Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
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Libraries' cataloguing records, such as
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Deor (
talk)
15:02, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Tutuila before European rule
Who ruled
Tutuila prior to European colonialism? There was the Fa'amatai system and title holders such as the Malietoa, Mata'afa, Tuimaleali'ifano and Tupua Tamasese, together known as the Tama-a-Aiga ruled in other islands. The Tui Manua ruled in the Manua Islands. So who were the indigenous rulers who control Tutuila? -- 15 April 2020 69.209.14.47
Our
History of American Samoa article states (without giving a source), that "[t]he islands of Tutuila and Aunu'u were politically connected to 'Upolu island in what is now independent Samoa." It is not clear from that sentence whether that connection means that Tutuila was subordinate to
'Upolu, but
this page in volume 1 of a translation of
Augustin Kraemer's 1903 monograph Die Samoa Inseln, suggests that the relation was that of an alliance: "gifts of Upolo chiefs [...] to their Tutuila comrades in battle, since Tutuila was obligated to stand with the Atua district in times of war". The same page has a tantalizing mention that "the family of Mauga in Pagopago ... produced the liberator of Tutuila from Tonga", without further explanation. The
preceding page mentions "the Leʻiato, the most powerful family of chiefs" (of Tutuila). This suggests that Tutuila was originally ruled by Tonga, and autonomous after the liberation. --
Lambiam11:00, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Well, the cover of their 1979 manifesto looked like
this, but I don't think you would call that a logo exactly. Then there was
this poster, also from 1979, which has the party name and a cross. That's more like a logo, but I don't think it was a logo for the party itself, just for that year's election campaign. --
Viennese Waltz07:55, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
There was a "Torch of Freedom" logo introduced by Margaret Thatcher in 1977.[1][2] The "revamped" Torch referred to can be admired, side by side to its predecessor,
here. --
Lambiam09:09, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Don't be so hasty. I don't believe the sources dating the original torch to 1977, it looks too modern for that, and indeed the Guardian source puts it at the 1980s. Then there is
this (not a reliable source) which puts the hand holding the torch at 1989 and an earlier variant of the torch at 1982. My guess is that the OP's specific mention of 1982 suggests that they are aware of the original 1982 torch. I still believe the answer to the OP's question, as mentioned in my original reply, is "no". --
Viennese Waltz07:59, 16 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Images of Power: How the Image Makers Shape Our Leaders (p. 120) which says: "...business embraced these new ideas more enthusiastically than political parties, but when Sir Christopher Lawson arrived from the former to advise the latter in 1981, the design revolution finally conquered the political process. Lawson was aghast to find that the Tory party effectively had no logo, just a collection of miscellaneous symbols representing each small outpost of it. He immediately set about remedying the situation, developing a design based on a combination of the Olympic flame and the Union Flag, which, after much opposition from the more old-fashioned wing of the party, was adopted for the 1983 election".
It looks like a decorative element on a large marble building, perhaps a neo-classical church building or something like that. The image doesn't even give enough context to estimate size. It does not appear to be a prominent monument of any that I know of, and I can't even identify the city from the background buildings. Can you say more about where you found the image or got the screenshot from? With some more clues, someone may be able to help you better. --
Jayron3218:04, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Indeed! I'd be interested to know how Alan used Google to identify that. Or was it just used to confirm the location after recognizing the thing from memory, if Alan is familiar with that part of NYC? --
76.71.6.31 (
talk)
19:15, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The skyscrapers make NYC a plausible location. A Google search for "statues in New York City" gives this one as one of the first results. --
Lambiam07:44, 16 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Pretty much how I did it. It looked like an American sort of eagle to me, (I was thinking of the
Chrysler Building eagles) and I'm certain I've seen that skyscraper with the detached spire before (still not sure what it is). I tried "New York monument" and there are a LOT of those, so then I tried "Manhatten monument" and Bob's your uncle.
Alansplodge (
talk)
14:18, 16 April 2020 (UTC)reply
For those not in the know cyrillically-speaking, the symbols at the lower left, США, are the Cyrillic for S Sh A, short for the Russian Соединённые Штаты Америки, meaning United States of America, or USA. --
Jack of Oz[pleasantries]08:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is a
transcluded archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the
current reference desk pages.
Libraries' cataloguing records, such as
this, specify 296 pages. That's usually the number of numbered pages, omitting title page, dedication page, etc.
