- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Jake Wartenberg ( talk) 14:18, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Devon Archer
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- Devon Archer ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article was created today in an apparent attempt to smear Archer and
Hunter Biden, and the article creator included a new reference to Archer in the lead of Biden's BLP to insinuate
guilt by association. Hunter Biden had nothing to do with Archer's fraud, and the article fails to note Archer's conviction was overturned,
[1] leaving readers to believe he went to prison. Just another smear job.
soibangla (
talk) 00:09, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 00:13, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Soibangla, the source you cite is from 2018. Yesterday on February 28, 2022, Archer was sentenced to a year and a day in prison.
[2] Please stay up-to-date on current events. –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Soibangla, the source you cite is from 2018. Yesterday on February 28, 2022, Archer was sentenced to a year and a day in prison.
[2] Please stay up-to-date on current events. –
- Delete per not meeting the standards of
WP:GNG,
WP:BLP1E, or
WP:CRIMINAL. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 00:19, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Please clarify. Thanks. –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:22, 2 March 2022 (UTC)- He's not notable per GNG for lacking significant, in depth coverage of him as a person. He does not meet criteria of BLP1E as he is only known in the context of criminal accusations (and this conviction), he otherwise remains low-profile, and the event is not particularly significant. He doesn't meet the notability guideline CRIMINAL as the victim of his crime is not a renowned figure and the nature of the crime is pretty common –
Muboshgu (
talk) 00:29, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Archer has been heavily reported on by news outlets due to his association with Hunter Biden. Thus, he is notable enough for the page about him to remain as opposed to being deleted. –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:31, 2 March 2022 (UTC)- He has been mentioned by disreputable outlets in an effort to smear the Bidens. He is more notable for that than for anything he's done.
soibangla (
talk) 00:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, really? So per your words, PolitiFact
[3]
[4], Newsweek
[5], the DOJ
[6], and Washington Examiner
[7] are disreputable? –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:45, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, really? So per your words, PolitiFact
[3]
[4], Newsweek
[5], the DOJ
[6], and Washington Examiner
[7] are disreputable? –
- He has been mentioned by disreputable outlets in an effort to smear the Bidens. He is more notable for that than for anything he's done.
soibangla (
talk) 00:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Archer has been heavily reported on by news outlets due to his association with Hunter Biden. Thus, he is notable enough for the page about him to remain as opposed to being deleted. –
- He's not notable per GNG for lacking significant, in depth coverage of him as a person. He does not meet criteria of BLP1E as he is only known in the context of criminal accusations (and this conviction), he otherwise remains low-profile, and the event is not particularly significant. He doesn't meet the notability guideline CRIMINAL as the victim of his crime is not a renowned figure and the nature of the crime is pretty common –
Muboshgu (
talk) 00:29, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Please clarify. Thanks. –
- In the context of
disreputable outlets in an effort to smear the Bidens
, reputable sources have mentioned Archer to dispute/refute what disreputable sources have claimed. You know...factchecking. soibangla ( talk)- That does not dispute my point regarding the notability of Archer due to the mentions of him by news outlets. The fact that reliable sources would strenuously mention him in an effort to refute alleged misinformation only makes him notable. –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 01:15, 2 March 2022 (UTC)- Yeah, he got his 15 minutes in 2019 when the Hunter Biden fake scandal was emerging but it amounted to nothing and he has since been ignored, apart from disreputable sources who now report his sentencing by naming Biden in their ledes [8] [9] to keep this endless fake scandal alive. soibangla ( talk) 01:31, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- That does not dispute my point regarding the notability of Archer due to the mentions of him by news outlets. The fact that reliable sources would strenuously mention him in an effort to refute alleged misinformation only makes him notable. –
- In the context of
- Koncorde has it right. Archer has been mentioned in press reports, but that is not "signficant coverage". Where was he born? When was he born? Where did he go to school? What else can you tell us about him that goes beyond his criminal activity and his association with Hunter Biden? – Muboshgu ( talk) 03:53, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per relevance and notability. "Devon Archer" was linked to from several other articles prior to my creation of the page. –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:22, 2 March 2022 (UTC)- I count five (
BHR Partners,
Burisma,
Hunter Biden,
Rosemont Seneca Partners,
Trump–Ukraine scandal). That's not so significant, having five pages mention a non-notable individual. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 00:30, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- So you are asserting that a firm partner of Hunter Biden who held positions in
Burisma Holdings and
