The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot ( talk) 22:53, 29 October 2018 [1].
Black Mirror is an infamously dark and depressing anthology series, but as it moved to Netflix, Charlie Brooker marked the show's new era by writing what is, in my opinion, the most beautiful and uplifting love story in the history of television. A previous FAC for "San Junipero" failed only due to lack of comments. I hope the article does the episode justice. — Bilorv (c) (talk) 19:31, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Resolved comments
|
---|
@ Aoba47: I've addressed all the comments you made at the previous FAC other than the following:
Thank you for the response. I will look through the article again by the end of the week, but please ping me if I do not add additional comments by the end of Saturday. If you have the time, I would greatly appreciate any feedback on my current FAC. It is a far less commercially/critically acclaimed piece of television (i.e. it was terrible and a flop), but any help would be appreciated. Good luck with this round, and I hope that this receives more comments. Aoba47 ( talk) 21:01, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
|
Great work on the article. Once these relatively minor comments are addressed, I will be more than happy to support this. It definitely inspires me to work on another television episode article, as it has been a while since I have done so. I hope that you are having a wonderful week so far. Aoba47 ( talk) 23:15, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
@ Aoba47: are there any more comments I need to address? — Bilorv (c) (talk) 23:06, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Whilst series one and two of Black Mirror were shown on Channel 4 in the UK, Netflix commissioned the series for 12 episodes (split into two series of six episodes) in September 2015,[1] and in March 2016, Netflix outbid Channel 4 for the rights to distributing series three with a bid of $40 million- I don't understand this. If Netflix commissioned the season 3 episodes in 15, why did it have to outbid Channel 4 in 16? I'm assuming Netflix didn't plan in 2015 on paying for a season to be shown on Channel 4 at the time.
Alongside "Nosedive", "San Junipero" was first shown in 2016 ahead of its Netflix release at the Toronto International Film Festival.- You should mention that Nosedive is another episode from the season, as without it, it's not different than the many other TV shows/films shown in that festival.
Authored by Charlie Brooker, it was a "conscious decision to change the series."- I have a problem with the word "Authored" as it isn't used in television and it's also not used by you in the article lead or infobox. "Written" should be good enough here. I've also have a problem with how the sentence is constructed. I don't know why but it just seems like it's cut short. Actually the whole paragraph seems off to me. See next point.
"San Junipero" was the first episode written for series three.[6] Authored by Charlie Brooker, it was a "conscious decision to change the series".[7] The show previously focused on technology's negative effects;[8] this episode served as proof that uplifting Black Mirror episodes are possible.[7] Brooker initially envisioned an episode in which technology is used to investigate whether an afterlife exists.[9] He later became inspired by nostalgia therapy for older people. Having repeatedly thought of writing an episode set in the past,[6]Brooker wrote "San Junipero" as a period episode.[10]- These short rapid sentences make the flow seem off to me. As an example change
Brooker initially envisioned an episode in which technology is used to investigate whether an afterlife exists, but later became inspired by nostalgia therapy for older people..
this episode served as proof that uplifting Black Mirror episodes are possible- (maybe if the previous point is fixed this won't be an issue) - this seems like a response to someone saying it isn't possible, but all you have here is this statement which seems like we're reading half a conversation.
Brooker told The Daily Beast that in the rough treatment- I know you linked to the Daily Beast in the box on the right, but this is the first time in running text it's mentioned and could probably be linked here also. I didn't even notice the box while reading.
Director Owen Harris described the 1980s- could probably link to the director as that is the first mention of him since the lead.
Gugu Mbatha-Raw, who plays Kelly, had heard of the show but not seen it when she received the script, though she did watch "Be Right Back" before the shoot- similar to a previous comment. You should probably mention that Be Right Back is another episode from the series, as the context is missing.
on a bus journey from Oxford Circus to Brixton- I'd link these two. I'm not from the UK and I had no idea where these two are so no idea how long that bus journey was and I actually did search these here to find out, linking would have been easier and faster.
