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The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was Delete. The community is in general very permissive of editors placing a "small and proportionate amount of suitable unrelated material" ( WP:UPYES). The userpage guideline reflects the general consensus that "[...] community-building activities that are not strictly "on topic" may be allowed, especially when initiated by committed Wikipedians with good edit histories.". In this case, and despite Bishonens' valliant efforts to address some of the worse concerns, there is clear consensus that the material is neither proportionate nor suitable. —  Coren  (talk) 02:36, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply

User talk:YOLO Swag/Userpage proposal

User talk:YOLO Swag/Userpage proposal ( | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

we're back to this game again - see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:NWA.Rep and Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:NWA.Rep/Andre DeAngelo Wallace Jr. This mentions at least one living person ( Tila Tequila who is very unlikely ever to have dated this alter ego of RyeinnCertified Gangsta/NWA.Rep/YOLO Swag]], and a number of other parties who could be pure fantasy (the life story recounted by this editor has varied considerably over time), but if they are real, this would be an unsourced BLP. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 23:24, 8 December 2012 (UTC) reply

identical recreation of article previously deleted through discussion - isnt that SPEEDY? -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 23:34, 8 December 2012 (UTC) reply
I didn't think that usually applied in userspace ... -- Elen of the Roads ( talk) 23:52, 8 December 2012 (UTC) From WP:GCSD G4 A sufficiently identical and unimproved copy, having any title, of a page deleted via its most recent deletion discussion. [3] This excludes pages that are not substantially identical to the deleted version, pages to which the reason for the deletion no longer applies, and content moved to user space for explicit improvement (but not simply to circumvent Wikipedia's deletion policy). This criterion also excludes content undeleted via deletion review, or which was deleted via proposed deletion or speedy deletion (although in that case the previous speedy criterion, or other speedy criteria, may apply). So yes, it could be speedied. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 23:56, 8 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Note that both User:Shrigley and User:Dengero are accounts connected to User:Ideogram or alternatively a close friend acting in concert with the person behind the Ideogram account [1]. Ideogram, who was previously community banned, is an anti-Taiwan POV pusher who has engaged in extensive edit warring. Shrigley, so far, refuse to acknowledge on his Shrigley's userpage that he has another account called User:Quigley [2] and may have other sleeper socks (such as User:Guerrilla of the Renmin. He also previously reported me for edit warring not long ago Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive198#User:YOLO_Swag_reported_by_User:Shrigley_.28Result:_No_action.29 when he and his sock Dengero were the ones edit warring.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 01:57, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Your unsubstantiated accusation of sockpuppetry is a personal attack against four separate people. SPI clerks recently rejected a connection between Dengero and Ideogram. I understand that you have a history of spuriously accusing people of sockpuppetry for changing usernames, such as User:PalaceGuard008, despite doing it four times yourself. Also, you were edit-warring, reverting 8 times against 3 people in favor of an ethno-nationalist POV. [3] You got out trouble there, as you always seem to, by calling on your admin friends User:Jehochman and User:Bishonen. And your whole arbcom campaign is based on fighting "insiders"? "Troll" is quite a generous word here. Shrigley ( talk) 05:17, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Your insinuation that I somehow receive preferential treatment from Jehochman and Bishonen is patently ridiculous and I am sure others, even the ones who are advocating this subpage deletion, would agree with me. I believe you owe both of them an apology. For the record, I have very limited interaction with Jehochman. I respect him as an admin for his handling of the User:Ideogram sockpuppet and community ban case back in 2008 (I still believe you and Dengero are connected to Ideogram), which is why I approached him about Dengero's sockpuppet case. I befriended Bish because I admire her courageous, astute, independent, and impartial judgment with her use of administrative tool and her status as a pre-eminent featured article writer. She never shielded me. In fact, she has called me out numerous times for my transgressions in the past and helped me get on the right path here as a productive editor. PalaceGuard008 did not use the proper venue ( Wikipedia:Changing_username/Simple) in Wikipedia:Changing_username/Simple like I did, which transfer all your contributions and block log over. He ditched his User:Sumple account in anger after User:Geogre blocked him for making personal attack against me on his userpage yet immediately created a new account, asked his admin real life friend User:enochlau to publicly announce his departure on AN/I, and subsequently lied about his identity when confronted. He even instructed HongQiGong to be "hush hush" about his identity. That is not exactly the definition of a Wikipedia:Clean_start-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 04:59, 10 December 2012 (UTC) reply
If someone as well established as Bish is willing to work on this, then I'm willing to give it a chance. I'd strongly suggest some sort of "This page is intended as humor/satire" banner IMMEDIATELY though (and "Swedish massage" doesn't quite get it). — Ched :  ?  12:31, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Haha. :-) Thanks for the sentiment, Ched. I'll have a go at the page, and relink the Swedish massage as a priority . Bishonen | talk 13:00, 9 December 2012 (UTC). reply
