be nice to do it without having to split the articles up by the day they were tagged, though. -- Kjkolb 08:16, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
There are a bunch of images tagged for speedy deletion because they use an "educational and non-commercial only" license. The strange thing is that these images were recently uploaded and they have no other edits to them besides the upload. I went to the upload page and, incredibly, there is an option for educational and non-commercial only, although is under the invalid heading. I'm guessing that choosing that option and then uploading the image automatically puts the picture in the speedy deletion category. This is bizarre, to me. Why do we let people upload pictures under that license? The only thing that I can guess is that it is so they do not choose a different license, and this way allows the images to be automatically tagged for deletion (putting the license under the invalid heading interferes with this plan, though, since people may chose a different one because of it). However, it gives people the impression license is okay, if they do not notice or do not understand the "invalid" in the menu and do not scroll down on the image page to see the speedy deletion notice (even if they do scroll down, there is a good chance it will confuse the hell out of them since the license is a choice on the upload page). Also, even if they do notice and understand the "invalid", they might think that it is a mistake since the upload still works.
Another crazy thing is the extra work that is created for admins who do speedy deletions. Even if you want to use this confusing system, you could just have the images deleted automatically by a bot, with or without a delay. The images should be in a separate category, too, so they do not clog up the main one.
There is also a much simpler system. You could have the license still be an option, but when the person tries to upload the image, it does not work and an error message explains that such images are not allowed and has a link for more information. The error message could show up on the upload page or the browser could be redirected to an error page. Finally, you could put an explicit notice on the upload page about not being able to use images with that license with a link for more information. -- Kjkolb 09:00, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Hi, I'm want to put {{db-copyvio}} to this page: Source four, because the subject is copyrighted product name and all of its sources are taken from here: [2]. Is this a blatant copyvio? I want to ask first, because this is my first time to put an article into speedy deletion and usually I'm not a deletionist. Thanks in advance. — Indon ( reply) — 15:42, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
One of the key parts of a copyvio is that the text is copied. — Centrx→ talk • 19:14, 26 October 2006 (UTC)
Hey, would it be a good idea to add to the bottom of the {{ db-attack}} template, "Please consider adding {{ subst:attack-warn}}? This would go on the user talk page and would be a strong deterrent to these attack pages. Take a look at the template. Diez2 15:00, 27 October 2006 (UTC)
I just noticed that while the criteria in CSD:G12 require only
Blatant copyright infringement which meets these parameters:
- Material was copied from another website which does not have a license compatible with Wikipedia;
- There is no non-infringing content in the page history worth saving.
- The infringement was introduced at once by a single person rather than created organically on wiki and then copied by another website such as one of the many Wikipedia mirrors.
- Uploader does not assert permission (for images: no assertion aside from tags) or fair use, or the assertion is questionable;
the corresponding section in
Wikipedia:Copyright problems says:
Clearly these are out of sync, in that the WP:CP version requires also the the material be "copied from the website of a commercial content provider (directly engaged in making money from the content)", but that is not in G12. My memory of how copyvio-speedys evolved is hazy, and I can't seem to find the right diffs, but wasn't it the case that the commercial content provider was originally part of G12, and then dropped? If so, the language over at WP:CP should probably be updated. Or do I have this wrong? -- MCB 05:34, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
I'm just wondering if some user posts his resume a) as a main space article or b) as his userpage would it be speedily deletable under CSD G11? MER-C 07:52, 28 October 2006 (UTC)
Any objections to adding an optional XFD discussion link parameter to {{ db-repost}} (an example is here)? Apologies if this has been discussed before – I didn't find such a conversation in a quick search. -- Omicronpersei8 ( talk) 03:28, 29 October 2006 (UTC)
The policy on recreation of deleted material currently reads as follows (emphasis mine):
What is the rationale for allowing users to keep copies of deleted articles in userspace? I can see a few possibilities for abuse here. For example, say someone creates a vanity article for a company with the hope of promoting it on their website ("Look how famous I am! I'm on Wikipedia!") or using it to boost their search engine ranking for a particular search term. (As we know, Google tends to rank Wikipedia articles quite highly, and Wikipedia is mirrored extensively, increasing the chances that the vanity article will come up in a web search.) The article gets deleted, but a Wikipedia user (possibly with an interest in the company) makes an identical copy as a user subpage. Therefore the page will continue to fulfulling its original vanity purpose: it will continue to be mirrored and indexed by search engines, and it will continue to be linked from the company's website (fooling a significant portion of Internet users who don't know the difference between mainspace and userspace). — Psychonaut 06:07, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
Just a quick note to check whether this bullet point in G12 is easily understandable:
I'm not sure that this bit is as clear as it could be. What do people think this is trying to say (if people disagree, then the wording will need to be changed). Carcharoth 21:52, 30 October 2006 (UTC)
I think a better way to put this would be to say that something is only an obvious copyvio if it is clear who originally wrote the material. That leads logically to an examination of the page history to see if the majority of the text was added in a single chunk by a single user (in which case it is probably a copyvio). ie. if the page history shows evidence of an "organic" wiki creation of the text, then it is probably not a copyvio (or rather, it is probably the other website that is copying us). Saying that clearly is the problem here.
