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Not a template; creator authored an article space page with the same name, deleted as
WP:A7.
Drm310🍁 (
talk) 21:19, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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DannyS712 (
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The result of the discussion was no consensus. But, feel free to make a different merge proposal
Plastikspork―Œ(talk) 23:37, 24 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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Jo-Jo Eumerus (
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Not sure, but since terminology has been rather an issue in this topic, perhaps it should remain "Template:Assyrian/Syriac/Chaldean political parties"?
PPEMES (
talk) 07:13, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
@
PPEMES: Wasn't your original proposal to just call it {{Assyrian people footer}}? Also, per our article on
Assyrian people, Assyrian people (
Syriac: ܐܫܘܪܝܐ), or Syriacs (see
terms for Syriac Christians), are an
ethnic group indigenous to
Western Asia. Some of them self-identify as Arameans, or as Chaldeans. Speakers of modern
Aramaic and as well as the primary languages in their countries of residence, modern Assyrians are
Syriac Christians who
claim descent from Assyria, one of the oldest civilizations in the world, dating back to 2500 BC in ancient
Mesopotamia. (citations omitted). I am aware of the intricacies of the dispute, but at the end of the day it really should just match the main article. We're not renaming any of the organisations, so we should be okay if you ask me. –MJL‐Talk‐☖ 12:28, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Well, OK, I wouldn't contend as long as it doesn't mean an obstacle to realising the merge.
PPEMES (
talk) 13:05, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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Delete - unused. 21:25, 29 April 2019 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Keith D (
talk •
contribs)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: A few more comments would be nice; also, just to clarify, the talkpage transclusions are inconsequential?
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Jo-Jo Eumerus (
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Delete/Redirect to
template:vcite journal. If deleted, pppery's plan can be implemented, selectively, so that discussions about this template don't point to the wrong thing. Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b} 14:07, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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Navigates very-few topics, such that these could linked (or are already linked) in the articles-proper.
Izno (
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unused after being merged (with attribution) with the parent article per consensus at
WT:FOOTYFrietjes (
talk) 15:09, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions.
GiantSnowman 09:02, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep the Saudi League table. It is being used in ~9 different Saudi club 2018–19 season pages as a transclusion.
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This band's navigational template consists of two links: one of the band's members and one of their albums. There is no article for the band itself because it redirects to the member's article. There are not enough articles to justify this navigational template and
WP:NENAN.
Aspects (
talk) 06:28, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete Not enough links.
...William, is the complaint department really on
the roof? 10:32, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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The result of the discussion was keep. This isn't going to develop a consensus for deletion
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions) 19:58, 15 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Administratively handling the request by
User:ElKevbo, who will write an actual nom...
DMacks (
talk) 03:07, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I'm nominating this template for deletion as it appears that the
website to which this template links appears to be very outdated and largely unmaintained making it unhelpful for readers at best and misleading or dangerous at worst.
ElKevbo (
talk) 03:09, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Comment - The template is currently transcluded on more than 5,000 articles. —
Godsy (
TALKCONT) 03:24, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep. Although link directories are not as important as they were in the past, DMOZ (currently hosted by Curlie) is still recognized as the most important one. Ironically enough, the best contender to link directories today is probably the External links sections of our Wikipedia articles.
And we don't want to turn them into directories. Linking to Curlie is generally harmless and provides a single link with a more extensive listing of
WP:EL type of material than our External links sections can or should hold. –
Finnusertop (
talk ⋅
contribs) 14:22, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Finnusertop: Is it still being actively maintained? My brief explorations in the areas I know seem to indicate that the links are very sporadic and frequently out-of-date which really makes me worry both about the utility of the site and the growing security risk of recommending that readers visit a list of links that don't lead to their original targets. It was a wonderful tool when it was actively maintained but I think its time has passed.
