Taking the FAC plunge for the first time in 3 years by my measure. This is part of a series of articles I've been working on over the past decade off-and-on related to the Cascades Volcanoes. I recognize it still needs alt text and I'm hoping to get to that ASAP, but I think this is otherwise more or less ready to become an FA. Looking forward to comments to improve it further! ceranthor19:44, 3 November 2022 (UTC)reply
JJE
"moderate climate with wide temperature variations " sounds like a contradiction.
Changed to "subject to Portland's moderate climate with variable temperatures and mild precipitation." I just went by what the source said. ceranthor13:12, 4 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Struggling to find a USGS source. Might email the author and see if she has any idea if they were from USGS or the source is incorrect. ceranthor13:12, 4 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Is it common to list every sensitive species? The first time I looked it over, I thought the language suggested that it wasn't an exhaustive list, but it read like one.
It's what I've done for other volcano FAs. It's hard to find reliable sources describing the wildlife exhaustively, so it's a compromise that I've found works in previous FAs. ceranthor14:33, 14 November 2022 (UTC)reply
That's fair enough. I've been told recently that personal and project standards don't matter, only policies matter, so it's good to see that they do in fact matter. –
Fredddie™23:44, 14 November 2022 (UTC)reply
History
Right away you say indigenous twice in a row, I would replace one of them. Your choice.
More suggesting 50 million instead of 50,000,000 for readability. I suppose 50 million US gallons (190 million L) works. This is not make-or-break. –
Fredddie™23:40, 14 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Why are Mount Scott and Brunner Hill the only ones to have notes in their respective tables?
Those are the only ones that I thought merited having notes. Would it be better to just add footnotes to those two and remove the column? Open to suggestions. ceranthor14:33, 14 November 2022 (UTC)reply
You could write a good April Fool's blurb with a name like that!
They are located in the western portion of the U. S. state of Oregon. We've established the country in the lead but it's reasonable to assume most people know that Oregon is a state so maybe lose that bit to improve flow?
at Larch Mountain,[15] with most vents reaching an elevation of 660 to 980 feet (200 to 300 m) don't use ", with" like that to join two independent facts. You could split the sentence or use a semicolon.
Can we split the geology section up a bit more? There are seven paragraphs, some of them quite chunky, before the first subheading, which makes it look a bit daunting.
encompass a wide area, with Boring Lava deposits averaging As above
(located 20.5 metres (0.0205 km) northeast of Portland I suspect that was supposed to be miles!
Recent research suggests that eruptive activity at the Boring Lava Field began How recent? I wouldn't normally question relative times in an article like this, but the 1990s are mentioned earlier in the paragraph, which is relatively recent by some standards.
extending to its current expansive state about 1 million years agoMOS:NUMERAL isn't entirely clear on this but I'd suggest either "one million" or "1,000,000" to avoid juxtaposition with figures in surrounding sentences.
@
HJ Mitchell: Thanks for your helpful comments. Working on the geology section. I think everything else is fixed. As a reply to the recent research comment, the paper I cite was from 2009, so maybe you suggest replacing with "more recent", or do you think it's fine as is? ceranthor17:11, 22 November 2022 (UTC)reply
File:Boring_lava_allen_map.png: I'm a bit confused by the sourcing here - the original work appears to be from a state rather than federal government body, correct? Also see
MOS:COLOUR.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
15:37, 3 December 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Nikkimaria: I removed the fixed px size, but wouldn't it make more sense to expand the map pixel size since it's not readable at the default? As for that map, the original source is
[2], so I believe the map was created using the information from the Ore Bin article to which that url currently redirects. I'm not sure I follow the last bit; I didn't make the map myself, and the author is deceased now. Are you suggesting that we should replace that map? ceranthor02:49, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
You can scale the map (or any of the images) using |upright=.
