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I am looking for a word which has as its meaning "mission responsibility". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Packianathan ( talk • contribs) 00:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
I recently found myself writing (I'll remove the context):
I got to wondering just what it was that I was denying with "you certainly don't" Things that are "not-must" seem to fall into 3 camps:
I think my case falls into Camp C. I don't think that "you certainly don't" is bad writing, but if I were asked to complete the phrase ("you certainly don't <something>"), I suppose it would have to be "have to". But "you don't have to" suggests there's a choice, whereas in this case there is no choice - either you must, or you must not. No other options. Maybe I could have said "and there's certainly no requirement here", but that seems to be invoking pedantry for its own sake. Nobody would misunderstand what I meant, but analytically, it seems somehow unorthodox. Can anyone comment on this in a meaningful way? -- JackofOz ( talk) 01:16, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Write X if you absolutely must – and you certainly don't here – but never Y.
Have you got time for a coffee?No, I don't. Sorry.
Have you got time for a coffee?No, I haven't. Sorry.
I must go
1. NOT[I must go]
meaning It is not the case that I must go
expressible as I do not have to go
2. NOT[I] must go
perhaps meaning Whoever must go, it is not I
expressible also as I'm not the one who must go
3. I NOT[must] go
meaning the same as 1
4. I must NOT[go]
meaning I must not go
expressible also as I may not go, though that form of words can be taken two ways: I NOT[may] go (correct here) and I may NOT[go]
Yes, thank you all. I particularly like Duncan's suggestion for its simplicity. Noetica's excursions are, as always, fabulously entertaining and educational. Like you, Milkbreath, I have a niggling voice that says one should not write "have to" if "must" is more appropriate - not that it makes any real difference apart from perhaps a stylistic thing - but there's no reason why "have to" wouldn't work just as well here, thus obviating my (and your) problem with "you certainly don't". Jayron, I take a grimmer line - "That which is not permitted is forbidden". But I'm sure you'll be pleased to know I graciously permit you to come along any time and be of service. :) -- JackofOz ( talk) 10:34, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
If taphephobia is the fear of being buried alive, what is the fear of being cremated alive? I think I'd rather suffocate in a silk-lined box than be burned.-- KageTora ( talk) 02:14, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
What is does "teen-pop spree" mean: Jennifer Paige (in the lead paragraph)? 96.53.149.117 ( talk) 02:16, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
I typed this statement into Babelfish: I do not speak or write Spanish. I had help with writing these questions. What came back as the Spanish translation was: No hablo ni escribo español. Tenía escritura de la ayuda con estas preguntas. Is this correct, or is there a better way of sayng it? Thanks ៛ Bielle ( talk) 03:50, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Do not trust Babelfish. Different languages have different ways of saying something but Babelfish translates everything literally. For example, if I were to write "Yo tengo dos anos" (sorry for the unaccented "n": I am using a German keyboard at the moment), I am pretty sure Babelfish would give: "I have 2 years" which is clearly incorrect. Babelfish has this nasty habit of literal translations. As for the question: "No hablo ni escribo el espanol. Tuve ayuda para escribir estas preguntas". This is basically the same as the above response except I would write "el espanol" instead of "espanol": note that it is very important to be able to use "por" and "para" correctly. The best place to learn Spanish is [2] (in my opinion). -- PS T 11:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
I'd go for "Ni hablo ni escribo" not "No hablo...". español / castellano is more or less arbitrary, the former being more common in the New World and the latter in Spain. For the latter sentence, I'd be more inclined to say "Tuve ayudo en escribir estas preguntas" or even "Tuve ayudo en escribir las preguntas estas." But I'm not native. A native speaker would be very welcome here. - Jmabel | Talk 05:02, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Is there such a thing as an "accusative infinitive" in French? Obviously this would not be the same as in Latin since there is no accusative, but I have seen similar constructions, something like, for example, "il dit être..." meaning "he says that he is...". I see this sometimes in newspaper headlines, so I am wondering if it is French headlinese and not standard, or if that is an actual construction in standard French. Adam Bishop ( talk) 04:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
[...] b) Croire + inf.
Croire + inf. + compl. Avoir l'impression ou admettre que quelque chose est certain. Werbrust et Gigonnet ont cru me faire une farce (...) je vais bien rire ce soir à leurs dépens (BALZAC, Gobseck, 1830, p. 410). Je crois voir, la nuit, sous les meubles, un chat qui me regarde (A. FRANCE, Hist. comique, 1903, p. 2).