ElKevbo (
talk) 19:06, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Guess that depends on what you mean by "actively maintained",
ElKevbo. From what I understand, it used to be a lot busier. But the bunch still adds new entries and curates old ones. It's not a read-only copy of the original DMOZ database. –
Finnusertop (
talk ⋅
contribs) 19:55, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Curlie is not "very outdated"; categories are being maintained daily, admittedly with less editors than there were in the noughties, but there are lots of improvements since then, and Curlie is complementary since it saves Wikipedians having to deal with/ delete external links . . please keep! unsigned contribution by IP 86.185.0.142
@
ElKevbo: Please show me one page with dead links on Curlie. Thanks in advance! --
Murma174 (
talk) 05:41, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I don't recall (recently) running into any dead links; my experience has largely been of pages with a handful of links, often to an eclectic set of pages and no clear curation strategy.
ElKevbo (
talk) 11:06, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Comment. As an active
Curlie editor, I don't think I should !Vote here. However, the "dead link" removal bot is running again, and there was recently a mass mailing to all editors active when DMOZ was decommissioned by AOL. —
Arthur Rubin(talk) 10:12, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I think that your experience and knowledge could be very helpful in this discussion! Is there some analogue to our "Recent changes" page or up-to-date statistics that could help us understand the status of the project?
ElKevbo (
talk) 11:06, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete I think it is a problem to have an external links template where the template's internal link page (
Curlie, in this case) does not go to its Wikipedia page: a user who comes across the template cannot read aboth the provider of the external links to determine how much trust to put in the links it delivers.
UnitedStatesian (
talk) 19:49, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Strong keep Agree with
User:Finnusertop. These give us somewhere to send people who are interested in making collections of ELs.
Doc James (
talk ·
contribs ·
email) 09:33, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
(Ab)using External links sections to point certain editors to another website where they can create collections of external links isn't a valid reason to keep this template. If you want to teach editors, the software (MediaWiki) could be modified to show a note about link directories when editors are modifying External links sections. --
77.173.90.33 (
talk) 13:26, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
No, having a Mediawiki message when editors are modifying External links sections is not possible. I don't even think our filter setup can recognize that. —
Arthur Rubin(talk) 01:46, 9 May 2019 (UTC)reply
MediaWiki is free and open source software, licensed GPL2+. In theory, we can make it do whatever we want. If you don't believe me, ask the developers on IRC (#wikimedia-dev). --
77.173.90.33 (
talk) 10:50, 9 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep per
Finnusertop. As
Doc James has pointed out, having a link to Curlie in the external links section of an article helps us, and by linking to it we signpost users who want to curate a collection of websites to a more suitable place to do so than on Wikipedia articles. Many categories on Curlie are updated frequently. –
Ntmamgtw (
talk) 13:09, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
So, you would like to link to Curlie in every single External links section then, to point editors who want to curate a collection of websites in the right direction. --
77.173.90.33 (
talk) 13:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete As I
wrote in January 2019, the template should be deleted and the domain should be added to
WP:SPB. First, quoting
User:Acabashi, "Curlie, which has been added as a template to articles, is a depository allowing the liberal addition of spam links, so I would go further and add it to the list of banned sources." The template also makes it too easy to get around Wikipedia policy and guidelines (e.g. keeping links to a minimum, not linking to copyrighted works). There is a serious risk that fans of Curlie - including Curlie editors who want to promote their own pages - will add Curlie links to thousands and thousands of External links sections of Wikipedia. They've already started doing this. I too often run into External links sections where the very first link is to Curlie, even above the official website. Examples are
Alaska,
Government of Barbados,
Belfast,
Cardiff,
David Letterman,
Dundee,
Esperanto,
Hertfordshire,
Kent. Then there are External links sections where Curlie is the only external link, meaning we indirectly give our readers Curlie for further reading. Examples are
Alternative medicine,
Anime,
Analytical chemistry,
Alcoholism,
Blackjack,
Software,
Crime. We, the Wikipedia community, should pick what are useful external links; we should not rely on the non-notable Curlie do this for us. Curlie is not a sister project of Wikipedia. I don't want
Computer science#External links to start with a link to Curlie. I don't want any links to Curlie. This template was actually nominated for deletion twice already, in
