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I always hear some French speakers producing an h-like fricative sound at the end of some words and I came across this on the St. Takla Church French audio course again. Please listen to la nuit, which i hear as [la nɥiç] and could someone enlighten me on this? Are there any rules governing the use of this [ç] or is it just totally haphazard? Has anyone done any research into this? Or does this phenomenon even have a name? Thanks! Shane Shingrila 06:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
It's really just phonetic vowel-devoicing at the end of an utterance. If the tongue position of the vowel [i] is maintained, but the vocal cords stop vibrating, and there starts to be some degree of occlusion in the mouth (i.e. the jaw closes slightly) while air continues to flow from the lungs, then you automatically get a German ich-laut type sound (IPA [ç]). I bet it has more to do with speech style than geographical dialects in the ordinary sense. AnonMoos 14:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
In Belgium it is pronounced 'la nuit' like the word 'oui'
Does someone out there know any corpora of spoken language online for free with a scientific quality?
A while ago someone posted a link to a website that hosted free public domain language courses. They were from the US armed forces and dated back to the 60s. There were manuals and sound files to download. I've lost the link and can't find the site again through google. Does anyone have it? Many thanks. -- Richardrj talk email 15:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Seriously, this is not a criticism, it's a genuine question. Last night my wife and I watched a movie on TV starring Susan Sarandon as a nun who was counselling Sean Penn as a death row murderer/rapist (Dead Man Walking). It was set in Louisiana and both of us said afterwards that the accents were so heavy they were almost incomprehensible to us. I personally missed about 80% of the dialogues(s). Now I know as an Englishman living in Scotland that English varies across the globe. But I am increasingly conscious of the drift in American spoken English mostly because we watch so many US movies. And I am therefore curious to know whether, one day, those of us (non-Americans) who want to travel to or trade with America will have to buy a Berlitz course of US spoken English, and also what effect that might have on the global dominance of the US movie industry. It was a very powerful story with brilliant acting, no question of that. But I genuinely didn't understand the dialect. Do other, say, North American people have similar problems when listening to southern dialects? Thanks in anticipation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.21.69 ( talk • contribs)
I recall reading somewhere that around 1930, when the first talkies started coming out, British audiences would complain about difficulties understanding the dialogue in American pictures. Pretty soon they got used to Yank accents, however. I for one saw Trainspotting in a theatre in the UK (ie. without subtitles), and being a non-native speaker I couldn't make head nor tail of the dialogue. I imagine it would have been the same for many Americans. As to the OP's example, Sarandon is from New York and Penn from California, so they may have been laying the Louisiana accent on a bit thick, as actors sometimes do (haven't seen it myself).-- Rallette 20:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Interesting. My wife hails from South America and has quite the opposite complaint. She has little trouble following American broadcasts, but can rarely follow any British telecast because of her problems with the accent (she has no clue watching Monty Python, for example).
I would like to know this phrase in as many languages as possible (please mention the language too) thanks! san 18:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)18:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)18:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
---(i'm at my work computer, so i can't type in japanese text)...'[boku/watashi/atashi/ore] no uma ga toire ni tsumazuita.' in polish: 'muj kon' wpad do toalety.' poor thing. :( --Coolsnak3 19:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)coolsnak3
either is good thanks san 20:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC) 81.243.78.213 20:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Finnish: Hevoseni putosi vessanpönttöön.-- Rallette 20:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
French: Mon cheval (vient de tomber/est tombé/tomba) dans (le cabinet/la toilette).-- Siva 21:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Italian: Il mio cavallo è caduto nel (something).-- Siva 21:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Latin: Equus meus cecidit in latrinam.-- Siva 21:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Spanish: Mi caballo se cayó en el wáter.-- Siva 21:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Swedish: Min häst har fallit ner i toaletten. 惑乱 分からん 21:09, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Norwegian: Hesten min har falt i do. 62.16.185.24 22:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Russian: Моя лошадь упала в унитаз, Moya loshad' upala v unitaz. What a weird sentence.— Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • ( yo?); 21:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Polish: Mój koń wpad w toalete. I did a similar experient back when I was at school, except my phrase was (vulgar)"go 'sleep with' your mother" ;). My school was very multicultural and I found it interesting that each language seemed to have an insult which translated to mean that, both eastern and western cultures. I had 13 in the end. Vespine 23:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Japanese: 僕の馬がトイレにつまずいた (boku no uma ga toire ni tsumazuita)
馬がトイレにつまずいた (The horse fell in the toilet)
惑乱 分からん 12:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
danke schön for that one, wakaran. :D depending on the area of japan, some people use pronouns like they're going out of style. personally, i would rather say 'uma ga toire ni tsumazuita'. however, i would imagine a native japanese speaker would translate it using the pronoun just because it's such an odd sentence. it looks like something that belongs in one of haruki murakami's novels.
