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Wonders will never cease. For those who’ve never seen the program, To the Manor Born starts off with how the owner of Grantleigh Manor has just died, leaving his widow Audrey in financial circumstances so dire that she has to sell up. The late owner is never seen, just mentioned at various times.
His name was Martin – except it wasn’t Martin at all, but Marton [sic]. This was not the writer's plan for the character. It came about as a simple typo, and when he was made aware of it, the writer wanted to correct it. But the producer liked the unusual spelling and insisted on keeping it, in the spirit of the family name also being unusually spelt: fforbes-Hamilton [sic]. His justification was: “everyone will pronounce it as Martin so what's the difference”. What’s the difference indeed? Viewers never see Marton’s name written anywhere, and its spelling is never mentioned, hence viewers would naturally assume, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, that it was spelt in the usual way, Martin. A perfectly justified assumption normally, and one completely in keeping with Occam's Razor, but one that turns out to be wrong in this case.
There seems to be nothing resembling a point in having an unsuspected and never-mentioned spelling variant like this. It’s pure unadulterated eccentricity for its own sake. And we can’t even blame the writer, except for incompetent typing. Eccentricity I dig big time, but pointless eccentricity just seems like a waste of time.
Are there any similar cases, where in the mind of a writer or co-creator there’s something unusual about a (seen or unseen) character, but it’s decided not to reveal (*) that unusual fact to the readers/viewers, who remain blissfully unaware of it? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 01:55, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
(*) Those who happen to access the program’s website or get hold of the scripts of the series would discover it’s Marton, but even then they’d probably assume it was a typo and would need some convincing otherwise.
Not answering Jack's question but have to agree that there's no denying it, the English are an eccentric lot, not just tv producers. They get up in the morning to a hearty full English breakfast, before donning their Morris Dancing suits followed by a quick burst of God Save the Queen. They then jump on a double-decker bus for the nearest pub to enjoy a pint of warm beer before heading out for a game of cricket on the village green. The spectators respond with rousing shouts of "splendid", "what-ho" and "terribly good, what?" The players go off at 4pm for tea and cakes each one raising their little finger while sipping the lovely beveridge. Oh, and of course their sole topic of conversation is the weather.
Now then, my real reason for responding here: as one born and bred in the northern part of the island of Great Britain, I have never been so insulted in my life to be told that Scotch is a type of whiskey. A type of whiskey indeed! It is WHISKY, what? -- Bill Reid | ( talk) 14:13, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
By the way, in some Scottish manuscript traditions, "ff" was used at the beginning of a word in place of upper-case "F", which is where the thing of lower-case "ff" at the beginning of a name comes from. (Not to be confused with Welsh "ff", which can occur at the beginning of a word, but does not replace capitalization.) AnonMoos ( talk) 23:06, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
What is the current status of the Kucinich lawsuit against Obama for sending military forces to Libya, supposedly in violation of the War Powers Resolution? It seems that the media has neglected this topic, most likely because the public has lost interest in the matter. Is the case likely to go all the way to the Supreme Court? Is this likely to become an issue in the upcoming presidential election? Ragettho ( talk) 03:19, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Here is the docket:
[4]. --
Mwalcoff (
talk) 23:12, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
The city of Babylon existed in the 2nd millennium BC, and still existed around 300 BC when Alexander the Great overthrew the Persian Empire that had threatened Greece. I see to recall that within a century after the time of Mohamed, it was still there and it got conquered or colonized by Muslims. But now it lies in ruins. Was it still a living city in the year 1000? Or 1300? Or 1500? Or 1700? Michael Hardy ( talk) 04:00, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
The sentences handed down by international criminal tribunals such as the ICTY often seem quite lenient relative to those given to 'everyday' murderers and other serious criminals by domestic courts in many countries. See e.g. Veselin Šljivančanin. Given that, I could understand a certain reluctance on the part of countries deposing their dictators (e.g. Libya) to hand them over to the ICC if they might one day be released, whereas a domestic trial might result in a sentence of death or life imprisonment. If someone like Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, now apparently captured, is handed over the ICC and for whatever reason ends up with a ten-year sentence (perhaps they aren't able to pin direct responsibility on him for certain crimes), does this preclude his eventual prosecution and re-sentencing for the same crimes in Libya? As I understand it, the preference is that signatories to the Rome Statute deal with the kind of crimes it covers domestically if possible, and the ICC is there to catch those that fall through the cracks. This would lead me to suspect that under which jurisdiction a trial is held (domestic or international) is a kind of either-or matter, but is that legally the case? If it is, would Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, as a Libyan citizen, ever be discharged into the hands of the Libyan authorities (either at the end of a sentence or if he was found not guilty), if the Libyan authorities intended to prosecute him themselves for whatever he'd faced trial for at the ICC? Similarly, could people currently serving sentences imposed by the ICTY one day find themselves released from international custody then back in jail wherever they'd committed their crimes, after new trials there? Beorhtwulf ( talk) 17:13, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Scipio Africanus had a younger brother named
Lucius Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus. How much younger was Lucius? How many years younger?
