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April 8 Information
'Faux' For French "False", "True" English For French
Of course, even in French "faux pas" is
idiomatic, so it's literal opposite "vrai pas" may not make much sense. People would probably understand it, but it would seem a strange usage, much like in English people using terms like "chalant" as the opposite of "nonchalant" or something like that... --
Jayron32.
talk.
contribs03:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Also, adjectives normally follow nouns in French, so pas vrai might be better. (Faux pas is an exception to that, possibly because it's an idiom.) Unfortunately, however, pas vrai would probably be interpreted as "not true" rather than "true step". —
Angr06:38, 8 April 2009 (UTC)reply
If I remember from my year of college French, adjectives normally precede nouns when they're words that have to do with beauty, goodness, size and a fourth property that I don't remember. —
Ƶ§œš¹[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]06:42, 8 April 2009 (UTC)reply
One more thing: I don't think "faux" means "false" in the sense of "not complying with truth/reality" here, but in the sense of "not complying with the norm".
French Wiktionary has "des actes irréguliers, incorrects, insuffisants, manquant à leur destination" for this usage. I would suggest something like "un pas juste", "un pas régulier", "un pas correct". I wanted to suggest "un bon pas", but that usually means "a good pace" (as in fast). Where are
Noetica and his fat reference works? ---
Sluzzelintalk07:28, 8 April 2009 (UTC)reply
I seem to remember reading somewhere (and unfortunately I can't remember where) that the English phrase "faux pas" is not actually used in French to mean what in English would be called a faux pas - the French would be "une bévue" or "une gaffe". Interestingly the online Larousse does offer an English->French translation of "faux pas"; "the phrase "faux pas" is not offered as a translation. Similarly I seem to remember the English phrase al fresco, taken to be a translation from Italian as "in [the] cool", and meaning "outside" (as in "dining al fresco) means "in prison" (as in "in the cooler") in Italian. Can anyone confirm or deny this vague memory of mine?
TonywaltonTalk00:14, 12 April 2009 (UTC)reply
I would go with winners. Teams are often referred to in the plural ("Manchester United are in second place...") Plus, the singular would look funny since you've already used "winners" to refer to Man U. --
Richardrjtalk email11:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)reply
I think it can be either. If it's conceived as "the team that was in 6th place", then it's "the sixth place team" or "the sixth-place team"; but if it's thought of "the 6th team that won a place", then it'd be "the sixth-placed team" (or, I suppose, "the sixth placed team"). --
JackofOz (
talk)
04:09, 9 April 2009 (UTC)reply
I'm skeptical. Sixth-placed sounds much like sixth-seeded -- the team that was assigned some sixth position, and not necessarily in sequence...? --
DaHorsesMouth (
talk)
23:32, 10 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the
current reference desk pages.
April 8 Information
'Faux' For French "False", "True" English For French
Of course, even in French "faux pas" is
idiomatic, so it's literal opposite "vrai pas" may not make much sense. People would probably understand it, but it would seem a strange usage, much like in English people using terms like "chalant" as the opposite of "nonchalant" or something like that... --
Jayron32.
talk.
contribs03:08, 8 April 2009 (UTC)reply
Also, adjectives normally follow nouns in French, so pas vrai might be better. (Faux pas is an exception to that, possibly because it's an idiom.) Unfortunately, however, pas vrai would probably be interpreted as "not true" rather than "true step". —
Angr06:38, 8 April 2009 (UTC)reply
If I remember from my year of college French, adjectives normally precede nouns when they're words that have to do with beauty, goodness, size and a fourth property that I don't remember. —
Ƶ§œš¹[aɪm ˈfɻɛ̃ⁿdˡi]06:42, 8 April 2009 (UTC)reply
One more thing: I don't think "faux" means "false" in the sense of "not complying with truth/reality" here, but in the sense of "not complying with the norm".
French Wiktionary has "des actes irréguliers, incorrects, insuffisants, manquant à leur destination" for this usage. I would suggest something like "un pas juste", "un pas régulier", "un pas correct". I wanted to suggest "un bon pas", but that usually means "a good pace" (as in fast). Where are
Noetica and his fat reference works? ---
Sluzzelintalk07:28, 8 April 2009 (UTC)reply
I seem to remember reading somewhere (and unfortunately I can't remember where) that the English phrase "faux pas" is not actually used in French to mean what in English would be called a faux pas - the French would be "une bévue" or "une gaffe". Interestingly the online Larousse does offer an English->French translation of "faux pas"; "the phrase "faux pas" is not offered as a translation. Similarly I seem to remember the English phrase al fresco, taken to be a translation from Italian as "in [the] cool", and meaning "outside" (as in "dining al fresco) means "in prison" (as in "in the cooler") in Italian. Can anyone confirm or deny this vague memory of mine?
TonywaltonTalk00:14, 12 April 2009 (UTC)reply
I would go with winners. Teams are often referred to in the plural ("Manchester United are in second place...") Plus, the singular would look funny since you've already used "winners" to refer to Man U. --
Richardrjtalk email11:19, 8 April 2009 (UTC)reply
I think it can be either. If it's conceived as "the team that was in 6th place", then it's "the sixth place team" or "the sixth-place team"; but if it's thought of "the 6th team that won a place", then it'd be "the sixth-placed team" (or, I suppose, "the sixth placed team"). --
JackofOz (
talk)
04:09, 9 April 2009 (UTC)reply
I'm skeptical. Sixth-placed sounds much like sixth-seeded -- the team that was assigned some sixth position, and not necessarily in sequence...? --
DaHorsesMouth (
talk)
23:32, 10 April 2009 (UTC)reply