And just to show that this is never really as simple as it seems, there is the not inconceivable scenario where a random user creates an article based largely on text from a Wikipedia mirror, without realising that he is using text that already exists on Wikipedia under a different title. That is effectively a cut-and-paste without attribution, but via a Wikipedia mirror rather than the usual cutting and pasting between Wikipedia articles. ie. Article A is created and a Wikipedia mirror legitimately copies it as A*. Sometime later, article B is created when someone copies text from A* straight back into Wikipedia. One person sees that A and A* are identical, and tags it as copyvio. An admin comes along and correctly sees that A* is a mirror article, and so this is not a case of copyvio, and removes the tag. Meanwhile, someone else tags B as copyvio of A*, and a confused admin looks at the page history of B and sees that it was added as a single chunk of text, but that A* is a Wikipedia mirror, so B looks like a copyvio, but isn't. Carcharoth 00:10, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
Having another look at G12, which seems a bit bloated, I think I'd be right to say that the aim is to allow speedy deletion of any blatant copyright violation, but we need to define what we mean by "blatant". How about the wording I've put in the header at WP:CP?
Is that clear enough? I think three of the current bullet points are rare exceptions that are all covered by the above, and could be dealt with at WP:CP: (1) the website has a GFDL-compatible licence allowing redistribution with attribution; (2) the copyright holder gives permission for redistribution and editing via Wikipedia; (3) the page history shows that the content was created at Wikipedia. The final bullet point reminds people that the correct action after establishing that this is indeed a blatant copyvio, can be either to speedy delete, or to revert to a version before the copyvio was introduced. Carcharoth 20:49, 31 October 2006 (UTC)
I would like to propose the following be official added to the speedy deletion criteria for userpages:
This is already in effect, but it would be better if it was added "officially". — Mets501 ( talk) 21:29, 3 November 2006 (UTC)
I would oppose the addition of this criterion. While I understand the principles of WP:DENY, I think this is an over-reaction. When I am checking on the history of certain pages and trying to determine whether an addition was vandalism or not, it has often been very helpful to check the user's page to see the history. It's much easier to look on the Talk page for a "blocked" notice than to try to navigate to the Block Log just to look up that one little fact. And, frankly, if someone has taken the time to prove that A is a sockpuppet of B, I want that small finding preserved. It helps me to figure out what to look for when the next sockpuppet is created. Rossami (talk) 12:35, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree, and also oppose this. I think deleting user pages is taking WP:DENY too far. The harm in keeping the pages (a slight possibility of glorification) outweighs the possible harm in being unable to unravel a complex sockpuppetry case. If you've ever tries to track down the history of something several years later (be it vandalism or simple page history tracking through redirects and so forth), it is amazing how disruptive these "housekeeping" deletes are at obscuring what happened. Carcharoth 12:40, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
I've been deleting the userpages of vandal accounts as soon as I indef them for ages. {{ Indefblocked}} is useful for community/ArbCom/whoever banned users, but it's not worth it for vandal only accounts. -- Steel 14:55, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
This is not related to WP:DENY, this is for cleaning up detritus that, for example, is a top result on Google searches. — Centrx→ talk • 19:22, 4 November 2006 (UTC)
Regarding recent deletions of "replaceable" images under I7, have a look here: Wikipedia:Village pump (policy)#Deletion of promotional photos for a proposal.-- Konst.able Talk 09:03, 5 November 2006 (UTC)
If an editor makes a brief article about their obviously unremarkable and unremarked pet rabbit, it can only be deleted by grinding it through AfD or ProD. But if they made a brief article about their obviously unremarkable and unremarked brother, it can be speedily deleted. (Of course if they include even two magic words that their brother is "remarkably popular", then Oops, it has to go through laborious AfD or ProD).
