What do you want translated? Replacing "Russland" by "Russia" would be easy. But changing the transliteration of all the placenames from German to English really doesn't seem worth the bother.
Maproom (
talk)
08:46, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
@
Maproom: I think it's worthwhile to change the transliterations, as it is not obvious to English speakers that e.g. "w" is going to be "v". Additionally, there is more German text than just "Russland". I can provide all the English transliterations etc if that would make it easier for you. —
Μετάknowledgediscuss/
deeds07:54, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
Map of the Afsharid Empire at its greatest extent (1741-1743)
Hi. Please change "Safavid Empire" (down left on the image) into "Afsharid Empire", and change the date "1501-1736 (AD)" into "1736-1796" (AD)". Thanks. --
LouisAragon (
talk)
14:49, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
A map which I could modify using Microsoft Paint for all districts: borders are not very clear in that map, so I can't color all the area of each district in an accurate way (
flood fill). For example, a map as
this, where borders are "well defined". --
151 cp (
talk)
02:22, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
What happens when you try to fill districts? I just downloaded it, opened it in Paint, and colored several random districts with random colors; they all colored just as expected. I'm running Windows 10 with its appropriate edition of Paint.
Nyttend (
talk)
03:10, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
If your software simply won't fill properly, feel free to give me a diagram matching districts and names, and I'll be willing to make and upload the 90 maps; it won't be hard for me. Probably the easiest option would be for you to download the map, put a number on each district, and upload the result, and then put it in a userspace page with a chart saying what number is what district.
Nyttend (
talk)
03:21, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
The map is very complex. Several maps needs to be created from this. One with all the names and captions and one blank map without names. Need to be created in SVG. There two maps in inset. They needs to be created separately as well as with the main map (as in the image). --
Nizil (
talk)
05:50, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
Graphist opinion(s)
@
Nizil Shah: I could help you with this but first I have two questions;
Will you be available to help me and give me feedback during this work, because I zero knowledge of this?
Is the gif-file you give as a source free to use as source?
@
Goran tek-en:, thank you for your help. I will be there to answer your queries almost everyday and I have a fair knowledge of basic history of
Gujarat state of India, the region depicted in the map. The original source of gif-file is unknown and the link is from blog:
https://revisitingindia.com/2013/08/28/accession-of-junagadh-farce-of-history/ As far as I know, creating a totally new map based on information provided by other maps would not violate copyright. I don't think that it is copyleft/free licensed map (else I had uploaded it on Commons). I have already requested multiple maps (SVG with names+colors, blank SVG, two maps from inset with names+colors, two blank maps from inset) based on that gif map. As much as I can verify (from lot of other maps), the map is accurate. Thank you again.--
Nizil (
talk)
04:34, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Request taken by
Goran tek-en (
talk)
13:33, 14 August 2017 (UTC).
As you are requesting several maps we have to divide this into different steps for me to manage it. Lets start with the blank map.
India Gujarat location map (since 2013) according to WM commons map convention
Whole Gujarat with all the princely states should be covered in blank map (all things in image in link except inset small maps). It should cover all boundaries and labels in link. All four map should have colour of ocean (Arabian Sea).--
Nizil (
talk)
14:10, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: I hope you don't think I ask/talk to much but this blank_base map is very important for the continued work. I don't know how much you know about working on maps in a svg program. One builds it up with many different layers that you later on can decide to make visible or not. So the blank_base map should include as much as possible of all the fixed information, borders, areas, rivers etc.
In such a map (blank_base) I would like to stick to the standards that we use for a location map, in that way it's easier for me to understand which information I have in that map. A white map is of no use for me as a map maker.
Now
I have a draft for you to look at. This is based on the location map since 2013. But to me, that can not be correct in regards to the country, divisions (states), and subdivisions?
Do you want me to draw in all of the different colored areas in the big map from the gif-file instead?
If so, even the smallest colored areas?
If this is what you want I have to tell you that I will not be able to do this exactly as the two different maps are not exactly the same. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
16:41, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:. I don't know how SVG images are created so pardon me.
I think it should have following layers: 1. Base layer which had coastal border of Gujarat, Sea etc geographical non changing information. 2. a layer with borders of all princely states in gif-file (including smallest one). [this is blank image which i said. So should be uploaded.] 3. a layer with names and titles of each princely states. [image with labels]
Another way I like to have is : 1.same as above 2. all princely states marked by different colors (as in gif-file) but without labels [colored image without label] 3. all princely states with colors and with labels. label layer can be copied from above image. [coloured image with label]
I think in black map you posted as draft do not need modern district borders etc. 2013 map is just for coastal border etc. Making maps of each princely state is not my demand. I want one map with all princely states like in gif-file but with/without colors and with/without label (4 versions). Hope this clarifies.--
Nizil (
talk)
12:37, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
I can understand that its very complex and huge map. Take your time, no hurry. If you have any questions or suggestions, please feel free to ask. I will be happy to answer. Thank you again for taking up this big map. :) -
Nizil (
talk)
18:56, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: If you
look at this image you can see some red encircled areas. Within them there are either black or yellow dots. You can find those on several places of the map, different colors.
Goran tek-en. Ignore them as places/small areas. Numbers marks the area/states associated with specific THANA (a group of states under one jurisdiction). Thana name is written near these states. So mark them with points or dots, when you label, to identify that these are under one Thana. My earlier interpretation was wrong but when I checked whole map, I understood. -
Nizil (
talk)
21:03, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah:Now there is a draft for you to look at.
