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January 25 Information
I need to translate an article of about 9,000 words from English to Hebrew. Can a user please suggest which is the best online translator to use. Thank you Simonschaim ( talk) 07:43, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Machine translators are notoriously unreliable. I find that to be especially true for languages that are genetically further apart and/or for complex sentences involving complicated grammar. For example, machine translation of a simple English sentence to Spanish often gives a comprehensible result that is close in meaning to the English. A machine translation of English to Thai, on the other hand, most often yields nonsense. That said, I have been surprised at the ability of machine translators with regards to Hebrew. Oftentimes a readable result can be obtained, but the Hebrew grammar may not be perfect and the words used may give a different connotation than expected from the English meaning. Here are two examples of Google Translate and Bing Translator, using the English of Ezra 1:2 as a sample text.
- English text: "Thus says Cyrus, King of Persia. The Lord God of Heaven has given all the kingdoms of the earth to me and has charged me to build him a house in Jerusalem that is in Judah."
- gives: כך אומר סיירוס, מלך פרס.אלוהים אלוהי שמים נתן לכל ממלכות הארץ אליי ופקד עליי לבנות לו בית בירושלים אשר ביהודה.
- When reversed, gives: "Thus says Cyrus, king of Frs.alohim God of heaven has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and commanded me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judea."
- Bing
- gives: כה אמר כורש, מלך פרס. שהאל השמים כל ממלכות הארץ נתן לי, האשימה אותי כדי לבנות לו בית בירושלים זה יהודה.
- When reversed, gives: "Thus saith Cyrus King of Persia. The Lord of heaven all the kingdoms of the Earth gave me, accusing me to build him a house in Jerusalem that Yehuda."
- So, as you can probably see, online translators are sometimes good if your goal is just to ascertain the basic gist of a piece of text, but not at all reliable for coherent translations of lengthy texts nor for any kind of formal translation. I've found that this holds true for every online translator with which I've experimented. They all seem equally good (bad). That's why people who make translations for a living earn the big bucks.-- William Thweatt Talk Contribs 08:41, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- That's because that's a Biblical text and online translators often have standard translations programmed into them. If you come up with your own Hebrew text and try to translate that, it will be complete nonsense. To translate an article of this length (assuming it is an article that Simonschaim wrote himself, or some other kind of publication), the best option is to find an actual human translator, but you'll have to pay them...something this size would typically cost several hundred dollars, at the very least. Adam Bishop ( talk) 12:34, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- If you're intending to use machine translation to create an article for Hebrew Wikipedia then the advice must be don't. Hebrew Wikipedia's page on translating articles, just like ours, says there is a consensus that uncorrected machine translations are worse than useless for that purpose. And how do I know it says that? Thank you, Google Translate! -- Antiquary ( talk) 13:08, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. Simonschaim ( talk) 09:16, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Question and responses were moved to Entertainment desk. ← Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:15, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
So I'm sending out three parcels (most likely via USPS) from New York that I would like to have reach their destinations on 14 February. One is going to the Washington, DC metro area, one is you going to the Atlanta metro-area, and the last and most tricky is going to Sydney, Australia. What's the latest I could send each out and have them arrive no later than the 14th? Cheers, all! Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 17:58, 25 January 2015 (UTC) Side-note: the parcel to Aus contains letters and packaged perfume and so I don't think there's any hold-up likely in customs. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 18:00, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- We can't give a direct prediction, especially since we won't know weather conditions. It also depend on the size and nature of the parcel, and what you're willing to pay, go to the USPS site, click on "buy postage" and do a dry run to get costs and estimated delivery times. I can tell you that a book sent from NY to Australia will take about 12-14 days, but that will vary widely with customs and how it's shipped. First class letters and priority rate packages in the US east (not rural) usually arrive in two business days, but they don't guarantee it. If you are willing to pay exhorbitantly, most items will go anywhere in two busines days.
