- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo. There's consensus that this shouldn't be a stand-alone article, and there's no consensus for outright deletion, so that leaves merge as the result. If there are concerns about the photo's notability, they should be raised in another AfD. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 06:14, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
Mykhailo Korenovsky
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- Mykhailo Korenovsky ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article is mostly (entirely, actually) about his death, which is already covered extensively as part of the attack on the residential building by the Russian forces. Unfortunate event, for sure, but the article should be about the boxing coach, whose career is not covered at all and we can't be sure it was relevant at all. Bedivere ( talk) 02:43, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. (as article creator) Subject meets WP:GNG due to the multiple pieces of significant coverage in reliable sources. His death was notable, so was his funeral, so was the photo taken of his kitchen. That's three events at least.
- At first I thought this was a
WP:ONEEVENT situation and I created it as
Killing of Mykhailo Korenovsky, but consensus emerged on the talk page that a biographical style article was more appropriate, and
User:Super Dromaeosaurus moved it, which I supported. Regarding the comment
the article should be about the boxing coach..career is not covered...
there is no policy that I'm aware of that someone has to be primarily notable for their job, people can be notable for their death, or for a video they made of their family before their death, or their kitchen. It's unusual, but not a policy based reason to delete. - I could list the sources that give the significant coverage, but BBC, New York Times, Sky News, Time Magazine etc etc all cover him, so it seems not necesary to prove, when it seems so obvious.
CT55555(
talk) 02:48, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- If the article is about the person, we need details on his life. His death is already covered in the missile attack article. If the article is about the yellow kitchen, we'd need sourcing on that. Dying in a missile attack in a war isn't notable; he's no different than any other person that passed away, as he wasn't a notable boxing coach.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:24, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Exactly, several other people died during the attack and none of these have nor will have an article. Korenovsky's death is only known, barely, because of the kitchen photo. I think an article about the kitchen photo could be created eventually, where some of the content in this particular article about the boxing coach could be used. Obviously, if we can't be sure this individual is notable otherwise, this can't be kept. Bedivere ( talk) 03:32, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- If the article is about the person, we need details on his life. His death is already covered in the missile attack article. If the article is about the yellow kitchen, we'd need sourcing on that. Dying in a missile attack in a war isn't notable; he's no different than any other person that passed away, as he wasn't a notable boxing coach.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:24, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Delete he's not notable as a person, we could perhaps have an article about the kitchen photo, but I think it's adequately covered as explained in the nom. He's a non-notable boxing coach, who had he not died, would not warrant an article.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:20, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- If
Slash had not been so good at the guitar, he also wouldn't warrant one. That's not a reason to delete an article. Indeed it's the kitchen photo that went globally viral, that is actually what this article is mostly about, in my opinion, how a photo touched the hearts of so many people. That is a separate topic from the actual bombing. Just like
Alan Kurdi's death was separate from the sinking of the ship that his family were on. To delete this article is to think that the response to the photo is the same topic as the bombing, but it is not. Plenty people know of the yellow kitchen, but not the wider event. The kitchen might be more notable than the wider event. I'm even more surprised that anyone would favour deletion over merging to
2022–2023 Dnipro missile strikes which I assume was the most dramatic action anyone would advocate for here.
CT55555(
talk) 03:32, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Then create an article about the kitchen photo, not about the non-notable boxing coach who is not even the primary subject of the article, but the kitchen photo.
Bedivere (
talk) 03:33, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Please note that I created an event article, which someone else changed into this biographical article. I created an article about an event, not a biography. I'm OK with the change, but before you tell me what to do, please note what I actually did do.
CT55555(
talk) 03:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I did not mean to be rude, @
CT55555. Please excuse me if it read like that.
Bedivere (
talk) 03:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- You have proposed to delete three things that I've started in less than an hour, and then you tell me what to do...to be transparent, this chain of events is not filling me with joy.
