- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the discussion was: delete . Note: There's no value in proposing a portal merge unless it's made clear exactly what is to be merged, and how. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 22:25, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Indonesian Provinces and Russian Federal Subjects
Jambi is a province of Indonesia, with a population of 3 million. However, as with many other non-English-speaking areas, en.wp's coverage is thin: the entire tree of
Category:Jambi+subcats contains only 18 non-stub, non-biographical articles, so it does not even meet the risibly low bare minimum of 20 set by the fans of mass-created auto-portals at
WP:WPPORT.
Hopefully some day en.wp's coverage of this region will expand, but as of now there simply aren't enough articles to justify a portal.
This portal is yet another auto-generated drive-by creation of portal-spammer @
The Transhumanist, and it is so badly configured that its selected article list contains only a single page. That could theoretically be fixed, but since there are not enough articles anyway, there is no reason to keep this page in the hope that in far-off some day there may be more articles and the portal may actually be curated. Better to just
WP:TNT it; there is nothing here worth preserving, and this portal-to-one-page is simply a waste of readers' time.
BrownHairedGirl
(talk) • (
contribs)
21:42, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Extended list of bundled pages
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The list of portals has a bunch more. There are 34 in total Provinces of Indonesia: :
Redlinked ones are planned and copied from the list. While they are first order subdivisions of the country, Indonesia is not a federation and the provinces are created for administrative convenience, not because of any historical reasons (compare to countries like Canada, USA, Germany, and Switzerland where most first level subdivisions have a historical identity and significant self governing powers). Many of these provinces have been formed in the last 20 years out of other provinces. Indonesia is better broken into 7 geographic regions which are each somewhat culturally distinct from each other. I've been to some of them and can say travelers will not generally notice they are in this or that province within Kalimantan or Java but that there are cultural differences between those regions, and especially the region of Western New Guinea. These portals are so useless at least some don't even have a map. Legacypac ( talk) 22:23, 16 March 2019 (UTC) All the ones that say "current rollback vandalism" are pages that have never been touched since creation. Given the rate of creation, were these pages even looked at when created?
Russian federal subjects
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Discussion
- Redirect to Jambi or delete per nom and WP:BLOCK User:The_Transhumanist if he creates any more without using an approved Bot. — SmokeyJoe ( talk) 00:55, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete all I've added evidence that these were mass created in contravention of WP:MEATBOT. Assessing these junky portals is taking more time then went into creating them all. Legacypac ( talk) 07:58, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete all Pointless time sink. Johnuniq ( talk) 10:06, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete all. - More evidence that we need a speedy deletion criterion. Are these second-level administrative subdivisions? We have already had India and the United States. Will China or Brazil be next? Robert McClenon ( talk) 15:22, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Comment - No. These are first-level subdivisions. Will Russian oblasts be next? Robert McClenon ( talk) 15:23, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Yes User:Robert McClenon. We don't need portals for the 85 federal subjects of Russia either. Bundling the ones I could find. Legacypac ( talk) 19:57, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Country level portals should be enough.-- Auric talk 11:33, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete please. Fram ( talk) 13:10, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect to broader topics. It's likely that in future we will have enough content for useful portals about at least some of these, and given that portals about major first level subdivisions exist in other parts of the world (e.g. Portal:Ohio, Portal:Manitoba, Portal:South Australia, Portal:Wales, etc) it's quite likely that readers will look for portals on equivalent subdivisions in other parts of the world. Thryduulf ( talk) 15:49, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- Merge what exactly? None of this material is original content it is all available on the articles. Redirects would be deleted because the Country portal would not necessarily mention the names of the 85 federal subjects of Russia for example. Legacypac ( talk) 20:52, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. Entire countries, and major subnational regions of large countries (however you want to view Tatarstan) are sufficiently broad categories of encyclopedic interest to support portals. The notion of deleting this has serious implications for things like Portal:Ontario, Portal:Isle of Man, Portal:Texas, etc. Merge and redirect in some cases. E.g., Portal:Jambi could be upmerged into a Portal:Sumatra built from similar merges, if Sumatra is of sufficient collected interest to support a portal, or to Portal:Indonesia otherwise. Exactly how big/populous a sub-national region needs to be to support a portal is an open question about which we should establish criteria. This mess of a confused and confusing nomination, converted into a mass-nom after the fact, is a great example of why not to be haphazard about this sort of thing. MfD is serious business. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 17:32, 23 March 2019 (UTC); revised 17:43, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
- No one is stopping anyone from developing new criteria. Isle of Mann is not a country or a division of a country. Wales and Manitoba etc are parts of federations and each have an extensive indepemdant history. Legacypac ( talk) 19:02, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Strong Keep - I fail to see the states of Australia or United States portals up for delete? When that happens try again, otherwise they are eminently valid as specific subdivisions that are not even touched in Australia or United States JarrahTree 14:18, 28 March 2019 (UTC)Re-read nomination and the replies for the record no longer wish to be part of the conversation. JarrahTree 22:02, 28 March 2019 (UTC)- Nominator's note. I nominated one page, Portal:Jambi, for the reason set out in the nomination: that there are not enough articles within its scope to make a viable portal. I note that neither of the "keep" !votes addresses that issue.