2006 and
2017, and the only reasons this template was kept are a) pure laziness of Wikipedia editors who don't want to combat spam links and prefer to have another website's volunteers do that work, and b) votes to keep the template by DMOZ/Curlie editors. We need to take back control of our External links sections. On top of this, their
Terms state (emphasis mine): "Unless otherwise noted, you may view, copy, download, and print documents from Curlie so long as you use them only for personal, non-commercial purposes and do not post, distribute, or modify them or remove any copyright, trademark, or other proprietary notices." This goes against their claim of using CC BY 3.0. (Note: if they ever claim they will fix this contradiction, that's not the same as them actually changing it. Keep an eye on their terms.) --
77.173.90.33 (
talk) 13:14, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure what I can say about the internal organizational discussions. There was discussion about being acquired by Wikimedia, but discussion I can report from Resource Zone suggested that the editor community did not feel that the Wikipedia model was appropriate. I can report that Curlie's COI regulations seem incompatible with the Wikimedia Foundation's. Curlie allows editors with an apparent or actual COI to edit, as long as the questionable actions are neutral and reported to the metas. —
Arthur Rubin(talk) 01:44, 9 May 2019 (UTC)reply
It's a bit paranoid to think that just because we don't directly control something and it can go bad, it will we should stay as far away from it as possible. There is a world beyond Wikipedia that we don't control, yet we feel confident enough to rely on it. As for the previous keep closes; I was one of those supporting keep and I am not and have never been a DMOZ/Curlie contributor, so there are obviously other reasons than that for keeping. –
Finnusertop (
talk ⋅
contribs) 22:14, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep, so as not to go back to the days of having to deal with an endless stream of related links being dropped into medical articles. Per Doc James and Finneruserstop. And Arthur Rubin's information is encouraging.
SandyGeorgia (
Talk) 13:41, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete, per
77.173.90.33. I don't have a problem with an external link to this site, assuming the directory is up-to-date, and has a collection of useful links that it makes sense not to list on Wikipedia. But I worry that the template results in the problem 77 mentions, where every (or a number of major topics) EL section now has a link to Curly, but they don't align with us as far as CC license goes. =
paul2520 (
talk) 18:24, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep . . . but not "link to Curlie in every single External links section then, to point editors who want to curate a collection of websites in the right direction. --77.173.90.33 (talk) 13:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)"!
As the editor named in Analytical Chemistry for almost 20 years, I feel a need to respond to --77.173.90.33 (talk) 13:14, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
This was before I had even heard of Wikipedia, so it wasn't me who put the link to dMoz, and
looking at the wiki page, I still wouldn't list it on the grounds that the content isn't original.
That is not to say wiki pages aren't listed in subcategories.
The Curlie categories don't need to be mapped to every wiki pages, or vice versa.
I seem to remember contributers to wiki are encouraged to be bold, where as the opposite was true of culture in dMoz. ODP was less tolerant of vandalism.
Analytical Chemistry at
Curlie has approximately 500 website listings, leading to up to 5 subcategory layers of listings, but also that many waiting in "unreviewed", so we are not short of work, and there are lots of reasons other editors don't have time to participate in this thread.
Since those years, discovery of a gem is rare, and corporate submissions are the norm.
If wiki had no template, think of all those website owners adding to the external links section.
I am in no doubt that Curlie has more efficient systems of dealing with dead links, redirects and hijacks, than can be seen in wiki pages.
Deleting the template wouldn't be doing Wikipedians any favours, and with time you may realise Curlie is worth a page independent of DMOZ.
Comments.
See
DMOZ#Policies and procedures for information on the "admin" and "meta" levels, although I don't know if the "admin"s are the same as officers of the non-profit corporation now running
Curlie.org.
There is internal discussion about the license. As Curlie is now run by a non-profit corporation (at least, I think so — I haven't seen the corporate documents), and is accepting monetary donations (although not as obtrusively as the Wikimedia Foundation), there is a single (small) body to talk to about having an appropriate CC license.
Resource Zone (www.resource-zone.com) is an official editor-run web site, even before DMOZ was discontinued by AOL. I don't know if there is sufficient evidence for that to make pronouncements there "official", but there is subforum at
https://www.resource-zone.com/forum/f/announcements.10/ devoted to announcements (I don't know if only "admin"s, or also "meta"s, can post there.) I'll suggest that "what's new" be added there, as well as somewhere on curlie.org.