- Moving on...what do you think an article about the yellow kitchen should be titled? That was my starting point, but all roads I took lead here. I feel strongly that the yellow kitchen photo and the global response to it was a significant moment in human history, exactly how it is presented matters less. CT55555( talk) 03:51, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I did not mean to be rude, @
CT55555. Please excuse me if it read like that.
Bedivere (
talk) 03:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- AfD is not clean-up. We have three non-notable articles that could be incorporated into another article. We're here discussing each individually, hopefully to keep some information about this event and the people involved.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:49, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I'm thinking that photo might be up for a Pulitzer Prize or something similar, it seems to have struck a chord with people. Like the photo of the girl running naked from the fire bombing in Vietnam, it just seems to catch a certain time and place in the war.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:51, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Yes. I added it below.
Phan Thi Kim Phuc photographed by
Nick Ut during the
Vietnam War
CT55555(
talk) 04:06, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I don't want to go all
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS but this is a great comparison point and I note that the solution for the above was an article on the person, which exists simultaneous to the event article (the war) and the photographer's article. I hope you all might be sympathetic for lean towards consistency in how the encyclopaedia has dealt with pervious notable war photos.
CT55555(
talk) 04:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Let's keep things in perspective. This is nowhere being as notable as the Vietnam photo. It might be in the future, we don't know. But just because other stuff exists (as per the page you linked, actually) doesn't mean this one should exist. I am all for keeping only an article about the photo, merging the boxer and photographer articles, as long as the photo is considered notable by other users. Bedivere ( talk) 11:11, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I don't want to go all
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS but this is a great comparison point and I note that the solution for the above was an article on the person, which exists simultaneous to the event article (the war) and the photographer's article. I hope you all might be sympathetic for lean towards consistency in how the encyclopaedia has dealt with pervious notable war photos.
CT55555(
talk) 04:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Yes. I added it below.
Phan Thi Kim Phuc photographed by
Nick Ut during the
Vietnam War
CT55555(
talk) 04:06, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I'm thinking that photo might be up for a Pulitzer Prize or something similar, it seems to have struck a chord with people. Like the photo of the girl running naked from the fire bombing in Vietnam, it just seems to catch a certain time and place in the war.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:51, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Please note that I created an event article, which someone else changed into this biographical article. I created an article about an event, not a biography. I'm OK with the change, but before you tell me what to do, please note what I actually did do.
CT55555(
talk) 03:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Then create an article about the kitchen photo, not about the non-notable boxing coach who is not even the primary subject of the article, but the kitchen photo.
Bedivere (
talk) 03:33, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- If
Slash had not been so good at the guitar, he also wouldn't warrant one. That's not a reason to delete an article. Indeed it's the kitchen photo that went globally viral, that is actually what this article is mostly about, in my opinion, how a photo touched the hearts of so many people. That is a separate topic from the actual bombing. Just like
Alan Kurdi's death was separate from the sinking of the ship that his family were on. To delete this article is to think that the response to the photo is the same topic as the bombing, but it is not. Plenty people know of the yellow kitchen, but not the wider event. The kitchen might be more notable than the wider event. I'm even more surprised that anyone would favour deletion over merging to
2022–2023 Dnipro missile strikes which I assume was the most dramatic action anyone would advocate for here.
CT55555(
talk) 03:32, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- From
Wikipedia:Deletion is not cleanup
in a nutshell: If an article on a notable subject can be improved through normal editing, do not put it through a deletion discussion.
I agree strongly. CT55555( talk) 03:53, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- From
Wikipedia:Deletion is not cleanup
- Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. CT55555( talk) 04:27, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Boxing, and Ukraine. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 11:56, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - outside of his death, there is no notability. Onel5969 TT me 04:02, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete only marginally notable for one event. Very little mention of this person or photograph since it first went viral and any conjecture about future Pulitzers is WP:CRYSTALBALL and outside of the scope of this biographical article anyway. Vladimir.copic ( talk) 00:54, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. Since the recent comment above, I have added an early life and education section, a career section, and a family life section. New coverage is ongoing with the most recent coverage being today. I think assessments of this article made before this comment are now out of date.
