June 26
Category:Linux distributions
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: procedural close. This is outside the scope of CFD.
✗
plicit 02:06, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
- For discussion Category:Linux distributions
- Nominator's rationale: This category is a total mess of sub-cats, sub-sub-cats and so on, without any rhyme or reason. This lack of rational organization has grown over time, without any sort of plan and the result is of no value to readers, because it is impossible to click though and find any given Linux distribution. They are all just lost in the catacombs here. There have been several recent good-faith attempts to address this, including the creation of Category:All Linux Distributions ( since deleted at CfD) and Category:Independent Linux distributions (also since deleted at CfD). As as alternative I started a discussion at Category talk:Linux distributions, but this did not attract any input. I had thought that the best solution would be to delete all the sub-cats and make it a monolithic category, which would basically list all the Linux distributions there, at least making it of some value to readers. In putting together a discussion for CfD here on that and cataloguing all the sub-cats, I ran into sub-cats like Category:Debian people and its sub-sub-cat Category:Debian Project leaders and also Category:Linux distribution logos and so on. I cannot find a way forward here that will work, so I am bringing this here for discussion in the hopes that editors with more experience in categories can suggest a way to fix this. - Ahunt ( talk) 23:20, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- If there are any subcategories which you think should be merged or deleted, for example because they are based on a non-defining characteristic, you should nominate these subcategories rather than the top category. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:40, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- Just to be clear here I am not bringing Category:Linux distributions because I think it needs deleting. I am bringing it here for a discussion on how to fix all the mess of sub-cats within it. I am happy to do the work, just need some sort of consensus on how best to proceed. - Ahunt ( talk) 15:30, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- It was clear that you do not propose deletion of Category:Linux distributions, but you do need to make an extra step. You apparently have a problem with certain subcategories and this discussion is not going anywhere when you do not share which subcategories you have a problem with and why. Marcocapelle ( talk) 16:28, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- The problem is with all the sub-cats of Category:Linux distributions, how they are organized and lack of logical relation to each other. I did not do so because it is a large amount of clutter and editors may get more value from seeing them "in the wild" than in a list here, but I can make a list here if you think it would help. - Ahunt ( talk) 16:40, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
Done - at least that shows the size of the rabbit hole. Questions? -
Ahunt (
talk) 17:31, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- This is just the tree as is, I have collapsed it because it does not add much to the discussion. The question still stands, which of these subcategories would you want to have removed (merged/deleted) and why? Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:04, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for collapsing it, that is probably the only sane way to look at it. The reader complaints over time have always been that the category is an incomprehensible mess, in which it is impossible to navigate, which is true. I started out thinking that
Category:Linux distributions should contain only articles that are about actual Linux distributions (ie
Lubuntu,
Debian,
Puppy Linux, etc) and that all the sub-cats should be moved to other parent cats or just deleted, as applicable. This would result in
Category:Linux distributions at least becoming a useful listing of all the articles that we have on actual Linux distributions that readers could use to find Linux distributions. Right now it is not useful to anyone. The main issue is what to do with all the sub-cats, a few of which may be useful but need moving under a new parent cat and which ones can just be deleted. So
which of these subcategories would you want to have removed (merged/deleted) and why?
- all of them, for the reasons explained above, but I don't think it is that simple. As I noted above one editor tried to solve this larger issue issue by creating Category:All Linux Distributions (since deleted) as just a pure, navigable list of Linux distributions and put all the articles actually on Linux distributions in it. It was not a bad concept, but it was a flawed execution, as it just created more muddle within the category, not to mention not conforming to normal category naming. It would be almost ideal to just simply add the individual articles on Linux distributions directly to Category:Linux distributions, to create a list there, but that would mean that most of them would be in both parent and child categories at the same time. Would it be acceptable to invoke WP:DUPCAT and do just that? - Ahunt ( talk) 23:12, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- In order to get rid of subcategories you need to nominate them for merger/deletion and state a reason that the subcategory is undesirable, e.g. per one of the reasons stated in WP:OCAT. For example you might nominate Category:State-sponsored Linux distributions because being state-sponsored is not a defining characteristic of Linux distributions. You can also bundle a few subcategories in one nomination if the same reason applies to them. However, just not liking subcategories in general is not a sufficient reason of course. With that said, I think this discussion can be closed. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:48, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- As noted above I am not nominating any cats for deletion, I am looking for input and hopefully ultimately some consensus on how this can all be reorganized so it has some logical consistency and thus be of some value to readers. It is an open-ended question and one that is a much bigger issue than just nominating a couple of cats for deletion. It requires a higher level view and some useful suggestions on how to reorganize it all. So, yes, unless someone can provide that high-level view of the issue and make some useful suggestions on how to address this long-identified issue, then, I agree, we may as well close this discussion here. - Ahunt ( talk) 12:52, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- If that's what you're looking for, then you need to start a discussion on the talk page at Wikipedia:WikiProject Linux. CFD is not the place to discuss how to reorganize a category tree, it's the place to bring a completed proposal after the discussion has already been hashed out by a WikiProject. Bearcat ( talk) 04:26, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for collapsing it, that is probably the only sane way to look at it. The reader complaints over time have always been that the category is an incomprehensible mess, in which it is impossible to navigate, which is true. I started out thinking that
