Nadia Naji ( talk| | history| logs| links| watch) ( XfD| restore)

I believe my rationale for delete carried more weight than those of the other two editors who voted to keep. I pinged Randykitty to know the rationale for 'No consensus' where they said there were policy-based arguments for and against deletion., but I do not see any policy based keep votes on the AfD apart from the IP's final comment. Jeraxmoira🐉 ( talk) 20:08, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

• Endorse the keep votes are weakly justified, the delete vote stands alone, there's plainly no consensus for any kind of action. BrigadierG ( talk) 20:16, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  I don't think standing alone matters here, rather what's important is the deletion rationale, as AfDs are not based on votes. Please see bullet points #6, #7 and #12 on WP:DISCUSSAFD. Jeraxmoira🐉 ( talk) 20:37, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

• Endorse. Despite the AFD being listed for a month, there is not a WP:QUORUM to delete the article, no matter how weak the "keep" votes are. While a soft delete could be possible without a quorum, the article would need to be fully restored upon any good-faith request (e.g. the "keep" votes in the AFD). Therefore, no consensus is clearly the correct result. Frank Anchor 20:33, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  This was not the reason the closing admin gave on their talk page. Even if the closer's rationale was based on WP:QUORUM, I believe the three other common outcomes listed on WP:NOQUORUM apart from relisting would have been more suitable here. Jeraxmoira🐉 ( talk) 20:54, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  The end result is the most important aspect. The end result was correct. Frank Anchor 22:46, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply

• Endorse There is simply no consensus to delete that article. I've been in frustratingly similar situations before considering I don't necessarily see clear good sources. No reason you can't wait six months and try again. SportingFlyer T· C 22:13, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply
• Endorse. Even if there were no Keep views at all, the most the appellant could hope for is a soft delete, to be instantly restored at the first good-faith request, as Frank Anchor explained. With any opposition at all to deletion, no matter how weak, we won't delete based on a solitary !vote. Jeraxmoira, you've been here long enough to know that. Treat this a contested PROD, and move on. Owen× ☎ 22:45, 22 April 2024 (UTC) reply
• Endorse. There was no consensus to be found from the limited participation. Just because you disagree with their opinion doesn't mean they weren't policy based. FWIW, an editorial discussion might find an ATD such as Groen_(political_party)#Party_chairperson if that's of interest. Honestly I think minor European political parties are of relatively little interest here. Star Mississippi 01:39, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
• Comment Addressing the comments above, I find it interesting how everyone interprets the policies to suit the AFD outcome. What's the point of waiting 6 months when the IP arguments were based on WP:IAR, automatic notability and The number of sources is only going to rapidly increase over the coming weeks and months. Regarding everyone's argument about the AFD receiving no quorum, the common outcomes at WP:NOQUORUM are:

• closing as "no consensus" with "no prejudice against speedy renomination" (NPASR)
• closing in favour of the nominator's stated proposal
• soft deleting the article.

I believe NPASR would have been more suitable here considering the format of AFD clearly mentions "Unregistered or new users are welcome to contribute to the discussion, but their recommendations may be discounted if they seem to be made in bad faith (for example, if they misrepresent their reasons). Conversely, the opinions of logged in users whose accounts predate the article's AfD nomination may be given more weight when determining consensus.". PamD's keep did not have WP:THREE, so I feel this AFD was gamed into no consensus by the IP editor. FWIW, I was okay with ATD-I and ATD-R as mentioned in my AFD comment.

I rest my case at this point as I can see that many of the arguments are solely based on WP:QUORUM, but the surprise is how none of you wanted to argue the common outcomes that is also listed on WP:QUORUM. Cheers Jeraxmoira🐉 ( talk) 06:20, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

The first part of your comment seems to show concern that @ Randykitty didn't follow the letter of NOQUORUM as you read it, but then you cite THREE which isn't even a guideline but an editor's opinion. It really isn't possible to have it both ways when AfDs will almost always come down to some subjectivity. You believe NPASR would be suitable, but that's a N/C which you're contesting here. I ask with no sarcasm, you realize the ability to renominate isn't contingent on the closer typing exactly that acronym, right? You still retain that right because you can cite limited participation. Star Mississippi 11:40, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

Randykitty did not close the AfD citing WP:QUORUM. Only the editors here argued that there was no quorum to achieve consensus, for which I highlighted the common outcomes. And no, I did not know that we can cite limited participation and work around what's on WP:2MONTHS. If that is the case, then this DRV can be closed as withdrawn. Jeraxmoira🐉 ( talk) 15:26, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

• Endorse, could not possibly have been closed any other way. Stifle ( talk) 07:25, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
• Endorse. There's no policy grounds on which to simply discount the keeps. Weak-ish argument =/= discountable !vote.— Alalch E. 13:49, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
• Endorse - The appellant is asking to overturn to Delete, but, if the closer had said Delete, we would be overturning that to No Consensus. Robert McClenon ( talk) 14:35, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply
• Overturn to keep Nom admits there are two RS in the discussion, asks for a third: Thank you, that makes two sources. If you can share one more, I'll be happy to withdraw my nomination. That's 3-0 keep, even if the nom isn't inclined to admit that 'multiple' includes the number two. Jclemens ( talk) 16:09, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  Touché! I'm still happy with no consensus, but yours is indeed an apt response to this type of vexatious relitigation. Owen× ☎ 17:33, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  OwenX: Would you mind explaining how this is a type of vexatious relitigation? If not, please retract your statement. Jeraxmoira🐉 ( talk) 18:01, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  Everyone in this DRV has already explained to you, in every possible way, how there was nothing close to a consensus to delete in the AfD. And yet, you persist in your demand, because you feel the language used by the closing admin did not adequately validate your nomination, nor properly discard the Keep views. Once again: even without the Keep !votes altogether, there was still no consensus to delete, except as a soft delete, which is clearly contested. And since you admit to the existence of two sources providing significant coverage, even your solitary delete !vote loses its basis. The only respectable thing for you to do at this point is to promptly and unconditionally withdraw your appeal, and request a speedy close to this pointless waste of time. Owen× ☎ 18:32, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply

  I did not persist in my demand. My final argument was made here and I only replied to Star Mississippi after that. I never made any arguments to the other endorsers who voted after my final comment, so if you still feel it was a type of vexatious relitigation, then I cant help it. And I did not realize my above withdraw statement was a conditional one until you highlighted it now. This DRV can be speedy closed as withdrawn unconditionally by any editor/admin. Jeraxmoira🐉 ( talk) 19:24, 23 April 2024 (UTC) reply