Davis first saw the show with a friend- You should probably write her full name as you did with Gugu Mbatha-Raw and as its the first time she's mentioned since the plot. I had to re-read the previous section to see if I missed who Davis was.
Elfring described it as the only episode with "warmth to it, and Jeffery called it the "most upbeat and positive. Handlen believed that the previous episodes' sad tone heightens the effectiveness of "San Junipero",[41] and Stolworthy thought that it was consequently the show's most ambitious episode.[42] Saraiya notes that technology is portrayed as good in "San Junipero", a rarity in the show.[43] Sims noted that the episode follows the season's darkest episode, "Shut Up and Dance".[44]"- who are Elfring, Jeffery, Handlen, Stolworthy, Saraiya and Sims? (probably critics/reviewers, but you should give them their full name and website/newspapper)
Its Emmy Award wins were considered by some to mark a cultural shift in relation to portrayal of lesbianism- should link to the Emmy Award ceremony.
They are not the focus of exploration in the episode, but its plot raises many philosophical questions,[45] including the nature of consciousness and experience[37][45] and the consequences of digitally simulated existence.- I don't understand who "They" are. If "They" are the philosophical questions, then please consider revising as it is not clear.
Reviewers have questioned what San Junipero would mean to believers in an afterlife- is the "San Junipero" here the episode title or a place in the episode? If it's the title then its missing the correct style.
Thanks so much for the review! I've responded to each of your points. — Bilorv (c) (talk) 23:55, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
For the award nominations, see Beachum, Christ; Dixon, Marcus James [...] For the award winner, see Montgomery, Daniel [...]which implies that one ref is for the first row and the other ref is for the second row. -- Gonnym ( talk) 10:25, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
@ Gonnym: are there any more comments I need to address? — Bilorv (c) (talk) 23:06, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Looks really good (except for my personal dislike of a missing cast section :) ). I have a few more comments, but for me the article condition looks ready. One major caveat though, I haven't verified any of the references, so take that into account.
The episode has a substantially more hopeful tone than other Black Mirror stories; it was popular with critics, and received numerous awards.- this is then repeated in the 3rd lead paragraph, so should probably be removed from the first paragraph as there is no real point to summarize the lead.
Harris has said that Cape Town "has these really rich, beautiful settings" that allowed him to craft a "slightly heightened" version of California.[16] Mbatha-Raw said that almost every scene was shot at night or dusk, particularly the exterior scenes.[22] Harris said that, during the shooting of the argument on the beach between Kelly and Yorkie in their wedding dresses, an "incredible mist rolled in from the ocean and it turned into this really beautiful scene", which caused difficulties but led to "some really lovely texture".[16] Mbatha-Raw recalled an ostrich walking onto the beach during one filming session.[23].- this reads a bit akward as a "he->her->he->her" and could probably change to something like
Harris has said that Cape Town "has these really rich, beautiful settings" that allowed him to craft a "slightly heightened" version of California,[16] and noted that during the shooting of the argument on the beach between Kelly and Yorkie in their wedding dresses, an "incredible mist rolled in from the ocean and it turned into this really beautiful scene", which caused difficulties but led to "some really lovely texture". Mbatha-Raw said that almost every scene was shot at night or dusk, particularly the exterior scenes.[22]
Mbatha-Raw recalled an ostrich walking onto the beach during one filming session.[23]- Could also probably remove this. I'm not sure what it added really, seems a bit trivia (unless there is a significance to it, which isn't explained).
The episode contains hints leading up to the reveal of the twist. A factor considered during the editing process was how overt the hints should be. Annabel Jones says that "there may be visual signifiers that you think were going to work and then didn't, so you need more exposition in the edit". Adjustments were also made using sound design techniques such as sound effects.[11]- seems this paragraph is not related to either "Cast" nor "filming".
