The article was promoted by Graham Beards via FACBot ( talk) 12:34, 14 January 2015 (UTC) [1]. reply
I'd be surprised if anyone doesn't know what this article is about, based from the name alone, so I'll forego a description. Seppi333 ( Insert 2¢ | Maintained) 00:25, 6 December 2014 (UTC) reply
@ AmericanLemming: I'm renominating this now, though I assume you'll be busy until later in the month, so no worries. I've made this section for you in advance. Seppi333 ( Insert 2¢ | Maintained) 00:25, 6 December 2014 (UTC) reply
American Lemming's comments from peer review/4th FAC
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Lead Just finished reading through this part. It looks well-written, well-organized, and well-sourced. The first paragraph is a bit on the long side, as is the lead as a whole, but I'm not really sure you can cut anything out without losing something important. My four comments/questions are as follows:
I've made two edits to the lead, and I think that will do. The lead is meant to be the most accessible part of the article, and it really isn't the place to be explaining nuances and technicalities. Medical
Sorry for the late follow-up; I've been pretty busy this past week. Contraindications
Side effects
Overdose Update: I've finished going through the prose of the Overdose section, though I do plan to go through it again, as it's hard to catch everything the first time around. One general note: I have some issues with the organization of the section, particularly with the beginning and ending and with the subheadings. See the suggestions below. I would like to log in every day and keep an eye on developments here, but in reality we're probably looking at middle to end of next week or possible next weekend; I'm kind of busy through Wednesday. AmericanLemming ( talk) 09:09, 14 September 2014 (UTC) reply
And now for the prose comments for the rest of the section:
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Resolved comments from this FAC
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Lead through Side effects Reading through these first few sections again I made a few tweaks to the prose, but I have a lot fewer comments than I did the first time around. Rather than 30-40 I've only got five. AmericanLemming ( talk) 03:37, 23 December 2014 (UTC) reply
That is, are “illegal drug use” and “recreational drug use” usually but not always synonymous?
Overdose I just finished going through all of my old comments from this section and looking at your changes and responses. I'm now satisfied with the organization and comprehensiveness of the section, but the prose still needs some tweaking, some of which I can take care of and some of which I'll need to ask you about. I really like the table, by the way; it does a much better job of presenting the same information. Also, I think you should reread the section to make sure I haven't oversimplified anything in my relentless quest to make the article accessible to the general public. AmericanLemming ( talk) 08:41, 25 December 2014 (UTC) reply
Interactions
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@ FAC coordinators: I support promotion of this article on the basis of its prose, comprehensiveness, and intelligibility to the non-expert (that is, people like me). I've only copy-edited the lead and the Uses, Contraindications, Side effects, Overdose, and Interactions sections, but considering I've spent 40-60 hours doing so, the prose in those sections is now flawless and highly intelligible to the general reader. I've spent a lot of time mulling over awkward wordings that aren't necessarily grammatically incorrect and that take a long time to come up with a better way to say them. I've also spent a lot of time familiarizing myself with rather technical medical/biochemical information in order to be able to say things in a clearer and more accessible manner.
At the end of the day, 40-60 hours is a long time to spend on someone else's article, and given that Seppi hasn't edited this page since 14 December and my first comment was on 15 December, he has yet to respond to a single comment I've made the past three weeks. I'm sure he has his reasons: work, school, family obligations, sickness/personal issues, or simply exasperation with the often frustrating process that is FAC. Anyway, I took a look at the peer review, GA review, and all five FA nominations and came to the conclusion that this article was fairly close to FA status by the end of the second FAC (and possibly earlier.) Essentially it failed because Shudde opposed promotion, and Shudde essentially opposed promotion on the basis of prose (and layout, but he was going against WP:MED guidelines on that).
I have significantly improved the prose in the sections the average person is going to read (the average Joe isn't going to care about amphetamine's pharmacology or chemistry). Those two sections are likely of interest only to those who already know a fair amount about medicine/chemistry, so improving the prose for the general reader isn't especially important. My remaining reservations (though "suggestions for further improvement not necessary for FA status" might be a better description) are as follows:
That being said, I'm not really sure that the prose in the second half is really in need of that much improvement, especially given its highly technical nature. The prose in the first half is, in my opinion, impeccable and goes above and beyond the requirement for FA status, if such a thing were possible. (Perhaps I feel that way because I've spent so much time on it.) Reading through all the previous FACs I got the impression that the prose was at a pretty good level already. (John, who is incredibly picky about prose, supported promotion on the basis of prose during FAC #2. Who am I to oppose on the basis of prose, now that I've made it even better?)