Case in point: A DVD was made by a bunch of kids of stunts and skits. The article did not assert the subject's importance. I put it up for speedy-delete as "non-notable", but it was denied, saying non-notability is not criteria. I looked at A7 and decided that the lawyerly editor would likely reject that criterion since the DVD is a "thing". I did put it up again, asserting G11 (commercial promotion), since the article said it had been sold around town.
A7 is quite specific about limiting the criteria to "people, groups, companies and web content" since it mentions that set twice: "Unremarkable people, groups, companies and web content. An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject."
A7 should be modified to add the words "concept, and thing". Hu 05:31, 6 November 2006 (UTC)
An explicit example for discussion: Jopling street has the text (in its entirety): Jopling Street is a residential street located in North Ryde, NSW. I think this should be speedy deleted since it is about a thing and does not explain any notability and is very unlikely to have any notability, but as currently constructed, there is no criterion applicable without possibly provoking a denial from a lawyerly admin (just doin their job). Hu 01:02, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
No, A7 should not be modified this way. We don't throw up speedy deletion criteria for just any situation into which a few uncontroversial deletable articles fall: it needs to happen very frequently, and frankly, I've never seen another example of this at AfD. We just don't need it. Remember, we also have WP:PROD. Mango juice talk 04:44, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
While browsing new pages I came accross one where the contributor was clearly confused as to the purpose of Wikipedia. For discussions sake, the page was Sudanese doctors and the content was:
List of Sudanese Doctors
The main aim of this page is to give all Sudanese doctors, around the world, the opportunity of getting in touch with one another. Hopefully this page will help in encouraging everyone to contribute and share one's experiences, ideas, and projects. As a result, we hope that our beloved people will get the benefit that we, as Sudanese doctors, all strive to give.
Thank you,
Nadir Galal Eldin
Obviously not suitable for Wikipedia, but I didn't think it met any of the speedy criteria so I prodded it, giving "Wikipedia is not a social networking site" as my reason. Now, keep in mind that the first item under non-criteria is "Reasons derived from Wikipedia:What Wikipedia is not". I left a nice little note on the contributor's talk page explaining what Wikipedia is and isn't, and while I was doing that someone came along and put a speedy tag on the article above the prod citing G11 as the speedy criteria.
Now, obviously the thing needs to go. But, it's not really blatent advertising. It's far more what Wikipedia is not. But I guess it's sort of advertising, sort of, maybe, kind of, a little. You could maybe say it exists to provide a service... but I think that's stretching it a little.
Anyway, what about instances like that where a page just doesn't quite fit any of the speedy criteria but patently doesn't belong in Wikipedia? Why aren't violations of WP:NOT speediable? ~ ONUnicorn ( Talk / Contribs) 17:15, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
Is it only me who sees:
== Criteria ==u r such a freaking tard!!!!!! People sometimes use abbreviations to refer to these criteria (e.g. "A3" meaning articles, criterion 3), but for the sake of clarity this is not recommende
on the page! It is weird since it does not appear on the edit text and it was supposely removed by an AntiVandal bot in the last edit! I'm Confused...
Yepes! it seems fixed now! Thanks! Theups 20:03, 7 November 2006 (UTC)
There was an image recently mentioned on AN/I. The image in question was originally uploaded with source information just saying it was an advert for a sporting brand. And tagged as {{ Sportsposter}}. Since then the image has been retagged as {{ promophoto}}. The image is used in an article on the person appearing in the poster, no mention is made of the sporting brand let alone the specific advert let alone critical discussion of the advert.
