The article was kept by Dana boomer 21:04, 29 March 2010 [1].
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I am nominating this featured article for review because I feel it no longer meets the featured article criteria. The main reason is that most of its content was written before accident investigation was concluded at December, 2008. It omits major findings gathered during investigations. Thus it doesn't meet criteria 1.b, it is not comprehensible. Since most of findings involve information about living persons, all findings and conclusions of Final Report cannot be described in the article without raising Biographies of living persons issues. The editors turned the subject of the article from the Accident to Accident Final Reports. If we have a perspective of the accident, Final Reports are secondary source as we can verify in Original research and Secondary source. But as the editors turned the subject to Accident Reports, the Final Report itself becomes a primary source. The editors don't allow us to cite Final Report findings, because it raises BLP issues, which turns de accident not understandable. All the findings that are human errors cannot be included in the article, even if they were reported in the investigation. The article should return having as subject the accident, allowing us to describe the accident including the findings of the investigation. If the investigation is the subject by itself, it should be transformed in a new article. E.g. it is the same as in a car accident article we could not write that the driver crossed a red light. We would be criticizing a living person and raising BLP issues.
The article doesn't meet criteria 1.c; it is not well-researched. It discarded the most relevant literature on the topic, which is the Final Report of the Accident. Turning Final Report into a primary source, as described above, we are not allowed to cite it or quote it without referencing what would be a secondary source. The article is full of newspaper and magazines articles as references, that although may be considered reliable sources to public facts and events, and even that they may be considered specialized magazines and well-known newspaper, they cannot be considered comprehensibles sources to describe a accident as the Final Report produced by aeronautical accident researchers and submitted to a kind of peer review of governmental authorities before publishing would be.
The article doesn't meet criteria 1.d; it is clearly not neutral. The article makes large use of articles of magazines and newspaper of the same publisher that hires Joe Sharkey, a journalist that runs a blog in defense of the crew, and also articles whose author Sharkey calls "my correspondent in Sao Paulo". The accident involves human failures of Brazilian ATC (Air Traffic Control) and an American aircraft crew. The editors using a reasoning that an entire organization doesn't fall under BLP unless specific individuals are targeted, criticize Brazilian ATC, making what one could call an inverted Hasty Generalization which is a logical fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence. It commonly involves basing a broad conclusion upon the statistics of a survey of a small group that fails to sufficiently represent the whole population. The editors criticize indirectly the individuals, criticizing generically the organization. E.g. "Many have poor English skills, limiting their ability to communicate with foreign pilots, which played a role in crash of Flight 1907". Since we are not allowed to mention any fact or event mentioned in Final Report that could be considered criticism to the crew because it would be raising BLP issues, the article becomes clearly not neutral and biased against ATC. Although there are a lot of Brazilian sources that summarizes the accident causes, the editors discarded them all.
XX Sdruvss 01:54, 26 December 2009 (UTC) reply
Comment. As near as I can make out, this is a content dispute that should not be the basis of a FAR. Eubulides ( talk) 09:50, 26 December 2009 (UTC) reply
Relatório do Cenipa aponta erros de pilotos e militares
Aeronáutica culpa pilotos e controladores por acidente da Gol
FAB expõe falhas de pilotos e do controle (In my humble opinion, this is the best)
Pilotos desligaram transponder inadvertidamente, diz Cenipa
Cenipa apresenta relatório final do acidente aéreo da Gol; leia o relatório
Relatório sobre acidente da Gol aponta erros dos controladores e pilotos do Legacy
Relatório aponta erro de operação em acidente de avião da Gol
Deficiências no preparo dos controladores e dos pilotos do Legacy contribuíram para o acidente da Gol, diz relatório do Cenipa
There is more if you need. There aren't two final reports. There is just one, "CENIPA Final Report" (266 pages), NTSB Appendix 1 to CENIPA final report ("U.S. Summary Comments on the Draft Final Report", 4 pages) and NTSB Appendix 2 to CENIPA final report ("U.S. Detailed Comments on Draft Final Report", 10 pages), which means that NTSB made comments to the CENIPA draft final report and not another final report. XX
Sdruvss 15:35, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
reply
CAUSES
- 1. Failure to carry out an appropriate flight planning by Legacy's pilots.