So the issue with the licensing is this: the current tagging is based on the image being a US federal government work. However, that source indicates that it is derived from a US state government work (Volcanoes of the Portland Area, Oregon). If the image was, or was a derivative of, a state work, the given tag doesn't apply. So there are three options: determine that it is in fact a original federal work, not a derivative; determine that there is some other reason that the image is PD, and update the tagging to reflect that; or remove/replace the image.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
03:06, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
I've looked up the
original map and the image here is not a derivative work. It's pretty clear the uploader used a different underlying map and different icons than the one displayed by the Oregon agency, even if the information is sourced from the Oregon map. I've pinged them here, we probably need some kind of uploader licence.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
09:38, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
"The area typically does not experience frost, with more than 200 frost-free days annually." This seems a little confusing, as it reads like Portland still has frost for roughly half the year.
There's a lot of history about Portland (first 2 paragraphs in the section) that doesn't seem to relate to the Boring Lava Field. I don't think it needs to be included unless trade/business related things happen because of the Boring Lava Field.
"it marks the deepest train station" Wouldn't it just be easier to say that "it is the deepest..." Same for "Gresham marks one of just a few places..."
"The migration rate for volcanism within the field is an average of 0.37 inches (9.3 mm) ± 0.063 inches (1.6 mm) per year relative to the motion of crustal blocks in the region,[53] using the last 2.7 million years as a starting reference point." It's not really clear what this means. My understanding is that the location of the volcanic activity is changing relative to the location on the plate, but this seems like a pretty small change considering that the volcanism is not centered in a single location. Additionally, there should be an explanation for why this is happening.
The explanation is in the prior sentence, which states, "The uneven distribution of vents within this forearc suggests a local zone of crustal expansion, indicative of northward movement and clockwise rotation of a tectonic microplate that leads to gradual northwest-trending propagation for the field over time." The sentence you highlighted just provides the rate of migration relative to the baseline crustal block motion.
I rewrote these sentences to use less jargon and hopefully be a little more approachable. My version is "The uneven distribution of vents within this forearc suggests a local zone of crustal expansion. Over the last 2.7 million years, the volcanic field has irregularly rotated clockwise and migrated to the northwest at an average rate of 0.37 inches (9.3 mm) ± 0.063 inches (1.6 mm) per year relative to the surrounding crust. This northwest trending is consistent with other faults in the nearby area." I also removed some citations, as I found all of this information on page 1305 of the Fleck 2014 source. Does this work?
Balon Greyjoy (
talk)
13:09, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
I would either explain high-K/low-K, or simplify it with something like potassium-rich.I would also state why it's significant (such as showing that there is lava that is similar to other Cascade lava and lava that is different). A reader not familiar with igneous rocks won't understand the significance of how much sodium and potassium is in these rocks.
I can't access the journal article with the information, but are the tholeiitic lavas similar in composition to lavas from the High Cascades? I think that would help give some context to the reader, as it's not clear why the lava is presumed to be from there.
Balon Greyjoy (
talk)
13:21, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Yes, the journal article says that. I changed to "Given their similar compositions, some of the low-K tholeiite deposits likely originated from vents closer to the High Cascades[...]" - how's that? ceranthor14:24, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
"that the calc-alkaline sources are more refractory." There should be an explanation on what refractory means.
How does the lava being refractory relate to the different compositions? I would change the sentence to say who Shemphert is (something like "a volcanologist at X institution") and then state that they proposed two different mantle sources, as the rest of the paragraph is about the different compositions and what the cause for that may be.
Balon Greyjoy (
talk)
13:25, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Different chemical compounds have different levels of ease of vaporization. Rephrased to "J. M. Shempert, a geologist at Portland State University, proposed that mantle sources for the two different lava types may be different and that the calc-alkaline sources are more refractory." ceranthor14:28, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
"producing steep head scarps with heights of 66 feet (20 m)" 66 feet seems too exact for a large-scale geologic boundary; is that the tallest recorded, the average, or a ballpark figure?
There are very exact distances (20.5 miles) for a summit crater and Bobs Hill and Battleground Lake. I'm assuming both of those large features are bigger than a tenth of a mile, so I think these should lose some significant figures.