There was some debate concerning if this qualified for replaceable fairuse, the conclusion of which was that it was indeed replaceable, during which time the person who had tagged it as {{ promophoto}} stated they hadn't previously been aware of what that actually meant in this context (i.e. part of a press pack).
Since I had been part of that discussion I tagged the image as criteria I7, as it (a) is wrongly tagged and (b) fails the fairuse criteria regardless.
Another admin subsequently came along and removed that tag saying that the image would not be speedy deleted. Upon querying this the admin told me that we don't speedy delete images for failing our fair use criteria (We're busy enough on csd as it stands apparently). I pointed out CSD I7 and the plain wording of this and the admin then stated that it was only for certain specific situations and only if the image was tagged within 24 hours of upload. I pointed out again that the image clearly met the criteria as laid out in CSD I7 and the 24 hours seemed to not be mentioned anywhere. This then became that it could only be tagged I7 48 hours after the original uploader was notified of the issue and that I had to prove the image had never been included in the press pack. The former is not a big issue, the latter is of course impossible, it involves proving a negative. I challenged this but the admin is adamant that for I7 to apply I have to do the impossible and prove a negative.
Since I believe this image is well within the plain language of CSD I7 and indeed wikipedia is not a bureacracy, I cannot see how this doing the impossible can be part of the criteria. Since the I believe the other admin to be quite experienced and apparently reasonably confident of their position, rather than just ignoring that, informing the user in question and deleting the image in question in 48 hours time (assuming no further information is revealed in that time), I though yI'd ask for some broader input here. Am I missing the point here, do we indeed demand the impossible in such situations, are there other images which fail out fairuse criteria/are incorrectly tagged which are having CSD tags removed for this? -- pgk 19:45, 8 November 2006 (UTC)
Why is Wikipedia:Speedy deletions a separate page? --- RockMFR 19:07, 11 November 2006 (UTC)
I just don't understand why it is separated from this one - for most users browsing through the deletion-related pages, they will rarely come across Wikipedia:Speedy deletions - they will usually end up here. It seems counter-intuitive to have these pages split up. --- RockMFR 07:48, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
At what point can we delete the hangon tag so an article can be speedy-deleted, because it is obviously a personal biography page of someone who is not notible? Check this page for an example of what I'm talking about. Thanks. JE.at.UWO U| T 06:41, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I felt it was time to give the DB-templates a much-needed update. I have a version at User:TrackerTV/KXRM3. The new template can be hid and unhid, to help preserve space. The reason and first sentence of the old one are in the top, which is colored safety orange to attract attention. It takes up less room than the db-meta (at top, substed). Please tell me what you think! TTV ( MyTV| PolygonZ| Green Valley) 18:55, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
Articles about living persons that cite no sources, cite non-existent sources, or that cite only self-published and/or notoriously unreliable sources, may be speedily deleted. It is not necessary under this criterion for the article to be defamatory. Robert A.West ( Talk) 02:37, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Well, thank you for your comments. I can identify a lead balloon when one falls on my head. Robert A.West ( Talk) 04:30, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
All we need is a rule saying 'if Wikipedia policy allows enough of a page's content to be deleted on sight that the rest of the page is a CSD, that can be deleted too, unless there is a version in the history that can be reverted to'. This is just common sense (and IMO IAR-able if it isn't implied by some policy somewhere), and would lead to 'if an entire article is a BLP violation, it can be deleted if there is no clean version in the history'. I don't see an immediate need to delete unsourced BLPs if they don't say anything potentially libelous or negative. Although I think it would be an improvement if any page without sources could be speedied (pages can't be WP:AFC'd without sources, and what makes username contributors more reliable than anons?), I suspect consensus would be strongly against this. -- ais523 14:09, 13 November 2006 ( U T C)
Hmm, unfortunate timing, and it's funny when presented here people missed the value and focused on possible negatives, whereas when presented at User:Dmcdevit/CSD addition the advantages were obvious. Thanks for the heads up Radiant. The only difference being the topic doesn't matter. It's hard to overestimate how valuable this will be in turning the tide towards properly sourcing articles. I just don't buy the arguments that it is newbie biting, we need to explain our policies to newbies all the time. This simply involves no longer looking the other way when articles fail to meet our key content policies. We are well past the time where we need just any content, we need reliable, sourced material. The issue of what meets a RS is also completely avoided by saying there isn't any discretion on that point. If there is a source, it doesn't meet the new CSD. - Taxman Talk 14:49, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
What this new CSD does is come at it from both sides. — It is worth noting at this point that it has always been possible to delete unverifiable articles via AFD, we have had tags such as {{ unreferenced}} for a long time, and it has always been possible to "come at this from both sides". Uncle G 11:19, 14 November 2006 (UTC)It is unfair to make later editors dig for sources, particularly when the initial content is questionable. Those who write articles likely to be deemed in need of fact checking, for whatever reason, should expect to assist by providing references, ideally when the article is first written.