- 2. Hurry to take off and pressure of the passengers of the Legacy, preventing sufficient knowledge of the flight plan for pilots.
- 3. Inadvertent shutdown of the transponder, possibly by the limited experience of the [Legacy's] pilots.
- 4. Lack of communication between pilots and controllers.
- 5. Lack of integration between the Legacy pilots and little experience in piloting this type of aircraft.
- 6. The air traffic control in Sao Jose dos Campos, Brasilia and Manaus, although providing surveillance radar, did not correct the flight level of the Legacy or conducted procedures for certification of altitude when they started not to receive information from the transponder.
- 7. The controllers did not transfer correctly traffic from Brasilia to Manaus.
- 8. Flight controllers did not provide the predicted frequency for the Legacy to communicate adequately in the Amazon region.
- 9. The lack of involvement of supervisors of controllers, letting that decisions and actions over the Legacy flight were taken individually, without monitoring, advice and guidance provided for the air traffic control.
XX Sdruvss 16:40, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
The fact that New York Times calls the NTSB report a dissenting report proves they are wrong because there is only "Comments on Draft Report". The fact that it was published before Final Report disclosure is because it was done on a draft report basis as they say in the title. We do not even know what happened between Draft Report and Final report disclosure. Final report could even had included NTSB comments.XX Sdruvss 16:49, 27 December 2009 (UTC) reply
What do you mean? That CENIPA report (266 pages) is not good enough to we know the causes of the accident? You think that all Brazilian mainstream newspaper are not able to summarize them as well as Sharkey's publisher? Do you think that because CENIPA doesn't point a "probable cause" it can't be summarized by Estado? Do you think that Pedicine is a better researcher then all these Brazilian newspaper? XX Sdruvss 20:54, 27 December 2009 (UTC) reply
According to Brigadier Jorge Kersul Filho, CENIPA’s chief, "An accident does not occur only by a factor. They are several factors combined". Do you think that Sharkey’s publishers are more reliable then Kersul? Do you believe that CENIPA report is not neutral because CENIPA is a military organization? Do you believe that there is a compíracy theory that explains CENIPA report? XX Sdruvss 21:35, 27 December 2009 (UTC) reply
I am nominating this featured article for review because I feel that the consensus between editors doesn't meet the featured article criteria. Although I assume editors good faith, there is a not neutral consensus. I have the right to do it, right? XX Sdruvss 00:51, 29 December 2009 (UTC) reply
This editor sentence deserves to be copied here: "The New York Times and Aviation Week tell us the CENIPA and NTSB reports are in conflict with each other. Are you aware of any secondary source, in any language, from any country, which tells us NTSB and CENIPA are not in conflict with each other? If so, please provide that source" (Crum375). NYT and AW are Joe Sharkey's publishers. This is the reason that ALL Brazilian sources that summarize the accident causes are obstructed: ALL sources don't say that NTSB disagrees! He accepts only sources that mention NTSB and ALL Brazilians sources don't mention NTSB. XX Sdruvss 23:58, 29 December 2009 (UTC) reply
It's incredible that an accident that has happened in Brazil, has had a huge impact in Brazilian politics, has originated a Parliament Investigation Committee, and is being reported by newspapers as Folha. which has 604 articles about it, Estadao which has 255 articles, Globo which has 732 articles, has as only reliable sources to summarize final report one article of Aviation Week and one article of New York Times written by a freelancer journalist, correspondent in Brazil. XX Sdruvss 22:15, 5 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Material is written in a manner that NTSB comments overwhelm the article and appear to take crew side; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone. It gives disproportionate space to the particular NTSB's viewpoint, omitting CENIPA findings, facts, and evidences. Care should be taken with article structure to ensure the overall presentation is broadly neutral; in particular, section headings should reflect areas important to the subject's notability. If there is only one Final Report, the section title couldn't be "Final Reports". The space of "Comments on Draft Final Report" (10 pages) couldn't be longer than the "Final Report" (266 pages) and couldn't entirely obstruct Final Report findings. Even if the source is reliable, but what they say is easily verified to by false, they should be discarded. Many sources use extracts of NTSB comments to build new meaning. People reading WP article want to know what happened and judge by themselves. They don't want that facts, evidences be omitted. They can make up their minds, they don't need someone else conducting their conclusions. The editors of this article end the Final Report section saying: "Aviation Week adds that the Brazilian military operates that country's air traffic control system, conducted the investigation and authored the report", inducing readers that CENIPA report is not neutral and raising a " conspiracy theory". XX Sdruvss 17:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC) reply