According to Lucius's article: He was finally elected consul in 190 BC with his co-consul being his brother's old second-in-command
Gaius Laelius. That last sentence in the section Early career doesn't seem to make sense to me, in the part ...with his co-consul being his brother's old second-in-command
Gaius Laelius. --
Doug Coldwell
talk 18:34, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Additionally, in the reference book "A greater than Napoleon: Scipio Africanus" By Sir Basil Henry Liddell Hart
http://books.google.com/books?id=LfoxYQhpMBUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Scipio+Africanus+Napoleon&hl=en&ei=b6NSTrOQAeHj0QHNtuD0Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=brother%2C%20Lucius&f=false
it states on page 14 that Lucius is Scipio's elder brother. In the article on
Scipio Africanus it says:
Scipio offered himself as a candidate for the quaestorship in the year 213 BC, apparently to assist his less popular cousin, Lucius Cornelius, who was also standing for election.
Is it really suppose to be "less popular cousin, Lucius Cornelius" or is it suppose to be "younger brother" instead?--
Doug Coldwell
talk 18:56, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Adam for reply. One of the Secondary sources for Scipio Africanus is Scipio Africanus: Greater Than Napoleon, W Blackwood and Sons, London, 1926; Biblio and Tannen, New York, 1976. ISBN 0-306-80583-9 by B.H. Liddell Hart. Hart on page 4 of the 1992 edition ISBN 1-85367-132-0 it says
“ | The reliable data on which to base a study and a judgment are practically limited to the words of Polybius and Livy, with but a few grains from other, and admittedly less trustworthy, ancient authorities. And of these two, Polybius, the earlier, is almost contempory with events, the friend of Gaius Laelius, Scipio's constant subordinate, from whom he could get first-hand evidence and judgments. He had the family archives of the Scipios at his disposal for research... | ” |
Hart goes on explaining why he feels Polybius is the most reliable source for Scipio Africanus. I tend to go along with him, rather than the sources you provided. While you say, But Africanus must have been older. you have not furnished any evidence or good sources to this info. Why do you say "But..."? I can provide in both Primary and Secondary sources that Scipio had an older brother. You have not shown any EXACT references, just general Secondary sources that is NOT backed up by any Primary sources or any logic why you believe that Scipio was the eldest son of the family.-- Doug Coldwell talk 18:46, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
What were the three leading practice enterprise risk management measures/principles Enron had in place that were appropriate to its business model? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.135.14.17 ( talk) 18:47, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I was watching the TV show "Storage Wars" the other day. For those unfamiliar with this program, it is a show where several people buy abandoned storage unit contents at an auction, usually without either the buyer or the seller knowing exactly what is in there. My question is what would happen if they were to find stolen goods in the locker, such as "The Concert" by Vermeer? I doubt they would be permitted to keep the piece, but would they get reimbursed for their purchase cost since the seller is not supposed to benefit from the proceeds of a crime (trafficking in stolen goods in this case)? Googlemeister ( talk) 19:05, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
How is it that some countries like Australia, the US, and the UK have been pretty successful at running a country where there are a large amount of immigrants who came from a different culture, whereas other countries were not so successful, such as those of the Balkans, or Sudan? Is it because the successful countries had a very dominate culture at the start and brought in other cultures in smaller doses? Googlemeister ( talk) 19:56, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
The sheer affluence of Australia, America, and England stand out from your counterexamples of Sudan and 'Balkan states'. Where there's wealth, there's harmony. Vranak ( talk) 06:31, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
The relative harmony can also be explained by the fact that the English do not do ideology. If you are a Jew among right-wing Germans, you won't integrate, no matter what. Being a part of English, American or Australian society is more a pragmatic question, a question of how you behave. 88.9.108.128 ( talk) 14:06, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Why is it that many (most?) paramilitary or terrorist groups claim they're against drug dealing? -- Belchman ( talk) 20:32, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Humanities desk | ||
---|---|---|
< August 21 | << Jul | August | Sep >> | August 23 > |
Welcome to the Wikipedia Humanities Reference Desk Archives |
---|
The page you are currently viewing is an archive page. While you can leave answers for any questions shown below, please ask new questions on one of the current reference desk pages. |
Wonders will never cease. For those who’ve never seen the program, To the Manor Born starts off with how the owner of Grantleigh Manor has just died, leaving his widow Audrey in financial circumstances so dire that she has to sell up. The late owner is never seen, just mentioned at various times.