CT55555(
talk) 01:22, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for making some improvements. I still think it should be merged into an eventual article about the photograph.
Bedivere (
talk) 01:33, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- While I still argue to keep, I'm concerned that the content will be lost, so have created Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo to enable the editors who want this kept, but as a photo article, to have a merge target. cc @ Oaktree b CT55555( talk) 01:53, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for making some improvements. I still think it should be merged into an eventual article about the photograph.
Bedivere (
talk) 01:33, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to consider Merger to Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:38, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, this is a BIO1E situation where even the more newsworthy photo may not qualify for a page based on SUSTAINED. The DUE content is already covered elsewhere. JoelleJay ( talk) 07:10, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Merge introduction and Death and Aftermath to Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo, removing the irrelevant personal background. Many references in reliable sources, so it does seem notable. (Note: I strongly prefer the name Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo to the original Killing of Mykhailo Korenovsky title.) Radzy0 ( talk) 19:02, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Merge As an WP:ATD, due to the current topic not meeting WP:BIO1E. MrsSnoozyTurtle 02:46, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Just reaffirming my deletion vote above as I am not sure that
Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo even passes
WP:GNG when you look at the sources more closely. Sources are mainly about the event rather than the photograph.
Vladimir.copic (
talk) 23:53, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
- Request to closing admin (or indeed anyone) for advice on the circular problem I'm faced with. This was an event article. The comment above suggests agreement that there is potential for an event article. But an editor unilaterally changed the original version of the article we are discussing here away from Killing of Mykhailo Korenovsky to this current title. Then people said he is not notable, but the photograph is, so I create the photograph article. Now it is suggested that the photograph is not notable, but the event that created it is. That's full circle. The range of opinions here seem all be editors who think something is notable, maybe the person, maybe the photograph, maybe the event. I wouldn't mind much if we could reach consensus on which one is and direct everything there, but I fear the theme here is people focussing on what they want to delete, implying something should be kept, but without consensus on what, please can we all agree not to delete everything?
- Maybe this would have been a more productive discussion if the three simultaneous deletion discussions were done on the one page.
CT55555(
talk) 00:01, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- To clarify, I think nothing and no one related to this photograph/event is notable and the topic falls into
WP:NOTNEWS. Maybe it will become notable over time - who knows - but it isn't now. Creating multiple articles to try and get this covered on WP doesn't seem very productive.
Vladimir.copic (
talk) 00:06, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- Of course, three articles about the same thing are more than needed. One, if any, would suffice and that's the kitchen photo article.
Bedivere (
talk) 00:09, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- For the record, one is a detailed biography of a photographer with years of press coverage for about four notable events. One is the biography of a man, that I do agree was better suited as an event article. One is about a photograph, that I was encouraged to create , earlier in the AFD. I see overlap between the event and the photograph article, the suggestion that
Yan Dobronosov is only notable for one photograph, when reliable sources have documented his years-long interesting career, I find difficult to leave unchallenged.
CT55555(
talk) 00:21, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- I did encourage you to create the kitchen photo article and have not suggested it to be deleted, but others may find it is a possibility. I do think Dobronosov is not sufficiently notable and as I have previously told you in their own AFD, we do not have to agree on this.
Bedivere (
talk) 01:56, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry for my error. You
proposed to delete the photo, not the article about the photo.
CT55555(
talk) 02:04, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- I did propose the photo for deletion before the article was created (and where inclusion is valid), because I don't think the fair use rationales for their use on the boxing coach and the photographer article are correct. It will not be deleted (as long as the photo article remains live). Bedivere ( talk) 02:12, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry for my error. You
proposed to delete the photo, not the article about the photo.
CT55555(
talk) 02:04, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- I did encourage you to create the kitchen photo article and have not suggested it to be deleted, but others may find it is a possibility. I do think Dobronosov is not sufficiently notable and as I have previously told you in their own AFD, we do not have to agree on this.