As this map is very complicated I probably has made several errors or misunderstandings. So check everything and give me feedback, thanks. This map will be used for all the others so it has to be right before we continue. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
17:40, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:. Great work. I am very impressed by your map. You have done an exceptional job in tracing all the border. I have checked and all borders seem OK to me. I would like to point out two things: 1. How those "see enlargement"s will be handled? Will it be incorporated in the main map or separate boxes of "enlargement" will be drawn? 2. The areas in
Cutch State,
Morvi State and
Nawanagar State some border-like lines which is actually used to mark marsh land of
Rann of Kutch. This lines do not represent boders between states but border of marsh land. See maps in
Great Rann of Kutch and
Little Rann of Kutch which are two parts of
Rann of Kutch for clarification. See
File:Ecoregion IM0901.svg and
Gulf of Kutch too. So how to mark them in map? Should these lines marking these salt marsh lands removed and make them part of the state? (It is done in
File:India Gujarat location map.svg where, in
Kutch district, the salt marsh lands are not marked.) Or mark them in different way? What Wikipedia's Map conventions say about it? Everything else seem OK and good to go. . Regards,--
Nizil (
talk)
12:30, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: The draft you could see is of the main centre map in the gif file, see it as a base map.
Now you have to tell me map by map, step by step what you want for different maps, but only one at the time.
At this point I don't know which of the different insets you want or in which map. If you want them in the same map as the bigger on (base) I will put them there or we can make separete maps and in that case it's easier to make them large if necessary.
In this new draft (png version of the svg) I have marked the marsh (as I understand it) in a way so that the underlying color of the state will be visible thru the pattern. This is a pattern that is used to mark out marsh/wetlands. If they should be marked out (like this or in any other way) is mostly up to if you find them necessary/interesting for your map, it's up to your purpose of the maps. Give me feedback. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
21:36, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:. The marshlands are marked OK. Just note that the northwest-most part of Cutch adjoining the border and sea is also marsh land so make it marshland too. Marking these marshland it important only because we can point that it is non-habitable land area and they are not sea. Please remove that international border between India and Pakistan and labels of India/Pakistan as Pakistan came into existence only after 1947 after
partition of India and today's India formed after
political integration of India after 1947. And please upload this blank base SVG and PNG maps too on Commons too.
I was asking: How those "see enlargement" of Pandu Mewas or Sankheda Mewas or Jetpur States etc will be handled?
Map 1: Let start with
Kaira Agency map (easiest). Create separate Kaira Agency map with colour marking the Agency. The Kaira Agency is marked in inset map of OLD AGENCIES in inset map. See article on
Kaira Agency too which had only one state,
Cambay State. Will this maps created in SVG or PNG?--
Nizil (
talk)
06:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: All maps I create like this is made as svg. Then at commons png versions are created automatically.
Here is a new draft and in this I have added a "world map" so that one knows which area the map covers. For you it's obvious but not for most people, also a small legend. Tell me if you want them or not?
Map 1: Let start with
Kaira Agency map (easiest). Create separate Kaira Agency map with colour marking the Agency. The Kaira Agency is marked in inset map of OLD AGENCIES in inset map. See article on
Kaira Agency too which had only one state,
Cambay State. Will this maps created in SVG or PNG?--
Nizil (
talk)
06:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
The two articles you have linked to show the same article and that area Cambay state, is not something I can find in OLD AGENCIES and then within area KAIRA AGENCY.
I'm sorry but I don't understand which area you mean.
Is it the area I have drawn with blue around?
I'm also confused because in the big map the Kaira agency is called Broach and Panch Mahals. Is it different years or what?
Just as a discussion point: Would it be good for you if we had one map with all the insets together. In such a map one could have a smaller version of the big map and mark out the different insets on, like the "world map" I added to the latest draft? --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
21:40, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
Kaira Agency is dark green area in inset map, just above the area you marked in
[1]. Map in
Cambay State=
Kaira Agency is that area. Cambay is marked in large map too .What will you do about labels? We can have two maps of Kaira Agency marked with some colour; with labels and without labels.
Name: Cambay State Kaira Agency of British India 1817-1937.svg
Description:
Cambay State, the only state in
Kaira Agency (1817-1937) of
British India (Linking Wikipedia article in description is easiest way to describe what is in map.)
I am OK with World Map or Map of South Asia in inset if
Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps/Conventions says so. One minor point, corners of boxes are rounded but, according to map conventions, they should be square. For legend, the SVG toolbox on convention page would be helpful, I guess. There is no need of border too, I think.
For inset maps: I think we should create multiple separate maps instead of having one map with all small maps as insets. It will increase usability of each map as well as avoid too much info in one map. We can use multiple map images in one article so there is no need to have all maps in one image.
Note:Please also upload blank map you have created so far without any labels or legend. It will be also helpful in discussion to us as I can point out area etc in the map. One more question: Can borders of image be defined as in
File:India Gujarat location map.svg so this image can also be used as location map image? (I don't know the technicality behind it.--
Nizil (
talk)
05:36, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: Please ping me when you write because the watch function doesn't work all the time, thanks.
Note: The information I asked for uploading was for the blank file, that is what I need to be able to upload it.
I can't read anywhere that the borders has to be solid in a location map but if you want I will make a version like that. The hardest is to get the coordinates correct as this map is made from a map which doesn't hold the same proportions and I have no idea what projection that is used. But we can try if you need it.
Yes it's true that sharp corners is recommended. This is a convention and not a law or rule written in stone. The maps I create have rounded corners as to me this is nicer as a graphic object and all together. So if you don't have any really heavy arguments I will stick to that.
