The result of the discussion was delete. — JJMC89 ( T· C) 02:55, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Navbox template only contains redlinks so it cannot be used for navigation. No transclusions. BLAIXX 22:20, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was redirect to Template:2017 Liga 2 tables. — JJMC89 ( T· C) 02:56, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
unused templates Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:55, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by RHaworth ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:46, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
unused templates Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:52, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
@
Zackmann08: Hi, just to recap:
I have been working on Welsh Alliance League and its seasons, having recently created the
2017–18 and
2018–19 seasons (while keeping 2018–19 up to date). I then wanted to go back to all the way to when the league started in the 1984–85 season. So I created league table templates from
1984–85 season to date. I was next going to work my way back through the seasons and create and update all seasons (using these league table templates in the articles). So to see 'Nomination for Deletion' come about feels unfair considering that I am currently working my way through. I'm sorry @
Zackmann08: if I caused offence when I replied to you first about the nomination for deletion but it did throw me back. I understand that you don't want unused templates to exist but these templates will be used. I am just getting round to implementing them into the articles. If you look at my contributions you will see that I have made many contributions to the Welsh Alliance League, which is a mammoth task. I have enjoyed contributing to Wikipedia and would like to continue in doing so.
:@
Onshore: no one ever said you couldn't keep contributing... If you have an objection to the deletion, then discuss it at the TFD. That is what it is for... --'
Zackmann (
Talk to me/
What I been doing)
21:17, 21 February 2019 (UTC)'
Please advise how I go about resolving this issue so that those templates are not deleted? Onshore ( talk) 21:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Although I think will look messy with 2 divisional tables from the 2010–11 season onwards, I will cut and paste the tables from the corresponding templates and paste them to the corresponding articles as I go about creating and updating existing articles. I've got 35 seasons to do, so please bear with me and hopefully all this can be done with next few weeks for the templates to be deleted. Can I just ask, why we're the league table templates created for use on Wikipedia in the first place if we are now reverting back to how they were pre-League table templates? Onshore ( talk) 22:24, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
@ Nigej:@ GiantSnowman:As I mentioned above I originally created those template league table pages to replace the league tables in the articles. My original plan was to create all 35 seasons of the league table templates and then create/update all 35 season article pages with them. However, after the discussions on here I will now cut the league tables from the templates and paste them into the actual article season they relate to. Hence all 44 templates (35 seasons) eventually being deleted. I will get try and get this done as soon as possible. Onshore ( talk) 12:47, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was Withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 17:11, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
unused templates Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:49, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was relisted on 2019 February 28. (non-admin closure) Hhkohh ( talk) 21:43, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Hhkohh ( talk) 21:39, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
unused template Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:48, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was no consensus. Now only using an article, not unused. (non-admin closure) Hhkohh ( talk) 21:39, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
unused template Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:47, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:50, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Unused templates. Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:27, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
|align=center|[[Template:1963–64 Big Sky men's basketball standings|1964]]
. --
Gonnym (
talk)
07:24, 22 February 2019 (UTC)The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 17:11, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
I propose that this infobox is deprecated, selectively changed to already existing infoboxes by manual review, and deleted. In this nomination, I will first provide arguments that all (semi-)exclusive fields that this infobox provides are either not exclusive to this infobox, or are unnecessary/harmful. After that, I will examine the arguments in the last discussion. Finally, I will provide examples on how to do the merging. Just a note that I am not nominating {{ infobox Twitch streamer}} here in order to minimize the possibility of a "no consensus" close, and that I will nominate that infobox for similar deprecation if this proposal succeeds. Also note that this infobox is often used as a module, and my arguments will hopefully be convincing enough that this infobox is not useful/helpful even as a module. This infobox has previously been discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject YouTube.