- I counted the pages using AWB's list-making tool, and have not repeated the exercise for the other portals. Since they have not been scrutinised in the same way, I have no idea whether they might have similar problems, so I am neutral on their deletion. The issue raised by the editor who added them is that they were part of TTH's wave of portalspam. That may or may not be a valid reason for deletion, but it a separate discussion to the issues with Jambi.
- The suggestion to "merge" some portals to another portal is misplaced. Portals do hold not content, so there is absolutely nothing to be merged. If a portal is deleted and someone then creates a broader scope portal which encompasses the scope of the deleted portal, there is no merge process involved. So the choice here is between "keep" or "delete". -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 15:51, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per nom all except Portal:Jakarta, which has a hand-curated old version that should be kept for now and possibly discussed at a separate MfD. — Kusma ( t· c) 20:25, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete agree with nomination, unfortunately these are just extensions of meta-content on poorly sourced articles. SITH (talk) 21:01, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
- The following discussion is an archived debate of the proposed deletion of the miscellaneous page below. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.
The result of the discussion was: delete . Note: There's no value in proposing a portal merge unless it's made clear exactly what is to be merged, and how. Justlettersandnumbers ( talk) 22:25, 31 March 2019 (UTC)
Indonesian Provinces and Russian Federal Subjects
Jambi is a province of Indonesia, with a population of 3 million. However, as with many other non-English-speaking areas, en.wp's coverage is thin: the entire tree of
Category:Jambi+subcats contains only 18 non-stub, non-biographical articles, so it does not even meet the risibly low bare minimum of 20 set by the fans of mass-created auto-portals at
WP:WPPORT.
Hopefully some day en.wp's coverage of this region will expand, but as of now there simply aren't enough articles to justify a portal.
This portal is yet another auto-generated drive-by creation of portal-spammer @
The Transhumanist, and it is so badly configured that its selected article list contains only a single page. That could theoretically be fixed, but since there are not enough articles anyway, there is no reason to keep this page in the hope that in far-off some day there may be more articles and the portal may actually be curated. Better to just
WP:TNT it; there is nothing here worth preserving, and this portal-to-one-page is simply a waste of readers' time.
BrownHairedGirl
(talk) • (
contribs)
21:42, 16 March 2019 (UTC)
Extended list of bundled pages
|
|---|
|
The list of portals has a bunch more. There are 34 in total Provinces of Indonesia: :
Redlinked ones are planned and copied from the list. While they are first order subdivisions of the country, Indonesia is not a federation and the provinces are created for administrative convenience, not because of any historical reasons (compare to countries like Canada, USA, Germany, and Switzerland where most first level subdivisions have a historical identity and significant self governing powers). Many of these provinces have been formed in the last 20 years out of other provinces. Indonesia is better broken into 7 geographic regions which are each somewhat culturally distinct from each other. I've been to some of them and can say travelers will not generally notice they are in this or that province within Kalimantan or Java but that there are cultural differences between those regions, and especially the region of Western New Guinea. These portals are so useless at least some don't even have a map. Legacypac ( talk) 22:23, 16 March 2019 (UTC) All the ones that say "current rollback vandalism" are pages that have never been touched since creation. Given the rate of creation, were these pages even looked at when created?