Category:Linux distributions should contain only articles that are about actual Linux distributions (ie
Lubuntu,
Debian,
Puppy Linux, etc) and that all the sub-cats should be moved to other parent cats or just deleted, as applicable. This would result in
Category:Linux distributions at least becoming a useful listing of all the articles that we have on actual Linux distributions that readers could use to find Linux distributions. Right now it is not useful to anyone. The main issue is what to do with all the sub-cats, a few of which may be useful but need moving under a new parent cat and which ones can just be deleted. So
- I brought it here for discussion because this is "categories for discussion", not "categories for deletion". I did start a discussion at Category talk:Linux distributions as a first step, but that resulted in no response. I had assessed starting discussions at WP:WikiProject Linux and WP:WikiProject Software, but both have been abandoned for a long time and unlikely to attract any discussion there. This venue was my last choice and has not resulted in any useful advice. If there continues to be no input I will just conclude that no one cares and come up with my own plan. - Ahunt ( talk) 12:46, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Decatur Baptist College alumni
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 July 4#Category:Decatur Baptist College alumni
Category:Locomotives that appeared in Chuggington
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete ( non-admin closure) Marcocapelle ( talk) 16:47, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Chuggington is a children's TV series, the merits of which I am not here to discuss. The pages in this category each mention Chuggington once ( EMD FT doesn't mention it at all), always in an "In fiction" section where it merits only a brief unsourced sentence. This is a case of WP:TRIVIALCAT, also WP:NONDEFINING. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 09:37, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete The show has definite merit but this is clear WP:PERFCAT for the locomotives. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 19:19, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Please note that the category has been depopulated out-of-process by Green Shy Guy 54 ( talk · contribs). Althogh the category is now empty, that will not make it eligible for WP:CSD#C1. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 07:50, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Fortune 40 Under 40 recipients
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. ✗ plicit 02:06, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCAWARD, this honor from a single magazine is not defining for a notable biography. User:Namiba 02:20, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:29, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete Getting 1/40th of an article is not defining. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 19:20, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:TOPTEN, not WP:OCAWARD. — HTGS ( talk) 07:26, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Greek suffixes
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 July 23#Category:Greek suffixes
Category:DEFCON 2 conflicts
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete.
✗
plicit 02:06, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
- Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:DEFCON
- Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:DEFCON 2 conflicts
- Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:DEFCON 3 conflicts
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING ( WP:TRIVIALCAT) and WP:GLOBAL
- DEFCON (defense readiness condition) is an alert state used by the U.S. military where lower numbers are more serious and "1" would be for a nuclear war. These categories rate different world conflicts on that U.S. scale like the Yom Kippur War, Korean axe murder incident, Gulf War, and September 11 attacks. The main problem here is that these were often global conflicts and other countries have their own systems: the UK had BIKINI color codes, France uses the Vigipirate color codes, and South Korea uses the WATCHCON number codes (which do not align to DEFCON).
- If we built out this alert state tree beyond the American categories, we'd end up with a whole bunch of color and number category clutter for articles about military conflicts. The current category contents are already listified right here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:46, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:38, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete. Conflicts are already listed in the article. -- choster ( talk) 21:16, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:DeKalb County-Fulton County, Georgia (U.S. state) in fiction
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete (
non-admin closure)
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:48, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Propose Deleting Category:Fictional characters from DeKalb County-Fulton County
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING ( WP:OCLOCATION & WP:OVERLAPCAT) and WP:V
- For background, Atlanta, Georgia (U.S state) is partly in DeKalb County and partly in Fulton County. The only thing in this tree is Category:Fictional characters from Atlanta which is already well parented, albeit it not by county. I don't care how many Star Trek re-runs you watch or how many DC Comics you read, you're never going to figure out which side of the county line Dr. Leonard McCoy or Damage are from, which I guess is why these cats are for both counties. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:46, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. The Living love talk 16:52, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
June 26
Category:Linux distributions
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: procedural close. This is outside the scope of CFD.
