This page has been blanked as a courtesy. For the decision, click here; the talkpage comments can be found in the page history. |
Initiated by Mathsci ( talk) 19:31, 17 May 2012 (UTC) 'Amendment enacted on 26 May 2012.
"Mathsci has engaged in borderline personal attacks and frequent battleground conduct in respect of editors he perceives as ideological opponents."
to be amended to:
"Mathsci has engaged in borderline personal attacks and battleground conduct towards editors whom he perceives as being engaged in proxy editing"
(or any minor variant containing the phrase "proxy editing").
This proposal is a minor change, resulting from a very late change in the emphasis of the R&I review. Tabling a request for amendment of this kind was suggested to me by the drafting arbitrator, Roger Davies. Although my intention is to stay away from matters connected with WP:ARBR&I, this rewording would prevent any possible misunderstandings concerning any possible future reports of sockpuppets (or, in circumstances which I think now would be very rare, proxy-editing). At the time the case closed, this FoF did not look likely to pass. I had already recorded my uneasiness with use of the wording "perceived ideological opponents" a while back. The new findings on proxy editing changed in a radical way the emphasis of the case and my actions or reactions under consideration in this review should probably be considered within that context. The proposed rephrasing accurately reflects what happened since December 2010 and takes into account the views expressed in the three oppose votes (I note that Newyorkbrad has not been available for comment on wikipedia for some time now).
In slightly more detail: On 6 May 2012, while I was occupied in professional matters in the USA (which continued until my return to France on 12 May 2012), the thrust of this review changed radically: new findings and remedies were added supporting a long-standing charge of proxy-editing, which Shell Kinney had suggested from long back. Aside from my evidence in this review based on on-wiki conduct in October-November 2010, on 26 November 2010 and 30 November 2010 I passed on evidence in private to Shell Kinney which unequivocally confirmed SightWatcher and TrevelyanL85A2 as proxy-editors. With my permission, she passed that evidence on to arbcom. Having contacted Captain Occam, she later commented on this proxy-editing on wikipedia, as reported in my evidence. Almost 18 months later, following further edits in the topic area by SightWatcher and TrevelyanL85A2, arbcom once again examined this so-far unresolved issue. They confirmed Shell Kinney's conclusions, but this time, instead of contacting Captain Occam, they conferred directly with Ferahgo the Assassin. She supplied relevant off-wiki information. These new developments fundamentally changed the direction of this case, in line with the evidence I had presented. That in turn forcably affected the previously posted findings and remedies. As I have written to Roger Davies in private, this is a grey area. There are few precedents and my own unwillingness to let the matter drop, knowing about the unambiguous off-wiki evidence, could be taken as either a vice or a virtue. That is reflected in the modified statement above. In the end I acknowledge my persistance here. I also very much appreciate that arbitrators came round to this particularly tough decision in what were very difficult circumstances—very much untrodden ground. Their decision provides a useful precedent and hopefully also a guide for the future. Mathsci ( talk) 19:31, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
@ Roger Davies: That change would also be OK, although, as others have written, it still omits the context. At this stage I hope that the opinions of those arbitrators active on the review that opposed the finding, particularly Newyorkbrad, can be heard, even if that means waiting one month.
