Wikipedia Mediation Cabal | |
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Article | Kol Yaakov Torah Center |
Status | closed |
Request date | Unknown |
Requesting party | Yodamace1 10:11, 18 May 2007 (UTC) |
Parties involved | User:Talmudscholar, User:Chocolatepizza, Yodamace1 |
Mediator(s) | The Rhymesmith |
Comment | Needs a new volunteer. |
Please observe Wikipedia:Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Wikipedia talk:Mediation Cabal.
User:Talmudscholar, User:Chocolatepizza, Yodamace1
User:Chocolatepizza originally informed me that Talmudscholar had made some "horrible untrue" edits on the Kol Yaakov Torah Center article and I then looked into his record, finding he had made similarly minded edits on the Ohr Somayach, Monsey article. He later made another article in the same vein, Haredi Criticism ( User:DLand and I placed tags on Haredi Criticism for speedy deletion). I responded by editing the articles to be what I felt was NPOV and cutting out the OR (although now I notice that they read like advertisements and this too needs to be changed) and sent Talmudscholar warnings. He then emailed me and we had a not-too-pleasant conversation about his edits. I asked him permission to post the conversation on the Wiki, but he did not acquiesce and I respect that right. -- Yodamace1 10:13, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
It seems that he has stopped posting his edits for now, but I feel that our relationship is scarred because of it and I would prefer that he understand that while I overreacted with my aggressive warnings, what he did was against Wiki policy and that my edits were not efforts to censor his contributions, but make the articles conform to the Wikirules. -- Yodamace1 10:13, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, the main user who the issue was raised against has responded to his awareness regarding policy. I think this comes down to a simple misunderstanding of how to be bold within the context of various WP policies including neutral point of view, verifiability and no original research. No specific ideas as to what the parties wish to achieve has been included within this MedCab request. Do the parties involved agree that everyone is now better informed of the issues relating to these edits and there is no further need to continue this MedCab request? Thewinchester (talk) 17:54, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I didn't fully understand, am currently looking for sources that meet the wikipolicy. Talmudscholar 15:49, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a lot of criticism of the frum yeshivas, and a few good things too. I didn't feel my email exchange with yodamace was hostile, I was trying to ascertain 1) how to find the talk pages 2) what was the exact nature of why he was deleting valuable pertinent information.
I brought up the fact that Newsweek said Wal-Mart Criticism was put into a different page than Wal-Mart to appease corporate PR flacks and because there was so much information on both pages, trying to see if that would be an acceptable approach, so I found the old deleted information and moved it into a charedi criticism page, which the Orthodox mafia also deleted.
It is common knowlege in Orthodox Jewish circles that hagiography is common and community members are strictly indoctrinated against ever airing the truth about abusiveness, emphasis on fundraising at any cost and several other harmful aspects I know many expereinced at Kol Yaakov Torah Center and also at Ohr Somayach Monsey.
I am not sure how well documented a school with less than 25 students would be that I could find tons of sources to report in wikipedia. Most everyone in the Orthodox world is very clear that of course the institutions are starved for cash and give much focus on people who can afford to support the institutions. But many experiences are varried and for some it is very different than for others. In addition I found it strange how everyone at some of the shuls was a doctor or a lawyer or owned a successful business until I found out how they are nice to those types of wealthy people, but other people are discouraged from relocating or participating with increasing levels of discouragement, starting with a mild no, moving up to verbal abuse, hostility, anger, shunning, and even declaring people unfit to be members of a jewish community and forbidding community members from hiring them or talking to them etc.
Of course the entries read like advertisements since they are horribly one-sided. But Yodamace won't allow the wiki to read how they make incredibel promises and disappoint thousands so they can bring in a few financially advantaged donors alone. The question is where to post this. There are email groups, blogs and some books and studies.
Talmudscholar 04:01, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Does this *really* need a mediation case?! Seems quite exaggerated. This was taken to mediation much too soon, judging by what I am reading now. -- Rabbeinu 08:09, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Yodamace1: Ok, no problem. So what is this case about now? Why are we all still here? IZAK 02:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
It appears that the issue has been resolved. Is there any further need for mediation that anyone can think of, or shall this be closed?