I'm not sure what I'm allowed to report from the internal fora I to which I have access. I'll suggest that one of the "admin"s make a post in an appropriate place.
Keep In each article authors can decide, whether they link to Curlie or not. But that's no reason to delete the template. The template is a useful tool, it may be used or not. --
Murma174 (
talk) 10:46, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep Very high value for reducing link bloat per
WP:EL. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 21:03, 12 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep - I agree with everyone who values this for taking pressure off our External links sections. ~
Kvng (
talk) 16:18, 15 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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The result of the discussion was delete after replacement with {{Infobox settlement}}. —
JJMC89 (
T·C) 00:09, 14 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Replace and delete - regions/departments, districts, towns etc. already transclude {{Infobox settlement}} directly.
Province-specific wrapper for {{Infobox settlement}}, with limited transclusions, on pretty stable sets of articles. Subst:itution will reduce the maintenance overhead, reduce the cognitive burden for editors, and enable articles to benefit more immediately from improvements to the current parent template.
Note: Despite being named "Infobox settlement" the template is not only used for settlements. Per its documentation, Infobox settlement is "used to produce an Infobox for human settlements (cities, towns, villages, communities) as well as other administrative districts, counties, provinces, et cetera—in fact, any subdivision below the level of a country".
77.183.32.215 (
talk) 01:41, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Please stop nominating templates for deletion without adding {{
subst:tfd}} to them.
* Pppery *survives 19:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Replace and delete - per nom. Simplify editing and maintenance.
TerraCyprus (
talk) 00:03, 13 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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Not a template; creator authored an article space page with the same name, deleted as
WP:A7.
Drm310🍁 (
talk) 21:19, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus.
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DannyS712 (
talk) 07:18, 19 April 2019 (UTC)reply
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Jo-Jo Eumerus (
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The result of the discussion was no consensus. But, feel free to make a different merge proposal
Plastikspork―Œ(talk) 23:37, 24 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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DannyS712 (
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Jo-Jo Eumerus (
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Not sure, but since terminology has been rather an issue in this topic, perhaps it should remain "Template:Assyrian/Syriac/Chaldean political parties"?
PPEMES (
talk) 07:13, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
@
PPEMES: Wasn't your original proposal to just call it {{Assyrian people footer}}? Also, per our article on
Assyrian people, Assyrian people (
Syriac: ܐܫܘܪܝܐ), or Syriacs (see
terms for Syriac Christians), are an
ethnic group indigenous to
Western Asia. Some of them self-identify as Arameans, or as Chaldeans. Speakers of modern
Aramaic and as well as the primary languages in their countries of residence, modern Assyrians are
Syriac Christians who
claim descent from Assyria, one of the oldest civilizations in the world, dating back to 2500 BC in ancient
Mesopotamia. (citations omitted). I am aware of the intricacies of the dispute, but at the end of the day it really should just match the main article. We're not renaming any of the organisations, so we should be okay if you ask me. –MJL‐Talk‐☖ 12:28, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Well, OK, I wouldn't contend as long as it doesn't mean an obstacle to realising the merge.
PPEMES (
talk) 13:05, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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Delete - unused. 21:25, 29 April 2019 (UTC) — Preceding
unsigned comment added by
Keith D (
talk •
contribs)
Relisted to generate a more thorough discussion and clearer consensus. Relisting comment: A few more comments would be nice; also, just to clarify, the talkpage transclusions are inconsequential?
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Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions) 20:15, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete/Redirect to
template:vcite journal. If deleted, pppery's plan can be implemented, selectively, so that discussions about this template don't point to the wrong thing. Headbomb {
t ·
c ·
p ·
b} 14:07, 18 May 2019 (UTC)reply
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Navigates very-few topics, such that these could linked (or are already linked) in the articles-proper.
Izno (
talk) 14:07, 24 April 2019 (UTC)reply
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unused after being merged (with attribution) with the parent article per consensus at
WT:FOOTYFrietjes (
talk) 15:09, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Note: This discussion has been included in
WikiProject Football's list of association football-related deletions.
