The article was not promoted by Graham Colm ( talk) 11:54, 8 August 2014 ( diff).
This article is about a jazz album by Ornette Coleman. I attempted to address the previous FAC's concern about close paraphrasing by soliciting another reviewer ( [1], [2]). I've also cleaned up the references for a consistent citation format/style and copy-edited/rewrote some parts ( [3]). Dan56 ( talk) 01:36, 16 June 2014 (UTC) reply
Overall I find this a well written, comprehensive, well-researched, referenced and structured article worthy of a Featured Article but there are a few (minor) points that may improve it further:
All in all you have my Support DISEman ( talk) 08:08, 22 June 2014 (UTC) reply
Support. Article is well-balanced both in structure and content, sources cited seem reliable and plentiful. Friginator ( talk) 01:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC) reply
Oppose This article, while by no means bad, fails at present to (IMO) maintain good criteria. Quibbles: 1) While the article is indeed comprehensive (it's obvious that fans have poured in a lot of effort) it is arguably excessively so given the minimal notability of its subject (a poor-selling album by a musician with five dozen other works, many of which are demonstrably far more noteworthy (e.g., The Shape of Jazz to Come being inducted into the Library of Congress, etc) yet possessing small article size relative to this one. Featured status is generally granted to well-written articles in topics of widespread interest; 2) no references in the lead; 3) grammar and sentence construction less than optimal (e.g., absence of parenthesizing where appropriate, poor deployment of commas and semi-colons, etc); -- My advice is to tighten up the article to hang onto good status -- and be glad you have that in the first place.-- Froglich ( talk) 07:20, 28 June 2014 (UTC) reply
Subject to these checks, i'm a support on prose, structure, comprehensiveness and referencing. hamiltonstone ( talk) 03:04, 4 July 2014 (UTC) reply
The third and fourth FAC reviews for this article were closed after a reviewer noticed what they perceived to be plagiarism. It is not clear to me that the nominator's attempts to address these accusations are sufficient ( [6], [7]) because the types of close-paraphrasing that caused concern in the third review are quite different from simple lexical substitution. BananaLanguage ( talk) 07:56, 7 July 2014 (UTC) reply
Oppose. I am drawn to oppose this article per GAC Immediate Failure 3: "It contains copyright infringements.": see the discussion in Ref 7 and Ref 17 for an explanation of this conclusion. Furthermore, it does not meet FAC 1c) because refs 10, 17, and 22 are not found in the source text.
I planned to review the four sources marked as (subscription required) but the local deposit library does not have a subscription to back-issues of U.S. newspapers. Instead, I picked six books at random from the sources list and reviewed these. I used the guidelines in WP:PARAPHRASE and WP:COPYVIO while preparing this list. The surrounding source text is included to allow more experience FAC reviewers to make judgements about my interpretations of the source / article texts.
A concerted effort by the nominator to show the article contains appropriately sourced and paraphrased text would help this article to be reconsidered for Feature Article status. As it stands, I have no confidence that the remaining sources have been used without copyright or paraphrase violations.
a, p.313) Tacuma was recruited by Coleman while still in high school, and after his playing on Of Human Feelings he was widely regarded as one of the most distinctive bassists to arrive in jazz since Jaco Pastorius.
Tacuma, who was still in high school when he was enlisted by Coleman,[4]
b, p.313) With his own band largely made up of musicians from his home town of Philadelphia, he retained the complex vertical structures of Prime Time but framed them within commercially accessible melodies and engaging hooks.
He subsequently formed his own group and recorded albums that used Prime Time's complex vertical compositions, but composed them with more commercial hooks and melodic themes.[4]
p170 a: actually on p.152.) In March, 1979 Ornette brought Prime Time - the name he was consistently applying to his band by then - into RCA's New York recording studios to make a direct-to-disc album for Artists House, but mechanical problems with the recording apparatus made the session a waste of time and energy.
In March 1979, Coleman went to RCA Records' New York studio and attempted to produce an album with Prime Time by direct-to-disc recording. However, they encountered mechanical problems with the studio equipment, and their recording was ultimately rejected.
b: actually on p.152.) Ornette wanted to set up his own record company, Phrase Text, named after his music-publishing company, and Mwanga set up a Phrase Text session at CBS Studios, with ninteen-year-old Calvin Weston replacing Ronald Shannon Jackson as Denardo's drum partner.