μηδείς (
talk)
18:07, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- The two parcels in the US are each small (8.5 inch-long) papyrus scrolls ideally sent in the wee-est box they have that will fit, and the scrolls are probably less than 1 oz. They're predicting a massive snowstorm in the northeast this Monday, but this winter has been calmer than the last (when everything was covered in snow and ice and even Atlanta was covered in the black ice). Well, there's nothing worse than late valentines, so I probably would. Of course, Valentine's Day is a very busy mail day. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 18:21, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, the scoundrels won't show anything later than 1 February post dates. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 19:10, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Customs aside, perfumes, if they contain alcohol or other flammable solvents, may be prohibited in a number of postal systems at least when shipped by air (so generally always internationally since given the variety of postal systems it's difficult to guarantee it never goes by air), including Australia Post
[1]
[2] and USPS
[3]. (USPS appears to always allow domestic ground shipping of perfumes, Australia Post appears to allow domestic ground shipping by contract only
[4].) I think you will find the same for nearly all international couriers (definitely those sending from US to Australia given the only route besides air is sea), bearing in mind that these restrictions often come from civil air travel regulations. (It may be possible to send them by air commercially if you obey certain complex regulations, see e.g.
[5]). Presuming the perfume you plan to send does contain a alcohol or another flammable solvent, your best bet may be to find an Australian seller who accepts international credit cards and is able to ship domestically.
Nil Einne (
talk)
18:35, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Oh wow, I had no idea. They might have confiscated the package and tossed the letters. Thank you, Nil, you just saved my friend's Valentine's Day! Happily, I have a back-up gift for her if the need arises. I'll just hand off the perfumes in-person at a later date. They're very unusual and likely not sold in Aus. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 18:47, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Media mail is the cheepest rate, it applies to printed materials like scrolls (read the regs), it will get anywhere in the 48 within a buusiness week. μηδείς ( talk) 21:11, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- The scrolls can't be sent by medial mail as they're not educational material. They're the media for the Valentine's Day letters themselves, you see, and so I think First Class or Priority is the way to go. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 22:40, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- You might've already found out by now that "buy postage" is the wrong link to go. "Calculate a price" ( direct link here) is the way to go if you use USPS. TMCk ( talk) 22:58, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah, I checked it, but they don't let you estimate beyond 1 February right now. At least for domestic. I think I'll send the Aussie one some time prior to the start of next month. It took less than a week from the UK for a similar package, but I don't know about from the US. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 23:25, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Never saw that but then again I also never used it that way. Shouldn't make a difference tho at least if you pick the same day of the week since their trucks and planes run on a pretty much fixed schedule. More important is the time of the day you'll drop it off (or let them pick it up). TMCk ( talk) 23:43, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- We are talking about the time around Valentine's Day; when the USPS is filled up with parcels (similar to the situation on Christmas minus the federal holiday). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 6 Shevat 5775 05:47, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- - I doubt very much that Valentin's Day has the same impact as X-Mas time.
- There is no Fed. holiday in that timeline so no day off for USPS.
- You can check International mail beyond Feb 1.
Cheers, TMCk ( talk) 14:15, 26 January 2015 (UTC)- Now, now, no need for the the passive agressive listing (if that wasn't your intent, then apologies). I said similar, not the same as; by federal holiday I was referring to Christmas, and so I believe we're in agreement there. As for the Aussie package, I'll probably just send it sooner rather than later as not all of its contents are Valentine-related and she knows to wait on opening the things that are. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 6 Shevat 5775 15:52, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- - I doubt very much that Valentin's Day has the same impact as X-Mas time.
- At that (local) time of the day I keep it short or don't write at all :) So no, no "passive aggressive" intent on my side. TMCk ( talk) 17:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- Ah, then you have my sincerest apologies for the exceptionally rude assertion on my part. Also, I've a fourth one, this time for Italy. I think I'll just mail the Aussie and Italian ones on the 31st or sooner. The Italian one should arrive no later than Valentine's Day of next year and I can just blame the crappy postal service. As for the domestic ones, I guess the 10th of February. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 7 Shevat 5775 02:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
- For Christmas, the USPS was nice enough to mail me a flyer listing the final date the various classes of packages could be mailed and still arrive by Xmas. Unfortunately, the flyer didn't arrive until mid-January. True story. StuRat ( talk) 17:17, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- So what? The flyer came in early! :)) TMCk ( talk) 17:24, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- Better late than having something like a several k tax refund check not arrive. Sadly not a joke.... Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 7 Shevat 5775 02:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
| Miscellaneous desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < January 24 | << Dec | January | Feb >> | January 26 > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Miscellaneous Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
January 25 Information
I need to translate an article of about 9,000 words from English to Hebrew. Can a user please suggest which is the best online translator to use. Thank you Simonschaim ( talk) 07:43, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Machine translators are notoriously unreliable. I find that to be especially true for languages that are genetically further apart and/or for complex sentences involving complicated grammar. For example, machine translation of a simple English sentence to Spanish often gives a comprehensible result that is close in meaning to the English. A machine translation of English to Thai, on the other hand, most often yields nonsense. That said, I have been surprised at the ability of machine translators with regards to Hebrew. Oftentimes a readable result can be obtained, but the Hebrew grammar may not be perfect and the words used may give a different connotation than expected from the English meaning. Here are two examples of Google Translate and Bing Translator, using the English of Ezra 1:2 as a sample text.