Keep going - I'll post a list of BLP violations on your userpage. -- Elen of the Roads ( talk) 14:40, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Oh, for... Keep for the present. It's a subpage in userspace and is entitled "userpage proposal". Boney is trying to fix up his userpage so that it won't be deleted when it goes live, and is asking me for advice about how to fix it. [4] It should be quite helpful to him if people give their views on it here, in a way, but, come on, it's a draft, a basis for alterations, does Wikipedia really need saving from it? What is the big deal if it sits inconspicuously in his userspace? If in the end he can't manage to fix it up so it becomes an acceptable userpage, he simply won't put it up. (Or, well, if he does, for I know he can be a bit stubborn like that, I'll promptly delete it myself.) It'll be harder for me to advise him if it's in his text editor, y'know. Could somebody please add one of those bits that I don't understand — you know, the formula which magicks a page so Google won't find it (so it won't hurt any real people mentioned), or something like that? And just let him work on it for a while? It's not like it's the only game ever played on Wikipedia [5], or even the only fake article in userspace. [6] And don't OTHERCRAPEXISTS me, now, please. Bishonen | talk 23:58, 8 December 2012 (UTC). reply
He can fix it up to remove all the BLP violations offwiki. He doesn't need to post it here. BLP violations aren't acceptable anywhere on the project. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 01:31, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Put a tag on it to say that it is an attempt at humour and get rid of any mention of real people. As it stands, it's a BLP violation. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 01:40, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
I asked you to retract the baseless accusation about Ryeinn and sockpuppetry. You have yet to do so.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 01:48, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Point me to where I used the word 'sockpuppet' or 'sockpuppetry'. I'm having difficulty finding it. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 01:56, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
You said I am Ryeinn. I am not. I have made that very clear since your buddy Sven Manguard tried to pin Ryeinn on me last year. Ryeinn was created by an IP address that previously labelled me as "pompous" and a "homosexual" when he vandalized my userpage years ago. It was an attack harassment account.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 02:00, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Also I just removed Tila Tequila's name from the subpage. I am interested in hammering out a compromise. Obviously the Sven Manguard fan club community is not.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 02:03, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
I have struck Ryeinn - I always thought he was you. As a compromise, you can take out all the names of living people and tag the thing to say it's humour, something you should have done before posting it here. And you can drop the personal attacks while you're at it. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 02:08, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Why? Because your buddy Sven Manguard said so? He also tried to pin User:Sky Divine to me when Sky Divine actually edit warred with me in the past Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/NWA.Rep/Archive. Seems like an obvious coordinated attempt to discredit my candidacy more than anything else. I see no reason to take out any other names when I simply cited them as "role models" and "influence" that I looked up to. Many other userpages have similar attributes. I didn't make any personal attacks. If you are that concerned about personal attack, why don't you tell Hot Stop to stop calling me a "troll" in his comment below? Why don't you tell all the voter guide writers to show some respect to someone who has taken a lot of bs and been here longer than a lot of you? To discredit me as a troll in those guides when I have been here since 2006 is offensive and ridiculous.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 02:14, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
YOLO, come on. Dennis Brown and I went over this with you last week: you cannot continue making accusations against other users like this, especially when you remain unwilling to present any evidence onwiki for your accusations. IRC conspiracies? People creating socks to joe-job you? Mysterious evidence you're only willing to provide to people who email you privately? I know you know claiming this stuff isn't ok, because we talked about it at length, the three of us. You don't have to like Sven (or Elen, or whoever), and you don't have to agree with their opinions, but you cannot continue on this path of hurling endless accusations without being willing to publicly substantiate them. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! ( talk) 03:33, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
And I appreciate you and Dennis' input. Just to clarify, I could not post them on-wiki because the link to the site is apparently blacklisted by Wikipedia. Anyway, per Bishy's instruction, I am not going to discuss this matter any further.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 01:12, 10 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • delete it doesn't matter where he puts it; it's full of lies and BLP violations. Recreating this page, previously deleted during last years arbcom election, during the middle of another election seems like trolling to me. If it isn't, I don't know what is. Hot Stop (Talk) 02:04, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
I didn't simply recreate the page. I deleted sections that were part of User:Anna Frodesiak and Bishonen's compromise. Previous consensus that weren't rigged all said "speedy keep" Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Certified.Gangsta Wikipedia_talk:User_pages/UI_spoofing Wikipedia:Lame#User:Certified.Gangsta Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive356#Certified.Gangsta.27s_user_page Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive355#New_messages_bar Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive354#Racism_in_user_page. Last year's MFDs were rigged by IRC off-wiki canvassing by Sven Manguard and his lynch mob. I have the logs as evidence and am interested in showing them to anyone through e-mail. Hot Stop, it seems like the only reason you chimed in is because you are pissed that you got even less votes than me in last year's ArbCom election. You are hardly a neutral voice.