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September 10 Information
The
Canadian Oxford Dictionary is
available online, but behind a paywall. If anyone has access to it (or to a hard copy), could you please provide me the entries for pierogi, pyrohy and varenyky?
Additional question: is anyone aware of a different English dictionary that includes the word varenyky? Is it used at all outside Canadian English? —
Kpalion
(talk) 15:44, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
- The entry at pierogy just says variant of perogy which is defined as a dough dumpling stuffed with potato, cheese, etc., boiled and then optionally fried, and usu. served with onions, sour cream, etc..
- The British OED (Third Edition) has the definition of pierogi: With pl. concord, or collectively. A dish, of Polish and Eastern European origin, consisting of small, usually semicircular, dough cases or dumplings filled with any of a variety of savoury or sweet fillings, and cooked by boiling or steaming; (also) such dumplings individually.
- The variants pyrohy and varenyky are not in the British OED, but in the Canadian Oxford, pyrohy is just a variant spelling of perogy whilst varenyky (plural noun) has a separate definition: dough dumplings stuffed with mashed potato, cheese, etc., boiled and then optionally fried, and usu. served with onions, sour cream, etc.; perogies. Dbfirs 16:39, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
- Here's an interesting (to me, at least) gloss: In Polish, the version ending in -i/-y is actually the plural; the singular is pierog (possibly with diacritics; I'm not being very precise right now). As it happens, the way I learned this word was in my grandmother's house: she made pierogen (hard g), which is actually a Yiddish plural to the same word. StevenJ81 ( talk) 16:54, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
- Describing pyrohy as a spelling variant of pierogi is about as accurate as calling plaza a spelling variant of place. The West-Slavic Polish word pierogi (sg. pierog) and the East-Slavic Rusyn word pyrohy (sg. pyroha) are sister cognates, equally derived from a common Slavic root, just as are Spanish plaza and French place, from a Latin root. Whether those words refer to the same thing and to what is signified by the word varenyky is one of cultural usage, not historical linguistics, and about as helpful as arguing about whether a plaza is the same thing as a forum. μηδείς ( talk) 19:11, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks to all responders and particularly to Dbfirs. — Kpalion (talk) 21:31, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
- My late Russian ex-mother-in-law used to make varenyky often. She also made what others can call pierogi, but to her and us they were pirozhki (pl.; sing. pirozhok). -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:10, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
| Language desk | ||
|---|---|---|
| < September 9 | << Aug | September | Oct >> | September 11 > |
| Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives |
|---|
| The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
September 10 Information
The
Canadian Oxford Dictionary is
available online, but behind a paywall. If anyone has access to it (or to a hard copy), could you please provide me the entries for pierogi, pyrohy and varenyky?
Additional question: is anyone aware of a different English dictionary that includes the word varenyky? Is it used at all outside Canadian English? —
Kpalion
(talk) 15:44, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
- The entry at pierogy just says variant of perogy which is defined as a dough dumpling stuffed with potato, cheese, etc., boiled and then optionally fried, and usu. served with onions, sour cream, etc..
- The British OED (Third Edition) has the definition of pierogi: With pl. concord, or collectively. A dish, of Polish and Eastern European origin, consisting of small, usually semicircular, dough cases or dumplings filled with any of a variety of savoury or sweet fillings, and cooked by boiling or steaming; (also) such dumplings individually.
- The variants pyrohy and varenyky are not in the British OED, but in the Canadian Oxford, pyrohy is just a variant spelling of perogy whilst varenyky (plural noun) has a separate definition: dough dumplings stuffed with mashed potato, cheese, etc., boiled and then optionally fried, and usu. served with onions, sour cream, etc.; perogies. Dbfirs 16:39, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
- Here's an interesting (to me, at least) gloss: In Polish, the version ending in -i/-y is actually the plural; the singular is pierog (possibly with diacritics; I'm not being very precise right now). As it happens, the way I learned this word was in my grandmother's house: she made pierogen (hard g), which is actually a Yiddish plural to the same word. StevenJ81 ( talk) 16:54, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
- Describing pyrohy as a spelling variant of pierogi is about as accurate as calling plaza a spelling variant of place. The West-Slavic Polish word pierogi (sg. pierog) and the East-Slavic Rusyn word pyrohy (sg. pyroha) are sister cognates, equally derived from a common Slavic root, just as are Spanish plaza and French place, from a Latin root. Whether those words refer to the same thing and to what is signified by the word varenyky is one of cultural usage, not historical linguistics, and about as helpful as arguing about whether a plaza is the same thing as a forum. μηδείς ( talk) 19:11, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
Thanks to all responders and particularly to Dbfirs. — Kpalion (talk) 21:31, 10 September 2015 (UTC)
- My late Russian ex-mother-in-law used to make varenyky often. She also made what others can call pierogi, but to her and us they were pirozhki (pl.; sing. pirozhok). -- Jack of Oz [pleasantries] 22:10, 10 September 2015 (UTC)