The distances are taken directly from the sources, so not sure losing sigfigs will help. I think they're actually relatively loose approximations of distance from Portland, which is the most obvious landmark from the area. ceranthor21:21, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Wouldn't it make more sense to just use 20 miles then? Since neither Portland or these locations are a single point/small area, it's not clear from where these 20.5 mile lines begin and end.
Balon Greyjoy (
talk)
13:14, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
I think that would kind of be original research, though, since the source says 20.5 miles. I'm inclined to keep it as is; I don't think anyone is using this article to determine the exact distance between the two points. ceranthor14:06, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
"Recent research suggests that eruptive activity" Rather than say recent, maybe say what research conducted was (e.g. the type of radiogenic dating used)
"geographically, younger vents and associated deposits lie in the northern portion of the field" Remove "geographically", as the sentence already mentions geographic references.
"to form the eponymous maar volcano" I'm assuming there is a Maar Volcano there that all other maar features are named after? Shouldn't this be capitalized for the proper noun?
"Nonetheless, according to the USGS," I would remove this. "Nonetheless" is a bit of a weasel word and the this makes it seem like the low probability of an eruption is a USGS opinion, not a scientific conclusion.
Is the probability of any future eruption low, or just one in the near future? The article makes it seem like future eruptions are low, but then says they're likely to occur every 15,000 years.
I'm not sure how to phrase this differently. The source states "Since activity started 2.6 million years ago, it is rare that 50,000 years passed without an eruption. However, all existing Boring Volcanic centers are extinct and the probability of an eruption in the Portland/Vancouver metro area is very low." So I think all future eruptions are low, but historically they had been occurring at a frequency such that 50,000 years passing is unusual. Does that help clarify at all? ceranthor21:21, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
What's the information on the field itself not being considered extinct? That source makes it seem like the volcanologists consider the likelihood of future eruptions very low, not just eruptions in the near future. I would remove that last sentence then, since it comes across like casting doubt on their prediction, when it sounds like that is the scientific conclusion by the experts. I would also combine the first two paragraphs and maybe shorten the effects of a possible eruption, as it sounds like they are unlikely and hypothetical.
Balon Greyjoy (
talk)
13:53, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
My understanding of the source text is that the existing vents are extinct, but the magma that formed the field could very well lead to future eruptions. Any future eruptions, however, would not occur in the immediate Portland/Vancouver metropolitan area. Does that make sense? ceranthor14:05, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
I would remove the recreation section; it reads a bit like an advertisement (albeit for a free place) when it includes potential activities and hours of operation. Since this article is about the lava field itself, and not a state park, I don't think it needs to be here.
As above re the history section, I think the recreation provides important context, and presumably the article should act as a resource for human activity in the area as well. I did some copyediting to tone down some of the language re advertisement, though I think offers is fine to use since the only alternative I can think of is "has." I cut out the quote as it did seem a bit crufty/advertisement-y, is it better now? ceranthor21:21, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Hi -- welcome back to FAC. Footnote numbers refer to
this version.
FN 91 has no access date.
Some dates are still in YYYY-MM-DD format.
You have {{citation}} and {{cite}} families mixed; they give inconsistent formats so we need to pick one or the other.
In the past I've used this approach for FAs and hasn't been an issue. I only use it where there's not a clear cite template, and most of these are government publications/reports. Is there a Cite report template that would work here? Happy to use if so! ceranthor02:37, 12 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Missing the publisher parameter for Fleck et al. 2002.
Publisher locations are given in a handful of cases but most are omitted -- they're optional but it should be consistent.
Werner (1991) is a master's thesis -- what makes it a high-quality reliable source? Same question for Swanson (1986).
This was discussed at the peer review. Both have been cited by other academic articles (Swanson 17 times, Werner 4). I think both are sufficiently reliable, but I am open to further discussion. ceranthor02:37, 12 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Swanson is fine per the citations; Werner seems borderline -- can the citations to Werner be used to make a case that the thesis is considered reliable? If not I would suggest cutting it.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
18:03, 12 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Taking the FAC plunge for the first time in 3 years by my measure. This is part of a series of articles I've been working on over the past decade off-and-on related to the Cascades Volcanoes. I recognize it still needs alt text and I'm hoping to get to that ASAP, but I think this is otherwise more or less ready to become an FA. Looking forward to comments to improve it further! ceranthor19:44, 3 November 2022 (UTC)reply
JJE
"moderate climate with wide temperature variations " sounds like a contradiction.