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 02:09, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Strong delete - WP:FAKEARTICLE and WP:BLP. "He was arrested at the age of thirteen for shoplifting" is without a source? Major issues here. Reaper Eternal ( talk) 06:08, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • delete the odd bit of harmless humour is fine. However, the pertinent word is "harmless" - it has to be, without question, debate and 100% harmless. Any humour page can be removed without loss to the project, but we can tolerate them if they don't do any harm, waste any time, or cause any contention. The minute they start needing a debate, policing, or cause editors concern, we ought to remove them without question. And indeed, if there's the slightest chance of a BLP violation we should speedy delete (even quicker than we do an article, since there's no change of losing salvageable content). The only reason I'm not killing this right now is that I trust Bishonen enough to know she'd kill it if there was any real BLP issue. But as for letting her police it going forward - no. This can only be a waste of time (it has been already) with no conceivable upside.-- Scott Mac 14:41, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment... Ummmm - there seems to be a lot of crap spilling out here that really doesn't belong. This is a MfD, so could we stick to the topic at hand, and take all the other happy horse-shit elsewhere please? — Ched :  ?  14:47, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete there are clear WP:BLP and WP:FAKEARTICLE concerns here, and the page itself has little or no benefit to the encyclopedia. Hut 8.5 18:56, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - An unquestionably ill-advised fake article to create and maintain and argue over. I would hope that those who have already voted or are planning to vote for this person in the Arbcom election now think twice, as someone with this piss-poor judgement should not be in an such position of authority. Tarc ( talk) 20:47, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Tarc, there's such a thing as unnecessarily sticking the boot in. The outcome of this MfD is obvious, and the arbcom candidature will have a similar outcome. Given that, the personal comment is a little unbecoming.-- Scott Mac 21:18, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
That's a bit rough. Looking at what Bishonen's trying to do, it seems the chap wants something like User:Ka of Catherine de Burgh but isn't cute enough to work out why his offering has caused a furore. Maybe Bish can create something from it, although I'll be frank, it seems to me a waste of effort on the good lady's part. But her time is her own, after all. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 21:48, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. It is a pervasive BLP violation, even if it is in the user space instead of the article space. This is, in no stretch of the imagination whatsoever, worthy of article space. The fact that real people are mentioned in this space is bothersome as well. There is no establishment of notability, and no sources at all for some reason, even for the quotes offered on the page. Some "sources" include an article for deletion discussion and the phrase "according to his mother [name here]". The space goes into detail about political preferences, potential tall tales, and wich basketball players and rap musicians he, well, supports. Tall tales include how there were "conspiracy theories" about his "disappearance", and how he announced his reappearance in a press conference; also, there is the listed controversy, which is sometimes vague. A lot of the information on this page is egregiously unencyclopedic and would have a nonexistent chance in the article space. Also, for his music, this fails Wikipedia:Notability (music), since the record labels are "Andre Wallace Records" and the backing management company that may not exist is "Money Cash Hoes Entertainment", neither of which have enough backing to be notable in themselves on Wikipedia. This page is, sadly, a farce. Backtable Speak to me concerning my deeds. 23:24, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • It's by no stretch of the imagination whatsoever intended for article space, ever. It's a joke bio Yolo wants to use to create his user page, where it used to be at one time (at least I think that was how it was). It was deleted as objectionable in various ways, and now he wants to fix it up so it'll be acceptable on his userpage. You see from his sig how he doesn't have a userpage, and how this page is called "userpage proposal"? He wants input on how to fix it. In particular, he has asked me to edit it. I have already deleted quite a bit of the text, and will probably delete more soon. That's why he put it in his userspace. It has been suggested that he should work on it offline, in a text editor, but he doesn't trust himself to fix it by himself, he wants help, and I (for example) can't edit his text editor. That's the situation. Bishonen | talk 00:23, 10 December 2012 (UTC). reply
  • Yeah, I was not thinking it would be aimed toward admittance into article space, and I knew it was for user page space, due to the title. However, I realize that I emphasized hypothetical article space admittance too much in my post. I apologize for my rhetoric, which was not proportionately focused. Also, I'm not that familiar with the previous history of this and related articles, either, but I'm aware of some basic elements of the relevant history. Backtable Speak to me concerning my deeds. 03:03, 10 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Bish has cleared most of the BLP vios out - he was claiming to be Dr. Dre and to have gone out with a couple of minor celebs, plus there were other BLP vios. Andre Wallace Sr is still an issue - see Bish's talkpage. And it's not funny enough - I've told him this. San Serif was funny. The spaghetti harvest was funny. Guiness's toucan park was funny. Now it's been hacked about it's less of a BLP vio and less offensive, but to work as a spoof page it needs to be actually funny ho ho once you realise you've been spoofed. This just looks (whatever he intended) like someone who really wanted to be Dr. Dre. Volunteer gag writer anyone? Elen of the Roads ( talk) 20:49, 15 December 2012 (UTC) reply
It's parody not spoof. Humour is subjective, and we should not discriminate against people for a poor sense of humour, even if we were able to identify it. For ethical reasons. For practical reasons it would rid us of 4/5 of the more troublesome folk around here, but slave morality says that we should not do that. Rich  Farmbrough, 23:15, 15 December 2012 (UTC). reply
Te debate is about whether to keep a page, not a person. No one is suggesting we rid ourselves of anyone.-- Scott Mac 23:28, 15 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Maybe I was waxing polemical, nonetheless saying "You could have this if I found it funny." strikes me as plain wrong. Rich  Farmbrough, 14:48, 16 December 2012 (UTC). reply