For the album, Prime Time's original drummer Ronald Shannon Jackson was replaced by Calvin Weston as Denardo Coleman's drum partner.[8]
c, actually on p.153) The drummers continue to accent strong beats and play marching-drum patterns; the two guitars remain background instruments while Ornette's alto solos and Tacuna's busy electric-bass responses are the foreground; if anything, Tacuma is more virtuosic than before, with nonstop lines virtually always in his highest ranges.
Coleman and Tacuma's instrumental responses were played as the foreground to the less prominent guitars.[8]
d, p.152-153) This session went off without any technical difficulties, and only a few weeks later Mwanga was in Japan completing arrangements to issue the album on the Phrase Text label, by Trio Records, whose previous jazz albums included a collection of Ornette Coleman performances in Paris in 1966 and 1971. While in Japan Mwanga also arranged for Ornette to perform Skies of of American with the NHK Symphony Orchestra, Japan's equivalent of the BBC Symphony and French National Radio-Television orchestras. In fact, Mwanga had delivered the record stamper to Trio and production was ready to begin on the album - but "When I came back from Japan, Ornette cancelled the agreements," says Mwanga. With that, Mwanga resigned; he had worked for Ornette for only four months.
A few weeks after the album was recorded, Mwanga went to Japan to complete arrangements for it to be issued as a Phrase Text release by Trio Records, who had previously released a compilation of Coleman's 1966 to 1971 live performances in Paris. He delivered the record stamper to Trio, who were ready to start production. While in Japan, Mwanga also arranged for Coleman to perform his song "Skies of America" with the NHK Symphony Orchestra. However, according to him, Coleman cancelled both deals upon his return from Japan. Mwanga immediately resigned after only less than four months as Coleman's manager.[8]
We recorded all the pieces only once, so all the numbers were first takes. And there was no mixing. It is almost exactly as we played it.
a, b, c: p.67-68) It was as if Coleman was translating the concept of the famous double quartet of Free Jazz to the needs of Funk jazz. Coleman remained in control of the melody line, while Tacuma vacillated between supporting two strata beneath. One comprised a 'melody' support team of guitar and drums, while the other became a totally committed rhythm team, also of guitar and drums. The interaction was constant and, just as Coleman could take directional hints, there were times when it was he who changed tonalities, with the others modulating as required.
According to jazz critic Barry McRae, "it was as if Coleman was translating the concept of the famous double quartet" from his 1961 album Free Jazz to "the needs of funk jazz".[17] ... Coleman played the melody lines and employed two guitarists for contrast, as one part of the band comprised a melody contingent of guitar and drums, and the other guitarist and drummer were committed to a song's rhythm.[17] ... Coleman and Prime Time exchanged directional hints throughout the songs, as one player changed tonality and the others modulated accordingly.[17]
d, p.67) In 1979, he recorded the album, Of Human Feelings, for the Antilles wing of Island Records and it was destined to be his last for some time.
, and Of Human Feelings was released in 1982 on Island's subsidiary jazz label Antilles Records.[17]
Giddins, 1985 p.241) With Of Human Feelings (1979, released 1982), Coleman drew on his rhythm and blues days and, without compromising his own quartertone pitch, his affection for gusty lamentations, and those jarring keys, revived classic structures ("Jump Street" is a blues with a bridge) and countable time.
Coleman also drew on the rhythm and blues he had played early his career and incorporated traditional structures and rhythms. [18]
a, p.143; b, p.143) Nonetheless, a modest commerical breakthrough seemend immiment in 1981, when he signed with Island Recrods and named Stan and Sid Berstein as his managers (the latter a promoter who brough the Beatles to Shea Stadium in 1965).
In 1981, Coleman hired Stan and Sid Bernstein as his managers,[21] who sold the album's recording tapes to Island Records.[22] He signed with the record label that year,[21] and Of Human Feelings was released in 1982 on Island's subsidiary jazz label Antilles Records.[17]
c, p.143; d, p.143) "Nothing is simple for Ornette when it comes to money," says Stan Bernstein. "He made demans that are unrealistic in this business unless you're Michael Jackson". According to Coleman, "my managers sold Of Human Feelings, which was the first digital jazz album recorded in the U.S., for less money than it had cost me to make it, and I never saw a penny of the royalties. Coleman was paid $25,000 for the rights to Of Human Feelings, "not a terrific sum but not a modest sum, either, for a jazz artist," according to Ron Goldstein, who was at that time in charge of Antilles, Island's jazz custom label.