San Junipero" is a highly optimistic,[29] emotionally rooted[30] love story and a work of science fiction.- maybe revise so it doesn't sound like this claim came from us (which reads a bit like original research) or is a universal claim, but from the people you are citing so something like "Reviewers have called "San Junipero" a highly optimistic..."
The episode provides an example of bisexual lighting, as colours from the bisexual pride flag are used to represent the sexualities of Kelly and Yorkie.- This is in the flag box and is missing a reference (even if its in the article, the box doesn't have it)
Mbatha-Raw's and Davis's performances were universally praised,[b] even by reviewers who disliked the episode.- are the people quoted later the ones that disliked the episode? It wasn't clear to me (without reading references) who liked their performances but disliked the episode.
@ Gonnym: I think I've addressed all of these points. — Bilorv (c) (talk) 13:21, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
I'll take a pass at this; expect comments by tomorrow. JOE BRO 64 23:31, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
Overall this is a really clean article. Nice work JOE BRO 64 19:59, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Comment Thanks to a recent edit adding archive links, the citations have become extremely bulky due to their each having three (!) dates—of publication, retrieval and archival. Since WP:CITEWEB suggests retrieval dates are only "required if the publication date is unknown", I believe they can definitely be removed.— indopug ( talk) 06:09, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Coordinator note - We're getting there, but this needs pushing over the hill or it will have to be archived soon. Since this is the second nomination and some good commentary has been generated, I'll wait a bit. MoS errors are present ("Annabel Jones says that") and the citation issue brought up by Indopug above needs discussion and resolution. I don't see any reason for the citations to be exploded with three different dates each. WP:V should be the driving factor in such decisions, along with readability. -- Laser brain (talk) 13:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Good that it's not been archived. FrB.TG ( talk) 15:45, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Source review - spotchecks not done
Thanks for the review! I think I've addressed all of your comments. — Bilorv (c) (talk) 16:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)
The article was promoted by Laser brain via FACBot ( talk) 22:53, 29 October 2018 [1].
Black Mirror is an infamously dark and depressing anthology series, but as it moved to Netflix, Charlie Brooker marked the show's new era by writing what is, in my opinion, the most beautiful and uplifting love story in the history of television. A previous FAC for "San Junipero" failed only due to lack of comments. I hope the article does the episode justice. — Bilorv (c) (talk) 19:31, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
Resolved comments
|
---|
@ Aoba47: I've addressed all the comments you made at the previous FAC other than the following:
Thank you for the response. I will look through the article again by the end of the week, but please ping me if I do not add additional comments by the end of Saturday. If you have the time, I would greatly appreciate any feedback on my current FAC. It is a far less commercially/critically acclaimed piece of television (i.e. it was terrible and a flop), but any help would be appreciated. Good luck with this round, and I hope that this receives more comments. Aoba47 ( talk) 21:01, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
|
Great work on the article. Once these relatively minor comments are addressed, I will be more than happy to support this. It definitely inspires me to work on another television episode article, as it has been a while since I have done so. I hope that you are having a wonderful week so far. Aoba47 ( talk) 23:15, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
@ Aoba47: are there any more comments I need to address? — Bilorv (c) (talk) 23:06, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Whilst series one and two of Black Mirror were shown on Channel 4 in the UK, Netflix commissioned the series for 12 episodes (split into two series of six episodes) in September 2015,[1] and in March 2016, Netflix outbid Channel 4 for the rights to distributing series three with a bid of $40 million- I don't understand this. If Netflix commissioned the season 3 episodes in 15, why did it have to outbid Channel 4 in 16? I'm assuming Netflix didn't plan in 2015 on paying for a season to be shown on Channel 4 at the time.
Alongside "Nosedive", "San Junipero" was first shown in 2016 ahead of its Netflix release at the Toronto International Film Festival.- You should mention that Nosedive is another episode from the season, as without it, it's not different than the many other TV shows/films shown in that festival.