I was thinking more along the lines of "if anyone found it funny." Wikipedia isn't a webhost, but we do allow regular contributors to keep the odd amusing (or polemic for that matter) piece in their userspace. I have suggested to the author that if he makes a few decent contributions and gets rid of the BLP, he'd have an easier ride. He'd also have an easier ride if it was more obviously a parody and not either an attempt to construct a fake identity or a vehicle from which to launch misogyny and potshots at the Chinese (yes, some rappers do have the most toxic views of women, world politics etc, but to be a parody it would have to - you know - parody them, not just parrot them). Elen of the Roads ( talk) 16:26, 16 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Rich is correct. Just because some Wikipedians find User:Ka of Catherine de Burgh funny but don't find my subpage funny doesn't mean it is not funny. Humor is subjective. This type of elitist mindset does not help Wikipedia in editor retention. I also never claimed to be Dr. Dre. I only cited him as an idol and influence. The current Wikipedia power structure seems to only want to attract the same type of boring colorless pseudo-intellectuals but not anyone other type of editor who don't fit into the same archetype and treat us like we are "inferior minds". They seem to think only The New Yorker style of humor is acceptable but not XXL (magazine) Baracka_Flacka_Flames type of humor. I feel the only reason we have gone this far is this type of elitist mindset. I strongly feel as long as I am adhering to Wikipedia policies, I should not be persecuted for my personality.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 00:21, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete I found myself asking the same question as ASO. Go Phightins ! 13:48, 16 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete if YOLO continues the editing pattern of the last couple years. Keep if he decides to become a productive contributor again. (As long as all potential BLP issues are addressed.) We give latitude to productive editors on their userpages. We shouldn't allow someone who shows up once a year to run for arbcom and make a few edits around that time to host silly nonsense. If you want to keep your page, contribute. -- Onorem ♠ Dil 14:43, 16 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I am more than willing to come back and edit productively, Onorem. The only reason I left Wikipedia last year was because voter guide writers conspired and canvassed on IRC last year to delete my beloved userpage and launched a baseless sockpuppet investigation against me. There are a lot of NPOV work that I would like to do as I had done in the past. But I simply do not wish to edit under such a restrictive toxic environment where I feel admins with elitist mindsets are treating me like a trashy, inferior mind and somehow determine only User:Ka of Catherine de Burgh type of humor is funny but not my XXL (magazine) Baracka_Flacka_Flames type of humor. I am who I am. I will never sell out or pretend to be one of those pseudo-intellectuals. I feel as long as I am adhering to Wikipedia policies, I should not be persecuted for my personality.
  • Isn't it about time to stick a fork in this turkey? 10 days and counting... Tarc ( talk) 19:02, 18 December 2012 (UTC) reply
    • The subpage that was nominated for deletion looks very different from the subpage right now that Bishonen cleaned up. I made a lot of concessions on this including creating a subpage entitled "userpage proposal" in order to seek community feedbacks and consensus instead of simply recreating it on my userpage as well as giving Bish a free hand in editing the page as she sees fit. I expect a gesture of goodwill from the community to allow me to keep this subpage. Otherwise, it would reflect very poorly on the community and would not help editor retention effort.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 00:21, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
      • Sorry, that just sounds like "I'm going to leave in an immature huff if I don't get to keep my 'joke' page". Look above, the community's view is pretty clear.-- Scott Mac 00:42, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
        • Only a faction of the community view is represented here. In previous instances with significantly more community input Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Certified.Gangsta Wikipedia_talk:User_page/UI_spoofing Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars#User:Certified.Gangsta, I was always allowed to keep my userpage as it was. Now, I made a lot of concessions this time around in terms of joke banner, Taiwan vs. China related issues, and girls. I also give Bishonen, a widely respected and established admin, to edit this subpage as she sees fit. I also stopped short of restoring my userpage and only created the subpage as a "proposal" for a userpage that would be deemed acceptable. It was appalling that this gesture of goodwill was nominated for deletion less than an hour. Now that Bish is done deleting stuff, could we just move on and focus on stuff that actually matters? (Such as editing the mainspace?)-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 00:49, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
          • Oh, get over yourself. The fact that even this small fraction of the community has had to waste its time on this unnecessary page is disappointing. If folk have silly joke pages and they cause no distension, no harm done. But the minute they cause concern (valid or not) they should be removed and we get back to doing stuff that matters to the encyclopedia. The correct response from you is not to shout that you've been hard done by, and make "concessions" (concessions to what?) but to remove the redundant page and end the whole affair. There is nothing of value here to make this controversy worthwhile. Now, this will close soon as delete. Learn the lesson and let it be at that.-- Scott Mac 01:19, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
            • Other people have joke pages with no problems. What has been happening here is personal vendetta and pay back for issues that have nothing to do with my userpage. The fact that I am not an admin also does not help. You seem to be saying I should turn a blind eye when I am getting treated unfairly. Like many astute Wikipedians have said here Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Certified.Gangsta Wikipedia_talk:User_page/UI_spoofing, no one is forcing you to stare at my subpage all the time. You're the one who should get over yourself. This type of arrogant elitist mindset would not help Wikipedia attract more editors of diverse backgrounds.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 01:35, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


Retrieved from " https://en.wikipedia.org/?title=Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User_talk:YOLO_Swag/Userpage_proposal&oldid=1142594343"
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.