According to Coleman, his managers sold Of Human Feelings for less money than it had cost him to record, and he "never saw a penny of the royalties".[21] Stan Bernstein claimed that Coleman made financial demands that were "unrealistic in this business unless you're Michael Jackson".[21] Coleman was paid $25,000 for the publishing rights to the album, which Antilles label executive Ron Goldstein said was neither a "terrific" nor "modest sum" for a jazz artist.[43]
According to jazz writer Francis Davis, "a modest commercial breakthrough seemed imminent" for Coleman, whose celebrity appeared to be "on the rise again".[23]
p.68 a) Yet, for all its potential commerciality, Prime Time's music made no impact on the American hit parade.
Despite its commercial potential, Of Human Feelings had no success on the American pop charts.[26]
b) Steve Lake suggested (The Wire, September 1985) that 'the 1984 disco-fied version of Dancing In Your Head that appeared on Jamaaladeen Tacuma's Renaissance Man offered a tantalising glimpse into how Ornette might sound if he opted more directly for the funk market'. Of Human Feelings offered only a funk/jazz compromise and, as such, satisfied nobody.
According to Steve Lake of The Wire, the album offered only a "funk/jazz compromise" to consumers and consequently appealed to neither market.[26]
c) Although the Antilles date was to be his last commercial release for six years, Prime Time was working regularly on both sides of the Atlantic.
Coleman did not record another album for six years and instead performed internationally with Prime Time.[26]
Other than that, I have nothing else to add; it is clear you've put in a lot of effort into this article because it is in great shape. I trust that you will handle the alternate text, and my other two suggestions are pretty much a matter of personal preference, so I am happy to give you my support. Great job! WikiRedactor ( talk) 18:59, 7 July 2014 (UTC) reply
Overall, looking very nice :). Just several things:
There's my 2¢. SNUGGUMS ( talk · contribs) 03:36, 8 July 2014 (UTC) reply
A comprehensive media review was last done in the article's second FAC, so I'll do another to see how things stand:
Support on criterion 3, although I'll reiterate that it'd be nice to have definite source of the album cover. Adabow ( talk) 03:27, 12 July 2014 (UTC) reply
I'm running late at the moment but I have read through the article, and it's crisp and incorporates technical terms well. One thing-
Other than that I will support this article, assuming that it will successfully pass a source check. -- WonderBoy1998 ( talk) 07:09, 12 July 2014 (UTC) reply
Comments from blocked editor User:Flow Ridian, sock of User:Jazzerino |
---|
Dan56
asked me to comment here, so I'll make a few observations.
Lead
Background
Recording and composition
Release and promotion
Critical reception
Aftermath and legacy
That's pretty much all I can find. Flow Ridian ( talk) 22:11, 23 July 2014 (UTC) reply
What about, "the poll's creator and supervisor"? Isn't this information available at
Pazz & Jop?
Flow Ridian (
talk)
21:44, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
reply
|
Favor: Hello -- Thanks for inviting me to look over Of Human Feelings. Apologies for the late reply. After reading your article and the many comments, I commend your efforts. You're thorough, patient ... and a good writer.
As a new editor, I learned quite a bit about featured articles. Picked up some new jazz terms and Wikipedia sy nt ax too.
All told, you've made this article more interesting and accessible to new Coleman aficionados - a central goal of Wikipedia, imho.
Kind regards, sojs …talk… 03:32, 8 August 2014 (UTC) reply
Closing note I am not confident that a consensus has been reached on this candidate's fulfilling the FA criteria and I will archive this discussion in a few minutes. To find contraventions on close-paraphrasing at this late stage (fifth FAC) is a grave concern. I would not want to see this article renominated before there is clear evidence that all issues have been resolved and no more come to light. Graham Colm ( talk) 11:54, 8 August 2014 (UTC) reply
The article was not promoted by Graham Colm ( talk) 11:54, 8 August 2014 ( diff).
