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So I propose we set a new standard for naming of image pages, to title them "Lists and galleries of X". I would also be fine with: "Galleries and lists of X".
Support as nom. - jc37 00:02, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment wouldn't a gallery also be a form of list? --
70.49.127.65 (
talk) 03:40, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
No. A list on Wikipedia is a listing of items related in some way.
A gallery is a technical way to display images.
Compare to the difference between looking at a listing of offices in a building directory and going to view paintings at the local art gallery. - jc37 20:48, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
But if you're at the real estate office, you can get a pictoral list of offices, where a prominent photo of the office is shown, and a description next to it, so would still be a list. And the way our galleryview works, it's just like iconview list for files in a directory. --
70.49.127.65 (
talk) 04:33, 8 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Icon view could be considered a gallery, as opposed to list view. The concepts are different. - jc37 04:14, 11 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Buddhist temple stubs
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Nominator's rationale: While trying to fill this category, I ran across
Category:Buddhist monastery stubs, which defines itself as being for monasteries, temples and nunneries. And the monastery category is not overflowing. Is it worth differentiating between monasteries / nunneries and temples? Propose deleting the temple category for now. I could see keeping the temple tag if its worth distinguishing, but upmerge until the tag is used on more than 60 articles. My fear here is that many of the buildings will serve as both a temple and monastery. Not sure its worth the resulting amount of double-tagging.
Dawynn (
talk) 14:48, 20 February 2012 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Black Falcon(
talk) 22:00, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
I am not a Buddhist, nor informed as to customs for that religion. My original comments may be way off-base. Would it be appropriate to also upmerge to
Category:Buddhist monastery stubs? (Stubs may be upmerged to, at most, 3 different categories)
Upmerge as Dawynn suggests for now. The category is currently too small. If we get a lot more stubs in the future recreation may be worthwhile.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 14:25, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Projects by Van Oord
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The result of the discussion was:delete. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 06:04, 16 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: We do not categorise performances by performer, which is, in fact, essentially what this is, just with 'buildings by builder' as the terms in question.
The BushrangerOne ping only 21:09, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
SupportWhen I saw this in another category up for renaming I had questions about the logic behind it. I find your reason for deletion to be sound and a good fit.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 21:50, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Jacobean architecture in Virginia
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The result of the discussion was:keep as part of multiple hierarchies. Although a rename was also suggested to include "-style", this is not followed in other sub-cats of
Category:American architectural styles except where necessary for clarity/disambiguation. –
FayenaticLondon 17:00, 4 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I guess the question there is how many articles do you need in the parent to start creating subcategories? Right now in the tree we have a total of 10 articles. That for me is not screaming to split this out. Yet.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 23:06, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
I agree and I'm willing to withdraw (or oppose, I suppose) - note to self, caffinate better! -
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:22, 23 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Pro-Iranism
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Nominator's rationale:Delete This category presents the same problems as
Category:Antagonists of the United States which is being debated
here. It is excessively broad, imprecise in its definition and simplistic. There's no clear objective criterion to decide if an individual (or a newspaper or a country) is pro-Iran. Take David Duke for example. His antisemitism gets him invitations to give speeches in Syria and Iran but I don't think it's reasonable to classify him (and every other prominent antisemite) as pro-Iran. Another concern is that the scope is presumably unlimited in time: alliances change, governments change.
Pichpich (
talk) 11:43, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
delete. Categories like this need to be based on criteria using WP:RS. The implication that there is something remarkable about support for a particular sovereign state is POV, unless it is proposed to have similar categories for every country.
SamuelTheGhost (
talk) 13:06, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
remark As noted below, there ARE sold categories, in particular for and against Jews and Israel, as well as other ethnic groups, religions and nations, like zionist, Islamist, muslim, islamophobic, etc. Many press outlets go to considerable effort to identify persons and organizations which support Israel and identify them as enemies of the United States and the world, yet there are very few resources in wikipedia that would aid in identifying similar groups and persons who are supporting the interests of Iran. For a neutral POV in the conflict between Israel and Iran, entries corresponding to Iran for which there exist entries for Jews and Israel should not be deleted, and calls to delete Iran-related categories, but not zionism / jewish categories would be enforces a one-sided POV.
