- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Nomination withdrawn. ( non-admin closure) -- Nevé – selbert 23:54, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
Ronald Reagan (disambiguation)
- Ronald Reagan (disambiguation) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Per WP:NAMELIST, unnecessary dab page. -- Nevé – selbert 19:14, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep because there might be considerable confusion when searching for his son or for the ship -jakeg13579 19:48, 7 January 2017 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jakegrossman1 (
talk •
contribs)
- Ah, but that is a partial title match. Do we have a Rutherford B. Hayes (disambiguation) or Rutherford Hayes (disambiguation)? No, despite there being USS President Hayes named after him. With respect to his son Ron Jr., he can easily be included in the hatnote we already have at Ronald Reagan.-- Nevé – selbert 20:10, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. Harmless. Serves to list things named "Ronald Reagan". bd2412 T 20:57, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. Harmless and useful: serves to list things named "Ronald Reagan". Available for more things named "Ronald Reagan" to be added there in the future. I oppose churning of disambiguation pages. -- do ncr am 21:17, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
-
Comment: @
BD2412: Per
WP:PTM this page shouldn't exist. That's not opinion, that's policy. @
Doncram: You seem to be advocating
WP:RED.--
Nevé
–
selbert 21:48, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- "Ron" Reagan is noted in the article as formally being named "Ronald"; this is not a PTM situation. The USS Ronald Reagan can be found in sources being referred to as just "the Ronald Reagan" (see "
Monday’s tours of the Ronald Reagan will take place between 10 a.m. and 3 p.m via Yokosuka’s Mikasa Park gate"; "
The Constellation will now be replaced by the Ronald Reagan, which, in its own time, will know its share of heavy winds and rough seas"; "
Meanwhile, the Ronald Reagan, which entered service in 2003, was engaged in the Operation Tomodachi relief mission", and therefore is properly included in a disambiguation page.
bd2412
T 23:28, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Besides the junior and senior Reagan persons and besides the ship, there may be other things named Ronald Reagan which got removed previously from here because of disagreement about whether they were PTMs. It is apparent that people can disagree about whether something is a PTM that should be included or not. There are editors who are bent on removing marginal items, and then deleting the disambiguation page as a whole if the number of items on the page gets down to two, when page history and common sense show that other reasonable people know of many more items that are arguably items. The churning at the page level (trying to delete the whole disambiguation page) is bad. So is the churning at the item level. -- do ncr am 04:34, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Proving the point that there might be other items to add, applicable to any disambiguation page, during this AFD Boleyn's edit added Ron Reagan (Florida representative) which is clearly valid. Sometimes with disambiguation pages there are shenanigans of deletionist removing items then deleting the page by administrative action without anyone else's review, or Speedy Deletion, or Prod if the Speedy fails, or then finally trying AFD. Here those shenanigans didn't happen as far as I can tell. But basically attempts to delete disambiguation pages are simply disruptive and IMO we ought to set up processes to stop them, e.g. perhaps impose bans on editors who have conducted shenanigans (not the case here). -- do ncr am 20:24, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- "Ron" Reagan is noted in the article as formally being named "Ronald"; this is not a PTM situation. The USS Ronald Reagan can be found in sources being referred to as just "the Ronald Reagan" (see "
Monday’s tours of the Ronald Reagan will take place between 10 a.m. and 3 p.m via Yokosuka’s Mikasa Park gate"; "
The Constellation will now be replaced by the Ronald Reagan, which, in its own time, will know its share of heavy winds and rough seas"; "
Meanwhile, the Ronald Reagan, which entered service in 2003, was engaged in the Operation Tomodachi relief mission", and therefore is properly included in a disambiguation page.
bd2412
T 23:28, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. There are several legitimate dab entries. Clarityfiend ( talk) 00:18, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 00:38, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep, there are other uses listed that are ambiguous., older ≠ wiser 00:56, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep: Ships usually have a redirect from their name without the "USS", "HMS" etc prefix - see Abraham Lincoln (disambiguation) for example; son would have a redirect from birth name as "firstname surname", already has one from longer form Ronald Prescott Reagan; so those two are certainly legitimate dab page entries. Pam D 10:20, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep 4 entries which clearly meet policy (Florida politician, President, his son and ship). The see also is really useful here too. Boleyn ( talk) 11:55, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep All items are plausible search terms. Ships are usually included in DAB without their prefix - not to mention his son. TheMagikCow ( talk) 17:15, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
Request withdrawn. Thanks
Boleyn for adding
Ron Reagan (Florida representative). I realise the necessity of such a disambiguation page now.--
Nevé
–
selbert 21:29, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- That's good, thank you, and then this AFD can be closed as there are no "Delete" votes. However it should not be seen as if the addition of just one item made the difference. Besides the fact that the 3 original items are valid, there are other likely "Ronald Reagan" items to be added in the future. For example films and paintings and biographical books, as suggested by contents of Abraham Lincoln (disambiguation), which PamD pointed to. In that vein, i just Googled and found my way to American Experience film "Reagan", which seems notable ...which turns out to have a Wikipedia article Reagan (film) which probably is a valid item for this disambiguation page. And there will likely be more. "There will likely be more items" is a valid argument for disambiguation pages in general. -- do ncr am 21:50, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks, Neve-selbert, for withdrawing and for the many good edits you've been making to dabs lately. Best wishes, Boleyn ( talk) 21:56, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Nomination withdrawn. ( non-admin closure) -- Nevé – selbert 23:54, 9 January 2017 (UTC)
