- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Looks like there is a consensus among participating editors to Keep this article. Liz Read! Talk! 02:12, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
Isabel, North Dakota
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- Isabel, North Dakota ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
A little of a borderline case, as what little information I can get comes from the Ghosts of North Dakota website, which is questionable as a reliable source. At any rate there's nothing there now except a sign memorializing the school building which once stood here, and that was just about all there was to the place except a store mentioned in one of the comments to the post. The school didn't appear until 1922 and was supposedly the result of consolidating the other schools in the township. At any rate, I doubt that this adds up to a notable settlement. Mangoe ( talk) 02:57, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: North Dakota and Geography. -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 15:05, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: 47 people lived there in 2020. (The place is growing! 46 lived there during the 2010 census.)
- Do we delete U.S. places with a population?
- -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 16:54, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep it seems to be a census settlement so would likely be notable per WP:GEOLAND. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 17:27, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- The census numbers are for
the whole township, not just this spot.
Mangoe (
talk) 22:29, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- The source makes reference to "city".
Crouch, Swale (
talk) 06:50, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
- Well, they are obviously wrong as soon as one looks at GMaps, as there simply is no town now. And at any rate, I looked directly at the township on the census website, and it gives a population of 46 for the township.
Mangoe (
talk) 14:21, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
- According to the 2010 census the population was 46. After 10 years, in 2020, the city had an estimated population of 47 inhabitants.
- https://www.mapsof.net/isabel-nd
- and no it is not a wikipedia mirror, i added the info to the wikipedia page.
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 02:10, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- and it has been listed in the USGNI Database since February 13, 1980
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 02:12, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Please go read
WP:GNIS, as we have been working for some years now getting rid of all the spurious places entered as "unincorporated communities" in WP. And please go look at the place in GMaps. Is there really a possibility that 46 people live in a sign and a ruined building? As I said before, I looked directly in the census, not on some aggregator site, and it says the township has a population of 46. A township is not the same as a town; it's a subdivision of a county in the the same way that a county is a subdivision of a state. It's an area, not a spot. Isabel-the-supposed-town has no population, because there is nothing there but a sign and the ruins of a house or farm structure. You have to check all these sources against each other.
Mangoe (
talk) 17:57, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Accourding to google maps what you have said is not true:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Isabel,+ND+58332/@48.0628577,-99.6603015,2883m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x52db9eadd7598a43:0x5a1e15bbd3435067!8m2!3d48.0647286!4d-99.6534652!16s%2Fm%2F04b7spm?entry=ttu
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 03:26, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- What am I supposed to be seeing? The text on the left is simply our article: click on "more" if you don't believe me. If you zoom in on the marked spot, there is nothing there but plants and roads. If you go to street view at the spot and look north, you can see the sign that marks the location of the former school, and that's it. How are there 47 people here?
Mangoe (
talk) 12:10, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- what I am sayig is that there are buildings/ remnent of buildings PaulGamerBoy360 ( talk) 03:41, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- What am I supposed to be seeing? The text on the left is simply our article: click on "more" if you don't believe me. If you zoom in on the marked spot, there is nothing there but plants and roads. If you go to street view at the spot and look north, you can see the sign that marks the location of the former school, and that's it. How are there 47 people here?
Mangoe (
talk) 12:10, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- also The GNIS was not corrupt in 1980. PaulGamerBoy360 ( talk) 03:41, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- Accourding to google maps what you have said is not true:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Isabel,+ND+58332/@48.0628577,-99.6603015,2883m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x52db9eadd7598a43:0x5a1e15bbd3435067!8m2!3d48.0647286!4d-99.6534652!16s%2Fm%2F04b7spm?entry=ttu
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 03:26, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- Please go read
WP:GNIS, as we have been working for some years now getting rid of all the spurious places entered as "unincorporated communities" in WP. And please go look at the place in GMaps. Is there really a possibility that 46 people live in a sign and a ruined building? As I said before, I looked directly in the census, not on some aggregator site, and it says the township has a population of 46. A township is not the same as a town; it's a subdivision of a county in the the same way that a county is a subdivision of a state. It's an area, not a spot. Isabel-the-supposed-town has no population, because there is nothing there but a sign and the ruins of a house or farm structure. You have to check all these sources against each other.