GiantSnowman 09:02, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep the Saudi League table. It is being used in ~9 different Saudi club 2018–19 season pages as a transclusion.
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talk page or in a
deletion review).
This band's navigational template consists of two links: one of the band's members and one of their albums. There is no article for the band itself because it redirects to the member's article. There are not enough articles to justify this navigational template and
WP:NENAN.
Aspects (
talk) 06:28, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete Not enough links.
...William, is the complaint department really on
the roof? 10:32, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
talk page or in a
deletion review).
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
talk page or in a
deletion review).
The result of the discussion was keep. This isn't going to develop a consensus for deletion
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk,
contributions) 19:58, 15 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Administratively handling the request by
User:ElKevbo, who will write an actual nom...
DMacks (
talk) 03:07, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I'm nominating this template for deletion as it appears that the
website to which this template links appears to be very outdated and largely unmaintained making it unhelpful for readers at best and misleading or dangerous at worst.
ElKevbo (
talk) 03:09, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Comment - The template is currently transcluded on more than 5,000 articles. —
Godsy (
TALKCONT) 03:24, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep. Although link directories are not as important as they were in the past, DMOZ (currently hosted by Curlie) is still recognized as the most important one. Ironically enough, the best contender to link directories today is probably the External links sections of our Wikipedia articles.
And we don't want to turn them into directories. Linking to Curlie is generally harmless and provides a single link with a more extensive listing of
WP:EL type of material than our External links sections can or should hold. –
Finnusertop (
talk ⋅
contribs) 14:22, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
@
Finnusertop: Is it still being actively maintained? My brief explorations in the areas I know seem to indicate that the links are very sporadic and frequently out-of-date which really makes me worry both about the utility of the site and the growing security risk of recommending that readers visit a list of links that don't lead to their original targets. It was a wonderful tool when it was actively maintained but I think its time has passed.
ElKevbo (
talk) 19:06, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Guess that depends on what you mean by "actively maintained",
ElKevbo. From what I understand, it used to be a lot busier. But the bunch still adds new entries and curates old ones. It's not a read-only copy of the original DMOZ database. –
Finnusertop (
talk ⋅
contribs) 19:55, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Curlie is not "very outdated"; categories are being maintained daily, admittedly with less editors than there were in the noughties, but there are lots of improvements since then, and Curlie is complementary since it saves Wikipedians having to deal with/ delete external links . . please keep! unsigned contribution by IP 86.185.0.142
@
ElKevbo: Please show me one page with dead links on Curlie. Thanks in advance! --
Murma174 (
talk) 05:41, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I don't recall (recently) running into any dead links; my experience has largely been of pages with a handful of links, often to an eclectic set of pages and no clear curation strategy.
ElKevbo (
talk) 11:06, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Comment. As an active
Curlie editor, I don't think I should !Vote here. However, the "dead link" removal bot is running again, and there was recently a mass mailing to all editors active when DMOZ was decommissioned by AOL. —
Arthur Rubin(talk) 10:12, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I think that your experience and knowledge could be very helpful in this discussion! Is there some analogue to our "Recent changes" page or up-to-date statistics that could help us understand the status of the project?
ElKevbo (
talk) 11:06, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete I think it is a problem to have an external links template where the template's internal link page (
Curlie, in this case) does not go to its Wikipedia page: a user who comes across the template cannot read aboth the provider of the external links to determine how much trust to put in the links it delivers.
UnitedStatesian (
talk) 19:49, 7 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Strong keep Agree with
User:Finnusertop. These give us somewhere to send people who are interested in making collections of ELs.