Authored by Charlie Brooker, it was a "conscious decision to change the series."- I have a problem with the word "Authored" as it isn't used in television and it's also not used by you in the article lead or infobox. "Written" should be good enough here. I've also have a problem with how the sentence is constructed. I don't know why but it just seems like it's cut short. Actually the whole paragraph seems off to me. See next point.
"San Junipero" was the first episode written for series three.[6] Authored by Charlie Brooker, it was a "conscious decision to change the series".[7] The show previously focused on technology's negative effects;[8] this episode served as proof that uplifting Black Mirror episodes are possible.[7] Brooker initially envisioned an episode in which technology is used to investigate whether an afterlife exists.[9] He later became inspired by nostalgia therapy for older people. Having repeatedly thought of writing an episode set in the past,[6]Brooker wrote "San Junipero" as a period episode.[10]- These short rapid sentences make the flow seem off to me. As an example change
Brooker initially envisioned an episode in which technology is used to investigate whether an afterlife exists, but later became inspired by nostalgia therapy for older people..
this episode served as proof that uplifting Black Mirror episodes are possible- (maybe if the previous point is fixed this won't be an issue) - this seems like a response to someone saying it isn't possible, but all you have here is this statement which seems like we're reading half a conversation.
Brooker told The Daily Beast that in the rough treatment- I know you linked to the Daily Beast in the box on the right, but this is the first time in running text it's mentioned and could probably be linked here also. I didn't even notice the box while reading.
Director Owen Harris described the 1980s- could probably link to the director as that is the first mention of him since the lead.
Gugu Mbatha-Raw, who plays Kelly, had heard of the show but not seen it when she received the script, though she did watch "Be Right Back" before the shoot- similar to a previous comment. You should probably mention that Be Right Back is another episode from the series, as the context is missing.
on a bus journey from Oxford Circus to Brixton- I'd link these two. I'm not from the UK and I had no idea where these two are so no idea how long that bus journey was and I actually did search these here to find out, linking would have been easier and faster.
Davis first saw the show with a friend- You should probably write her full name as you did with Gugu Mbatha-Raw and as its the first time she's mentioned since the plot. I had to re-read the previous section to see if I missed who Davis was.
Elfring described it as the only episode with "warmth to it, and Jeffery called it the "most upbeat and positive. Handlen believed that the previous episodes' sad tone heightens the effectiveness of "San Junipero",[41] and Stolworthy thought that it was consequently the show's most ambitious episode.[42] Saraiya notes that technology is portrayed as good in "San Junipero", a rarity in the show.[43] Sims noted that the episode follows the season's darkest episode, "Shut Up and Dance".[44]"- who are Elfring, Jeffery, Handlen, Stolworthy, Saraiya and Sims? (probably critics/reviewers, but you should give them their full name and website/newspapper)
Its Emmy Award wins were considered by some to mark a cultural shift in relation to portrayal of lesbianism- should link to the Emmy Award ceremony.
They are not the focus of exploration in the episode, but its plot raises many philosophical questions,[45] including the nature of consciousness and experience[37][45] and the consequences of digitally simulated existence.- I don't understand who "They" are. If "They" are the philosophical questions, then please consider revising as it is not clear.
Reviewers have questioned what San Junipero would mean to believers in an afterlife- is the "San Junipero" here the episode title or a place in the episode? If it's the title then its missing the correct style.
Thanks so much for the review! I've responded to each of your points. — Bilorv (c) (talk) 23:55, 3 September 2018 (UTC)
For the award nominations, see Beachum, Christ; Dixon, Marcus James [...] For the award winner, see Montgomery, Daniel [...]which implies that one ref is for the first row and the other ref is for the second row. -- Gonnym ( talk) 10:25, 4 September 2018 (UTC)
@ Gonnym: are there any more comments I need to address? — Bilorv (c) (talk) 23:06, 7 September 2018 (UTC)
Looks really good (except for my personal dislike of a missing cast section :) ). I have a few more comments, but for me the article condition looks ready. One major caveat though, I haven't verified any of the references, so take that into account.