Chinese: 我的馬掉到馬桶下了 (wǒ de mǎ diào dào má tǒng xià le), the character for horse and the first character for toilet (the term I use anyway) are the same, but pronounced with a different accent for me, btw. And it actually means my horse fell under/below the toilet. You can say into the toilet, which would be the correct term to use when you "drop" something into the toilet. -- Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント ( talk) 01:46, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Cantonese: 我隻馬跌咗落廁所度 [ŋɔ13 tsek33 ma13 tit33 tsɔ35 lɔk22 tsʰi33 sɔ35 tou22
Teochew: 我隻馬跤留落廁所塊 [ua53-24 tsie22-55 mbe53-24 ka33 lao55-11 loʔ55-22 tsʰe213-53 so53-24 ko213
Welsh: Syrthiodd fy ngheffyl lawr y toiled (my horse fell...); Mae fy ngheffyl wedi syrthio lawr y toiled (my horse has fallen....). Big toilet! -- Arwel ( talk) 19:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
German: Mein Pferd ist in die Toilette gefallen. Rueckk 20:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
High Alemannic German, Zürich German variety (hey, you said as many as possible!): Mis Ross isch i 's WC gheit. --- Sluzzelin 20:50, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I just can't remember this word. I know it was a fairly obsqure word, but it was common enough to be in my dictionary.
Any guesses?
sort of like it, would be conundrum...
'Really'?
Due to your suggestions, I was able to find the word I was originally looking for. "Vacuous" It looks like I both mis-remembered a noun form, and thought it meant something much more specific than it really does, "an empty statement devoid of substance"
Thanks for the help!
I think you will find that "specious" almost fits the bill, if you substitute "not right" for "trite". 0atcake
I was watching Richard Dawkins' new BBC documentary, and this guy from London used the word pedophilia. His pronunciation was very odd to me (something like pea-da-filly-ah), was this just this guy or is this akin to the aluminum British English vs American English pronunciation battle? -- Cody.Pope 21:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
The explanation for that is that the word is actually paedophilia, and ae, at least in Latin- and Greek-derived words, is usually pronounced as [iː] (a long "ee" sound). I believe the reason why Americans say "PED-uh-filly-uh" [ˌpɛdəˈfɪliə] is that they don't spell it with an ae (an unfortunate consequence of spelling reforms such as those advocated by Noah Webster).-- Siva 21:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Americans tend to think that anyone who uses "æ" should be tied up with a ligature and thumped with an encylopædia.. :-) StuRat 03:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm so glad I asked the question because these are the best answers/rantings ever. -- Cody.Pope 22:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Please help me settle an ongoing dispute. I am an amateur student of the language, and have often argued over the years that the word "wellness" is not an accepted part of the language, though we often see it used in the media and everyday life. I am fairly certain that it wasn't a word, but rather slang in common usage. I recently referenced it in several dictionaries. Is this a case of slang acceptance due to general use?
dpotter 23:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)Like the adjective well-baby, the noun wellness has the ring of a recent coinage and medical jargon, especially when used attributively, as in a wellness clinic, but the word is first recorded in 1654. Despite serving a useful function as a means of describing a state that includes not just physical health but fitness and emotional well-being, wellness has never received the acceptance of its antonym illness. Sixty-eight percent of the Usage Panel finds the word unacceptable in the sentence A number of corporations have implemented employee wellness programs, aimed at enhancing spiritual values, emotional stability, fitness, and nutrition.