In Kaira Agency Map: Label Cambay State only, it has only one state. In future, we will need to label multiple states in Agency Maps which have many states. --
Nizil (
talk)
13:38, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
I have made two different drafts, one with insets to show the position of the area and one without (they can be cut harder/made a little smaller). I don't exactly know how you will use the map so it's up to you but remember that most people do not have your knowledge.
@
Goran tek-en:. Great. Blank SVG is great. Can you also upload one copy of it without inset world map? In Kaira Agency Map: Maps in inset look more understandable. Keep it. Can you also add a Kaira Agency marked in whole Gujarat Map (as one you have used as a inset map?) I am asking for alternative Maps to see how it looks. Finally, usable maps are here. Lots of thanks. :)--
Nizil (
talk)
19:49, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
I think it would be good if the next inset map we will do can be one with several agencies and with complex labels. This is because then I will find out if we have to change how we show things because of that and as this is one project it's important that we have some kind of standard how to show things, as far as we can.
Name: Kaira Agency Cambay State in Gujarat during British India.svg, description: Locatiom of Kaira Agency (Cambay State) in Gujarat during British India
Category: British Agencies in India -
Nizil (
talk)
19:01, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:. My next suggestion is to take up two
Rewa Kantha Agency maps. See article and gif-map (inset OLD AGENCIES map and Large main map). I have made two maps in paintbrush to give you an idea what I want. One RK Agency (marked in red) Map and one RK Agency map with all states marked in different colours and labels. Please tell how to mark Mewas enlargements. Label size, font, colours, position of insets etc should be decided by you. I have just made it poorly in paintbrush. Hope this helps.--
Nizil (
talk)
05:49, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
There are to pink encircled areas that I'm not sure about.
Yes the job you have done in paintbrush is very helpful for me, thanks.
I don't understand what you mean by "a new layer of labels should be added in SVG". I put information in different layers as I need but that is not something you have to worry about, just tell me what you want. Right now I can't see what usage we have for the georeference, to me that is used when you want to put out different cities and other stuff with a "tool" here. But I'm glad you showed me the tool, it's very helpful for me, thanks. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
19:15, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:,
File:Rewa Kantha Agency discussion 2.png is created for answers. I had forgotten to mark some areas in former images so corrected and this map is at higher resolution. I have colored princely states with different colors as in gif-map. I need one such multi-colored image too with all labels/names (as in main gif-map). Still one question remains: How Pandu Mewas and Sankheda Mewas will be handled?--
Nizil (
talk)
05:02, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm still working on this that I show you as a draft. I haven't started with the other one so I can't answer your questions yet. First we have to get this one colored correct before I move on to the next. This is very complex maps and I have have no knowledge, so one at the time. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
15:55, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:, Rewa K map looks all OK. upload it. Name: Rewa Kantha Agency Gujarat during British India 1811-1937.svg Description: Rewa Kantha Agency (1811-1937) in Gujarat during British India Category: as above map.--
Nizil (
talk)
05:07, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah:This is as a discussion draft (not a complete draft). The colors a picked from a palette which should work for most people with color vision variations. It's almost impossible to make this many colors work for everyone, then you have to add patterns and that would make a picture like this even harder to read. This is a suggestion of the labels. They have to be as big so one can view them but also point to the different areas. This makes sense to me as the names has the same colors as the areas. Is this OK or should I do something else? --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
15:08, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:, I am OK with whatever colours you choose. Regarding labels, I think the proposed approach will not work for more complex future maps where number of states will be very large. So I think we should create separate "Legend" for labels. Or any other ways or suggestion? Or simply labelling the States with names as in gif-map?--
Nizil (
talk)
06:54, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: Sorry my mistake, I didn't give you the whole idea.
Draft to check. My idea is to have the labels in a kind of two steps variation. To the right is step 1 (names) when that can be used. For more complex maps I use step 2 (numbers), to the left. Is that OK with you? --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
16:08, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:, I am OK with your idea. Is there any way to make yellow (Pandu Mewas) and light green (Rajpipla) names more visible as it is difficult to read those names due to light color? --
Nizil (
talk)
13:09, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:. Great. Its OK. Upload it. Name:Rewa Kantha Agency with all Princely States Gujarat during British India 1811-1937 with labels.svg category and description as above. -
Nizil (
talk)
19:05, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: Now I have three drafts for you to check. I did see some differences between your maps and the gif so you have to check everything, as always.