Changed to "subject to Portland's moderate climate with variable temperatures and mild precipitation." I just went by what the source said. ceranthor13:12, 4 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Struggling to find a USGS source. Might email the author and see if she has any idea if they were from USGS or the source is incorrect. ceranthor13:12, 4 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Is it common to list every sensitive species? The first time I looked it over, I thought the language suggested that it wasn't an exhaustive list, but it read like one.
It's what I've done for other volcano FAs. It's hard to find reliable sources describing the wildlife exhaustively, so it's a compromise that I've found works in previous FAs. ceranthor14:33, 14 November 2022 (UTC)reply
That's fair enough. I've been told recently that personal and project standards don't matter, only policies matter, so it's good to see that they do in fact matter. –
Fredddie™23:44, 14 November 2022 (UTC)reply
History
Right away you say indigenous twice in a row, I would replace one of them. Your choice.
More suggesting 50 million instead of 50,000,000 for readability. I suppose 50 million US gallons (190 million L) works. This is not make-or-break. –
Fredddie™23:40, 14 November 2022 (UTC)reply
Why are Mount Scott and Brunner Hill the only ones to have notes in their respective tables?
Those are the only ones that I thought merited having notes. Would it be better to just add footnotes to those two and remove the column? Open to suggestions. ceranthor14:33, 14 November 2022 (UTC)reply
You could write a good April Fool's blurb with a name like that!
They are located in the western portion of the U. S. state of Oregon. We've established the country in the lead but it's reasonable to assume most people know that Oregon is a state so maybe lose that bit to improve flow?
at Larch Mountain,[15] with most vents reaching an elevation of 660 to 980 feet (200 to 300 m) don't use ", with" like that to join two independent facts. You could split the sentence or use a semicolon.
Can we split the geology section up a bit more? There are seven paragraphs, some of them quite chunky, before the first subheading, which makes it look a bit daunting.
encompass a wide area, with Boring Lava deposits averaging As above
(located 20.5 metres (0.0205 km) northeast of Portland I suspect that was supposed to be miles!
Recent research suggests that eruptive activity at the Boring Lava Field began How recent? I wouldn't normally question relative times in an article like this, but the 1990s are mentioned earlier in the paragraph, which is relatively recent by some standards.
extending to its current expansive state about 1 million years agoMOS:NUMERAL isn't entirely clear on this but I'd suggest either "one million" or "1,000,000" to avoid juxtaposition with figures in surrounding sentences.
@
HJ Mitchell: Thanks for your helpful comments. Working on the geology section. I think everything else is fixed. As a reply to the recent research comment, the paper I cite was from 2009, so maybe you suggest replacing with "more recent", or do you think it's fine as is? ceranthor17:11, 22 November 2022 (UTC)reply
File:Boring_lava_allen_map.png: I'm a bit confused by the sourcing here - the original work appears to be from a state rather than federal government body, correct? Also see
MOS:COLOUR.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
15:37, 3 December 2022 (UTC)reply
@
Nikkimaria: I removed the fixed px size, but wouldn't it make more sense to expand the map pixel size since it's not readable at the default? As for that map, the original source is
[2], so I believe the map was created using the information from the Ore Bin article to which that url currently redirects. I'm not sure I follow the last bit; I didn't make the map myself, and the author is deceased now. Are you suggesting that we should replace that map? ceranthor02:49, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
You can scale the map (or any of the images) using |upright=.
So the issue with the licensing is this: the current tagging is based on the image being a US federal government work. However, that source indicates that it is derived from a US state government work (Volcanoes of the Portland Area, Oregon). If the image was, or was a derivative of, a state work, the given tag doesn't apply. So there are three options: determine that it is in fact a original federal work, not a derivative; determine that there is some other reason that the image is PD, and update the tagging to reflect that; or remove/replace the image.
