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May 27 Information
Ukrainian name
Chess grandmaster
Irina Krush (Ірина Круш) has been in the news lately
[1] and I'm wondering: 1) What if anything does the name Круш mean in Ukrainian? 2) Is it the same stem as that of the name of former Soviet premier
Nikita Krushchev? 3) Do the two of them have significant likelihood of being related? I.e. more likely than if you picked two random people from that region of the world. Thanks.
2601:648:8202:96B0:3567:50D5:8BFF:4588 (
talk) 23:34, 27 May 2020 (UTC)reply
For (2), the answer is almost certainly NO. The standard transliteration of Nikita's surname is Khrushchev, the Kh- coming from the Cyrillic letter X (Хрущёв), which is sort of like the ch in the Scottish "loch" (which is like an intensified h sound but, sadly, often gets the "lock" treatment). The K in Irina Krush's name is a straight k sound. To us, they're similar enough to be treated more or less identically. But to the Russians, they are very different indeed, the two letters being widely separated in their alphabet. --
Jack of Oz[pleasantries] 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)reply
English is an exception in Europe to have merged /x/ into /k/. The only other European languages to completely miss a /x/ sound I can think of are French and Italian.
93.136.158.189 (
talk) 11:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC) reply
I know what it means. I'd just like to see an example - other than Khrushchev, which isn't one. ←
Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 08:32, 30 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Khrushchev is certainly one. It should be like Hrushchóv, but gets Krúschev. --
Jack of Oz[pleasantries] 22:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply
What makes the Russian-borrowed example better than the Greek-borrowed examples? – Do people really pronounce Chanukah with initial /k/? —
Tamfang (
talk) 02:22, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply
No, with a guttural H, if they're doing it right. Although most (especially gentiles) probably say it with just a normal H. And are the Greeks roots pronounced with a guttural H? If so, they would qualify. ←
Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 10:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply
In his autobiography, Harpo Marx wrote with amusement about the Russian transliteration of his name, which corresponds with your explanation of the very-guttural and not-as-guttural K sounds: "XAPПO MAPKC", which he transliterated back into English as "Exapno Mapcase". ←
Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 17:46, 29 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I heard once that many Russians are aware of the political theorist Ном Чомски and the linguist Ноам Хомски but not of the link between them. —
Tamfang (
talk) 02:28, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply
A Dictionary of Surnames (Oxford 1988) gives Krusch (and forms with diminutive suffixes) as variants of Grushin, in either of two senses: first as a metronymic from Grusha, a pet form of Agrafya, from Latin Agrippina forsooth; second from grusha ‘pear’. ¶ The same book attributes Хрущёв to хрущ ‘
May beetle’. —
Tamfang (
talk) 00:45, 28 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Minor point; a Russian "May beetle" is more likely to be a
cockchafer, the insect in your link is an American thing. I cant read Russian but
ru:Хрущ майский западный has the Latin name for a common cockchafer.
Alansplodge (
talk) 18:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I lived through the Khrushchev era, and I can tell you "Nikita Cockchafer" would have gone down a treat. Not. --
Jack of Oz[pleasantries] 20:38, 28 May 2020 (UTC) reply
Russian: Хрущ is cognate with
Polish: chrząszcz, sometimes touted as the most unpronounceable word in Polish. See
chrząszcz. --
ColinFine (
talk) 13:24, 30 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Hmm. I've never heard the Jewish people in this area (of whom there are many) pronounce Chanucah, Chaim, etc. with anything other than a rasping "h".
80.44.94.255 (
talk) 16:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply
Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a
transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the
current reference desk pages.
May 27 Information
Ukrainian name
Chess grandmaster
Irina Krush (Ірина Круш) has been in the news lately
[1] and I'm wondering: 1) What if anything does the name Круш mean in Ukrainian? 2) Is it the same stem as that of the name of former Soviet premier
Nikita Krushchev? 3) Do the two of them have significant likelihood of being related? I.e. more likely than if you picked two random people from that region of the world. Thanks.
2601:648:8202:96B0:3567:50D5:8BFF:4588 (
talk) 23:34, 27 May 2020 (UTC)reply
For (2), the answer is almost certainly NO. The standard transliteration of Nikita's surname is Khrushchev, the Kh- coming from the Cyrillic letter X (Хрущёв), which is sort of like the ch in the Scottish "loch" (which is like an intensified h sound but, sadly, often gets the "lock" treatment). The K in Irina Krush's name is a straight k sound. To us, they're similar enough to be treated more or less identically. But to the Russians, they are very different indeed, the two letters being widely separated in their alphabet. --
Jack of Oz[pleasantries] 00:33, 28 May 2020 (UTC)reply
English is an exception in Europe to have merged /x/ into /k/. The only other European languages to completely miss a /x/ sound I can think of are French and Italian.
93.136.158.189 (
talk) 11:34, 28 May 2020 (UTC) reply
I know what it means. I'd just like to see an example - other than Khrushchev, which isn't one. ←
Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 08:32, 30 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Khrushchev is certainly one. It should be like Hrushchóv, but gets Krúschev. --
Jack of Oz[pleasantries] 22:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply
What makes the Russian-borrowed example better than the Greek-borrowed examples? – Do people really pronounce Chanukah with initial /k/? —
Tamfang (
talk) 02:22, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply
No, with a guttural H, if they're doing it right. Although most (especially gentiles) probably say it with just a normal H. And are the Greeks roots pronounced with a guttural H? If so, they would qualify. ←
Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 10:51, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply
In his autobiography, Harpo Marx wrote with amusement about the Russian transliteration of his name, which corresponds with your explanation of the very-guttural and not-as-guttural K sounds: "XAPПO MAPKC", which he transliterated back into English as "Exapno Mapcase". ←
Baseball BugsWhat's up, Doc?carrots→ 17:46, 29 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I heard once that many Russians are aware of the political theorist Ном Чомски and the linguist Ноам Хомски but not of the link between them. —
Tamfang (
talk) 02:28, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply
A Dictionary of Surnames (Oxford 1988) gives Krusch (and forms with diminutive suffixes) as variants of Grushin, in either of two senses: first as a metronymic from Grusha, a pet form of Agrafya, from Latin Agrippina forsooth; second from grusha ‘pear’. ¶ The same book attributes Хрущёв to хрущ ‘
May beetle’. —
Tamfang (
talk) 00:45, 28 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Minor point; a Russian "May beetle" is more likely to be a
cockchafer, the insect in your link is an American thing. I cant read Russian but
ru:Хрущ майский западный has the Latin name for a common cockchafer.
Alansplodge (
talk) 18:13, 28 May 2020 (UTC)reply
I lived through the Khrushchev era, and I can tell you "Nikita Cockchafer" would have gone down a treat. Not. --
Jack of Oz[pleasantries] 20:38, 28 May 2020 (UTC) reply
Russian: Хрущ is cognate with
Polish: chrząszcz, sometimes touted as the most unpronounceable word in Polish. See
chrząszcz. --
ColinFine (
talk) 13:24, 30 May 2020 (UTC)reply
Hmm. I've never heard the Jewish people in this area (of whom there are many) pronounce Chanucah, Chaim, etc. with anything other than a rasping "h".
80.44.94.255 (
talk) 16:37, 1 June 2020 (UTC)reply