His name was Martin – except it wasn’t Martin at all, but Marton [sic]. This was not the writer's plan for the character. It came about as a simple typo, and when he was made aware of it, the writer wanted to correct it. But the producer liked the unusual spelling and insisted on keeping it, in the spirit of the family name also being unusually spelt: fforbes-Hamilton [sic]. His justification was: “everyone will pronounce it as Martin so what's the difference”. What’s the difference indeed? Viewers never see Marton’s name written anywhere, and its spelling is never mentioned, hence viewers would naturally assume, in the absence of any evidence to the contrary, that it was spelt in the usual way, Martin. A perfectly justified assumption normally, and one completely in keeping with Occam's Razor, but one that turns out to be wrong in this case.
There seems to be nothing resembling a point in having an unsuspected and never-mentioned spelling variant like this. It’s pure unadulterated eccentricity for its own sake. And we can’t even blame the writer, except for incompetent typing. Eccentricity I dig big time, but pointless eccentricity just seems like a waste of time.
Are there any similar cases, where in the mind of a writer or co-creator there’s something unusual about a (seen or unseen) character, but it’s decided not to reveal (*) that unusual fact to the readers/viewers, who remain blissfully unaware of it? -- Jack of Oz [your turn] 01:55, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
(*) Those who happen to access the program’s website or get hold of the scripts of the series would discover it’s Marton, but even then they’d probably assume it was a typo and would need some convincing otherwise.
Not answering Jack's question but have to agree that there's no denying it, the English are an eccentric lot, not just tv producers. They get up in the morning to a hearty full English breakfast, before donning their Morris Dancing suits followed by a quick burst of God Save the Queen. They then jump on a double-decker bus for the nearest pub to enjoy a pint of warm beer before heading out for a game of cricket on the village green. The spectators respond with rousing shouts of "splendid", "what-ho" and "terribly good, what?" The players go off at 4pm for tea and cakes each one raising their little finger while sipping the lovely beveridge. Oh, and of course their sole topic of conversation is the weather.
Now then, my real reason for responding here: as one born and bred in the northern part of the island of Great Britain, I have never been so insulted in my life to be told that Scotch is a type of whiskey. A type of whiskey indeed! It is WHISKY, what? -- Bill Reid | ( talk) 14:13, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
By the way, in some Scottish manuscript traditions, "ff" was used at the beginning of a word in place of upper-case "F", which is where the thing of lower-case "ff" at the beginning of a name comes from. (Not to be confused with Welsh "ff", which can occur at the beginning of a word, but does not replace capitalization.) AnonMoos ( talk) 23:06, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
What is the current status of the Kucinich lawsuit against Obama for sending military forces to Libya, supposedly in violation of the War Powers Resolution? It seems that the media has neglected this topic, most likely because the public has lost interest in the matter. Is the case likely to go all the way to the Supreme Court? Is this likely to become an issue in the upcoming presidential election? Ragettho ( talk) 03:19, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Here is the docket:
[4]. --
Mwalcoff (
talk) 23:12, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
The city of Babylon existed in the 2nd millennium BC, and still existed around 300 BC when Alexander the Great overthrew the Persian Empire that had threatened Greece. I see to recall that within a century after the time of Mohamed, it was still there and it got conquered or colonized by Muslims. But now it lies in ruins. Was it still a living city in the year 1000? Or 1300? Or 1500? Or 1700? Michael Hardy ( talk) 04:00, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
The sentences handed down by international criminal tribunals such as the ICTY often seem quite lenient relative to those given to 'everyday' murderers and other serious criminals by domestic courts in many countries. See e.g. Veselin Šljivančanin. Given that, I could understand a certain reluctance on the part of countries deposing their dictators (e.g. Libya) to hand them over to the ICC if they might one day be released, whereas a domestic trial might result in a sentence of death or life imprisonment. If someone like Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, now apparently captured, is handed over the ICC and for whatever reason ends up with a ten-year sentence (perhaps they aren't able to pin direct responsibility on him for certain crimes), does this preclude his eventual prosecution and re-sentencing for the same crimes in Libya? As I understand it, the preference is that signatories to the Rome Statute deal with the kind of crimes it covers domestically if possible, and the ICC is there to catch those that fall through the cracks. This would lead me to suspect that under which jurisdiction a trial is held (domestic or international) is a kind of either-or matter, but is that legally the case? If it is, would Saif al-Islam Gaddafi, as a Libyan citizen, ever be discharged into the hands of the Libyan authorities (either at the end of a sentence or if he was found not guilty), if the Libyan authorities intended to prosecute him themselves for whatever he'd faced trial for at the ICC? Similarly, could people currently serving sentences imposed by the ICTY one day find themselves released from international custody then back in jail wherever they'd committed their crimes, after new trials there? Beorhtwulf ( talk) 17:13, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Scipio Africanus had a younger brother named
Lucius Cornelius Scipio Asiaticus. How much younger was Lucius? How many years younger?