Nikkimaria (
talk)
03:06, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
I've looked up the
original map and the image here is not a derivative work. It's pretty clear the uploader used a different underlying map and different icons than the one displayed by the Oregon agency, even if the information is sourced from the Oregon map. I've pinged them here, we probably need some kind of uploader licence.
Jo-Jo Eumerus (
talk)
09:38, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
"The area typically does not experience frost, with more than 200 frost-free days annually." This seems a little confusing, as it reads like Portland still has frost for roughly half the year.
There's a lot of history about Portland (first 2 paragraphs in the section) that doesn't seem to relate to the Boring Lava Field. I don't think it needs to be included unless trade/business related things happen because of the Boring Lava Field.
"it marks the deepest train station" Wouldn't it just be easier to say that "it is the deepest..." Same for "Gresham marks one of just a few places..."
"The migration rate for volcanism within the field is an average of 0.37 inches (9.3 mm) ± 0.063 inches (1.6 mm) per year relative to the motion of crustal blocks in the region,[53] using the last 2.7 million years as a starting reference point." It's not really clear what this means. My understanding is that the location of the volcanic activity is changing relative to the location on the plate, but this seems like a pretty small change considering that the volcanism is not centered in a single location. Additionally, there should be an explanation for why this is happening.
The explanation is in the prior sentence, which states, "The uneven distribution of vents within this forearc suggests a local zone of crustal expansion, indicative of northward movement and clockwise rotation of a tectonic microplate that leads to gradual northwest-trending propagation for the field over time." The sentence you highlighted just provides the rate of migration relative to the baseline crustal block motion.
I rewrote these sentences to use less jargon and hopefully be a little more approachable. My version is "The uneven distribution of vents within this forearc suggests a local zone of crustal expansion. Over the last 2.7 million years, the volcanic field has irregularly rotated clockwise and migrated to the northwest at an average rate of 0.37 inches (9.3 mm) ± 0.063 inches (1.6 mm) per year relative to the surrounding crust. This northwest trending is consistent with other faults in the nearby area." I also removed some citations, as I found all of this information on page 1305 of the Fleck 2014 source. Does this work?
Balon Greyjoy (
talk)
13:09, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
I would either explain high-K/low-K, or simplify it with something like potassium-rich.I would also state why it's significant (such as showing that there is lava that is similar to other Cascade lava and lava that is different). A reader not familiar with igneous rocks won't understand the significance of how much sodium and potassium is in these rocks.
I can't access the journal article with the information, but are the tholeiitic lavas similar in composition to lavas from the High Cascades? I think that would help give some context to the reader, as it's not clear why the lava is presumed to be from there.
Balon Greyjoy (
talk)
13:21, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Yes, the journal article says that. I changed to "Given their similar compositions, some of the low-K tholeiite deposits likely originated from vents closer to the High Cascades[...]" - how's that? ceranthor14:24, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
"that the calc-alkaline sources are more refractory." There should be an explanation on what refractory means.
How does the lava being refractory relate to the different compositions? I would change the sentence to say who Shemphert is (something like "a volcanologist at X institution") and then state that they proposed two different mantle sources, as the rest of the paragraph is about the different compositions and what the cause for that may be.
Balon Greyjoy (
talk)
13:25, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Different chemical compounds have different levels of ease of vaporization. Rephrased to "J. M. Shempert, a geologist at Portland State University, proposed that mantle sources for the two different lava types may be different and that the calc-alkaline sources are more refractory." ceranthor14:28, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
"producing steep head scarps with heights of 66 feet (20 m)" 66 feet seems too exact for a large-scale geologic boundary; is that the tallest recorded, the average, or a ballpark figure?
There are very exact distances (20.5 miles) for a summit crater and Bobs Hill and Battleground Lake. I'm assuming both of those large features are bigger than a tenth of a mile, so I think these should lose some significant figures.