The more or less uncontroversial stuff first. {{
infobox YouTube personality}} is similar to many other infoboxes e.g. with |name=
, |logo=
and |logo_caption=
. One of the fields present in other infoboxes is |website=
, where we get to the first violation of other infoboxes' standards because the YouTube infobox has |website=
AND |channel_url=
AND |channel_website=
which all three generate different fields in the infobox. {{
infobox person}} says about |website=
the following: "Official website only. Unofficial websites should be placed under ==External links==
in the body of the article." {{
infobox company}} should obviously have only one website listed, as listing its YouTube channel(s) would almost run afoul of
WP:NOTSPAM. {{
infobox television}} has both |website=
and |production_website=
. Now about the biographical parameters. They are all already in {{
infobox person}}. I also count |pseudonym=
as biographical, and it has obvious solutions in other infoboxes e.g. |other_names=
in {{
infobox person}}. I didn't talk about the fact that the YouTube infobox has both |logo=
and |image=
. This is the same as in {{
infobox company}}, while I think it is either unnecessary or runs into copyright problems elsewhere. |location=
can also be found in other appropriate infoboxes so it's easily assimilated. |creator=
and |presenter=
are nothing when compared to all the parameters of {{
infobox television}}. |years_active=
is from {{
infobox person}}, {{
infobox television}} has better alternatives of |first_aired=
and |last_aired=
, and other infoboxes also have the ability to accept some form of "start year" and "end year".
Now onto the parameters created specifically for this infobox. |genre=
and |associated_acts=
need to go away even if my proposal fails. YouTube is not music, and other than at {{
infobox musician}} and similar, these two parameters do not belong anywhere. They aren't at {{
infobox scientist}} or {{
infobox person}} even though they are at least as useful as on the YouTube infobox. Don't forget that the YouTube infobox is the last place you'd put |associated_acts=
, since this single infobox parameter has generated hundreds of talk page debates over its use on various infoboxes. I can imagine |genre=
becoming similarly contentious sooner or later, as editors have
strongly opposed my proposal to create a list of YouTubers by genre. |catchphrase(s)=
is unencyclopedic and per
WP:NOTQUOTE Wikipedia is not WikiQuote. |network=
is not something I'd be extremely worried about, as there are alternatives at {{
infobox television}} and {{
infobox person}}. YouTube networks are almost a thing of the past now, and most YouTubers had a network for just a short time. Not to mention that these networks don't make much difference to one's channel.
YouTube Play Buttons are very controversial and almost always come too late, so I support removing them from any infobox. We are left with only the number of subscribers and views. The number of subscribers is unreliable (as explained at
Talk:Mark Dice and at
WT:WPYT), often useless, often spam, but what can you expect when YouTube constantly lies about everything and only admits fault when it's too late. Maybe in the future we can revisit this, but Internet popularity numbers are not a metric I trust too much, and they change all the time so we can't provide a
reliable source to satisfy the
verifiability policy. The number of views that a YouTube channel has is of little relevance to all but the most popular channels. The problems are also the same as those about subscriber counts, and neither of {{
infobox film}} or {{
infobox television}} supports a similar field. In short,
WP:NOTSTATS.
The previous discussion had many similar arguments, and I will try to answer the keep !votes. An argument is that being a YouTuber is an occupation. However, that occupation is extremely diverse, which is shown by the uselessness of the term "content creator" which was a proposed rename of this infobox. Here I bring much more arguments than last time, because the previous nomination wasn't convincing in my opinion. There was the argument to delete because this is unnecessary branding of YouTube. I agree with that, and it may be useful to come up with some infobox that covers people popular for their content on the Internet, if this proposal fails. Many of the arguments boiled down to whether some infobox parameter was useful or not, but that is not a very good argument.
The already existing infoboxes that I believe cover all instances of this infobox are the following: {{ infobox person}} (or an appropriate infobox from Category:People and person infobox templates or Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Infoboxes, which will almost always be more useful than the YouTube infobox), {{ infobox musical artist}}, {{ infobox company}}, {{ infobox television}}, {{ infobox podcast}}, some infobox from Template:Film- and television-related infobox templates. {{ infobox presenter}} will be very useful. Articles about groups of people who have a YouTube channel (e.g. Dude Perfect), as well as articles about YouTube channels that are synonymous with a group (e.g. Sorted Food and Hat Films), should employ a biographical infobox. I'm not exactly sure about articles like ChuChu TV which are only about the YouTube channel, but I believe that {{ infobox television}} or something similar will suffice. Webseries already use {{ infobox television}}. wumbolo ^^^ 17:33, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
|catchphrase(s)=
and |associated_acts=
. The first one violates
WP:NOT, while the other one provides little value yet cause a lot of meta-discussion.