Redhanker (
talk) 16:28, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
keep There are similar categories for anti-semitism and anti-zionism and racism which are considered to be worth noting, as David Duke has already been noted. For some reason, alliances towards Iran may or are being suppressed to hide these associations. Iran is quite vocal about pointing out being for or against Jews, Zionists or Israel, but far less attention is paid to whether persons or groups are for or against Iran. There are also categories for anti-Iran. If this category is to be deleted, then all categories against nations or ethnic / religious groups must also be deleted, and phenomena such as anti-semitism and racism are not valid either. There is currently no category that would be useful in establishing whether a person or nations is favorable towards Iran, and given international security concerns about Iran, such associations are important to note. Nobody has problems associating Duke with neo-nazis or white nationalist groups, why not his support for Palestine and muslim and Iran rights?
Redhanker (
talk) 16:23, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
No, this has nothing to do with anit-semitism or anti-Zionism. Zionism is the ideology of forming a homeland for the Jews out of some or all of Palestine. Iran is not an ideology, it is a country. Supporting Iran has meant many things at many times. The United States was an ally of Iran from 1955-1975 at the same time as being the staunchest worldwide supporter of Israel. Your plan indicates a desire to make wikipedia hopelessly presentist in nature.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 14:31, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Good explanation of the issue, JPL. Will !vote below. -
DePiep (
talk) 20:21, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Far too problematic (and simplistic) for the reaons he outlines.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 03:17, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete this category conflates alliance with a country for some sort of political ideaology. Since the United States was one of the staunchest allies of Iran from 1955-1975 until the United States is put in this category it will be incomplete. One problem with these categories is if properly filled they will include most world-powers. If we allow categories like this to proliferate soon we will have a situation where the United States is in 50 such categories based on its strong association with various allies.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 14:28, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete. Indeed, as JPL explained above, tagging an article "pro-Iran" is fuzzyness. And OR. -
DePiep (
talk) 20:21, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Toxotes
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The result of the discussion was:rename to the common name
Category:Archerfish. One rename or the other is required to remove ambiguity. There are many precedents against scientific names. The case for using the scientific name for the genus is particularly weak here as the head category for the family
Category:Toxotidae contains only this genus and no other species. –
FayenaticLondon 17:55, 4 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Not all biological categorization in WP is by genus. I oppose categorizing by genus when the genus itself redirects to an article that uses the common name.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 00:54, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
(replying re: all) But that leads to the categories having a mish-mash of common and scientific names, which doesn't help the readers. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 01:08, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Nor is it helpful to readers to have category names that are different than article names. In any case, we already do have a mish-mash of both—quite an extensive mish-mash, if you have a look. There are entire trees for taxonomic name and entire trees for common names. Genera that have common names usually have categories named after the common name, as do the articles. That's a straightfoward application of
WP:COMMONNAME as far as I am concerned. A huge proportion of these genera categories were created in 2007 by a bot that was using names from wikicommons and thus clearly didn't really know what it was doing in the WP context. Using the common name seems to conform with the guidelines of
WP:FAUNA.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 01:55, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
The trouble is, what happens when you come across some that don't have common names? -
The BushrangerOne ping only 06:08, 11 July 2012 (UTC)reply
The guideline says "Use the most common name when possible". If it has no common name, then it's not possible to use a common name. How is this a problem? It establishes a default to use if it is possible to do so.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 22:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)reply
The problem is that that creates a scenario where some categories are using one naming format (the common (or English, to avoid
confusion) name), and others are using another naming format (the scientfic (or Latin) name), when it's entirely possible to have them all on a single format instead. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 23:02, 11 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Yes! I see what you mean now. And there are already two separate trees for fauna—one by classification and one by common name. It's not like my suggestion is creating a new scheme—this is a pre-existing issue. I agree that it is a bit of a problem, but I don't think at this stage it is an easy one to solve. It does back to the fact that there was a bot in 2007 that created most of the taxonomic categories (masses of them), and it was done without consultation or much foresight.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 01:52, 12 July 2012 (UTC)reply
A trout to the botter to be sure, but there is an easy way to solve - rename all to the scientific classification, which is consistent across all languages, used worldwide even within languages (for instance, American and Europeans have very different birds in mind when they speak of "buzzards"!), and creates uniform, encyclopedic, professional category trees instead of "mix-and-match specials". -
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. There is no good reason to not use the article name here.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:53, 9 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Aside from the fact that having mixed English and Latin names for categories in the same tree is potentially confusing and somewhat unprofessional in appearance? -
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose per Bushranger. The names of categories ought to be consistently named within the same tree, i.e keep the name scientific. This rename doesn't improve anything.