The distances are taken directly from the sources, so not sure losing sigfigs will help. I think they're actually relatively loose approximations of distance from Portland, which is the most obvious landmark from the area. ceranthor21:21, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Wouldn't it make more sense to just use 20 miles then? Since neither Portland or these locations are a single point/small area, it's not clear from where these 20.5 mile lines begin and end.
Balon Greyjoy (
talk)
13:14, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
I think that would kind of be original research, though, since the source says 20.5 miles. I'm inclined to keep it as is; I don't think anyone is using this article to determine the exact distance between the two points. ceranthor14:06, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
"Recent research suggests that eruptive activity" Rather than say recent, maybe say what research conducted was (e.g. the type of radiogenic dating used)
"geographically, younger vents and associated deposits lie in the northern portion of the field" Remove "geographically", as the sentence already mentions geographic references.
"to form the eponymous maar volcano" I'm assuming there is a Maar Volcano there that all other maar features are named after? Shouldn't this be capitalized for the proper noun?
"Nonetheless, according to the USGS," I would remove this. "Nonetheless" is a bit of a weasel word and the this makes it seem like the low probability of an eruption is a USGS opinion, not a scientific conclusion.
Is the probability of any future eruption low, or just one in the near future? The article makes it seem like future eruptions are low, but then says they're likely to occur every 15,000 years.
I'm not sure how to phrase this differently. The source states "Since activity started 2.6 million years ago, it is rare that 50,000 years passed without an eruption. However, all existing Boring Volcanic centers are extinct and the probability of an eruption in the Portland/Vancouver metro area is very low." So I think all future eruptions are low, but historically they had been occurring at a frequency such that 50,000 years passing is unusual. Does that help clarify at all? ceranthor21:21, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
What's the information on the field itself not being considered extinct? That source makes it seem like the volcanologists consider the likelihood of future eruptions very low, not just eruptions in the near future. I would remove that last sentence then, since it comes across like casting doubt on their prediction, when it sounds like that is the scientific conclusion by the experts. I would also combine the first two paragraphs and maybe shorten the effects of a possible eruption, as it sounds like they are unlikely and hypothetical.
Balon Greyjoy (
talk)
13:53, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
My understanding of the source text is that the existing vents are extinct, but the magma that formed the field could very well lead to future eruptions. Any future eruptions, however, would not occur in the immediate Portland/Vancouver metropolitan area. Does that make sense? ceranthor14:05, 5 December 2022 (UTC)reply
I would remove the recreation section; it reads a bit like an advertisement (albeit for a free place) when it includes potential activities and hours of operation. Since this article is about the lava field itself, and not a state park, I don't think it needs to be here.
As above re the history section, I think the recreation provides important context, and presumably the article should act as a resource for human activity in the area as well. I did some copyediting to tone down some of the language re advertisement, though I think offers is fine to use since the only alternative I can think of is "has." I cut out the quote as it did seem a bit crufty/advertisement-y, is it better now? ceranthor21:21, 4 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Hi -- welcome back to FAC. Footnote numbers refer to
this version.
FN 91 has no access date.
Some dates are still in YYYY-MM-DD format.
You have {{citation}} and {{cite}} families mixed; they give inconsistent formats so we need to pick one or the other.
In the past I've used this approach for FAs and hasn't been an issue. I only use it where there's not a clear cite template, and most of these are government publications/reports. Is there a Cite report template that would work here? Happy to use if so! ceranthor02:37, 12 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Missing the publisher parameter for Fleck et al. 2002.
Publisher locations are given in a handful of cases but most are omitted -- they're optional but it should be consistent.
Werner (1991) is a master's thesis -- what makes it a high-quality reliable source? Same question for Swanson (1986).
This was discussed at the peer review. Both have been cited by other academic articles (Swanson 17 times, Werner 4). I think both are sufficiently reliable, but I am open to further discussion. ceranthor02:37, 12 December 2022 (UTC)reply
Swanson is fine per the citations; Werner seems borderline -- can the citations to Werner be used to make a case that the thesis is considered reliable? If not I would suggest cutting it.
Mike Christie (
talk -
contribs -
library)
18:03, 12 December 2022 (UTC)reply