Doc James (
talk ·
contribs ·
email) 09:33, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
(Ab)using External links sections to point certain editors to another website where they can create collections of external links isn't a valid reason to keep this template. If you want to teach editors, the software (MediaWiki) could be modified to show a note about link directories when editors are modifying External links sections. --
77.173.90.33 (
talk) 13:26, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
No, having a Mediawiki message when editors are modifying External links sections is not possible. I don't even think our filter setup can recognize that. —
Arthur Rubin(talk) 01:46, 9 May 2019 (UTC)reply
MediaWiki is free and open source software, licensed GPL2+. In theory, we can make it do whatever we want. If you don't believe me, ask the developers on IRC (#wikimedia-dev). --
77.173.90.33 (
talk) 10:50, 9 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep per
Finnusertop. As
Doc James has pointed out, having a link to Curlie in the external links section of an article helps us, and by linking to it we signpost users who want to curate a collection of websites to a more suitable place to do so than on Wikipedia articles. Many categories on Curlie are updated frequently. –
Ntmamgtw (
talk) 13:09, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
So, you would like to link to Curlie in every single External links section then, to point editors who want to curate a collection of websites in the right direction. --
77.173.90.33 (
talk) 13:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete As I
wrote in January 2019, the template should be deleted and the domain should be added to
WP:SPB. First, quoting
User:Acabashi, "Curlie, which has been added as a template to articles, is a depository allowing the liberal addition of spam links, so I would go further and add it to the list of banned sources." The template also makes it too easy to get around Wikipedia policy and guidelines (e.g. keeping links to a minimum, not linking to copyrighted works). There is a serious risk that fans of Curlie - including Curlie editors who want to promote their own pages - will add Curlie links to thousands and thousands of External links sections of Wikipedia. They've already started doing this. I too often run into External links sections where the very first link is to Curlie, even above the official website. Examples are
Alaska,
Government of Barbados,
Belfast,
Cardiff,
David Letterman,
Dundee,
Esperanto,
Hertfordshire,
Kent. Then there are External links sections where Curlie is the only external link, meaning we indirectly give our readers Curlie for further reading. Examples are
Alternative medicine,
Anime,
Analytical chemistry,
Alcoholism,
Blackjack,
Software,
Crime. We, the Wikipedia community, should pick what are useful external links; we should not rely on the non-notable Curlie do this for us. Curlie is not a sister project of Wikipedia. I don't want
Computer science#External links to start with a link to Curlie. I don't want any links to Curlie. This template was actually nominated for deletion twice already, in
2006 and
2017, and the only reasons this template was kept are a) pure laziness of Wikipedia editors who don't want to combat spam links and prefer to have another website's volunteers do that work, and b) votes to keep the template by DMOZ/Curlie editors. We need to take back control of our External links sections. On top of this, their
Terms state (emphasis mine): "Unless otherwise noted, you may view, copy, download, and print documents from Curlie so long as you use them only for personal, non-commercial purposes and do not post, distribute, or modify them or remove any copyright, trademark, or other proprietary notices." This goes against their claim of using CC BY 3.0. (Note: if they ever claim they will fix this contradiction, that's not the same as them actually changing it. Keep an eye on their terms.) --
77.173.90.33 (
talk) 13:14, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
I'm not sure what I can say about the internal organizational discussions. There was discussion about being acquired by Wikimedia, but discussion I can report from Resource Zone suggested that the editor community did not feel that the Wikipedia model was appropriate. I can report that Curlie's COI regulations seem incompatible with the Wikimedia Foundation's. Curlie allows editors with an apparent or actual COI to edit, as long as the questionable actions are neutral and reported to the metas. —
Arthur Rubin(talk) 01:44, 9 May 2019 (UTC)reply
It's a bit paranoid to think that just because we don't directly control something and it can go bad, it will we should stay as far away from it as possible. There is a world beyond Wikipedia that we don't control, yet we feel confident enough to rely on it. As for the previous keep closes; I was one of those supporting keep and I am not and have never been a DMOZ/Curlie contributor, so there are obviously other reasons than that for keeping. –
Finnusertop (
talk ⋅
contribs) 22:14, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep, so as not to go back to the days of having to deal with an endless stream of related links being dropped into medical articles. Per Doc James and Finneruserstop. And Arthur Rubin's information is encouraging.
SandyGeorgia (
Talk) 13:41, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Delete, per
77.173.90.33. I don't have a problem with an external link to this site, assuming the directory is up-to-date, and has a collection of useful links that it makes sense not to list on Wikipedia. But I worry that the template results in the problem 77 mentions, where every (or a number of major topics) EL section now has a link to Curly, but they don't align with us as far as CC license goes. =
paul2520 (
talk) 18:24, 8 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep . . . but not "link to Curlie in every single External links section then, to point editors who want to curate a collection of websites in the right direction. --77.173.90.33 (talk) 13:29, 8 May 2019 (UTC)"!