This article is about a jazz album by Ornette Coleman. I attempted to address the previous FAC's concern about close paraphrasing by soliciting another reviewer ( [1], [2]). I've also cleaned up the references for a consistent citation format/style and copy-edited/rewrote some parts ( [3]). Dan56 ( talk) 01:36, 16 June 2014 (UTC) reply
Overall I find this a well written, comprehensive, well-researched, referenced and structured article worthy of a Featured Article but there are a few (minor) points that may improve it further:
All in all you have my Support DISEman ( talk) 08:08, 22 June 2014 (UTC) reply
Support. Article is well-balanced both in structure and content, sources cited seem reliable and plentiful. Friginator ( talk) 01:29, 24 June 2014 (UTC) reply
Oppose This article, while by no means bad, fails at present to (IMO) maintain good criteria. Quibbles: 1) While the article is indeed comprehensive (it's obvious that fans have poured in a lot of effort) it is arguably excessively so given the minimal notability of its subject (a poor-selling album by a musician with five dozen other works, many of which are demonstrably far more noteworthy (e.g., The Shape of Jazz to Come being inducted into the Library of Congress, etc) yet possessing small article size relative to this one. Featured status is generally granted to well-written articles in topics of widespread interest; 2) no references in the lead; 3) grammar and sentence construction less than optimal (e.g., absence of parenthesizing where appropriate, poor deployment of commas and semi-colons, etc); -- My advice is to tighten up the article to hang onto good status -- and be glad you have that in the first place.-- Froglich ( talk) 07:20, 28 June 2014 (UTC) reply
Subject to these checks, i'm a support on prose, structure, comprehensiveness and referencing. hamiltonstone ( talk) 03:04, 4 July 2014 (UTC) reply
The third and fourth FAC reviews for this article were closed after a reviewer noticed what they perceived to be plagiarism. It is not clear to me that the nominator's attempts to address these accusations are sufficient ( [6], [7]) because the types of close-paraphrasing that caused concern in the third review are quite different from simple lexical substitution. BananaLanguage ( talk) 07:56, 7 July 2014 (UTC) reply
Oppose. I am drawn to oppose this article per GAC Immediate Failure 3: "It contains copyright infringements.": see the discussion in Ref 7 and Ref 17 for an explanation of this conclusion. Furthermore, it does not meet FAC 1c) because refs 10, 17, and 22 are not found in the source text.
I planned to review the four sources marked as (subscription required) but the local deposit library does not have a subscription to back-issues of U.S. newspapers. Instead, I picked six books at random from the sources list and reviewed these. I used the guidelines in WP:PARAPHRASE and WP:COPYVIO while preparing this list. The surrounding source text is included to allow more experience FAC reviewers to make judgements about my interpretations of the source / article texts.
A concerted effort by the nominator to show the article contains appropriately sourced and paraphrased text would help this article to be reconsidered for Feature Article status. As it stands, I have no confidence that the remaining sources have been used without copyright or paraphrase violations.
a, p.313) Tacuma was recruited by Coleman while still in high school, and after his playing on Of Human Feelings he was widely regarded as one of the most distinctive bassists to arrive in jazz since Jaco Pastorius.
Tacuma, who was still in high school when he was enlisted by Coleman,[4]
b, p.313) With his own band largely made up of musicians from his home town of Philadelphia, he retained the complex vertical structures of Prime Time but framed them within commercially accessible melodies and engaging hooks.
He subsequently formed his own group and recorded albums that used Prime Time's complex vertical compositions, but composed them with more commercial hooks and melodic themes.[4]
p170 a: actually on p.152.) In March, 1979 Ornette brought Prime Time - the name he was consistently applying to his band by then - into RCA's New York recording studios to make a direct-to-disc album for Artists House, but mechanical problems with the recording apparatus made the session a waste of time and energy.
In March 1979, Coleman went to RCA Records' New York studio and attempted to produce an album with Prime Time by direct-to-disc recording. However, they encountered mechanical problems with the studio equipment, and their recording was ultimately rejected.
b: actually on p.152.) Ornette wanted to set up his own record company, Phrase Text, named after his music-publishing company, and Mwanga set up a Phrase Text session at CBS Studios, with ninteen-year-old Calvin Weston replacing Ronald Shannon Jackson as Denardo's drum partner.