Ronald Reagan (disambiguation)
- Ronald Reagan (disambiguation) ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log · Stats)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Per WP:NAMELIST, unnecessary dab page. -- Nevé – selbert 19:14, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep because there might be considerable confusion when searching for his son or for the ship -jakeg13579 19:48, 7 January 2017 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Jakegrossman1 (
talk •
contribs)
- Ah, but that is a partial title match. Do we have a Rutherford B. Hayes (disambiguation) or Rutherford Hayes (disambiguation)? No, despite there being USS President Hayes named after him. With respect to his son Ron Jr., he can easily be included in the hatnote we already have at Ronald Reagan.-- Nevé – selbert 20:10, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. Harmless. Serves to list things named "Ronald Reagan". bd2412 T 20:57, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. Harmless and useful: serves to list things named "Ronald Reagan". Available for more things named "Ronald Reagan" to be added there in the future. I oppose churning of disambiguation pages. -- do ncr am 21:17, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
-
Comment: @
BD2412: Per
WP:PTM this page shouldn't exist. That's not opinion, that's policy. @
Doncram: You seem to be advocating
WP:RED.--
Nevé
–
selbert 21:48, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- "Ron" Reagan is noted in the article as formally being named "Ronald"; this is not a PTM situation. The USS Ronald Reagan can be found in sources being referred to as just "the Ronald Reagan" (see "
Monday’s tours of the Ronald Reagan will take place between 10 a.m. and 3 p.m via Yokosuka’s Mikasa Park gate"; "
The Constellation will now be replaced by the Ronald Reagan, which, in its own time, will know its share of heavy winds and rough seas"; "
Meanwhile, the Ronald Reagan, which entered service in 2003, was engaged in the Operation Tomodachi relief mission", and therefore is properly included in a disambiguation page.
bd2412
T 23:28, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Besides the junior and senior Reagan persons and besides the ship, there may be other things named Ronald Reagan which got removed previously from here because of disagreement about whether they were PTMs. It is apparent that people can disagree about whether something is a PTM that should be included or not. There are editors who are bent on removing marginal items, and then deleting the disambiguation page as a whole if the number of items on the page gets down to two, when page history and common sense show that other reasonable people know of many more items that are arguably items. The churning at the page level (trying to delete the whole disambiguation page) is bad. So is the churning at the item level. -- do ncr am 04:34, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Proving the point that there might be other items to add, applicable to any disambiguation page, during this AFD Boleyn's edit added Ron Reagan (Florida representative) which is clearly valid. Sometimes with disambiguation pages there are shenanigans of deletionist removing items then deleting the page by administrative action without anyone else's review, or Speedy Deletion, or Prod if the Speedy fails, or then finally trying AFD. Here those shenanigans didn't happen as far as I can tell. But basically attempts to delete disambiguation pages are simply disruptive and IMO we ought to set up processes to stop them, e.g. perhaps impose bans on editors who have conducted shenanigans (not the case here). -- do ncr am 20:24, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- "Ron" Reagan is noted in the article as formally being named "Ronald"; this is not a PTM situation. The USS Ronald Reagan can be found in sources being referred to as just "the Ronald Reagan" (see "
Monday’s tours of the Ronald Reagan will take place between 10 a.m. and 3 p.m via Yokosuka’s Mikasa Park gate"; "
The Constellation will now be replaced by the Ronald Reagan, which, in its own time, will know its share of heavy winds and rough seas"; "
Meanwhile, the Ronald Reagan, which entered service in 2003, was engaged in the Operation Tomodachi relief mission", and therefore is properly included in a disambiguation page.
bd2412
T 23:28, 7 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep. There are several legitimate dab entries. Clarityfiend ( talk) 00:18, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Note: This debate has been included in the list of Disambiguations-related deletion discussions. Shawn in Montreal ( talk) 00:38, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep, there are other uses listed that are ambiguous., older ≠ wiser 00:56, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep: Ships usually have a redirect from their name without the "USS", "HMS" etc prefix - see Abraham Lincoln (disambiguation) for example; son would have a redirect from birth name as "firstname surname", already has one from longer form Ronald Prescott Reagan; so those two are certainly legitimate dab page entries. Pam D 10:20, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep 4 entries which clearly meet policy (Florida politician, President, his son and ship). The see also is really useful here too. Boleyn ( talk) 11:55, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Keep All items are plausible search terms. Ships are usually included in DAB without their prefix - not to mention his son. TheMagikCow ( talk) 17:15, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Request withdrawn. Thanks
Boleyn for adding
Ron Reagan (Florida representative). I realise the necessity of such a disambiguation page now.--
Nevé
–
selbert 21:29, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- That's good, thank you, and then this AFD can be closed as there are no "Delete" votes. However it should not be seen as if the addition of just one item made the difference. Besides the fact that the 3 original items are valid, there are other likely "Ronald Reagan" items to be added in the future. For example films and paintings and biographical books, as suggested by contents of Abraham Lincoln (disambiguation), which PamD pointed to. In that vein, i just Googled and found my way to American Experience film "Reagan", which seems notable ...which turns out to have a Wikipedia article Reagan (film) which probably is a valid item for this disambiguation page. And there will likely be more. "There will likely be more items" is a valid argument for disambiguation pages in general. -- do ncr am 21:50, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- Thanks, Neve-selbert, for withdrawing and for the many good edits you've been making to dabs lately. Best wishes, Boleyn ( talk) 21:56, 8 January 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.