WP:COMMONNAME only applies to articles.
Brad7777 (
talk) 16:43, 1 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment I am not convinced that common name rules only apply to article names. What is clear is that in general, categories should have the same name as the articles on the same subject, although there are exceptions.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 18:06, 3 August 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Coris
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The result of the discussion was:rename to
Category:Coris (genus) This would be the only category in its hierarchy to have a non-scientific name, so the rationale for changing seems weaker than some others. A discussion on when it is appropriate to use the common name would be helpful.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 02:09, 5 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Not all biological categorization in WP is by genus. I oppose categorizing by genus when the genus itself redirects to an article that uses the common name. This seems to be in line with the guidelines of
WP:FAUNA.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 00:53, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. There is no reason to not use the article name here.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:54, 9 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose The names of categories ought to be consistently named within the same tree, i.e keep the name scientific. This rename doesn't improve anything.
WP:COMMONNAME only applies to articles.
Brad7777 (
talk) 16:46, 1 August 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kiunga
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Nominator's rationale:Rename.
Kiunga is ambiguous. There is no article about the genus Kiunga, which this category is about.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 10:09, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Hatnote templates for names
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The result of the discussion was:reverse merge.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 02:09, 5 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Mostly redundant. Though
Category:Surname clarification templates says it includes non-hatnote templates, the only such member is
Template:Patronymic which is actually a cleanup template and probably should be removed anyway. (Note that there is
no consensus whether or not this is a proper use of hatnotes.)
Paul_012 (
talk) 09:59, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Keep. They are hatnotes by
WP:HATNOTE. The category name "Hatnotes ..." is the only association that lists them as hatnotes. So they are nicely and correctly in the big hatnote listing. How otherwise could one find a hatnote? The fact that they are in a different category too is irrelevant for the hatnote grouping (it is just another independent property). Maybe the Category:Surname clarification templates could be merged. I note that the discussed usage of these as a hatnote is not related to this proposal. -
DePiep (
talk) 10:12, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Keep / reverse merge per above. - jc37 02:29, 31 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Genets
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The result of the discussion was:rename. In the carnivore categories, there are some that are English and some Latin. It's not clear that the other definition of genet could cause confusion, but since the parenthetical is in the article title, there's no reason it shouldn't be in the category name.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 02:09, 5 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I assume that if the main part of the article name (the part not in parentheses) is pluralized, so too must the disambiguating term be pluralized if it refers to the entire main part of the name. I suppose it doesn't really matter and could go either way.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 00:51, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Not all biological categorization in WP is by genus. I oppose categorizing by genus when the genus itself redirects to an article that uses the common name.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 00:52, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
WP:FAUNA,
WP:FLORA, &
WP:BIRDS give the varying naming conventions. In this case, WP:FAUNA applies and the convention is name after the common name, if possible.
