The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot ( talk) 08:27, 17 January 2019 [1].
This article is about the only rapid transit line on Staten Island. The railway first opened in 1860 to serve the residents of the island. In the 1880s two additional lines were built and the original line was extended to a new terminal at St. George. Since then the two additional branches closed, leaving the original line. Before I started editing the page–unbeknownst to me–it was completely copied out of a book by an abusive user. I did research in the New York Times archives, through books that I own, and through books and documents that could be viewed on Hathitrust or Google Books. I nominated the article to be a Good Article, and it passed. The review was not thorough enough, and statements were copyrighted. I fixed the issues and it was kept as a good article. Because the history section became so long, it got split off into a separate article, History of the Staten Island Railway. Since then I have worked on providing better sources, more accurate information, and additional information. I nominated this on April 22 of this year, and in response to comments made by Nikkimaria I replaced some SPSs and standardized some sources. The nominations subsequently stalled, and was archived. I hope that a more thorough discussion of the article can take place to determine what changes need to be made for this article to become a Featured Article. I look forward to working with other editors to resolve these issues in a constructive manner. For those taking up time to review my nomination, I thank you in advance for taking the time to do so. Kew Gardens 613 ( talk) 17:01, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
I should get to this today or tomorrow. Catrìona ( talk) 09:20, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Source numbering based on the permalink to the current revision: [2]
viaanything, since that's already obvious in the url and just serves to advertise Google Books or other websites.
includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the source.In addition,
To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented.Current source 123 is directly related to the topic as it is an image of the spur for the West Shore Branch of the railway. It supports the material being presented by showing that the connection between the two has been severed. It is clear that it was not photoshopped in any way. The date is accurate and the location is accurate. The picture taken was not done for a personal motive other than to depict the state of reality, and the present condition of the spur. The only citations referring to nycsubway.org are images. I removed the red marker note because it is too esoteric, and does not belong in the lead. In my previous FA nomination for the article I showed that Ed Bommer
is an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications.A thorough response would be appreciated. While it seems like that this nomination is on the path for failure, I have the intent of doing as much as I can so it can pass. Thanks.-- Kew Gardens 613 ( talk) 18:45, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
I conducted this article's first GA review and missed the copyvios the first time around. Sorry about that. Anyway, it seems like a few phrases in the "Freight Service" section still copy from other pages. Otherwise, I think the copyvio issues have been largely resolved. epicgenius ( talk) 16:47, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
The number of SIRT passengers decreased from 12.3 million in 1947 to 4.4 million in 1949 as passengers switched from the rail line to city-operated buses due to a bus-fare reduction. On September 5, 1948, 237 of the line's 492 weekday trains were cut; express service would be reduced during rush hours, and all night trains after 1:29 a.m. would be cancelled. Thirty percent of the company's employees were laid off. On September 7, 1948, Staten Island Borough President Cornelius Hall continued to rally against the SIRT cuts at a Public Service Commission hearing in Manhattan. Commuters testified that trains were missing ferry connections and being held at the St. George Terminal during rush hour to wait for double boatloads of passengers; the trains had previously pulled out after each ferry unloaded. On September 13, 1948, the SIRT agreed to add four trains and extend the schedule of four others. Nine days later the Interstate Commerce Commission allowed the SIRT to abandon the ferry it had operated for 88 years between Tottenville and Perth Amboy, New Jersey, and the ferry operation was transferred to Sunrise Ferries of Elizabeth, New Jersey on October 16.