The result of the discussion was Delete. The community is in general very permissive of editors placing a "small and proportionate amount of suitable unrelated material" ( WP:UPYES). The userpage guideline reflects the general consensus that "[...] community-building activities that are not strictly "on topic" may be allowed, especially when initiated by committed Wikipedians with good edit histories.". In this case, and despite Bishonens' valliant efforts to address some of the worse concerns, there is clear consensus that the material is neither proportionate nor suitable. —  Coren  (talk) 02:36, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply

User talk:YOLO Swag/Userpage proposal

User talk:YOLO Swag/Userpage proposal ( | subject | history | links | watch | logs)

we're back to this game again - see Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:NWA.Rep and Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:NWA.Rep/Andre DeAngelo Wallace Jr. This mentions at least one living person ( Tila Tequila who is very unlikely ever to have dated this alter ego of RyeinnCertified Gangsta/NWA.Rep/YOLO Swag]], and a number of other parties who could be pure fantasy (the life story recounted by this editor has varied considerably over time), but if they are real, this would be an unsourced BLP. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 23:24, 8 December 2012 (UTC) reply

identical recreation of article previously deleted through discussion - isnt that SPEEDY? -- TRPoD aka The Red Pen of Doom 23:34, 8 December 2012 (UTC) reply
I didn't think that usually applied in userspace ... -- Elen of the Roads ( talk) 23:52, 8 December 2012 (UTC) From WP:GCSD G4 A sufficiently identical and unimproved copy, having any title, of a page deleted via its most recent deletion discussion. [3] This excludes pages that are not substantially identical to the deleted version, pages to which the reason for the deletion no longer applies, and content moved to user space for explicit improvement (but not simply to circumvent Wikipedia's deletion policy). This criterion also excludes content undeleted via deletion review, or which was deleted via proposed deletion or speedy deletion (although in that case the previous speedy criterion, or other speedy criteria, may apply). So yes, it could be speedied. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 23:56, 8 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Note that both User:Shrigley and User:Dengero are accounts connected to User:Ideogram or alternatively a close friend acting in concert with the person behind the Ideogram account [1]. Ideogram, who was previously community banned, is an anti-Taiwan POV pusher who has engaged in extensive edit warring. Shrigley, so far, refuse to acknowledge on his Shrigley's userpage that he has another account called User:Quigley [2] and may have other sleeper socks (such as User:Guerrilla of the Renmin. He also previously reported me for edit warring not long ago Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/3RRArchive198#User:YOLO_Swag_reported_by_User:Shrigley_.28Result:_No_action.29 when he and his sock Dengero were the ones edit warring.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 01:57, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Your unsubstantiated accusation of sockpuppetry is a personal attack against four separate people. SPI clerks recently rejected a connection between Dengero and Ideogram. I understand that you have a history of spuriously accusing people of sockpuppetry for changing usernames, such as User:PalaceGuard008, despite doing it four times yourself. Also, you were edit-warring, reverting 8 times against 3 people in favor of an ethno-nationalist POV. [3] You got out trouble there, as you always seem to, by calling on your admin friends User:Jehochman and User:Bishonen. And your whole arbcom campaign is based on fighting "insiders"? "Troll" is quite a generous word here. Shrigley ( talk) 05:17, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Your insinuation that I somehow receive preferential treatment from Jehochman and Bishonen is patently ridiculous and I am sure others, even the ones who are advocating this subpage deletion, would agree with me. I believe you owe both of them an apology. For the record, I have very limited interaction with Jehochman. I respect him as an admin for his handling of the User:Ideogram sockpuppet and community ban case back in 2008 (I still believe you and Dengero are connected to Ideogram), which is why I approached him about Dengero's sockpuppet case. I befriended Bish because I admire her courageous, astute, independent, and impartial judgment with her use of administrative tool and her status as a pre-eminent featured article writer. She never shielded me. In fact, she has called me out numerous times for my transgressions in the past and helped me get on the right path here as a productive editor. PalaceGuard008 did not use the proper venue ( Wikipedia:Changing_username/Simple) in Wikipedia:Changing_username/Simple like I did, which transfer all your contributions and block log over. He ditched his User:Sumple account in anger after User:Geogre blocked him for making personal attack against me on his userpage yet immediately created a new account, asked his admin real life friend User:enochlau to publicly announce his departure on AN/I, and subsequently lied about his identity when confronted. He even instructed HongQiGong to be "hush hush" about his identity. That is not exactly the definition of a Wikipedia:Clean_start-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 04:59, 10 December 2012 (UTC) reply
If someone as well established as Bish is willing to work on this, then I'm willing to give it a chance. I'd strongly suggest some sort of "This page is intended as humor/satire" banner IMMEDIATELY though (and "Swedish massage" doesn't quite get it). — Ched :  ?  12:31, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Haha. :-) Thanks for the sentiment, Ched. I'll have a go at the page, and relink the Swedish massage as a priority . Bishonen | talk 13:00, 9 December 2012 (UTC). reply
