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June 14 Information
Three-legged stool trick
In
Transfer of sovereignty of Hong Kong, the PRC repeatedly accused Britain of "making a three-legged stool" or playing the three-legged stool trick. What exactly is the three-legged stool trick? --
50.125.164.39 (
talk) 08:07, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
The negotiations were supposed to be between the British and Chinese governments. First the Governor, and then the Legislative Council, wanted to be part of the talks to speak for Hong Kong's citizens. The Chinese saw this as a British attempt to unfairly sway the proceedings.
Rojomoke (
talk) 10:07, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Recent Hereditary peerages
Do we have somewhere a list of hereditary peers created by Elizabeth II? I know of Snowdon, but I think there are at least 5 more, according to our article
Hereditary peers. Does Duke of York, Duke of Cambridge and Earl of Wessex count, given that they were already royals? --
Lgriot (
talk) 10:54, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Yes, they most certainly count.
Surtsicna (
talk) 11:08, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Not sure if there's a list but hereditary peerages were regularly created up until 1965 when the government switched to life peerages only. The only peerages created since then are:
Viscount Whitelaw 1983 - conferred on a man with no sons so de facto a life peerage
The lesser titles are all inherited the same way as the Dukedoms & Earldoms. Up until 1999 Royals with peerages did sit in the Lords and some did exercise this although in modern times I think it tended to be the Queen's cousins rather than sons and they usually restricted themselves to subjects related to their charities and technical expertise.
All the peerages created for Royals can in theory be inherited for as long as the male line lives, long after the holder has any Prince/HRH title or living direct memory of such an ancestor. York has no sons and Cambridge is second heir apparant to the throne so that's unlikely to happen, but if the Earl of Wessex's son spawns a dynasty then that title could go on for centuries.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 11:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Margadale was a 1965 creation which is more usually the cutoff date than 1964 as there were a few leftovers from the dissolution & resignation honours.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 11:40, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Fair enuf. As for the list of all peerages created by Elizabeth II, it can be derived fairly easily by looking at:
Thanks Jack. So I count 94 Barons, 22 Viscounts (there were 4 viscount creations in 1952, I count them all as QEII creation, but actually I am not sure if any were created by her father in Jan), 7 Earls and 2 Dukes. That is a total of 125 titles, but there are several peers that have more then one title, so I would have to do more work to figure out the actually # of hereditary peers. I must not be too far from 115 or 120, though. --
Lgriot (
talk) 15:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Resolved
Not counting the non-peerage but hereditary titles like
Baronet Thatcher, of course.
Rmhermen (
talk) 16:57, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Very good point, Rmhermen, so baronets are not peers, but how do we know which barons are peers, and which are not? Are they all peers? --
Lgriot (
talk) 11:49, 17 June 2013 (UTC)reply
forget it,
baronet ansswer that question. --
Lgriot (
talk) 11:52, 17 June 2013 (UTC)reply
All barons are peers, but life peers, who are all barons, are not hereditary.
AlexTiefling (
talk) 15:58, 17 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the
current reference desk pages.
June 14 Information
Three-legged stool trick
In
Transfer of sovereignty of Hong Kong, the PRC repeatedly accused Britain of "making a three-legged stool" or playing the three-legged stool trick. What exactly is the three-legged stool trick? --
50.125.164.39 (
talk) 08:07, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
The negotiations were supposed to be between the British and Chinese governments. First the Governor, and then the Legislative Council, wanted to be part of the talks to speak for Hong Kong's citizens. The Chinese saw this as a British attempt to unfairly sway the proceedings.
Rojomoke (
talk) 10:07, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Recent Hereditary peerages
Do we have somewhere a list of hereditary peers created by Elizabeth II? I know of Snowdon, but I think there are at least 5 more, according to our article
Hereditary peers. Does Duke of York, Duke of Cambridge and Earl of Wessex count, given that they were already royals? --
Lgriot (
talk) 10:54, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Yes, they most certainly count.
Surtsicna (
talk) 11:08, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Not sure if there's a list but hereditary peerages were regularly created up until 1965 when the government switched to life peerages only. The only peerages created since then are:
Viscount Whitelaw 1983 - conferred on a man with no sons so de facto a life peerage
The lesser titles are all inherited the same way as the Dukedoms & Earldoms. Up until 1999 Royals with peerages did sit in the Lords and some did exercise this although in modern times I think it tended to be the Queen's cousins rather than sons and they usually restricted themselves to subjects related to their charities and technical expertise.
All the peerages created for Royals can in theory be inherited for as long as the male line lives, long after the holder has any Prince/HRH title or living direct memory of such an ancestor. York has no sons and Cambridge is second heir apparant to the throne so that's unlikely to happen, but if the Earl of Wessex's son spawns a dynasty then that title could go on for centuries.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 11:16, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Margadale was a 1965 creation which is more usually the cutoff date than 1964 as there were a few leftovers from the dissolution & resignation honours.
Timrollpickering (
talk) 11:40, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Fair enuf. As for the list of all peerages created by Elizabeth II, it can be derived fairly easily by looking at:
Thanks Jack. So I count 94 Barons, 22 Viscounts (there were 4 viscount creations in 1952, I count them all as QEII creation, but actually I am not sure if any were created by her father in Jan), 7 Earls and 2 Dukes. That is a total of 125 titles, but there are several peers that have more then one title, so I would have to do more work to figure out the actually # of hereditary peers. I must not be too far from 115 or 120, though. --
Lgriot (
talk) 15:05, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Resolved
Not counting the non-peerage but hereditary titles like
Baronet Thatcher, of course.
Rmhermen (
talk) 16:57, 14 June 2013 (UTC)reply
Very good point, Rmhermen, so baronets are not peers, but how do we know which barons are peers, and which are not? Are they all peers? --
Lgriot (
talk) 11:49, 17 June 2013 (UTC)reply
forget it,
baronet ansswer that question. --
Lgriot (
talk) 11:52, 17 June 2013 (UTC)reply
All barons are peers, but life peers, who are all barons, are not hereditary.
AlexTiefling (
talk) 15:58, 17 June 2013 (UTC)reply