@
Goran tek-en:, You have done great. Note that in all three maps: an enclave of Dharampur State in Nagar Haveli (Portuguese) region is not colored. (I had missed that too and now have corrected it
File:Surat Agency Gujarat during British India 1880-1933.png). Please color it. Except that Map 1 and 2 are ready to go. In Map 3, can we make inset map of The Dangs+labels on right instead of left as it will not have to cross over other states? It is also difficult to understand and follow numbering in inset map. Can we just mark numbers on states instead of dialogue-bubbles as in inset map of Dangs in gif-map? Thanks again.--
Nizil (
talk)
05:15, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
Forgotten: Name: Name:Rewa Kantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1811-1937/Description: Rewa Kantha Agency during British India (1811-1937)
1: Name: Surat Agency in Gujarat during British India 1880-1933/Des: Surat Agency (1880-1933) during British India
2: Name: Surat Agency with all princely states British India 1880-1933/Des: Surat Agency (1880-1933) during British India with all princely states under the agency
3: Name: Surat Agency with all princely states with labels British India 1880-1933/Des: Surat Agency (1880-1933) during British India with all princely states under the agency labelled
Category for all: Maps of Agencies of British India, Maps of princely states of India
@
Goran tek-en:. Name:Rewa Kantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1811-1937 / Description: Rewa Kantha Agency during British India (1811-1937) / Category: Maps of Agencies of British India, Maps of princely states of India. --
Nizil (
talk)
04:56, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:. Please check all disputed lands maked with d in gif-image. In your image, sometimes disputed lands are marked red (a disputed land between Idar and Danta) and sometimes not (for example a strip of land above Lunavada in most east of Idar). I think we should colour them some light red shade as they are part of agency but disputed between two states. You can choose different color too. Except this everything looks OK and good to go.--
Nizil (
talk)
05:14, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah:4_1_Mahi_Kantha disputed dashed. I followed your painted image. I have now tried to follow the gif but it's really hard for me to understand all the different colors and stuff with out knowledge. If you could do a new colored version with ONLY all the disputed areas colored it would help me a lot, thanks. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
18:11, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Goran tek-en,1 and 2 are good to go...except a small uncertain village problem listed below in last line. Name: File:Mahi Kantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1820-1933.svg for 1 and Mahi Kantha Agency during British India with inset maps 1820-1933.svg for 2. Categories: Maps of Agencies of British India, Maps of princely states of India
For 3: There are some problems. Several labels are missing and in Thanas and independent villages within are not marked. Uncertain villages/states are not marked. I know that the map I had posted and gif-map both are confusing. so I have created this new map similar to your mapping style. I think instead of speech bubbles to mark numbers, directly placing them would be more cleaner. And there is no need to arrange names in A-Z. All Thana (group of villages under one jurisdiction) are marked in pink. Sometimes several numbers are placed in one area because villages are so small to mark individually within a Thana like in Katosan Thana. Just copy the way I have created new image and its done I guess: See
File:Mahi_Kantha_Agency_during_British_India_1820-1933_with_States_and_Thanas2.png. I have not marked disputed and unknown places in map. Correction in uncertain: Regarding W (Warodra) in Bawishi Thana and N (Nirnali) in Vatrak Kantha Thana, this two villages are uncertain while Thanas are known and certain. So change their colors to red instead of marked as uncertain and draw a little dot within them and mark them as uncertain village W and N. See my map. Regards.--
Nizil (
talk)
13:30, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
I haven't changed for W N yet because I'm not sure about the coloring. You wrote I should color them red, do they belong to Vijaynagar or any other part that is colored all ready, or should they have new colors each, or one together? --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
20:08, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
W and N are uncertain villages which are marked by W and N. But the Thana, in which they are, are known. So instead of coloring those Thanas uncertain (green) is wrong and they should be colored normally (red in map 1 and 2). They should be colored pink like we have done with all other Thanas. so simply colour W and N red in map 1 and 2. And pink in map 3. And its done. :) --
Nizil (
talk)
05:53, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
Names: 1: Mahi Kantha Agency during British India 1820-1933.svg; 2: Mahi Kantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1820-1933.svg; 3: Mahi Kantha Agency during British India 1820-1933 with States and Thanas.svg
Maps showing location within Gujarat (like
This): 5: Thana Agency Jawhar State in Gujarat during British India.png, 6: Nasik Agency Surgana State in Gujarat during British India.png
Agency Maps(like
This): 5: Thana Agency Jawhar State during British India.png, 6: Nasik Agency Surgana State during British India.png
Categories: Maps of Agencies of British India, Maps of princely states of India
@
Goran tek-en:, all three are OK. Names: 1:Palanpur Banaskantha Agency during British India 1819-1933.svg , 2:Palanpur Banaskantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1819-1933.svg and 3:Palanpur Banaskantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1819-1933 with States and Thanas.svg. Categories: Maps of Agencies of British India, Maps of princely states of India. I am on vacation but still keep an eye on pending works. :)-
Nizil (
talk)
05:51, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
Information from: [https://revisitingindia.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/1947guje.gif Information image] but now it seems as this website is on a blacklist so I can't put out that info. Should I write something else?
I don't no why that link is blocked. You can link image posted by me as a source of info for now. Will sort out what to do.
I just saw that I lost a "3" at the end of this files name Palanpur Banaskantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1819-193.svg, sorry for that, can you ask for a change of name, I will change in the description. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
15:24, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
This way based on ABCD, four maps of each Agency marked with single colour should be created. In addition, one (most important) image of each Agency with all princely states marked in different colours should be created. So All agencies will have 5 maps.
Note: Agencies are merged/organised over the years according to Succession chart above. So subsequent agency images can be created by merging these agency maps.
Gujarat by years
Four images (before 1924, 1924-1933, 1933-1943, 1943-1947) can be created by merging above mentioned agency maps.
Princely (e)state-wise maps
Earch princely (e)state (around 250 total) should have its own location map as in
c:Category:Locator maps of districts of Gujarat. Princely State maps should have with label and without label maps from AB or CD. But its large task. It can be done in reverse by creating state maps first, then merging them in agency maps and later merging agency in years map by merging agency maps.
What do you want translated? Replacing "Russland" by "Russia" would be easy. But changing the transliteration of all the placenames from German to English really doesn't seem worth the bother.