Keep going - I'll post a list of BLP violations on your userpage. -- Elen of the Roads ( talk) 14:40, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Oh, for... Keep for the present. It's a subpage in userspace and is entitled "userpage proposal". Boney is trying to fix up his userpage so that it won't be deleted when it goes live, and is asking me for advice about how to fix it. [4] It should be quite helpful to him if people give their views on it here, in a way, but, come on, it's a draft, a basis for alterations, does Wikipedia really need saving from it? What is the big deal if it sits inconspicuously in his userspace? If in the end he can't manage to fix it up so it becomes an acceptable userpage, he simply won't put it up. (Or, well, if he does, for I know he can be a bit stubborn like that, I'll promptly delete it myself.) It'll be harder for me to advise him if it's in his text editor, y'know. Could somebody please add one of those bits that I don't understand — you know, the formula which magicks a page so Google won't find it (so it won't hurt any real people mentioned), or something like that? And just let him work on it for a while? It's not like it's the only game ever played on Wikipedia [5], or even the only fake article in userspace. [6] And don't OTHERCRAPEXISTS me, now, please. Bishonen | talk 23:58, 8 December 2012 (UTC). reply
He can fix it up to remove all the BLP violations offwiki. He doesn't need to post it here. BLP violations aren't acceptable anywhere on the project. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 01:31, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Put a tag on it to say that it is an attempt at humour and get rid of any mention of real people. As it stands, it's a BLP violation. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 01:40, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
I asked you to retract the baseless accusation about Ryeinn and sockpuppetry. You have yet to do so.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 01:48, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Point me to where I used the word 'sockpuppet' or 'sockpuppetry'. I'm having difficulty finding it. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 01:56, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
You said I am Ryeinn. I am not. I have made that very clear since your buddy Sven Manguard tried to pin Ryeinn on me last year. Ryeinn was created by an IP address that previously labelled me as "pompous" and a "homosexual" when he vandalized my userpage years ago. It was an attack harassment account.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 02:00, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Also I just removed Tila Tequila's name from the subpage. I am interested in hammering out a compromise. Obviously the Sven Manguard fan club community is not.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 02:03, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
I have struck Ryeinn - I always thought he was you. As a compromise, you can take out all the names of living people and tag the thing to say it's humour, something you should have done before posting it here. And you can drop the personal attacks while you're at it. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 02:08, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Why? Because your buddy Sven Manguard said so? He also tried to pin User:Sky Divine to me when Sky Divine actually edit warred with me in the past Wikipedia:Sockpuppet_investigations/NWA.Rep/Archive. Seems like an obvious coordinated attempt to discredit my candidacy more than anything else. I see no reason to take out any other names when I simply cited them as "role models" and "influence" that I looked up to. Many other userpages have similar attributes. I didn't make any personal attacks. If you are that concerned about personal attack, why don't you tell Hot Stop to stop calling me a "troll" in his comment below? Why don't you tell all the voter guide writers to show some respect to someone who has taken a lot of bs and been here longer than a lot of you? To discredit me as a troll in those guides when I have been here since 2006 is offensive and ridiculous.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 02:14, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
YOLO, come on. Dennis Brown and I went over this with you last week: you cannot continue making accusations against other users like this, especially when you remain unwilling to present any evidence onwiki for your accusations. IRC conspiracies? People creating socks to joe-job you? Mysterious evidence you're only willing to provide to people who email you privately? I know you know claiming this stuff isn't ok, because we talked about it at length, the three of us. You don't have to like Sven (or Elen, or whoever), and you don't have to agree with their opinions, but you cannot continue on this path of hurling endless accusations without being willing to publicly substantiate them. A fluffernutter is a sandwich! ( talk) 03:33, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
And I appreciate you and Dennis' input. Just to clarify, I could not post them on-wiki because the link to the site is apparently blacklisted by Wikipedia. Anyway, per Bishy's instruction, I am not going to discuss this matter any further.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 01:12, 10 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • delete it doesn't matter where he puts it; it's full of lies and BLP violations. Recreating this page, previously deleted during last years arbcom election, during the middle of another election seems like trolling to me. If it isn't, I don't know what is. Hot Stop (Talk) 02:04, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
I didn't simply recreate the page. I deleted sections that were part of User:Anna Frodesiak and Bishonen's compromise. Previous consensus that weren't rigged all said "speedy keep" Wikipedia:Miscellany for deletion/User:Certified.Gangsta Wikipedia_talk:User_pages/UI_spoofing Wikipedia:Lame#User:Certified.Gangsta Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive356#Certified.Gangsta.27s_user_page Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive355#New_messages_bar Wikipedia:Administrators'_noticeboard/IncidentArchive354#Racism_in_user_page. Last year's MFDs were rigged by IRC off-wiki canvassing by Sven Manguard and his lynch mob. I have the logs as evidence and am interested in showing them to anyone through e-mail. Hot Stop, it seems like the only reason you chimed in is because you are pissed that you got even less votes than me in last year's ArbCom election. You are hardly a neutral voice.