The episode has a substantially more hopeful tone than other Black Mirror stories; it was popular with critics, and received numerous awards.- this is then repeated in the 3rd lead paragraph, so should probably be removed from the first paragraph as there is no real point to summarize the lead.
Harris has said that Cape Town "has these really rich, beautiful settings" that allowed him to craft a "slightly heightened" version of California.[16] Mbatha-Raw said that almost every scene was shot at night or dusk, particularly the exterior scenes.[22] Harris said that, during the shooting of the argument on the beach between Kelly and Yorkie in their wedding dresses, an "incredible mist rolled in from the ocean and it turned into this really beautiful scene", which caused difficulties but led to "some really lovely texture".[16] Mbatha-Raw recalled an ostrich walking onto the beach during one filming session.[23].- this reads a bit akward as a "he->her->he->her" and could probably change to something like
Harris has said that Cape Town "has these really rich, beautiful settings" that allowed him to craft a "slightly heightened" version of California,[16] and noted that during the shooting of the argument on the beach between Kelly and Yorkie in their wedding dresses, an "incredible mist rolled in from the ocean and it turned into this really beautiful scene", which caused difficulties but led to "some really lovely texture". Mbatha-Raw said that almost every scene was shot at night or dusk, particularly the exterior scenes.[22]
Mbatha-Raw recalled an ostrich walking onto the beach during one filming session.[23]- Could also probably remove this. I'm not sure what it added really, seems a bit trivia (unless there is a significance to it, which isn't explained).
The episode contains hints leading up to the reveal of the twist. A factor considered during the editing process was how overt the hints should be. Annabel Jones says that "there may be visual signifiers that you think were going to work and then didn't, so you need more exposition in the edit". Adjustments were also made using sound design techniques such as sound effects.[11]- seems this paragraph is not related to either "Cast" nor "filming".
San Junipero" is a highly optimistic,[29] emotionally rooted[30] love story and a work of science fiction.- maybe revise so it doesn't sound like this claim came from us (which reads a bit like original research) or is a universal claim, but from the people you are citing so something like "Reviewers have called "San Junipero" a highly optimistic..."
The episode provides an example of bisexual lighting, as colours from the bisexual pride flag are used to represent the sexualities of Kelly and Yorkie.- This is in the flag box and is missing a reference (even if its in the article, the box doesn't have it)
Mbatha-Raw's and Davis's performances were universally praised,[b] even by reviewers who disliked the episode.- are the people quoted later the ones that disliked the episode? It wasn't clear to me (without reading references) who liked their performances but disliked the episode.
@ Gonnym: I think I've addressed all of these points. — Bilorv (c) (talk) 13:21, 13 September 2018 (UTC)
I'll take a pass at this; expect comments by tomorrow. JOE BRO 64 23:31, 16 September 2018 (UTC)
Overall this is a really clean article. Nice work JOE BRO 64 19:59, 17 September 2018 (UTC)
Comment Thanks to a recent edit adding archive links, the citations have become extremely bulky due to their each having three (!) dates—of publication, retrieval and archival. Since WP:CITEWEB suggests retrieval dates are only "required if the publication date is unknown", I believe they can definitely be removed.— indopug ( talk) 06:09, 18 September 2018 (UTC)
Coordinator note - We're getting there, but this needs pushing over the hill or it will have to be archived soon. Since this is the second nomination and some good commentary has been generated, I'll wait a bit. MoS errors are present ("Annabel Jones says that") and the citation issue brought up by Indopug above needs discussion and resolution. I don't see any reason for the citations to be exploded with three different dates each. WP:V should be the driving factor in such decisions, along with readability. -- Laser brain (talk) 13:47, 9 October 2018 (UTC)
Good that it's not been archived. FrB.TG ( talk) 15:45, 10 October 2018 (UTC)
Source review - spotchecks not done
Thanks for the review! I think I've addressed all of your comments. — Bilorv (c) (talk) 16:44, 14 October 2018 (UTC)