I have taken this article from what was essentially a stub to a more sizeable document. I think it now covers the Division's actions, problems and key dates. Peer review inputs by 1944-1945 Italian Campaign specialists would be much appreciated. There are very few SA Military articles in A-Class status and I think this one can progress in that direction (currently Start Class). Farawayman ( talk) 10:42, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
This is a really good piece, detailed and with orbats at various times. Two thoughts;
My apologies Farawayman; extremely good sourcehunting.
YellowMonkey ( new photo poll) 04:14, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I found this a very interesting article and most of my comments are just minor style points that might help for an ACR (many of them are nitpicks, but hopefully they will help):
AustralianRupert ( talk) 09:33, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
You asked me to do a read through for copy edit and I'll be happy to do that.If anything comes up that needs clarification I'll add it below as I go:
1. "Training began in a desert camp close to Khataba". It would help to explain where this is. Is it the one in Afghanistan? I believe III Corps was part of Persia and Iraq Command at the time....
Stephen Kirrage
talk -
contribs 13:14, 20 October 2010 (UTC) Khataba (also known as El Khataba) 70 km NW of Cairo. See
Khataba (scroll down for map). I have clarified the text to prevent confusion with other Khataba's.
Farawayman (
talk) 17:41, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
2.Mention of 11th Canadian Infantry Brigade near Isernia. As far as I'm aware only Brigade #s 1-3 were in Italy (+an armoured brigade). Could you check your source please?
Stephen Kirrage
talk -
contribs 13:48, 20 October 2010 (UTC) I checked the original reference - it refers to 11th Inf Bde (Can). I also checked Jackson Vol VI Part II p. 225. 11th Inf Bde is listed in the 8th Army OOB as being part of I Canadian Corps at the time of the Gothic Line battles. So I think its correct. Jackson also makes frequent reference to the Perth Regiment and the Cape Breton Highlanders, who were both 11th Inf Bde battalions.
Farawayman (
talk) 17:52, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
3."By 25 October, the rains had turned to floods, isolating the Division's elements on Hill 501 and suspending all air support from the US 12th Air Force." US 12th Air Force ceased to exist as an operational entity when Mediterranean Allied Air Command was formed in 1943 (see
here). Jackson says (p. 235 note at bottom of the page) that US XXII Tactical Air Command was responsible for supporting 5th Army by this time.
Stephen Kirrage
talk -
contribs 18:05, 20 October 2010 (UTC) Yes, you are 100% correct. The cited page does not make reference to which air force it was. I typed 12th USAF as an assumption! Jackson reference is clear. Corrected to US XXII Tac Air Cmd.
Farawayman (
talk) 03:59, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
4.Since the brigade commanders are named in the OOB, may I suggest that the Divisional artillery commander also be named (since he would also have been a brigadier).
Stephen Kirrage
talk -
contribs 18:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC) One hour of research later, and its been corrected :) He was a Col!
Farawayman (
talk) 18:01, 22 October 2010 (UTC)
I have taken this article from what was essentially a stub to a more sizeable document. I think it now covers the Division's actions, problems and key dates. Peer review inputs by 1944-1945 Italian Campaign specialists would be much appreciated. There are very few SA Military articles in A-Class status and I think this one can progress in that direction (currently Start Class). Farawayman ( talk) 10:42, 13 October 2010 (UTC)
This is a really good piece, detailed and with orbats at various times. Two thoughts;
My apologies Farawayman; extremely good sourcehunting.
YellowMonkey ( new photo poll) 04:14, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
I found this a very interesting article and most of my comments are just minor style points that might help for an ACR (many of them are nitpicks, but hopefully they will help):
AustralianRupert ( talk) 09:33, 14 October 2010 (UTC)
You asked me to do a read through for copy edit and I'll be happy to do that.If anything comes up that needs clarification I'll add it below as I go:
1. "Training began in a desert camp close to Khataba". It would help to explain where this is. Is it the one in Afghanistan? I believe III Corps was part of Persia and Iraq Command at the time....
Stephen Kirrage
talk -
contribs 13:14, 20 October 2010 (UTC) Khataba (also known as El Khataba) 70 km NW of Cairo. See
Khataba (scroll down for map). I have clarified the text to prevent confusion with other Khataba's.
Farawayman (
talk) 17:41, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
2.Mention of 11th Canadian Infantry Brigade near Isernia. As far as I'm aware only Brigade #s 1-3 were in Italy (+an armoured brigade). Could you check your source please?
Stephen Kirrage
talk -
contribs 13:48, 20 October 2010 (UTC) I checked the original reference - it refers to 11th Inf Bde (Can). I also checked Jackson Vol VI Part II p. 225. 11th Inf Bde is listed in the 8th Army OOB as being part of I Canadian Corps at the time of the Gothic Line battles. So I think its correct. Jackson also makes frequent reference to the Perth Regiment and the Cape Breton Highlanders, who were both 11th Inf Bde battalions.
Farawayman (
talk) 17:52, 20 October 2010 (UTC)
3."By 25 October, the rains had turned to floods, isolating the Division's elements on Hill 501 and suspending all air support from the US 12th Air Force." US 12th Air Force ceased to exist as an operational entity when Mediterranean Allied Air Command was formed in 1943 (see
here). Jackson says (p. 235 note at bottom of the page) that US XXII Tactical Air Command was responsible for supporting 5th Army by this time.
Stephen Kirrage
talk -
contribs 18:05, 20 October 2010 (UTC) Yes, you are 100% correct. The cited page does not make reference to which air force it was. I typed 12th USAF as an assumption! Jackson reference is clear. Corrected to US XXII Tac Air Cmd.
Farawayman (
talk) 03:59, 21 October 2010 (UTC)
4.Since the brigade commanders are named in the OOB, may I suggest that the Divisional artillery commander also be named (since he would also have been a brigadier).
Stephen Kirrage
talk -
contribs 18:18, 20 October 2010 (UTC) One hour of research later, and its been corrected :) He was a Col!
Farawayman (
talk) 18:01, 22 October 2010 (UTC)