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 02:09, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Strong delete - WP:FAKEARTICLE and WP:BLP. "He was arrested at the age of thirteen for shoplifting" is without a source? Major issues here. Reaper Eternal ( talk) 06:08, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • delete the odd bit of harmless humour is fine. However, the pertinent word is "harmless" - it has to be, without question, debate and 100% harmless. Any humour page can be removed without loss to the project, but we can tolerate them if they don't do any harm, waste any time, or cause any contention. The minute they start needing a debate, policing, or cause editors concern, we ought to remove them without question. And indeed, if there's the slightest chance of a BLP violation we should speedy delete (even quicker than we do an article, since there's no change of losing salvageable content). The only reason I'm not killing this right now is that I trust Bishonen enough to know she'd kill it if there was any real BLP issue. But as for letting her police it going forward - no. This can only be a waste of time (it has been already) with no conceivable upside.-- Scott Mac 14:41, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Comment... Ummmm - there seems to be a lot of crap spilling out here that really doesn't belong. This is a MfD, so could we stick to the topic at hand, and take all the other happy horse-shit elsewhere please? — Ched :  ?  14:47, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete there are clear WP:BLP and WP:FAKEARTICLE concerns here, and the page itself has little or no benefit to the encyclopedia. Hut 8.5 18:56, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete - An unquestionably ill-advised fake article to create and maintain and argue over. I would hope that those who have already voted or are planning to vote for this person in the Arbcom election now think twice, as someone with this piss-poor judgement should not be in an such position of authority. Tarc ( talk) 20:47, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
    • Tarc, there's such a thing as unnecessarily sticking the boot in. The outcome of this MfD is obvious, and the arbcom candidature will have a similar outcome. Given that, the personal comment is a little unbecoming.-- Scott Mac 21:18, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
That's a bit rough. Looking at what Bishonen's trying to do, it seems the chap wants something like User:Ka of Catherine de Burgh but isn't cute enough to work out why his offering has caused a furore. Maybe Bish can create something from it, although I'll be frank, it seems to me a waste of effort on the good lady's part. But her time is her own, after all. Elen of the Roads ( talk) 21:48, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete. It is a pervasive BLP violation, even if it is in the user space instead of the article space. This is, in no stretch of the imagination whatsoever, worthy of article space. The fact that real people are mentioned in this space is bothersome as well. There is no establishment of notability, and no sources at all for some reason, even for the quotes offered on the page. Some "sources" include an article for deletion discussion and the phrase "according to his mother [name here]". The space goes into detail about political preferences, potential tall tales, and wich basketball players and rap musicians he, well, supports. Tall tales include how there were "conspiracy theories" about his "disappearance", and how he announced his reappearance in a press conference; also, there is the listed controversy, which is sometimes vague. A lot of the information on this page is egregiously unencyclopedic and would have a nonexistent chance in the article space. Also, for his music, this fails Wikipedia:Notability (music), since the record labels are "Andre Wallace Records" and the backing management company that may not exist is "Money Cash Hoes Entertainment", neither of which have enough backing to be notable in themselves on Wikipedia. This page is, sadly, a farce. Backtable Speak to me concerning my deeds. 23:24, 9 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • It's by no stretch of the imagination whatsoever intended for article space, ever. It's a joke bio Yolo wants to use to create his user page, where it used to be at one time (at least I think that was how it was). It was deleted as objectionable in various ways, and now he wants to fix it up so it'll be acceptable on his userpage. You see from his sig how he doesn't have a userpage, and how this page is called "userpage proposal"? He wants input on how to fix it. In particular, he has asked me to edit it. I have already deleted quite a bit of the text, and will probably delete more soon. That's why he put it in his userspace. It has been suggested that he should work on it offline, in a text editor, but he doesn't trust himself to fix it by himself, he wants help, and I (for example) can't edit his text editor. That's the situation. Bishonen | talk 00:23, 10 December 2012 (UTC). reply
  • Yeah, I was not thinking it would be aimed toward admittance into article space, and I knew it was for user page space, due to the title. However, I realize that I emphasized hypothetical article space admittance too much in my post. I apologize for my rhetoric, which was not proportionately focused. Also, I'm not that familiar with the previous history of this and related articles, either, but I'm aware of some basic elements of the relevant history. Backtable Speak to me concerning my deeds. 03:03, 10 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Bish has cleared most of the BLP vios out - he was claiming to be Dr. Dre and to have gone out with a couple of minor celebs, plus there were other BLP vios. Andre Wallace Sr is still an issue - see Bish's talkpage. And it's not funny enough - I've told him this. San Serif was funny. The spaghetti harvest was funny. Guiness's toucan park was funny. Now it's been hacked about it's less of a BLP vio and less offensive, but to work as a spoof page it needs to be actually funny ho ho once you realise you've been spoofed. This just looks (whatever he intended) like someone who really wanted to be Dr. Dre. Volunteer gag writer anyone? Elen of the Roads ( talk) 20:49, 15 December 2012 (UTC) reply
It's parody not spoof. Humour is subjective, and we should not discriminate against people for a poor sense of humour, even if we were able to identify it. For ethical reasons. For practical reasons it would rid us of 4/5 of the more troublesome folk around here, but slave morality says that we should not do that. Rich  Farmbrough, 23:15, 15 December 2012 (UTC). reply
Te debate is about whether to keep a page, not a person. No one is suggesting we rid ourselves of anyone.-- Scott Mac 23:28, 15 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Maybe I was waxing polemical, nonetheless saying "You could have this if I found it funny." strikes me as plain wrong. Rich  Farmbrough, 14:48, 16 December 2012 (UTC). reply