Beeswaxcandle (
talk) 08:52, 8 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Then
WP:FAUNA needs to be modified, as it is creating extremely unprofessional mish-mashes of Latin and English category names. It should apply to articles as "common name preferred" to be sure, but categories? No. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:42, 16 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. This is the English wikipedia, not the Latin one.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:56, 9 July 2012 (UTC)reply
However this is also an encyclopedia, and encyclopedias should be professional. Mixing and matching scientific and common names in the same category tree is neither encyclopedic or professional-looking. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:42, 16 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Harriers
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Purge and rename to
Category:Geranospiza. The category currently duplicates the list at
Harrier (bird); while categories and lists can coexist, in this case I believe "being a harrier" to be insufficently defining to categorise as such. However, there is currently no category for
Geranospiza; it would fit the
WP:SMALLCAT exemption as part of the established family>subfamily>genus scheme, despite being, after purging, a single-article category (
Crane Hawk). -
The BushrangerOne ping only 22:20, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Most harriers are genus Circus, not Geranospiza. The Crane Hawk is the only species of Geranospiza. There are two species of harrier in Polyboroides. That's why is preferable to have a category for harriers in general, so it can contain members of all three genera. (You are right that that simply reproduces the list at
Harrier (bird), but that's pretty much what every category does that is named after a genus—it categories the species that are listed on the article about the genera. There are thousands of such categories right now, most originally created by a bot.) In this case, there is also
Category:Polyboroides, so if it's really needed, we could have other subcategories named
Category:Geranospiza and
Category:Circus (genus).
Good Ol’factory(talk) 01:43, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. The categorization works, the naming is inprecise.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:57, 9 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:A-League derbies
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. This category contains articles that refer to rivalries in general, not just derbies.
Hack (
talk) 05:24, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment -- Does not the category need some more description as to what it is about. This this Australasian competition really the only thing that uses the title "A-league"?.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 22:27, 10 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:English List A limited-overs cricketers
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Nominator's rationale: The category has only one article in it,
List of Middlesex CCC List A cricketers, and no names of individual cricketers. Hence the names of English List A limited-overs cricketers should be transferred to a list, as a more suitable format for them. Only c48 names in the list of c160 names have an article about them.
Hugo999 (
talk) 02:25, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Agree with nom The contents are a list, not a category. --
WOSlinker (
talk) 06:50, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Books about parenting
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I created the category. I am neutral on the move proposal; either way is fine with me.
Binksternet (
talk) 01:35, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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So I propose we set a new standard for naming of image pages, to title them "Lists and galleries of X". I would also be fine with: "Galleries and lists of X".
Support as nom. - jc37 00:02, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment wouldn't a gallery also be a form of list? --
70.49.127.65 (
talk) 03:40, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
No. A list on Wikipedia is a listing of items related in some way.
A gallery is a technical way to display images.
Compare to the difference between looking at a listing of offices in a building directory and going to view paintings at the local art gallery. - jc37 20:48, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
But if you're at the real estate office, you can get a pictoral list of offices, where a prominent photo of the office is shown, and a description next to it, so would still be a list. And the way our galleryview works, it's just like iconview list for files in a directory. --
70.49.127.65 (
talk) 04:33, 8 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Icon view could be considered a gallery, as opposed to list view. The concepts are different. - jc37 04:14, 11 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Buddhist temple stubs
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Nominator's rationale: While trying to fill this category, I ran across
Category:Buddhist monastery stubs, which defines itself as being for monasteries, temples and nunneries. And the monastery category is not overflowing. Is it worth differentiating between monasteries / nunneries and temples? Propose deleting the temple category for now. I could see keeping the temple tag if its worth distinguishing, but upmerge until the tag is used on more than 60 articles. My fear here is that many of the buildings will serve as both a temple and monastery. Not sure its worth the resulting amount of double-tagging.
Dawynn (
talk) 14:48, 20 February 2012 (UTC)reply
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion so a clearer consensus may be reached.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, -- Black Falcon(
talk) 22:00, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
I am not a Buddhist, nor informed as to customs for that religion. My original comments may be way off-base. Would it be appropriate to also upmerge to
Category:Buddhist monastery stubs? (Stubs may be upmerged to, at most, 3 different categories)
Upmerge as Dawynn suggests for now. The category is currently too small. If we get a lot more stubs in the future recreation may be worthwhile.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 14:25, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Projects by Van Oord
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The result of the discussion was:delete. -- Black Falcon(
talk) 06:04, 16 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: We do not categorise performances by performer, which is, in fact, essentially what this is, just with 'buildings by builder' as the terms in question.