The Rhymesmith 07:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Closing. The Rhymesmith 09:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC)
Wikipedia Mediation Cabal | |
---|---|
![]() | |
Article | Kol Yaakov Torah Center |
Status | closed |
Request date | Unknown |
Requesting party | Yodamace1 10:11, 18 May 2007 (UTC) |
Parties involved | User:Talmudscholar, User:Chocolatepizza, Yodamace1 |
Mediator(s) | The Rhymesmith |
Comment | Needs a new volunteer. |
Please observe Wikipedia:Etiquette and Talk Page Etiquette in disputes. If you submit complaints or insults your edits are likely to be removed by the mediator, any other refactoring of the mediation case by anybody but the mediator is likely to be reverted. If you are not satisfied with the mediation procedure please submit your complaints to Wikipedia talk:Mediation Cabal.
User:Talmudscholar, User:Chocolatepizza, Yodamace1
User:Chocolatepizza originally informed me that Talmudscholar had made some "horrible untrue" edits on the Kol Yaakov Torah Center article and I then looked into his record, finding he had made similarly minded edits on the Ohr Somayach, Monsey article. He later made another article in the same vein, Haredi Criticism ( User:DLand and I placed tags on Haredi Criticism for speedy deletion). I responded by editing the articles to be what I felt was NPOV and cutting out the OR (although now I notice that they read like advertisements and this too needs to be changed) and sent Talmudscholar warnings. He then emailed me and we had a not-too-pleasant conversation about his edits. I asked him permission to post the conversation on the Wiki, but he did not acquiesce and I respect that right. -- Yodamace1 10:13, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
It seems that he has stopped posting his edits for now, but I feel that our relationship is scarred because of it and I would prefer that he understand that while I overreacted with my aggressive warnings, what he did was against Wiki policy and that my edits were not efforts to censor his contributions, but make the articles conform to the Wikirules. -- Yodamace1 10:13, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
Ok, the main user who the issue was raised against has responded to his awareness regarding policy. I think this comes down to a simple misunderstanding of how to be bold within the context of various WP policies including neutral point of view, verifiability and no original research. No specific ideas as to what the parties wish to achieve has been included within this MedCab request. Do the parties involved agree that everyone is now better informed of the issues relating to these edits and there is no further need to continue this MedCab request? Thewinchester (talk) 17:54, 19 May 2007 (UTC)
I didn't fully understand, am currently looking for sources that meet the wikipolicy. Talmudscholar 15:49, 18 May 2007 (UTC)
There is a lot of criticism of the frum yeshivas, and a few good things too. I didn't feel my email exchange with yodamace was hostile, I was trying to ascertain 1) how to find the talk pages 2) what was the exact nature of why he was deleting valuable pertinent information.
I brought up the fact that Newsweek said Wal-Mart Criticism was put into a different page than Wal-Mart to appease corporate PR flacks and because there was so much information on both pages, trying to see if that would be an acceptable approach, so I found the old deleted information and moved it into a charedi criticism page, which the Orthodox mafia also deleted.
It is common knowlege in Orthodox Jewish circles that hagiography is common and community members are strictly indoctrinated against ever airing the truth about abusiveness, emphasis on fundraising at any cost and several other harmful aspects I know many expereinced at Kol Yaakov Torah Center and also at Ohr Somayach Monsey.
I am not sure how well documented a school with less than 25 students would be that I could find tons of sources to report in wikipedia. Most everyone in the Orthodox world is very clear that of course the institutions are starved for cash and give much focus on people who can afford to support the institutions. But many experiences are varried and for some it is very different than for others. In addition I found it strange how everyone at some of the shuls was a doctor or a lawyer or owned a successful business until I found out how they are nice to those types of wealthy people, but other people are discouraged from relocating or participating with increasing levels of discouragement, starting with a mild no, moving up to verbal abuse, hostility, anger, shunning, and even declaring people unfit to be members of a jewish community and forbidding community members from hiring them or talking to them etc.
Of course the entries read like advertisements since they are horribly one-sided. But Yodamace won't allow the wiki to read how they make incredibel promises and disappoint thousands so they can bring in a few financially advantaged donors alone. The question is where to post this. There are email groups, blogs and some books and studies.
Talmudscholar 04:01, 21 May 2007 (UTC)
Does this *really* need a mediation case?! Seems quite exaggerated. This was taken to mediation much too soon, judging by what I am reading now. -- Rabbeinu 08:09, 1 June 2007 (UTC)
Yodamace1: Ok, no problem. So what is this case about now? Why are we all still here? IZAK 02:31, 4 June 2007 (UTC)
It appears that the issue has been resolved. Is there any further need for mediation that anyone can think of, or shall this be closed?
The Rhymesmith 07:31, 17 July 2007 (UTC)
Closing. The Rhymesmith 09:46, 25 July 2007 (UTC)