Bedivere (
talk) 01:56, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- For the record, one is a detailed biography of a photographer with years of press coverage for about four notable events. One is the biography of a man, that I do agree was better suited as an event article. One is about a photograph, that I was encouraged to create , earlier in the AFD. I see overlap between the event and the photograph article, the suggestion that
Yan Dobronosov is only notable for one photograph, when reliable sources have documented his years-long interesting career, I find difficult to leave unchallenged.
CT55555(
talk) 00:21, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- Of course, three articles about the same thing are more than needed. One, if any, would suffice and that's the kitchen photo article.
Bedivere (
talk) 00:09, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- To clarify, I think nothing and no one related to this photograph/event is notable and the topic falls into
WP:NOTNEWS. Maybe it will become notable over time - who knows - but it isn't now. Creating multiple articles to try and get this covered on WP doesn't seem very productive.
Vladimir.copic (
talk) 00:06, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Sorry to relist again but I'm not seeing a consensus except for a majority of editors who think some part of this event/photo/person is notable. That is why I suggested considering a Merge. I wish I could wave my hand and bundle all three articles into one AFD but that is not possible at this point.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:06, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I've been following this discussion and I'll admit I have mixed feelings about the various articles that have been mentioned. I really don't think that Korenovsky has done anything that would merit a standalone article--I see no SNG that is met nor do I think the coverage of him meets WP:GNG. All deaths are tragic, but most fall under WP:NOTNEWS. There have been plenty of pictures from the invasion of Ukraine which generate a range of emotions, but I don't know which of them will stand the test of time in terms of historical significance--which is what I think WP:NEVENT is about. Papaursa ( talk) 11:24, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
- Merge to article on the photograph. Doesn't seem to meet GNG, but an article on the photograph might be okay. -- Patar knight - chat/ contributions 05:12, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was merge to Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo. There's consensus that this shouldn't be a stand-alone article, and there's no consensus for outright deletion, so that leaves merge as the result. If there are concerns about the photo's notability, they should be raised in another AfD. Extraordinary Writ ( talk) 06:14, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
Mykhailo Korenovsky
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- Mykhailo Korenovsky ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
Article is mostly (entirely, actually) about his death, which is already covered extensively as part of the attack on the residential building by the Russian forces. Unfortunate event, for sure, but the article should be about the boxing coach, whose career is not covered at all and we can't be sure it was relevant at all. Bedivere ( talk) 02:43, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Keep. (as article creator) Subject meets WP:GNG due to the multiple pieces of significant coverage in reliable sources. His death was notable, so was his funeral, so was the photo taken of his kitchen. That's three events at least.
- At first I thought this was a
WP:ONEEVENT situation and I created it as
Killing of Mykhailo Korenovsky, but consensus emerged on the talk page that a biographical style article was more appropriate, and
User:Super Dromaeosaurus moved it, which I supported. Regarding the comment
the article should be about the boxing coach..career is not covered...
there is no policy that I'm aware of that someone has to be primarily notable for their job, people can be notable for their death, or for a video they made of their family before their death, or their kitchen. It's unusual, but not a policy based reason to delete. - I could list the sources that give the significant coverage, but BBC, New York Times, Sky News, Time Magazine etc etc all cover him, so it seems not necesary to prove, when it seems so obvious.