For the album, Prime Time's original drummer Ronald Shannon Jackson was replaced by Calvin Weston as Denardo Coleman's drum partner.[8]
c, actually on p.153) The drummers continue to accent strong beats and play marching-drum patterns; the two guitars remain background instruments while Ornette's alto solos and Tacuna's busy electric-bass responses are the foreground; if anything, Tacuma is more virtuosic than before, with nonstop lines virtually always in his highest ranges.
Coleman and Tacuma's instrumental responses were played as the foreground to the less prominent guitars.[8]
d, p.152-153) This session went off without any technical difficulties, and only a few weeks later Mwanga was in Japan completing arrangements to issue the album on the Phrase Text label, by Trio Records, whose previous jazz albums included a collection of Ornette Coleman performances in Paris in 1966 and 1971. While in Japan Mwanga also arranged for Ornette to perform Skies of of American with the NHK Symphony Orchestra, Japan's equivalent of the BBC Symphony and French National Radio-Television orchestras. In fact, Mwanga had delivered the record stamper to Trio and production was ready to begin on the album - but "When I came back from Japan, Ornette cancelled the agreements," says Mwanga. With that, Mwanga resigned; he had worked for Ornette for only four months.
A few weeks after the album was recorded, Mwanga went to Japan to complete arrangements for it to be issued as a Phrase Text release by Trio Records, who had previously released a compilation of Coleman's 1966 to 1971 live performances in Paris. He delivered the record stamper to Trio, who were ready to start production. While in Japan, Mwanga also arranged for Coleman to perform his song "Skies of America" with the NHK Symphony Orchestra. However, according to him, Coleman cancelled both deals upon his return from Japan. Mwanga immediately resigned after only less than four months as Coleman's manager.[8]
We recorded all the pieces only once, so all the numbers were first takes. And there was no mixing. It is almost exactly as we played it.
a, b, c: p.67-68) It was as if Coleman was translating the concept of the famous double quartet of Free Jazz to the needs of Funk jazz. Coleman remained in control of the melody line, while Tacuma vacillated between supporting two strata beneath. One comprised a 'melody' support team of guitar and drums, while the other became a totally committed rhythm team, also of guitar and drums. The interaction was constant and, just as Coleman could take directional hints, there were times when it was he who changed tonalities, with the others modulating as required.
According to jazz critic Barry McRae, "it was as if Coleman was translating the concept of the famous double quartet" from his 1961 album Free Jazz to "the needs of funk jazz".[17] ... Coleman played the melody lines and employed two guitarists for contrast, as one part of the band comprised a melody contingent of guitar and drums, and the other guitarist and drummer were committed to a song's rhythm.[17] ... Coleman and Prime Time exchanged directional hints throughout the songs, as one player changed tonality and the others modulated accordingly.[17]
d, p.67) In 1979, he recorded the album, Of Human Feelings, for the Antilles wing of Island Records and it was destined to be his last for some time.
, and Of Human Feelings was released in 1982 on Island's subsidiary jazz label Antilles Records.[17]
Giddins, 1985 p.241) With Of Human Feelings (1979, released 1982), Coleman drew on his rhythm and blues days and, without compromising his own quartertone pitch, his affection for gusty lamentations, and those jarring keys, revived classic structures ("Jump Street" is a blues with a bridge) and countable time.
Coleman also drew on the rhythm and blues he had played early his career and incorporated traditional structures and rhythms. [18]
a, p.143; b, p.143) Nonetheless, a modest commerical breakthrough seemend immiment in 1981, when he signed with Island Recrods and named Stan and Sid Berstein as his managers (the latter a promoter who brough the Beatles to Shea Stadium in 1965).
In 1981, Coleman hired Stan and Sid Bernstein as his managers,[21] who sold the album's recording tapes to Island Records.[22] He signed with the record label that year,[21] and Of Human Feelings was released in 1982 on Island's subsidiary jazz label Antilles Records.[17]
c, p.143; d, p.143) "Nothing is simple for Ornette when it comes to money," says Stan Bernstein. "He made demans that are unrealistic in this business unless you're Michael Jackson". According to Coleman, "my managers sold Of Human Feelings, which was the first digital jazz album recorded in the U.S., for less money than it had cost me to make it, and I never saw a penny of the royalties. Coleman was paid $25,000 for the rights to Of Human Feelings, "not a terrific sum but not a modest sum, either, for a jazz artist," according to Ron Goldstein, who was at that time in charge of Antilles, Island's jazz custom label.