After intense debate, (admin) editors of this article rebuff correcting their mistakes:
It’s very curious that nobody made any comments after my analyses of Crum’s reliable sources. XX Sdruvss 19:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
As can be proved by this edition reverted by Crum375, there is a clear intention to cover the evidences gathered in accident final report and build a false story of two final reports to WP readers. This article clearly has never meet the featured article criteria. XX Sdruvss 15:40, 10 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Cover-up: “Cover-ups do not necessarily require the active manipulation of facts or circumstances. Arguably the most common form of cover-up is one of non-action. It is the conscious failure to release incriminating information by a third party. This "passive cover-up" is often justified by the motive of not wanting to embarrass the culprit or expose them to criminal prosecution or even the belief that the cover-up is justified by protecting the greater community from scandal. Yet, because of the passive cover-up, the misdeed often goes undiscovered and results in harm to others ensuing from its failure to be discovered”. XX Sdruvss 14:00, 11 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Gatekeeping: "In human communication, in particular, in journalism, gatekeeping is the process through which ideas and information are filtered for publication. The internal decision making process of relaying or withholding information from the media to the masses. The theory was first instituted by social psychologist Kurt Lewin in 1947 and is still one of the most important theories studied by students of mass communication and journalism. Gatekeeping occurs at all levels of the media structure - from a reporter deciding which sources are chosen to include in a story to editors deciding which stories are printed, or even covered". XX Sdruvss 16:54, 11 February 2010 (UTC) reply
This WP article is clearly being edited by some press secretary of one or more companies involved in the accident, and blocking all information that could make WP readers better understand the accident. But I assume their good faith. XX Sdruvss 18:59, 12 February 2010 (UTC) reply
The article was kept by Dana boomer 21:04, 29 March 2010 [1].
Toolbox |
---|
I am nominating this featured article for review because I feel it no longer meets the featured article criteria. The main reason is that most of its content was written before accident investigation was concluded at December, 2008. It omits major findings gathered during investigations. Thus it doesn't meet criteria 1.b, it is not comprehensible. Since most of findings involve information about living persons, all findings and conclusions of Final Report cannot be described in the article without raising Biographies of living persons issues. The editors turned the subject of the article from the Accident to Accident Final Reports. If we have a perspective of the accident, Final Reports are secondary source as we can verify in Original research and Secondary source. But as the editors turned the subject to Accident Reports, the Final Report itself becomes a primary source. The editors don't allow us to cite Final Report findings, because it raises BLP issues, which turns de accident not understandable. All the findings that are human errors cannot be included in the article, even if they were reported in the investigation. The article should return having as subject the accident, allowing us to describe the accident including the findings of the investigation. If the investigation is the subject by itself, it should be transformed in a new article. E.g. it is the same as in a car accident article we could not write that the driver crossed a red light. We would be criticizing a living person and raising BLP issues.
The article doesn't meet criteria 1.c; it is not well-researched. It discarded the most relevant literature on the topic, which is the Final Report of the Accident. Turning Final Report into a primary source, as described above, we are not allowed to cite it or quote it without referencing what would be a secondary source. The article is full of newspaper and magazines articles as references, that although may be considered reliable sources to public facts and events, and even that they may be considered specialized magazines and well-known newspaper, they cannot be considered comprehensibles sources to describe a accident as the Final Report produced by aeronautical accident researchers and submitted to a kind of peer review of governmental authorities before publishing would be.