Mangoe (
talk) 17:57, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- and it has been listed in the USGNI Database since February 13, 1980
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 02:12, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Well, they are obviously wrong as soon as one looks at GMaps, as there simply is no town now. And at any rate, I looked directly at the township on the census website, and it gives a population of 46 for the township.
Mangoe (
talk) 14:21, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
- The source makes reference to "city".
Crouch, Swale (
talk) 06:50, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
- The census numbers are for
the whole township, not just this spot.
Mangoe (
talk) 22:29, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- Delete as per nomination and the nominator's subsequent presented facts. TH1980 ( talk) 01:01, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
:•Delete - We have enough info to know it was/is a community, though we don't have enough information to include it in a wikipedia article.
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 03:31, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
Keep MERGE to Isabel, townshipKeep since multiple sources mention clearly Isabel and not Isabel twp.If both are the same town merge to isabel township.— Preceding unsigned comment added by बिनोद थारू ( talk • contribs) 01:36, 13 September 2023 (UTC)- Also newspaper source are:
- Roundup Record-Tribune & Winnett Times - Jul 26, 2006 - page 3
- The Calgary Herald - Nov 6, 1939 - page 8
- They mention some citizens from Isabel, ND.
- Finally The American Missionary - Volume 77 - Page 551 (1923) mentions the Church of Isabel, ND, so KEEP.
बिनोद थारू ( talk) 00:56, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep it looks like it at least was populated based on some historical source searching and therefore passes WP:GEOLAND. SportingFlyer T· C 09:05, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:58, 14 September 2023 (UTC)●Delete-We have enough info to know it was/is a community, though we don't have enough information to prove weather it is notable, and not enough information to include it in a wikipedia article. PaulGamerBoy360 ( talk) 17:06, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
— Duplicate !vote:
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk •
contribs) has already cast a !vote above.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 17:50, 14 September 2023 (UTC)- @BeanieFan11 - Because this is a relisting the votes above do not count.
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 23:21, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- You're only allowed to vote once in a discussion - the fact that this has been relisted doesn't mean all the votes above it don't count.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 23:29, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- PaulGamerBoy360, you are only allowed to case one "vote", no matter how many times the discussion is relisted. Have you participated in many AFDs because this is a basic practice in deletion discussions. Liz Read! Talk! 03:51, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- You're only allowed to vote once in a discussion - the fact that this has been relisted doesn't mean all the votes above it don't count.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 23:29, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- @BeanieFan11 - Because this is a relisting the votes above do not count.
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 23:21, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. WP:GEOLAND policy above and historical source brought up by myself.
- "Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low. Even abandoned places can be notable, because notability encompasses their entire history. Census tracts, Abadi, and other areas not commonly recognized as a place (such as the area in an irrigation district) are not presumed to be notable. The Geographic Names Information System and the GEOnet Names Server do not satisfy the "legal recognition" requirement and are also unreliable for "populated place" designation.[1][2]"
- Legal recognition is US census of course
- बिनोद थारू ( talk) 01:03, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- ●Keep- New Information and sources have been added to the article have inclined me to change my !vote to keep. PaulGamerBoy360 ( talk) 16:49, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- Merge to Isabel Township. I'm fine with keep but I checked NARA: Post Office Reports of Site Locations, 1837–1950, for Benson County and unless it was misfiled I don't think it ever had a post office. I cant find it on any old USGS maps (although that's somewhat of a crapshoot because, you know, time and space and the historical record). But also this township plat map does not give me confidence that Isabel was ever a distinct settled place. I think at most Isabel (v Isabel Twp) was a crossroads or a road sign where people said they were from, but also it's hard to prove a negative and/or with rural locations the notability standards have to be a little more flexible IMHO. jengod ( talk) 19:24, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was keep. Looks like there is a consensus among participating editors to Keep this article. Liz Read! Talk! 02:12, 21 September 2023 (UTC)
Isabel, North Dakota
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Isabel, North Dakota ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
A little of a borderline case, as what little information I can get comes from the Ghosts of North Dakota website, which is questionable as a reliable source. At any rate there's nothing there now except a sign memorializing the school building which once stood here, and that was just about all there was to the place except a store mentioned in one of the comments to the post. The school didn't appear until 1922 and was supposedly the result of consolidating the other schools in the township. At any rate, I doubt that this adds up to a notable settlement. Mangoe ( talk) 02:57, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the deletion sorting lists for the following topics: North Dakota and Geography. -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 15:05, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- Comment: 47 people lived there in 2020. (The place is growing! 46 lived there during the 2010 census.)