@ Jclemens: The identification of SightWatcher and TrevelyanL85A2 was not guess work. It was confirmed by Shell Kinney and all the on-wiki and off-wiki evidence passed on to the arbitration committee. It was not very different from what arbcom has looked at second time round with their off-wiki investigations. Shell Kinney described the first round findings on wikipedia in December 2010. (She already said some time back that her correspondence with me could be passed on to the arbitration committee: arbitrators will have already seen an excerpt from an email from September 2011.) Shell Kinney thanked me several times for my help in working out what was going on and she had no doubts about the identification. At no stage did she make any suggestion that my help might be motivated by some kind of ideological differences. Is Jclemens sugesting that now? The two people who have made outspoken statements of that nature, on-wiki and even more vociferously off-wiki, have been Occam and Ferahgo. [1] [2] In the last diff Occam refers to "the root problem of Mathsci’s behavior towards everyone he hates" and wrote that "Mathsci is always going to be up someone’s ass". My editing history does not show any ideological stance. It shows that I approach proxy-editing no differently from sockpuppetry. It just happens to involve more people and be several orders of magnitude harder to fathom. Many times it relies on on-wiki mistakes. Neither type of editing is permitted on wikipedia. I hope that as Shell Kinney did, arbitrators will use that as their frame of reference. Proxy-editing is almost invariably reported in private. My email correspondece with Shell Kinney started in mid-October 2010 when I pointed out to her to the anomolous editing of SightWathcer and Woodsrock and suggested possible sockpuppetry. Shell Kinney had already independently run a checkuser on the two accounts, so had already ruled out sockpuppetry at an early stage. SightWatcher was identified a month later because of logged-off edits from Houston, Texas, and because he added the same information on films to his WP user page, his DeviantArt page and his amazon.com review page. Very recently he has started using his WP username elsewhere. TrevelyanL85A2 has written his real life name and AIM account on his wikipedia userpage. This mess was created by Occam and Ferahgo. I noticed it and reported it. No different from noticing and reporting the sockpuppetry of Mikemikev. If arbitrators want to use language that is neutral, they should take a refresher course in User:Newyorkbrad/Bradspeak. I don't think it is reasonable of Jclemens to make any comparisons between me and the DeviantArt tag team. They have indicated their own ideology, but I have said nothing either on-wiki or off-wiki. These are users who have been involved in a calculated act of deception. I have been involved in no such acts, either on-wiki or off-wiki, so please WP:AGF. Yes, I dispprove of their acts of deception, continuing even now through SightWatcher (see below). Many thanks, Mathsci ( talk) 09:00, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Re DeviantArt team: I am not sure any good faith can be directed towards SightWatcher. after months of silence he has now miraculously found his tongue and become the spokesperson on wikipedia for two site-banned users. If he persists in proxy-editing like this, employing the same loopholes and wikilawyering as Ferahgo and Occam to circumvent his topic ban, then probably the site-bans of Occam and Ferahgo should be extended coterminously to him. At no stage, in particular below, has he accepted any responsibility for his own role in this calculated long-term act of deception, which has wasted hours and hours of time.
SightWatcher's comments seem confused but seem to be his first public admission to arbitrators that he was involved in the off-wiki attack pages and fake account for Mathsci and Muntuwandi on FurAffinity. The fake account for me was registered on 26 November 2010, but unused until 1 April 2011. By a strange coincidence, his DeviantArt identity was discovered by me on exactly the same day and emailed to Shell Kinney. She graciously thanked me for that information and, having asked my permission, forwarded that message on to the arbitration committee. The event SightWatcher is referring to is the off-wiki joke/attack page on FurAffinity on 1 April 2011. He seems to be identifying himself as one of the perpetrators, unless I have misunderstood what he wrote. SightWatcher has evidently been in contact with Ferahgo, otherwise he would not know the about content of the single wikipedia email I sent her in May 2011. Is there any other vaguely plausible explanation? After all, according to SightWatcher's version of events, he only became aware of the discussions of his own proxy-editing very recently. That version of events is not credible at this juncture. My on-wiki evidence shows collusion with Ferahgo and Occam, that cannot be explained otherwise. Off-wiki evidence provided to Shell Kinney in November contradicts SightWatcher's version of events. His account adopts the same tone as Ferahgo's statements on-wiki and also in the small amount of private "evidence" that I was shown at an extremely late stage. The names of SightWatcher and TrevelyanL85A2 have been mentioned in AE requests (January), requests for amendment (January-March) and on the evidence page of the review (since 25 March). Knowing that the arbitration committee is aware of his friendship with Ferahgo, does SightWatcher think it is reasonable to expect arbitrators to believe that he was unaware that his editing was being discussed? A more likely explanation is that Ferahgo preferred to be the sole spokesperson for the DeviantArt crowd while she still could, to maintain consistency. With SightWatcher's comments here, there is no longer any consistency. Mathsci ( talk) 07:04, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Sir Fozzie was inactive during the case and. from what I can tell. he has not been following it. I understand that he has not been in the best of health and I sincerely hope that he is on his way to a full recovery. In the circumstances, however, it is not clear why he is commenting here.