Other editors have supported on the basis of the article's medical and biochemical/pharmacological accuracy, quality of sourcing, comprehensiveness, etc., during previous FACs. Perhaps one reason why I'm making the argument for promotion is because I've invested so much of my own time into the article and want that work to be recognized with a shiny gold star. Perhaps another is that I want to see Seppi recognized for all the hard work that he's put into the article. Anyway, sorry for the overly long support with reservations post, but I thought it best to let the FAC coordinators understand exactly why I'm supporting, particularly given that said support might not be entirely objective in nature. AmericanLemming ( talk) 05:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC) reply
@
AmericanLemming: Forgot to ping you when I finished the edits/replies. Btw, do you think I should put in the collapsed addiction-related plasticity table at the bottom of the addiction section? I figure it might add some context for the statement about exercise therapy for amph addiction and amph-sex addiction interactions.
Also, Thank you for spending a huge amount of time working on this article with me. I really appreciate your help and hard work on it!
Seppi333 (
Insert 2¢ |
Maintained)
02:10, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
reply
This line fixes a reference formatting error. [1]
Five more comments
I've looked over both your responses to my comments and all the changes you've made, and I've made a few more tweaks of my own. I've also come up with five more comments from the Lead through the Overdose section. After these are all taken care of we'll just have three sections left in the article to look over.
This is a very good article. Balanced in an area where there's information from numerous domains to compare and weigh. Using every way possible to clarify difficult concepts using notes and tooltips etc.
I will see if any other concerns arise from reviews by others (as I cannot claim much expertise in the subject matter) but I have a low threshold for support provided the primary sources concern is addressed. JFW | T@lk 22:18, 6 December 2014 (UTC) reply
The article was promoted by Graham Beards via FACBot ( talk) 12:34, 14 January 2015 (UTC) [1]. reply
I'd be surprised if anyone doesn't know what this article is about, based from the name alone, so I'll forego a description. Seppi333 ( Insert 2¢ | Maintained) 00:25, 6 December 2014 (UTC) reply
@ AmericanLemming: I'm renominating this now, though I assume you'll be busy until later in the month, so no worries. I've made this section for you in advance. Seppi333 ( Insert 2¢ | Maintained) 00:25, 6 December 2014 (UTC) reply
American Lemming's comments from peer review/4th FAC
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Lead Just finished reading through this part. It looks well-written, well-organized, and well-sourced. The first paragraph is a bit on the long side, as is the lead as a whole, but I'm not really sure you can cut anything out without losing something important. My four comments/questions are as follows:
I've made two edits to the lead, and I think that will do. The lead is meant to be the most accessible part of the article, and it really isn't the place to be explaining nuances and technicalities. Medical
Sorry for the late follow-up; I've been pretty busy this past week. Contraindications
Side effects
Overdose Update: I've finished going through the prose of the Overdose section, though I do plan to go through it again, as it's hard to catch everything the first time around. One general note: I have some issues with the organization of the section, particularly with the beginning and ending and with the subheadings. See the suggestions below. I would like to log in every day and keep an eye on developments here, but in reality we're probably looking at middle to end of next week or possible next weekend; I'm kind of busy through Wednesday. AmericanLemming ( talk) 09:09, 14 September 2014 (UTC) reply
And now for the prose comments for the rest of the section:
|
Resolved comments from this FAC
|
---|
Lead through Side effects Reading through these first few sections again I made a few tweaks to the prose, but I have a lot fewer comments than I did the first time around. Rather than 30-40 I've only got five. AmericanLemming ( talk) 03:37, 23 December 2014 (UTC) reply
That is, are “illegal drug use” and “recreational drug use” usually but not always synonymous?