Here from WT:Featured article candidates#Staten Island Railway. I see MOS issues also, per WP:FA?.2, regarding both WP:LEADCITE and MOS:SANDWICH. These points are certainly easier to rectify than the OR concerns indicated above but are also less fundamental. —— SerialNumber 54129 11:09, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
SIR operates 24 hours a day, seven days a week, providing local service between St. George and Tottenville, along the east side of the borough.The fare-free aspect and the peak express might be the only other things that need to be included from what is now the second and third paragraphs. epicgenius ( talk) 16:21, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
There are quite a few links in references section to newspaper stories sourced via NewsLibrary.com, but none of these seem to work without an account there. Are these links of any value? Nick-D ( talk) 07:58, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
Oppose and suggest withdrawal. This is still open so I'm assuming the coordiantors want to see some more feedback, but I'm guessing the reason it's not attracting any substantial commentary is the outstanding oppose above. A bit of a rock and a hard place. I'm afraid I agree withe Catriona/Buidhe that this article is not based on high-quality, reliable, third-party sources. It appears to be based on various (24, to be precise) documents from the MTA website (which, as the owner/operator of the system, is not a third party), when it needs to be based on books and other histories published by heavyweight publishers. You also have multiple questionable sources. For example, what makes the following high-quality reliable sources:
Add to that that the formatting or the references is inconsistent and messy. Publishers locations are not compulsory but generally included in FA-level articles; likewise, books and other multi-page sources are usually listed in a separate bibliography and cited short form inline. The "work" field in citation templates is for the name of the publication, not the web address (eg |work=Wikipedia, not |work=en.wikipedia.org); if there isn't a name, leave the field blank and just use |publisher=. I'm seeing inconsistent capitalisation and missing punctuation in titles (eg Free ride to commit a crime Elimination of fare for most on the Staten Island Railway allows trouble-causing youths to get on and off at will). The formatting issues alone in my opinion show that the article is not FAC-ready. If they were the only issue, I'd be willing to offer help and advice, but there's no point in neatly formatting references to to self-published sites and user-generated wikis, because those will never be acceptable sources for a featured article candidate. I know this is disappointing. A lot of work has clearly gone into this article, but the sourcing needs major work before it's ready for FAC. I suggest you withdraw the nomination, cite every piece of information to the strongest source you can find (books for the history, news articles for specific events; the MTA is fine for operating details) and then re-evaluate. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:08, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Credit to Kew Gardens for prompt engagement re. issues raised, but I'm going to archive this now. We generally close noms that receive an early withdrawal recommendation but I refrained in this instance to see if in fact the sourcing concerns could be dealt with quickly; that Harry also has serious concerns in this area after almost a month reinforces the impression that the nom was premature. Pls continue improvements outside the FAC process, ideally involving Catriona/Buidhe and Harry (and any of the other reviewers who are interested), before renominating. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 08:26, 17 January 2019 (UTC)
The article was archived by Ian Rose via FACBot ( talk) 08:27, 17 January 2019 [1].
This article is about the only rapid transit line on Staten Island. The railway first opened in 1860 to serve the residents of the island. In the 1880s two additional lines were built and the original line was extended to a new terminal at St. George. Since then the two additional branches closed, leaving the original line. Before I started editing the page–unbeknownst to me–it was completely copied out of a book by an abusive user. I did research in the New York Times archives, through books that I own, and through books and documents that could be viewed on Hathitrust or Google Books. I nominated the article to be a Good Article, and it passed. The review was not thorough enough, and statements were copyrighted. I fixed the issues and it was kept as a good article. Because the history section became so long, it got split off into a separate article, History of the Staten Island Railway. Since then I have worked on providing better sources, more accurate information, and additional information. I nominated this on April 22 of this year, and in response to comments made by Nikkimaria I replaced some SPSs and standardized some sources. The nominations subsequently stalled, and was archived. I hope that a more thorough discussion of the article can take place to determine what changes need to be made for this article to become a Featured Article. I look forward to working with other editors to resolve these issues in a constructive manner. For those taking up time to review my nomination, I thank you in advance for taking the time to do so. Kew Gardens 613 ( talk) 17:01, 19 December 2018 (UTC)
I should get to this today or tomorrow. Catrìona ( talk) 09:20, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
Source numbering based on the permalink to the current revision: [2]
viaanything, since that's already obvious in the url and just serves to advertise Google Books or other websites.