- English text: "Thus says Cyrus, King of Persia. The Lord God of Heaven has given all the kingdoms of the earth to me and has charged me to build him a house in Jerusalem that is in Judah."
- gives: כך אומר סיירוס, מלך פרס.אלוהים אלוהי שמים נתן לכל ממלכות הארץ אליי ופקד עליי לבנות לו בית בירושלים אשר ביהודה.
- When reversed, gives: "Thus says Cyrus, king of Frs.alohim God of heaven has given me all the kingdoms of the earth and commanded me to build him a house in Jerusalem, which is in Judea."
- Bing
- gives: כה אמר כורש, מלך פרס. שהאל השמים כל ממלכות הארץ נתן לי, האשימה אותי כדי לבנות לו בית בירושלים זה יהודה.
- When reversed, gives: "Thus saith Cyrus King of Persia. The Lord of heaven all the kingdoms of the Earth gave me, accusing me to build him a house in Jerusalem that Yehuda."
- So, as you can probably see, online translators are sometimes good if your goal is just to ascertain the basic gist of a piece of text, but not at all reliable for coherent translations of lengthy texts nor for any kind of formal translation. I've found that this holds true for every online translator with which I've experimented. They all seem equally good (bad). That's why people who make translations for a living earn the big bucks.-- William Thweatt Talk Contribs 08:41, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- That's because that's a Biblical text and online translators often have standard translations programmed into them. If you come up with your own Hebrew text and try to translate that, it will be complete nonsense. To translate an article of this length (assuming it is an article that Simonschaim wrote himself, or some other kind of publication), the best option is to find an actual human translator, but you'll have to pay them...something this size would typically cost several hundred dollars, at the very least. Adam Bishop ( talk) 12:34, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- If you're intending to use machine translation to create an article for Hebrew Wikipedia then the advice must be don't. Hebrew Wikipedia's page on translating articles, just like ours, says there is a consensus that uncorrected machine translations are worse than useless for that purpose. And how do I know it says that? Thank you, Google Translate! -- Antiquary ( talk) 13:08, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
Thank you. Simonschaim ( talk) 09:16, 29 January 2015 (UTC)
Question and responses were moved to Entertainment desk. ← Baseball Bugs What's up, Doc? carrots→ 17:15, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
So I'm sending out three parcels (most likely via USPS) from New York that I would like to have reach their destinations on 14 February. One is going to the Washington, DC metro area, one is you going to the Atlanta metro-area, and the last and most tricky is going to Sydney, Australia. What's the latest I could send each out and have them arrive no later than the 14th? Cheers, all! Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 17:58, 25 January 2015 (UTC) Side-note: the parcel to Aus contains letters and packaged perfume and so I don't think there's any hold-up likely in customs. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 18:00, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- We can't give a direct prediction, especially since we won't know weather conditions. It also depend on the size and nature of the parcel, and what you're willing to pay, go to the USPS site, click on "buy postage" and do a dry run to get costs and estimated delivery times. I can tell you that a book sent from NY to Australia will take about 12-14 days, but that will vary widely with customs and how it's shipped. First class letters and priority rate packages in the US east (not rural) usually arrive in two business days, but they don't guarantee it. If you are willing to pay exhorbitantly, most items will go anywhere in two busines days.