Please could arbitrators wait for comments from arbitrators who have been active during the case, like Newyorkbrad. Knowing wikipedia, that will probably not happen overnight. During the review, as Roger Davies has explained, Ferahgo the Assassin was granted a large amount of latitude in presenting her case—far more than is usual given the circumstances. In the end it was not justified by the outcome. I saw only tiny snippets of her "evidence" and at a very late stage. For that reason, there seems to be no need to rush to a decision particularly before established arbitrators active on the case have had a chance to respond. Mathsci ( talk) 17:07, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
The last case WP:ARBR&I has come and gone. Vecrumba started editing R&I during that case, so any discussion ended with the close of that case on 25 August 2010. If Vecrumba wants to re-submit evidence that he already presented during that case, he is two years too late. His friends Occam and Ferahgo proxy edited through at least three known accounts (SightWatcher, TrevelyanL85A2 and Boothello) and that seems not to have registered with him. Given the campaign of off-wiki coordination in WP:ARBR&I that has been finally acknowledged by the review coupled with Vecrumba's own prior involvement in other off-wiki coordination, the timing of his comments here is quite unfortunate in the circumstances. Whether prompted or not, Vecrumba's edits are hyperbolic drama-creating rhetoric after the review has closed and proxy editing has already been identified by evidence gathered by the arbitration commitee themselves. If he now has gripes about that, WP:VPN or WP:ACN are thataway. Mathsci ( talk) 07:44, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Since this request mentions me by name, I hope it's okay that I comment.
I've just noticed I'm topic banned now, and I don't understand why. I understand what the accusation is, what lead to it, and how it might be considered questionable, but directly I fail to see how I acted improperly. The arbitrators are right that I got involved in R&I articles because of a discussion in Ferahgo's blog, but she didn't ask me to. Silktork said here [13] that there's nothing wrong with getting involved in Wikipedia because of a discussion somewhere else. I don't care about R&I anymore and haven't for several months, but as a matter of principles I believe that I shouldn't be punished if I didn't do anything wrong.
Has anyone here even considered that I didn't want my friends and family to know I was editing R&I articles? I didn't want Ferahgo to know who I was, and I picked a name she wouldn't recognize. But when Mathsci figured out my off-wiki identity, he emailed Ferahgo about it right away! I stopped editing the articles after Ferahgo got suspicious about who I was and because I couldn't deal with the stresses of dealing with such a heated argument. But for more than a year after that, Mathsci kept talking about my off-wiki identity, without any thought about how it affects her friendship with me.
It's bad enough that nobody thought I wouldn't want my friends and family to know I was involved here. But calling what I did "proxy editing" is just a terribly false accusation. Proxy editing would be if Ferahgo asked me to get involved and told me what to post. I chose to get involved, and all posts I made I did by my own choice. Mathsci it would seem can't tell the difference between proxy editing and what actually happened. I will not sit down and allow my integrity to be put under attack simply because of who I choose as my friends.- SightWatcher ( talk) 03:15, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Not again!!
SightWatcher was topic banned by arbcom, not by Mathsci. It is worth noting that SightWatcher's re-entry to the conflict piggy-backs Mathsci's seeking to reword his own sanction, and that SightWatcher framed his response as seeking remedy how to deal with "Matschi's continued battleground behavior". Here Mathsci's simply citing the arbcom findings to back his argument how his sanction should be worded. While SightWatcher's response seeks a return to Day One: "Make Mathsci keep his nose out of it and allow me and/or my proxy-of-the-week to return to R/I". This solution made little sense in the first arbcom go-round, and makes demonstrably less sense now.
If SightWatcher wishes to Amend his sanction, I believe it warrants a separate filing. But I think it's best for everybody involved (especially SightWatcher) to just move on. Professor marginalia ( talk) 07:52, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
Why is the committee turning a blind eye to Mathsci's continued battleground behavior? He's just added over 2,000 words of text attacking other editors, including some of the arbitrators who aren't giving him what he wanted. After the review closed, he only stopped for long enough to make 3 inconsequential article edits before launching into this. It's abundantly clear that being admonished for his battleground behavior is causing more battleground behavior from him, not less of it.