Russian federal subjects
|
Discussion
- Redirect to Jambi or delete per nom and WP:BLOCK User:The_Transhumanist if he creates any more without using an approved Bot. — SmokeyJoe ( talk) 00:55, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete all I've added evidence that these were mass created in contravention of WP:MEATBOT. Assessing these junky portals is taking more time then went into creating them all. Legacypac ( talk) 07:58, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete all Pointless time sink. Johnuniq ( talk) 10:06, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete all. - More evidence that we need a speedy deletion criterion. Are these second-level administrative subdivisions? We have already had India and the United States. Will China or Brazil be next? Robert McClenon ( talk) 15:22, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Comment - No. These are first-level subdivisions. Will Russian oblasts be next? Robert McClenon ( talk) 15:23, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Yes User:Robert McClenon. We don't need portals for the 85 federal subjects of Russia either. Bundling the ones I could find. Legacypac ( talk) 19:57, 17 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete Country level portals should be enough.-- Auric talk 11:33, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete please. Fram ( talk) 13:10, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- Merge and redirect to broader topics. It's likely that in future we will have enough content for useful portals about at least some of these, and given that portals about major first level subdivisions exist in other parts of the world (e.g. Portal:Ohio, Portal:Manitoba, Portal:South Australia, Portal:Wales, etc) it's quite likely that readers will look for portals on equivalent subdivisions in other parts of the world. Thryduulf ( talk) 15:49, 18 March 2019 (UTC)
- Merge what exactly? None of this material is original content it is all available on the articles. Redirects would be deleted because the Country portal would not necessarily mention the names of the 85 federal subjects of Russia for example. Legacypac ( talk) 20:52, 22 March 2019 (UTC)
- Keep. Entire countries, and major subnational regions of large countries (however you want to view Tatarstan) are sufficiently broad categories of encyclopedic interest to support portals. The notion of deleting this has serious implications for things like Portal:Ontario, Portal:Isle of Man, Portal:Texas, etc. Merge and redirect in some cases. E.g., Portal:Jambi could be upmerged into a Portal:Sumatra built from similar merges, if Sumatra is of sufficient collected interest to support a portal, or to Portal:Indonesia otherwise. Exactly how big/populous a sub-national region needs to be to support a portal is an open question about which we should establish criteria. This mess of a confused and confusing nomination, converted into a mass-nom after the fact, is a great example of why not to be haphazard about this sort of thing. MfD is serious business. — SMcCandlish ☏ ¢ 😼 17:32, 23 March 2019 (UTC); revised 17:43, 23 March 2019 (UTC)
- No one is stopping anyone from developing new criteria. Isle of Mann is not a country or a division of a country. Wales and Manitoba etc are parts of federations and each have an extensive indepemdant history. Legacypac ( talk) 19:02, 27 March 2019 (UTC)
Strong Keep - I fail to see the states of Australia or United States portals up for delete? When that happens try again, otherwise they are eminently valid as specific subdivisions that are not even touched in Australia or United States JarrahTree 14:18, 28 March 2019 (UTC)Re-read nomination and the replies for the record no longer wish to be part of the conversation. JarrahTree 22:02, 28 March 2019 (UTC)- Nominator's note. I nominated one page, Portal:Jambi, for the reason set out in the nomination: that there are not enough articles within its scope to make a viable portal. I note that neither of the "keep" !votes addresses that issue.
- I counted the pages using AWB's list-making tool, and have not repeated the exercise for the other portals. Since they have not been scrutinised in the same way, I have no idea whether they might have similar problems, so I am neutral on their deletion. The issue raised by the editor who added them is that they were part of TTH's wave of portalspam. That may or may not be a valid reason for deletion, but it a separate discussion to the issues with Jambi.
- The suggestion to "merge" some portals to another portal is misplaced. Portals do hold not content, so there is absolutely nothing to be merged. If a portal is deleted and someone then creates a broader scope portal which encompasses the scope of the deleted portal, there is no merge process involved. So the choice here is between "keep" or "delete". -- BrownHairedGirl (talk) • ( contribs) 15:51, 28 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete per nom all except Portal:Jakarta, which has a hand-curated old version that should be kept for now and possibly discussed at a separate MfD. — Kusma ( t· c) 20:25, 29 March 2019 (UTC)
- Delete agree with nomination, unfortunately these are just extensions of meta-content on poorly sourced articles. SITH (talk) 21:01, 30 March 2019 (UTC)
- The above discussion is preserved as an archive of the debate. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page (such as the page's talk page or in a deletion review). No further edits should be made to this page.