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Hello,
greetings to all,
Presently I am working on Draft:Avret Esir Pazary regarding Women's slave market in Istanbul, Turkey. I am looking for help in details of street/area location of historic Women's slave market in Istanbul. It seems those details are mentioned @ following news article in Turkish language.
https://yenicizgihaber.com/koseyazisi/meger-neymissin-sen-avrat-pazari-yazisi-1035.html
Here with I would like to request your help in making location details available by translating above or any other Turkish language reliable source.
Looking forward to your kind help
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku ( talk) 01:36, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
@ User:Lambiam, First of all thanks for your informative response.(I don't know if you have come across Draft:Aurats (word) Which intends to cater to historical linguistics of related cognates like Avrat/Avret. I would request you to support expanding of Draft:Aurats (word) too, if possible. My personal perception is, medieval middle eastern Turkish aristocrat (Commanders/Sardars)might have used word 'awrat' and cognates to belittle 'captured women slaves' and 'non free women' during their military campaigns, Where local communities did not know it's use is denigrating those communities started using words more commonly but Turkish and Persians dropped the usage of word themselves realizing the usage of word was not fair enough. May be in due course we get some more refs from medieval Persian and Indian court accounts helping out historical linguistics) This was bit of side tracking let me come to main topic of this thread.
English Wikipedia has got an article Forum of Arcadius which is not clear enough on sources but seems to indicate Forum of Arcadius was the place in Istanbul where all women used to go for shopping and it was different than women's slave market in Istanbul. (This ref [1] indicates market @ Forum of Arcadius was burned down during some rebellion)
My personal guess is medieval middle eastern Women slave's markets and in Istanbul too ought to have been in some sort of open access but partially enclosed places and usually separate from male slave markets to avoid too openly sharing of skin show which Islamics principally were kind of averse to.
While information in article Forum of Arcadius though sans proper ref seems to indicate Istanbul's women's slave market would have been at "...Tavukpazari near Nur-u Osmaniye...otherwise known as 'Cariye'..."
Google translation of The author Fevzi Günenç of YeniCizgi Haber while does not note his source of information but seems confident enough about location of Women slaves market in Istanbul as "...There is a street in our city that starts right across the west-facing door of our Kemikli Bedestens, who have lived like twin brothers for more than a century, and opens to Şıhcan Street. Avrat Pazarı is the name of the narrow street that extends parallel to this street, north of İnönü Street, where the Old Municipality and Şıra Inn are located. I was very confused about why this street is called Avrat Pazarı...". I don't know if this google translation is accurate enough. One more thing about this detail is it mentions of 'nearby of Old Municipality'. Now some place which is claimed to be so close to a (old) Municipal place would have had some kind of municipal record, I mean chances are supposed to be there.
Again english Wikipedia article Hurrem Sultan at this moment as I see, seems to say, "...Among her first foundations were...and a women's hospital near the women's slave market (Avret Pazary) in Istanbul (Haseki Sultan Complex)..." again I am not aware of accuracy of sources etc.
I suppose Ottomans themselves were procuring few slaves from market so medieval municipal or court records should have some more info on specific locations of Women slaves market in Istanbul.
Thanks and regards
Bookku ( talk) 14:16, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
References
@ User:Lambiam, Your this response has been very helpful clarifying many things to me. As you rightly said instead of term 'medieval era' may be 'pre modern era' may be better term to use. I do have few more questions coming to my mind.