wumbolo
^^^
17:56, 14 February 2019 (UTC)|employer=
instead of |network=
. If {{
infobox television}} could be embedded into {{
infobox person}}, it would be more flexible here. The only other difference is that {{
infobox person}} doesn't support |origin=
which I replaced with |birth_place=
in this situation. Also |website=
is different but it makes it look better in my opinion.
wumbolo
^^^
19:28, 14 February 2019 (UTC)Alternative infobox
| ||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
has the creators' names under "Born:", and calls them "entertainers."? wumbolo ^^^ 10:42, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
References
|network=
and it can be embedded into {{
infobox person}}.
wumbolo
^^^
19:21, 20 February 2019 (UTC)Keep per comments above. I have nothing more to say. Oshawott 12 ==()== Talk to me! 11:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
|channel_url=
AND |channel_website=
and other channel parms need streamlining. --
Auric
talk
11:55, 28 February 2019 (UTC)The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Hhkohh ( talk) 15:35, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Fails WP:NAVBOX #4: "There should be a Wikipedia article on the subject of the template." The main article was deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FIBA Intercontinental Cup Decisive Game Top Scorer. Note, the creator moved this template to its current name after that AfD. [1] Let's prevent WP:TCREEP. — Bagumba ( talk) 12:20, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was relisted on 2019 February 28. (non-admin closure) Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 17:10, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was delete. — JJMC89 ( T· C) 02:55, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
Navbox template only contains redlinks so it cannot be used for navigation. No transclusions. BLAIXX 22:20, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was redirect to Template:2017 Liga 2 tables. — JJMC89 ( T· C) 02:56, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
unused templates Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:55, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was Delete; deleted by RHaworth ( talk · contribs · blocks · protections · deletions · page moves · rights · RfA) AnomieBOT ⚡ 20:46, 2 March 2019 (UTC)
unused templates Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:52, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
@
Zackmann08: Hi, just to recap:
I have been working on Welsh Alliance League and its seasons, having recently created the
2017–18 and
2018–19 seasons (while keeping 2018–19 up to date). I then wanted to go back to all the way to when the league started in the 1984–85 season. So I created league table templates from
1984–85 season to date. I was next going to work my way back through the seasons and create and update all seasons (using these league table templates in the articles). So to see 'Nomination for Deletion' come about feels unfair considering that I am currently working my way through. I'm sorry @
Zackmann08: if I caused offence when I replied to you first about the nomination for deletion but it did throw me back. I understand that you don't want unused templates to exist but these templates will be used. I am just getting round to implementing them into the articles. If you look at my contributions you will see that I have made many contributions to the Welsh Alliance League, which is a mammoth task. I have enjoyed contributing to Wikipedia and would like to continue in doing so.