A9. Any article that was created after 12:36, Sunday, June 30, 2024 ( UTC) insert date criterion gains consensus, has and has never had any references, and has been tagged with {{ some tag}} for over 14 days, may be deleted without a discussion.
I've phrased it as a CSD here, but am open to other suggestions. This is a new section because it's no longer restricted to BLPs but applies to anything. Presumably this would use a big angry template that is places on the top of the article, with a corresponding User talk: warning template, saying something like "This article will be deleted unless sources are provided." (with more information below). As I said in the previous section, anons have to provide sources; why not users with usernames? -- ais523 18:01, 13 November 2006 ( U T C)
This process moves the burden of proof back where it belongs. We can't prove a negative, but we can demand a positive. If Verifiability is a non-negotiable requirement, then writing an article that completely lacks sources is an assertion that sources are obvious and easy to find. If we can't find an arguably reliable source in two weeks, it isn't easy. If sources are neither provided nor obvious, there is nothing to discuss, so an AFD is a waste of time and effort.
Now, maybe this process should be DFV (delete for verifiability) or some other name. The only keep vote that matters is a halfway-decent source for enough of the article that we would have at least a decent stub left if the article were reduced to the verifiable content. Once that threshold is reached, the case is closed.
If time runs out, we can always undelete if someone finds an actual source later. If no Wikipedian cares enough about the topic to research and fix it, the topic can't be that important. Robert A.West ( Talk) 20:07, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
And you should note that equally all too often at AFD we get editors who say "Delete. This article doesn't cite any sources.". That's an equally bad argument in the opposite direction. An article is only deletable for being unverifiable if both it cites no sources and no sources can be found when editors make reasonable efforts to find some themselves. Merely arguing that an article is unverifiable without putting in the effort to do the research and check that no sources can be found does not cut the mustard, also.
Expanding CSD criteria is not the way to educate editors into not making either of those bad arguments at AFD. Uncle G 11:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
An article, A is created without references by editor X, a specialist who understands the field and knows the sources. It is noticed after a few months by editor Y, who has an interest in the area, looks for references, but can't find any. He puts it up for AFD. Editor Z comes along and thinks the article is a great piece of prose, if only it had references, but has no clue where to look for them, or perhaps no time.
Who should have the burden of finding the references? X could have added them trivially, but may not be watching the article -- may have left Wikipedia. Y tried his best and has given up. Z wants the article kept.
In my mind, X was in the best position to help Wikipedia and failed. He overlooked, or did not understand, "Encyclopedic content must be verifiable." Y has tried to help Wikipedia, yet it seems that many editors want him to work harder and find references that he cannot know for certain exist. Z has done very little to help Wikipedia, but many editors feel that he has no responsibility.