Maproom (
talk)
08:46, 3 October 2017 (UTC)
@
Maproom: I think it's worthwhile to change the transliterations, as it is not obvious to English speakers that e.g. "w" is going to be "v". Additionally, there is more German text than just "Russland". I can provide all the English transliterations etc if that would make it easier for you. —
Μετάknowledgediscuss/
deeds07:54, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
Map of the Afsharid Empire at its greatest extent (1741-1743)
Hi. Please change "Safavid Empire" (down left on the image) into "Afsharid Empire", and change the date "1501-1736 (AD)" into "1736-1796" (AD)". Thanks. --
LouisAragon (
talk)
14:49, 28 November 2017 (UTC)
A map which I could modify using Microsoft Paint for all districts: borders are not very clear in that map, so I can't color all the area of each district in an accurate way (
flood fill). For example, a map as
this, where borders are "well defined". --
151 cp (
talk)
02:22, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
What happens when you try to fill districts? I just downloaded it, opened it in Paint, and colored several random districts with random colors; they all colored just as expected. I'm running Windows 10 with its appropriate edition of Paint.
Nyttend (
talk)
03:10, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
If your software simply won't fill properly, feel free to give me a diagram matching districts and names, and I'll be willing to make and upload the 90 maps; it won't be hard for me. Probably the easiest option would be for you to download the map, put a number on each district, and upload the result, and then put it in a userspace page with a chart saying what number is what district.
Nyttend (
talk)
03:21, 1 January 2018 (UTC)
The map is very complex. Several maps needs to be created from this. One with all the names and captions and one blank map without names. Need to be created in SVG. There two maps in inset. They needs to be created separately as well as with the main map (as in the image). --
Nizil (
talk)
05:50, 31 July 2017 (UTC)
Graphist opinion(s)
@
Nizil Shah: I could help you with this but first I have two questions;
Will you be available to help me and give me feedback during this work, because I zero knowledge of this?
Is the gif-file you give as a source free to use as source?
@
Goran tek-en:, thank you for your help. I will be there to answer your queries almost everyday and I have a fair knowledge of basic history of
Gujarat state of India, the region depicted in the map. The original source of gif-file is unknown and the link is from blog:
https://revisitingindia.com/2013/08/28/accession-of-junagadh-farce-of-history/ As far as I know, creating a totally new map based on information provided by other maps would not violate copyright. I don't think that it is copyleft/free licensed map (else I had uploaded it on Commons). I have already requested multiple maps (SVG with names+colors, blank SVG, two maps from inset with names+colors, two blank maps from inset) based on that gif map. As much as I can verify (from lot of other maps), the map is accurate. Thank you again.--
Nizil (
talk)
04:34, 14 August 2017 (UTC)
Request taken by
Goran tek-en (
talk)
13:33, 14 August 2017 (UTC).
As you are requesting several maps we have to divide this into different steps for me to manage it. Lets start with the blank map.
India Gujarat location map (since 2013) according to WM commons map convention
Whole Gujarat with all the princely states should be covered in blank map (all things in image in link except inset small maps). It should cover all boundaries and labels in link. All four map should have colour of ocean (Arabian Sea).--
Nizil (
talk)
14:10, 15 August 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: I hope you don't think I ask/talk to much but this blank_base map is very important for the continued work. I don't know how much you know about working on maps in a svg program. One builds it up with many different layers that you later on can decide to make visible or not. So the blank_base map should include as much as possible of all the fixed information, borders, areas, rivers etc.
In such a map (blank_base) I would like to stick to the standards that we use for a location map, in that way it's easier for me to understand which information I have in that map. A white map is of no use for me as a map maker.
Now
I have a draft for you to look at. This is based on the location map since 2013. But to me, that can not be correct in regards to the country, divisions (states), and subdivisions?
Do you want me to draw in all of the different colored areas in the big map from the gif-file instead?
If so, even the smallest colored areas?
If this is what you want I have to tell you that I will not be able to do this exactly as the two different maps are not exactly the same. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
16:41, 16 August 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:. I don't know how SVG images are created so pardon me.
I think it should have following layers: 1. Base layer which had coastal border of Gujarat, Sea etc geographical non changing information. 2. a layer with borders of all princely states in gif-file (including smallest one). [this is blank image which i said. So should be uploaded.] 3. a layer with names and titles of each princely states. [image with labels]
Another way I like to have is : 1.same as above 2. all princely states marked by different colors (as in gif-file) but without labels [colored image without label] 3. all princely states with colors and with labels. label layer can be copied from above image. [coloured image with label]
I think in black map you posted as draft do not need modern district borders etc. 2013 map is just for coastal border etc. Making maps of each princely state is not my demand. I want one map with all princely states like in gif-file but with/without colors and with/without label (4 versions). Hope this clarifies.--
Nizil (
talk)
12:37, 21 August 2017 (UTC)
I can understand that its very complex and huge map. Take your time, no hurry. If you have any questions or suggestions, please feel free to ask. I will be happy to answer. Thank you again for taking up this big map. :) -
Nizil (
talk)
18:56, 22 August 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: If you
look at this image you can see some red encircled areas. Within them there are either black or yellow dots. You can find those on several places of the map, different colors.
Goran tek-en. Ignore them as places/small areas. Numbers marks the area/states associated with specific THANA (a group of states under one jurisdiction). Thana name is written near these states. So mark them with points or dots, when you label, to identify that these are under one Thana. My earlier interpretation was wrong but when I checked whole map, I understood. -
Nizil (
talk)
21:03, 24 August 2017 (UTC)
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Nizil Shah:Now there is a draft for you to look at.