According to Coleman, his managers sold Of Human Feelings for less money than it had cost him to record, and he "never saw a penny of the royalties".[21] Stan Bernstein claimed that Coleman made financial demands that were "unrealistic in this business unless you're Michael Jackson".[21] Coleman was paid $25,000 for the publishing rights to the album, which Antilles label executive Ron Goldstein said was neither a "terrific" nor "modest sum" for a jazz artist.[43]
According to jazz writer Francis Davis, "a modest commercial breakthrough seemed imminent" for Coleman, whose celebrity appeared to be "on the rise again".[23]
p.68 a) Yet, for all its potential commerciality, Prime Time's music made no impact on the American hit parade.
Despite its commercial potential, Of Human Feelings had no success on the American pop charts.[26]
b) Steve Lake suggested (The Wire, September 1985) that 'the 1984 disco-fied version of Dancing In Your Head that appeared on Jamaaladeen Tacuma's Renaissance Man offered a tantalising glimpse into how Ornette might sound if he opted more directly for the funk market'. Of Human Feelings offered only a funk/jazz compromise and, as such, satisfied nobody.
According to Steve Lake of The Wire, the album offered only a "funk/jazz compromise" to consumers and consequently appealed to neither market.[26]
c) Although the Antilles date was to be his last commercial release for six years, Prime Time was working regularly on both sides of the Atlantic.
Coleman did not record another album for six years and instead performed internationally with Prime Time.[26]
Other than that, I have nothing else to add; it is clear you've put in a lot of effort into this article because it is in great shape. I trust that you will handle the alternate text, and my other two suggestions are pretty much a matter of personal preference, so I am happy to give you my support. Great job! WikiRedactor ( talk) 18:59, 7 July 2014 (UTC) reply
Overall, looking very nice :). Just several things:
There's my 2¢. SNUGGUMS ( talk · contribs) 03:36, 8 July 2014 (UTC) reply
A comprehensive media review was last done in the article's second FAC, so I'll do another to see how things stand:
Support on criterion 3, although I'll reiterate that it'd be nice to have definite source of the album cover. Adabow ( talk) 03:27, 12 July 2014 (UTC) reply
I'm running late at the moment but I have read through the article, and it's crisp and incorporates technical terms well. One thing-
Other than that I will support this article, assuming that it will successfully pass a source check. -- WonderBoy1998 ( talk) 07:09, 12 July 2014 (UTC) reply
Comments from blocked editor User:Flow Ridian, sock of User:Jazzerino |
---|
Dan56
asked me to comment here, so I'll make a few observations.
Lead
Background
Recording and composition
Release and promotion
Critical reception
Aftermath and legacy
That's pretty much all I can find. Flow Ridian ( talk) 22:11, 23 July 2014 (UTC) reply
What about, "the poll's creator and supervisor"? Isn't this information available at
Pazz & Jop?
Flow Ridian (
talk)
21:44, 26 July 2014 (UTC)
reply
|
Favor: Hello -- Thanks for inviting me to look over Of Human Feelings. Apologies for the late reply. After reading your article and the many comments, I commend your efforts. You're thorough, patient ... and a good writer.
As a new editor, I learned quite a bit about featured articles. Picked up some new jazz terms and Wikipedia sy nt ax too.
All told, you've made this article more interesting and accessible to new Coleman aficionados - a central goal of Wikipedia, imho.
Kind regards, sojs …talk… 03:32, 8 August 2014 (UTC) reply
Closing note I am not confident that a consensus has been reached on this candidate's fulfilling the FA criteria and I will archive this discussion in a few minutes. To find contraventions on close-paraphrasing at this late stage (fifth FAC) is a grave concern. I would not want to see this article renominated before there is clear evidence that all issues have been resolved and no more come to light. Graham Colm ( talk) 11:54, 8 August 2014 (UTC) reply