October 4
Template:Tom Petty
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was relisted on 2017 October 12. (non-admin closure) Nihlus 16:09, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:Tom_Petty ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
- Template:Tom_Petty_and_the_Heartbreakers ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
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Template:Spacecraft named Pathfinder
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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:02, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Seems to be used as a navbox but is only navigation 2 articles (fails the soft WP:NENAN requirement). These ships are also unrelated, so it directly fails to meet the criteria of WP:NAVBOX. Izno ( talk) 20:21, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- Support – Doesn't aid in navigation as the two articles reference each other at the very top of their pages. Nihlus 09:43, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Are the spacecraft in
Template:Spaceships named Enterprise related (except the orbiter and the starship)? And, @
Izno, please, don't call them "ships", as "spaceships" and "starships" don't exist! --
Aledownload (
talk) 13:38, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- That is a question answered by other stuff existing. -- Izno ( talk) 13:42, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
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Template:Acd
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The result of the discussion was delete. Deleted by Fastily. (non-admin closure) Pkbwcgs ( talk) 17:50, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:Acd ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Unused template from three years ago and I don't see any foreseeable use. Pkbwcgs ( talk) 18:08, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
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Template:Khowar language
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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:01, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:Khowar language ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Navboxes that don't provide useful navigation. There are only three relevant links: Khowar language, Khowar alphabet and possibly Anjuman-e-Tarraqui-e-Khowar. The rest are either generic articles, or redlinks to articles that either have been deleted at AfD or are unlikely to ever be created. – Uanfala
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:20, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
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Template:ToUSD
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. Please renominate the other template for any discussion concerning it. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:03, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:ToUSD ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Redundant to the more widely used and better documented {{ To USD}}. eh bien mon prince ( talk) 15:33, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- Support and add Template:ToUSDvalues to the list as well. Nihlus 09:45, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
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Template:List of role-playing video games
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. Specifically, the result was to replace this template with "labeled section transclusion" and delete. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:05, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
LST-ify This is exactly the same type of template as Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 October 30#.22List of killings.22 templates without significant_parameters (which was closed as LST-ify) and thus should be LST-ified for the same reason Ppp ery 18:13, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- That's a separate discussion. Could you please explain your reasoning here? I'm not sure what policy supports deletion, especially considering the massive amount of history from
SharkD and others. How does moving the text from the template to a linked section (and deleting the template) satisfy the attribution terms of GFDL and CC? Are you suggestion a cross-namespace redirect? ▫
JohnnyMrNinja 07:07, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- See the first bullet point of
WP:TG; this is needlessly storing article text in templates. As for attribution situations, the usual solution is to move the template to mainspace without leaving a redirect and then redirect it to the article.
Ppp
ery 22:04, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 05:14, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
- See the first bullet point of
WP:TG; this is needlessly storing article text in templates. As for attribution situations, the usual solution is to move the template to mainspace without leaving a redirect and then redirect it to the article.
Ppp
ery 22:04, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nihlus 11:01, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- LST-ify - Just to be 100% clear, Pppery answered my questions and I agree with their proposal. Other contributors were notified but do not appear to be interested. Really there appears to be nothing lost here, so why not just do it to comply with policy. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 04:15, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
Template:WP Kansas City Chiefs subproject
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The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:10, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Unused tag for project that went defunct in 2010 Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 06:31, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
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Template:WPNetherlands Improvement
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The result of the discussion was delete. Alex Shih Talk 17:38, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:WPNetherlands Improvement ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
- Template:WPNetherlands Improvement Nominees ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Both unused since 2008 Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 06:30, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- No objection to deletion as they seemed like a good idea at the time but have not been used, and are unlikely to be ever used. I am fine with whatever outcome of this discussion. Cheers and thanks for notifying me. Arnoutf ( talk) 06:44, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
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Template:Infobox Dalai Lama and Template:Infobox religious biography
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Merge. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:09, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:Infobox Dalai Lama ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
- Template:Infobox religious biography ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Propose merging
Template:Infobox Dalai Lama with
Template:Infobox religious biography.
per
WP:INFOCOL and
MOS:IB. -- Pankaj Jain
Capankajsmilyo (
talk ·
contribs ·
count) 08:26, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- Merge per nom.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 08:41, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
-
Template:Infobox Dalai Lama seems to have more in common with
Template:Infobox clergy. Why would we not merge with that instead?
tahc
chat 15:42, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- AIUI, the clergy template is for people of Christian persuasion; the religious biography one is for those who are not.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 15:52, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- There is nothing to make the clergy template is for clergy of Christian persuasion. Clergy is already a muli-religious term.
tahc
chat 16:27, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- The fact that it is in Category:Christian infobox templates might be a clue... Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:02, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- There is nothing to make the clergy template is for clergy of Christian persuasion. Clergy is already a muli-religious term.
tahc
chat 16:27, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- AIUI, the clergy template is for people of Christian persuasion; the religious biography one is for those who are not.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 15:52, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
-
Template:Infobox Dalai Lama seems to have more in common with
Template:Infobox clergy. Why would we not merge with that instead?
tahc
chat 15:42, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- Propose renaming
Template:Infobox religious biography to
Template:Infobox religious figures.