This isn't only a nuisance, it also disrupts the functioning of the project. It means none of the editors he regards as adversaries can ever make a request related to R&I without the discussion being bogged down by Mathsci's walls of text. It means I can never appeal my topic ban unless I want to endure this again, and neither can anyone else. If you want to restore normalcy to the topic, or if you want to reduce the amount of drama plaguing every discussion about it, the problem is staring you right in the face. Boothello ( talk) 02:43, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
If Mathsci's continued battleground behavior can't be addressed in this thread for procedural reasons, I'd like to request that another case or review be opened. If that also can't be done in this thread, I can make a separate arbitration request for it. Two factors have led this:
A: It's become increasingly clear since the review closed that arbcom's admonishment is not changing Mathsci's battleground behavior.
B: It's also clear this issue can't be handled by the community. If it could, it would have been addressed in any of the 20 or so AN/I reports about Mathsci since 2008 (not all of which involve race and intelligence).
I should point out that the whole time I've been registered at Wikipedia, Mathsci's battleground behavior towards me has made my involvement so frustrating, I no longer have any interest in staying part of the project if the problem isn't addressed. This is why I'm semi-retired now. So I'm not afraid of my own behavior being examined in a review. The best-case scenario is that the situation improves, while the worst-case scenario is that I have to leave the project, which is what I'd be doing anyway if the problem can't be resolved. Boothello ( talk) 22:54, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
I can only highlight Boothello's statement above: "the whole time I've been registered at Wikipedia, Mathsci's battleground behavior towards me has made my involvement so frustrating". That a topic banned proxy editor finds enforcement "frustrating" is a good thing, and is evidence that wikipedia process is active. Suggesting that this frustration is due to the battleground activity of Mathsci and not the product of biased proxy editing is just another example of disruptive behavior. The idea that proxy editors (like Boothelo) are not the primary cause of disruption is ludicrous. Per the requested amendment, I support removing the word "ideological" from the sanction. Pursuing enforcement against proxy editors is not an ideological position. aprock ( talk) 15:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
When I first arrived at R&I, Mathsci assaulted me for no reason whatsoever. I can dig up the diffs. I see no reason to limit Mathsci's combativeness as applying only to perceived proxy accounts. Every editor Mathsci doesn't agree with is a proxy for some enemy editor. Just watching from the sidelines, I'm exhausted by Mathsci's endless conspiracy theories and attempts to turn R&I into a Mathsci police state. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 04:15, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Mathsci asks to amend decision that he "has engaged in borderline personal attacks and frequent battleground conduct", but unfortunately his amendment request has became just that. This reminds me famous Brer Rabbit. Everyone, do not do it please. My very best wishes ( talk) 15:27, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Initiated by Mathsci ( talk) at 04:42, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
In the review, harassment was mentioned explicitly in the first question, "Has Mathsci been harassed by socks?", which was answered comprehensively, but there was no finding. That has led to a number of anomalies. A change was proposed to remedy 1.1 in a previous request for amendment, specifying exactly the context of the battleground behaviour. That change was not adopted at the time. Subsequently the finding and remedy have been misused to imply that the harassment or wikhounding is somehow my own fault and that I deserve it. The changes in phrasing show a recognition of the wikihounding and harassment that was part of the focus of the original review. By more careful phrasing it avoids the problems caused by the misuse of the findings and remedy in dealing with harassment and wikihounding by banned editors, including most recently the first identified sockpuppet, Zeromus1 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), of the site-banned editors Captain Occam and Ferahgo the Assassin. Until the outcome of the review is amended in this way—in particular removing the implication that my reporting of sockpuppet accounts of Echigo mole is undue—I cannot edit wikipedia (its failure to value or protect academic contributors is disappointing). This request for amendment was precipitated by a portion of the arbitration committee attempting to impose sanctions on me without evidence of misconduct. It was an attempt to control harassment caused by banned editors by sanctioning their victims. It was enacted while I was known to be very ill and, by being passed on a whim without evidence, has unwittingly created a precedent which could cause future problems, in particular for administrators helping out on WP:AE. [14]
{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}
This page has been blanked as a courtesy. For the decision, click here; the talkpage comments can be found in the page history. |
Initiated by Mathsci ( talk) 19:31, 17 May 2012 (UTC) 'Amendment enacted on 26 May 2012.