- Do we delete U.S. places with a population?
- -- A. B. ( talk • contribs • global count) 16:54, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep it seems to be a census settlement so would likely be notable per WP:GEOLAND. Crouch, Swale ( talk) 17:27, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- The census numbers are for
the whole township, not just this spot.
Mangoe (
talk) 22:29, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- The source makes reference to "city".
Crouch, Swale (
talk) 06:50, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
- Well, they are obviously wrong as soon as one looks at GMaps, as there simply is no town now. And at any rate, I looked directly at the township on the census website, and it gives a population of 46 for the township.
Mangoe (
talk) 14:21, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
- According to the 2010 census the population was 46. After 10 years, in 2020, the city had an estimated population of 47 inhabitants.
- https://www.mapsof.net/isabel-nd
- and no it is not a wikipedia mirror, i added the info to the wikipedia page.
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 02:10, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- and it has been listed in the USGNI Database since February 13, 1980
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 02:12, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Please go read
WP:GNIS, as we have been working for some years now getting rid of all the spurious places entered as "unincorporated communities" in WP. And please go look at the place in GMaps. Is there really a possibility that 46 people live in a sign and a ruined building? As I said before, I looked directly in the census, not on some aggregator site, and it says the township has a population of 46. A township is not the same as a town; it's a subdivision of a county in the the same way that a county is a subdivision of a state. It's an area, not a spot. Isabel-the-supposed-town has no population, because there is nothing there but a sign and the ruins of a house or farm structure. You have to check all these sources against each other.
Mangoe (
talk) 17:57, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Accourding to google maps what you have said is not true:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Isabel,+ND+58332/@48.0628577,-99.6603015,2883m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x52db9eadd7598a43:0x5a1e15bbd3435067!8m2!3d48.0647286!4d-99.6534652!16s%2Fm%2F04b7spm?entry=ttu
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 03:26, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- What am I supposed to be seeing? The text on the left is simply our article: click on "more" if you don't believe me. If you zoom in on the marked spot, there is nothing there but plants and roads. If you go to street view at the spot and look north, you can see the sign that marks the location of the former school, and that's it. How are there 47 people here?
Mangoe (
talk) 12:10, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- what I am sayig is that there are buildings/ remnent of buildings PaulGamerBoy360 ( talk) 03:41, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- What am I supposed to be seeing? The text on the left is simply our article: click on "more" if you don't believe me. If you zoom in on the marked spot, there is nothing there but plants and roads. If you go to street view at the spot and look north, you can see the sign that marks the location of the former school, and that's it. How are there 47 people here?
Mangoe (
talk) 12:10, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- also The GNIS was not corrupt in 1980. PaulGamerBoy360 ( talk) 03:41, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- Accourding to google maps what you have said is not true:
https://www.google.com/maps/place/Isabel,+ND+58332/@48.0628577,-99.6603015,2883m/data=!3m1!1e3!4m6!3m5!1s0x52db9eadd7598a43:0x5a1e15bbd3435067!8m2!3d48.0647286!4d-99.6534652!16s%2Fm%2F04b7spm?entry=ttu
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 03:26, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
- Please go read
WP:GNIS, as we have been working for some years now getting rid of all the spurious places entered as "unincorporated communities" in WP. And please go look at the place in GMaps. Is there really a possibility that 46 people live in a sign and a ruined building? As I said before, I looked directly in the census, not on some aggregator site, and it says the township has a population of 46. A township is not the same as a town; it's a subdivision of a county in the the same way that a county is a subdivision of a state. It's an area, not a spot. Isabel-the-supposed-town has no population, because there is nothing there but a sign and the ruins of a house or farm structure. You have to check all these sources against each other.