✗
plicit 02:06, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
- For discussion Category:Linux distributions
- Nominator's rationale: This category is a total mess of sub-cats, sub-sub-cats and so on, without any rhyme or reason. This lack of rational organization has grown over time, without any sort of plan and the result is of no value to readers, because it is impossible to click though and find any given Linux distribution. They are all just lost in the catacombs here. There have been several recent good-faith attempts to address this, including the creation of Category:All Linux Distributions ( since deleted at CfD) and Category:Independent Linux distributions (also since deleted at CfD). As as alternative I started a discussion at Category talk:Linux distributions, but this did not attract any input. I had thought that the best solution would be to delete all the sub-cats and make it a monolithic category, which would basically list all the Linux distributions there, at least making it of some value to readers. In putting together a discussion for CfD here on that and cataloguing all the sub-cats, I ran into sub-cats like Category:Debian people and its sub-sub-cat Category:Debian Project leaders and also Category:Linux distribution logos and so on. I cannot find a way forward here that will work, so I am bringing this here for discussion in the hopes that editors with more experience in categories can suggest a way to fix this. - Ahunt ( talk) 23:20, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- If there are any subcategories which you think should be merged or deleted, for example because they are based on a non-defining characteristic, you should nominate these subcategories rather than the top category. Marcocapelle ( talk) 06:40, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- Just to be clear here I am not bringing Category:Linux distributions because I think it needs deleting. I am bringing it here for a discussion on how to fix all the mess of sub-cats within it. I am happy to do the work, just need some sort of consensus on how best to proceed. - Ahunt ( talk) 15:30, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- It was clear that you do not propose deletion of Category:Linux distributions, but you do need to make an extra step. You apparently have a problem with certain subcategories and this discussion is not going anywhere when you do not share which subcategories you have a problem with and why. Marcocapelle ( talk) 16:28, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- The problem is with all the sub-cats of Category:Linux distributions, how they are organized and lack of logical relation to each other. I did not do so because it is a large amount of clutter and editors may get more value from seeing them "in the wild" than in a list here, but I can make a list here if you think it would help. - Ahunt ( talk) 16:40, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- Done - at least that shows the size of the rabbit hole. Questions? -
Ahunt (
talk) 17:31, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- This is just the tree as is, I have collapsed it because it does not add much to the discussion. The question still stands, which of these subcategories would you want to have removed (merged/deleted) and why? Marcocapelle ( talk) 18:04, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for collapsing it, that is probably the only sane way to look at it. The reader complaints over time have always been that the category is an incomprehensible mess, in which it is impossible to navigate, which is true. I started out thinking that
Category:Linux distributions should contain only articles that are about actual Linux distributions (ie
Lubuntu,
Debian,
Puppy Linux, etc) and that all the sub-cats should be moved to other parent cats or just deleted, as applicable. This would result in
Category:Linux distributions at least becoming a useful listing of all the articles that we have on actual Linux distributions that readers could use to find Linux distributions. Right now it is not useful to anyone. The main issue is what to do with all the sub-cats, a few of which may be useful but need moving under a new parent cat and which ones can just be deleted. So
which of these subcategories would you want to have removed (merged/deleted) and why?
- all of them, for the reasons explained above, but I don't think it is that simple. As I noted above one editor tried to solve this larger issue issue by creating Category:All Linux Distributions (since deleted) as just a pure, navigable list of Linux distributions and put all the articles actually on Linux distributions in it. It was not a bad concept, but it was a flawed execution, as it just created more muddle within the category, not to mention not conforming to normal category naming. It would be almost ideal to just simply add the individual articles on Linux distributions directly to Category:Linux distributions, to create a list there, but that would mean that most of them would be in both parent and child categories at the same time. Would it be acceptable to invoke WP:DUPCAT and do just that? - Ahunt ( talk) 23:12, 27 June 2021 (UTC)
- In order to get rid of subcategories you need to nominate them for merger/deletion and state a reason that the subcategory is undesirable, e.g. per one of the reasons stated in WP:OCAT. For example you might nominate Category:State-sponsored Linux distributions because being state-sponsored is not a defining characteristic of Linux distributions. You can also bundle a few subcategories in one nomination if the same reason applies to them. However, just not liking subcategories in general is not a sufficient reason of course. With that said, I think this discussion can be closed. Marcocapelle ( talk) 05:48, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- As noted above I am not nominating any cats for deletion, I am looking for input and hopefully ultimately some consensus on how this can all be reorganized so it has some logical consistency and thus be of some value to readers. It is an open-ended question and one that is a much bigger issue than just nominating a couple of cats for deletion. It requires a higher level view and some useful suggestions on how to reorganize it all. So, yes, unless someone can provide that high-level view of the issue and make some useful suggestions on how to address this long-identified issue, then, I agree, we may as well close this discussion here. - Ahunt ( talk) 12:52, 28 June 2021 (UTC)