The article doesn't meet criteria 1.d; it is clearly not neutral. The article makes large use of articles of magazines and newspaper of the same publisher that hires Joe Sharkey, a journalist that runs a blog in defense of the crew, and also articles whose author Sharkey calls "my correspondent in Sao Paulo". The accident involves human failures of Brazilian ATC (Air Traffic Control) and an American aircraft crew. The editors using a reasoning that an entire organization doesn't fall under BLP unless specific individuals are targeted, criticize Brazilian ATC, making what one could call an inverted Hasty Generalization which is a logical fallacy of faulty generalization by reaching an inductive generalization based on insufficient evidence. It commonly involves basing a broad conclusion upon the statistics of a survey of a small group that fails to sufficiently represent the whole population. The editors criticize indirectly the individuals, criticizing generically the organization. E.g. "Many have poor English skills, limiting their ability to communicate with foreign pilots, which played a role in crash of Flight 1907". Since we are not allowed to mention any fact or event mentioned in Final Report that could be considered criticism to the crew because it would be raising BLP issues, the article becomes clearly not neutral and biased against ATC. Although there are a lot of Brazilian sources that summarizes the accident causes, the editors discarded them all.
XX Sdruvss 01:54, 26 December 2009 (UTC) reply
Comment. As near as I can make out, this is a content dispute that should not be the basis of a FAR. Eubulides ( talk) 09:50, 26 December 2009 (UTC) reply
Relatório do Cenipa aponta erros de pilotos e militares
Aeronáutica culpa pilotos e controladores por acidente da Gol
FAB expõe falhas de pilotos e do controle (In my humble opinion, this is the best)
Pilotos desligaram transponder inadvertidamente, diz Cenipa
Cenipa apresenta relatório final do acidente aéreo da Gol; leia o relatório
Relatório sobre acidente da Gol aponta erros dos controladores e pilotos do Legacy
Relatório aponta erro de operação em acidente de avião da Gol
Deficiências no preparo dos controladores e dos pilotos do Legacy contribuíram para o acidente da Gol, diz relatório do Cenipa
There is more if you need. There aren't two final reports. There is just one, "CENIPA Final Report" (266 pages), NTSB Appendix 1 to CENIPA final report ("U.S. Summary Comments on the Draft Final Report", 4 pages) and NTSB Appendix 2 to CENIPA final report ("U.S. Detailed Comments on Draft Final Report", 10 pages), which means that NTSB made comments to the CENIPA draft final report and not another final report. XX
Sdruvss 15:35, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
reply
CAUSES
- 1. Failure to carry out an appropriate flight planning by Legacy's pilots.
- 2. Hurry to take off and pressure of the passengers of the Legacy, preventing sufficient knowledge of the flight plan for pilots.
- 3. Inadvertent shutdown of the transponder, possibly by the limited experience of the [Legacy's] pilots.
- 4. Lack of communication between pilots and controllers.
- 5. Lack of integration between the Legacy pilots and little experience in piloting this type of aircraft.
- 6. The air traffic control in Sao Jose dos Campos, Brasilia and Manaus, although providing surveillance radar, did not correct the flight level of the Legacy or conducted procedures for certification of altitude when they started not to receive information from the transponder.
- 7. The controllers did not transfer correctly traffic from Brasilia to Manaus.
- 8. Flight controllers did not provide the predicted frequency for the Legacy to communicate adequately in the Amazon region.
- 9. The lack of involvement of supervisors of controllers, letting that decisions and actions over the Legacy flight were taken individually, without monitoring, advice and guidance provided for the air traffic control.