Language desk | ||
---|---|---|
< November 8 | << Oct | November | Dec >> | November 10 > |
Welcome to the Wikipedia Language Reference Desk Archives |
---|
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
I always hear some French speakers producing an h-like fricative sound at the end of some words and I came across this on the St. Takla Church French audio course again. Please listen to la nuit, which i hear as [la nɥiç] and could someone enlighten me on this? Are there any rules governing the use of this [ç] or is it just totally haphazard? Has anyone done any research into this? Or does this phenomenon even have a name? Thanks! Shane Shingrila 06:06, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
It's really just phonetic vowel-devoicing at the end of an utterance. If the tongue position of the vowel [i] is maintained, but the vocal cords stop vibrating, and there starts to be some degree of occlusion in the mouth (i.e. the jaw closes slightly) while air continues to flow from the lungs, then you automatically get a German ich-laut type sound (IPA [ç]). I bet it has more to do with speech style than geographical dialects in the ordinary sense. AnonMoos 14:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
In Belgium it is pronounced 'la nuit' like the word 'oui'
Does someone out there know any corpora of spoken language online for free with a scientific quality?
A while ago someone posted a link to a website that hosted free public domain language courses. They were from the US armed forces and dated back to the 60s. There were manuals and sound files to download. I've lost the link and can't find the site again through google. Does anyone have it? Many thanks. -- Richardrj talk email 15:22, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Seriously, this is not a criticism, it's a genuine question. Last night my wife and I watched a movie on TV starring Susan Sarandon as a nun who was counselling Sean Penn as a death row murderer/rapist (Dead Man Walking). It was set in Louisiana and both of us said afterwards that the accents were so heavy they were almost incomprehensible to us. I personally missed about 80% of the dialogues(s). Now I know as an Englishman living in Scotland that English varies across the globe. But I am increasingly conscious of the drift in American spoken English mostly because we watch so many US movies. And I am therefore curious to know whether, one day, those of us (non-Americans) who want to travel to or trade with America will have to buy a Berlitz course of US spoken English, and also what effect that might have on the global dominance of the US movie industry. It was a very powerful story with brilliant acting, no question of that. But I genuinely didn't understand the dialect. Do other, say, North American people have similar problems when listening to southern dialects? Thanks in anticipation. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 195.93.21.69 ( talk • contribs)
I recall reading somewhere that around 1930, when the first talkies started coming out, British audiences would complain about difficulties understanding the dialogue in American pictures. Pretty soon they got used to Yank accents, however. I for one saw Trainspotting in a theatre in the UK (ie. without subtitles), and being a non-native speaker I couldn't make head nor tail of the dialogue. I imagine it would have been the same for many Americans. As to the OP's example, Sarandon is from New York and Penn from California, so they may have been laying the Louisiana accent on a bit thick, as actors sometimes do (haven't seen it myself).-- Rallette 20:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Interesting. My wife hails from South America and has quite the opposite complaint. She has little trouble following American broadcasts, but can rarely follow any British telecast because of her problems with the accent (she has no clue watching Monty Python, for example).
I would like to know this phrase in as many languages as possible (please mention the language too) thanks! san 18:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)18:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)18:47, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
---(i'm at my work computer, so i can't type in japanese text)...'[boku/watashi/atashi/ore] no uma ga toire ni tsumazuita.' in polish: 'muj kon' wpad do toalety.' poor thing. :( --Coolsnak3 19:10, 9 November 2006 (UTC)coolsnak3
either is good thanks san 20:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC) 81.243.78.213 20:33, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Finnish: Hevoseni putosi vessanpönttöön.-- Rallette 20:38, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
French: Mon cheval (vient de tomber/est tombé/tomba) dans (le cabinet/la toilette).-- Siva 21:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Italian: Il mio cavallo è caduto nel (something).-- Siva 21:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Latin: Equus meus cecidit in latrinam.-- Siva 21:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Spanish: Mi caballo se cayó en el wáter.-- Siva 21:27, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Swedish: Min häst har fallit ner i toaletten. 惑乱 分からん 21:09, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Norwegian: Hesten min har falt i do. 62.16.185.24 22:43, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Russian: Моя лошадь упала в унитаз, Moya loshad' upala v unitaz. What a weird sentence.— Ëzhiki (Igels Hérissonovich Ïzhakoff-Amursky) • ( yo?); 21:30, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Polish: Mój koń wpad w toalete. I did a similar experient back when I was at school, except my phrase was (vulgar)"go 'sleep with' your mother" ;). My school was very multicultural and I found it interesting that each language seemed to have an insult which translated to mean that, both eastern and western cultures. I had 13 in the end. Vespine 23:16, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Japanese: 僕の馬がトイレにつまずいた (boku no uma ga toire ni tsumazuita)
馬がトイレにつまずいた (The horse fell in the toilet)
惑乱 分からん 12:25, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
danke schön for that one, wakaran. :D depending on the area of japan, some people use pronouns like they're going out of style. personally, i would rather say 'uma ga toire ni tsumazuita'. however, i would imagine a native japanese speaker would translate it using the pronoun just because it's such an odd sentence. it looks like something that belongs in one of haruki murakami's novels.