Rosemont Seneca Partners is not notable? –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:33, 2 March 2022 (UTC)- Hunter Biden isn't especially notable apart from the fake scandal invented about him, so yes, Archer is even less notable. soibangla ( talk) 00:38, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Since being a firm partner of Hunter Biden has resulted in such little coverage of him beyond a rap sheet, yeah. Whatever positions Archer has held do not make him notable. – Muboshgu ( talk) 03:54, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- So you are asserting that a firm partner of Hunter Biden who held positions in
Burisma Holdings and
Rosemont Seneca Partners is not notable? –
- I count five (
BHR Partners,
Burisma,
Hunter Biden,
Rosemont Seneca Partners,
Trump–Ukraine scandal). That's not so significant, having five pages mention a non-notable individual. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 00:30, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete but at the very least it should be re-written (which I have attempted) to get at what is actually significant - i.e. Archer would be just another criminal businessman if not for his circle of friends. His coverage in sources that want to farm that relationship will be pretty predictable, and far from exhaustive, as he is just another name in events that happened around him. Would agree with Soibangla about WP:BLP1E, or WP:CRIMINAL, but I also think WP:SIGCOV is of relevance. The articles don't address Archer particularly - they are about the criminal act - and then attempt to circle back to Hunter. Also per WP:NOTNEWS item 3 and to an extent item 4 which works both backwards and forwards - such association is gossip. Koncorde ( talk) 02:24, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per Koncorde. -- Vaco98 ( talk) 03:28, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per lack of reliable sources listed. 71.179.1.78 ( talk) 14:13, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete He defrauded a Native American Indian reserve out of money, hardly wiki worthy. Oaktree b ( talk) 18:29, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete I think that Koncorde and Muboshgu are correct in that WP:BLP1E applies, we don't really have the material to meet WP:CRIMINAL, and there isn't the WP:SIGCOV to write a true biography. Notability is not inherited from the organizations in which he was a partner or the other people who also had that status. XOR'easter ( talk) 21:38, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Per SINGLEEVENT, the event has already been written about and there is nothing left to say about the person. Other than the scandal he was convicted of, which appears to be unrelated, insignificant, and lacking in references.-- Gronk Oz ( talk) 07:39, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the article below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the article's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result was delete. Jake Wartenberg ( talk) 14:18, 8 March 2022 (UTC)
Devon Archer
[Hide this box] New to Articles for deletion (AfD)? Read these primers!
- Devon Archer ( | talk | history | protect | delete | links | watch | logs | views) – ( View log | edits since nomination)
- (Find sources: Google ( books · news · scholar · free images · WP refs) · FENS · JSTOR · TWL)
The article was created today in an apparent attempt to smear Archer and
Hunter Biden, and the article creator included a new reference to Archer in the lead of Biden's BLP to insinuate
guilt by association. Hunter Biden had nothing to do with Archer's fraud, and the article fails to note Archer's conviction was overturned,
[1] leaving readers to believe he went to prison. Just another smear job.
soibangla (
talk) 00:09, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Note: This discussion has been included in the list of People-related deletion discussions. CAPTAIN RAJU (T) 00:13, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Soibangla, the source you cite is from 2018. Yesterday on February 28, 2022, Archer was sentenced to a year and a day in prison.
[2] Please stay up-to-date on current events. –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:14, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Soibangla, the source you cite is from 2018. Yesterday on February 28, 2022, Archer was sentenced to a year and a day in prison.
[2] Please stay up-to-date on current events. –
- Delete per not meeting the standards of
WP:GNG,
WP:BLP1E, or
WP:CRIMINAL. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 00:19, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Please clarify. Thanks. –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:22, 2 March 2022 (UTC)- He's not notable per GNG for lacking significant, in depth coverage of him as a person. He does not meet criteria of BLP1E as he is only known in the context of criminal accusations (and this conviction), he otherwise remains low-profile, and the event is not particularly significant. He doesn't meet the notability guideline CRIMINAL as the victim of his crime is not a renowned figure and the nature of the crime is pretty common –
Muboshgu (
talk) 00:29, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Archer has been heavily reported on by news outlets due to his association with Hunter Biden. Thus, he is notable enough for the page about him to remain as opposed to being deleted. –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:31, 2 March 2022 (UTC)- He has been mentioned by disreputable outlets in an effort to smear the Bidens. He is more notable for that than for anything he's done.
soibangla (
talk) 00:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, really? So per your words, PolitiFact
[3]
[4], Newsweek
[5], the DOJ
[6], and Washington Examiner
[7] are disreputable? –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:45, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Oh, really? So per your words, PolitiFact
[3]
[4], Newsweek
[5], the DOJ
[6], and Washington Examiner
[7] are disreputable? –
- He has been mentioned by disreputable outlets in an effort to smear the Bidens. He is more notable for that than for anything he's done.