"Mathsci has engaged in borderline personal attacks and frequent battleground conduct in respect of editors he perceives as ideological opponents."
to be amended to:
"Mathsci has engaged in borderline personal attacks and battleground conduct towards editors whom he perceives as being engaged in proxy editing"
(or any minor variant containing the phrase "proxy editing").
This proposal is a minor change, resulting from a very late change in the emphasis of the R&I review. Tabling a request for amendment of this kind was suggested to me by the drafting arbitrator, Roger Davies. Although my intention is to stay away from matters connected with WP:ARBR&I, this rewording would prevent any possible misunderstandings concerning any possible future reports of sockpuppets (or, in circumstances which I think now would be very rare, proxy-editing). At the time the case closed, this FoF did not look likely to pass. I had already recorded my uneasiness with use of the wording "perceived ideological opponents" a while back. The new findings on proxy editing changed in a radical way the emphasis of the case and my actions or reactions under consideration in this review should probably be considered within that context. The proposed rephrasing accurately reflects what happened since December 2010 and takes into account the views expressed in the three oppose votes (I note that Newyorkbrad has not been available for comment on wikipedia for some time now).
In slightly more detail: On 6 May 2012, while I was occupied in professional matters in the USA (which continued until my return to France on 12 May 2012), the thrust of this review changed radically: new findings and remedies were added supporting a long-standing charge of proxy-editing, which Shell Kinney had suggested from long back. Aside from my evidence in this review based on on-wiki conduct in October-November 2010, on 26 November 2010 and 30 November 2010 I passed on evidence in private to Shell Kinney which unequivocally confirmed SightWatcher and TrevelyanL85A2 as proxy-editors. With my permission, she passed that evidence on to arbcom. Having contacted Captain Occam, she later commented on this proxy-editing on wikipedia, as reported in my evidence. Almost 18 months later, following further edits in the topic area by SightWatcher and TrevelyanL85A2, arbcom once again examined this so-far unresolved issue. They confirmed Shell Kinney's conclusions, but this time, instead of contacting Captain Occam, they conferred directly with Ferahgo the Assassin. She supplied relevant off-wiki information. These new developments fundamentally changed the direction of this case, in line with the evidence I had presented. That in turn forcably affected the previously posted findings and remedies. As I have written to Roger Davies in private, this is a grey area. There are few precedents and my own unwillingness to let the matter drop, knowing about the unambiguous off-wiki evidence, could be taken as either a vice or a virtue. That is reflected in the modified statement above. In the end I acknowledge my persistance here. I also very much appreciate that arbitrators came round to this particularly tough decision in what were very difficult circumstances—very much untrodden ground. Their decision provides a useful precedent and hopefully also a guide for the future. Mathsci ( talk) 19:31, 17 May 2012 (UTC)
@ Roger Davies: That change would also be OK, although, as others have written, it still omits the context. At this stage I hope that the opinions of those arbitrators active on the review that opposed the finding, particularly Newyorkbrad, can be heard, even if that means waiting one month.