The BushrangerOne ping only 21:09, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
SupportWhen I saw this in another category up for renaming I had questions about the logic behind it. I find your reason for deletion to be sound and a good fit.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 21:50, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Jacobean architecture in Virginia
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The result of the discussion was:keep as part of multiple hierarchies. Although a rename was also suggested to include "-style", this is not followed in other sub-cats of
Category:American architectural styles except where necessary for clarity/disambiguation. –
FayenaticLondon 17:00, 4 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I guess the question there is how many articles do you need in the parent to start creating subcategories? Right now in the tree we have a total of 10 articles. That for me is not screaming to split this out. Yet.
Vegaswikian (
talk) 23:06, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
I agree and I'm willing to withdraw (or oppose, I suppose) - note to self, caffinate better! -
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:22, 23 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Pro-Iranism
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Nominator's rationale:Delete This category presents the same problems as
Category:Antagonists of the United States which is being debated
here. It is excessively broad, imprecise in its definition and simplistic. There's no clear objective criterion to decide if an individual (or a newspaper or a country) is pro-Iran. Take David Duke for example. His antisemitism gets him invitations to give speeches in Syria and Iran but I don't think it's reasonable to classify him (and every other prominent antisemite) as pro-Iran. Another concern is that the scope is presumably unlimited in time: alliances change, governments change.
Pichpich (
talk) 11:43, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
delete. Categories like this need to be based on criteria using WP:RS. The implication that there is something remarkable about support for a particular sovereign state is POV, unless it is proposed to have similar categories for every country.
SamuelTheGhost (
talk) 13:06, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
remark As noted below, there ARE sold categories, in particular for and against Jews and Israel, as well as other ethnic groups, religions and nations, like zionist, Islamist, muslim, islamophobic, etc. Many press outlets go to considerable effort to identify persons and organizations which support Israel and identify them as enemies of the United States and the world, yet there are very few resources in wikipedia that would aid in identifying similar groups and persons who are supporting the interests of Iran. For a neutral POV in the conflict between Israel and Iran, entries corresponding to Iran for which there exist entries for Jews and Israel should not be deleted, and calls to delete Iran-related categories, but not zionism / jewish categories would be enforces a one-sided POV.
Redhanker (
talk) 16:28, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
keep There are similar categories for anti-semitism and anti-zionism and racism which are considered to be worth noting, as David Duke has already been noted. For some reason, alliances towards Iran may or are being suppressed to hide these associations. Iran is quite vocal about pointing out being for or against Jews, Zionists or Israel, but far less attention is paid to whether persons or groups are for or against Iran. There are also categories for anti-Iran. If this category is to be deleted, then all categories against nations or ethnic / religious groups must also be deleted, and phenomena such as anti-semitism and racism are not valid either. There is currently no category that would be useful in establishing whether a person or nations is favorable towards Iran, and given international security concerns about Iran, such associations are important to note. Nobody has problems associating Duke with neo-nazis or white nationalist groups, why not his support for Palestine and muslim and Iran rights?
Redhanker (
talk) 16:23, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
No, this has nothing to do with anit-semitism or anti-Zionism. Zionism is the ideology of forming a homeland for the Jews out of some or all of Palestine. Iran is not an ideology, it is a country. Supporting Iran has meant many things at many times. The United States was an ally of Iran from 1955-1975 at the same time as being the staunchest worldwide supporter of Israel. Your plan indicates a desire to make wikipedia hopelessly presentist in nature.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 14:31, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Good explanation of the issue, JPL. Will !vote below. -
DePiep (
talk) 20:21, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete per nom. Far too problematic (and simplistic) for the reaons he outlines.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 03:17, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete this category conflates alliance with a country for some sort of political ideaology. Since the United States was one of the staunchest allies of Iran from 1955-1975 until the United States is put in this category it will be incomplete. One problem with these categories is if properly filled they will include most world-powers. If we allow categories like this to proliferate soon we will have a situation where the United States is in 50 such categories based on its strong association with various allies.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 14:28, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Delete. Indeed, as JPL explained above, tagging an article "pro-Iran" is fuzzyness. And OR. -
DePiep (
talk) 20:21, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Toxotes
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:rename to the common name
Category:Archerfish. One rename or the other is required to remove ambiguity. There are many precedents against scientific names. The case for using the scientific name for the genus is particularly weak here as the head category for the family
Category:Toxotidae contains only this genus and no other species. –