CT55555(
talk) 02:48, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- If the article is about the person, we need details on his life. His death is already covered in the missile attack article. If the article is about the yellow kitchen, we'd need sourcing on that. Dying in a missile attack in a war isn't notable; he's no different than any other person that passed away, as he wasn't a notable boxing coach.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:24, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Exactly, several other people died during the attack and none of these have nor will have an article. Korenovsky's death is only known, barely, because of the kitchen photo. I think an article about the kitchen photo could be created eventually, where some of the content in this particular article about the boxing coach could be used. Obviously, if we can't be sure this individual is notable otherwise, this can't be kept. Bedivere ( talk) 03:32, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- If the article is about the person, we need details on his life. His death is already covered in the missile attack article. If the article is about the yellow kitchen, we'd need sourcing on that. Dying in a missile attack in a war isn't notable; he's no different than any other person that passed away, as he wasn't a notable boxing coach.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:24, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Delete he's not notable as a person, we could perhaps have an article about the kitchen photo, but I think it's adequately covered as explained in the nom. He's a non-notable boxing coach, who had he not died, would not warrant an article.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:20, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- If
Slash had not been so good at the guitar, he also wouldn't warrant one. That's not a reason to delete an article. Indeed it's the kitchen photo that went globally viral, that is actually what this article is mostly about, in my opinion, how a photo touched the hearts of so many people. That is a separate topic from the actual bombing. Just like
Alan Kurdi's death was separate from the sinking of the ship that his family were on. To delete this article is to think that the response to the photo is the same topic as the bombing, but it is not. Plenty people know of the yellow kitchen, but not the wider event. The kitchen might be more notable than the wider event. I'm even more surprised that anyone would favour deletion over merging to
2022–2023 Dnipro missile strikes which I assume was the most dramatic action anyone would advocate for here.
CT55555(
talk) 03:32, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Then create an article about the kitchen photo, not about the non-notable boxing coach who is not even the primary subject of the article, but the kitchen photo.
Bedivere (
talk) 03:33, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Please note that I created an event article, which someone else changed into this biographical article. I created an article about an event, not a biography. I'm OK with the change, but before you tell me what to do, please note what I actually did do.
CT55555(
talk) 03:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I did not mean to be rude, @
CT55555. Please excuse me if it read like that.
Bedivere (
talk) 03:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- You have proposed to delete three things that I've started in less than an hour, and then you tell me what to do...to be transparent, this chain of events is not filling me with joy.
- Moving on...what do you think an article about the yellow kitchen should be titled? That was my starting point, but all roads I took lead here. I feel strongly that the yellow kitchen photo and the global response to it was a significant moment in human history, exactly how it is presented matters less. CT55555( talk) 03:51, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I did not mean to be rude, @
CT55555. Please excuse me if it read like that.
Bedivere (
talk) 03:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- AfD is not clean-up. We have three non-notable articles that could be incorporated into another article. We're here discussing each individually, hopefully to keep some information about this event and the people involved.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:49, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I'm thinking that photo might be up for a Pulitzer Prize or something similar, it seems to have struck a chord with people. Like the photo of the girl running naked from the fire bombing in Vietnam, it just seems to catch a certain time and place in the war.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:51, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Yes. I added it below.
Phan Thi Kim Phuc photographed by
Nick Ut during the
Vietnam War
CT55555(
talk) 04:06, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I don't want to go all
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS but this is a great comparison point and I note that the solution for the above was an article on the person, which exists simultaneous to the event article (the war) and the photographer's article. I hope you all might be sympathetic for lean towards consistency in how the encyclopaedia has dealt with pervious notable war photos.
CT55555(
talk) 04:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Let's keep things in perspective. This is nowhere being as notable as the Vietnam photo. It might be in the future, we don't know. But just because other stuff exists (as per the page you linked, actually) doesn't mean this one should exist. I am all for keeping only an article about the photo, merging the boxer and photographer articles, as long as the photo is considered notable by other users. Bedivere ( talk) 11:11, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I don't want to go all
WP:OTHERSTUFFEXISTS but this is a great comparison point and I note that the solution for the above was an article on the person, which exists simultaneous to the event article (the war) and the photographer's article. I hope you all might be sympathetic for lean towards consistency in how the encyclopaedia has dealt with pervious notable war photos.
CT55555(
talk) 04:12, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Yes. I added it below.
Phan Thi Kim Phuc photographed by
Nick Ut during the
Vietnam War
CT55555(
talk) 04:06, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- I'm thinking that photo might be up for a Pulitzer Prize or something similar, it seems to have struck a chord with people. Like the photo of the girl running naked from the fire bombing in Vietnam, it just seems to catch a certain time and place in the war.
Oaktree b (
talk) 03:51, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Please note that I created an event article, which someone else changed into this biographical article. I created an article about an event, not a biography. I'm OK with the change, but before you tell me what to do, please note what I actually did do.