soibangla (
talk) 00:36, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Archer has been heavily reported on by news outlets due to his association with Hunter Biden. Thus, he is notable enough for the page about him to remain as opposed to being deleted. –
- He's not notable per GNG for lacking significant, in depth coverage of him as a person. He does not meet criteria of BLP1E as he is only known in the context of criminal accusations (and this conviction), he otherwise remains low-profile, and the event is not particularly significant. He doesn't meet the notability guideline CRIMINAL as the victim of his crime is not a renowned figure and the nature of the crime is pretty common –
Muboshgu (
talk) 00:29, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Please clarify. Thanks. –
- In the context of
disreputable outlets in an effort to smear the Bidens
, reputable sources have mentioned Archer to dispute/refute what disreputable sources have claimed. You know...factchecking. soibangla ( talk)- That does not dispute my point regarding the notability of Archer due to the mentions of him by news outlets. The fact that reliable sources would strenuously mention him in an effort to refute alleged misinformation only makes him notable. –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 01:15, 2 March 2022 (UTC)- Yeah, he got his 15 minutes in 2019 when the Hunter Biden fake scandal was emerging but it amounted to nothing and he has since been ignored, apart from disreputable sources who now report his sentencing by naming Biden in their ledes [8] [9] to keep this endless fake scandal alive. soibangla ( talk) 01:31, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- That does not dispute my point regarding the notability of Archer due to the mentions of him by news outlets. The fact that reliable sources would strenuously mention him in an effort to refute alleged misinformation only makes him notable. –
- In the context of
- Koncorde has it right. Archer has been mentioned in press reports, but that is not "signficant coverage". Where was he born? When was he born? Where did he go to school? What else can you tell us about him that goes beyond his criminal activity and his association with Hunter Biden? – Muboshgu ( talk) 03:53, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Keep per relevance and notability. "Devon Archer" was linked to from several other articles prior to my creation of the page. –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:22, 2 March 2022 (UTC)- I count five (
BHR Partners,
Burisma,
Hunter Biden,
Rosemont Seneca Partners,
Trump–Ukraine scandal). That's not so significant, having five pages mention a non-notable individual. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 00:30, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- So you are asserting that a firm partner of Hunter Biden who held positions in
Burisma Holdings and
Rosemont Seneca Partners is not notable? –
trn(debate me) • (my accomplishments) 00:33, 2 March 2022 (UTC)- Hunter Biden isn't especially notable apart from the fake scandal invented about him, so yes, Archer is even less notable. soibangla ( talk) 00:38, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Since being a firm partner of Hunter Biden has resulted in such little coverage of him beyond a rap sheet, yeah. Whatever positions Archer has held do not make him notable. – Muboshgu ( talk) 03:54, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- So you are asserting that a firm partner of Hunter Biden who held positions in
Burisma Holdings and
Rosemont Seneca Partners is not notable? –
- I count five (
BHR Partners,
Burisma,
Hunter Biden,
Rosemont Seneca Partners,
Trump–Ukraine scandal). That's not so significant, having five pages mention a non-notable individual. –
Muboshgu (
talk) 00:30, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete but at the very least it should be re-written (which I have attempted) to get at what is actually significant - i.e. Archer would be just another criminal businessman if not for his circle of friends. His coverage in sources that want to farm that relationship will be pretty predictable, and far from exhaustive, as he is just another name in events that happened around him. Would agree with Soibangla about WP:BLP1E, or WP:CRIMINAL, but I also think WP:SIGCOV is of relevance. The articles don't address Archer particularly - they are about the criminal act - and then attempt to circle back to Hunter. Also per WP:NOTNEWS item 3 and to an extent item 4 which works both backwards and forwards - such association is gossip. Koncorde ( talk) 02:24, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per Koncorde. -- Vaco98 ( talk) 03:28, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete per lack of reliable sources listed. 71.179.1.78 ( talk) 14:13, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete He defrauded a Native American Indian reserve out of money, hardly wiki worthy. Oaktree b ( talk) 18:29, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete I think that Koncorde and Muboshgu are correct in that WP:BLP1E applies, we don't really have the material to meet WP:CRIMINAL, and there isn't the WP:SIGCOV to write a true biography. Notability is not inherited from the organizations in which he was a partner or the other people who also had that status. XOR'easter ( talk) 21:38, 2 March 2022 (UTC)
- Delete Per SINGLEEVENT, the event has already been written about and there is nothing left to say about the person. Other than the scandal he was convicted of, which appears to be unrelated, insignificant, and lacking in references.-- Gronk Oz ( talk) 07:39, 3 March 2022 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.