Any ways thanks again, for this productive and helpful discourse. Bookku ( talk) 02:24, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Lambiam many many thanks for sharing well researched information, it's very helpful and nice of you. I will request at resource sharing board for page numbers you suggested. best wishes and warm regards Bookku ( talk) 16:28, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Does anyone here know if the extremely massive pro- republican margin in Trentino in Italy's 1946 institutional referendum had anything to do with the fact that the traditional monarchs in the Trentino were Hapsburgs as opposed to Savoyards? You can see just what I mean in the map on the right here. In this 1946 referendum, Trentino was one of the most--if not the most--pro-republican parts throughout all of Italy, with only parts of central Italy even coming close to Trentino in pro-republican sentiment in 1946! Futurist110 ( talk) 06:21, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Which cases were there where a newly independent state was created from the territory of two or more countries simultaneously or almost simultaneously? For the record, I am thinking of substantial territorial contributions to this new state from multiple countries--not just minor territorial contributions. Anyway, I can think of:
Anyway, which additional examples of this have there been throughout history? Futurist110 ( talk) 06:55, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Half-timber with porcelain panels between the woods. Panels like a modern white 4x4 inch bathroom tile except much larger, flat, flush and can be rectangular not just square, bare wood without lacquer, shellac etc. Saturated medium-dark blue, green etc. porcelain accents of things like nature in some porcelain panels, flush in tight-fitting very well-made holes in the large panels. Bare wood doors with small stained glass window accents, old-fashioned horizontal-barless prison bars on all doors and outside windows which are the only normal sized windows (only ones big enough to crawl out of). Outside windows aren't stained or divided but might be 20th century additions. Inside has house-like rooms instead of a big one with pews. Seems like someone wanted to live in a townhouse that looks like a church with both 17th and 19th century elements inside and it became a jail in the 19th century. 3 floors high with 20 degree steep roof or so on all 4 sides, 25 or 20 feet wide and almost 100 long but that could just be the standard single-lot New York City building footprint imposed on anything space-constrained built after c. 1810 and shouldn't be used to judge style. Sagittarian Milky Way ( talk) 16:05, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Is there a reason why Isambard Kingdom Brunel seems to be so unknown in the USA? I understand that he's a British figure but looking at the top ten people of 100 Greatest Britons, I know every single one well except him, and when I inquired to some of my friends and family members they were all on the same page as me, although some of them didn't know Horatio Nelson. It just seems like he has a Shakespearean type influence in engineering but is not as "god-like" famous as Einstein, Beethoven, Van Gogh etc. Any thoughts? Aza24 ( talk) 22:03, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
IKB's strengths were civil engineering (especially bridges for the railways but also roads) and marine engineering (his ships were innovative but the Great Western was not the first steam ship to cross the Atlantic and the Great Eastern was something of a white elephant). He left railway locomotives to others (Daniel Gooch in particular) He seems to be better known in Britain than some of his contemporaries and this puzzles me. Thomas Telford (civil engineer for roads and canals) and George and Robert Stephenson who were locomotive and civil engineers seem much more important to me and yet they come much further down the list of 100 Great Britons. George Stephenson is in the list-I am not sure the other two are on it. Sorry if this is too much of an opinion based comment. Spinney Hill ( talk) 10:00, 3 November 2020 (UTC).
Humanities desk | ||
---|---|---|
< November 1 | << Oct | November | Dec >> | November 3 > |
Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives |
---|
The page you are currently viewing is a transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
Hello,
greetings to all,
Presently I am working on Draft:Avret Esir Pazary regarding Women's slave market in Istanbul, Turkey. I am looking for help in details of street/area location of historic Women's slave market in Istanbul. It seems those details are mentioned @ following news article in Turkish language.
https://yenicizgihaber.com/koseyazisi/meger-neymissin-sen-avrat-pazari-yazisi-1035.html
Here with I would like to request your help in making location details available by translating above or any other Turkish language reliable source.
Looking forward to your kind help
Thanks and warm regards
Bookku ( talk) 01:36, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
@ User:Lambiam, First of all thanks for your informative response.(I don't know if you have come across Draft:Aurats (word) Which intends to cater to historical linguistics of related cognates like Avrat/Avret. I would request you to support expanding of Draft:Aurats (word) too, if possible. My personal perception is, medieval middle eastern Turkish aristocrat (Commanders/Sardars)might have used word 'awrat' and cognates to belittle 'captured women slaves' and 'non free women' during their military campaigns, Where local communities did not know it's use is denigrating those communities started using words more commonly but Turkish and Persians dropped the usage of word themselves realizing the usage of word was not fair enough. May be in due course we get some more refs from medieval Persian and Indian court accounts helping out historical linguistics) This was bit of side tracking let me come to main topic of this thread.
English Wikipedia has got an article Forum of Arcadius which is not clear enough on sources but seems to indicate Forum of Arcadius was the place in Istanbul where all women used to go for shopping and it was different than women's slave market in Istanbul. (This ref [1] indicates market @ Forum of Arcadius was burned down during some rebellion)
My personal guess is medieval middle eastern Women slave's markets and in Istanbul too ought to have been in some sort of open access but partially enclosed places and usually separate from male slave markets to avoid too openly sharing of skin show which Islamics principally were kind of averse to.
While information in article Forum of Arcadius though sans proper ref seems to indicate Istanbul's women's slave market would have been at "...Tavukpazari near Nur-u Osmaniye...otherwise known as 'Cariye'..."