@ Jclemens: The identification of SightWatcher and TrevelyanL85A2 was not guess work. It was confirmed by Shell Kinney and all the on-wiki and off-wiki evidence passed on to the arbitration committee. It was not very different from what arbcom has looked at second time round with their off-wiki investigations. Shell Kinney described the first round findings on wikipedia in December 2010. (She already said some time back that her correspondence with me could be passed on to the arbitration committee: arbitrators will have already seen an excerpt from an email from September 2011.) Shell Kinney thanked me several times for my help in working out what was going on and she had no doubts about the identification. At no stage did she make any suggestion that my help might be motivated by some kind of ideological differences. Is Jclemens sugesting that now? The two people who have made outspoken statements of that nature, on-wiki and even more vociferously off-wiki, have been Occam and Ferahgo. [1] [2] In the last diff Occam refers to "the root problem of Mathsci’s behavior towards everyone he hates" and wrote that "Mathsci is always going to be up someone’s ass". My editing history does not show any ideological stance. It shows that I approach proxy-editing no differently from sockpuppetry. It just happens to involve more people and be several orders of magnitude harder to fathom. Many times it relies on on-wiki mistakes. Neither type of editing is permitted on wikipedia. I hope that as Shell Kinney did, arbitrators will use that as their frame of reference. Proxy-editing is almost invariably reported in private. My email correspondece with Shell Kinney started in mid-October 2010 when I pointed out to her to the anomolous editing of SightWathcer and Woodsrock and suggested possible sockpuppetry. Shell Kinney had already independently run a checkuser on the two accounts, so had already ruled out sockpuppetry at an early stage. SightWatcher was identified a month later because of logged-off edits from Houston, Texas, and because he added the same information on films to his WP user page, his DeviantArt page and his amazon.com review page. Very recently he has started using his WP username elsewhere. TrevelyanL85A2 has written his real life name and AIM account on his wikipedia userpage. This mess was created by Occam and Ferahgo. I noticed it and reported it. No different from noticing and reporting the sockpuppetry of Mikemikev. If arbitrators want to use language that is neutral, they should take a refresher course in User:Newyorkbrad/Bradspeak. I don't think it is reasonable of Jclemens to make any comparisons between me and the DeviantArt tag team. They have indicated their own ideology, but I have said nothing either on-wiki or off-wiki. These are users who have been involved in a calculated act of deception. I have been involved in no such acts, either on-wiki or off-wiki, so please WP:AGF. Yes, I dispprove of their acts of deception, continuing even now through SightWatcher (see below). Many thanks, Mathsci ( talk) 09:00, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Re DeviantArt team: I am not sure any good faith can be directed towards SightWatcher. after months of silence he has now miraculously found his tongue and become the spokesperson on wikipedia for two site-banned users. If he persists in proxy-editing like this, employing the same loopholes and wikilawyering as Ferahgo and Occam to circumvent his topic ban, then probably the site-bans of Occam and Ferahgo should be extended coterminously to him. At no stage, in particular below, has he accepted any responsibility for his own role in this calculated long-term act of deception, which has wasted hours and hours of time.
SightWatcher's comments seem confused but seem to be his first public admission to arbitrators that he was involved in the off-wiki attack pages and fake account for Mathsci and Muntuwandi on FurAffinity. The fake account for me was registered on 26 November 2010, but unused until 1 April 2011. By a strange coincidence, his DeviantArt identity was discovered by me on exactly the same day and emailed to Shell Kinney. She graciously thanked me for that information and, having asked my permission, forwarded that message on to the arbitration committee. The event SightWatcher is referring to is the off-wiki joke/attack page on FurAffinity on 1 April 2011. He seems to be identifying himself as one of the perpetrators, unless I have misunderstood what he wrote. SightWatcher has evidently been in contact with Ferahgo, otherwise he would not know the about content of the single wikipedia email I sent her in May 2011. Is there any other vaguely plausible explanation? After all, according to SightWatcher's version of events, he only became aware of the discussions of his own proxy-editing very recently. That version of events is not credible at this juncture. My on-wiki evidence shows collusion with Ferahgo and Occam, that cannot be explained otherwise. Off-wiki evidence provided to Shell Kinney in November contradicts SightWatcher's version of events. His account adopts the same tone as Ferahgo's statements on-wiki and also in the small amount of private "evidence" that I was shown at an extremely late stage. The names of SightWatcher and TrevelyanL85A2 have been mentioned in AE requests (January), requests for amendment (January-March) and on the evidence page of the review (since 25 March). Knowing that the arbitration committee is aware of his friendship with Ferahgo, does SightWatcher think it is reasonable to expect arbitrators to believe that he was unaware that his editing was being discussed? A more likely explanation is that Ferahgo preferred to be the sole spokesperson for the DeviantArt crowd while she still could, to maintain consistency. With SightWatcher's comments here, there is no longer any consistency. Mathsci ( talk) 07:04, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Sir Fozzie was inactive during the case and. from what I can tell. he has not been following it. I understand that he has not been in the best of health and I sincerely hope that he is on his way to a full recovery. In the circumstances, however, it is not clear why he is commenting here.