As this map is very complicated I probably has made several errors or misunderstandings. So check everything and give me feedback, thanks. This map will be used for all the others so it has to be right before we continue. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
17:40, 2 September 2017 (UTC)
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Goran tek-en:. Great work. I am very impressed by your map. You have done an exceptional job in tracing all the border. I have checked and all borders seem OK to me. I would like to point out two things: 1. How those "see enlargement"s will be handled? Will it be incorporated in the main map or separate boxes of "enlargement" will be drawn? 2. The areas in
Cutch State,
Morvi State and
Nawanagar State some border-like lines which is actually used to mark marsh land of
Rann of Kutch. This lines do not represent boders between states but border of marsh land. See maps in
Great Rann of Kutch and
Little Rann of Kutch which are two parts of
Rann of Kutch for clarification. See
File:Ecoregion IM0901.svg and
Gulf of Kutch too. So how to mark them in map? Should these lines marking these salt marsh lands removed and make them part of the state? (It is done in
File:India Gujarat location map.svg where, in
Kutch district, the salt marsh lands are not marked.) Or mark them in different way? What Wikipedia's Map conventions say about it? Everything else seem OK and good to go. . Regards,--
Nizil (
talk)
12:30, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: The draft you could see is of the main centre map in the gif file, see it as a base map.
Now you have to tell me map by map, step by step what you want for different maps, but only one at the time.
At this point I don't know which of the different insets you want or in which map. If you want them in the same map as the bigger on (base) I will put them there or we can make separete maps and in that case it's easier to make them large if necessary.
In this new draft (png version of the svg) I have marked the marsh (as I understand it) in a way so that the underlying color of the state will be visible thru the pattern. This is a pattern that is used to mark out marsh/wetlands. If they should be marked out (like this or in any other way) is mostly up to if you find them necessary/interesting for your map, it's up to your purpose of the maps. Give me feedback. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
21:36, 5 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:. The marshlands are marked OK. Just note that the northwest-most part of Cutch adjoining the border and sea is also marsh land so make it marshland too. Marking these marshland it important only because we can point that it is non-habitable land area and they are not sea. Please remove that international border between India and Pakistan and labels of India/Pakistan as Pakistan came into existence only after 1947 after
partition of India and today's India formed after
political integration of India after 1947. And please upload this blank base SVG and PNG maps too on Commons too.
I was asking: How those "see enlargement" of Pandu Mewas or Sankheda Mewas or Jetpur States etc will be handled?
Map 1: Let start with
Kaira Agency map (easiest). Create separate Kaira Agency map with colour marking the Agency. The Kaira Agency is marked in inset map of OLD AGENCIES in inset map. See article on
Kaira Agency too which had only one state,
Cambay State. Will this maps created in SVG or PNG?--
Nizil (
talk)
06:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: All maps I create like this is made as svg. Then at commons png versions are created automatically.
Here is a new draft and in this I have added a "world map" so that one knows which area the map covers. For you it's obvious but not for most people, also a small legend. Tell me if you want them or not?
Map 1: Let start with
Kaira Agency map (easiest). Create separate Kaira Agency map with colour marking the Agency. The Kaira Agency is marked in inset map of OLD AGENCIES in inset map. See article on
Kaira Agency too which had only one state,
Cambay State. Will this maps created in SVG or PNG?--
Nizil (
talk)
06:30, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
The two articles you have linked to show the same article and that area Cambay state, is not something I can find in OLD AGENCIES and then within area KAIRA AGENCY.
I'm sorry but I don't understand which area you mean.
Is it the area I have drawn with blue around?
I'm also confused because in the big map the Kaira agency is called Broach and Panch Mahals. Is it different years or what?
Just as a discussion point: Would it be good for you if we had one map with all the insets together. In such a map one could have a smaller version of the big map and mark out the different insets on, like the "world map" I added to the latest draft? --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
21:40, 6 September 2017 (UTC)
Kaira Agency is dark green area in inset map, just above the area you marked in
[1]. Map in
Cambay State=
Kaira Agency is that area. Cambay is marked in large map too .What will you do about labels? We can have two maps of Kaira Agency marked with some colour; with labels and without labels.
Name: Cambay State Kaira Agency of British India 1817-1937.svg
Description:
Cambay State, the only state in
Kaira Agency (1817-1937) of
British India (Linking Wikipedia article in description is easiest way to describe what is in map.)
I am OK with World Map or Map of South Asia in inset if
Wikipedia:WikiProject Maps/Conventions says so. One minor point, corners of boxes are rounded but, according to map conventions, they should be square. For legend, the SVG toolbox on convention page would be helpful, I guess. There is no need of border too, I think.
For inset maps: I think we should create multiple separate maps instead of having one map with all small maps as insets. It will increase usability of each map as well as avoid too much info in one map. We can use multiple map images in one article so there is no need to have all maps in one image.
Note:Please also upload blank map you have created so far without any labels or legend. It will be also helpful in discussion to us as I can point out area etc in the map. One more question: Can borders of image be defined as in
File:India Gujarat location map.svg so this image can also be used as location map image? (I don't know the technicality behind it.--
Nizil (
talk)
05:36, 7 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: Please ping me when you write because the watch function doesn't work all the time, thanks.
Note: The information I asked for uploading was for the blank file, that is what I need to be able to upload it.
I can't read anywhere that the borders has to be solid in a location map but if you want I will make a version like that. The hardest is to get the coordinates correct as this map is made from a map which doesn't hold the same proportions and I have no idea what projection that is used. But we can try if you need it.
Yes it's true that sharp corners is recommended. This is a convention and not a law or rule written in stone. The maps I create have rounded corners as to me this is nicer as a graphic object and all together. So if you don't have any really heavy arguments I will stick to that.