:@
Onshore: no one ever said you couldn't keep contributing... If you have an objection to the deletion, then discuss it at the TFD. That is what it is for... --'
Zackmann (
Talk to me/
What I been doing)
21:17, 21 February 2019 (UTC)'
Please advise how I go about resolving this issue so that those templates are not deleted? Onshore ( talk) 21:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
Although I think will look messy with 2 divisional tables from the 2010–11 season onwards, I will cut and paste the tables from the corresponding templates and paste them to the corresponding articles as I go about creating and updating existing articles. I've got 35 seasons to do, so please bear with me and hopefully all this can be done with next few weeks for the templates to be deleted. Can I just ask, why we're the league table templates created for use on Wikipedia in the first place if we are now reverting back to how they were pre-League table templates? Onshore ( talk) 22:24, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
@ Nigej:@ GiantSnowman:As I mentioned above I originally created those template league table pages to replace the league tables in the articles. My original plan was to create all 35 seasons of the league table templates and then create/update all 35 season article pages with them. However, after the discussions on here I will now cut the league tables from the templates and paste them into the actual article season they relate to. Hence all 44 templates (35 seasons) eventually being deleted. I will get try and get this done as soon as possible. Onshore ( talk) 12:47, 22 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was Withdrawn. (non-admin closure) Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 17:11, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
unused templates Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:49, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was relisted on 2019 February 28. (non-admin closure) Hhkohh ( talk) 21:43, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Hhkohh ( talk) 21:39, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
unused template Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:48, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was no consensus. Now only using an article, not unused. (non-admin closure) Hhkohh ( talk) 21:39, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
unused template Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:47, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:50, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Unused templates. Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 18:27, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
|align=center|[[Template:1963–64 Big Sky men's basketball standings|1964]]
. --
Gonnym (
talk)
07:24, 22 February 2019 (UTC)The result of the discussion was keep. (non-admin closure) Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 17:11, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
I propose that this infobox is deprecated, selectively changed to already existing infoboxes by manual review, and deleted. In this nomination, I will first provide arguments that all (semi-)exclusive fields that this infobox provides are either not exclusive to this infobox, or are unnecessary/harmful. After that, I will examine the arguments in the last discussion. Finally, I will provide examples on how to do the merging. Just a note that I am not nominating {{ infobox Twitch streamer}} here in order to minimize the possibility of a "no consensus" close, and that I will nominate that infobox for similar deprecation if this proposal succeeds. Also note that this infobox is often used as a module, and my arguments will hopefully be convincing enough that this infobox is not useful/helpful even as a module. This infobox has previously been discussed at Wikipedia talk:WikiProject YouTube.
The more or less uncontroversial stuff first. {{
infobox YouTube personality}} is similar to many other infoboxes e.g. with |name=
, |logo=
and |logo_caption=
. One of the fields present in other infoboxes is |website=
, where we get to the first violation of other infoboxes' standards because the YouTube infobox has |website=
AND |channel_url=
AND |channel_website=
which all three generate different fields in the infobox. {{
infobox person}} says about |website=
the following: "Official website only. Unofficial websites should be placed under ==External links==
in the body of the article." {{
infobox company}} should obviously have only one website listed, as listing its YouTube channel(s) would almost run afoul of
WP:NOTSPAM. {{
infobox television}} has both |website=
and |production_website=
. Now about the biographical parameters. They are all already in {{
infobox person}}. I also count |pseudonym=
as biographical, and it has obvious solutions in other infoboxes e.g. |other_names=
in {{
infobox person}}. I didn't talk about the fact that the YouTube infobox has both |logo=
and |image=
. This is the same as in {{
infobox company}}, while I think it is either unnecessary or runs into copyright problems elsewhere. |location=
can also be found in other appropriate infoboxes so it's easily assimilated. |creator=
and |presenter=
are nothing when compared to all the parameters of {{
infobox television}}. |years_active=
is from {{
infobox person}}, {{
infobox television}} has better alternatives of |first_aired=
and |last_aired=
, and other infoboxes also have the ability to accept some form of "start year" and "end year".
Now onto the parameters created specifically for this infobox. |genre=
and |associated_acts=
need to go away even if my proposal fails. YouTube is not music, and other than at {{
infobox musician}} and similar, these two parameters do not belong anywhere. They aren't at {{
infobox scientist}} or {{
infobox person}} even though they are at least as useful as on the YouTube infobox. Don't forget that the YouTube infobox is the last place you'd put |associated_acts=
, since this single infobox parameter has generated hundreds of talk page debates over its use on various infoboxes. I can imagine |genre=
becoming similarly contentious sooner or later, as editors have
strongly opposed my proposal to create a list of YouTubers by genre. |catchphrase(s)=
is unencyclopedic and per
WP:NOTQUOTE Wikipedia is not WikiQuote. |network=
is not something I'd be extremely worried about, as there are alternatives at {{
infobox television}} and {{
infobox person}}. YouTube networks are almost a thing of the past now, and most YouTubers had a network for just a short time. Not to mention that these networks don't make much difference to one's channel.