Who should have the burden, and how should it be enforced? Robert A.West ( Talk) 21:29, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
In fact, in terms of time, the opposite would be a more appropriate speedy deletion criteria: If no one has added any sources on an article for two years, that indicates a lot more about the encyclopedic quality of the subject than no sources added for two weeks. New articles warrant time to be improved; old articles with no sources and no one interested in editing them warrant a more relaxed view of A7, but nothing so strict as "any article after 14 days". I say again, however, verifiable does not mean cited; people are free to add information to Wikipedia without being required to re-read all the many books they have read on a subject, or tweak citations. A policy requiring citation would turn off the experts who actually know about a subject, and would attract only the people who are in the process of learning a subject, out of a single book which they have in front of them. — Centrx→ talk • 21:56, 13 November 2006 (UTC)
Now, we do need to clean house of junk, but it's probably best to start with the oldest junk articles that have never been improved than the newest articles that may actually become good articles. Most of the articles on Wikipedia today would have been deleted under this proposal. Although, looking at New pages, it may be best to just forget about new CSDs and prohibit new page creation altogether, except perhaps by accounts 3 months old or something. I just clicked on about 20 articles in new pages and only 2 should probably be on Wikipedia, both happen to have been added by users since 2005. If the problem is new junk being created—and there is a lot of junk—the solution is not to delete 90% of it (and it will be that high with the CSD proposed here), but to limit article creation; most legitimate articles are already created, and any new ones can be added through WP:AFC or by less recently registered users. — Centrx→ talk • 03:51, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
By publishing changes, you agree to the Terms of Use, and you irrevocably agree to release your contribution under the CC BY-SA 4.0 License and the GFDL. You agree that a hyperlink or URL is sufficient attribution under the Creative Commons license.
'; perhaps say 'Encyclopedic content must be verifiable and provide sources'). To do that, however, we need a deletion criterion in place (speedy, manadatory AfD closure, DfV, or whatever). To Centrx: The point of a CSD is not to get rid of every bad article, just to filter some obviously bad ones to save time and effort (although I'm sure you already new that), and the reason about 90% of new pages violate the new rule is that the rule doesn't exist (so there isn't any point in complying with it). To Rossami: most experts will be able to cite the facts they add trivially, because if they're well-known information in the field they'll be in the standard reference books. Academic experts will already be used to doing this when writing papers. -- ais523 09:00, 14 November 2006 ( U T C)
This concept has been mentioned quite a bit in recent discussions on this page. Here's a a specific policy proposal with explanatory text. This is the result of considerable thought toward all the views expressed, and it has already generated quite a bit of positive feedback on the talk page (when it was in my userspace). Please take a look at it and see what you think. We hope it can become an official CSD sometime in the future. Dmcdevit· t 08:49, 14 November 2006 (UTC)
Does the length of an article have any effect on whether it is speedy-able or not?- K37 08:51, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Criterion G8 has been causing confusion, because it states talk pages should not be deleted "if they contain deletion discussion that isn't logged elsewhere". This exception clause is several years old and stems from the time when deletion was debated on an article talk page, instead of on AFD as we do now. Hence, it is no longer relevant to make this exception, and I think it should be removed since people are using it as a bureaucratic argument to argue for keeping post-deletion arguments ("why is tihs paeg deleted????2??"). ( Radiant) 10:12, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
I don't know if it is of any relevance or not to this discussion, but I thought I'd stop by and mention the category and template I created for using talk pages to request articles: Category:Wikipedia articles requested through talk page creation and {{ User:BigNate37/TM/Future article talk page}}. It is, at least somewhat, relevant to CSD G8. BigNate37 (T) 18:46, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Anyone want to save me a trip in the archives and explain the rationale behind G5? Is there a reason we should be deleting otherwise good contributions from banned users? Is it a GFDL issue or something else? -- badlydrawnjeff talk 19:25, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