CT55555(
talk) 03:40, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Then create an article about the kitchen photo, not about the non-notable boxing coach who is not even the primary subject of the article, but the kitchen photo.
Bedivere (
talk) 03:33, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- If
Slash had not been so good at the guitar, he also wouldn't warrant one. That's not a reason to delete an article. Indeed it's the kitchen photo that went globally viral, that is actually what this article is mostly about, in my opinion, how a photo touched the hearts of so many people. That is a separate topic from the actual bombing. Just like
Alan Kurdi's death was separate from the sinking of the ship that his family were on. To delete this article is to think that the response to the photo is the same topic as the bombing, but it is not. Plenty people know of the yellow kitchen, but not the wider event. The kitchen might be more notable than the wider event. I'm even more surprised that anyone would favour deletion over merging to
2022–2023 Dnipro missile strikes which I assume was the most dramatic action anyone would advocate for here.
CT55555(
talk) 03:32, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- From
Wikipedia:Deletion is not cleanup
in a nutshell: If an article on a notable subject can be improved through normal editing, do not put it through a deletion discussion.
I agree strongly. CT55555( talk) 03:53, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- From
Wikipedia:Deletion is not cleanup
- Note: This discussion has been included in the Article Rescue Squadron's list of content for rescue consideration. CT55555( talk) 04:27, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: Sportspeople, Boxing, and Ukraine. Spiderone (Talk to Spider) 11:56, 31 January 2023 (UTC)
- Delete - outside of his death, there is no notability. Onel5969 TT me 04:02, 3 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete only marginally notable for one event. Very little mention of this person or photograph since it first went viral and any conjecture about future Pulitzers is WP:CRYSTALBALL and outside of the scope of this biographical article anyway. Vladimir.copic ( talk) 00:54, 6 February 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. Since the recent comment above, I have added an early life and education section, a career section, and a family life section. New coverage is ongoing with the most recent coverage being today. I think assessments of this article made before this comment are now out of date.
CT55555(
talk) 01:22, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for making some improvements. I still think it should be merged into an eventual article about the photograph.
Bedivere (
talk) 01:33, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- While I still argue to keep, I'm concerned that the content will be lost, so have created Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo to enable the editors who want this kept, but as a photo article, to have a merge target. cc @ Oaktree b CT55555( talk) 01:53, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Thanks for making some improvements. I still think it should be merged into an eventual article about the photograph.
Bedivere (
talk) 01:33, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Relisting to consider Merger to Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 03:38, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Delete, this is a BIO1E situation where even the more newsworthy photo may not qualify for a page based on SUSTAINED. The DUE content is already covered elsewhere. JoelleJay ( talk) 07:10, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Merge introduction and Death and Aftermath to Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo, removing the irrelevant personal background. Many references in reliable sources, so it does seem notable. (Note: I strongly prefer the name Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo to the original Killing of Mykhailo Korenovsky title.) Radzy0 ( talk) 19:02, 7 February 2023 (UTC)
- Merge As an WP:ATD, due to the current topic not meeting WP:BIO1E. MrsSnoozyTurtle 02:46, 11 February 2023 (UTC)
- Comment Just reaffirming my deletion vote above as I am not sure that
Ukraine Yellow Kitchen Photo even passes
WP:GNG when you look at the sources more closely. Sources are mainly about the event rather than the photograph.
Vladimir.copic (
talk) 23:53, 12 February 2023 (UTC)
- Request to closing admin (or indeed anyone) for advice on the circular problem I'm faced with. This was an event article. The comment above suggests agreement that there is potential for an event article. But an editor unilaterally changed the original version of the article we are discussing here away from Killing of Mykhailo Korenovsky to this current title. Then people said he is not notable, but the photograph is, so I create the photograph article. Now it is suggested that the photograph is not notable, but the event that created it is. That's full circle. The range of opinions here seem all be editors who think something is notable, maybe the person, maybe the photograph, maybe the event. I wouldn't mind much if we could reach consensus on which one is and direct everything there, but I fear the theme here is people focussing on what they want to delete, implying something should be kept, but without consensus on what, please can we all agree not to delete everything?