FayenaticLondon 17:55, 4 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Not all biological categorization in WP is by genus. I oppose categorizing by genus when the genus itself redirects to an article that uses the common name.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 00:54, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
(replying re: all) But that leads to the categories having a mish-mash of common and scientific names, which doesn't help the readers. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 01:08, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Nor is it helpful to readers to have category names that are different than article names. In any case, we already do have a mish-mash of both—quite an extensive mish-mash, if you have a look. There are entire trees for taxonomic name and entire trees for common names. Genera that have common names usually have categories named after the common name, as do the articles. That's a straightfoward application of
WP:COMMONNAME as far as I am concerned. A huge proportion of these genera categories were created in 2007 by a bot that was using names from wikicommons and thus clearly didn't really know what it was doing in the WP context. Using the common name seems to conform with the guidelines of
WP:FAUNA.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 01:55, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
The trouble is, what happens when you come across some that don't have common names? -
The BushrangerOne ping only 06:08, 11 July 2012 (UTC)reply
The guideline says "Use the most common name when possible". If it has no common name, then it's not possible to use a common name. How is this a problem? It establishes a default to use if it is possible to do so.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 22:57, 11 July 2012 (UTC)reply
The problem is that that creates a scenario where some categories are using one naming format (the common (or English, to avoid
confusion) name), and others are using another naming format (the scientfic (or Latin) name), when it's entirely possible to have them all on a single format instead. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 23:02, 11 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Yes! I see what you mean now. And there are already two separate trees for fauna—one by classification and one by common name. It's not like my suggestion is creating a new scheme—this is a pre-existing issue. I agree that it is a bit of a problem, but I don't think at this stage it is an easy one to solve. It does back to the fact that there was a bot in 2007 that created most of the taxonomic categories (masses of them), and it was done without consultation or much foresight.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 01:52, 12 July 2012 (UTC)reply
A trout to the botter to be sure, but there is an easy way to solve - rename all to the scientific classification, which is consistent across all languages, used worldwide even within languages (for instance, American and Europeans have very different birds in mind when they speak of "buzzards"!), and creates uniform, encyclopedic, professional category trees instead of "mix-and-match specials". -
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. There is no good reason to not use the article name here.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:53, 9 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Aside from the fact that having mixed English and Latin names for categories in the same tree is potentially confusing and somewhat unprofessional in appearance? -
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:40, 16 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose per Bushranger. The names of categories ought to be consistently named within the same tree, i.e keep the name scientific. This rename doesn't improve anything.
WP:COMMONNAME only applies to articles.
Brad7777 (
talk) 16:43, 1 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment I am not convinced that common name rules only apply to article names. What is clear is that in general, categories should have the same name as the articles on the same subject, although there are exceptions.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 18:06, 3 August 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Coris
The following is an archived discussion concerning one or more categories. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on an appropriate discussion page (such as the category's
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The result of the discussion was:rename to
Category:Coris (genus) This would be the only category in its hierarchy to have a non-scientific name, so the rationale for changing seems weaker than some others. A discussion on when it is appropriate to use the common name would be helpful.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 02:09, 5 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Not all biological categorization in WP is by genus. I oppose categorizing by genus when the genus itself redirects to an article that uses the common name. This seems to be in line with the guidelines of
WP:FAUNA.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 00:53, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. There is no reason to not use the article name here.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:54, 9 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Weak oppose The names of categories ought to be consistently named within the same tree, i.e keep the name scientific. This rename doesn't improve anything.
WP:COMMONNAME only applies to articles.
Brad7777 (
talk) 16:46, 1 August 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Kiunga
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Nominator's rationale:Rename.
Kiunga is ambiguous. There is no article about the genus Kiunga, which this category is about.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 10:09, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Hatnote templates for names
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The result of the discussion was:reverse merge.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 02:09, 5 August 2012 (UTC)reply
Nominator's rationale: Mostly redundant. Though
Category:Surname clarification templates says it includes non-hatnote templates, the only such member is
Template:Patronymic which is actually a cleanup template and probably should be removed anyway. (Note that there is
no consensus whether or not this is a proper use of hatnotes.)