Chinese: 我的馬掉到馬桶下了 (wǒ de mǎ diào dào má tǒng xià le), the character for horse and the first character for toilet (the term I use anyway) are the same, but pronounced with a different accent for me, btw. And it actually means my horse fell under/below the toilet. You can say into the toilet, which would be the correct term to use when you "drop" something into the toilet. -- Wirbelwindヴィルヴェルヴィント ( talk) 01:46, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Cantonese: 我隻馬跌咗落廁所度 [ŋɔ13 tsek33 ma13 tit33 tsɔ35 lɔk22 tsʰi33 sɔ35 tou22
Teochew: 我隻馬跤留落廁所塊 [ua53-24 tsie22-55 mbe53-24 ka33 lao55-11 loʔ55-22 tsʰe213-53 so53-24 ko213
Welsh: Syrthiodd fy ngheffyl lawr y toiled (my horse fell...); Mae fy ngheffyl wedi syrthio lawr y toiled (my horse has fallen....). Big toilet! -- Arwel ( talk) 19:14, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
German: Mein Pferd ist in die Toilette gefallen. Rueckk 20:16, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
High Alemannic German, Zürich German variety (hey, you said as many as possible!): Mis Ross isch i 's WC gheit. --- Sluzzelin 20:50, 12 November 2006 (UTC)
I just can't remember this word. I know it was a fairly obsqure word, but it was common enough to be in my dictionary.
Any guesses?
sort of like it, would be conundrum...
'Really'?
Due to your suggestions, I was able to find the word I was originally looking for. "Vacuous" It looks like I both mis-remembered a noun form, and thought it meant something much more specific than it really does, "an empty statement devoid of substance"
Thanks for the help!
I think you will find that "specious" almost fits the bill, if you substitute "not right" for "trite". 0atcake
I was watching Richard Dawkins' new BBC documentary, and this guy from London used the word pedophilia. His pronunciation was very odd to me (something like pea-da-filly-ah), was this just this guy or is this akin to the aluminum British English vs American English pronunciation battle? -- Cody.Pope 21:13, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
The explanation for that is that the word is actually paedophilia, and ae, at least in Latin- and Greek-derived words, is usually pronounced as [iː] (a long "ee" sound). I believe the reason why Americans say "PED-uh-filly-uh" [ˌpɛdəˈfɪliə] is that they don't spell it with an ae (an unfortunate consequence of spelling reforms such as those advocated by Noah Webster).-- Siva 21:32, 9 November 2006 (UTC)
Americans tend to think that anyone who uses "æ" should be tied up with a ligature and thumped with an encylopædia.. :-) StuRat 03:30, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
I'm so glad I asked the question because these are the best answers/rantings ever. -- Cody.Pope 22:59, 10 November 2006 (UTC)
Please help me settle an ongoing dispute. I am an amateur student of the language, and have often argued over the years that the word "wellness" is not an accepted part of the language, though we often see it used in the media and everyday life. I am fairly certain that it wasn't a word, but rather slang in common usage. I recently referenced it in several dictionaries. Is this a case of slang acceptance due to general use?
dpotter 23:55, 14 November 2006 (UTC)Like the adjective well-baby, the noun wellness has the ring of a recent coinage and medical jargon, especially when used attributively, as in a wellness clinic, but the word is first recorded in 1654. Despite serving a useful function as a means of describing a state that includes not just physical health but fitness and emotional well-being, wellness has never received the acceptance of its antonym illness. Sixty-eight percent of the Usage Panel finds the word unacceptable in the sentence A number of corporations have implemented employee wellness programs, aimed at enhancing spiritual values, emotional stability, fitness, and nutrition.