In Kaira Agency Map: Label Cambay State only, it has only one state. In future, we will need to label multiple states in Agency Maps which have many states. --
Nizil (
talk)
13:38, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
I have made two different drafts, one with insets to show the position of the area and one without (they can be cut harder/made a little smaller). I don't exactly know how you will use the map so it's up to you but remember that most people do not have your knowledge.
@
Goran tek-en:. Great. Blank SVG is great. Can you also upload one copy of it without inset world map? In Kaira Agency Map: Maps in inset look more understandable. Keep it. Can you also add a Kaira Agency marked in whole Gujarat Map (as one you have used as a inset map?) I am asking for alternative Maps to see how it looks. Finally, usable maps are here. Lots of thanks. :)--
Nizil (
talk)
19:49, 14 September 2017 (UTC)
I think it would be good if the next inset map we will do can be one with several agencies and with complex labels. This is because then I will find out if we have to change how we show things because of that and as this is one project it's important that we have some kind of standard how to show things, as far as we can.
Name: Kaira Agency Cambay State in Gujarat during British India.svg, description: Locatiom of Kaira Agency (Cambay State) in Gujarat during British India
Category: British Agencies in India -
Nizil (
talk)
19:01, 19 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:. My next suggestion is to take up two
Rewa Kantha Agency maps. See article and gif-map (inset OLD AGENCIES map and Large main map). I have made two maps in paintbrush to give you an idea what I want. One RK Agency (marked in red) Map and one RK Agency map with all states marked in different colours and labels. Please tell how to mark Mewas enlargements. Label size, font, colours, position of insets etc should be decided by you. I have just made it poorly in paintbrush. Hope this helps.--
Nizil (
talk)
05:49, 18 September 2017 (UTC)
There are to pink encircled areas that I'm not sure about.
Yes the job you have done in paintbrush is very helpful for me, thanks.
I don't understand what you mean by "a new layer of labels should be added in SVG". I put information in different layers as I need but that is not something you have to worry about, just tell me what you want. Right now I can't see what usage we have for the georeference, to me that is used when you want to put out different cities and other stuff with a "tool" here. But I'm glad you showed me the tool, it's very helpful for me, thanks. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
19:15, 21 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:,
File:Rewa Kantha Agency discussion 2.png is created for answers. I had forgotten to mark some areas in former images so corrected and this map is at higher resolution. I have colored princely states with different colors as in gif-map. I need one such multi-colored image too with all labels/names (as in main gif-map). Still one question remains: How Pandu Mewas and Sankheda Mewas will be handled?--
Nizil (
talk)
05:02, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
I'm still working on this that I show you as a draft. I haven't started with the other one so I can't answer your questions yet. First we have to get this one colored correct before I move on to the next. This is very complex maps and I have have no knowledge, so one at the time. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
15:55, 22 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:, Rewa K map looks all OK. upload it. Name: Rewa Kantha Agency Gujarat during British India 1811-1937.svg Description: Rewa Kantha Agency (1811-1937) in Gujarat during British India Category: as above map.--
Nizil (
talk)
05:07, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah:This is as a discussion draft (not a complete draft). The colors a picked from a palette which should work for most people with color vision variations. It's almost impossible to make this many colors work for everyone, then you have to add patterns and that would make a picture like this even harder to read. This is a suggestion of the labels. They have to be as big so one can view them but also point to the different areas. This makes sense to me as the names has the same colors as the areas. Is this OK or should I do something else? --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
15:08, 23 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:, I am OK with whatever colours you choose. Regarding labels, I think the proposed approach will not work for more complex future maps where number of states will be very large. So I think we should create separate "Legend" for labels. Or any other ways or suggestion? Or simply labelling the States with names as in gif-map?--
Nizil (
talk)
06:54, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: Sorry my mistake, I didn't give you the whole idea.
Draft to check. My idea is to have the labels in a kind of two steps variation. To the right is step 1 (names) when that can be used. For more complex maps I use step 2 (numbers), to the left. Is that OK with you? --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
16:08, 25 September 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:, I am OK with your idea. Is there any way to make yellow (Pandu Mewas) and light green (Rajpipla) names more visible as it is difficult to read those names due to light color? --
Nizil (
talk)
13:09, 26 September 2017 (UTC)
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Goran tek-en:. Great. Its OK. Upload it. Name:Rewa Kantha Agency with all Princely States Gujarat during British India 1811-1937 with labels.svg category and description as above. -
Nizil (
talk)
19:05, 2 October 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah: Now I have three drafts for you to check. I did see some differences between your maps and the gif so you have to check everything, as always.