Paul_012 (
talk) 09:59, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Keep. They are hatnotes by
WP:HATNOTE. The category name "Hatnotes ..." is the only association that lists them as hatnotes. So they are nicely and correctly in the big hatnote listing. How otherwise could one find a hatnote? The fact that they are in a different category too is irrelevant for the hatnote grouping (it is just another independent property). Maybe the Category:Surname clarification templates could be merged. I note that the discussed usage of these as a hatnote is not related to this proposal. -
DePiep (
talk) 10:12, 7 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Keep / reverse merge per above. - jc37 02:29, 31 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Genets
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The result of the discussion was:rename. In the carnivore categories, there are some that are English and some Latin. It's not clear that the other definition of genet could cause confusion, but since the parenthetical is in the article title, there's no reason it shouldn't be in the category name.--
Mike Selinker (
talk) 02:09, 5 August 2012 (UTC)reply
I assume that if the main part of the article name (the part not in parentheses) is pluralized, so too must the disambiguating term be pluralized if it refers to the entire main part of the name. I suppose it doesn't really matter and could go either way.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 00:51, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Not all biological categorization in WP is by genus. I oppose categorizing by genus when the genus itself redirects to an article that uses the common name.
Good Ol’factory(talk) 00:52, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
WP:FAUNA,
WP:FLORA, &
WP:BIRDS give the varying naming conventions. In this case, WP:FAUNA applies and the convention is name after the common name, if possible.
Beeswaxcandle (
talk) 08:52, 8 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Then
WP:FAUNA needs to be modified, as it is creating extremely unprofessional mish-mashes of Latin and English category names. It should apply to articles as "common name preferred" to be sure, but categories? No. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:42, 16 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. This is the English wikipedia, not the Latin one.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:56, 9 July 2012 (UTC)reply
However this is also an encyclopedia, and encyclopedias should be professional. Mixing and matching scientific and common names in the same category tree is neither encyclopedic or professional-looking. -
The BushrangerOne ping only 00:42, 16 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Harriers
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Purge and rename to
Category:Geranospiza. The category currently duplicates the list at
Harrier (bird); while categories and lists can coexist, in this case I believe "being a harrier" to be insufficently defining to categorise as such. However, there is currently no category for
Geranospiza; it would fit the
WP:SMALLCAT exemption as part of the established family>subfamily>genus scheme, despite being, after purging, a single-article category (
Crane Hawk). -
The BushrangerOne ping only 22:20, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Most harriers are genus Circus, not Geranospiza. The Crane Hawk is the only species of Geranospiza. There are two species of harrier in Polyboroides. That's why is preferable to have a category for harriers in general, so it can contain members of all three genera. (You are right that that simply reproduces the list at
Harrier (bird), but that's pretty much what every category does that is named after a genus—it categories the species that are listed on the article about the genera. There are thousands of such categories right now, most originally created by a bot.) In this case, there is also
Category:Polyboroides, so if it's really needed, we could have other subcategories named
Category:Geranospiza and
Category:Circus (genus).
Good Ol’factory(talk) 01:43, 5 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Rename per nom. The categorization works, the naming is inprecise.
John Pack Lambert (
talk) 16:57, 9 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:A-League derbies
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Nominator's rationale:Rename. This category contains articles that refer to rivalries in general, not just derbies.
Hack (
talk) 05:24, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Comment -- Does not the category need some more description as to what it is about. This this Australasian competition really the only thing that uses the title "A-league"?.
Peterkingiron (
talk) 22:27, 10 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:English List A limited-overs cricketers
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Nominator's rationale: The category has only one article in it,
List of Middlesex CCC List A cricketers, and no names of individual cricketers. Hence the names of English List A limited-overs cricketers should be transferred to a list, as a more suitable format for them. Only c48 names in the list of c160 names have an article about them.
Hugo999 (
talk) 02:25, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
Agree with nom The contents are a list, not a category. --
WOSlinker (
talk) 06:50, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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Category:Books about parenting
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I created the category. I am neutral on the move proposal; either way is fine with me.
Binksternet (
talk) 01:35, 4 July 2012 (UTC)reply
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