- If that's what you're looking for, then you need to start a discussion on the talk page at Wikipedia:WikiProject Linux. CFD is not the place to discuss how to reorganize a category tree, it's the place to bring a completed proposal after the discussion has already been hashed out by a WikiProject. Bearcat ( talk) 04:26, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Thanks for collapsing it, that is probably the only sane way to look at it. The reader complaints over time have always been that the category is an incomprehensible mess, in which it is impossible to navigate, which is true. I started out thinking that
Category:Linux distributions should contain only articles that are about actual Linux distributions (ie
Lubuntu,
Debian,
Puppy Linux, etc) and that all the sub-cats should be moved to other parent cats or just deleted, as applicable. This would result in
Category:Linux distributions at least becoming a useful listing of all the articles that we have on actual Linux distributions that readers could use to find Linux distributions. Right now it is not useful to anyone. The main issue is what to do with all the sub-cats, a few of which may be useful but need moving under a new parent cat and which ones can just be deleted. So
- I brought it here for discussion because this is "categories for discussion", not "categories for deletion". I did start a discussion at Category talk:Linux distributions as a first step, but that resulted in no response. I had assessed starting discussions at WP:WikiProject Linux and WP:WikiProject Software, but both have been abandoned for a long time and unlikely to attract any discussion there. This venue was my last choice and has not resulted in any useful advice. If there continues to be no input I will just conclude that no one cares and come up with my own plan. - Ahunt ( talk) 12:46, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Decatur Baptist College alumni
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 July 4#Category:Decatur Baptist College alumni
Category:Locomotives that appeared in Chuggington
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete ( non-admin closure) Marcocapelle ( talk) 16:47, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Chuggington is a children's TV series, the merits of which I am not here to discuss. The pages in this category each mention Chuggington once ( EMD FT doesn't mention it at all), always in an "In fiction" section where it merits only a brief unsourced sentence. This is a case of WP:TRIVIALCAT, also WP:NONDEFINING. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 09:37, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete The show has definite merit but this is clear WP:PERFCAT for the locomotives. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 19:19, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Please note that the category has been depopulated out-of-process by Green Shy Guy 54 ( talk · contribs). Althogh the category is now empty, that will not make it eligible for WP:CSD#C1. -- Redrose64 🌹 ( talk) 07:50, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Fortune 40 Under 40 recipients
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete. ✗ plicit 02:06, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:OCAWARD, this honor from a single magazine is not defining for a notable biography. User:Namiba 02:20, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:29, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete Getting 1/40th of an article is not defining. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 19:20, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per WP:TOPTEN, not WP:OCAWARD. — HTGS ( talk) 07:26, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:Greek suffixes
Relisted, see
Wikipedia:Categories for discussion/Log/2021 July 23#Category:Greek suffixes
Category:DEFCON 2 conflicts
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete.
✗
plicit 02:06, 23 July 2021 (UTC)
- Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:DEFCON
- Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:DEFCON 2 conflicts
- Propose Deleting/Listifying Category:DEFCON 3 conflicts
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING ( WP:TRIVIALCAT) and WP:GLOBAL
- DEFCON (defense readiness condition) is an alert state used by the U.S. military where lower numbers are more serious and "1" would be for a nuclear war. These categories rate different world conflicts on that U.S. scale like the Yom Kippur War, Korean axe murder incident, Gulf War, and September 11 attacks. The main problem here is that these were often global conflicts and other countries have their own systems: the UK had BIKINI color codes, France uses the Vigipirate color codes, and South Korea uses the WATCHCON number codes (which do not align to DEFCON).
- If we built out this alert state tree beyond the American categories, we'd end up with a whole bunch of color and number category clutter for articles about military conflicts. The current category contents are already listified right here in the main article for any reader interested in the topic. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:46, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. Marcocapelle ( talk) 07:38, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete. Conflicts are already listed in the article. -- choster ( talk) 21:16, 29 June 2021 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
Category:DeKalb County-Fulton County, Georgia (U.S. state) in fiction
- The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.
- The result of the discussion was: delete (
non-admin closure)
Marcocapelle (
talk) 16:48, 4 July 2021 (UTC)
- Propose Deleting Category:Fictional characters from DeKalb County-Fulton County
- Nominator's rationale: Per WP:NONDEFINING ( WP:OCLOCATION & WP:OVERLAPCAT) and WP:V
- For background, Atlanta, Georgia (U.S state) is partly in DeKalb County and partly in Fulton County. The only thing in this tree is Category:Fictional characters from Atlanta which is already well parented, albeit it not by county. I don't care how many Star Trek re-runs you watch or how many DC Comics you read, you're never going to figure out which side of the county line Dr. Leonard McCoy or Damage are from, which I guess is why these cats are for both counties. - RevelationDirect ( talk) 00:46, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- Delete per nom. The Living love talk 16:52, 26 June 2021 (UTC)
- The above is preserved as an archive of the discussion. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the category's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this section.