YouTube Play Buttons are very controversial and almost always come too late, so I support removing them from any infobox. We are left with only the number of subscribers and views. The number of subscribers is unreliable (as explained at
Talk:Mark Dice and at
WT:WPYT), often useless, often spam, but what can you expect when YouTube constantly lies about everything and only admits fault when it's too late. Maybe in the future we can revisit this, but Internet popularity numbers are not a metric I trust too much, and they change all the time so we can't provide a
reliable source to satisfy the
verifiability policy. The number of views that a YouTube channel has is of little relevance to all but the most popular channels. The problems are also the same as those about subscriber counts, and neither of {{
infobox film}} or {{
infobox television}} supports a similar field. In short,
WP:NOTSTATS.
The previous discussion had many similar arguments, and I will try to answer the keep !votes. An argument is that being a YouTuber is an occupation. However, that occupation is extremely diverse, which is shown by the uselessness of the term "content creator" which was a proposed rename of this infobox. Here I bring much more arguments than last time, because the previous nomination wasn't convincing in my opinion. There was the argument to delete because this is unnecessary branding of YouTube. I agree with that, and it may be useful to come up with some infobox that covers people popular for their content on the Internet, if this proposal fails. Many of the arguments boiled down to whether some infobox parameter was useful or not, but that is not a very good argument.
The already existing infoboxes that I believe cover all instances of this infobox are the following: {{ infobox person}} (or an appropriate infobox from Category:People and person infobox templates or Wikipedia:WikiProject Biography/Infoboxes, which will almost always be more useful than the YouTube infobox), {{ infobox musical artist}}, {{ infobox company}}, {{ infobox television}}, {{ infobox podcast}}, some infobox from Template:Film- and television-related infobox templates. {{ infobox presenter}} will be very useful. Articles about groups of people who have a YouTube channel (e.g. Dude Perfect), as well as articles about YouTube channels that are synonymous with a group (e.g. Sorted Food and Hat Films), should employ a biographical infobox. I'm not exactly sure about articles like ChuChu TV which are only about the YouTube channel, but I believe that {{ infobox television}} or something similar will suffice. Webseries already use {{ infobox television}}. wumbolo ^^^ 17:33, 14 February 2019 (UTC)
|catchphrase(s)=
and |associated_acts=
. The first one violates
WP:NOT, while the other one provides little value yet cause a lot of meta-discussion.
wumbolo
^^^
17:56, 14 February 2019 (UTC)|employer=
instead of |network=
. If {{
infobox television}} could be embedded into {{
infobox person}}, it would be more flexible here. The only other difference is that {{
infobox person}} doesn't support |origin=
which I replaced with |birth_place=
in this situation. Also |website=
is different but it makes it look better in my opinion.
wumbolo
^^^
19:28, 14 February 2019 (UTC)Alternative infobox
| ||||||||||||||||||
---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|---|
|
has the creators' names under "Born:", and calls them "entertainers."? wumbolo ^^^ 10:42, 18 February 2019 (UTC)
References
|network=
and it can be embedded into {{
infobox person}}.
wumbolo
^^^
19:21, 20 February 2019 (UTC)Keep per comments above. I have nothing more to say. Oshawott 12 ==()== Talk to me! 11:32, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
|channel_url=
AND |channel_website=
and other channel parms need streamlining. --
Auric
talk
11:55, 28 February 2019 (UTC)The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Hhkohh ( talk) 15:35, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Fails WP:NAVBOX #4: "There should be a Wikipedia article on the subject of the template." The main article was deleted per Wikipedia:Articles for deletion/FIBA Intercontinental Cup Decisive Game Top Scorer. Note, the creator moved this template to its current name after that AfD. [1] Let's prevent WP:TCREEP. — Bagumba ( talk) 12:20, 21 February 2019 (UTC)
The result of the discussion was relisted on 2019 February 28. (non-admin closure) Zackmann ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 17:10, 28 February 2019 (UTC)