As the editor named in Analytical Chemistry for almost 20 years, I feel a need to respond to --77.173.90.33 (talk) 13:14, 8 May 2019 (UTC)
This was before I had even heard of Wikipedia, so it wasn't me who put the link to dMoz, and
looking at the wiki page, I still wouldn't list it on the grounds that the content isn't original.
That is not to say wiki pages aren't listed in subcategories.
The Curlie categories don't need to be mapped to every wiki pages, or vice versa.
I seem to remember contributers to wiki are encouraged to be bold, where as the opposite was true of culture in dMoz. ODP was less tolerant of vandalism.
Analytical Chemistry at
Curlie has approximately 500 website listings, leading to up to 5 subcategory layers of listings, but also that many waiting in "unreviewed", so we are not short of work, and there are lots of reasons other editors don't have time to participate in this thread.
Since those years, discovery of a gem is rare, and corporate submissions are the norm.
If wiki had no template, think of all those website owners adding to the external links section.
I am in no doubt that Curlie has more efficient systems of dealing with dead links, redirects and hijacks, than can be seen in wiki pages.
Deleting the template wouldn't be doing Wikipedians any favours, and with time you may realise Curlie is worth a page independent of DMOZ.
Comments.
See
DMOZ#Policies and procedures for information on the "admin" and "meta" levels, although I don't know if the "admin"s are the same as officers of the non-profit corporation now running
Curlie.org.
There is internal discussion about the license. As Curlie is now run by a non-profit corporation (at least, I think so — I haven't seen the corporate documents), and is accepting monetary donations (although not as obtrusively as the Wikimedia Foundation), there is a single (small) body to talk to about having an appropriate CC license.
Resource Zone (www.resource-zone.com) is an official editor-run web site, even before DMOZ was discontinued by AOL. I don't know if there is sufficient evidence for that to make pronouncements there "official", but there is subforum at
https://www.resource-zone.com/forum/f/announcements.10/ devoted to announcements (I don't know if only "admin"s, or also "meta"s, can post there.) I'll suggest that "what's new" be added there, as well as somewhere on curlie.org.
I'm not sure what I'm allowed to report from the internal fora I to which I have access. I'll suggest that one of the "admin"s make a post in an appropriate place.
Keep In each article authors can decide, whether they link to Curlie or not. But that's no reason to delete the template. The template is a useful tool, it may be used or not. --
Murma174 (
talk) 10:46, 10 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep Very high value for reducing link bloat per
WP:EL. ―
Justin (koavf)❤
T☮
C☺
M☯ 21:03, 12 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Keep - I agree with everyone who values this for taking pressure off our External links sections. ~
Kvng (
talk) 16:18, 15 May 2019 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
talk page or in a
deletion review).
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
talk page or in a
deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete after replacement with {{Infobox settlement}}. —
JJMC89 (
T·C) 00:09, 14 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Replace and delete - regions/departments, districts, towns etc. already transclude {{Infobox settlement}} directly.
Province-specific wrapper for {{Infobox settlement}}, with limited transclusions, on pretty stable sets of articles. Subst:itution will reduce the maintenance overhead, reduce the cognitive burden for editors, and enable articles to benefit more immediately from improvements to the current parent template.
Note: Despite being named "Infobox settlement" the template is not only used for settlements. Per its documentation, Infobox settlement is "used to produce an Infobox for human settlements (cities, towns, villages, communities) as well as other administrative districts, counties, provinces, et cetera—in fact, any subdivision below the level of a country".
77.183.32.215 (
talk) 01:41, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Please stop nominating templates for deletion without adding {{
subst:tfd}} to them.
* Pppery *survives 19:12, 6 May 2019 (UTC)reply
Replace and delete - per nom. Simplify editing and maintenance.
TerraCyprus (
talk) 00:03, 13 May 2019 (UTC)reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's
talk page or in a
deletion review).