Overdose I just finished going through all of my old comments from this section and looking at your changes and responses. I'm now satisfied with the organization and comprehensiveness of the section, but the prose still needs some tweaking, some of which I can take care of and some of which I'll need to ask you about. I really like the table, by the way; it does a much better job of presenting the same information. Also, I think you should reread the section to make sure I haven't oversimplified anything in my relentless quest to make the article accessible to the general public. AmericanLemming ( talk) 08:41, 25 December 2014 (UTC) reply
Interactions
|
@ FAC coordinators: I support promotion of this article on the basis of its prose, comprehensiveness, and intelligibility to the non-expert (that is, people like me). I've only copy-edited the lead and the Uses, Contraindications, Side effects, Overdose, and Interactions sections, but considering I've spent 40-60 hours doing so, the prose in those sections is now flawless and highly intelligible to the general reader. I've spent a lot of time mulling over awkward wordings that aren't necessarily grammatically incorrect and that take a long time to come up with a better way to say them. I've also spent a lot of time familiarizing myself with rather technical medical/biochemical information in order to be able to say things in a clearer and more accessible manner.
At the end of the day, 40-60 hours is a long time to spend on someone else's article, and given that Seppi hasn't edited this page since 14 December and my first comment was on 15 December, he has yet to respond to a single comment I've made the past three weeks. I'm sure he has his reasons: work, school, family obligations, sickness/personal issues, or simply exasperation with the often frustrating process that is FAC. Anyway, I took a look at the peer review, GA review, and all five FA nominations and came to the conclusion that this article was fairly close to FA status by the end of the second FAC (and possibly earlier.) Essentially it failed because Shudde opposed promotion, and Shudde essentially opposed promotion on the basis of prose (and layout, but he was going against WP:MED guidelines on that).
I have significantly improved the prose in the sections the average person is going to read (the average Joe isn't going to care about amphetamine's pharmacology or chemistry). Those two sections are likely of interest only to those who already know a fair amount about medicine/chemistry, so improving the prose for the general reader isn't especially important. My remaining reservations (though "suggestions for further improvement not necessary for FA status" might be a better description) are as follows:
That being said, I'm not really sure that the prose in the second half is really in need of that much improvement, especially given its highly technical nature. The prose in the first half is, in my opinion, impeccable and goes above and beyond the requirement for FA status, if such a thing were possible. (Perhaps I feel that way because I've spent so much time on it.) Reading through all the previous FACs I got the impression that the prose was at a pretty good level already. (John, who is incredibly picky about prose, supported promotion on the basis of prose during FAC #2. Who am I to oppose on the basis of prose, now that I've made it even better?)
Other editors have supported on the basis of the article's medical and biochemical/pharmacological accuracy, quality of sourcing, comprehensiveness, etc., during previous FACs. Perhaps one reason why I'm making the argument for promotion is because I've invested so much of my own time into the article and want that work to be recognized with a shiny gold star. Perhaps another is that I want to see Seppi recognized for all the hard work that he's put into the article. Anyway, sorry for the overly long support with reservations post, but I thought it best to let the FAC coordinators understand exactly why I'm supporting, particularly given that said support might not be entirely objective in nature. AmericanLemming ( talk) 05:34, 2 January 2015 (UTC) reply
@
AmericanLemming: Forgot to ping you when I finished the edits/replies. Btw, do you think I should put in the collapsed addiction-related plasticity table at the bottom of the addiction section? I figure it might add some context for the statement about exercise therapy for amph addiction and amph-sex addiction interactions.
Also, Thank you for spending a huge amount of time working on this article with me. I really appreciate your help and hard work on it!
Seppi333 (
Insert 2¢ |
Maintained)
02:10, 8 January 2015 (UTC)
reply
This line fixes a reference formatting error. [1]
Five more comments
I've looked over both your responses to my comments and all the changes you've made, and I've made a few more tweaks of my own. I've also come up with five more comments from the Lead through the Overdose section. After these are all taken care of we'll just have three sections left in the article to look over.
This is a very good article. Balanced in an area where there's information from numerous domains to compare and weigh. Using every way possible to clarify difficult concepts using notes and tooltips etc.
I will see if any other concerns arise from reviews by others (as I cannot claim much expertise in the subject matter) but I have a low threshold for support provided the primary sources concern is addressed. JFW | T@lk 22:18, 6 December 2014 (UTC) reply