XX Sdruvss 16:40, 27 December 2009 (UTC)
The fact that New York Times calls the NTSB report a dissenting report proves they are wrong because there is only "Comments on Draft Report". The fact that it was published before Final Report disclosure is because it was done on a draft report basis as they say in the title. We do not even know what happened between Draft Report and Final report disclosure. Final report could even had included NTSB comments.XX Sdruvss 16:49, 27 December 2009 (UTC) reply
What do you mean? That CENIPA report (266 pages) is not good enough to we know the causes of the accident? You think that all Brazilian mainstream newspaper are not able to summarize them as well as Sharkey's publisher? Do you think that because CENIPA doesn't point a "probable cause" it can't be summarized by Estado? Do you think that Pedicine is a better researcher then all these Brazilian newspaper? XX Sdruvss 20:54, 27 December 2009 (UTC) reply
According to Brigadier Jorge Kersul Filho, CENIPA’s chief, "An accident does not occur only by a factor. They are several factors combined". Do you think that Sharkey’s publishers are more reliable then Kersul? Do you believe that CENIPA report is not neutral because CENIPA is a military organization? Do you believe that there is a compíracy theory that explains CENIPA report? XX Sdruvss 21:35, 27 December 2009 (UTC) reply
I am nominating this featured article for review because I feel that the consensus between editors doesn't meet the featured article criteria. Although I assume editors good faith, there is a not neutral consensus. I have the right to do it, right? XX Sdruvss 00:51, 29 December 2009 (UTC) reply
This editor sentence deserves to be copied here: "The New York Times and Aviation Week tell us the CENIPA and NTSB reports are in conflict with each other. Are you aware of any secondary source, in any language, from any country, which tells us NTSB and CENIPA are not in conflict with each other? If so, please provide that source" (Crum375). NYT and AW are Joe Sharkey's publishers. This is the reason that ALL Brazilian sources that summarize the accident causes are obstructed: ALL sources don't say that NTSB disagrees! He accepts only sources that mention NTSB and ALL Brazilians sources don't mention NTSB. XX Sdruvss 23:58, 29 December 2009 (UTC) reply
It's incredible that an accident that has happened in Brazil, has had a huge impact in Brazilian politics, has originated a Parliament Investigation Committee, and is being reported by newspapers as Folha. which has 604 articles about it, Estadao which has 255 articles, Globo which has 732 articles, has as only reliable sources to summarize final report one article of Aviation Week and one article of New York Times written by a freelancer journalist, correspondent in Brazil. XX Sdruvss 22:15, 5 January 2010 (UTC) reply
Material is written in a manner that NTSB comments overwhelm the article and appear to take crew side; it needs to be presented responsibly, conservatively, and in a neutral, encyclopedic tone. It gives disproportionate space to the particular NTSB's viewpoint, omitting CENIPA findings, facts, and evidences. Care should be taken with article structure to ensure the overall presentation is broadly neutral; in particular, section headings should reflect areas important to the subject's notability. If there is only one Final Report, the section title couldn't be "Final Reports". The space of "Comments on Draft Final Report" (10 pages) couldn't be longer than the "Final Report" (266 pages) and couldn't entirely obstruct Final Report findings. Even if the source is reliable, but what they say is easily verified to by false, they should be discarded. Many sources use extracts of NTSB comments to build new meaning. People reading WP article want to know what happened and judge by themselves. They don't want that facts, evidences be omitted. They can make up their minds, they don't need someone else conducting their conclusions. The editors of this article end the Final Report section saying: "Aviation Week adds that the Brazilian military operates that country's air traffic control system, conducted the investigation and authored the report", inducing readers that CENIPA report is not neutral and raising a " conspiracy theory". XX Sdruvss 17:24, 6 January 2010 (UTC) reply
After intense debate, (admin) editors of this article rebuff correcting their mistakes:
It’s very curious that nobody made any comments after my analyses of Crum’s reliable sources. XX Sdruvss 19:52, 3 February 2010 (UTC) reply
As can be proved by this edition reverted by Crum375, there is a clear intention to cover the evidences gathered in accident final report and build a false story of two final reports to WP readers. This article clearly has never meet the featured article criteria. XX Sdruvss 15:40, 10 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Cover-up: “Cover-ups do not necessarily require the active manipulation of facts or circumstances. Arguably the most common form of cover-up is one of non-action. It is the conscious failure to release incriminating information by a third party. This "passive cover-up" is often justified by the motive of not wanting to embarrass the culprit or expose them to criminal prosecution or even the belief that the cover-up is justified by protecting the greater community from scandal. Yet, because of the passive cover-up, the misdeed often goes undiscovered and results in harm to others ensuing from its failure to be discovered”. XX Sdruvss 14:00, 11 February 2010 (UTC) reply
Gatekeeping: "In human communication, in particular, in journalism, gatekeeping is the process through which ideas and information are filtered for publication. The internal decision making process of relaying or withholding information from the media to the masses. The theory was first instituted by social psychologist Kurt Lewin in 1947 and is still one of the most important theories studied by students of mass communication and journalism. Gatekeeping occurs at all levels of the media structure - from a reporter deciding which sources are chosen to include in a story to editors deciding which stories are printed, or even covered". XX Sdruvss 16:54, 11 February 2010 (UTC) reply
This WP article is clearly being edited by some press secretary of one or more companies involved in the accident, and blocking all information that could make WP readers better understand the accident. But I assume their good faith. XX Sdruvss 18:59, 12 February 2010 (UTC) reply