Please could arbitrators wait for comments from arbitrators who have been active during the case, like Newyorkbrad. Knowing wikipedia, that will probably not happen overnight. During the review, as Roger Davies has explained, Ferahgo the Assassin was granted a large amount of latitude in presenting her case—far more than is usual given the circumstances. In the end it was not justified by the outcome. I saw only tiny snippets of her "evidence" and at a very late stage. For that reason, there seems to be no need to rush to a decision particularly before established arbitrators active on the case have had a chance to respond. Mathsci ( talk) 17:07, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
The last case WP:ARBR&I has come and gone. Vecrumba started editing R&I during that case, so any discussion ended with the close of that case on 25 August 2010. If Vecrumba wants to re-submit evidence that he already presented during that case, he is two years too late. His friends Occam and Ferahgo proxy edited through at least three known accounts (SightWatcher, TrevelyanL85A2 and Boothello) and that seems not to have registered with him. Given the campaign of off-wiki coordination in WP:ARBR&I that has been finally acknowledged by the review coupled with Vecrumba's own prior involvement in other off-wiki coordination, the timing of his comments here is quite unfortunate in the circumstances. Whether prompted or not, Vecrumba's edits are hyperbolic drama-creating rhetoric after the review has closed and proxy editing has already been identified by evidence gathered by the arbitration commitee themselves. If he now has gripes about that, WP:VPN or WP:ACN are thataway. Mathsci ( talk) 07:44, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Since this request mentions me by name, I hope it's okay that I comment.
I've just noticed I'm topic banned now, and I don't understand why. I understand what the accusation is, what lead to it, and how it might be considered questionable, but directly I fail to see how I acted improperly. The arbitrators are right that I got involved in R&I articles because of a discussion in Ferahgo's blog, but she didn't ask me to. Silktork said here [13] that there's nothing wrong with getting involved in Wikipedia because of a discussion somewhere else. I don't care about R&I anymore and haven't for several months, but as a matter of principles I believe that I shouldn't be punished if I didn't do anything wrong.
Has anyone here even considered that I didn't want my friends and family to know I was editing R&I articles? I didn't want Ferahgo to know who I was, and I picked a name she wouldn't recognize. But when Mathsci figured out my off-wiki identity, he emailed Ferahgo about it right away! I stopped editing the articles after Ferahgo got suspicious about who I was and because I couldn't deal with the stresses of dealing with such a heated argument. But for more than a year after that, Mathsci kept talking about my off-wiki identity, without any thought about how it affects her friendship with me.
It's bad enough that nobody thought I wouldn't want my friends and family to know I was involved here. But calling what I did "proxy editing" is just a terribly false accusation. Proxy editing would be if Ferahgo asked me to get involved and told me what to post. I chose to get involved, and all posts I made I did by my own choice. Mathsci it would seem can't tell the difference between proxy editing and what actually happened. I will not sit down and allow my integrity to be put under attack simply because of who I choose as my friends.- SightWatcher ( talk) 03:15, 18 May 2012 (UTC)
Not again!!
SightWatcher was topic banned by arbcom, not by Mathsci. It is worth noting that SightWatcher's re-entry to the conflict piggy-backs Mathsci's seeking to reword his own sanction, and that SightWatcher framed his response as seeking remedy how to deal with "Matschi's continued battleground behavior". Here Mathsci's simply citing the arbcom findings to back his argument how his sanction should be worded. While SightWatcher's response seeks a return to Day One: "Make Mathsci keep his nose out of it and allow me and/or my proxy-of-the-week to return to R/I". This solution made little sense in the first arbcom go-round, and makes demonstrably less sense now.
If SightWatcher wishes to Amend his sanction, I believe it warrants a separate filing. But I think it's best for everybody involved (especially SightWatcher) to just move on. Professor marginalia ( talk) 07:52, 19 May 2012 (UTC)
Why is the committee turning a blind eye to Mathsci's continued battleground behavior? He's just added over 2,000 words of text attacking other editors, including some of the arbitrators who aren't giving him what he wanted. After the review closed, he only stopped for long enough to make 3 inconsequential article edits before launching into this. It's abundantly clear that being admonished for his battleground behavior is causing more battleground behavior from him, not less of it.