Croire + inf. + inf. (pouvoir ou un autre verbe). Avec valeur d'auxiliaire et constituant une manière d'atténuer une affirmation. Je crois devoir vous dire très simplement que je souhaite pour la France et pour vous, mon Général, que vous sachiez et puissiez échapper au désastre (DE GAULLE, Mém. guerre, 1954, p. 269) :
5. ... je n'étais pas seule à être exaspérée par cette habitude qu'a prise Robert de toujours dire qu'il a « cru devoir faire » tout ce que, simplement, il a fait parce qu'il en avait envie, ou bien, plus souvent encore, parce qu'il lui paraissait opportun d'agir ainsi. Ces derniers temps, il perfectionne; il dit : « J'ai cru de mon devoir de... » comme s'il n'agissait plus que mû par de hautes considérations morales. GIDE, L'École des femmes, 1929, p. 1280.
[...] 9. Vous tombez, chère Athéna, dans un moment de l'entretien qu'il n'est pas exagéré de dire pathétique. DUHAMEL, Chronique des Pasquier, Cécile parmi nous, 1938, p. 49.
Dire + inf. Et vous dites aimer votre fille! (LEMERCIER, Pinto, 1800, I, 3, p. 14). Vous calculez, et vous dites aimer (BALZAC, Langeais, 1834, p. 276) :
10. Il expliquait que la mine ne pouvait être la propriété du mineur, comme le métier est celle du tisserand, et il disait préférer la participation aux bénéfices, l'ouvrier intéressé, devenu l'enfant de la maison. ZOLA, Germinal, 1885, p. 1382.
Hello, I'm Italian and I wrote recently the article "National Mall" on the italian wikipedia. I know the british pronunciation of the mall is mael, but I'm not sure about the american, especially the local, pronunciation of mall in "national mall". Can somebody help me? Thank you, -- Gabodon ( talk) 07:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
In the U.S. the cigarette is pronounced like "Paul Maul" (rhyming with "hall", "wall" etc.). I believe that "mall" on its own in British English is pretty close to the American (the vowel sound is slightly different): "Pall Mall" gets a non-standard pronunciation, as to many place names. - Jmabel | Talk 05:06, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Language desk | ||
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< January 15 | << Dec | January | Feb >> | January 17 > |
Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives |
---|
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
I am looking for a word which has as its meaning "mission responsibility". —Preceding unsigned comment added by Packianathan ( talk • contribs) 00:52, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
I recently found myself writing (I'll remove the context):
I got to wondering just what it was that I was denying with "you certainly don't" Things that are "not-must" seem to fall into 3 camps:
I think my case falls into Camp C. I don't think that "you certainly don't" is bad writing, but if I were asked to complete the phrase ("you certainly don't <something>"), I suppose it would have to be "have to". But "you don't have to" suggests there's a choice, whereas in this case there is no choice - either you must, or you must not. No other options. Maybe I could have said "and there's certainly no requirement here", but that seems to be invoking pedantry for its own sake. Nobody would misunderstand what I meant, but analytically, it seems somehow unorthodox. Can anyone comment on this in a meaningful way? -- JackofOz ( talk) 01:16, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Write X if you absolutely must – and you certainly don't here – but never Y.
Have you got time for a coffee?No, I don't. Sorry.
Have you got time for a coffee?No, I haven't. Sorry.