@
Goran tek-en:, You have done great. Note that in all three maps: an enclave of Dharampur State in Nagar Haveli (Portuguese) region is not colored. (I had missed that too and now have corrected it
File:Surat Agency Gujarat during British India 1880-1933.png). Please color it. Except that Map 1 and 2 are ready to go. In Map 3, can we make inset map of The Dangs+labels on right instead of left as it will not have to cross over other states? It is also difficult to understand and follow numbering in inset map. Can we just mark numbers on states instead of dialogue-bubbles as in inset map of Dangs in gif-map? Thanks again.--
Nizil (
talk)
05:15, 16 October 2017 (UTC)
Forgotten: Name: Name:Rewa Kantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1811-1937/Description: Rewa Kantha Agency during British India (1811-1937)
1: Name: Surat Agency in Gujarat during British India 1880-1933/Des: Surat Agency (1880-1933) during British India
2: Name: Surat Agency with all princely states British India 1880-1933/Des: Surat Agency (1880-1933) during British India with all princely states under the agency
3: Name: Surat Agency with all princely states with labels British India 1880-1933/Des: Surat Agency (1880-1933) during British India with all princely states under the agency labelled
Category for all: Maps of Agencies of British India, Maps of princely states of India
@
Goran tek-en:. Name:Rewa Kantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1811-1937 / Description: Rewa Kantha Agency during British India (1811-1937) / Category: Maps of Agencies of British India, Maps of princely states of India. --
Nizil (
talk)
04:56, 25 October 2017 (UTC)
@
Goran tek-en:. Please check all disputed lands maked with d in gif-image. In your image, sometimes disputed lands are marked red (a disputed land between Idar and Danta) and sometimes not (for example a strip of land above Lunavada in most east of Idar). I think we should colour them some light red shade as they are part of agency but disputed between two states. You can choose different color too. Except this everything looks OK and good to go.--
Nizil (
talk)
05:14, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
@
Nizil Shah:4_1_Mahi_Kantha disputed dashed. I followed your painted image. I have now tried to follow the gif but it's really hard for me to understand all the different colors and stuff with out knowledge. If you could do a new colored version with ONLY all the disputed areas colored it would help me a lot, thanks. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
18:11, 28 October 2017 (UTC)
Goran tek-en,1 and 2 are good to go...except a small uncertain village problem listed below in last line. Name: File:Mahi Kantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1820-1933.svg for 1 and Mahi Kantha Agency during British India with inset maps 1820-1933.svg for 2. Categories: Maps of Agencies of British India, Maps of princely states of India
For 3: There are some problems. Several labels are missing and in Thanas and independent villages within are not marked. Uncertain villages/states are not marked. I know that the map I had posted and gif-map both are confusing. so I have created this new map similar to your mapping style. I think instead of speech bubbles to mark numbers, directly placing them would be more cleaner. And there is no need to arrange names in A-Z. All Thana (group of villages under one jurisdiction) are marked in pink. Sometimes several numbers are placed in one area because villages are so small to mark individually within a Thana like in Katosan Thana. Just copy the way I have created new image and its done I guess: See
File:Mahi_Kantha_Agency_during_British_India_1820-1933_with_States_and_Thanas2.png. I have not marked disputed and unknown places in map. Correction in uncertain: Regarding W (Warodra) in Bawishi Thana and N (Nirnali) in Vatrak Kantha Thana, this two villages are uncertain while Thanas are known and certain. So change their colors to red instead of marked as uncertain and draw a little dot within them and mark them as uncertain village W and N. See my map. Regards.--
Nizil (
talk)
13:30, 9 November 2017 (UTC)
I haven't changed for W N yet because I'm not sure about the coloring. You wrote I should color them red, do they belong to Vijaynagar or any other part that is colored all ready, or should they have new colors each, or one together? --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
20:08, 17 November 2017 (UTC)
W and N are uncertain villages which are marked by W and N. But the Thana, in which they are, are known. So instead of coloring those Thanas uncertain (green) is wrong and they should be colored normally (red in map 1 and 2). They should be colored pink like we have done with all other Thanas. so simply colour W and N red in map 1 and 2. And pink in map 3. And its done. :) --
Nizil (
talk)
05:53, 18 November 2017 (UTC)
Names: 1: Mahi Kantha Agency during British India 1820-1933.svg; 2: Mahi Kantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1820-1933.svg; 3: Mahi Kantha Agency during British India 1820-1933 with States and Thanas.svg
Maps showing location within Gujarat (like
This): 5: Thana Agency Jawhar State in Gujarat during British India.png, 6: Nasik Agency Surgana State in Gujarat during British India.png
Agency Maps(like
This): 5: Thana Agency Jawhar State during British India.png, 6: Nasik Agency Surgana State during British India.png
Categories: Maps of Agencies of British India, Maps of princely states of India
@
Goran tek-en:, all three are OK. Names: 1:Palanpur Banaskantha Agency during British India 1819-1933.svg , 2:Palanpur Banaskantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1819-1933.svg and 3:Palanpur Banaskantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1819-1933 with States and Thanas.svg. Categories: Maps of Agencies of British India, Maps of princely states of India. I am on vacation but still keep an eye on pending works. :)-
Nizil (
talk)
05:51, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
Information from: [https://revisitingindia.files.wordpress.com/2013/08/1947guje.gif Information image] but now it seems as this website is on a blacklist so I can't put out that info. Should I write something else?
I don't no why that link is blocked. You can link image posted by me as a source of info for now. Will sort out what to do.
I just saw that I lost a "3" at the end of this files name Palanpur Banaskantha Agency in Gujarat during British India 1819-193.svg, sorry for that, can you ask for a change of name, I will change in the description. --
Goran tek-en (
talk)
15:24, 3 January 2018 (UTC)
This way based on ABCD, four maps of each Agency marked with single colour should be created. In addition, one (most important) image of each Agency with all princely states marked in different colours should be created. So All agencies will have 5 maps.
Note: Agencies are merged/organised over the years according to Succession chart above. So subsequent agency images can be created by merging these agency maps.
Gujarat by years
Four images (before 1924, 1924-1933, 1933-1943, 1943-1947) can be created by merging above mentioned agency maps.
Princely (e)state-wise maps
Earch princely (e)state (around 250 total) should have its own location map as in
c:Category:Locator maps of districts of Gujarat. Princely State maps should have with label and without label maps from AB or CD. But its large task. It can be done in reverse by creating state maps first, then merging them in agency maps and later merging agency in years map by merging agency maps.