I was thinking more along the lines of "if anyone found it funny." Wikipedia isn't a webhost, but we do allow regular contributors to keep the odd amusing (or polemic for that matter) piece in their userspace. I have suggested to the author that if he makes a few decent contributions and gets rid of the BLP, he'd have an easier ride. He'd also have an easier ride if it was more obviously a parody and not either an attempt to construct a fake identity or a vehicle from which to launch misogyny and potshots at the Chinese (yes, some rappers do have the most toxic views of women, world politics etc, but to be a parody it would have to - you know - parody them, not just parrot them). Elen of the Roads ( talk) 16:26, 16 December 2012 (UTC) reply
Rich is correct. Just because some Wikipedians find User:Ka of Catherine de Burgh funny but don't find my subpage funny doesn't mean it is not funny. Humor is subjective. This type of elitist mindset does not help Wikipedia in editor retention. I also never claimed to be Dr. Dre. I only cited him as an idol and influence. The current Wikipedia power structure seems to only want to attract the same type of boring colorless pseudo-intellectuals but not anyone other type of editor who don't fit into the same archetype and treat us like we are "inferior minds". They seem to think only The New Yorker style of humor is acceptable but not XXL (magazine) Baracka_Flacka_Flames type of humor. I feel the only reason we have gone this far is this type of elitist mindset. I strongly feel as long as I am adhering to Wikipedia policies, I should not be persecuted for my personality.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 00:21, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete I found myself asking the same question as ASO. Go Phightins ! 13:48, 16 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • Delete if YOLO continues the editing pattern of the last couple years. Keep if he decides to become a productive contributor again. (As long as all potential BLP issues are addressed.) We give latitude to productive editors on their userpages. We shouldn't allow someone who shows up once a year to run for arbcom and make a few edits around that time to host silly nonsense. If you want to keep your page, contribute. -- Onorem ♠ Dil 14:43, 16 December 2012 (UTC) reply
  • I am more than willing to come back and edit productively, Onorem. The only reason I left Wikipedia last year was because voter guide writers conspired and canvassed on IRC last year to delete my beloved userpage and launched a baseless sockpuppet investigation against me. There are a lot of NPOV work that I would like to do as I had done in the past. But I simply do not wish to edit under such a restrictive toxic environment where I feel admins with elitist mindsets are treating me like a trashy, inferior mind and somehow determine only User:Ka of Catherine de Burgh type of humor is funny but not my XXL (magazine) Baracka_Flacka_Flames type of humor. I am who I am. I will never sell out or pretend to be one of those pseudo-intellectuals. I feel as long as I am adhering to Wikipedia policies, I should not be persecuted for my personality.
  • Isn't it about time to stick a fork in this turkey? 10 days and counting... Tarc ( talk) 19:02, 18 December 2012 (UTC) reply
    • The subpage that was nominated for deletion looks very different from the subpage right now that Bishonen cleaned up. I made a lot of concessions on this including creating a subpage entitled "userpage proposal" in order to seek community feedbacks and consensus instead of simply recreating it on my userpage as well as giving Bish a free hand in editing the page as she sees fit. I expect a gesture of goodwill from the community to allow me to keep this subpage. Otherwise, it would reflect very poorly on the community and would not help editor retention effort.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 00:21, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
      • Sorry, that just sounds like "I'm going to leave in an immature huff if I don't get to keep my 'joke' page". Look above, the community's view is pretty clear.-- Scott Mac 00:42, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
        • Only a faction of the community view is represented here. In previous instances with significantly more community input Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Certified.Gangsta Wikipedia_talk:User_page/UI_spoofing Wikipedia:Lamest_edit_wars#User:Certified.Gangsta, I was always allowed to keep my userpage as it was. Now, I made a lot of concessions this time around in terms of joke banner, Taiwan vs. China related issues, and girls. I also give Bishonen, a widely respected and established admin, to edit this subpage as she sees fit. I also stopped short of restoring my userpage and only created the subpage as a "proposal" for a userpage that would be deemed acceptable. It was appalling that this gesture of goodwill was nominated for deletion less than an hour. Now that Bish is done deleting stuff, could we just move on and focus on stuff that actually matters? (Such as editing the mainspace?)-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 00:49, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
          • Oh, get over yourself. The fact that even this small fraction of the community has had to waste its time on this unnecessary page is disappointing. If folk have silly joke pages and they cause no distension, no harm done. But the minute they cause concern (valid or not) they should be removed and we get back to doing stuff that matters to the encyclopedia. The correct response from you is not to shout that you've been hard done by, and make "concessions" (concessions to what?) but to remove the redundant page and end the whole affair. There is nothing of value here to make this controversy worthwhile. Now, this will close soon as delete. Learn the lesson and let it be at that.-- Scott Mac 01:19, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
            • Other people have joke pages with no problems. What has been happening here is personal vendetta and pay back for issues that have nothing to do with my userpage. The fact that I am not an admin also does not help. You seem to be saying I should turn a blind eye when I am getting treated unfairly. Like many astute Wikipedians have said here Wikipedia:Miscellany_for_deletion/User:Certified.Gangsta Wikipedia_talk:User_page/UI_spoofing, no one is forcing you to stare at my subpage all the time. You're the one who should get over yourself. This type of arrogant elitist mindset would not help Wikipedia attract more editors of diverse backgrounds.-- YOLO Swag ( talk) 01:35, 19 December 2012 (UTC) reply
The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.


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