According to Lucius's article: He was finally elected consul in 190 BC with his co-consul being his brother's old second-in-command
Gaius Laelius. That last sentence in the section Early career doesn't seem to make sense to me, in the part ...with his co-consul being his brother's old second-in-command
Gaius Laelius. --
Doug Coldwell
talk 18:34, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Additionally, in the reference book "A greater than Napoleon: Scipio Africanus" By Sir Basil Henry Liddell Hart
http://books.google.com/books?id=LfoxYQhpMBUC&printsec=frontcover&dq=Scipio+Africanus+Napoleon&hl=en&ei=b6NSTrOQAeHj0QHNtuD0Bg&sa=X&oi=book_result&ct=result&resnum=2&ved=0CDAQ6AEwAQ#v=onepage&q=brother%2C%20Lucius&f=false
it states on page 14 that Lucius is Scipio's elder brother. In the article on
Scipio Africanus it says:
Scipio offered himself as a candidate for the quaestorship in the year 213 BC, apparently to assist his less popular cousin, Lucius Cornelius, who was also standing for election.
Is it really suppose to be "less popular cousin, Lucius Cornelius" or is it suppose to be "younger brother" instead?--
Doug Coldwell
talk 18:56, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
Thanks Adam for reply. One of the Secondary sources for Scipio Africanus is Scipio Africanus: Greater Than Napoleon, W Blackwood and Sons, London, 1926; Biblio and Tannen, New York, 1976. ISBN 0-306-80583-9 by B.H. Liddell Hart. Hart on page 4 of the 1992 edition ISBN 1-85367-132-0 it says
“ | The reliable data on which to base a study and a judgment are practically limited to the words of Polybius and Livy, with but a few grains from other, and admittedly less trustworthy, ancient authorities. And of these two, Polybius, the earlier, is almost contempory with events, the friend of Gaius Laelius, Scipio's constant subordinate, from whom he could get first-hand evidence and judgments. He had the family archives of the Scipios at his disposal for research... | ” |
Hart goes on explaining why he feels Polybius is the most reliable source for Scipio Africanus. I tend to go along with him, rather than the sources you provided. While you say, But Africanus must have been older. you have not furnished any evidence or good sources to this info. Why do you say "But..."? I can provide in both Primary and Secondary sources that Scipio had an older brother. You have not shown any EXACT references, just general Secondary sources that is NOT backed up by any Primary sources or any logic why you believe that Scipio was the eldest son of the family.-- Doug Coldwell talk 18:46, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
What were the three leading practice enterprise risk management measures/principles Enron had in place that were appropriate to its business model? — Preceding unsigned comment added by 41.135.14.17 ( talk) 18:47, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
I was watching the TV show "Storage Wars" the other day. For those unfamiliar with this program, it is a show where several people buy abandoned storage unit contents at an auction, usually without either the buyer or the seller knowing exactly what is in there. My question is what would happen if they were to find stolen goods in the locker, such as "The Concert" by Vermeer? I doubt they would be permitted to keep the piece, but would they get reimbursed for their purchase cost since the seller is not supposed to benefit from the proceeds of a crime (trafficking in stolen goods in this case)? Googlemeister ( talk) 19:05, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
How is it that some countries like Australia, the US, and the UK have been pretty successful at running a country where there are a large amount of immigrants who came from a different culture, whereas other countries were not so successful, such as those of the Balkans, or Sudan? Is it because the successful countries had a very dominate culture at the start and brought in other cultures in smaller doses? Googlemeister ( talk) 19:56, 22 August 2011 (UTC)
The sheer affluence of Australia, America, and England stand out from your counterexamples of Sudan and 'Balkan states'. Where there's wealth, there's harmony. Vranak ( talk) 06:31, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
The relative harmony can also be explained by the fact that the English do not do ideology. If you are a Jew among right-wing Germans, you won't integrate, no matter what. Being a part of English, American or Australian society is more a pragmatic question, a question of how you behave. 88.9.108.128 ( talk) 14:06, 23 August 2011 (UTC)
Why is it that many (most?) paramilitary or terrorist groups claim they're against drug dealing? -- Belchman ( talk) 20:32, 22 August 2011 (UTC)