Though in cases where someone is gaming the system, G5 can disrupt things quite badly when this is not realised until later. An example is when a discussion is started that looks OK, and then a few hours, days, weeks, later, the initiator of the discussion (say, a proposed policy) is exposed as a sockpuppet. G5 deletion can then disrupt good-faith discussion of the proposal, and a dispute can break out over whether to calmly finish the discussion with the new information (that the person who started it was a banned user), or to hysterically scream "we've been trolled" and delete everything. The latter behaviour seems, to me, to play into the hands of the trolls, who probably get a kick out of seeing other people's commeents deleted along with theirs. Which brings me to another point - I've never been clear at what point you can assess whether a troll is a "major" author of a page, or whether it is even productive to try this. Deletion of only the troll's edits I can understand, but not other people's edits as well. And policy pages and article pages edits yes, but don't disrupt talk page discussion by deleting the trolling edits. Just add a template, or something. Carcharoth 23:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Can there be a policy that we can speedy delete dictionary articles? A db template is desperately needed on these "dictionary" articles. Diez2 19:41, 17 November 2006 (UTC)
This came up at the administrator's noticeboard, and while one person said we don't need any criterion because it's common sense, another noted the differences between what would be considered child pornography in other nations. Since the servers are located in Florida, we must base our regulations on that, and, while I'm fairly certain we all agree that child pornography is vile, we can't expect anyone who ever comes here to know exactly what constitutes it in terms of age. Thus, what I hope would be uncontroversial, to be added as I9:
Hopefully this is a no-brainer, and hopefully we can be mature enough as a community to understand the difference between child pornography and, say, questionable images from a studio film (see Child Bride for an example of something that shouldn't fall under this criteria, but would obviously be a bit controversial). -- badlydrawnjeff talk 14:44, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
Because illegal material is not permitted (AFAIK) nor is it needed in writing an encyclopedia, and because we don't get much if any child pornography, this would be unnecessary instruction creep. It does two things: belittles other rarely occuring but seriously illegal content (i.e. see Official Secrets) and it suggests to people that we have a child porn problem. Copyright violations are illegal and would be instruction creep, but those do come up and we do often have copyright problems. BigNate37 (T) 22:15, 19 November 2006 (UTC)
A special category of speedy delete will act as a stimulus to a certain kind of vandal. I agree that too much instruction creep can be counter-productive. Just use a general {{delete|Brief reason}} tag. If the image is clearly a violation, it will speedily get deleted. Hu 01:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
I agree that allegedly illegal material should not be resolved via a deletion debate but it also shouldn't be dealt with via this process. Illegal material should be dealt with via WP:OFFICE and the Foundation's counsel. We are not lawyers and should not be trying to make that determination of fact. We can delete because it's inappropriate, editorially unnecessary, etc. but we shouldn't be trying to decide that something is illegal in any one jurisdiction - US or otherwise. Rossami (talk) 01:55, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
No no no, this is a terrible idea. We don't need rules creep, especially ridiculous rules creep like this. We all know that child porn can be deleted on sight; we don't need it encoded into a rule. Doing so just makes us look extremely bad. Others will point to us and say, "They have such a child pornography problem that they need a rule to be able to delete it." -- Cyde Weys 04:24, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Doesn't child porn already fall under CSD G3 (vandalism)? Jesse Viviano 17:19, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Hey guys, this issue was argued to death for 2 years straight on the lolicon article. It's one of Wikipedia's more legendary debates actually. The outcome of that debate was no consensus. It's too much of a gray area. Consider for example, Image:BlindFaithBlindFaith.jpg or Image:Virgin_Killer.jpg, or the previously mentioned Image:Childbride.jpeg. This has to be decided on a case-by-case basis. Obviously, blatant child porn is going to be deleted on sight. Having a policy about it, however, is only going to reignite old flame wars and won't accomplish anything productive, IMO. Kaldari 02:33, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
I feel like I being daft here but aren't G12 and I6 contradictory? G12 says you can immediately delete any image which has no fair use claim. I6 says you can delete any image which has no fair use claim "seven days after it was uploaded" and are in CAT:NR... It seems like G12 has rendered I6 useless, hasn't it? Maybe I7 and I4 as well - they both require a waiting period while G12 doesn't. CAT:CSD is getting flooded with images recently with everyone rushing to G12. — Wknight94 ( talk) 19:07, 22 November 2006 (UTC)
Section title says it all. There's no reason to make an article about a 7th grader's VB project undergo an AFD discussion just because the prod was contested. Simões ( talk/ contribs) 03:36, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Here are the software AfD results for the month of October:
All these nominations were for allegedly failing notability criteria. I count 71 deletes, 11 keeps, 6 no consensuses, and 3 nominations withdrawn for a total of 91 nominations. Simões ( talk/ contribs) 21:46, 23 November 2006 (UTC)
Unremarkable people, groups, companies and web content. An article about a real person, group of people, band, club, company, or web content that does not assert the importance or significance of its subject. If the assertion is controversial or there has been a previous AfD, the article should be nominated for AfD instead. Note: Avoid the word "vanity" in deletion summaries since it may be considered insulting.