includes any analysis or synthesis of published material that serves to reach or imply a conclusion not stated by the source.In addition,
To demonstrate that you are not adding OR, you must be able to cite reliable, published sources that are directly related to the topic of the article, and directly support the material being presented.Current source 123 is directly related to the topic as it is an image of the spur for the West Shore Branch of the railway. It supports the material being presented by showing that the connection between the two has been severed. It is clear that it was not photoshopped in any way. The date is accurate and the location is accurate. The picture taken was not done for a personal motive other than to depict the state of reality, and the present condition of the spur. The only citations referring to nycsubway.org are images. I removed the red marker note because it is too esoteric, and does not belong in the lead. In my previous FA nomination for the article I showed that Ed Bommer
is an established expert on the subject matter, whose work in the relevant field has previously been published by reliable third-party publications.A thorough response would be appreciated. While it seems like that this nomination is on the path for failure, I have the intent of doing as much as I can so it can pass. Thanks.-- Kew Gardens 613 ( talk) 18:45, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
I conducted this article's first GA review and missed the copyvios the first time around. Sorry about that. Anyway, it seems like a few phrases in the "Freight Service" section still copy from other pages. Otherwise, I think the copyvio issues have been largely resolved. epicgenius ( talk) 16:47, 20 December 2018 (UTC)
The number of SIRT passengers decreased from 12.3 million in 1947 to 4.4 million in 1949 as passengers switched from the rail line to city-operated buses due to a bus-fare reduction. On September 5, 1948, 237 of the line's 492 weekday trains were cut; express service would be reduced during rush hours, and all night trains after 1:29 a.m. would be cancelled. Thirty percent of the company's employees were laid off. On September 7, 1948, Staten Island Borough President Cornelius Hall continued to rally against the SIRT cuts at a Public Service Commission hearing in Manhattan. Commuters testified that trains were missing ferry connections and being held at the St. George Terminal during rush hour to wait for double boatloads of passengers; the trains had previously pulled out after each ferry unloaded. On September 13, 1948, the SIRT agreed to add four trains and extend the schedule of four others. Nine days later the Interstate Commerce Commission allowed the SIRT to abandon the ferry it had operated for 88 years between Tottenville and Perth Amboy, New Jersey, and the ferry operation was transferred to Sunrise Ferries of Elizabeth, New Jersey on October 16.
Here from WT:Featured article candidates#Staten Island Railway. I see MOS issues also, per WP:FA?.2, regarding both WP:LEADCITE and MOS:SANDWICH. These points are certainly easier to rectify than the OR concerns indicated above but are also less fundamental. —— SerialNumber 54129 11:09, 21 December 2018 (UTC)
SIR operates 24 hours a day, seven days a week, providing local service between St. George and Tottenville, along the east side of the borough.The fare-free aspect and the peak express might be the only other things that need to be included from what is now the second and third paragraphs. epicgenius ( talk) 16:21, 13 January 2019 (UTC)
There are quite a few links in references section to newspaper stories sourced via NewsLibrary.com, but none of these seem to work without an account there. Are these links of any value? Nick-D ( talk) 07:58, 22 December 2018 (UTC)
Oppose and suggest withdrawal. This is still open so I'm assuming the coordiantors want to see some more feedback, but I'm guessing the reason it's not attracting any substantial commentary is the outstanding oppose above. A bit of a rock and a hard place. I'm afraid I agree withe Catriona/Buidhe that this article is not based on high-quality, reliable, third-party sources. It appears to be based on various (24, to be precise) documents from the MTA website (which, as the owner/operator of the system, is not a third party), when it needs to be based on books and other histories published by heavyweight publishers. You also have multiple questionable sources. For example, what makes the following high-quality reliable sources:
Add to that that the formatting or the references is inconsistent and messy. Publishers locations are not compulsory but generally included in FA-level articles; likewise, books and other multi-page sources are usually listed in a separate bibliography and cited short form inline. The "work" field in citation templates is for the name of the publication, not the web address (eg |work=Wikipedia, not |work=en.wikipedia.org); if there isn't a name, leave the field blank and just use |publisher=. I'm seeing inconsistent capitalisation and missing punctuation in titles (eg Free ride to commit a crime Elimination of fare for most on the Staten Island Railway allows trouble-causing youths to get on and off at will). The formatting issues alone in my opinion show that the article is not FAC-ready. If they were the only issue, I'd be willing to offer help and advice, but there's no point in neatly formatting references to to self-published sites and user-generated wikis, because those will never be acceptable sources for a featured article candidate. I know this is disappointing. A lot of work has clearly gone into this article, but the sourcing needs major work before it's ready for FAC. I suggest you withdraw the nomination, cite every piece of information to the strongest source you can find (books for the history, news articles for specific events; the MTA is fine for operating details) and then re-evaluate. HJ Mitchell | Penny for your thoughts? 22:08, 15 January 2019 (UTC)
Credit to Kew Gardens for prompt engagement re. issues raised, but I'm going to archive this now. We generally close noms that receive an early withdrawal recommendation but I refrained in this instance to see if in fact the sourcing concerns could be dealt with quickly; that Harry also has serious concerns in this area after almost a month reinforces the impression that the nom was premature. Pls continue improvements outside the FAC process, ideally involving Catriona/Buidhe and Harry (and any of the other reviewers who are interested), before renominating. Tks/cheers, Ian Rose ( talk) 08:26, 17 January 2019 (UTC)