- Maybe this would have been a more productive discussion if the three simultaneous deletion discussions were done on the one page.
CT55555(
talk) 00:01, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- To clarify, I think nothing and no one related to this photograph/event is notable and the topic falls into
WP:NOTNEWS. Maybe it will become notable over time - who knows - but it isn't now. Creating multiple articles to try and get this covered on WP doesn't seem very productive.
Vladimir.copic (
talk) 00:06, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- Of course, three articles about the same thing are more than needed. One, if any, would suffice and that's the kitchen photo article.
Bedivere (
talk) 00:09, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- For the record, one is a detailed biography of a photographer with years of press coverage for about four notable events. One is the biography of a man, that I do agree was better suited as an event article. One is about a photograph, that I was encouraged to create , earlier in the AFD. I see overlap between the event and the photograph article, the suggestion that
Yan Dobronosov is only notable for one photograph, when reliable sources have documented his years-long interesting career, I find difficult to leave unchallenged.
CT55555(
talk) 00:21, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- I did encourage you to create the kitchen photo article and have not suggested it to be deleted, but others may find it is a possibility. I do think Dobronosov is not sufficiently notable and as I have previously told you in their own AFD, we do not have to agree on this.
Bedivere (
talk) 01:56, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry for my error. You
proposed to delete the photo, not the article about the photo.
CT55555(
talk) 02:04, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- I did propose the photo for deletion before the article was created (and where inclusion is valid), because I don't think the fair use rationales for their use on the boxing coach and the photographer article are correct. It will not be deleted (as long as the photo article remains live). Bedivere ( talk) 02:12, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- Sorry for my error. You
proposed to delete the photo, not the article about the photo.
CT55555(
talk) 02:04, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- I did encourage you to create the kitchen photo article and have not suggested it to be deleted, but others may find it is a possibility. I do think Dobronosov is not sufficiently notable and as I have previously told you in their own AFD, we do not have to agree on this.
Bedivere (
talk) 01:56, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- For the record, one is a detailed biography of a photographer with years of press coverage for about four notable events. One is the biography of a man, that I do agree was better suited as an event article. One is about a photograph, that I was encouraged to create , earlier in the AFD. I see overlap between the event and the photograph article, the suggestion that
Yan Dobronosov is only notable for one photograph, when reliable sources have documented his years-long interesting career, I find difficult to leave unchallenged.
CT55555(
talk) 00:21, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- Of course, three articles about the same thing are more than needed. One, if any, would suffice and that's the kitchen photo article.
Bedivere (
talk) 00:09, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
- To clarify, I think nothing and no one related to this photograph/event is notable and the topic falls into
WP:NOTNEWS. Maybe it will become notable over time - who knows - but it isn't now. Creating multiple articles to try and get this covered on WP doesn't seem very productive.
Vladimir.copic (
talk) 00:06, 13 February 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Relisting comment: Sorry to relist again but I'm not seeing a consensus except for a majority of editors who think some part of this event/photo/person is notable. That is why I suggested considering a Merge. I wish I could wave my hand and bundle all three articles into one AFD but that is not possible at this point.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Liz Read! Talk! 04:06, 14 February 2023 (UTC)
- Comment I've been following this discussion and I'll admit I have mixed feelings about the various articles that have been mentioned. I really don't think that Korenovsky has done anything that would merit a standalone article--I see no SNG that is met nor do I think the coverage of him meets WP:GNG. All deaths are tragic, but most fall under WP:NOTNEWS. There have been plenty of pictures from the invasion of Ukraine which generate a range of emotions, but I don't know which of them will stand the test of time in terms of historical significance--which is what I think WP:NEVENT is about. Papaursa ( talk) 11:24, 16 February 2023 (UTC)
- Merge to article on the photograph. Doesn't seem to meet GNG, but an article on the photograph might be okay. -- Patar knight - chat/ contributions 05:12, 21 February 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.