Google translation of The author Fevzi Günenç of YeniCizgi Haber while does not note his source of information but seems confident enough about location of Women slaves market in Istanbul as "...There is a street in our city that starts right across the west-facing door of our Kemikli Bedestens, who have lived like twin brothers for more than a century, and opens to Şıhcan Street. Avrat Pazarı is the name of the narrow street that extends parallel to this street, north of İnönü Street, where the Old Municipality and Şıra Inn are located. I was very confused about why this street is called Avrat Pazarı...". I don't know if this google translation is accurate enough. One more thing about this detail is it mentions of 'nearby of Old Municipality'. Now some place which is claimed to be so close to a (old) Municipal place would have had some kind of municipal record, I mean chances are supposed to be there.
Again english Wikipedia article Hurrem Sultan at this moment as I see, seems to say, "...Among her first foundations were...and a women's hospital near the women's slave market (Avret Pazary) in Istanbul (Haseki Sultan Complex)..." again I am not aware of accuracy of sources etc.
I suppose Ottomans themselves were procuring few slaves from market so medieval municipal or court records should have some more info on specific locations of Women slaves market in Istanbul.
Thanks and regards
Bookku ( talk) 14:16, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
References
@ User:Lambiam, Your this response has been very helpful clarifying many things to me. As you rightly said instead of term 'medieval era' may be 'pre modern era' may be better term to use. I do have few more questions coming to my mind.
Any ways thanks again, for this productive and helpful discourse. Bookku ( talk) 02:24, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
@ Lambiam many many thanks for sharing well researched information, it's very helpful and nice of you. I will request at resource sharing board for page numbers you suggested. best wishes and warm regards Bookku ( talk) 16:28, 3 November 2020 (UTC)
Does anyone here know if the extremely massive pro- republican margin in Trentino in Italy's 1946 institutional referendum had anything to do with the fact that the traditional monarchs in the Trentino were Hapsburgs as opposed to Savoyards? You can see just what I mean in the map on the right here. In this 1946 referendum, Trentino was one of the most--if not the most--pro-republican parts throughout all of Italy, with only parts of central Italy even coming close to Trentino in pro-republican sentiment in 1946! Futurist110 ( talk) 06:21, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Which cases were there where a newly independent state was created from the territory of two or more countries simultaneously or almost simultaneously? For the record, I am thinking of substantial territorial contributions to this new state from multiple countries--not just minor territorial contributions. Anyway, I can think of:
Anyway, which additional examples of this have there been throughout history? Futurist110 ( talk) 06:55, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Half-timber with porcelain panels between the woods. Panels like a modern white 4x4 inch bathroom tile except much larger, flat, flush and can be rectangular not just square, bare wood without lacquer, shellac etc. Saturated medium-dark blue, green etc. porcelain accents of things like nature in some porcelain panels, flush in tight-fitting very well-made holes in the large panels. Bare wood doors with small stained glass window accents, old-fashioned horizontal-barless prison bars on all doors and outside windows which are the only normal sized windows (only ones big enough to crawl out of). Outside windows aren't stained or divided but might be 20th century additions. Inside has house-like rooms instead of a big one with pews. Seems like someone wanted to live in a townhouse that looks like a church with both 17th and 19th century elements inside and it became a jail in the 19th century. 3 floors high with 20 degree steep roof or so on all 4 sides, 25 or 20 feet wide and almost 100 long but that could just be the standard single-lot New York City building footprint imposed on anything space-constrained built after c. 1810 and shouldn't be used to judge style. Sagittarian Milky Way ( talk) 16:05, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
Is there a reason why Isambard Kingdom Brunel seems to be so unknown in the USA? I understand that he's a British figure but looking at the top ten people of 100 Greatest Britons, I know every single one well except him, and when I inquired to some of my friends and family members they were all on the same page as me, although some of them didn't know Horatio Nelson. It just seems like he has a Shakespearean type influence in engineering but is not as "god-like" famous as Einstein, Beethoven, Van Gogh etc. Any thoughts? Aza24 ( talk) 22:03, 2 November 2020 (UTC)
IKB's strengths were civil engineering (especially bridges for the railways but also roads) and marine engineering (his ships were innovative but the Great Western was not the first steam ship to cross the Atlantic and the Great Eastern was something of a white elephant). He left railway locomotives to others (Daniel Gooch in particular) He seems to be better known in Britain than some of his contemporaries and this puzzles me. Thomas Telford (civil engineer for roads and canals) and George and Robert Stephenson who were locomotive and civil engineers seem much more important to me and yet they come much further down the list of 100 Great Britons. George Stephenson is in the list-I am not sure the other two are on it. Sorry if this is too much of an opinion based comment. Spinney Hill ( talk) 10:00, 3 November 2020 (UTC).