Okay, Badlydrawnjeff's intransigent inclusionism aside, are there any reasons why the item shouldn't be added? If not, I think we should go ahead and take it to a vote to see there is sufficient consensus to add "software" (or some variant wording thereof) to CSD A7. Simões ( talk/ contribs) 19:50, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
Scanning the sample above, it looks like 1-2 per day. That's not a tremendous burden on the current discussion-based system. If the rates in the sample above stay true, I'd say that a new speedy-deletion criterion (or expansion of the existing criterion) is not yet necessary. Instruction creep is to be avoided whenever possible. Rossami (talk) 21:23, 24 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm sympathetic to some of the concerns given above, especially avoiding instruction creep. My main motivation for wanting to see this added to the A7 criteria is an appeal to the virtue of consistency: If John Q. Programmer writes an article on himself and his gem of a software project (call it John's Amazing Browser Plugin), it is absurd that John's autobiography will get uncontroversially speedied, but the article on his plugin requires discussion prior to deletion. Instruction creep is somewhat avoidable by merging criteria (in this case, finding a term that captures both "web content" and "software"). As for those who are opposed to A7 (or speedy deletion) in general, I find it problematic that these voices only pop up in discussions having nothing to do with the merits or lack of merits of A7 (or speedy deletion) as such. It seems akin to thread hijacking. Simões ( talk/ contribs) 19:14, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Talk pages of articles that do not exist can sometimes be useful. For example, I attempted to start a discussion about redirecting at Talk:Science fact before I redirected it, and have stated at Talk:James Provan that it should be reserved for the Parliament member. -- Gray Porpo ise 21:57, 26 November 2006 (UTC)
Does anyone object if I add explicitly the text "This criteria does not apply to redirects in other languages (such as Japanese and Chinese, or any redirect in the category Redirects from alternative languages)." to criteria R3? I've seen at least one user whose edits mostly consisted of tagging Korean-language redirects as {{ db-r3}}; some were actually deleted. The advantage of foreign-language redirects is that they increase our articles' Google-ability and benefit those who know the subject only by the foreign language name. Kimchi. sg 14:59, 27 November 2006 (UTC)
Why are talk pages of images on commons exceptions to G8? If the image is on commons, the discussion should be on commons, no? I asked about this on the administrator's noticeboard a while back (before I noticed that was listed as an exception here) and the one person who replied agreed they should be deleted unless it questions the licencing of the image. I think all useful content should be merged to the commons talk page and then they should be deleted from the Wikipedia space. VegaDark 05:03, 28 November 2006 (UTC)
Under non criteria, one listed is "Non-notable subjects with their importance asserted". What happens if someone makes an assertion of notability, but it's totally fraudulent (Not even "...was the President of the United States", but something that's easily proven totally false by a legit source. If that is the only thing holding it back from being CSD, does proving it false provide a legit reason to CSD it? 68.39.174.238 03:57, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
CSD it? 68.39.174.238 03:57, 29 November 2006 (UTC)
A common deletion criteria on RfD is redirects from the mainspace to the Wikipedia: namespace. Would anyone object to the adding of adding the criteria R4 - Redirects from the Main Space to another namespace that do not serve an inherently encyclopedic purpose. ^ demon [omg plz] 01:31, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Cross-namespace redirects are nearly always deleted on RfD anyway (the same arguments come up in just about every debate, and they seem to be 'delete' on balance). The major exception (not counting the WP: pseudonamespace), which should be an explicit exception in the CSD, is Transwiki; there's some sort of policy on Meta that this should be a redirect to the transwiki log on every Wikimedia Foundation wiki as far as I remember. -- ais523 09:13, 30 November 2006 ( U T C)
In response to EVula: That already exists in the form of CSD R2. How about a rephrase: Redirects from the Main Space to another namespace that do not serve an inherently encyclopedic purpose, with the exception of shortcuts, such as WP, WT, P, C, etc. ^ demon [omg plz] 21:00, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
Namespaces exist for a reason, all the namespaces have, or can have abbreviations, like WP or CAT. HighInBC (Need help? Ask me) 22:45, 30 November 2006 (UTC)
There's a related discussion at
Wikipedia talk:Redirect#Cross-namespace redirects. Apparently the page was changed to say that cross-namespace redirects should only be deleted if they could conflict with an encyclopedia article name. Per Improv and others, that seems like a pretty large change in how they're handled. --
Interiot
02:57, 3 December 2006 (UTC)