μηδείς (
talk)
18:07, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- The two parcels in the US are each small (8.5 inch-long) papyrus scrolls ideally sent in the wee-est box they have that will fit, and the scrolls are probably less than 1 oz. They're predicting a massive snowstorm in the northeast this Monday, but this winter has been calmer than the last (when everything was covered in snow and ice and even Atlanta was covered in the black ice). Well, there's nothing worse than late valentines, so I probably would. Of course, Valentine's Day is a very busy mail day. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 18:21, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Unfortunately, the scoundrels won't show anything later than 1 February post dates. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 19:10, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Customs aside, perfumes, if they contain alcohol or other flammable solvents, may be prohibited in a number of postal systems at least when shipped by air (so generally always internationally since given the variety of postal systems it's difficult to guarantee it never goes by air), including Australia Post
[1]
[2] and USPS
[3]. (USPS appears to always allow domestic ground shipping of perfumes, Australia Post appears to allow domestic ground shipping by contract only
[4].) I think you will find the same for nearly all international couriers (definitely those sending from US to Australia given the only route besides air is sea), bearing in mind that these restrictions often come from civil air travel regulations. (It may be possible to send them by air commercially if you obey certain complex regulations, see e.g.
[5]). Presuming the perfume you plan to send does contain a alcohol or another flammable solvent, your best bet may be to find an Australian seller who accepts international credit cards and is able to ship domestically.
Nil Einne (
talk)
18:35, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Oh wow, I had no idea. They might have confiscated the package and tossed the letters. Thank you, Nil, you just saved my friend's Valentine's Day! Happily, I have a back-up gift for her if the need arises. I'll just hand off the perfumes in-person at a later date. They're very unusual and likely not sold in Aus. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 18:47, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Media mail is the cheepest rate, it applies to printed materials like scrolls (read the regs), it will get anywhere in the 48 within a buusiness week. μηδείς ( talk) 21:11, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- The scrolls can't be sent by medial mail as they're not educational material. They're the media for the Valentine's Day letters themselves, you see, and so I think First Class or Priority is the way to go. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 22:40, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- You might've already found out by now that "buy postage" is the wrong link to go. "Calculate a price" ( direct link here) is the way to go if you use USPS. TMCk ( talk) 22:58, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Yeah, I checked it, but they don't let you estimate beyond 1 February right now. At least for domestic. I think I'll send the Aussie one some time prior to the start of next month. It took less than a week from the UK for a similar package, but I don't know about from the US. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 5 Shevat 5775 23:25, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- Never saw that but then again I also never used it that way. Shouldn't make a difference tho at least if you pick the same day of the week since their trucks and planes run on a pretty much fixed schedule. More important is the time of the day you'll drop it off (or let them pick it up). TMCk ( talk) 23:43, 25 January 2015 (UTC)
- We are talking about the time around Valentine's Day; when the USPS is filled up with parcels (similar to the situation on Christmas minus the federal holiday). Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 6 Shevat 5775 05:47, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- - I doubt very much that Valentin's Day has the same impact as X-Mas time.
- There is no Fed. holiday in that timeline so no day off for USPS.
- You can check International mail beyond Feb 1.
Cheers, TMCk ( talk) 14:15, 26 January 2015 (UTC)- Now, now, no need for the the passive agressive listing (if that wasn't your intent, then apologies). I said similar, not the same as; by federal holiday I was referring to Christmas, and so I believe we're in agreement there. As for the Aussie package, I'll probably just send it sooner rather than later as not all of its contents are Valentine-related and she knows to wait on opening the things that are. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 6 Shevat 5775 15:52, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- - I doubt very much that Valentin's Day has the same impact as X-Mas time.
- At that (local) time of the day I keep it short or don't write at all :) So no, no "passive aggressive" intent on my side. TMCk ( talk) 17:20, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- Ah, then you have my sincerest apologies for the exceptionally rude assertion on my part. Also, I've a fourth one, this time for Italy. I think I'll just mail the Aussie and Italian ones on the 31st or sooner. The Italian one should arrive no later than Valentine's Day of next year and I can just blame the crappy postal service. As for the domestic ones, I guess the 10th of February. Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 7 Shevat 5775 02:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)
- For Christmas, the USPS was nice enough to mail me a flyer listing the final date the various classes of packages could be mailed and still arrive by Xmas. Unfortunately, the flyer didn't arrive until mid-January. True story. StuRat ( talk) 17:17, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- So what? The flyer came in early! :)) TMCk ( talk) 17:24, 26 January 2015 (UTC)
- Better late than having something like a several k tax refund check not arrive. Sadly not a joke.... Sir William Matthew Flinders Petrie | Say Shalom! 7 Shevat 5775 02:57, 27 January 2015 (UTC)