Deor (
talk)
15:02, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Tutuila before European rule
Who ruled
Tutuila prior to European colonialism? There was the Fa'amatai system and title holders such as the Malietoa, Mata'afa, Tuimaleali'ifano and Tupua Tamasese, together known as the Tama-a-Aiga ruled in other islands. The Tui Manua ruled in the Manua Islands. So who were the indigenous rulers who control Tutuila? -- 15 April 2020 69.209.14.47
Our
History of American Samoa article states (without giving a source), that "[t]he islands of Tutuila and Aunu'u were politically connected to 'Upolu island in what is now independent Samoa." It is not clear from that sentence whether that connection means that Tutuila was subordinate to
'Upolu, but
this page in volume 1 of a translation of
Augustin Kraemer's 1903 monograph Die Samoa Inseln, suggests that the relation was that of an alliance: "gifts of Upolo chiefs [...] to their Tutuila comrades in battle, since Tutuila was obligated to stand with the Atua district in times of war". The same page has a tantalizing mention that "the family of Mauga in Pagopago ... produced the liberator of Tutuila from Tonga", without further explanation. The
preceding page mentions "the Leʻiato, the most powerful family of chiefs" (of Tutuila). This suggests that Tutuila was originally ruled by Tonga, and autonomous after the liberation. --
Lambiam11:00, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Well, the cover of their 1979 manifesto looked like
this, but I don't think you would call that a logo exactly. Then there was
this poster, also from 1979, which has the party name and a cross. That's more like a logo, but I don't think it was a logo for the party itself, just for that year's election campaign. --
Viennese Waltz07:55, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
There was a "Torch of Freedom" logo introduced by Margaret Thatcher in 1977.[1][2] The "revamped" Torch referred to can be admired, side by side to its predecessor,
here. --
Lambiam09:09, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Don't be so hasty. I don't believe the sources dating the original torch to 1977, it looks too modern for that, and indeed the Guardian source puts it at the 1980s. Then there is
this (not a reliable source) which puts the hand holding the torch at 1989 and an earlier variant of the torch at 1982. My guess is that the OP's specific mention of 1982 suggests that they are aware of the original 1982 torch. I still believe the answer to the OP's question, as mentioned in my original reply, is "no". --
Viennese Waltz07:59, 16 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Images of Power: How the Image Makers Shape Our Leaders (p. 120) which says: "...business embraced these new ideas more enthusiastically than political parties, but when Sir Christopher Lawson arrived from the former to advise the latter in 1981, the design revolution finally conquered the political process. Lawson was aghast to find that the Tory party effectively had no logo, just a collection of miscellaneous symbols representing each small outpost of it. He immediately set about remedying the situation, developing a design based on a combination of the Olympic flame and the Union Flag, which, after much opposition from the more old-fashioned wing of the party, was adopted for the 1983 election".
It looks like a decorative element on a large marble building, perhaps a neo-classical church building or something like that. The image doesn't even give enough context to estimate size. It does not appear to be a prominent monument of any that I know of, and I can't even identify the city from the background buildings. Can you say more about where you found the image or got the screenshot from? With some more clues, someone may be able to help you better. --
Jayron3218:04, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Indeed! I'd be interested to know how Alan used Google to identify that. Or was it just used to confirm the location after recognizing the thing from memory, if Alan is familiar with that part of NYC? --
76.71.6.31 (
talk)
19:15, 15 April 2020 (UTC)reply
The skyscrapers make NYC a plausible location. A Google search for "statues in New York City" gives this one as one of the first results. --
Lambiam07:44, 16 April 2020 (UTC)reply
Pretty much how I did it. It looked like an American sort of eagle to me, (I was thinking of the
Chrysler Building eagles) and I'm certain I've seen that skyscraper with the detached spire before (still not sure what it is). I tried "New York monument" and there are a LOT of those, so then I tried "Manhatten monument" and Bob's your uncle.
Alansplodge (
talk)
14:18, 16 April 2020 (UTC)reply
For those not in the know cyrillically-speaking, the symbols at the lower left, США, are the Cyrillic for S Sh A, short for the Russian Соединённые Штаты Америки, meaning United States of America, or USA. --
Jack of Oz[pleasantries]08:41, 16 April 2020 (UTC)reply