I find the design of "Infobox religious biography" to be suitable for folks like Samuel or Anna the Prophetess when not all editors agree if these are historical figures or merely literary figures. In many cases Wikipedia (or at least the infoboxes) doesn't need to specify (or cannot specify) who is of which type. Have an infobox that doesn't imply either way can save a lot of hassle and debate. Renaming will still make it suitable for historical figures and even more so for literary figures. Furthermore, many Wikipedia articles about historical figures are still not a "detailed description of that person's life"-- which what a biography is-- because it is just an encyclopedia article. tahc chat 15:33, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac ( talk) 17:58, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c) ( m) 03:33, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- Merge per nomination. Capitals00 ( talk) 15:02, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
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Template:Infobox carom billiards player
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was move to userspace. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 00:12, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
unused template Zackmann08 ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 02:45, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- I was asking on the talk page for help, but no one answered so far. If I want to use it in a right way, I will create it new. If you want, you can move it into my sandbox. Regards -- Rafael Zink ( talk) 07:46, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- Userfy is fine, per Rafael Zink's request(?) Alsee ( talk) 22:13, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- See discussion: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Templates#Help_with_Template:Infobox_carom_billiards_player. -- Rafael Zink ( talk) 08:49, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- Convert to wrapper of {{ Infobox person}}. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo ( talk · contribs · count) 09:03, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- Comment: Is
Template:Infobox snooker player usable in articles about carom billiards players? If so, there is no need for a new infobox. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 20:11, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- Courtesy ping to Rafael Zink regarding the above question. Primefac ( talk) 22:17, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
Relisting comment: Looking for more input on the {{ infobox snooker player}} angle.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac ( talk) 17:56, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- move to userspace and replace with {{ infobox snooker player}} in any articles. Frietjes ( talk) 14:41, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c) ( m) 03:32, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
October 4
Template:Tom Petty
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was relisted on 2017 October 12. (non-admin closure) Nihlus 16:09, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:Tom_Petty ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
- Template:Tom_Petty_and_the_Heartbreakers ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
Template:Spacecraft named Pathfinder
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:02, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Seems to be used as a navbox but is only navigation 2 articles (fails the soft WP:NENAN requirement). These ships are also unrelated, so it directly fails to meet the criteria of WP:NAVBOX. Izno ( talk) 20:21, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- Support – Doesn't aid in navigation as the two articles reference each other at the very top of their pages. Nihlus 09:43, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- Are the spacecraft in
Template:Spaceships named Enterprise related (except the orbiter and the starship)? And, @
Izno, please, don't call them "ships", as "spaceships" and "starships" don't exist! --
Aledownload (
talk) 13:38, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- That is a question answered by other stuff existing. -- Izno ( talk) 13:42, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
Template:Acd
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. Deleted by Fastily. (non-admin closure) Pkbwcgs ( talk) 17:50, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:Acd ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Unused template from three years ago and I don't see any foreseeable use. Pkbwcgs ( talk) 18:08, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
Template:Khowar language
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:01, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:Khowar language ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Navboxes that don't provide useful navigation. There are only three relevant links: Khowar language, Khowar alphabet and possibly Anjuman-e-Tarraqui-e-Khowar. The rest are either generic articles, or redlinks to articles that either have been deleted at AfD or are unlikely to ever be created. – Uanfala
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:20, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
Template:ToUSD
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. Please renominate the other template for any discussion concerning it. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:03, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:ToUSD ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Redundant to the more widely used and better documented {{ To USD}}. eh bien mon prince ( talk) 15:33, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- Support and add Template:ToUSDvalues to the list as well. Nihlus 09:45, 5 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
Template:List of role-playing video games
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. Specifically, the result was to replace this template with "labeled section transclusion" and delete. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:05, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
LST-ify This is exactly the same type of template as Wikipedia:Templates for discussion/Log/2016 October 30#.22List of killings.22 templates without significant_parameters (which was closed as LST-ify) and thus should be LST-ified for the same reason Ppp ery 18:13, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- That's a separate discussion. Could you please explain your reasoning here? I'm not sure what policy supports deletion, especially considering the massive amount of history from
SharkD and others. How does moving the text from the template to a linked section (and deleting the template) satisfy the attribution terms of GFDL and CC? Are you suggestion a cross-namespace redirect? ▫
JohnnyMrNinja 07:07, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- See the first bullet point of
WP:TG; this is needlessly storing article text in templates. As for attribution situations, the usual solution is to move the template to mainspace without leaving a redirect and then redirect it to the article.
Ppp
ery 22:04, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
- Sounds good to me. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 05:14, 30 September 2017 (UTC)
- See the first bullet point of
WP:TG; this is needlessly storing article text in templates. As for attribution situations, the usual solution is to move the template to mainspace without leaving a redirect and then redirect it to the article.