I must go
1. NOT[I must go]
meaning It is not the case that I must go
expressible as I do not have to go
2. NOT[I] must go
perhaps meaning Whoever must go, it is not I
expressible also as I'm not the one who must go
3. I NOT[must] go
meaning the same as 1
4. I must NOT[go]
meaning I must not go
expressible also as I may not go, though that form of words can be taken two ways: I NOT[may] go (correct here) and I may NOT[go]
Yes, thank you all. I particularly like Duncan's suggestion for its simplicity. Noetica's excursions are, as always, fabulously entertaining and educational. Like you, Milkbreath, I have a niggling voice that says one should not write "have to" if "must" is more appropriate - not that it makes any real difference apart from perhaps a stylistic thing - but there's no reason why "have to" wouldn't work just as well here, thus obviating my (and your) problem with "you certainly don't". Jayron, I take a grimmer line - "That which is not permitted is forbidden". But I'm sure you'll be pleased to know I graciously permit you to come along any time and be of service. :) -- JackofOz ( talk) 10:34, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
If taphephobia is the fear of being buried alive, what is the fear of being cremated alive? I think I'd rather suffocate in a silk-lined box than be burned.-- KageTora ( talk) 02:14, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
What is does "teen-pop spree" mean: Jennifer Paige (in the lead paragraph)? 96.53.149.117 ( talk) 02:16, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
I typed this statement into Babelfish: I do not speak or write Spanish. I had help with writing these questions. What came back as the Spanish translation was: No hablo ni escribo español. Tenía escritura de la ayuda con estas preguntas. Is this correct, or is there a better way of sayng it? Thanks ៛ Bielle ( talk) 03:50, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
Do not trust Babelfish. Different languages have different ways of saying something but Babelfish translates everything literally. For example, if I were to write "Yo tengo dos anos" (sorry for the unaccented "n": I am using a German keyboard at the moment), I am pretty sure Babelfish would give: "I have 2 years" which is clearly incorrect. Babelfish has this nasty habit of literal translations. As for the question: "No hablo ni escribo el espanol. Tuve ayuda para escribir estas preguntas". This is basically the same as the above response except I would write "el espanol" instead of "espanol": note that it is very important to be able to use "por" and "para" correctly. The best place to learn Spanish is [2] (in my opinion). -- PS T 11:07, 17 January 2009 (UTC)
I'd go for "Ni hablo ni escribo" not "No hablo...". español / castellano is more or less arbitrary, the former being more common in the New World and the latter in Spain. For the latter sentence, I'd be more inclined to say "Tuve ayudo en escribir estas preguntas" or even "Tuve ayudo en escribir las preguntas estas." But I'm not native. A native speaker would be very welcome here. - Jmabel | Talk 05:02, 19 January 2009 (UTC)
Is there such a thing as an "accusative infinitive" in French? Obviously this would not be the same as in Latin since there is no accusative, but I have seen similar constructions, something like, for example, "il dit être..." meaning "he says that he is...". I see this sometimes in newspaper headlines, so I am wondering if it is French headlinese and not standard, or if that is an actual construction in standard French. Adam Bishop ( talk) 04:17, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
[...] b) Croire + inf.
Croire + inf. + compl. Avoir l'impression ou admettre que quelque chose est certain. Werbrust et Gigonnet ont cru me faire une farce (...) je vais bien rire ce soir à leurs dépens (BALZAC, Gobseck, 1830, p. 410). Je crois voir, la nuit, sous les meubles, un chat qui me regarde (A. FRANCE, Hist. comique, 1903, p. 2).
Croire + inf. + inf. (pouvoir ou un autre verbe). Avec valeur d'auxiliaire et constituant une manière d'atténuer une affirmation. Je crois devoir vous dire très simplement que je souhaite pour la France et pour vous, mon Général, que vous sachiez et puissiez échapper au désastre (DE GAULLE, Mém. guerre, 1954, p. 269) :
5. ... je n'étais pas seule à être exaspérée par cette habitude qu'a prise Robert de toujours dire qu'il a « cru devoir faire » tout ce que, simplement, il a fait parce qu'il en avait envie, ou bien, plus souvent encore, parce qu'il lui paraissait opportun d'agir ainsi. Ces derniers temps, il perfectionne; il dit : « J'ai cru de mon devoir de... » comme s'il n'agissait plus que mû par de hautes considérations morales. GIDE, L'École des femmes, 1929, p. 1280.
[...] 9. Vous tombez, chère Athéna, dans un moment de l'entretien qu'il n'est pas exagéré de dire pathétique. DUHAMEL, Chronique des Pasquier, Cécile parmi nous, 1938, p. 49.
Dire + inf. Et vous dites aimer votre fille! (LEMERCIER, Pinto, 1800, I, 3, p. 14). Vous calculez, et vous dites aimer (BALZAC, Langeais, 1834, p. 276) :
10. Il expliquait que la mine ne pouvait être la propriété du mineur, comme le métier est celle du tisserand, et il disait préférer la participation aux bénéfices, l'ouvrier intéressé, devenu l'enfant de la maison. ZOLA, Germinal, 1885, p. 1382.
Hello, I'm Italian and I wrote recently the article "National Mall" on the italian wikipedia. I know the british pronunciation of the mall is mael, but I'm not sure about the american, especially the local, pronunciation of mall in "national mall". Can somebody help me? Thank you, -- Gabodon ( talk) 07:05, 16 January 2009 (UTC)
In the U.S. the cigarette is pronounced like "Paul Maul" (rhyming with "hall", "wall" etc.). I believe that "mall" on its own in British English is pretty close to the American (the vowel sound is slightly different): "Pall Mall" gets a non-standard pronunciation, as to many place names. - Jmabel | Talk 05:06, 19 January 2009 (UTC)