This isn't only a nuisance, it also disrupts the functioning of the project. It means none of the editors he regards as adversaries can ever make a request related to R&I without the discussion being bogged down by Mathsci's walls of text. It means I can never appeal my topic ban unless I want to endure this again, and neither can anyone else. If you want to restore normalcy to the topic, or if you want to reduce the amount of drama plaguing every discussion about it, the problem is staring you right in the face. Boothello ( talk) 02:43, 20 May 2012 (UTC)
If Mathsci's continued battleground behavior can't be addressed in this thread for procedural reasons, I'd like to request that another case or review be opened. If that also can't be done in this thread, I can make a separate arbitration request for it. Two factors have led this:
A: It's become increasingly clear since the review closed that arbcom's admonishment is not changing Mathsci's battleground behavior.
B: It's also clear this issue can't be handled by the community. If it could, it would have been addressed in any of the 20 or so AN/I reports about Mathsci since 2008 (not all of which involve race and intelligence).
I should point out that the whole time I've been registered at Wikipedia, Mathsci's battleground behavior towards me has made my involvement so frustrating, I no longer have any interest in staying part of the project if the problem isn't addressed. This is why I'm semi-retired now. So I'm not afraid of my own behavior being examined in a review. The best-case scenario is that the situation improves, while the worst-case scenario is that I have to leave the project, which is what I'd be doing anyway if the problem can't be resolved. Boothello ( talk) 22:54, 21 May 2012 (UTC)
I can only highlight Boothello's statement above: "the whole time I've been registered at Wikipedia, Mathsci's battleground behavior towards me has made my involvement so frustrating". That a topic banned proxy editor finds enforcement "frustrating" is a good thing, and is evidence that wikipedia process is active. Suggesting that this frustration is due to the battleground activity of Mathsci and not the product of biased proxy editing is just another example of disruptive behavior. The idea that proxy editors (like Boothelo) are not the primary cause of disruption is ludicrous. Per the requested amendment, I support removing the word "ideological" from the sanction. Pursuing enforcement against proxy editors is not an ideological position. aprock ( talk) 15:35, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
When I first arrived at R&I, Mathsci assaulted me for no reason whatsoever. I can dig up the diffs. I see no reason to limit Mathsci's combativeness as applying only to perceived proxy accounts. Every editor Mathsci doesn't agree with is a proxy for some enemy editor. Just watching from the sidelines, I'm exhausted by Mathsci's endless conspiracy theories and attempts to turn R&I into a Mathsci police state. VєсrumЬа ► TALK 04:15, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Mathsci asks to amend decision that he "has engaged in borderline personal attacks and frequent battleground conduct", but unfortunately his amendment request has became just that. This reminds me famous Brer Rabbit. Everyone, do not do it please. My very best wishes ( talk) 15:27, 22 May 2012 (UTC)
Initiated by Mathsci ( talk) at 04:42, 10 November 2012 (UTC)
In the review, harassment was mentioned explicitly in the first question, "Has Mathsci been harassed by socks?", which was answered comprehensively, but there was no finding. That has led to a number of anomalies. A change was proposed to remedy 1.1 in a previous request for amendment, specifying exactly the context of the battleground behaviour. That change was not adopted at the time. Subsequently the finding and remedy have been misused to imply that the harassment or wikhounding is somehow my own fault and that I deserve it. The changes in phrasing show a recognition of the wikihounding and harassment that was part of the focus of the original review. By more careful phrasing it avoids the problems caused by the misuse of the findings and remedy in dealing with harassment and wikihounding by banned editors, including most recently the first identified sockpuppet, Zeromus1 ( talk · contribs · deleted contribs · logs · filter log · block user · block log), of the site-banned editors Captain Occam and Ferahgo the Assassin. Until the outcome of the review is amended in this way—in particular removing the implication that my reporting of sockpuppet accounts of Echigo mole is undue—I cannot edit wikipedia (its failure to value or protect academic contributors is disappointing). This request for amendment was precipitated by a portion of the arbitration committee attempting to impose sanctions on me without evidence of misconduct. It was an attempt to control harassment caused by banned editors by sanctioning their victims. It was enacted while I was known to be very ill and, by being passed on a whim without evidence, has unwittingly created a precedent which could cause future problems, in particular for administrators helping out on WP:AE. [14]
{Other editors are free to comment on this amendment as necessary. Comments here should be directed only at the above proposed amendment.}