Ppp
ery 22:04, 24 September 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Nihlus 11:01, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- LST-ify - Just to be 100% clear, Pppery answered my questions and I agree with their proposal. Other contributors were notified but do not appear to be interested. Really there appears to be nothing lost here, so why not just do it to comply with policy. ▫ JohnnyMrNinja 04:15, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
Template:WP Kansas City Chiefs subproject
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:10, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
Unused tag for project that went defunct in 2010 Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 06:31, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
Template:WPNetherlands Improvement
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was delete. Alex Shih Talk 17:38, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:WPNetherlands Improvement ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
- Template:WPNetherlands Improvement Nominees ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Both unused since 2008 Ten Pound Hammer • ( What did I screw up now?) 06:30, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- No objection to deletion as they seemed like a good idea at the time but have not been used, and are unlikely to be ever used. I am fine with whatever outcome of this discussion. Cheers and thanks for notifying me. Arnoutf ( talk) 06:44, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
Template:Infobox Dalai Lama and Template:Infobox religious biography
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was Merge. (non-admin closure) Winged Blades of Godric On leave 16:09, 12 October 2017 (UTC)
- Template:Infobox Dalai Lama ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
- Template:Infobox religious biography ( talk · history · transclusions · logs · subpages)
Propose merging
Template:Infobox Dalai Lama with
Template:Infobox religious biography.
per
WP:INFOCOL and
MOS:IB. -- Pankaj Jain
Capankajsmilyo (
talk ·
contribs ·
count) 08:26, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- Merge per nom.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 08:41, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
-
Template:Infobox Dalai Lama seems to have more in common with
Template:Infobox clergy. Why would we not merge with that instead?
tahc
chat 15:42, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- AIUI, the clergy template is for people of Christian persuasion; the religious biography one is for those who are not.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 15:52, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- There is nothing to make the clergy template is for clergy of Christian persuasion. Clergy is already a muli-religious term.
tahc
chat 16:27, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- The fact that it is in Category:Christian infobox templates might be a clue... Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing); Talk to Andy; Andy's edits 18:02, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- There is nothing to make the clergy template is for clergy of Christian persuasion. Clergy is already a muli-religious term.
tahc
chat 16:27, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- AIUI, the clergy template is for people of Christian persuasion; the religious biography one is for those who are not.
Andy Mabbett (Pigsonthewing);
Talk to Andy;
Andy's edits 15:52, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
-
Template:Infobox Dalai Lama seems to have more in common with
Template:Infobox clergy. Why would we not merge with that instead?
tahc
chat 15:42, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
- Propose renaming
Template:Infobox religious biography to
Template:Infobox religious figures.
I find the design of "Infobox religious biography" to be suitable for folks like Samuel or Anna the Prophetess when not all editors agree if these are historical figures or merely literary figures. In many cases Wikipedia (or at least the infoboxes) doesn't need to specify (or cannot specify) who is of which type. Have an infobox that doesn't imply either way can save a lot of hassle and debate. Renaming will still make it suitable for historical figures and even more so for literary figures. Furthermore, many Wikipedia articles about historical figures are still not a "detailed description of that person's life"-- which what a biography is-- because it is just an encyclopedia article. tahc chat 15:33, 20 September 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac ( talk) 17:58, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c) ( m) 03:33, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- Merge per nomination. Capitals00 ( talk) 15:02, 7 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
Template:Infobox carom billiards player
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the template below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).
The result of the discussion was move to userspace. Plastikspork ―Œ(talk) 00:12, 19 October 2017 (UTC)
unused template Zackmann08 ( Talk to me/ What I been doing) 02:45, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- I was asking on the talk page for help, but no one answered so far. If I want to use it in a right way, I will create it new. If you want, you can move it into my sandbox. Regards -- Rafael Zink ( talk) 07:46, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- Userfy is fine, per Rafael Zink's request(?) Alsee ( talk) 22:13, 15 September 2017 (UTC)
- See discussion: Wikipedia_talk:WikiProject_Templates#Help_with_Template:Infobox_carom_billiards_player. -- Rafael Zink ( talk) 08:49, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- Convert to wrapper of {{ Infobox person}}. -- Pankaj Jain Capankajsmilyo ( talk · contribs · count) 09:03, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- Comment: Is
Template:Infobox snooker player usable in articles about carom billiards players? If so, there is no need for a new infobox. –
Jonesey95 (
talk) 20:11, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
- Courtesy ping to Rafael Zink regarding the above question. Primefac ( talk) 22:17, 16 September 2017 (UTC)
Relisting comment: Looking for more input on the {{ infobox snooker player}} angle.
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, Primefac ( talk) 17:56, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
- move to userspace and replace with {{ infobox snooker player}} in any articles. Frietjes ( talk) 14:41, 1 October 2017 (UTC)
Please add new comments below this notice. Thanks, J 947( c) ( m) 03:32, 4 October 2017 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the template's talk page or in a deletion review).