Mangoe (
talk) 17:57, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- and it has been listed in the USGNI Database since February 13, 1980
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 02:12, 9 September 2023 (UTC)
- Well, they are obviously wrong as soon as one looks at GMaps, as there simply is no town now. And at any rate, I looked directly at the township on the census website, and it gives a population of 46 for the township.
Mangoe (
talk) 14:21, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
- The source makes reference to "city".
Crouch, Swale (
talk) 06:50, 8 September 2023 (UTC)
- The census numbers are for
the whole township, not just this spot.
Mangoe (
talk) 22:29, 7 September 2023 (UTC)
- Delete as per nomination and the nominator's subsequent presented facts. TH1980 ( talk) 01:01, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
:•Delete - We have enough info to know it was/is a community, though we don't have enough information to include it in a wikipedia article.
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 03:31, 10 September 2023 (UTC)
Keep MERGE to Isabel, townshipKeep since multiple sources mention clearly Isabel and not Isabel twp.If both are the same town merge to isabel township.— Preceding unsigned comment added by बिनोद थारू ( talk • contribs) 01:36, 13 September 2023 (UTC)- Also newspaper source are:
- Roundup Record-Tribune & Winnett Times - Jul 26, 2006 - page 3
- The Calgary Herald - Nov 6, 1939 - page 8
- They mention some citizens from Isabel, ND.
- Finally The American Missionary - Volume 77 - Page 551 (1923) mentions the Church of Isabel, ND, so KEEP.
बिनोद थारू ( talk) 00:56, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
- Keep it looks like it at least was populated based on some historical source searching and therefore passes WP:GEOLAND. SportingFlyer T· C 09:05, 13 September 2023 (UTC)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Seraphimblade Talk to me 02:58, 14 September 2023 (UTC)●Delete-We have enough info to know it was/is a community, though we don't have enough information to prove weather it is notable, and not enough information to include it in a wikipedia article. PaulGamerBoy360 ( talk) 17:06, 14 September 2023 (UTC)- — Duplicate !vote:
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk •
contribs) has already cast a !vote above.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 17:50, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- @BeanieFan11 - Because this is a relisting the votes above do not count.
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 23:21, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- You're only allowed to vote once in a discussion - the fact that this has been relisted doesn't mean all the votes above it don't count.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 23:29, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- PaulGamerBoy360, you are only allowed to case one "vote", no matter how many times the discussion is relisted. Have you participated in many AFDs because this is a basic practice in deletion discussions. Liz Read! Talk! 03:51, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- You're only allowed to vote once in a discussion - the fact that this has been relisted doesn't mean all the votes above it don't count.
BeanieFan11 (
talk) 23:29, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- @BeanieFan11 - Because this is a relisting the votes above do not count.
PaulGamerBoy360 (
talk) 23:21, 14 September 2023 (UTC)
- Comment. WP:GEOLAND policy above and historical source brought up by myself.
- "Populated, legally recognized places are typically presumed to be notable, even if their population is very low. Even abandoned places can be notable, because notability encompasses their entire history. Census tracts, Abadi, and other areas not commonly recognized as a place (such as the area in an irrigation district) are not presumed to be notable. The Geographic Names Information System and the GEOnet Names Server do not satisfy the "legal recognition" requirement and are also unreliable for "populated place" designation.[1][2]"
- Legal recognition is US census of course
- बिनोद थारू ( talk) 01:03, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- ●Keep- New Information and sources have been added to the article have inclined me to change my !vote to keep. PaulGamerBoy360 ( talk) 16:49, 15 September 2023 (UTC)
- Merge to Isabel Township. I'm fine with keep but I checked NARA: Post Office Reports of Site Locations, 1837–1950, for Benson County and unless it was misfiled I don't think it ever had a post office. I cant find it on any old USGS maps (although that's somewhat of a crapshoot because, you know, time and space and the historical record). But also this township plat map does not give me confidence that Isabel was ever a distinct settled place. I think at most Isabel (v Isabel Twp) was a crossroads or a road sign where people said they were from, but also it's hard to prove a negative and/or with rural locations the notability standards have to be a little more flexible IMHO. jengod ( talk) 19:24, 20 September 2023 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.